Title: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 06, 2009, 03:55:29 PM
Post by: omdatov on August 06, 2009, 03:55:29 PM
Hello,i regester in this forum for a simple purpose saving a big number of people from their darkness , for me i can't speak english very well but i'm ready to receive any question,disagree...i want just that we use the gift of our god "the mind" and evaluate problem with an objective point of view and we will see who is walking in the darkness and who is walking in the brightness ,first before any thing i advise all atheists to read the holy quran i'm sure many of you don't know what's the quran ,ok i will explain it later but i can say that's the "life of hearts" due to quran many atheists,crisitiens,
jewish (uses their mind) enter to the exact religion "the ISLAM" for a sample reason that the quran is the "word of god" and they say that "we didn't find any contradictions when we read the quran it's not word of human" but people who read bibel or any celestial book says that they are full of contradictions because man interfer in them and they are corrupted but the quran god say that he will preserve it.So it's a challange not only to atheist but all people in the hole world to find one contradiction only one contradiction in the quran , i swear that you will not find be sure. After this long introduction i will explain more the quran (i find a good explanation in a web site),then i will give you the quran :
For those new to the Quran, the word Quran (kurr-'aan) itself means recitation. The Quran is the last revelation to humanity and has been unchanged since it was sent down to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in the 7th century. The Quran's 114 chapters (Surahs) and 6236 verses (Ayahs) are the source of every Muslim's faith and practice.
The Quran has had such a powerful effect on all those who have read its words; From Umar ibn al-Khattab, one of the greatest enemies and persecutors of Islam, who read the first 14 verses of Surah Ta-Ha and was so struck by them, he not only became Muslim, but also one of Islam's strongest champions; To German born convert Muhammad Asad who early this century described the Quran as "the ultimate manifestation of God's grace to man, the ultimate wisdom, and the ultimate beauty of expression: in short, the word of God."
One thing to note is that this is the English translation of the meaning of the Quran , not the Quran itself. The Quran is in its original, pristine Arabic as it was revealed from Allah (the word for God in Arabic). Someone new to these verses may not fully understand the verses and may take them out of context. One must look into all the verses in relation to each other and the Sunnah and Hadith (example and traditions of the prophet (s)), the context of revelation, Tafsir (commentaries), the original lexical Arabic and scholarly understanding to fully interpret the Quran's meaning.
==> Please look to the attachement you will find the holy quran with english translation (i cant upload only 19 chapters ) if someone is interesting he can send to me his mail i will send to him the rest of chapters,an arabic audio recitation of some chapters of quran with ".mp3 & rm" and commentaries of these chapters to make them more clear ( with english translation)
jewish (uses their mind) enter to the exact religion "the ISLAM" for a sample reason that the quran is the "word of god" and they say that "we didn't find any contradictions when we read the quran it's not word of human" but people who read bibel or any celestial book says that they are full of contradictions because man interfer in them and they are corrupted but the quran god say that he will preserve it.So it's a challange not only to atheist but all people in the hole world to find one contradiction only one contradiction in the quran , i swear that you will not find be sure. After this long introduction i will explain more the quran (i find a good explanation in a web site),then i will give you the quran :
For those new to the Quran, the word Quran (kurr-'aan) itself means recitation. The Quran is the last revelation to humanity and has been unchanged since it was sent down to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in the 7th century. The Quran's 114 chapters (Surahs) and 6236 verses (Ayahs) are the source of every Muslim's faith and practice.
The Quran has had such a powerful effect on all those who have read its words; From Umar ibn al-Khattab, one of the greatest enemies and persecutors of Islam, who read the first 14 verses of Surah Ta-Ha and was so struck by them, he not only became Muslim, but also one of Islam's strongest champions; To German born convert Muhammad Asad who early this century described the Quran as "the ultimate manifestation of God's grace to man, the ultimate wisdom, and the ultimate beauty of expression: in short, the word of God."
One thing to note is that this is the English translation of the meaning of the Quran , not the Quran itself. The Quran is in its original, pristine Arabic as it was revealed from Allah (the word for God in Arabic). Someone new to these verses may not fully understand the verses and may take them out of context. One must look into all the verses in relation to each other and the Sunnah and Hadith (example and traditions of the prophet (s)), the context of revelation, Tafsir (commentaries), the original lexical Arabic and scholarly understanding to fully interpret the Quran's meaning.
==> Please look to the attachement you will find the holy quran with english translation (i cant upload only 19 chapters ) if someone is interesting he can send to me his mail i will send to him the rest of chapters,an arabic audio recitation of some chapters of quran with ".mp3 & rm" and commentaries of these chapters to make them more clear ( with english translation)
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 06, 2009, 04:01:56 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 06, 2009, 04:01:56 PM
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi109.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn47%2FBulldawg_42%2FPicardInsult.jpg&hash=be4f0c7e0c83d7ce847839974b332d41248443d9)
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: joeactor on August 06, 2009, 04:11:18 PM
Post by: joeactor on August 06, 2009, 04:11:18 PM
Now Curio - be nice...
Our new blind friend thinks that we're in the darkness.
Sad, actually.
omdatov I think you'll find that very few here will take you seriously if your goal is to convert us.
How about a nice conversation?
Are you open to the possibility that you may be wrong?
... and why aren't you worshiping Odin instead?
Welcome!,
JoeActor
Our new blind friend thinks that we're in the darkness.
Sad, actually.
omdatov I think you'll find that very few here will take you seriously if your goal is to convert us.
How about a nice conversation?
Are you open to the possibility that you may be wrong?
... and why aren't you worshiping Odin instead?
Welcome!,
JoeActor
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 06, 2009, 04:20:27 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 06, 2009, 04:20:27 PM
Joe:
If he wants to chat, that's great, but doesn't look that way.
Incidentally, the web site the text is taken from is here (http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/).
Quote from: "omdatov"i regester in this forum for a simple purpose saving a big number of people from their darknessJust pointing out that someone seems to have signed up for no other purpose than to evangelize.
If he wants to chat, that's great, but doesn't look that way.Incidentally, the web site the text is taken from is here (http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/).
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: joeactor on August 06, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
Post by: joeactor on August 06, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Incidentally, the web site the text is taken from is here (http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/).
Blasphemy!
...er...
I mean...
Plagiarism!
Yeah, I'll be surprised if they come back, but ya never know...
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 06, 2009, 07:04:52 PM
Post by: omdatov on August 06, 2009, 07:04:52 PM
I expect these types of replies, but i'm so surprised for the first reply of "curiosityandthecat" , i understand from these replies that you are at the right way, good can any atheist convince me why he choose this way, ok for me i'm sure that he can't for a sample reason because all atheist they can't convaince even them selves and we have a proverb here that says " the poor can't give" . For me i'm sure that i'm in the right way and i'm ready for any conversation ,sorry a "civilized conversation" not like these weak replies specially the first one...OK
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Thom Phelps on August 06, 2009, 07:46:12 PM
Post by: Thom Phelps on August 06, 2009, 07:46:12 PM
omdatov,
The Qur'an, The Bible, The Torah, et cetera are all written by people to explain the unexplainable (of their times), to lay down basic rules of society, and ultimately to control people through fear. If Allah had a message to share in 610 A.D. with the world, why would he tell some guy meditating in a cave instead of speaking to the whole world at once? And why would the message take so many years for Mohammed to "formulate?"
Makes no sense and the fakeness of it is too obvious.
Normally, I would say, "Good luck in your endeavors," but with regard to missionaries like you, I hope your attempts to convert people to your cult fails.
The Qur'an, The Bible, The Torah, et cetera are all written by people to explain the unexplainable (of their times), to lay down basic rules of society, and ultimately to control people through fear. If Allah had a message to share in 610 A.D. with the world, why would he tell some guy meditating in a cave instead of speaking to the whole world at once? And why would the message take so many years for Mohammed to "formulate?"
Makes no sense and the fakeness of it is too obvious.
Normally, I would say, "Good luck in your endeavors," but with regard to missionaries like you, I hope your attempts to convert people to your cult fails.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Tanker on August 06, 2009, 07:47:56 PM
Post by: Tanker on August 06, 2009, 07:47:56 PM
Quote from: "omdatov"I expect these types of replies, but i'm so surprised for the first reply of "curiosityandthecat" , i understand from these replies that you are at the right way, good can any atheist convince me why he choose this way, ok for me i'm sure that he can't for a sample reason because all atheist they can't convaince even them selves and we have a proverb here that says " the poor can't give" . For me i'm sure that i'm in the right way and i'm ready for any conversation ,sorry a "civilized conversation" not like these weak replies specially the first one...OK
He was corrected by a moderator immediatly after his post so don't worry about it, and as he pointd out in his second response you have stated that you come he to evangilise or in other words preach and attempt to convert us which is against the forum rules. You can have an open conversation and free discourse but you can NOT evangilise here.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Whitney on August 06, 2009, 08:03:10 PM
Post by: Whitney on August 06, 2009, 08:03:10 PM
Quote from: "Tanker"Quote from: "omdatov"You can a open conversation and free discourse but you can NOT evangilise here.
That is correct..preaching is against the rules.
So, omdatov, what do you want to discuss? Shall we start with why plagiarism is immoral (and also against the rules of this forum)?
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Tom62 on August 06, 2009, 09:08:48 PM
Post by: Tom62 on August 06, 2009, 09:08:48 PM
The phrase
So, if I read the following verse from "The Cow" in the Quran
Quote from: "omdatov""Someone new to these verses may not fully understand the verses and may take them out of context."also sounds very familiar. It is the same phrase used by Christian apologists, who will tell you as well that what you read is not really what you read.
So, if I read the following verse from "The Cow" in the Quran
Quote2:104 O ye who believe, say not (unto the Prophet): "Listen to us" but say "Look upon us," and be ye listeners. For disbelievers is a painful doom.It really means that there will be no real doom for unbelievers, because Allah is merciful?
Quote from: "omdatov"The Quran is the unchanged last revelation to humanity and the source of every Muslim's faith and practiceIf that is the case then why are there different groups of Muslims; who follow different interpretations of the Quran and who are even willing to kill their own Muslim (brothers) for their Muslim faith? Logically speaking this means for me that, if Allah/God didn't get the message across properly the first (Tora) and the second (Bible) time; he also failed miserably the third (Quran) time.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Karras on August 06, 2009, 11:18:31 PM
Post by: Karras on August 06, 2009, 11:18:31 PM
Quote from: "omdatov"For me i'm sure that i'm in the right way and i'm ready for any conversation ,sorry a "civilized conversation" not like these weak replies specially the first one...OK
I like civilized conversations. How about a civilized conversation about the alleged age of Aisha, when Mo consumated their marriage? Maybe next we can have a civilized conversation about the alleged number of men and boys killed, who were taken prisoner at Qurayza?
Civilized conversations are great, don't you think?
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 12:45:09 AM
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 12:45:09 AM
Hello, ok right now there are 8 replies but any atheist can explain why he choose this faith . let make it more easier can any atheist give me one justification that god didn't exist.
About the questions of Thom Phelpes the answer is: In the Quran god says to us that he sent many prophets and messengers ,the number of prophets is 124000 and the number of messengers is 314, ok the difference between prophet and messeger that the Messenger is one who is sent to a disbelieving people, and the Prophet is one who is sent to a believing people with the sharee'ah of the Messenger who came before him, to teach them and judge between them, as Allaah(god) says (interpretation of the meaning):
"Verily, We did send down the Tawraat (Torah) [to Moosa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allaah's Will, judged for the Jews" [al-Maa'idah 5:44] here you have the name of some prophet and messenger:
Arabic Name>>>>>>>English Name
Adam
Idris >>> Enoch Approx. 1600-1800 after advent of Adam.
Nuh >>> Noah Approx. 1600 years after advent of Adam.
Hud >>>>>Eber Approx. 2900 years after advent of Adam.
Salih >>>>Methuselah Approx. 3000 years after advent of Adam.
Ibrahim >>>>Abraham Approx 3400 years after advent of Adam.
Isma'il >>>>>Ishmael Approx 3400-3500 years after advent oAdam.
Ishak >>>>>Isaac Approx 3400-3500 years after advent of Adam.
Yaqub >>>>>Jacob Approx 3500-3600 years after advent of Adam.
Lut >>>>>>>Lot Approx. 3400 years after advent of Adam.
Shuaib >>>>> Jethro Approx. 3900 years after advent of Adam.
Yusuf >>>>>>Joseph Approx. 3600-3700 years after advent of Adam.
Ayub>>>>>>>Job Approx. 3800 years after advent of Adam.
Dhul-Kifl>>>>>>Ezekiel
Yunus >>>>>>Jonah Approx. 3800 years after advent of Adam.
Musa & Harun>>>>>Moses & Aaron Approx. 4000 years after advent of Adam.
Hizqueel >>>>>>>Ezekiel Approx. 4800 years after advent of Adam.
Elisha >>>>>>>>>Elyas Approx. 4500 years after advent of Adam.
Shammil>>>>>>>>Samuel Approx. 4250 years after advent of Adam.
Dawud>>>>>>>>>David Approx. 4300 years after advent of Adam.
Daniel>>>>>>>>>Daniel Approx. 4800 years after advent of Adam
Uzair>>>>>>>>>>Ezra Approx. 4850 years after advent of Adam.
Zechariah>>>>>>>Zakariya Approx 5400 years after advent of Adam
Yahya>>>>>>>>>John Approx. 5400 years after advent of Adam.
Isa>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus Approx. 5400 years after advent of Adam
Mohammed>>>>>Approx. 6000 years after advent of Adam
all these messengers and prophets sent to their own nations and their celestial books such as (Bibel , Tora ,Zabour...) were corrupted and distorted by people to make these books similar to their attitudes ,whims and instincts, as allah says: "30. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! 31. They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)".(30-31 Repentance) but the last messenger&prophet is Mohammad, peace be upon him, was sent to the hole world ( human beeing and The Jinn (Sprites)) and one of the miracle of the Quran that anyone in the world can corrupt him because allah took the responsibility of keeping the Quran safe,and in the history many peoples try to corrupt the Quran ,they even try to add or remove a one letter but all their attemps go in vain,also the holly Quran is valid in all places and all times and many scientific facts proved in last and in this centry exits in the Quran wich was sent down to the Prophet Muhammad(who can't write or read), peace be upon him, 1400 years ago.(The Quran is truly a living miracle. Going deeper into it, one finds amazing characteristics from every perspective and i'm ready to give you more and more if you want) .
==>i'm not converting your faith but you ask your self is your faith is true and be so objective.
About the 2 question the Quran is sent down in 22 years and it's a total wisdom of Allah because if it's sent down in 1 time people will refuse it specially in islamic laws for example in drinking alcohol, the quran didn't borbid it in the first step because people in Madinah are accustemed to drink a lot of alcohol so if the quran forbid drinking the majority of people will not accept this so in the first step the Quran forbid that they make prayer in drinking status and in second steps forbid drinking and there are many other examples ,that's called "graduation in tachrie".
i hope that i answer your questions and i'm ready for others.
About the questions of Thom Phelpes the answer is: In the Quran god says to us that he sent many prophets and messengers ,the number of prophets is 124000 and the number of messengers is 314, ok the difference between prophet and messeger that the Messenger is one who is sent to a disbelieving people, and the Prophet is one who is sent to a believing people with the sharee'ah of the Messenger who came before him, to teach them and judge between them, as Allaah(god) says (interpretation of the meaning):
"Verily, We did send down the Tawraat (Torah) [to Moosa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allaah's Will, judged for the Jews" [al-Maa'idah 5:44] here you have the name of some prophet and messenger:
Arabic Name>>>>>>>English Name
Adam
Idris >>> Enoch Approx. 1600-1800 after advent of Adam.
Nuh >>> Noah Approx. 1600 years after advent of Adam.
Hud >>>>>Eber Approx. 2900 years after advent of Adam.
Salih >>>>Methuselah Approx. 3000 years after advent of Adam.
Ibrahim >>>>Abraham Approx 3400 years after advent of Adam.
Isma'il >>>>>Ishmael Approx 3400-3500 years after advent oAdam.
Ishak >>>>>Isaac Approx 3400-3500 years after advent of Adam.
Yaqub >>>>>Jacob Approx 3500-3600 years after advent of Adam.
Lut >>>>>>>Lot Approx. 3400 years after advent of Adam.
Shuaib >>>>> Jethro Approx. 3900 years after advent of Adam.
Yusuf >>>>>>Joseph Approx. 3600-3700 years after advent of Adam.
Ayub>>>>>>>Job Approx. 3800 years after advent of Adam.
Dhul-Kifl>>>>>>Ezekiel
Yunus >>>>>>Jonah Approx. 3800 years after advent of Adam.
Musa & Harun>>>>>Moses & Aaron Approx. 4000 years after advent of Adam.
Hizqueel >>>>>>>Ezekiel Approx. 4800 years after advent of Adam.
Elisha >>>>>>>>>Elyas Approx. 4500 years after advent of Adam.
Shammil>>>>>>>>Samuel Approx. 4250 years after advent of Adam.
Dawud>>>>>>>>>David Approx. 4300 years after advent of Adam.
Daniel>>>>>>>>>Daniel Approx. 4800 years after advent of Adam
Uzair>>>>>>>>>>Ezra Approx. 4850 years after advent of Adam.
Zechariah>>>>>>>Zakariya Approx 5400 years after advent of Adam
Yahya>>>>>>>>>John Approx. 5400 years after advent of Adam.
Isa>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus Approx. 5400 years after advent of Adam
Mohammed>>>>>Approx. 6000 years after advent of Adam
all these messengers and prophets sent to their own nations and their celestial books such as (Bibel , Tora ,Zabour...) were corrupted and distorted by people to make these books similar to their attitudes ,whims and instincts, as allah says: "30. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! 31. They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)".(30-31 Repentance) but the last messenger&prophet is Mohammad, peace be upon him, was sent to the hole world ( human beeing and The Jinn (Sprites)) and one of the miracle of the Quran that anyone in the world can corrupt him because allah took the responsibility of keeping the Quran safe,and in the history many peoples try to corrupt the Quran ,they even try to add or remove a one letter but all their attemps go in vain,also the holly Quran is valid in all places and all times and many scientific facts proved in last and in this centry exits in the Quran wich was sent down to the Prophet Muhammad(who can't write or read), peace be upon him, 1400 years ago.(The Quran is truly a living miracle. Going deeper into it, one finds amazing characteristics from every perspective and i'm ready to give you more and more if you want) .
==>i'm not converting your faith but you ask your self is your faith is true and be so objective.
About the 2 question the Quran is sent down in 22 years and it's a total wisdom of Allah because if it's sent down in 1 time people will refuse it specially in islamic laws for example in drinking alcohol, the quran didn't borbid it in the first step because people in Madinah are accustemed to drink a lot of alcohol so if the quran forbid drinking the majority of people will not accept this so in the first step the Quran forbid that they make prayer in drinking status and in second steps forbid drinking and there are many other examples ,that's called "graduation in tachrie".
i hope that i answer your questions and i'm ready for others.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Whitney on August 07, 2009, 12:57:12 AM
Post by: Whitney on August 07, 2009, 12:57:12 AM
Atheist isn't a faith as it does not involve belief in something without proof.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Sophus on August 07, 2009, 01:51:12 AM
Post by: Sophus on August 07, 2009, 01:51:12 AM
I don't think I would need to be saved from an all-powerful being who loves me to no end, but thanks.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 02:14:54 AM
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 02:14:54 AM
ok,Karras my only request be objective u will reach the truth, be sure that the truth is very close to you.
for Aicha,may Allah be pleased with her,and his mariage,i didn't understand your question very well but i will try to answer:
Let's discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet in Islam!
First of all, it is important to know:
Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married. Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet's marriage was:
1-People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.
2-Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries.
did you see the picture of a 9-year old girl giving birth in Thailand,also there is 12-year old in Romania getting married...
Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility!The article specifically says they were common and not exceptions!
It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off. It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage.
That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. The culture back then and in many third world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today.
Prophet Muhammad's marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions!
==>So to call Prophet Muhammad a pedophile for marrying a girl that was OFFERED TO HIM by her parents and was accepted by all of the people back then including the enemies of Islam, the pagans, is quite absurd.
about the second question i can't write all the story :
The Jews of Bani Kurayzah live in the suburbs of the city was between them and the Prophet, peace be upon him, a promise that they don't help his enemy,in the battle of Elkandak were one of the tribes hostile to the city wich called Banu Nadir who expelled the prophet, peace be upon him, them from the Madinah,so there were a conversation between "Hayiy Bin Akhtab" (the leader of Banu Nadir) and Banu Kurayzah who want them to break the era(promise) between them and Mohammad, peace be upon him,and help them to colonize the Madinah,Mohammad , peace be upon him,hear about this
conspiracy and you can continue...
for Aicha,may Allah be pleased with her,and his mariage,i didn't understand your question very well but i will try to answer:
Let's discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet in Islam!
First of all, it is important to know:
Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married. Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet's marriage was:
1-People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.
2-Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries.
did you see the picture of a 9-year old girl giving birth in Thailand,also there is 12-year old in Romania getting married...
Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility!The article specifically says they were common and not exceptions!
It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off. It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage.
That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. The culture back then and in many third world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today.
Prophet Muhammad's marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions!
==>So to call Prophet Muhammad a pedophile for marrying a girl that was OFFERED TO HIM by her parents and was accepted by all of the people back then including the enemies of Islam, the pagans, is quite absurd.
about the second question i can't write all the story :
The Jews of Bani Kurayzah live in the suburbs of the city was between them and the Prophet, peace be upon him, a promise that they don't help his enemy,in the battle of Elkandak were one of the tribes hostile to the city wich called Banu Nadir who expelled the prophet, peace be upon him, them from the Madinah,so there were a conversation between "Hayiy Bin Akhtab" (the leader of Banu Nadir) and Banu Kurayzah who want them to break the era(promise) between them and Mohammad, peace be upon him,and help them to colonize the Madinah,Mohammad , peace be upon him,hear about this
conspiracy and you can continue...
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Squid on August 07, 2009, 02:21:29 AM
Post by: Squid on August 07, 2009, 02:21:29 AM
I have a hard time believing the hallucinations of an epileptic as having any root in truth.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 02:56:40 AM
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 02:56:40 AM
Tom62,are you here, saying " groups of muslims" is a wrong phrase because muslims are like a 1 person as he said our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him.
i can't deny that many people give a bad picture of islam to the test of the world but be sure that the islam isn't like this. Many have bad attitude about islam but when they learn it they found that's innocent from this bad picture given by some people who are misunderstinding the Quran, then they try to give his pristine picture.
i can't deny that many people give a bad picture of islam to the test of the world but be sure that the islam isn't like this. Many have bad attitude about islam but when they learn it they found that's innocent from this bad picture given by some people who are misunderstinding the Quran, then they try to give his pristine picture.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Thom Phelps on August 07, 2009, 03:54:51 AM
Post by: Thom Phelps on August 07, 2009, 03:54:51 AM
Quote from: "omdatov"About the questions of Thom Phelpes the answer is: In the Quran god says to us that he sent many prophets and messengers ,the number of prophets is 124000 and the number of messengers is 314, ok the difference between prophet and messeger ...
Don't you see that that's exactly the kind of rationale a person would come up with in response to my observation? Just because a man writes down that God said something doesn't mean God actually said it. Just because someone has a vision of angels, doesn't mean it's a divine message. It could just be a bad dream from eating three-day-old hummus. Or maybe he has really vivid dreams about heaven because he's got paranoid schizophrenia, which warps his sense of reality?
Mohammed was prone to bouts of "seizure-like episodes" that often lasted for days. I suggest reading, "No God But God" for an insight into your religion.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: SSY on August 07, 2009, 05:53:49 AM
Post by: SSY on August 07, 2009, 05:53:49 AM
This thread has it all.
No true Scotsman fallacy, evangelising, defence of paedophilia, ignoring questions, argumentum ad populum, different "interpretations" of the Koran, shifting the burden of proof and even plagiarism (unless of course, your writing style is to write without caps, using poor spelling and grammar, then, when you want to make a point about your beloved fairytales, suddenly become competent)
Long may it continue.
No true Scotsman fallacy, evangelising, defence of paedophilia, ignoring questions, argumentum ad populum, different "interpretations" of the Koran, shifting the burden of proof and even plagiarism (unless of course, your writing style is to write without caps, using poor spelling and grammar, then, when you want to make a point about your beloved fairytales, suddenly become competent)
Long may it continue.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Sheeplauncher on August 07, 2009, 06:00:26 AM
Post by: Sheeplauncher on August 07, 2009, 06:00:26 AM
Quote from: "SSY"This thread has it all.
No true Scotsman fallacy, evangelising, defence of paedophilia, ignoring questions, argumentum ad populum, different "interpretations" of the Koran, shifting the burden of proof and even plagiarism (unless of course, your writing style is to write without caps, using poor spelling and grammar, then, when you want to make a point about your beloved fairytales, suddenly become competent)
Long may it continue.
Nuff said. Getting my popcorn and comfy chair to enjoy the the show!
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: AlP on August 07, 2009, 06:52:24 AM
Post by: AlP on August 07, 2009, 06:52:24 AM
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Karras on August 07, 2009, 10:50:50 AM
Post by: Karras on August 07, 2009, 10:50:50 AM
Oh dear, oh dea, oh dear omdatov.
First of all, I did not ask when they were married. This was 6 incidentally. I asked when it was consumated. I am aware that child brides are still a reality today an this practice is wrong. Do you honestly think that pointing to others doing wrong makes good old Mo any better? Furthermore, wrong as it my be, my understanding is that most of these child weddings are not consumated untill she is at least a little older than 9.
I'm not sure where you are going with talk of short lifespans. Are girls typically fertile at 9? Can you honestly say that having sex with a 9 year old offers any benefit in terms of the survival of the society?
Finally, and pretty damningly, you are seemingly suggesting that I can go screw a 9 year old, as long as her daddy says it is ok.
The figure for the number of prisoners massacred (in this specific instance) is allegedly in the region of 800, with the distinction beteween men and boys being made by pulling down their pants and seeing if they had pubes. Is this a just punishment for refusing to aid Mo's war of aggression?
Care to add justifying genocide to SSY's list?
These are just 2 of the crimes against humanity allegedly perpetrated by the "prophet of peace". I can dig a few more up if you would like to see how many other excuses you can come up with.
First of all, I did not ask when they were married. This was 6 incidentally. I asked when it was consumated. I am aware that child brides are still a reality today an this practice is wrong. Do you honestly think that pointing to others doing wrong makes good old Mo any better? Furthermore, wrong as it my be, my understanding is that most of these child weddings are not consumated untill she is at least a little older than 9.
I'm not sure where you are going with talk of short lifespans. Are girls typically fertile at 9? Can you honestly say that having sex with a 9 year old offers any benefit in terms of the survival of the society?
Finally, and pretty damningly, you are seemingly suggesting that I can go screw a 9 year old, as long as her daddy says it is ok.
The figure for the number of prisoners massacred (in this specific instance) is allegedly in the region of 800, with the distinction beteween men and boys being made by pulling down their pants and seeing if they had pubes. Is this a just punishment for refusing to aid Mo's war of aggression?
Care to add justifying genocide to SSY's list?
These are just 2 of the crimes against humanity allegedly perpetrated by the "prophet of peace". I can dig a few more up if you would like to see how many other excuses you can come up with.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: SSY on August 07, 2009, 02:35:24 PM
Post by: SSY on August 07, 2009, 02:35:24 PM
No true Scotsman fallacy, evangelising, defence of paedophilia, ignoring questions, argumentum ad populum, different "interpretations" of the Koran, shifting the burden of proof and even plagiarism (unless of course, your writing style is to write without caps, using poor spelling and grammar, then, when you want to make a point about your beloved fairytales, suddenly become competent), not to mention justifying genocide.
I live to give
I live to give
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Tom62 on August 07, 2009, 04:47:27 PM
Post by: Tom62 on August 07, 2009, 04:47:27 PM
Quote from: "omdatov"Tom62,are you here, saying " groups of muslims" is a wrong phrase because muslims are like a 1 person as he said our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him.Really? Just check the news. It is full of violence between Muslims. 34 Muslims killed in bomb attacks against Iraqi Shiites just one hour ago (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... jyM0IDT93w (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hB3oCML74NZx9ZivcWjyM0IDT93w));
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 10:10:36 PM
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 10:10:36 PM
Quote from: "SSY"your writing style is to write without caps, using poor spelling and grammar.For the beginning i said that i'm not good at english because it's not my own language ,the most important is understanding what i say because we are not "studying english courses" here, besides you talk about plagiarism , you know that we have thousands of books wich proves the existing of God and talking about religion , for us (muslim) also cristian and jewish the problem of "God exist or not " it's so obvious!! for me i can't translante these books to the english so i take the translation of some muslim friends who are good at english ,by the way the difference between us and christian that christian said that the God represent mother, father and son also they said that Jesus, peace be upon him,is the son of God , the Jewish said that Ezra is the son of God but muslim believe of one God the creator of all things as Allah says in the Quran "Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.
also you say that i ignore question !!! who ignore the question!!! i ask 1 question i didn't find any answer!!
come on SSY try to be objective and answer this question ,may be my first question is so hard ,ok you can get the help of all atheist in the hole world,the smart philosopher,the most famous book ,the internet... . But please don't answer me silly answers.
God doesn't exisit => the Quran isn't word of God => Mohammad ( who can't read or write) wrote the Quran in 1400 years ago.
The Holy Quran contains hundreds of scientific facts that, when checked by modern sciences (20th and 21th centuries) , proved to completely in agreement with science.
can you explain how?
ok i will give you and any atheist is proud of his conviction an illimited time to answer this question but try to find the answer before your death because in this day you will find the answer so clear when the time is out.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Whitney on August 07, 2009, 10:24:23 PM
Post by: Whitney on August 07, 2009, 10:24:23 PM
Quote from: "omdatov"also you say that i ignore question !!! who ignore the question!!! i ask 1 question i didn't find any answer!!
I answered it...my answer was that your question didn't make sense since atheism isn't a faith.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Whitney on August 07, 2009, 10:29:33 PM
Post by: Whitney on August 07, 2009, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: "omdatov"The Holy Quran contains hundreds of scientific facts that, when checked by modern sciences (20th and 21th centuries) , proved to completely in agreement with science.
can you explain how?
Such as.....?
I've seen some examples before (and was unimpressed) but you're going to have to provide examples of what science in the Quran you think would have been unknowable at the time.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Heretical Rants on August 07, 2009, 11:23:19 PM
Post by: Heretical Rants on August 07, 2009, 11:23:19 PM
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danasoft.com%2Fsig%2Fnicky32976987.jpg&hash=09407a1794add21148b5a3de15a6a79e9939c914)
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html)
I've been talking to Muslims, and this comes up a lot.
QuoteSuch as.....?This should nearly be a complete list:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html)
I've been talking to Muslims, and this comes up a lot.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 11:39:57 PM
Post by: omdatov on August 07, 2009, 11:39:57 PM
Quote from: "Whitney"Such as.....?you can try this http://www.55a.net/firas/en1/
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Karras on August 07, 2009, 11:57:01 PM
Post by: Karras on August 07, 2009, 11:57:01 PM
I have a funny feeling my last post will be ignored. Ho hum.....
Omdatov,
I am curious, if the Qur'an is such a great textbook for modern science, why exactly is the Islamic world not leading the way in scientific research? Have you scientists just not been paying attention to it?
Omdatov,
I am curious, if the Qur'an is such a great textbook for modern science, why exactly is the Islamic world not leading the way in scientific research? Have you scientists just not been paying attention to it?
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Whitney on August 08, 2009, 12:21:11 AM
Post by: Whitney on August 08, 2009, 12:21:11 AM
Quote from: "omdatov"Quote from: "Whitney"Such as.....?you can try this http://www.55a.net/firas/en1/
You could try picking out ones you think are especially convincing. I don't have time to read though a whole website right now.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Heretical Rants on August 08, 2009, 12:31:33 AM
Post by: Heretical Rants on August 08, 2009, 12:31:33 AM
The expansion of the universe:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_02.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_02.html)
"And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it." (Qur'an, 51:47)
The roundness of the Earth (never mind that the Egyptians had already calculated the Circumference):
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_15.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_15.html)
The "Big Bang":
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_01.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_01.html)
The Sun is at the center of the Solar System:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_104.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_104.html)
I wasn't impressed the first time I saw it, and I'm not impressed now.
Gravity: "for did we not make the Earth a receptacle?"
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_02.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_02.html)
"And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it." (Qur'an, 51:47)
The roundness of the Earth (never mind that the Egyptians had already calculated the Circumference):
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_15.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_15.html)
The "Big Bang":
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_01.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_01.html)
The Sun is at the center of the Solar System:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_104.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_104.html)
I wasn't impressed the first time I saw it, and I'm not impressed now.
Gravity: "for did we not make the Earth a receptacle?"
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Fallen Jedii on August 08, 2009, 02:12:55 AM
Post by: Fallen Jedii on August 08, 2009, 02:12:55 AM
Quote from: "Thom Phelps"omdatov,
The Qur'an, The Bible, The Torah, et cetera are all written by people to explain the unexplainable (of their times), to lay down basic rules of society, and ultimately to control people through fear. If Allah had a message to share in 610 A.D. with the world, why would he tell some guy meditating in a cave instead of speaking to the whole world at once? And why would the message take so many years for Mohammed to "formulate?"
Makes no sense and the fakeness of it is too obvious.
Normally, I would say, "Good luck in your endeavors," but with regard to missionaries like you, I hope your attempts to convert people to your cult fails.
I can't tell you how many times I've repeated this over and over to my friends (not my family, it wouldn't turn out well). What's so hard to understand?
People at the time had no scientific explanations for anything. They relied on mythical stories in order to explain things such as why my hut was struck by lightning last night, or where thunder comes from.
It's that simple, but people can't just sit down and think about it for two minutes. Hell, I'd argue that it takes less than two minutes of serious thinking to discover that there are no gods.
Hearing this person's speech reminds me of school. Everytime a bunch of religious fanatics come in they say they come in to save us from hell. Well, they don't really say that, but it's clearly their intention. This preaching is getting so tiresome.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Will on August 08, 2009, 03:04:50 AM
Post by: Will on August 08, 2009, 03:04:50 AM
I've read the Quran and a bit of the Hadith. I found nothing different than I found in the New Testament or the Torah.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 08, 2009, 12:30:59 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 08, 2009, 12:30:59 PM
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1827
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 08, 2009, 11:38:50 PM
Post by: omdatov on August 08, 2009, 11:38:50 PM
Quote from: "Karras"Omdatov,In fact, you are totally right Karras that the islamic nation is one of the weakest nation in the world but this have many causes , the main one that the most of us are ignoring the Holy Quran and the Hadith so the consequence is weakness as Allah says:" 124. "But whosoever turns away from My Message, verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment." [Qur'an] the most of us are worshiping girls , money and bear...our money is wasted in the american and european casino and night club...the big number of our scientist are in America and Europe because our govenments says that they havn't mony to waste it into scientific researching!!
I am curious, if the Qur'an is such a great textbook for modern science, why exactly is the Islamic world not leading the way in scientific research? Have you scientists just not been paying attention to it?
But, if you go back years ago you will find that the islamic nation were the leader of the world for more then 1200 years .
Our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, and the Sahaba (his friends) are shepherding cows and sheeps ,when they respect the Holy of Quran and consider it a way of life they are becoming the leader of world in approx 100 years then the power of islamic empire increase to reach the top in the Ottoman Empire (1299 - 1924) (in approx 1600 we are colonizing more than the half of the world) but as i said before the main fact of fall to the Ottoman Empire is ignoring the Holy Quran.
After the two crucade wars and the defeat of cristian against muslim many of their writers such us Job (english writer) said that "the only way to defeat islam is bring up guys who don't know anything about their religion and the Quran"
Nowadays America and Europe know that if they want still the leader they must bring up an islamic guys who don't know anything about islam,they want them to love the life ,girls,money ...and hate the islam and Allah(god).
an american writer said" islam is like monster it can sleep for a long time but when he wake up he become the leader".
=> Be sure Karras that we will become the leader of world again because our prophet Mohammed said that .when? only God knows.
Finally i advise you to read the history of islamic nation you will see the real ethics of islam.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Karras on August 08, 2009, 11:47:11 PM
Post by: Karras on August 08, 2009, 11:47:11 PM
Quote from: "omdatov"Drivel.
Please stop preaching. My sides are splitting from the
z.I will not be so easily deflected on the "ethics of Islam". The history of the Islamic world speaks for itself really, as does the track record of your founding member (including what he did with his member).
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Tanker on August 09, 2009, 01:15:46 AM
Post by: Tanker on August 09, 2009, 01:15:46 AM
Quote from: "omdatov"Quote from: "Karras"Omdatov,In fact, you are totally right Karras that the islamic nation is one of the weakest nation in the world but this have many causes , the main one that the most of us are ignoring the Holy Quran and the Hadith so the consequence is weakness
I am curious, if the Qur'an is such a great textbook for modern science, why exactly is the Islamic world not leading the way in scientific research? Have you scientists just not been paying attention to it?
That makes little sense since the rest of the world isn't following the quran either and science is advancing here. By you logic the rest of the world should be even farther behind scientificly since most don't follow the Quran in any way.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: SSY on August 09, 2009, 02:52:04 AM
Post by: SSY on August 09, 2009, 02:52:04 AM
That miracles of the quran site is full of crap. Just an FYI
Also, turns out muslims can fly
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/predictions_08.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/predictions_08.html)
Also, turns out muslims can fly
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/predictions_08.html (http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/predictions_08.html)
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Squid on August 09, 2009, 05:00:19 AM
Post by: Squid on August 09, 2009, 05:00:19 AM
Quote from: "Thom Phelps"It could just be a bad dream from eating three-day-old hummus. Or maybe he has really vivid dreams about heaven because he's got paranoid schizophrenia, which warps his sense of reality?
His "spells" sound like he most like had temporal lobe epilepsy.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: NaturaLCalamity on August 09, 2009, 07:04:48 AM
Post by: NaturaLCalamity on August 09, 2009, 07:04:48 AM
Wow Omdatov. Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't even read what you're even trying to say, so I will not be replying to any of your lies. Second, you're copying and pasting more than you are writing anything yourself. Please, just stop. If you want to discuss religion, then say so. In the meantime, stop plagiarizing! We want to read your thoughts, not some crumby website!
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: Karras on August 09, 2009, 09:35:23 AM
Post by: Karras on August 09, 2009, 09:35:23 AM
Quote from: "Tanker"Quote from: "omdatov"Quote from: "Karras"Omdatov,In fact, you are totally right Karras that the islamic nation is one of the weakest nation in the world but this have many causes , the main one that the most of us are ignoring the Holy Quran and the Hadith so the consequence is weakness
I am curious, if the Qur'an is such a great textbook for modern science, why exactly is the Islamic world not leading the way in scientific research? Have you scientists just not been paying attention to it?
That makes little sense since the rest of the world isn't folloing the quran either and science is advancing here. By you logic the rest of the world should be even farther behind scientificly since most don't follow the Quran in any way.
My thoughts exactly. Even the bit about lack of government funding is not gonna hold water as much of the valuable research is done in the private sector.
Furthermore, would you have us believe that people like this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden
are simply not good enough Muslims and not paying eough attention to the Qur'an? (I find this doubtful by the way)
If so, do you not think you might be better off cleaning your own frickin' house, before you come preaching to us about how great Islam is and how pedophilia is OK in context?
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: omdatov on August 09, 2009, 10:56:57 PM
Post by: omdatov on August 09, 2009, 10:56:57 PM
Quote from: "Tanker"That makes little sense since the rest of the world isn't folloing the quran either and science is advancing here. By you logic the rest of the world should be even farther behind scientificly since most don't follow the Quran in any way.Ok,first i say that the main cause that we are ignoring the Holy Quran(by the way in the Holy Quran there dozens of verses which encourage the science and study),so there are other cause one of them that in islamic nation our government don't encourage scientific researchings and claimed that they havn't money to waste it in studying ...
We have two types of rules: universal rule and rules that have faith as origin(it means the help of God).
First the universal rules is for all the humanity,for example if you sow wheat and you give it water regardless of your faith (muslim,critian,jewish,handos...) it will grown up and became an ear of wheat ,if you study you succeed that's why the American and European nation are the strongest now due to the industrial revolution in the 19th centry.
But the faith rules are only for muslims.
so you can say ,only muslims can have: universal rules + rules that have faith as origin => leader of the world.
Title: Re: save your self
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 10, 2009, 12:16:11 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on August 10, 2009, 12:16:11 AM
Quote from: "omdatov"We have two types of rules: universal rule and rules that have faith as origin(it means the help of God).Only two types of rules, huh...
First the universal rules is for all the humanity,for example if you sow wheat and you give it water regardless of your faith (muslim,critian,jewish,handos...) it will grown up and became an ear of wheat ,if you study you succeed that's why the American and European nation are the strongest now due to the industrial revolution in the 19th centry.
But the faith rules are only for muslims.
so you can say ,only muslims can have: universal rules + rules that have faith as origin => leader of the world.
Well, how about that.