Happy Atheist Forum

What would God (the Christian one, becuase He is the only one) have to do to in your life to prove that He was real, and why do you think you are owed that?

What would he have to do to prove he was real? Well, be real!

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Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"What would he have to do to prove he was real? Well, be real!

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I do love when you post. Always a classic line.  

Well, a god would actually have to appear to me (and others so that I would know I wasn't just schizophrenic) and do things which are supernatural/physically impossible.

Why do I think a god, or as you are probably implying, the Christian God, would owe that to me. Simple, it's ridiculous and unjust to condemn people, a majority of them based on typical Christian beliefs, to burn in hell forever simply for not belieiving in something for which there is no proof. I mean, really, not only is it all based on taking a leap of faith, but it also hinges on taking the "correct" leap of faith, meaning the odds are against most of the world's inhabitants (Muslims, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus, etc).

I would need him to explain the problem of evil in a way that doesn't make me think he himself deserves eternal torment in hell.

Quote from: "Miss Anthrope"Why do I think a god, or as you are probably implying, the Christian God, would owe that to me. Simple, it's ridiculous and unjust to condemn people, a majority of them based on typical Christian beliefs, to burn in hell forever simply for not belieiving in something for which there is no proof. I mean, really, not only is it all based on taking a leap of faith, but it also hinges on taking the "correct" leap of faith, meaning the odds are against most of the world's inhabitants (Muslims, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus, etc).

If it were all true (which I highly doubt) it's unfair that those who lived in the time of burning bushes, men truly walking on water (magician's tricks not included,) and resurrections get to see these 'miracles' with their own eyes, while I am expected to just believe based on an illogical faith in one particular holy book.

I myself spoke to a man from Pakistan who used to be a muslim. He had never even seen a Bible before, let alone read one. The only thing he knew about Jesus was what he read in the Quran. He had a vision of a man that shown bright like the sun, and this man told him in arabic, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He did not know what it meant but he searched out a Bible and read. He became a Christian, but he had to flee his whole family out of fear that he would be beheaded. He is now in America. Did you know that hundreds of muslims are having similiar visions and are turning to Christianity. But, I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count?

three things:
1. appear to me
2. make all of cyprus's dams full in less than a minute (with water, I dont like his usuals, locusts, blood and dead kids, we dont drink those)
3.  Make amputated limps grow back without the help of science (cause they're doing experiments on that field too)

Quote from: "perspective"I myself spoke to a man from Pakistan who used to be a muslim. He had never even seen a Bible before, let alone read one. The only thing he knew about Jesus was what he read in the Quran. He had a vision of a man that shown bright like the sun, and this man told him in arabic, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He did not know what it meant but he searched out a Bible and read. He became a Christian, but he had to flee his whole family out of fear that he would be beheaded. He is now in America. Did you know that hundreds of muslims are having similiar visions and are turning to Christianity. But, I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count?

Why are they getting neato visions and not me? Am I not worthy? Or am I just too "close-minded."

Quote from: "perspective"I myself spoke to a man from Pakistan who used to be a muslim. He had never even seen a Bible before, let alone read one. The only thing he knew about Jesus was what he read in the Quran. He had a vision of a man that shown bright like the sun, and this man told him in arabic, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He did not know what it meant but he searched out a Bible and read. He became a Christian, but he had to flee his whole family out of fear that he would be beheaded. He is now in America. Did you know that hundreds of muslims are having similiar visions and are turning to Christianity. But, I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count?

I once spoke to a couple ballers who didn't agree with me, philosophically. See, I used to live in West Philadelphia. I was born and raised there, and spent quite a bit of my time on the playground, chilling, relaxing, playing basketball, you know. Unfortunately, one day after school a couple of guys started making trouble and my mother, being overprotective, got scared after I got into one little fight. She decided to send me to live with her sister and brother-in-law in Bel Air.

So, I called a taxi. When it came close I noticed the license plate said "FRESH" and some dice were hanging from the rearview mirror. I thought to myself, 'Well, this is a rare sight,' but quickly dismissed that idea. "To Bel-Air, my good man," I told the driver.

After a long drive, we pulled up to a rather stately home, whereupon I thanked the driver and sent him on his way. I surveyed my new castle and felt rather royal, and thus decided to take my place upon my throne as the Prince of Bel Air. Did you know hundreds of people are also getting in fights and moving to California? I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "perspective"I myself spoke to a man from Pakistan who used to be a muslim. He had never even seen a Bible before, let alone read one. The only thing he knew about Jesus was what he read in the Quran. He had a vision of a man that shown bright like the sun, and this man told him in arabic, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He did not know what it meant but he searched out a Bible and read. He became a Christian, but he had to flee his whole family out of fear that he would be beheaded. He is now in America. Did you know that hundreds of muslims are having similiar visions and are turning to Christianity. But, I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count?

I once spoke to a couple ballers who didn't agree with me, philosophically. See, I used to live in West Philadelphia. I was born and raised there, and spent quite a bit of my time on the playground, chilling, relaxing, playing basketball, you know. Unfortunately, one day after school a couple of guys started making trouble and my mother, being overprotective, got scared after I got into one little fight. She decided to send me to live with her sister and brother-in-law in Bel Air.

So, I called a taxi. When it came close I noticed the license plate said "FRESH" and some dice were hanging from the rearview mirror. I thought to myself, 'Well, this is a rare sight,' but quickly dismissed that idea. "To Bel-Air, my good man," I told the driver.

After a long drive, we pulled up to a rather stately home, whereupon I thanked the driver and sent him on his way. I surveyed my new castle and felt rather royal, and thus decided to take my place upon my throne as the Prince of Bel Air. Did you know hundreds of people are also getting in fights and moving to California? I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count.

Ahhh yes, neon colors and flat tops. But I don't get your point. Are you saying these people are making up their stories. Seems like a crazy thing to make up with the treat of loosing your family and getting your head removed.

I got a simple way that would not require God to do anything supernatural.  He would just have to inspire a philosopher (let's make it an atheist philosopher just for fun) to come up with an argument not only for a god but the Christian God that is so water tight that all the other atheists philosophers have no choice but to convert to Christianity since they would then know it was true.  Basically, God would have to logically prove himself.  

He'd have to be able to fake me out with the Three Card Monty. I have yet to see anyone do it live who I haven't caught at it.

How about show itself or give undeniable OT miricle style proof.

I don't get the whole "you have to believe in me but I'm not going to give you any proof to beieve in me" thing. It's like when you know your girlfriend is angry and you ask what's wrong she says "If you don't know what the problem is I'm not going to tell you" it just seems so counter productive. God for some reason needs or wants our belief and worship but won't give a single reason for it's existance, that is one of the single dumbest premisis of Judeo-Christianity.

Grow amputated limbs back... that's always been my favorites.  No floods, locusts, water/wine, or people/cities turned to dust/salt.  Those are old hat and unbelievable by anyone with a brain.

Or give Eddie Murphy a good script that doesn't involve children or flattulence.  

Either/or.

Quote from: "perspective"I myself spoke to a man from Pakistan who used to be a muslim. He had never even seen a Bible before, let alone read one. The only thing he knew about Jesus was what he read in the Quran. He had a vision of a man that shown bright like the sun, and this man told him in arabic, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He did not know what it meant but he searched out a Bible and read. He became a Christian, but he had to flee his whole family out of fear that he would be beheaded. He is now in America. Did you know that hundreds of muslims are having similiar visions and are turning to Christianity. But, I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count?

What about the accounts of thousands of scientists about the validity of evolution which contradict creationism?

What about the visions of other things seen by countless people of other religions? Will their stories convert you?

Thousands, maybe millions of people, believe in bigfoot, doesn't mean I do.

Furthermore, if what you're suggesting is that the man had never heard the phrase "I am the way, the.........life." and thus recieved such words supernaturally, then how did he know they were from the Bible or had anything to with Jesus? I'm not really buying the story.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"I once spoke to a couple ballers who didn't agree with me, philosophically. See, I used to live in West Philadelphia. I was born and raised there, and spent quite a bit of my time on the playground, chilling, relaxing, playing basketball, you know. Unfortunately, one day after school a couple of guys started making trouble and my mother, being overprotective, got scared after I got into one little fight. She decided to send me to live with her sister and brother-in-law in Bel Air.

So, I called a taxi. When it came close I noticed the license plate said "FRESH" and some dice were hanging from the rearview mirror. I thought to myself, 'Well, this is a rare sight,' but quickly dismissed that idea. "To Bel-Air, my good man," I told the driver.

After a long drive, we pulled up to a rather stately home, whereupon I thanked the driver and sent him on his way. I surveyed my new castle and felt rather royal, and thus decided to take my place upon my throne as the Prince of Bel Air. Did you know hundreds of people are also getting in fights and moving to California? I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count.

That would do it for me.  :eek:   That gives me chills......scary place.

All that would be needed is to just convince me, no magic tricks required.  Its God right? the end all be all intergalactic incarnation of Chuck Norris who can create a whole universe.  It shouldn't be hard to convince me.

Quote from: "McQ"That would do it for me.  :eek:   That gives me chills......scary place.

I'm totally from Philly. That's why I'm so Fresh. Here's me dancing:

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Only one thing: Trade places with me.

Quote from: "McQ"

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"I once spoke to a couple ballers who didn't agree with me, philosophically. See, I used to live in West Philadelphia. I was born and raised there, and spent quite a bit of my time on the playground, chilling, relaxing, playing basketball, you know. Unfortunately, one day after school a couple of guys started making trouble and my mother, being overprotective, got scared after I got into one little fight. She decided to send me to live with her sister and brother-in-law in Bel Air.

So, I called a taxi. When it came close I noticed the license plate said "FRESH" and some dice were hanging from the rearview mirror. I thought to myself, 'Well, this is a rare sight,' but quickly dismissed that idea. "To Bel-Air, my good man," I told the driver.

After a long drive, we pulled up to a rather stately home, whereupon I thanked the driver and sent him on his way. I surveyed my new castle and felt rather royal, and thus decided to take my place upon my throne as the Prince of Bel Air. Did you know hundreds of people are also getting in fights and moving to California? I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count.

That would do it for me.  :eek:   That gives me chills......scary place.

Did you ever watch the show Fresh Prince with Will Smith?  

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "McQ"

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"I once spoke to a couple ballers who didn't agree with me, philosophically. See, I used to live in West Philadelphia. I was born and raised there, and spent quite a bit of my time on the playground, chilling, relaxing, playing basketball, you know. Unfortunately, one day after school a couple of guys started making trouble and my mother, being overprotective, got scared after I got into one little fight. She decided to send me to live with her sister and brother-in-law in Bel Air.

So, I called a taxi. When it came close I noticed the license plate said "FRESH" and some dice were hanging from the rearview mirror. I thought to myself, 'Well, this is a rare sight,' but quickly dismissed that idea. "To Bel-Air, my good man," I told the driver.

After a long drive, we pulled up to a rather stately home, whereupon I thanked the driver and sent him on his way. I surveyed my new castle and felt rather royal, and thus decided to take my place upon my throne as the Prince of Bel Air. Did you know hundreds of people are also getting in fights and moving to California? I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count.

That would do it for me.  :eek:   That gives me chills......scary place.

Did you ever watch the show Fresh Prince with Will Smith?  :crazy:

Quote from: "McQ"Why do you ask? Did I miss something? I'm confused (yeah, yeah, so what else is new?).  

It could be me that was confused...I thought you thought Curio was really saying he was raised in West Philly.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "McQ"Why do you ask? Did I miss something? I'm confused (yeah, yeah, so what else is new?).  

It could be me that was confused...I thought you thought Curio was really saying he was raised in West Philly.

No way are you confused. If anyone around here gets to be confused, befuddled, baffled, perplexed, puzzled, dumbfounded, at sea, nonplussed, addled, disoriented or even stupified, it's gonna be me!

Actually, I knew he was referring to the Fresh Prince, but I also thought maybe he was from Philly originally. D'oh!

He would have to be smarter than I am.    Oh, and look like this:

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This thread made me  :)

Well, I think I'm easier to please in this regard despite my desire to be rational and scientific.  All any god has to do to get me to believe is send a black man names Xavier to my door at exactly 10:00 AM (by my laptop's time) on any given Saturday, who will continue to knock until I answer, and who will have photo ID in the form of a Michigan driver's license.  Xavier will present me with this ID and then tell me which god sent him.

Now, this isn't terribly difficult to forge even for us human beings, and none of it is supernatural, and none of it is subject to repeat verification, and since gods are generally described as being incredibly powerful, I don't think it'd be too hard for them to arrange.

Why do I think I'm owed it?  I don't.  I'm just telling you what God would have to do.  He could do a lot of other stuff as well, but it would be a lot more grand.  Now, I would think more highly of any god that actively went about demonstrating itself to people, assuming it needed that attention or worship for some reason, especially if it punishes people for not believing in it, and I think when it comes to such a life-changing choice, to invest one's being into a conception of a god, that it should hardly be made from a position of ignorance, else this god should expect lots of ignorance of its existence in turn.  But this hardly means we should expect any god to just start making manifest visits, it is free as it ever was to leave people in ignorance, though it would not meet my definition of "good" if it punished for lack of belief and then hid itself.

Quote from: "Sophus"He would have to be smarter than I am.    Oh, and look like this:

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I'll see your god and raise you mine:

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I don't think the real god, if there ever was one, would really care all that much about whether I believed in him. And if he did exist and want me to worship him then I wouldn't worship him anyway. Any god that needs to be worshiped has the mind of an insecure little boy. And there's now way in hell I'm worshipping that.

A challenger appears!

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he or she or it would need to send people online to infect atheist message boards with extremely ridiculous questions and always the same circular logic over and over and over again.

Wait, what was the question/point of this thread again?

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"A challenger appears!

Ok then:

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:D

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"Oh, don't grovel!  If there's one thing I can't stand, it's people groveling."

He must be great at parties.  

The Christian God could do nothing to prove to me that it was a God.  Wait, if it were real, it could prove to me that it was.  However, the creature described in the Christian Bible is evil and would be a demon rather than a god.  In the Bible it torments its followers, it punishes the innocent, it condemns people for things they are not responsible for (such as the actions or beliefs of their parents), it supports the most evil of actions such as slavery and bigotry, and many, many other things considered evil.  

Aside from the suggestion that it is evil that comes from the Bible, were God to prove itself real, there would be real world evidence that it is evil.  The "free will" garbage and the "original sin" bullshit only go so far.  Seriously, you allow children to be born with cystic fibrosis and slowly drown in their own secretions because two people thousands of years ago did something willful?  What kind of evil prick tortures children for their distant ancestors transgressions?  

On a tangent here - but how come the original sin was an actual sin?  Their sin was to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil - since they had no knowledge of good or evil before they ate the fruit, how could they know that they were doing something wrong?  They were totally ignorant, they didn't know about evil.  A serpent came up to Eve and suggested she give the fruit a try - how was she supposed to know the serpent was evil?  And why did God put the tree there anyway?  It's like keeping mice as pets and putting De-Con in their cage.  Why would you put something so dangerous in with a couple of innocents?

Quote from: "perspective"

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "perspective"I myself spoke to a man from Pakistan who used to be a muslim. He had never even seen a Bible before, let alone read one. The only thing he knew about Jesus was what he read in the Quran. He had a vision of a man that shown bright like the sun, and this man told him in arabic, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He did not know what it meant but he searched out a Bible and read. He became a Christian, but he had to flee his whole family out of fear that he would be beheaded. He is now in America. Did you know that hundreds of muslims are having similiar visions and are turning to Christianity. But, I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count?

I once spoke to a couple ballers who didn't agree with me, philosophically. See, I used to live in West Philadelphia. I was born and raised there, and spent quite a bit of my time on the playground, chilling, relaxing, playing basketball, you know. Unfortunately, one day after school a couple of guys started making trouble and my mother, being overprotective, got scared after I got into one little fight. She decided to send me to live with her sister and brother-in-law in Bel Air.

So, I called a taxi. When it came close I noticed the license plate said "FRESH" and some dice were hanging from the rearview mirror. I thought to myself, 'Well, this is a rare sight,' but quickly dismissed that idea. "To Bel-Air, my good man," I told the driver.

After a long drive, we pulled up to a rather stately home, whereupon I thanked the driver and sent him on his way. I surveyed my new castle and felt rather royal, and thus decided to take my place upon my throne as the Prince of Bel Air. Did you know hundreds of people are also getting in fights and moving to California? I guess the accounts of hundreds of people don't count.

Ahhh yes, neon colors and flat tops. But I don't get your point. Are you saying these people are making up their stories. Seems like a crazy thing to make up with the treat of loosing your family and getting your head removed.

I think that someone saw an exit and wanted it bad. Time for a new and better life in America.

I don't know that "God" could do anything to convince me other than use  god-like powers to take control of my brain.


Other than that I don't know that I would care even if I did believe she/he/it/they were  God.
Great let's create a planet that thrives on the death of other living things.
Sounds like some sadistic game show.
I don't think it was my choice to exist originally.

He would have to speak to a prophet.  The prophet would have to transcribe the conversation and then publish millions or even billions of copies of the resulting book.
Edited editions of said book are permissible.

The people around me would have to pray to this god regularly and disparage anyone who does not.  Prayer would preferably be to the east.

Prayer would preferably be hypnotic in nature.  There would have to be a requisite day of prayer throughout my life to stifle doubt and leave a permanent impression on my young mind.  Power hungry leaders would have to oppress me and my people in order to do implement this.
I would have to be isolated and kept away from knowledge that might lead me to other ideologies.  This god would have to keep me ignorant.  I must be taught to hate others that do not share my beliefs.

There would have to be some kind of punishment for me to fear should I not obey this god, and some kind of reward for worshiping him/her/it.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"On a tangent here - but how come the original sin was an actual sin?  Their sin was to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil - since they had no knowledge of good or evil before they ate the fruit, how could they know that they were doing something wrong?  They were totally ignorant, they didn't know about evil.  A serpent came up to Eve and suggested she give the fruit a try - how was she supposed to know the serpent was evil?  And why did God put the tree there anyway?  It's like keeping mice as pets and putting De-Con in their cage.  Why would you put something so dangerous in with a couple of innocents?

Yes, this is why the devil said (in The Devil's Advocate) that god was a prankster and set the rules in direct opposition of human nature and free will.  It's kind of like how I don't like my cat playing with my hairbows but every now and then I "leave one in the open" so she can get it and I can watch her because she looks so cute and happy when she "steals" it!  Then I go over and say "Gracie Lou!  You are not supposed to have that!" and take it back from her and put it away telling her she is on punishment.  She gives me the middle finger, and I deserve it, as would any god that would be so petty, childish, and just plain unreasonable as to care what impure thoughts race through my head or whether or not I think it's the greatest.