Happy Atheist Forum

Sha'mon.

Quote from: "TMZ"Michael suffered a cardiac arrest earlier this afternoon and paramedics were unable to revive him. We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back.

Michael is survived by three children: Michael Joseph Jackson, Jr., Paris Michael Katherine Jackson and Prince "Blanket" Michael Jackson II.

http://bit.ly/19f8Xb

All of the standard news sources state he has been hospitalized but that's it... is TMZ trustworthy?


And in the comments, there is at least one "it's always in 3s" comment.  How close do celebrity deaths have to be for it to be counted as 3?  Week? Month?  Year?  So silly.

Quote from: "rlrose328"And in the comments, there is at least one "it's always in 3s" comment.  How close do celebrity deaths have to be for it to be counted as 3?  Week? Month?  Year?  So silly.

I saw an atheist make that comment on Twitter too...  Anyway, the 3 would be the plane today who had an old woman die in flight then blew a tire on landing...or are they waiting on a 3 now too.   , yes silly.

QuoteOK! Magazine also confirms pop star Michael Jackson has passed away. It says the hospital remains on lockdown.

http://twitter.com/BreakingNews (http://twitter.com/BreakingNews)

None of the big news stations have confirmed yet though.  

This is funny:

Quote@tweetus_christ: is hiding the kids for obvious reasons.

The big news outlets have face to lose if they're wrong. Anybody care if TMZ or OK! makes a mistake? Hell, no! Haha. It's just a matter of time. Entities like TMZ pay people at hospitals in and around Hollywood to feed them information. I'd say it's trustworthy.

As far as the "in 3s" thing goes, I'm going with Ed McMahon, Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson. But, as I tweeted earlier, none of them was relevant in any meaningful way last week; death doesn't change that.

 

Major news networks are now confirming that he has died. This is sort of stunning. I guess this is what it felt like for my parents when Elvis died.

Nah, Elvis talked him into this.

Well it has been confirmed that at the age of fifty Michael Jackson has deceased due to a heart attack. Personally I believe that it is terrible to attack the dead. He should be remembered in the light of the good he did rather than the allegations. A farewell to the King of Pop.

Michael who?

I didn't believe it when I first heard it

I never really listened to his music.

I'm surprised but not shocked.

Good music. Bad man. I can't mourn a child molester.

Plus, his career died many a year ago.

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Good music. Bad man. I can't mourn a child molester.

Plus, his career died many a year ago.

I don't get why people are more upset about him than Farrah Fawcett (she died today too)...was it because his death was unexpected?  Maybe people are upset about MJ more because it demonstrates the fragility of life than they are about him being gone.

I live next to a park in San Francisco. A bunch of people just turned up in the park and started dancing to Michael Jackson's music. It seems unorganized. People are just walking by and joining in. I haven't seen anything like this happen following the death of a celebrity. Has anyone else noticed similar happenings?

Quote from: "Whitney"I don't get why people are more upset about him than Farrah Fawcett (she died today too)...was it because his death was unexpected?  Maybe people are upset about MJ more because it demonstrates the fragility of life than they are about him being gone.

It think it's because Michael Jackson's been an oddity for the past 15 years and his death just gives it an odd conclusion.

I'll be honest though; I don't really care that either of them died. I especially don't care for the two and a half to three hours of wall to wall coverage given to Michael Jackson's death when what I really wanted to know is if the Iranians actually did stage their mass protest today in the face of now violent oppression.

In case you missed it, there was no mass protest in Tehran, but all the shops have closed. Moussavi is still absent from the scene. The family of Neda, the girl who was shot in the chest by Iranian Security for having had the bad luck to have been in the general vicinity of a protest, has gone missing. Leaders of the opposition to Ahmadinejad's have gone missing as well. Some former opposition candidates have capitulated. While every other election in the Middle East has finally shown a trend away from theocracy and inching towards liberal-democracy, in Iran people are being killed and going missing. Any hopes of diplomacy are evaporating as Iran is cloistering.

-- and somehow Michael Jackson's death is more newsworthy than that.

I have five news sources on my google homepage: New York Times, Washington Post, BBC, le Monde and News. The top story on each is Michael Jackson. Where the hell are our priorities.

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Good music. Bad man. I can't mourn a child molester.

Plus, his career died many a year ago.

Wasn't he found not guilty? I'm not an MJ fan but I think you're being a bit presumptuous considering the jury was given more information than we were.

There are a few songs from his early career and late career that I like, but mostly, I didn't much care for his pop music.  And I don't think he is guilty of the intent to molest boys.  He was found not guilty, but it's more than that.  He was a damaged person, damaged by his parents (father specifically) and I think he had a stunted emotional development.  He identified with children because part of him, a large part, never had a chance to grow up.  I think a majority of the charges against him were trumped up by a family (mom) who wanted money.  The kid's testimony was extremely inconsistent.  Michael Jackson paid a settlement, but I think it was to just make it go away... he was probably advised to do it by family and counsel.

All of that said... I, too, don't understand what is wrong with our country that McMahon's death, MJ's death, and Farrah's death, while tragic for those who loved them, are more important that the state of our world.  The deaths of regular people are far more important than those of these famous people.  That struck us with McMahon died... BIG NEWS over the world scene, and his death and bio (oooo... he was in debt) was the top story all day long.

When a celebrity dies, wars, governments, weather... none of it matters, but we HAVE to have HOURS dedicated to the life of a famous person.  I just don't get it.  I'm not mourning the loss of these people, even though they had an undeniable impact on pop culture... but that's all it is... pop culture.

One of the most original song writers of our time has died. It is something to talk about. Some will mourn his passing and some will celebrate his life. Some will even convince themselves that he is still alive. Conspiracy theories will abound soon.

I used to listen to his stuff a lot when I was a kid. I stopped being interested in him as soon as he stopped making music and his eccentric life took over. I've always pitied him, though. The only possible outcome for someone surrounded by sycophants their entire life is eccentricity and borderline madness.

This is the issue I have with the western pop culture. We seem happy to elevate people to demi-god status and then fuck with every facet of their lives until they break down, which obviously leads to yet more headlines. The media always seem blind to the leeches hanging off these people.

Yep, that guy led a sad, lonely existence. I just hope his kids aren't used by the same bunch of vacuous money-grabbers.

This makes me think there's going to be a very interesting conversation happening in lines with what Dragon_Of_Heavon said:

Quote from: "Dragon_Of_Heavon"Personally I believe that it is terrible to attack the dead. He should be remembered in the light of the good he did rather than the allegations.

Maybe this should be another thread. Should we pay respect to someone when they're dead, or is that when it's best to speak poorly of them since they can no longer be hurt, but also cannot defend themselves?

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Good music. Bad man. I can't mourn a child molester.

Plus, his career died many a year ago.

If anyone remembers Michael for what Michael Jackson did outside of music, then you're a retard. He is one of the top three most important musical artists of all time, whether you want to believe it or not. The king of pop defined pop music, electrified MTV, and brought black and white people together through his music.

And he was also found not guilty.

Quote from: "Ninteen45"And he was also found not guilty.

So was OJ. Point?

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "Ninteen45"And he was also found not guilty.

So was OJ. Point?

I'm not saying Michael was innocent. I'm saying "I don't know." To be certain either way just doesn't seem reasonable when we don't know all the facts.  

Amen to that.

Quote from: "Ninteen45"

Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Good music. Bad man. I can't mourn a child molester.

Plus, his career died many a year ago.

If anyone remembers Michael for what Michael Jackson did outside of music, then you're a retard. He is one of the top three most important musical artists of all time, whether you want to believe it or not. The king of pop defined pop music, electrified MTV, and brought black and white people together through his music.

And he was also found not guilty.

Hmmmm....

so because we "remember" (as in, retain memories of) other things about Michael Jackson, like dangling his child from a balcony, admitting to sharing his bed with little boys (while in his 40s even), and his bizarre antics outside of actually performing.....

You are saying that we are retarded?

Might want to rethink your statement, there.

And your proof that he is one of the top three musical artists of ALL TIME is...........?

I'll have to give the bad news to the descendants of Beethoven, Bach (J.S., not PDQ), Liszt, Mozart, Handel, Brahms, Chopin, Elgar, Holst, Verdi, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Scarlatti, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, any of the Strausses, Sibelius, Rachmaninov, Haydn, Vivaldi......deep breath......if this seems too old fashioned and not indicative of the substantial body of work of black musicians, then I'll exclude all dead or living white people and continue......

...moving on to the narrowed down field of greatest, most influential black musical performers of all time........by the way, this list is compiled by an Ebony Magazine poll, lest I be tagged as racially biased in some way.  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _87148273/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_8_57/ai_87148273/)

Marian Anderson, Louis Armstrong, Aretha Franklin, Luther Vandross, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Sarah Vaughan, Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, Stevie Wonder, and yes....Michael Jackson does appear on the list! So he was definitely influential and a great entertainer. He appears once in a Top Three in only one category though, making it to #2 in the Favorite Contemporary Male Singer:
               
  Performer.............. % of Votes
* Luther Vandross       36.4
Michael Jackson         14.7
Barry White             11.1
Maxwell                  8.3
Babyface                 6.9


So let's not go overboard, make ridiculous statements and fling epithets of the mentally challenged kind around, shall we?

Sounds like you were irrevocably scarred by Thriller, McQ.  roflol

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Sounds like you were irrevocably scarred by Thriller, McQ.  roflol

I tell ya', it was traumatic!  

Quote from: "McQ"I tell ya', it was traumatic!  lol

Yo Curiosityandthecat I thought yours was a splendid idea so I put up the post under philosophy. It is entitled "Pay respect to the dead or is it the best time to kick them? Enjoy.

Bah!
he was still a great person and also...
http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler- ... y-michael/ (http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler-i-lied-for-my-father-im-sorry-michael/)
Now, where was I.
Oh.
 :(

Okay, I'm really over this whole MJ thing, and I guess bringing this to the top of the active threads is a weird way of showing that, but...

Quote from: "@BreakingNews"Powerful I.V. anesthetic drug Propofol, trade name Diprivan, has been found at Michael Jackson's home, ABC News reports.

Quote from: "@BreakingNews"TMZ.com reports that Michael Jackson's insurance policy at AEG for his London concerts covered an overdose but not a natural death.

I find that very interesting.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg48.imageshack.us%2Fimg48%2F3182%2Fjacksonl.jpg&hash=cbd6f46aa1e1fa96c54665a4ba46a751dbf5f8d1)
 

Quote from: "Nineteen45"He is one of the top three most important musical artists of all time, whether you want to believe it or not.

Just... no.  I will agree that he was the most prominent musical artist of the last two or three decades of the 20th century, and indisputably a great showman.  When you put him up against "musicians of all time" though, his importance is not that great.  In my opinion: A) He was not particularly innovative, but took pre-existing forms and did impressive things with them.  B) His impact was more cultural than musical, and for what he did in the realm of culture he deserves respect.  I think McQ makes a strong case for his true worth in the world of music.

As for personal peccadillos, well, all great artists are entitled to a certain level of eccentricity.  It's sort of expected of them.  It seems probable that he liked young boys maybe a little too well, but whether he acted on that in such a way as to cause them harm is not really knowable, and he was judged not guilty.  Regarding  the article (http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler-i-lied-for-my-father-im-sorry-michael/) Nineteen45 linked to about his accuser recanting, though, I would direct you to this blog (http://floacist.wordpress.com/2009/07/03/ffs-stop-sending-me-the-hoax-jordan-chandler-article/), which at the very least calls the veracity of the story of the recantation into serious question. The blog is written by a fan of Jackson's, from what I understand.
I don't blame his true fans for springing to his defense, however, and I respect the fact that they mourn his premature death.