Title: Just signed up
Post by: ReligiousNut on January 03, 2007, 06:22:26 AM
Post by: ReligiousNut on January 03, 2007, 06:22:26 AM
Hi everyone, as you can tell by my user name I am a reliligious nut (Christian) and proud of it, but I'm not here to preach, just thought I'd get some perspectives on other people's point of view and hopefully engage in some discussions. What is the main reason why atheist's don't believe in God? Do they believe in the Big Bang, or that the universe has always existed?
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Post by: Whitney on January 03, 2007, 07:48:37 AM
Post by: Whitney on January 03, 2007, 07:48:37 AM
Hi, welcome to the forum.
I can't speak for anyone else since there is no common tie between atheists other than that we don't believe in god or gods.
But, my main reason is lack of evidence coupled with lack of a decently solid philosophical basis for belief.
Do I think the BB happened, evidence seems to point that way but I'm open to alternative theories. Even with the BB the possibility of an eternal universe, although not one that is always in the same state, is still considered a possibility; although, from what I've read, how possible has been under dispute.
I'm really not attached to any specific scientific theory of origins and really don't have the necessary schooling to evaluate all the options far enough to say what I think is more possible than the other....as far as I'm concerned we don't know how the universe got here or if it was always here.
I can't speak for anyone else since there is no common tie between atheists other than that we don't believe in god or gods.
But, my main reason is lack of evidence coupled with lack of a decently solid philosophical basis for belief.
Do I think the BB happened, evidence seems to point that way but I'm open to alternative theories. Even with the BB the possibility of an eternal universe, although not one that is always in the same state, is still considered a possibility; although, from what I've read, how possible has been under dispute.
I'm really not attached to any specific scientific theory of origins and really don't have the necessary schooling to evaluate all the options far enough to say what I think is more possible than the other....as far as I'm concerned we don't know how the universe got here or if it was always here.
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Post by: Tom62 on January 03, 2007, 09:49:32 AM
Post by: Tom62 on January 03, 2007, 09:49:32 AM
Welcome to the Forum.
Just like Laetustheos I can't speak for all atheists. I find the problems that some theists have with some scientific theories interesting from a philosophical point of view only. Since theories like the BB and origin of life has no impact what so ever on my daily life, I basically don't give a damn whether they are right or wrong. I am however rather sceptical when people claim that they know the truth without being to able to provide any facts for it.
For me it is 100% o.k. that people believe in god(s) and have faith, but I'm not happy when these believes are forced on other people. I also don't believe that atheists are better people than theists or the other way around. I try to judge people by their deeds, not be what they say or what they believe in. Should an all-loving god exists then I have all trust that he would judge people the same way, thus making it (for me) irrevant whether someome is a theist or not.
Just like Laetustheos I can't speak for all atheists. I find the problems that some theists have with some scientific theories interesting from a philosophical point of view only. Since theories like the BB and origin of life has no impact what so ever on my daily life, I basically don't give a damn whether they are right or wrong. I am however rather sceptical when people claim that they know the truth without being to able to provide any facts for it.
For me it is 100% o.k. that people believe in god(s) and have faith, but I'm not happy when these believes are forced on other people. I also don't believe that atheists are better people than theists or the other way around. I try to judge people by their deeds, not be what they say or what they believe in. Should an all-loving god exists then I have all trust that he would judge people the same way, thus making it (for me) irrevant whether someome is a theist or not.
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Post by: McQ on January 03, 2007, 03:18:48 PM
Post by: McQ on January 03, 2007, 03:18:48 PM
Welcome religiousnut
I'll echo the preceeding comments that atheists have one basic commonality in lack of belief in a god or gods. It is also a commonality shared by atheists and christians. You and we both lack belief in other gods, we just add one more to our list...your god.
Yes, the BB happened, according to currently accepted cosmological theory. No one knows what came "before", as time and space did not exist prior to it. Lots of interesting hypotheses surrounding that subject on multiverses, many BBs, etc. Regardless, the Big Bang has no bearing on human life, biological evolution, ID/creationism, etc., so I don't engage in speculation of ID when christians try to tie it to BB Theory (no, you haven't done that yet, I'm just clarifying ahead of time if it comes up).
Atheism has nothing to do with BB Theory, other than neither must have a god involved for the BB to have happened. We don't endorse it because of a lack of a god, but because of a preponderance of evidence that it occurred. Even as a christian I believed in the BB, because I knew it had nothing to do with the evolution of life on Earth.
I'll echo the preceeding comments that atheists have one basic commonality in lack of belief in a god or gods. It is also a commonality shared by atheists and christians. You and we both lack belief in other gods, we just add one more to our list...your god.
Yes, the BB happened, according to currently accepted cosmological theory. No one knows what came "before", as time and space did not exist prior to it. Lots of interesting hypotheses surrounding that subject on multiverses, many BBs, etc. Regardless, the Big Bang has no bearing on human life, biological evolution, ID/creationism, etc., so I don't engage in speculation of ID when christians try to tie it to BB Theory (no, you haven't done that yet, I'm just clarifying ahead of time if it comes up).
Atheism has nothing to do with BB Theory, other than neither must have a god involved for the BB to have happened. We don't endorse it because of a lack of a god, but because of a preponderance of evidence that it occurred. Even as a christian I believed in the BB, because I knew it had nothing to do with the evolution of life on Earth.
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Post by: ReligiousNut on January 04, 2007, 05:43:17 AM
Post by: ReligiousNut on January 04, 2007, 05:43:17 AM
I guess the reason I asked whether or not atheist's believe in the Big Bang or an eternal universe was because I'm curious as to how atheist's can explain life & mankind's existence and the existance of the universe. If there is no God, where did we come from and where are we going.
In all honesty, I acutally respect atheist's more than I do most people, who go through life not thinking about these type of questions, and prefer to live in ignorance and could care less about applying their minds to these important issues. The same could be said for many Christians who blindly accept what the Bible teaches and don't pay attention to traditional arguments against the existance of God. Any Christian who is not familiar with these arguments will get spanked in an intelectual debate with an atheist who is. Since both atheisim and Christianity clearly have elements of philosophy and logic, believers of both should be students of philosophy and logic.
"Come now, let us reason"
--Isaiah 1:18
In all honesty, I acutally respect atheist's more than I do most people, who go through life not thinking about these type of questions, and prefer to live in ignorance and could care less about applying their minds to these important issues. The same could be said for many Christians who blindly accept what the Bible teaches and don't pay attention to traditional arguments against the existance of God. Any Christian who is not familiar with these arguments will get spanked in an intelectual debate with an atheist who is. Since both atheisim and Christianity clearly have elements of philosophy and logic, believers of both should be students of philosophy and logic.
"Come now, let us reason"
--Isaiah 1:18
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Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 06:01:38 AM
Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 06:01:38 AM
Quote from: "ReligiousNut"If there is no God, where did we come from and where are we going.
The more we know the more we realise that there is so much more we don't know. Assuming a God certainly temporarily satisfies the inquisitive nature of humans...yet, historically this hasn't made much ground in are of offering the truth (ex people thinking that lightning was caused by Zeus directly).
Where are we going? Depending on what you mean by that, I don't see how the existence of God would offer an answer since predestination places a damper on free will. Right now it seems to me that the future of humanity may be relatively short (or at best not very comfortable living conditions) if we don't stop screwing up our environment and overpopulating the planet.
If you are referring to an afterlife, even believers don't seem to have a firm grasp on what really would happen....as a non-believer I think we just die. Ceasing to exist at death may not seem like the most comforting of thoughts, but it does give you a lot more reason to appreciate life while it lasts.
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Post by: ReligiousNut on January 04, 2007, 06:11:24 AM
Post by: ReligiousNut on January 04, 2007, 06:11:24 AM
But where did we come from?
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Post by: McQ on January 04, 2007, 06:25:11 AM
Post by: McQ on January 04, 2007, 06:25:11 AM
Quote from: "ReligiousNut"I guess the reason I asked whether or not atheist's believe in the Big Bang or an eternal universe was because I'm curious as to how atheist's can explain life & mankind's existence and the existance of the universe. If there is no God, where did we come from and where are we going.
"Come now, let us reason"
--Isaiah 1:18
See my original answer to your post. BB Theory has nothing to do with human life/evolution/ and the existence of mankind. We came billions of years after the BB.
If there is no god, it doesn't matter where we are "going". Do we have to be going anywhere?
Don't assume an anthropomorphic position on the Universe. The Universe doesn't have to answer to humans. We exist because of a combination of conditions that made carbon-based lifeforms possible at this present time on this planet.
We exist because we can in the current condition on this planet.
Not comforting to those who want a nice bedtime story, but that's just the way it is.
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Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 07:11:30 AM
Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 07:11:30 AM
Quote from: "ReligiousNut"But where did we come from?
Could you clarify what you mean by "we?" Because if you just mean we, as in those who are posting here, then I'd say we all came from our moms and dads have sex. If you mean humanity then I'd talk about evidence for evolution. If you mean life I'd might discuss abiogenesis. If you mean the universe I'd say no one really knows yet.
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Post by: ReligiousNut on January 04, 2007, 07:38:59 AM
Post by: ReligiousNut on January 04, 2007, 07:38:59 AM
Where did the universe come from, and if you believe in evolution, at what point did non-life come into being.
As far as I know there are only four options that explain the origins of the universe.
Option 1 The comos is an illusion;
it doesn't exist.
Option 2 The comos is self-existent
(and eternal).
Option 3 The cosmos is self-created
Option 4 The comos is created
by something that is
self-existant.
As far as I know there are only four options that explain the origins of the universe.
Option 1 The comos is an illusion;
it doesn't exist.
Option 2 The comos is self-existent
(and eternal).
Option 3 The cosmos is self-created
Option 4 The comos is created
by something that is
self-existant.
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Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 08:09:34 AM
Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 08:09:34 AM
or...option 5: no one knows. Seriously, it's okay to admit ignorance when all other options are just guesses at this point.
btw, evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life, just how life changed after it started.
btw, evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life, just how life changed after it started.
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Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 09:30:25 PM
Post by: Whitney on January 04, 2007, 09:30:25 PM
Topic split:
This thread will remain as a welcome thread. (and for people to include why they are an atheist...that info can also be found in some of the other introduction threads)
"What exactly does evidence for the BB tell us?"
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ftopic324.html (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ftopic324.html)
will continue that part of the discussion.
Quote from: "McQ"Perhaps this thread should be moved into the proper area in the forum as well, since we have moved beyond introductions to a discussion of cosmology.
This thread will remain as a welcome thread. (and for people to include why they are an atheist...that info can also be found in some of the other introduction threads)
"What exactly does evidence for the BB tell us?"
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ftopic324.html (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ftopic324.html)
will continue that part of the discussion.
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Post by: Squid on January 05, 2007, 12:49:14 AM
Post by: Squid on January 05, 2007, 12:49:14 AM
Quote from: "ReligiousNut"But where did we come from?
Africa.
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Post by: mrwitch on January 05, 2007, 09:54:53 AM
Post by: mrwitch on January 05, 2007, 09:54:53 AM
Quote from: "Squid"Quote from: "ReligiousNut"But where did we come from?
Africa.
Damn, squid, you beat me to it.
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Post by: Squid on January 05, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
Post by: Squid on January 05, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
Gotta be quick on the draw there Mr. Witch. 
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Post by: ImpaledSkier on January 08, 2007, 06:10:35 AM
Post by: ImpaledSkier on January 08, 2007, 06:10:35 AM
Besides my issues with organized religion and the inconsistancies involved, the main reason I'm an atheist is because the reason "god" doesn't aswer any of the questions to me. 'God' is just a re-naming of the problem. If one asks 'where did we come from?' One answer could be that the Universe happened, the conditions and timing were right, and now we're holding this disucssion. The answer 'god' just leads to the question who created god? and so on. We can't seem to explain either where the universe came from, or where 'god' came from, so my question to you why all of a sudden are we getting supernatural? Science can explain the timeline back to the big bang logically without the need of powers, or beings, or magic, or whatever, but as soon as a question that is unsolvable at this time arises we need to relabel is god? That just seems inconsistant to me. Many things in the past were blamed on god, or gods, or witches, or ghosts, or whatever, but slowly through time the logical explanation was found. I think it's just a matter of time until we figure it out.
Also, the idea of serving some self-centered diety for his amusement makes this life seem much more depressing than my chance at another ~60 years and pushing up flowers when it's over.
Hope that helps.
Also, the idea of serving some self-centered diety for his amusement makes this life seem much more depressing than my chance at another ~60 years and pushing up flowers when it's over.
Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Just signed up
Post by: Kestrel on January 08, 2007, 01:12:47 PM
Post by: Kestrel on January 08, 2007, 01:12:47 PM
Quote from: "ReligiousNut"Hi everyone, as you can tell by my user name I am a reliligious nut (Christian) and proud of it,... What is the main reason why atheist's don't believe in God? ...Hi.
To answer your question;
Because they are not supposed to believe.
Title: Re: Just signed up
Post by: McQ on January 08, 2007, 01:17:10 PM
Post by: McQ on January 08, 2007, 01:17:10 PM
Quote from: "Kestrel"Quote from: "ReligiousNut"Hi everyone, as you can tell by my user name I am a reliligious nut (Christian) and proud of it,... What is the main reason why atheist's don't believe in God? ...Hi.
To answer your question;
Because they are not supposed to believe.
Can you elaborate on that statement?
Title: Re: Just signed up
Post by: Kestrel on January 08, 2007, 01:36:50 PM
Post by: Kestrel on January 08, 2007, 01:36:50 PM
Quote from: "McQ"Can you elaborate on that statement?Certainly.
For brevity's sake, I'll give the super-condensed readers digest, in a nutshell version.
Because to choose to believe is a work. My understanding of my faith dictates that one cannot work one's way to "salvation".
Which means that to make belief a personal choice, allows the believer who feels that they have chosen to believe, (which includes 99 & 44/100's% of them) a position of superiority. Resulting in that unforgettable and all to familiar stink of smugness, that I'm sure we have all experienced.
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Post by: Whitney on January 08, 2007, 05:54:04 PM
Post by: Whitney on January 08, 2007, 05:54:04 PM
Kes, could you elaborate just a bit more...."not supposed to believe" doesn't seem to have much to do with superiority complexes.
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Post by: Kestrel on January 09, 2007, 01:19:56 AM
Post by: Kestrel on January 09, 2007, 01:19:56 AM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"Kes, could you elaborate just a bit more...."not supposed to believe" doesn't seem to have much to do with superiority complexes.
In an effort not to clog up the intro area, I responded to you,
here. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=4787#4787)