Happy Atheist Forum

define love.
prove it exists.
because I'm not to sure it exists...
or tell me if you have ever felt love, if so tell me what it is, how it feels.

just describe "love" in the best possible way.

I know what love is....

[youtube:kks3tgul]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J9rTZJBmw[/youtube:kks3tgul]

A chemical reaction that causes pleasure, then associating that pleasure with the person and becoming "addicted" to that person for the recurrence of those feelings.
The reaction is generally set off by preformed ideals being met subconsciously.


For me it felt like nothing in the world mattered more than that person.

Falling in love is similar to a drug addiction, a US study says. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4498764.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4498764.stm)

Article about study on baby/mother love in monkeys:  http://www.paulstips.com/brainbox/pt/ho ... -need-love (http://www.paulstips.com/brainbox/pt/home.nsf/link/27062006-Scientific-proof-that-we-all-need-love)

A list of scientific articles about love:  http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_ ... istry_love (http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/chemistry_love)

QuoteStudies in neuroscience have involved chemicals that are present in the brain and might be involved when people experience love. These chemicals include: nerve growth factor[5], testosterone, estrogen, dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, oxytocin, and vasopressin.[6] Adequate brain levels of testosterone seem important for both human male and female sexual behavior.[7] Dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin are more commonly found during the attraction phase of a relationship.[citation needed] Oxytocin and vasopressin seemed to be more closely linked to long term bonding and relationships characterized by strong attachments.

The conventional view in biology is that there are two major drives in love â€" sexual attraction and attachment. [8] Attachment between adults is presumed to work on the same principles that lead an infant to become attached to his or her mother or father.

Wiki Love (Scientific Views): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(scientific_views (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(scientific_views))

I'd say that we know enough about love to be able to say it exists and can be explained just as well as any other emotion.

There are different types of love...love for a parent is different than love you feel for a mate/spouse.   When you love someone you miss them when they are not around, care for their well being, and are willing to make personal sacrifices to help the person you love.  Romantic love also involves intimate physical expressions of love.

I thought this was interesting, apparently stressing out (ya I figured that one) and not being able to turn off rational thinking can lower passion levels because it lowers  the natrual production of oxytocin.  One of the suggested solutions is to create an environment to relax that sounds like what we have traditionally called a romantic environment; low lighting, warmth, and soft music.:  http://www.saddleback.edu/faculty/jfrit ... html#relax (http://www.saddleback.edu/faculty/jfritsen/articles.html#relax)

Love is very irrational. Logically a waste of time. And since I'm so logical...

Well, except when I'm in the mood, of course.  

Teyla great questions. I strongly recommend reading The Art of Loving by philosopher and psychoanalyst Erich Fromm. It's not lengthy and it explains it better than I can but if you would rather not I can tell the main points made in there. Basically it states that very few people have achieved "true love" because people are more concerned with being loved than loving. He also discusses how there are separate forms of love yet paradoxically they are all the same.

Some more great quotes from the book:

"If a person loves only one other person and is indifferent to all others, his love is not love but a symbiotic attachment, or an enlarged egotism."

"Immature love says: 'I love you because I need you.' Mature love says 'I need you because I love you.' "

"In love the paradox occurs that two beings become one and yet remain two."

"Love is often nothing but a favorable exchange between two people who get the most of what they can expect, considering their value on the personality market."

"Love is union with somebody, or something, outside oneself, under the condition of retaining the separateness and integrity of one's own self."

Interesting. I'll have to read that book. It looks fun.

Quote from: "Whitney"Falling in love is similar to a drug addiction, a US study says. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4498764.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4498764.stm)

Article about study on baby/mother love in monkeys:  http://www.paulstips.com/brainbox/pt/ho ... -need-love (http://www.paulstips.com/brainbox/pt/home.nsf/link/27062006-Scientific-proof-that-we-all-need-love)

A list of scientific articles about love:  http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_ ... istry_love (http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/chemistry_love)

QuoteStudies in neuroscience have involved chemicals that are present in the brain and might be involved when people experience love. These chemicals include: nerve growth factor[5], testosterone, estrogen, dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, oxytocin, and vasopressin.[6] Adequate brain levels of testosterone seem important for both human male and female sexual behavior.[7] Dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin are more commonly found during the attraction phase of a relationship.[citation needed] Oxytocin and vasopressin seemed to be more closely linked to long term bonding and relationships characterized by strong attachments.

The conventional view in biology is that there are two major drives in love â€" sexual attraction and attachment. [8] Attachment between adults is presumed to work on the same principles that lead an infant to become attached to his or her mother or father.

Wiki Love (Scientific Views): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(scientific_views (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(scientific_views))

I'd say that we know enough about love to be able to say it exists and can be explained just as well as any other emotion.

There are different types of love...love for a parent is different than love you feel for a mate/spouse.   When you love someone you miss them when they are not around, care for their well being, and are willing to make personal sacrifices to help the person you love.  Romantic love also involves intimate physical expressions of love.

I thought this was interesting, apparently stressing out (ya I figured that one) and not being able to turn off rational thinking can lower passion levels because it lowers  the natrual production of oxytocin.  One of the suggested solutions is to create an environment to relax that sounds like what we have traditionally called a romantic environment; low lighting, warmth, and soft music.:  http://www.saddleback.edu/faculty/jfrit ... html#relax (http://www.saddleback.edu/faculty/jfritsen/articles.html#relax)

^^ Ditto. ^^

People seem to think that love has to be mystical to be real.  It's just biology, baby.  But it's the best game in town, so I'll grab my sweeties and float off on my cloud of neurotransmitters.

Quote from: "SektionTen"Interesting. I'll have to read that book. It looks fun.

Oodles.

QuotePeople seem to think that love has to be mystical to be real. It's just biology, baby. But it's the best game in town, so I'll grab my sweeties and float off on my cloud of neurotransmitters.

Right. The problem is we need to define what is thought to be love from what is actually love (which is very uncommon). Fromm suggests that true love is not based off of a feeling alone but an understanding of what love is. An act, or art, that is done for the purpose of loving rather than being loved. And that love is only love when it is drawn around all mankind. The feeling which you are describing is, in my opinion and illogical and dangerous one, and (again) what Fromm calls a "symbiotic attachment' rather than love.

FYI: The author is an atheist but he uses some of the more beautiful verses in the Bible to make metaphors.
He has some other deeply profound books I would recommend:

Escape From Freedom
To Have Or To Be?
The Dogma of Christ

Each tackles some interesting problems man has constantly struggled with. If you get the chance to read any by all means let me know what you think! I am a huge admirer of Fromm.

I think it's dangerous to not love.  I've loved many people and I still do.  I think it's emotionally unhealthy to try to be emotionless or to hide from love.

We evolved to love.  It's a survival strategy that makes us give a shit about each other.  It causes parents to nurture their children, children to care for their parents, people to act in defense of each other.  It causes people to help people.

 If I did not give myself to that emotion, I would not have let so many homeless kids sleep on my couch.  I wouldn't feel the need to volunteer.  No one would.  The whole concept of helping people without asking for something in return would probably not exist if love did not.  

As far as dependency goes, we are not solitary animals.  We are dependent on each other.  I think people have such disastrous experiences with love because people try to focus it only on a lover and their children and perhaps their parents.  They probably do this because people in communities no longer directly rely on each other.

We've developed all kinds of things to come between us, to distance ourselves from each other.  Most people don't know the names of the people they live next door to.  Humans are social animals, I don't think cutting ourselves off from love except for some perfect, idealized idea of love is healthy in any way.

I think this song sums up love for me, or maybe I based love on this song.
The author is an atheist.

"Without Love" by Propagandhi

"All in nature ends in tragedy
and I was the first to finally fade away
from my grandfather’s memories.
How long ‘til the day my memories of him finally fade away?
Dissolving into gray.

Is breathing just the ticking of an unwinding clock?
Counting down the time it takes for you to comprehend the sheer magnitude of
every single precious breath you’ve ever wasted?

I did everything I could.
I bargained with the universe to take my life instead of hers.
But no amount of money, drugs or tears could keep her here.
What purpose did her suffering serve?

Is breathing just the ticking of an unwinding clock?
Counting down the time it takes for you to comprehend the sheer magnitude of
every single precious breath you’ve ever wasted?

So much misery.
So much indifference
to so much suffering.
We can become tempted by appeals to hatred.
But this world ain’t nothing more than what we make of it.

Revenge ain’t no solution to the inevitable pain
every single one of us must face in losing the kindred spirits in our lives.
Lives so brief, so disappointing, so confusing.

As Cronie slipped away I held her in my arms, reduced to
“Please don’t leave me. What will I do?”
this cosmic sadness, just here to remind you
that without love, breathing is just the ticking of..."

I think that love is the single most important thing in anyone's life.

What is Christian love for God and Jesus from the words of a Christian? I think that's confusing.

Love. Temporary Madness, curable only through marriage.

Quote from: "SSY"Love. Temporary Madness, curable only through marriage.

Sorry, but this reminds me of a very old, male chauvinistic joke.

Q: Which dish greatly reduces a woman's sex drive?
A: A wedding cake.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"I think it's dangerous to not love.  I've loved many people and I still do.  I think it's emotionally unhealthy to try to be emotionless or to hide from love.

We evolved to love.  It's a survival strategy that makes us give a shit about each other.  It causes parents to nurture their children, children to care for their parents, people to act in defense of each other.  It causes people to help people.

 If I did not give myself to that emotion, I would not have let so many homeless kids sleep on my couch.  I wouldn't feel the need to volunteer.  No one would.  The whole concept of helping people without asking for something in return would probably not exist if love did not.  

As far as dependency goes, we are not solitary animals.  We are dependent on each other.  I think people have such disastrous experiences with love because people try to focus it only on a lover and their children and perhaps their parents.  They probably do this because people in communities no longer directly rely on each other.

We've developed all kinds of things to come between us, to distance ourselves from each other.  Most people don't know the names of the people they live next door to.  Humans are social animals, I don't think cutting ourselves off from love except for some perfect, idealized idea of love is healthy in any way.

^^^+1^^^

Love is never having to say you're sorry.

Or maybe not.

 

Quote from: "McQ"^^^+1^^^

Methinks people are really starting to want that Karma-esque mod, Whitney.  

Quote from: "McQ"Love is never having to say you're sorry.

Or maybe not.

 

Actually I don't think that's too far off. Maybe it's more "Love is never having to hear sorry." If an apology is needed by me to love then my love is conditional.