Happy Atheist Forum

They don't know the love of Christ. He provides comfort and compassion during your troubled times. He will listen to you, and answer your questions. He is the most loving and compassionate friend I have ever met. When you cry, he cries. When you laugh, he laughs. Don't give up hope just yet, there is so much to learn about God. He is truly amazing. God will watch over you for the rest of your life if you give your heart and soul to him. I guarantee results. I am living proof that God is real, and he does listen to us.

I used to be a hardcore atheist. But no way, not any more. I used to browse atheist internet forums disgracing God. Until God came to me personally, and he made me a believer in him.

God does exist!! Don't deny him another minute, because that last minute may be too late. Accept Jesus Christ today and you will feel his love and compassion radiating from your soul.

Peace

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages50.fotki.com%2Fv1557%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2F1249801289114-vi.gif&hash=cdaad2c724c6848f947c5df003d04e4aa88ecd29)

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd59%2FSkurry%2F0f09e7a5.gif&hash=6112e95733054aa803ba8906c728dd517971420d)

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages39.fotki.com%2Fv1232%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2F1216184739910-vi.gif&hash=4e51efd08708598a749c1e3f70059284047d3b94)
ATTENTION
THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT MENS SHAMPOO

(with respect to Sophus)

I like Fructus, Fruictus.... the green bottle stuff. Although I recently read that you should only wash your hair every few days because the natural oils are good for your hair.

I use L'Oreal Vive Plus for Men. Makes me feel so good I just want to dance.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages49.fotki.com%2Fv1556%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2F1249785484017-vi.gif&hash=8b9e275e1de84327085af5cedf5203d4af0bf600)

QuoteI like Fructus, Fruictus.... the green bottle stuff. Although I recently read that you should only wash your hair every few days because the natural oils are good for your hair.

I've heard that too, but, like brushing my teeth, shampooing my hair is such a habit that it just feels wrong when I haven't done it...

Quote from: "IBelieveInHymn"They don't know the love of Christ. He provides comfort and compassion during your troubled times. He will listen to you, and answer your questions. He is the most loving and compassionate friend I have ever met. When you cry, he cries. When you laugh, he laughs. Don't give up hope just yet, there is so much to learn about God. He is truly amazing. God will watch over you for the rest of your life if you give your heart and soul to him. I guarantee results. I am living proof that God is real, and he does listen to us.

I used to be a hardcore atheist. But no way, not any more. I used to browse atheist internet forums disgracing God. Until God came to me personally, and he made me a believer in him.

God does exist!! Don't deny him another minute, because that last minute may be too late. Accept Jesus Christ today and you will feel his love and compassion radiating from your soul.

Peace

It is against the forum rules to preach...do you have any reason for why anyone should accept the above as true?

Quote from: "IBelieveInHymn"I used to be a hardcore atheist. But no way, not any more. I used to browse atheist internet forums disgracing God. Until God came to me personally, and he made me a believer in him.

Don't lie to me on the internet.  

Quote from: "quizlixx"

Quote from: "IBelieveInHymn"I used to be a hardcore atheist. But no way, not any more. I used to browse atheist internet forums disgracing God. Until God came to me personally, and he made me a believer in him.

Don't lie to me on the internet.  

Have you ever noticed how every single person who prostletizes "used to be an atheist"? It's like they teach them to say that to try and connect with us. Too bad it a very thin premise and easy to see through. Especially with posters like this who don't even understand what atheism is and try to use every falacy about us.

You know I've met dozens of Christians who "used to be an Atheist" but I've never known an Atheist who found faith. What a strange paradox. "Me thinks some bearing of false witness be involved" he said in a poor pirate accent.

Quote from: "Tanker"

Quote from: "quizlixx"

Quote from: "IBelieveInHymn"I used to be a hardcore atheist. But no way, not any more. I used to browse atheist internet forums disgracing God. Until God came to me personally, and he made me a believer in him.

Don't lie to me on the internet.  

Have you ever noticed how every single person who prostletizes "used to be an atheist"? It's like they teach them to say that to try and connect with us. Too bad it a very thin premise and easy to see through. Especially with posters like this who don't even understand what atheism is and try to use every falacy about us.

You know I've met dozens of Christians who "used to be an Atheist" but I've never known an Atheist who found faith. What a strange paradox. "Me thinks some bearing of false witness be involved" he said in a poor pirate accent.

Perhaps they mistakenly thing that atheist = empty vessel, waiting to be filled with religion?

Lying for Jebus seems just as likely though.

Edit: I all fairness though, that arguably is one valid definition as the openness to religion does detract from the initial lack thereof, in the same sense that we are born athiest.

One could say they were an implicit atheist, though this is not exactly "Hard core". I think we have a falsie here.

Also, why should we believe? If it took god coming to you personally (I assume he knocked on your door and showed up, right?) to make you believe, why is he not coming to me? I don't like people who play favorites.

I use God's Grace brand Shampoo.

It makes my scalp feel nice and warm

One could say that I was lost until I found this shampoo.  I take it with me everywhere I go.

Plus, everyone says that my hair radiates love when I've used it.

Garnier Fructis (sp?) for me

Quote from: "SSY"One could say they were an implicit atheist, though this is not exactly "Hard core". I think we have a falsie here.

Also, why should we believe? If it took god coming to you personally (I assume he knocked on your door and showed up, right?) to make you believe, why is he not coming to me? I don't like people who play favorites.

I assume this is aimed at me?

Please do not misunderstand me, all I am suggesting is that the default state (which we all begin with) is atheism.

Whilst I recognise this to be about as weak as atheism gets, it still fulfills the criteria of an absense of belief in god(s). I do however have a hard time taking such people seriously as atheists, if the only reason they qualify is that they have not been indoctrinated into any religion yet. Someone who has considered the subject rationally and come to the conclusion that there is likely no god(s) certainly comes across as more of a "proper" atheist.

This idea is open to reevaluation but I'm not really proposing anything all that out there anyway.

I wish they still made that "Beer" shampoo. That was cool!

Quote from: "McQ"I wish they still made that "Beer" shampoo. That was cool!

mwahaha we have it here!!

To be honest about it, I have read a lot of harsh unkind words from atheists against God and theists, and nothing harsh and unkind from theists against atheists.

On the other hand I have only read these unkind words from atheists in web forums and blogs and also books written by atheists against God and theists.

Books such as the ones by Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris and also their emulators, they are replete with unkind words against God and theists.

Again to be honest about it, from the unkind words of atheists against God and theists, I have to say that atheists hold God and theists to be all evil and must be extirpated from mankind.

In brief, atheists hate God and theists.


Now, even though I have not read unkind words from theists against atheists, I have read about that poll in the US, which reveals how the vast majority of Americans regard atheists, namely, as the most distrusted minority in their country.

So I suppose theists also hold atheists to be all evil and must be extirpated from mankind.


What about a contest between atheists and theists, for each side to use all the possibilities available to tell all mankind, namely, from atheists to tell mankind why God and theists are all evil for mankind and therefore must be extirpated for the good of mankind, and similarly for theists to tell the whole mankind that atheists are all evil for mankind and must be extirpated.


What do you think, everyone here of whatever worldviews, who will convince mankind more, atheists or theists?



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"To be honest about it, I have read a lot of harsh unkind words from atheists against God and theists, and nothing harsh and unkind from theists against atheists.

If you have read or heard nothing harsh or unkind from theists against atheists, then you haven't really looked into it much.

I believe it's unkind to tell me that I'm going to burn for eternity.  While I may not believe in hell, they obviously do... and they don't hesitate to tell me that I'll burn a firey death for blaspheming god's name merely by being an atheist.

I've been flipped off for having an evolvefish on my car... a nonverbal symbol of my believe in evolution.  Flipped off, told to go to hell, and mooned (on the freeway, no less).

And these are the more tame events IN PERSON... online, it's even worse.  I used to venture to theist forums, secular forums, and other belief websites to debate and discuss... not demean or insult.  And a lot of what is directed toward me is not something I'd like to repeat.

So... which came first?  The harsh and unkind words from atheists about theists or the harsh and unkind words from theists about atheists?  I'd posit that it's the later because they have been a vocal majority for much longer than we've been a marginalized, now-vocal minority, and they're threatened by our newfound voice.  Their way of dealing with this threat is to lash out with vile words and scenarios based on their holy book.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Again to be honest about it, from the unkind words of atheists against God and theists, I have to say that atheists hold God and theists to be all evil and must be extirpated from mankind.

In brief, atheists hate God and theists.


Yrreg

You have been repetedly corrected on this point. Atheists DON'T hate god. You cannot hate what you don't believe in. Why do you keep repeating this even though you have been corrected? Do you hate unicorns, or Zeus, or Santa, or Xenu? I would guess not because you don't believe in any of those thing, well we feel the same way about all gods, we cant hate what, to us, is non-existant. Are you being intentionally obtuse or just willfully ignorant?

I can't speak for all atheists but I for one don't hate theists for being theists. There are a couple individuals I hate who also happen to be theists but that is not the cause. Also hate is an extremely powerfull word, there are infact only 2 people I hate and that is because they have wronged me sevearly. There are people I dislike but again not because of their religious view but because they are assholes. You can't say how MILLIONS of people think, so don't.

Quote from: "Yrreg"To be honest about it, I have read a lot of harsh unkind words from atheists against God and theists, and nothing harsh and unkind from theists against atheists.

Well, there isn't a single atheist author, comedian or film director, who hasn't received death threads from theists. In some cases these threads are real, like the murder of the film director Theo van Gogh. Apart from that there are numerous followers of Jesus Christ, who are extremely hostile towards atheists. We are portrayed as devil worshipers, the anti-christs, we will burn in hell forever etc. etc.

Quote from: "McQ"I wish they still made that "Beer" shampoo. That was cool!

what?

Quote from: "Yrreg"To be honest about it, I have read... nothing harsh and unkind from theists against atheists.

You don't read much, do ya?
 

Just remember not to trust us
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmatadornetwork.cachefly.net%2Fbravenewtraveler.com%2Fdocs%2F%2Fwp-content%2Fimages%2Fposts%2F20090601-gun.jpg&hash=a08388ce2d490dd5cddcb12f4c749053e5369a35)

QuoteOn the other hand I have only read these unkind words from atheists in web forums and blogs and also books written by atheists against God and theists.

Books such as the ones by Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris and also their emulators, they are replete with unkind words against God and theists.

I have difficulty taking you seriously...

QuoteIn brief, atheists hate God and theists.

(emphasis added)

Here we go again :rolleyes:

You're kinda obvious, btw. You need to brush up on your skills, Mr Baits.

Quote from: "MariaEvri"

Quote from: "McQ"I wish they still made that "Beer" shampoo. That was cool!

mwahaha we have it here!!

You are soooooo lucky! I'm jealous.


Of course, my head is shaved, so I guess I'm not missing out on anything except the great taste.  

Quote from: "jbeukema"

Quote from: "McQ"I wish they still made that "Beer" shampoo. That was cool!

what?

When threads get like this one - you know: without purpose or which are pointless, or trollish, or spammish, or anything inane - then we change them to talk about shampoo.

Refreshing, I think.  

I finally washed my hair with God's Grace shampoo today.

I feel truly clean for the first time in a while.  It just goes to show that, without God's Grace, we are all tainted.

However, the hair is a bit dry now, so it doesn't pull together as a whole and just keeps falling down as individual strands.  It's getting in my eyes, so it's hard for me to see.


Since I'm blinded by God's Grace, check out this cool tutorial on tying neku tai (http://www.more-tex.com/howto.html)s

Quote from: "Yrreg"To be honest about it, I have read a lot of harsh unkind words from atheists against God and theists, and nothing harsh and unkind from theists against atheists.

I recently had a friend told he would lose his job if he participated in Camp Quest (a non-religious camp associated with atheists), I know of other people who have lost their jobs or their clients just because someone found out they were associated with freethought/atheist groups...don't tell me theists never treat atheists unkindly.

Here's just one (very recent) example of a theist being unkind towards atheists:  http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 6dccf.html (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-dreher_0816edi.State.Edition1.286dccf.html)  In this example, the theist didn't even bother to research the freethought groups he was ranting against before writing his opinion piece.

Some, maybe even the majority, theists are kind (or at least tolerant) towards atheists, but it is ignorant to claim that they all are.  And those who are unkind sure are loud..just like the atheists who are unkind tend to be loud.

I use troll-away shampoo. So far, it isn't working, does great things for the hair though.

Acts of piety such as trolling an atheist forum are just a strong indication of doubt. No one with strong faith would need to overcompensate like that. Our friend, IBelieveInHymn, is likely a closed agnostic. I feel sympathy for him, because a lot of atheists including myself were once there. It's a difficult place to find yourself, and even more difficult to find your way out of. Best of luck, IBelieveInHymn.

Quote from: "Will"Acts of piety such as trolling an atheist forum are just a strong indication of doubt. No one with strong faith would need to overcompensate like that. Our friend, IBelieveInHymn, is likely a closed agnostic. I feel sympathy for him, because a lot of atheists including myself were once there. It's a difficult place to find yourself, and even more difficult to find your way out of. Best of luck, IBelieveInHymn.

Ibeliveinhymn has the same ip as psalm23. While it doesn't diffintivly make this a sock puppet they at the very least live in the same building. Kinda sad really.

Quote from: "Tanker"

Quote from: "Will"Acts of piety such as trolling an atheist forum are just a strong indication of doubt. No one with strong faith would need to overcompensate like that. Our friend, IBelieveInHymn, is likely a closed agnostic. I feel sympathy for him, because a lot of atheists including myself were once there. It's a difficult place to find yourself, and even more difficult to find your way out of. Best of luck, IBelieveInHymn.

Ibeliveinhymn has the same ip as psalm23. While it doesn't diffintivly make this a sock puppet they at the very least live in the same building. Kinda sad really.

I see these things a mile away, hence my dismissive nature.  :blink:

Jesus said ;

Quote"Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor."

This means no lying. I feel so bad for theists, at least this one, he is going to hell  

Save me a seat.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Re: I truly feel bad for atheists.
by Yrreg » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:28 am

To be honest about it, I have read a lot of harsh unkind words from atheists against God and theists, and nothing harsh and unkind from theists against atheists.

On the other hand I have only read these unkind words from atheists in web forums and blogs and also books written by atheists against God and theists.

Books such as the ones by Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris and also their emulators, they are replete with unkind words against God and theists.

Again to be honest about it, from the unkind words of atheists against God and theists, I have to say that atheists hold God and theists to be all evil and must be extirpated from mankind.

In brief, atheists hate God and theists.


Now, even though I have not read unkind words from theists against atheists, I have read about that poll in the US, which reveals how the vast majority of Americans regard atheists, namely, as the most distrusted minority in their country.

So I suppose theists also hold atheists to be all evil and must be extirpated from mankind.


What about a contest between atheists and theists, for each side to use all the possibilities available to tell all mankind, namely, from atheists to tell mankind why God and theists are all evil for mankind and therefore must be extirpated for the good of mankind, and similarly for theists to tell the whole mankind that atheists are all evil for mankind and must be extirpated.


What do you think, everyone here of whatever worldviews, who will convince mankind more, atheists or theists?



Yrreg

What about a contest between atheists and theists, for each side to use all the possibilities available to tell all mankind, namely, from atheists to tell mankind why God and theists are all evil for mankind and therefore must be extirpated for the good of mankind, and similarly for theists to tell the whole mankind that atheists are all evil for mankind and must be extirpated.


What do you think, everyone here of whatever worldviews, who will convince mankind more, atheists or theists?

I am still asking:

What do you think, everyone here of whatever worldviews, who will convince mankind more, atheists or theists?

Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"

What about a contest between atheists and theists, for each side to use all the possibilities available to tell all mankind, namely, from atheists to tell mankind why God and theists are all evil for mankind and therefore must be extirpated for the good of mankind, and similarly for theists to tell the whole mankind that atheists are all evil for mankind and must be extirpated.


What do you think, everyone here of whatever worldviews, who will convince mankind more, atheists or theists?

I am still asking:

What do you think, everyone here of whatever worldviews, who will convince mankind more, atheists or theists?

Yrreg

Theists have been doing this for, oh, I dunno, all of human history. They've won so far because they can justify killing those who disagree by saying God demands it.

Dead men tell no tales and history is written by those who are left.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Theists have been doing this for, oh, I dunno, all of human history. They've won so far because they can justify killing those who disagree by saying God demands it.

Dead men tell no tales and history is written by those who are left.

Well, that is your pure and to my obervation overly drastic opinion.

But you do say: "oh, I dunno," and that is pertinent to the thread I am hosting in this forum on:

What do atheists claim to know nothing about? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3732&start=60)[/list]



Still can you think of a better informed view about whather theists have won over mankind all the time by killing people off who choose not to accept God and become like themselves theists?



Yrreg

Before anything else, I am not American, but I am interested in events in the USA as a student of human behaviors.

------------------

It seems that the mutual recriminations between atheists and theists predominantly represented by Christians are getting more and more shrill in the US, and I think it could get violent.

Consider the following confrontations:

Imagine no religion vs Why do atheists hate America

http://www.ingodwetrustusa.org/atheists.html (http://www.ingodwetrustusa.org/atheists.html)

Don’t believe in God ads in busses.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=6966203 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=6966203)
[/list]


So, you atheists insist that it is your right to free speech that you put an ad in busses telling people not to believe in God.

And Christians put an ad in busses and everywhere they can put up any free or paid for notice that atheists hate America, and justify it by their right to free speech.

Can you now if you have any sense of what is conducive to peace and order among fellow humans, can you now see where you are heading into with that kind of an ad in the exercise of free speech?

And where are Christians heading into, with the same kinds of ads?

Yes, of course there is free speech, but over and above free speech is speech that is conducive to mutual acceptance, harmony, peace, and helpfulness, instead of hatred.


I suggest that cooler heads in the USA choose by a kind of popular consensus wise men from among atheists and wise men from among theists in particular Christians: to find ways and means for atheists and theists to practice free speech in regard to God or no God, without resorting to exacerbating speech and much less deeds.



What do you members of this forum say? Is that possible?

I submit it is possible if people are truly inured to the idea and habit of keeping to civility even in the exchange of thoughts and attachments which are diametrically contradictory, like God and no God.



Yrreg

There is nothing we can say that will truly make you understand our POV.  Nothing.  While some of us have lived in your shoes, you have no intention of living in ours.  Why does OUR putting something on a bus automatically cause a problem, but a Christ-centered ad is not at all a problem?

Why is it assumed that I hate America because I refuse to invoke the name of a deity that has no evidence of existing when pledging allegiance to my country?  Especially when I know that phrase was added during a war and for a very silly reason?  I prefer the pledge in the manner in which it was originally written.... by a minister who never wanted God to be added, much less specifically America.

Your questions have been answered over and over again.  YOu seem to think you're painting atheists into a corner, but it just won't happen.

No... the competing billboards are not conducive to peace and order... but neither is being denigrated by the majority for hundreds of years.  I know I'm hated merely for saying I don't believe there is a god... HATED and distrusted.  Wouldn't that make you want to fight back, especially when those who are saying the mean things continue to moan about how persecuted they are?

Quote from: "Yrreg"Before anything else, I am not American, but I am interested in events in the USA as a student of human behaviors.

------------------

It seems that the mutual recriminations between atheists and theists predominantly represented by Christians are getting more and more shrill in the US, and I think it could get violent.

This is an international forum. I'm not an American either. What astounds me that American Christians are more angry towards atheists that in other parts of the world. I can therefore accept the fact that American atheists are more upset about "their" Christians than for example here in Western Europe. Our problem is not so much with Christians, but with Muslim fundamentalists, who want to impose their religion and traditions upon us. From my point of view there is barely any difference between a Christian-, Jewish-, Hindu or Muslim fundamentalist. They are equally evil.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Consider the following confrontations:

Imagine no religion vs Why do atheists hate America

http://www.ingodwetrustusa.org/atheists.html (http://www.ingodwetrustusa.org/atheists.html)

Don’t believe in God ads in busses.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=6966203 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=6966203)
[/list]

Do you really take that crap seriously? Anyone who doesn't believe in God, is Anti-American. Fuck off, those people who think that way are bigots, stupid idiots and diluted by their silly believes. America was stolen from the Indians by the Europeans. Many people were killed during this colonization process. That is something not to be proud of. We also learn from American history that their forefathers (the Puritans) came to America for religious freedom and in the process immediately started to prosecute and kill other Christian groups. Not to mention of course the wonderful witch hunts in Salem, the Christian approval of slavery and the bigitory Christian hate against black people, that was state-sponsored in the American Bible Belt until the late sixties. Maybe that is their idea of the Christian traditions that they want to save?

What make you believe that an American atheist doesn't love his own country or cannot be a patriot?  Just because he doesn't buy the idea that there is a supernatural imaginary being somewhere? That idea is just as silly as claiming that someone is not a patriotic Scandinavian, because he doesn't believe in Thor.

Quote from: "Yrreg"So, you atheists insist that it is your right to free speech that you put an ad in busses telling people not to believe in God.

And Christians put an ad in busses and everywhere they can put up any free or paid for notice that atheists hate America, and justify it by their right to free speech.

You've got it wrong there. These "atheist" slogans on the buses, don't tell people not to believe any more. They are not attacking God or Christians. These slogans are extremely considerate and non offensive towards theists. The target group are atheists, who are afraid to come out of the closet. There is no intention to convert Christians to become atheists. The Christian slogans however are, as you already seen for yourself, full of hate and anger towards atheists. If Jesus was still alive today, I'm pretty sure that he would be disgusted by that behavior of his followers. Hate, anger and violence is a sin!

Quote from: "Yrreg"Can you now if you have any sense of what is conducive to peace and order among fellow humans, can you now see where you are heading into with that kind of an ad in the exercise of free speech?

And where are Christians heading into, with the same kinds of ads?

The way I see, the Christians want us to "shut up", while the atheists want to let the world known that they exist and that they want to express their thoughts and feelings. So basically theists are leading the world to a situation where freedom of their (own) religion is more important than freedom of speech. Where that leads to we can clearly see in theocratic states like Iran. Democracy will be thrown out of the window and the thought police will control everything that you say and do.

The fight against atheism has grown heavily out of proportions, thanks to ultra conservative theists. These theists shout very loud, but the question is whether the normal theist, who lives next door, truly feel that those extreme fundamental believes match their own. To be honest, I don't believe that is the case. I'm pretty sure that the majority of theists in the world want this fundamentalism to stop. They want to live just as much in peace and don't worry that they are killed for their believes, as atheists do.  

Quote from: "Yrreg"Yes, of course there is free speech, but over and above free speech is speech that is conducive to mutual acceptance, harmony, peace, and helpfulness, instead of hatred.

Without freedom of speech the world would be a very sad place indeed. Freedom of speech also includes that people don't have to agree with the ideas of others. That is natural and cannot be avoided. In any case, religion should not dictate what people are allowed to say. That is in direct violation with basic human rights.

Quote from: "Yrreg"I suggest that cooler heads in the USA choose by a kind of popular consensus wise men from among atheists and wise men from among theists in particular Christians: to find ways and means for atheists and theists to practice free speech in regard to God or no God, without resorting to exacerbating speech and much less deeds.

What do you members of this forum say? Is that possible?

I think that this is a bad idea. First of all, American Christians don't "own" the Christian God (they think they do, but that is another silly story). Second, you cannot regulate freedom of speech. Either you have it, or you don't. Any steps to regulate freedom of speech for the sake of religion (or other world views) can only lead to misery. Freedom of speech is much more important than freedom of religion. Not having freedom of speech, will also lead to the end of freedom of religion. You can already see it happening in Europe, where Muslim fundamentalists are slowly taking over the society and no-one is allowed to say anything against it. If you oppose it then you are labeled as an intolerant racist.

In order to live in peace and harmony, it is more important that the world gets rid of the ideas that my God is better than yours, you are bad because you don't believe in my God, you must be tolerant because I have crazy believes than whether of not a bus shows a slogan that reads "Don't believe in God? You are not alone.".

It won't read our replies

Is there any point in replying?

Okay, may I just ask atheists what they want to see in the USA?

1. The killing of people who believe in God?

2. The destruction of all structures indicative of belief in God?

3. The burning of all printed matters and deletion of all internet materials indicative of belief in God?

Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, may I just ask atheists what they want to see in the USA?

1. The killing of people who believe in God?

2. The destruction of all structures indicative of belief in God?

3. The burning of all printed matters and deletion of all internet materials indicative of belief in God?

Yrreg

Still going on about this? Atheists don't hate god or religion. We just don't want others to force thier beliefs on us. It has become more and more aparnt over the last few days that you belive every lie and stereotype about Atheits there is. We don't hate god, we have a MUCH lower crime rate then our theist counter parts, we don't seek to destroy any knowlede or burn any books including religious ones, a building is just a building to us, we don't eat babies, we don't worship satan (we don't believe in him either), we aren't generally angry people, we aren't atheists just so we can sin, we aren't persecuting anyone we are being persecuted but you have systematicly ignore all evidence you have been provided, we aren't immoral people for the most part in fact most atheists are more moral then most theists, We dont seek to destroy religion, only ignorance and intolerace for the most part. Most of these are generalisations or have qualifiers becasue the ONLY thing we all have in common is a disbelief in god.


You sir seem to be very ignorant and have no interest in changing that ignorance despite coming to the sorce and being corrected by it. Why come here and ask questions if you won't believe the answers or even accept their validity.

You are just a troll who wants to be heard but not listen. I am done with you, you can only bang your head against a brick wall for so long before you realise it's too dense to make a dent it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, may I just ask atheists what they want to see in the USA?

1. The killing of people who believe in God?

2. The destruction of all structures indicative of belief in God?

3. The burning of all printed matters and deletion of all internet materials indicative of belief in God?

Yrreg

I believe I JUST answered you in the other post about this.

"You sir seem to be very ignorant and have no interest in changing that ignorance despite coming to the sorce and being corrected by it. Why come here and ask questions if you won't believe the answers or even accept their validity.

You are just a troll who wants to be heard but not listen."

And I just posted something similar to this prior to reading it.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, may I just ask atheists what they want to see in the USA?

1. The killing of people who believe in God?

2. The destruction of all structures indicative of belief in God?

3. The burning of all printed matters and deletion of all internet materials indicative of belief in God?

Yrreg

Wow. Just wow.

This reminds me of a Family Guy bit:

QuoteLawyer: Mr Griffin, which of the following two phrases best describes Brian Griffin: Problem Drinker or African-American Haberdasher?
Peter: Uh, do I-I guess problem drinker, but that's uh-
Lawyer: Thank-you. Now: Sexual deviant or magic picture that if you stare at it long enough, you see something?
Peter: Well, sexual deviant, but that other one's not even, eh-
Lawyer: Thank-you.

Seriously? Seriously?

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, may I just ask atheists what they want to see in the USA?

1. The killing of people who believe in God?

2. The destruction of all structures indicative of belief in God?

3. The burning of all printed matters and deletion of all internet materials indicative of belief in God?

Yrreg

<sigh>  I just don't understand what kind of pleasure you derive from asking asinine questions like this.  You MUST know that these questions are counterproductive to this discussion, don't you?

What we want is for you to keep your beliefs to yourself, not try to convert every other living being to your beliefs, and to keep your beliefs out of the schools and government.  You can have your beliefs.  You can have your religious buildings.  You can have your printed matters and internet materials.  Just stop trying to make it the global religion.  That's not right and it's not fair to the rest of the belief systems out there.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Okay, may I just ask atheists what they want to see in the USA?

1. The killing of people who believe in God?

2. The destruction of all structures indicative of belief in God?

3. The burning of all printed matters and deletion of all internet materials indicative of belief in God?

Yrreg

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fz.hubpages.com%2Fu%2F420653_f260.jpg&hash=03372de8791939c843c27bea10f0e7a350bf1da5)(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.othersteve.com%2Fimages%2Ftroll.jpg&hash=b6a5ce7b4d5d2dd9cce550a3469205a5d9c69205)
Even your username says, "Troll."

Yrreg!  Yrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegggg!!!!

Yrreg there is soooooooooo much factually wrong with what you say it is staggering.  Your mind is filled with so much religious dogma that is has blinded you from reason and critical thinking and those same religious convictions have made you divisive.  You are the type of person who goes to atheist sites, muslim sites, hindu sites, and every other website that doesn't 100% agree with your dogmatic world view and you just troll.  Do you have nothing better to do?  Or is your life so pathetic that the only thing you can do all day is repeat lies and hate speeches directed at a group of people who don't share your religious convictions?  Get a girlfriend ... you need to get laid bad.  If Jesus were alive today he would bitch slap you for using his name so you can express your hate.

Besides don't you know anything, The Flying Spaghetti monster made your god with the perception of being the creator of all things.  He will share his truth to you only if you accept him into your heart.  And when you die you will join him and become a meatball on him and will forever be at his side.  The Flying Spaghetti Monster is known to all and you know him deep down in your heart.  I used to be an A-Flying Spaghetti Monsterist too, but I realized I was angry at him just like you are.  But I realize now I just wanted to sin and deny his noodley goodness but I know everyone believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster whether they want to admit it to themselves or not.  Repent and go spread his good word for if you do you will be rewarded with his sauce in noodle heaven for all time.

There is obviously and conspicuously a conflict in the US between atheists and theists, predominantly represented by Christians.

You deny that?

Good that so far it is a conflict in words, as for example with words in public notices; but unless this word conflict is resolved to the satisfaction of both sides, things can get violent.

Please keep your accusation that I am a troll here out of this discussion.


Important is that people with eyes to see and ears to hear realize what is going on, namely, a conflict that is escalating between atheists and theists represented predominantly by Christians, and these people interested in keeping peace and order in society exert their efforts to resolve the conflict by peaceful ways and means.

And government people in the US should ex officio involve themselves in the quest for peaceful ways and means to resolve the conflict.
 



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"Please keep your accusation that I am a troll here out of this discussion.

Then don't ask blatantly troll-like questions.

Example:  "Why do atheists hate America?"
or, as you said,
"Do you want to kill all theists, or would you prefer to burn the scriptures and outlaw religion?"

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"

Quote from: "Yrreg"Please keep your accusation that I am a troll here out of this discussion.

Then don't ask blatantly troll-like questions.

Example:  "Why do atheists hate America?"
or, as you said,
"Do you want to kill all theists, or would you prefer to burn the scriptures and outlaw religion?"

It is a troll. I say poke it with a shitty stick until it stops trolling, or at least until it starts answering all our most pertinent questions.

 

I have come to conclusion, that classing himself as a "rational theist" is in fact, the pinnacle of irony so far reached by humanity. Congratulation to you sir.

Quote from: "Yrreg"There is obviously and conspicuously a conflict in the US between atheists and theists, predominantly represented by Christians.

You deny that?

Good that so far it is a conflict in words, as for example with words in public notices; but unless this word conflict is resolved to the satisfaction of both sides, things can get violent.

Please keep your accusation that I am a troll here out of this discussion.


Important is that people with eyes to see and ears to hear realize what is going on, namely, a conflict that is escalating between atheists and theists represented predominantly by Christians, and these people interested in keeping peace and order in society exert their efforts to resolve the conflict by peaceful ways and means.

And government people in the US should ex officio involve themselves in the quest for peaceful ways and means to resolve the conflict.
 



Yrreg

Yes, I deny there is a conflict between atheists and theists.  Come live here for a little bit.  There is a battle for basic human rights and the side prodominately against basic human rights happens to be the fundamentalists and the side who is in favor happens to be lead by a few atheistic organizations.  The fundamentalists want to vote away basic human rights and replace it with dogma and the bible.  They want to remove the teaching of evolution for intelligent design and trade knowledge for willing ignorance.  The battle is between rationality and superstition and the undisputed champion of superstition is religion and the voice of reason just so happens to be atheists with some liberal theists in the mix.

If you would quit making blatant troll posts then we would quit accusing you of trolling.

Now if we are talking about peace religion claims they are all about peace.  Also when they go around shooting abortion doctors, blowing up clinic, defacing signs that disagree with their opinions, and get a boner over telling people that they will burn alive forever and spend eternity in pain then they are not a religion of peace.  They act like they are and when stuff like this happen they try to cop out by saying oh those people aren't true Christians they only sacrificed everything they had for their view on god (and/or Jesus), not a true Christian.  If they were truly a religion of peace then they would sit down at a table and say we disagree with your opinion how can we meet halfway here.  They don't we do and they say there is no compromise we are right you are wrong your evidence is wrong and I hope you get tortured forever for thinking differently than us.  They only want to compromise when they are at very bad disadvantage such as when there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary of what they are spouting that they want to compromise to have their view shown.  Then when we don't agree because they want to teach lies as the truth they say we are persecuting them and they want to have a vote and let the majority decide what is true.  Truth doesn't work like that, the majority doesn't decide the truth.  We've operated like that for more than 1700 years and it doesn't work.  If they truly were a religion of peace and truth then they would agree with the truth and revise their ideas (as a work in progress), they don't (at least not the staggering majority).  The majority say the truth was inspired by barbarians who believed slavery was okay and that people who don't share your views must be killed.  And those are the people who we should be like and get our morals from.

They have used and continue to use their superstition to discriminate, terrorize, bully, and lie to our communities.  I could care less what these people believe as long as they don't try to legislate their beliefs on everyone else.  They do, our politicians have to answer to the religious right of the country and they pander to their beliefs so that they can be reelected.  We have had enough but we are not going to burn bibles and discriminate against them.  We never have and we wont sink to their level.  You hear about book burnings what comes to mind?  Religion burning books.  You hear about abortion clinic bombings and the assassination of abortion doctors what comes to mind?  Religion.  Hell one of the last abortion doctors was executed in his own church.  95% of people in our prisons are Christian which is disproportionately greater than Christians in our general population.  Atheists are disproportionately fewer in prison then in our general population.  Why?  Because religion is not about peace its about control.  If you go out and rape and kill 5 little girls its okay your god in his infinite mercy will forgive you for raping and killing 5 little girls and you will still go to heaven.  All you have to do in return is give them your unconditional support and that is blatantly obvious.  Besides who doesn't agree with their church on 99% of matters?  That number can probably be safely upped to 99.9%.

The absolute scariest thing in MY country is that 1/3rd of our population claim they are born again Christians.  Meaning they take the word of the bible literally.  When they become the majority we will cease being a democracy and we will become a theocracy.  That is what the founding fathers of this country feared the most, thats why they advocated a wall of separation between church and state.  We are fighting to stop ignorance and superstition and keep our democracy.  For the day it becomes a Christian theocracy then the world is fucked (i'm saying that because we ARE a superpower).  Take a look at other theocracies, and imagine Iran with enough military and nuclear weapons to destroy the world 100 times over.  That is the future of our country if superstition and religious dogma isn't stopped.  There is no religion of peace they are all religions of control and that makes it particular difficult to be peaceful with them.  They don't want equal rights, they don't want shared time in classrooms, they want absolute 100% control and they will resort to any tactic to get it.

I am thinking of really thoughtful and well-intentioned people among atheists and theists, to work together to resolve the conflict between atheists and theists predominantly represented by Christians.

But specially government people to undertake measures to defuse the conflicting postures and gestures between atheists and theists, for the sake of peace, order, and safety and security for everyone, in particular the protagonists of this conflict, but also even more importantly for everyone not wanting to get actively involved in the conflict, even though they don't believe in God or they believe in God.


Now, this is my idea.

Let us sit back, all of us, atheists and theists, and consider that it is a game, the conflict between atheists and theists, and use our brain cells to figure out what kind of a game or contest (in place of the word conflict, let us use the word contest) atheists and theists want to play.

First, the way I see it, they want to show each other that they from one side are the rational camp, and the other camp non-rational at least or at worst irrational.

So, the contest is who have more and better reasons, for atheists to be atheists or for theists to be theists (predominantly represented by Christians -- henceforth abbreviated as prbc).

Atheists here, What do you say about my idea?

If it is all right with you, atheists, as also with theists, our next task is to choose mutually acceptable judges to decide from listening to both camps thus to determine who have more and better reasons: atheists to be atheists or theists prbc to be theists.

Think about that, instead of putting up ads about "not believing in God" from the side of atheists and "atheists hate America" from the side of theists.



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"Think about that, instead of putting up ads about "not believing in God" from the side of atheists and "atheists hate America" from the side of theists.

The two are not comparable. More comparable statements would be "I do not believe in God" and "I believe in God".

Your suggestion leads to the imbalance (that already exists in some places) that theists can publicly declare their belief but atheists cannot. How is this fair? How does one even declare which side they are on to participate in your "game"?

I am still waiting for anyone here to take up my idea of a contest to be presided by mutually acceptable persons to be judges on which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.

In the meantime may I just react to the number of posts given over to shampoo from the part of atheists here?

Quote*I have noticed time and again that it is part of the discussion methodology of atheists, they regularly resort to frivolity, thinking that in this manner they are being smart, but they are actually evading the issues.



The thing is to ask them what is the ultimate premise of your being an atheist, i.e., one who denies the existence of God or who lacks belief in God.



They will resort now to their lack also of belief in Thor, etc., and also in Santa, etc., and the flying spaghetti monster, etc.



When anyone with any exposure to English knows what is meant by God, but they just want to bring in frivolous characters or obsolete characters, to muddle up the issue.

Ah yes, they will tell you that for them God is no different from Santa, and Thor, and the flying spaghetti monster, and the celestial teapot, because they are all bereft of evidence.



And that is where they show themselves to base their pseudo arguments on the premise that what they maintain to be bereft of evidence is equivalent to no evidence for other people who do have evidence but which they will stubbornly deny to be acceptable and sufficient evidence.

So, their number one premise in exchange of thoughts on God or no God is their insistence that there is no evidence, not to themselves that is.



Ask them whether they then have for the very first explanation for everything that now exists is matter in randomness, they will say that they don't know, and no one can know for sure.



That is their refuge in ignorance.

No, they will not accept the common conclusion of physicists about the Big Bang to be the beginning of the physical universe, insisting that for them it is pure speculation.



Best not to exchange thoughts with them, just point out their wrong premises which give them a pseudo excuse to conclude to their denial of God or as they like to evasively put it, their lack of belief in god(s).



The study of atheists should be their psychology of why they proclaim themselves atheists, not what are their cognitive grounds for being atheists.*

[/list]

Yes, I am firmly of the conviction that we must really get together because we are all fellow human beings here, atheists and theists, to set up a grand international debate to be presided by mutually acceptable judges, to decide which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.

Otherwise we are just wasting the time of readers here and our own resources to no useful purpose for mankind at large -- except and this is a losing proposition, to satisfy our respective pet peeve.



Yrreg

*If you read the above text in another forum, it is also from me.

SHAMPOO TIME! please let it be shampoo time. I think this post has more then earned a shampoo discussion.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Yes, I am firmly of the conviction that we must really get together because we are all fellow human beings here, atheists and theists, to set up a grand international debate to be presided by mutually acceptable judges, to decide which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.

So, you think what, that the matter of whether God exists can be decided my committee?

I do hope you will be inviting members of every other religion on Earth as well, as their opinions are just as valid as that of a Christian. And yes, that does include Pastafarians and Jedi. Should be quite an eclectic gathering.

Edit: Just realised, we should also invite a Dark Lord of the Sith to provide a dissenting opinion to the Jedi. I say we get this guy to come along:

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.flickr.com%2F6%2F9958184_1d3029f0e7_m.jpg&hash=00bd51508c306efc0d3c699131c16a8f0593f4c1)

Not sure if it would create a conflict of interests that he also represents the Catholics though.  

Will you be susceptible to the idea as I have described it, or you want to only pose objections and nothing else?

So that we will miss altogether working on the idea and thereby missing on the at least possibility of establishing peace and harmony between atheists and theists, by finding out who or which side has more and better reasons for being atheists or being theists.

Because if it should turn out that one side has less of reasons and and not as good reasons, then that is a great ground why they should be more reasonable and thereby adopt a more reasonable position.


Is that bad or unacceptable to you, because you don't think that it is or any use, in your own view?

Well, in which case you don't have to concern yourself with the idea as I have described in my message above.

And you can just let people who are interested occupy themselves with the idea, and you just leave us alone to pursue our objective of bringing about peace and harmony between atheists and theists, to the best of our intentions and our resources.



Yrreg

ergerg
erg
erg
erg
erg
er
ge
rg
erg
er
ge
rg
erg
erg

Now, we have to first set up a panel of judges acceptable to both atheists and theists who will determine by listening to both sides which camp, atheists or theists, have more and better reasons in their respective position of being atheists or theists predominantly represented by Christians.

I suggest that we both look for the most relevant government office in the USA which can be impartial, to choose together people there who will be guided solely by logic to judge which camp, atheists or theists, have more and better reasons to be atheists or theists.

Or people in the academic sectors of unimpeachable reputation for impartiality on the one hand and mastery of logic on the other?


What do you say?




Yrreg

I was stupid enough to give a very long reply to your questions in this thread, which you ignored. I'm not going to make the same mistake again. Sorry, but I've got better things to do, like washing my hair.

Yrreg, you have ignored the few responses you've gotten.  It's as if you are conducting a conversation with yourself.  YOu have consistently refused to reply to ANYONE who answers your questions.  We can remove all of the posts on this thread by everyone else and it would read the same on your side.  So why should we bother?

There is no way a contest between these two sides will solve anything.  Of course, by our saying it's not possible, that just leaves you to say we won't cooperate, which is not true.

You're lucky at this point that anyone is even bothering to respond here.

Yrreg i'm not going to give you a long response its a waste of energy.  You are ignoring any point that contradicts your world views and either repeating what you say or moving onto another topic.  You are a fucking moron for thinking that the truth of anything can be decided by majority vote instead of determined by testable and indipendently verifiable evidence.  Let all the atheists on this thread vote on whether or not you have a brain.  I vote no.  If the majority of us agree does that mean you don't have a brain? Lets keep a running tab everyone.

Does Yrreg have a brain?
Yes / No
0 / 1

Quote from: "jcpopm"A contest eh?

I haven't played dodgeball in ages... can it be an epic contest of dodgeball between atheists and theists?

If so, I'm in.

P.S. If you are resorting to contests as a way to "prove" that you are right and we are wrong...I think you are proving our point.

I would recommend against playing dodgeball with the Jedi.

Quote from: "SSY"I have come to conclusion, that classing himself as a "rational theist" is in fact, the pinnacle of irony so far reached by humanity. Congratulation to you sir.

I do love your barbed wit.  :hail:  

So, no atheist here is interested in any suggestions that atheists and theists get together to choose some really impartial and most learned men in logic to judge between atheists and theists as to which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.


Suppose you now sum up your reasons against, in a few statements, like enumerating them as 1. 2. 3. 4. etc.

That will be a clear and definite explanation for your opposition to my suggestion.



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"So, no atheist here is interested in any suggestions that atheists and theists get together to choose some really impartial and most learned men in logic to judge between atheists and theists as to which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.


Suppose you now sum up your reasons against, in a few statements, like enumerating them as 1. 2. 3. 4. etc.

That will be a clear and definite explanation for your opposition to my suggestion.



Yrreg

1)It's pointless.
2)It's pointless.
3)It's pointless.
4)It's pointless.

Quote from: "Yrreg"So, no atheist here is interested in any suggestions that atheists and theists get together to choose some really impartial and most learned men in logic to judge between atheists and theists as to which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.

I have a suggestion. How about you first get together with Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Hinus, Pastafarians, Jedi, Invisible Pink Unicorn believers, Pagans, Pantheists, Deists and representative of all the other religions. Once your impartial and learned men have settled on which is the right religion, come back to us and we will discuss whether it is worthy of our consideration.

Quote from: "Yrreg"So, no atheist here is interested in any suggestions that atheists and theists get together to choose some really impartial and most learned men in logic to judge between atheists and theists as to which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.


Suppose you now sum up your reasons against, in a few statements, like enumerating them as 1. 2. 3. 4. etc.

That will be a clear and definite explanation for your opposition to my suggestion.



Yrreg

1. When dealing with theists like evangelical Christians, a dialogue like you are suggesting cannot exist. It is in their very nature, the rulebook by which they live, that they must convert non-believers.
2. How do you define impartial? Who would that possibly be? It couldn't be an American, and Americans wouldn't let foreigners decide domestic policy. Maybe a computer? Who writes the program?
3. You can't make an argument like you're suggesting. It doesn't work because you're arguing for two different sets of desires. It's akin to arguing between which is better to watch, a touching drama or an educational documentary. Arguments can be made for both sides, the main difference being that the drama is fiction while the documentary is non-fiction. The argument between theists and atheists is no different.
4. I'm very willing to sit down with theists (prbc, to use your term) and figure out how they can leave atheists, non-believers, and those from other religions the hell alone and stop trying to turn their views into our laws. I'd also be willing to figure out how they can stop using the name of their god as justification for intolerance, violence, and the retardation of science, including but not limited to stem cell research that could be used to fight cancers and illnesses like the ones they so fervently pray against.

Does that clearly and definitely explain the opposition to your suggestion?

curiousityandthecat oh no.  Thats not good enough for him.  Logical arguments don't work against people like him/her/wtf ever.  This person expects us to stop thinking when he/she/it says, "Jebus loves you how can you be mad at him?"  And we are supposed to drop on our knees and say OMFG JEBUS ROXXORZ YOU ARE RIGHT THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE ABSOLUTE ERROR OF MY WAYS!!!!11111  I DONT CARE THAT YOU NEVER SHOWED EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS BECAUSE I'M NO LONGER A THINKING PERSON BECAUSE OF YOU PRAISE JEBUS' NAME AHMEN.  For those of you whose first language isn't english thats absolute 100% total sarcasm.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"curiousityandthecat oh no.  Thats not good enough for him.  Logical arguments don't work against people like him/her/wtf ever.  This person expects us to stop thinking when he/she/it says, "Jebus loves you how can you be mad at him?"  And we are supposed to drop on our knees and say OMFG JEBUS ROXXORZ YOU ARE RIGHT THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE ABSOLUTE ERROR OF MY WAYS!!!!11111  I DONT CARE THAT YOU NEVER SHOWED EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS BECAUSE I'M NO LONGER A THINKING PERSON BECAUSE OF YOU PRAISE JEBUS' NAME AHMEN.  For those of you whose first language isn't english thats absolute 100% total sarcasm.

I know I'm just throwing pearls to swine, but at least he can't say "none of you has answered my question though you have consistently claimed all my inquiries have been responded to" or something like that.  

No need to bring in harsh unkind words, but of course you will deny that you are into harsh unkind words, that is to be expected since you are always into denial.

Perhaps by way of humor atheists are denialists.


Okay, one of you suggests that he can get together to talk in private and on a personal level with me about how to resolve conflicts between theists prbc* and atheists.

I like that idea, but others here are again into denial, that it is useless and they go into harsh and unkind words again.

Here is the post of curiosityandthecat:

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:40 pm

Quote from: "Yrreg"So, no atheist here is interested in any suggestions that atheists and theists get together to choose some really impartial and most learned men in logic to judge between atheists and theists as to which side has more and better reasons to be atheists or to be theists.


Suppose you now sum up your reasons against, in a few statements, like enumerating them as 1. 2. 3. 4. etc.

That will be a clear and definite explanation for your opposition to my suggestion.

1. When dealing with theists like evangelical Christians, a dialogue like you are suggesting cannot exist. It is in their very nature, the rulebook by which they live, that they must convert non-believers.
2. How do you define impartial? Who would that possibly be? It couldn't be an American, and Americans wouldn't let foreigners decide domestic policy. Maybe a computer? Who writes the program?
3. You can't make an argument like you're suggesting. It doesn't work because you're arguing for two different sets of desires. It's akin to arguing between which is better to watch, a touching drama or an educational documentary. Arguments can be made for both sides, the main difference being that the drama is fiction while the documentary is non-fiction. The argument between theists and atheists is no different.
4. I'm very willing to sit down with theists (prbc, to use your term) and figure out how they can leave atheists, non-believers, and those from other religions the hell alone and stop trying to turn their views into our laws. I'd also be willing to figure out how they can stop using the name of their god as justification for intolerance, violence, and the retardation of science, including but not limited to stem cell research that could be used to fight cancers and illnesses like the ones they so fervently pray against.

Does that clearly and definitely explain the opposition to your suggestion?

4. I'm very willing to sit down with theists (prbc, to use your term) and figure out how they can leave atheists, non-believers, and those from other religions the hell alone and stop trying to turn their views into our laws. I'd also be willing to figure out how they can stop using the name of their god as justification for intolerance, violence, and the retardation of science, including but not limited to stem cell research that could be used to fight cancers and illnesses like the ones they so fervently pray against. -- curiosityandthecat

Thanks, curiosityandthecat, at least you are curious if nothing else; can't say the same about a lot of or almost all atheists, they are rather if I may use the word or term closed-minded.

By way of humor that should get their goat up again, why do you atheists have to be so cantankerous?

Ah yes, you will say the same about theists prbc.*

And that is why we should really get together to thrash out our mutual cantankerousness, because it is not good for both atheists and theists, I submit it is not mentally and emotionally healthy and it is socially disruptive if nothing else.

Okay, let's get started, curiosityandthecat, shall we?

4. I'm very willing to sit down with theists (prbc, to use your term) and figure out how they can leave atheists, non-believers, and those from other religions the hell alone and stop trying to turn their views into our laws. I'd also be willing to figure out how they can stop using the name of their god as justification for intolerance, violence, and the retardation of science, including but not limited to stem cell research that could be used to fight cancers and illnesses like the ones they so fervently pray against. -- curiosityandthecat

There are several grievances in the text above from atheists against theists.

1. Theists' views are made into laws binding also on atheists.

2. Using God's name to justify their (theists')


a. intolerance,

b. violence,

c. retardation of science, for examples:


stem cell research that could be used


aa. to fight cancers and

bb. illnesses like the ones they so fervently pray against.

Let's go to #1 grievance, do you have any specific law in mind which is due to or founded on a theists'* view?



Yrreg

*prbc = predominantly represented by Christians.[/list]

Quote from: "Yrreg"

*prbc = predominantly represented by Christians.[/list]

I expect this will be another of my posts you ignore but why is this? By what right do Christians speak for everyone else in the world of religion? I thought you wanted impartial, unbiased people to decide this difficult issue.

And no, an argument from popularity ain't gonna cut it. Christianity has as much evidentiary support as does the idea that you can see the future in chicken entrails.

Let's be logically systematic here.


See the post of curiosityandthecat's post detailing grievances of atheists against theists, which I have reproduced and laid out more in order for easy reading in my immediately previous post here.

Please start with the grievance about why there are laws which represent theists' views.

Now, tell me what law you have in mind in particular which represents the view of theists but also binding on atheists as well.




Yrreg

"Yrreg"..."Yrreg"...is that something Nordic?

Quote from: "Brizz""Yrreg"..."Yrreg"...is that something Nordic?

sounds very trollish to my ear

I like the irony of Yrreg's posts.  He wants us to focus on an issue he has determined is relevant while disregarding all the issues that counter his points.  Focus Focus little atheists i'm talking here.  BTW I do use harsh words and I've been restraining myself from using more.  Your attitude is condensending your ideas are small minded and you ignore almost everything the people here have thrown back at you.  You call atheists "deniers" which i'm pretty sure you are making a reference to the old canard, "all atheist believe in god they just want to sin" or whatever variation it has become now.  You say we aren't curious people because we don't share your belief in something you can't prove.  Most atheists are atheists because they looked for the truth and realized, through study and learning, that the theistic gods are self contradictory and very implausible.  Yrreg YOU are the one who isn't curious about the world, YOU are the one who accepts absurdities and then tries to chastise for people for not agreeing with you, YOU are the one who IGNORES evidence to the contrary and just takes it on faith, and YOU are the one who is stopping us from having an intelligent conversation with you.

Lets get rid of the bullshit pretenses, and have a conversation that will actually go somewhere.  As long as you don't troll I (and i'm going to go out on a limb and say most of us here) don't have a problem having a conversation with you.

Yrreg why do you believe there is a god?  Why should we believe in your god?  Why is your particular view of religion "right" compared to other opposing views (Islam, Judaism, Hinduism)?  And what evidence do you have to support these beliefs?  I hope thats not too hard to answer.

Quote from: "Yrreg"Let's go to #1 grievance, do you have any specific law in mind which is due to or founded on a theists'* view?

Gerry, I've got real research to do. I can't spend all my time doing yours for you. I and some others here have humored you long enough. If you want to know this information, the onus of responsibility rests firmly in your lap, not on those of random strangers on the internet. If you are so interested in this topic but are willing to let a bunch of forum users tell you what you should know, you're either academically forfeit or intellectually bankrupt.

Quote from: "Brizz""Yrreg"..."Yrreg"...is that something Nordic?

It's Gerry backwards... convenient.

I am leaving this thread, but it is not my thread, namely, I did not start it.


Why? Because it has become unproductive for readers.


I will start a new thread of my own, on how theists can learn from atheists how to revise their concept of God.




Yrreg

Oh.

So Yrreg, once you got your wish of open questions that you could answer to start a debate you left the thread, to start one that is equally redundant? I think that's rather telling of your intentions. You have no desire for an open debate, whenever someone has posed an interesting point of view or open question for you to answer, you've ignored them and talked about not being posed any interesting points or being asked any open questions. Yet you call us the deniers?

Quote from: "Arctonyx"So Yrreg, once you got your wish of open questions that you could answer to start a debate you left the thread, to start one that is equally redundant? I think that's rather telling of your intentions. You have no desire for an open debate, whenever someone has posed an interesting point of view or open question for you to answer, you've ignored them and talked about not being posed any interesting points or being asked any open questions. Yet you call us the deniers?

Not really that I am no longer interested in the topic of the thread here, but I realize that people are not disposed to be receptive to an idea which I believe to be good for everyone, like getting an impartial panel to judge who are more logical, atheists or theists.

This is not my thread, but I introduced a deviation with my suggestion as I said of an impartial board of judges to decide who have more and better reasons to be atheists or theists.

If you still want me to reply to any specific point I brought up and you or others here reacted to, please let me know.

I left this happy atheists' forum for some time, but I am here again, and you might know why I was away.

No, I don't like debate, but I welcome cordial exchange of views, at least to finally determine where both sides have come to an impasse, and then find out mutually accepted ways and means to still work together and like each other notwithstanding the impasse.



Yrreg

Quote from: "Yrreg"If you still want me to reply to any specific point I brought up and you or others here reacted to, please let me know.

OK then, I have a couple of specific points that you have been dodging I would like addressed, please.

1) How do you suppose we find "impartial" judges? Surely the only even remotely impartial people on this subject are agnostics and even then I'm not sure.

2) By what right do you declare Christians the primarly representatives of theism? (Hint: Popularity is not enough, you must demonstrate that they are more correct in their beliefs than the others.)

Quote from: "skurry"I like Fructus, Fruictus.... the green bottle stuff. Although I recently read that you should only wash your hair every few days because the natural oils are good for your hair.

I used to use that, but after I switched to my fauxhawk, and subsequently mohawk phase, I used the dandruff shampoo, since the scalp is more visible. But from what I remember, that Fructus really takes the cake. And that VO5 conditioner. I agree with the OP on the "Peace" part, though.

hehe I spent a good 30 seconds ing at curio's first responce.

Quote from: "Karras"1) How do you suppose we find "impartial" judges?

Now that it has come to this, I suppose we have no choice.

We must find Mr. Spock.

Come on guys, Yrreg has stopped preaching and wants to have some type of contest in which we figure out which side of the theist/atheist debate has the advantage.  

Here is the contest I propose.

We think of something only God can control and can't be faked.  How about the weather?  Yes that will do.  Now, all the theists will get together and pray to the deity of their choice that some extraordinary weather situation will occur. (something that won't cause too much havoc)  Heres an example; They will pray for God to make it snow 1/2 inch in Miami, FL on August 15, 2010.  (snow making machines don't count.) There, theists have almost a year to appeal to their God(s).  Plenty of time for God to prepare.  

Atheists do nothing.

We wait for Aug. 15.  If it snows in Miami, theists win, if not, atheists do.  

Ready, GO!

Quote from: "Lea"Come on guys, Yrreg has stopped preaching and wants to have some type of contest in which we figure out which side of the theist/atheist debate has the advantage.  

Here is the contest I propose.

We think of something only God can control and can't be faked.  How about the weather?  Yes that will do.  Now, all the theists will get together and pray to the deity of their choice that some extraordinary weather situation will occur. (something that won't cause too much havoc)  Heres an example; They will pray for God to make it snow 1/2 inch in Miami, FL on August 15, 2010.  (snow making machines don't count.) There, theists have almost a year to appeal to their God(s).  Plenty of time for God to prepare.  

Atheists do nothing.

We wait for Aug. 15.  If it snows in Miami, theists win, if not, atheists do.  

Ready, GO!

:D

Quote from: "Reginus"Since when does theism require the belief that God gives a damn about people in Miami?  

lol  lol

I think the word you are looking for is deism  

Quote from: "LoneMateria"

Quote from: "Reginus"lol  lol

I think the word you are looking for is deism  lol Hmm perhaps I should change my question up a little bit. Since when does theism require the belief that God makes choices based on the quantity of prayers given to him by the people he created, despite his infinite knowledge?

Quote from: "Reginus"lol Hmm perhaps I should change my question up a little bit. Since when does theism require the belief that God makes choices based on the quantity of prayers given to him by the people he created, despite his infinite knowledge?

Thats better

So when you cry, Jesus comes visits you and you see him with your own eyes cry with you?
I have a hard time thinking you were an atheist, at least how I like to think it, likes to look at the evidence for any claims. They like to apply critical thinking skills to not only religion, but most other things.

Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. Where is your evidence of a God? The Bible? I hope not because the Bible is the book of fairy tales and contradictions that most religious people (at least that I know) just pick and choose which passage makes sense and which doesn't to them.

Quote from: "Munchkin Goddess"Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. Where is your evidence of a God? The Bible? I hope not because the Bible is the book of fairy tales and contradictions that most religious people (at least that I know) just pick and choose which passage makes sense and which doesn't to them.

A couple starter books for a quick summary:
-Mere Christianity (http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926) by C.S. Lewis
-Letters from a Skeptic (http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Skeptic-Wrestles-Questions-Christianity/dp/1564762440) by Greg Boyd

Mere Christianity is a classic which focuses on the argument from morality, and portrays a general overview of the Christian faith, while Letters from a Skeptic answers a multitude of objections from atheists and agnostics, ranging from "why would an all loving god send people to hell?" to "why has the church done so much harm for so long?", and also includes some material about the evidence for the historical accuracy of the Gospels.

By the way, I'm fairly sure the opener was a troll.

Quote from: "Reginus"

Quote from: "Munchkin Goddess"Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. Where is your evidence of a God? The Bible? I hope not because the Bible is the book of fairy tales and contradictions that most religious people (at least that I know) just pick and choose which passage makes sense and which doesn't to them.

A couple starter books for a quick summary:
-Mere Christianity (http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926) by C.S. Lewis
-Letters from a Skeptic (http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Skeptic-Wrestles-Questions-Christianity/dp/1564762440) by Greg Boyd

Mere Christianity is a classic which focuses on the argument from morality, and portrays a general overview of the Christian faith, while Letters from a Skeptic answers a multitude of objections from atheists and agnostics, ranging from "why would an all loving god send people to hell?" to "why has the church done so much harm for so long?", and also includes some material about the evidence for the historical accuracy of the Gospels.

Since I've no intention of reading either, could you post actual evidence? I'm capable of representing my worldview without linking you to books.

Quote from: "Apotheosis"Since I've no intention of reading either, could you post actual evidence? I'm capable of representing my worldview without linking you to books.

hell no. You're making the assumption that I have 25 hours in my day to debate.

On another note, yes, I'm starting to work on a summary of Lewis's morality argument with some other additions.

Quote from: "Reginus"

Quote from: "Apotheosis"Since I've no intention of reading either, could you post actual evidence? I'm capable of representing my worldview without linking you to books.

:)  

Also, I think a summary of Lewis' morality argument would be very interesting. I liked his argument in certain ways, although truthfully, he lost me with the part about a controlling power outside of the universe that can't show itself to us inside the universe as a factual or tangible thing. I always thought and still do think, that that is a copout. I respect the amount of deep thinking that the man did though. Just by writing about it, he makes people think hard about things still.

Quote from: "Reginus"You're making the assumption that I have 25 hours in my day to debate.

Thirty minutes or less a day would satisfy me. I know I wouldn't commit more time than that to a debate with you, nothing against you, personally.

Quote from: "Reginus"lol hell no.
On another note, yes, I'm starting to work on a summary of Lewis's morality argument with some other additions.

Mixed messages.    I maintain that there exists no evidence for any deity, but I'll hear any persuasian to the contrary, if it's not in the form of an advert for a book.

Quote from: "Apotheosis"Thirty minutes or less a day would satisfy me. I know I wouldn't commit more time than that to a debate with you, nothing against you, personally..

Eh, sorry bud, but I spend that much time already debating with Mr. LoneMateria on the New Testament. Maybe on the weekends.

Quote from: "McQ"I have to give you points for your reply.

What's the U.S. dollar exchange rate?  

I'm an Atheist.  And no believer in a 'God', has EVER given me a rational reason, as to why they are certain that a 'God' exists.  The number one reason that I'm an Atheist, is the proof of evolution (creationism has
NEVER been proven).  The other reason I'm an Atheist, is that Patriarchal religion (and a believe that a 'God' is a male being), has been used to oppress women and people of color for centuries, and still is. My third reason for being an Atheist, is the wretched state of the world.  There are innocent children everywhere that are abused, tortured, starving, etc., as well as other miserable human events like poverty, war, and many other injustices.  Could a truly loving 'God', stand by and let these awful things happen? I think not!  And what about other atrocities that have occurred throughout history, such as slavery, the holocaust, the plague, 911, etc., etc.  Why did a 'God'  let these heinous things happen??  Believers in a 'God', have never been able to give me logical answers to these sorts of questions, that I have proposed to them!

Artwomyn.  

Welcome to the forum

Question; how do you know that there is not a god, who let life evolve via evolution, is a misogynist and so purposely oppresses women, and who also likes a good genocide, so does nothing to stop them when they pop up?

None of the reasons you gave are really good reasons to disbelieve in god, the first is a reason to ignore a literal interpretation of the bible, and the other two are reasons not to like the god, but not reasons to disbelieve, unless we restrict our definition of atheist to a Judeo-Christian god. I wold normally leave this sort of thing, but you seem to be keen on rational reasons for belief and disbelief, while not applying these rigorous standards to yourself.

Quote from: "SSY"Welcome to the forum

Question; how do you know that there is not a god, who let life evolve via evolution, is a misogynist and so purposely oppresses women, and who also likes a good genocide, so does nothing to stop them when they pop up?

None of the reasons you gave are really good reasons to disbelieve in god, the first is a reason to ignore a literal interpretation of the bible, and the other two are reasons not to like the god, but not reasons to disbelieve, unless we restrict our definition of atheist to a Judeo-Christian god. I wold normally leave this sort of thing, but you seem to be keen on rational reasons for belief and disbelief, while not applying these rigorous standards to yourself.

An angry atheist? Angry at the diety they dont believe in?  

It's all right, you don't have to feel sorry for me, Ibelieveinhymn. I have allready reached the end of suffering.  

Quote from: "IBelieveInHymn"I used to browse atheist internet forums disgracing God. Until God came to me personally, and he made me a believer in him.

When you talk to God, that's your prerogative. When god talks back, well...that's not a good sign.  

I do not feel sorry for Atheists, why should I.  You claim that you were an Atheist who was touched by your God and became a Theist.  I also was touched by a God and had that God touch my soul and said (I am Here).  An Atheist is an Atheist simply because no God has touched their souls and said (I am Here).  They are Atheists because it is Gods will that they be Atheists.  They are simply fulfilling Gods will for them.

  If a God touched your soul and said (I am Here) and a God touched my soul and said (I am Here) then there is no reason for a God or Gods not to touch the soul of an Atheist other then it is their God given duty to be Atheists.  So why feel sorry for Atheists when they are doing as God or Gods want them to do.  They are Atheists simply because God or Gods want them to be Atheists.

  As for your God/Jesus though, no such critter exists.  There is not and never will be a God/Jesus.  While the man Jesus was a decent fellow with some divine inspiration in his teachings, he is not God or a God.  Jehovah did not crawl into a cocoon and emerge as the Jesus/God butterfly all loving and forgiving.  And the Christian Religion by it’s teachings, history or doctrine is not in any way a God driven or God supported Religious Faith.  It is evil from its foundation through to the upper levels of it’s priesthoods.

  So trust me do not feel sorry for Atheists for they are doing what God or Gods have determined they should do.  Feel sorry for those like you who claim divine right when no divine right has been given to you.  You will be lucky not to burn in eternal fire and torment in the very hell that you and your church has created for others to burn in.