Happy Atheist Forum

I found a site that I thought was interesting, thought I'd bring it up over here for those interested. It's a scientific study of how prayer and religion seem to have an effect on those diseased/injuried/sick etc.  Feedback would be nice
Web Page Name (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religionhealth.html)

I'm a little bit weary of the sources it cites. One of them is titled "Alternative and Contemporary medicine". That usually means one of those New Age hippie ones who talks about spirituality and such.

Even if this test was by someone I could trust more, it fails to prove a god at work.

no, and I'm not saying it does neccesarily prove that God is at work. One could easily argue that it's the psychological effect of having hope in something that can cause a person to heal, not neccesarily prayer in itself. As I said earlier "I found a site that I thought was interesting, thought I'd bring it up over here for those interested" it was merely a note of interest, not placed here as definitive evidence that God exists, because I'm smart enough to know it isn't.

Double blind scientific tests have consistently revealed that prayer has no effect on healing.  In fact, in one that Richard Dawkins cited, people who were prayed for and Knew they were prayed for actually did worse - he surmised performance anxiety, although I doubt the study participants or leaders would have come out and said it that way.

James Brown consistently said, "I feel good!", and look what happened to him.

What happens when you pray all the time, and your cancer(or whatever) gets worse?  Do you simply resign yourself to the fact that god wants you to die?

Indeed, this doesn't appear to be a double-blind test. So I fail to see a reason to a point of interest. No offense but I don't think many of us would be interested. We've heard this before.

alright, fair enough. I found it interesting, but if you don't that's fine. I won't bother unless it's something particularily noteworthy.

There are psychological and biological reasons for some instances where people find that prayer and religious adherence "helped heal" them and they have nothing to do with the supernatural - more like secondary external locus of control, social support, and deep prayer has neural correlates similar to meditation which aid in relaxation and production of alpha waves in brain activity - the same waves found in people when they are relaxed and awake.  Couple such things with self fulfilling prophecies, attributional biases, priming and rationalization contra cognitive dissonance and you get people claiming prayer healed them.

Thiest...google heart patients and prayer...you'll find a lot of news articles about a study conducted which had results of those who were prayed for actually did worse.  Sometimes prayer "works," sometimes it doesn't....even studies trying to figure out the effect of prayer indicated that being the case when you compare them all.  For the believer, it's god working in mysterious ways/sometimes he takes the best.  For everyone else, what Squid said is a more likely explaination..

I heard somewhere that the psyche can have a positive or negative influence on the immune system. This would mean that if you believe that you will heal (either by yourself or with the help of [a] god) it becomes more likely that you actually will heal. Although the act of praying itself may look futile (for us atheists), it may actually help the person who is praying to buildup  the convidence to overcome the disease.

Quote from: "Big Mac"I'm a little bit weary of the sources it cites. One of them is titled "Alternative and Contemporary medicine". That usually means one of those New Age hippie ones who talks about spirituality and such.

Even if this test was by someone I could trust more, it fails to prove a god at work.

oh but doesnt it...

i have seen myself with my own eyes and ears the healing of God first hand

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"i have seen myself with my own eyes and ears the healing of God first hand

Wait, you see with your ears, that's some freaky deaky right there.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"

Quote from: "Big Mac"I'm a little bit weary of the sources it cites. One of them is titled "Alternative and Contemporary medicine". That usually means one of those New Age hippie ones who talks about spirituality and such.

Even if this test was by someone I could trust more, it fails to prove a god at work.

oh but doesnt it...

i have seen myself with my own eyes and ears the healing of God first hand

Great, so now I should believe because a guy on the internet said so! Not to mention one that can't even write English properly. Wow, you're a retarded little boy aren't you?

Quote from: "Big Mac"Great, so now I should believe because a guy on the internet said so! Not to mention one that can't even write English properly. Wow, you're a retarded little boy aren't you?

You should pity those who are blinded by an inability to grasp the world around them, but you do nothing for anyone by ridiculing them. Would you ridicule someone with with obsesive compulsive disorder or disassociate identity disorder? I'm sure you wouldn't.

Also, you're named after a hamburger that has been well documented to have bovine fecal matter in it. Just fyi.

Actually my name derives from a portion of my surname. I didn't catch the famous sandwich tie-in until after the fact. Leave it to a hippie from San Fran to bash McDee's. I bet you couldn't live without your Starbucks or your designer clothes.

I wouldn't ridicule the conditions you mentioned because they can't help it. This retard (and apparently you as well) can pick up a book and read. I suggest something that admits that it's fiction.

FYI, you have no idea what I should or shouldn't do. I don't have to pity anyone because I obey only one ruler: MYSELF.

I do something by ridiculing such idiotic people. I make myself amused for a few minutes while I pick apart their stupid ideas. Not to mention I got you to comment about it.

Quote from: "Big Mac"Actually my name derives from a portion of my surname. I didn't catch the famous sandwich tie-in until after the fact. Leave it to a hippie from San Fran to bash McDee's. I bet you couldn't live without your Starbucks or your designer clothes.

So you've had that screen name since the early 80s? Or you missed an international fast food icon for decades? Maybe I should change my name to iPod and suggest that it's an old nickname that has nothing to do with the mp3 player.

Are you expecting me to feel badly because I live in a liberal, and per capita more athiest area? Or maybe I should feel ashamed I don't shop at Walmart? As someone who grw up well below the poverty level, I can actually live without reasonable clothes.

I don't care for coffee. I usually drink water or juice. Would you care to try and make fun of that?

Quote from: "Big Mac"I wouldn't ridicule the conditions you mentioned because they can't help it. This retard (and apparently you as well) can pick up a book and read. I suggest something that admits that it's fiction.

It's also something that has hundreds of millions of followers. This is mass delusion. This is global groupthink.

Also, people can get over OCD or DID, which suggests they are not completely helpless. Likewise people can go from being religious to being athiest (living proof is writing this post).

Quote from: "Big Mac"FYI, you have no idea what I should or shouldn't do. I don't have to pity anyone because I obey only one ruler: MYSELF.

I can point out legalities or rules of our society (this obviosuly being the latter) and you can be wrong. If you hit someone because they are a Christian, you can be arrested for assault. If you treat someone like crap because they are Christian, you are an asshole (not name calling, but being labaled as a consequence of your behavior).

Quote from: "Big Mac"I do something by ridiculing such idiotic people. I make myself amused for a few minutes while I pick apart their stupid ideas. Not to mention I got you to comment about it.

So you lash out at people for personal satisfaction without considering anyone's feelings but your own. What does that make you, and what will be the sociatal consequences for that?

gotta respect ya Big Mac, even though I don't always agree with you, you take no shit.

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"

Quote from: "Big Mac"Actually my name derives from a portion of my surname. I didn't catch the famous sandwich tie-in until after the fact. Leave it to a hippie from San Fran to bash McDee's. I bet you couldn't live without your Starbucks or your designer clothes.

So you've had that screen name since the early 80s? Or you missed an international fast food icon for decades? Maybe I should change my name to iPod and suggest that it's an old nickname that has nothing to do with the mp3 player.

No you moron, I'm saying is I came up with it rather quickly because of my last name starting with Mac. My dad used to personalize his stuff that way and it stuck with me. I am also the Big Mac seeing as my younger brother would be the Little Mac (yes yes, off of Mike Tyson's Punchout). Either way it's a moot argument and you just wish to make me feel bad. Little do you know I feel bad for little in my life.

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"Are you expecting me to feel badly because I live in a liberal, and per capita more athiest area? Or maybe I should feel ashamed I don't shop at Walmart? As someone who grw up well below the poverty level, I can actually live without reasonable clothes.

I wouldn't let you walk around without clothes, Hippie Longstockings, because I dont' want to see that shit.

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"I don't care for coffee. I usually drink water or juice. Would you care to try and make fun of that?

I'm assuming that's rhetorical because we all know the answer is: FUCK YEAH! Can you even handle a wine cooler?

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"

Quote from: "Big Mac"I wouldn't ridicule the conditions you mentioned because they can't help it. This retard (and apparently you as well) can pick up a book and read. I suggest something that admits that it's fiction.

It's also something that has hundreds of millions of followers. This is mass delusion. This is global groupthink.

And it's just tons of fodder for my amusement. Your point?

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"Also, people can get over OCD or DID, which suggests they are not completely helpless. Likewise people can go from being religious to being athiest (living proof is writing this post).

Well in that case....I couldn't drop a lesser shit about that.

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"

Quote from: "Big Mac"FYI, you have no idea what I should or shouldn't do. I don't have to pity anyone because I obey only one ruler: MYSELF.

I can point out legalities or rules of our society (this obviosuly being the latter) and you can be wrong. If you hit someone because they are a Christian, you can be arrested for assault. If you treat someone like crap because they are Christian, you are an asshole (not name calling, but being labaled as a consequence of your behavior).

Touche, but I only obey the rules because someone out there has to use force. Otherwise I'd do pretty much as I damn well pleased. Seems like at least one of us has acknowledged the true nature of humanity and other is trying to be an idealist.

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"

Quote from: "Big Mac"I do something by ridiculing such idiotic people. I make myself amused for a few minutes while I pick apart their stupid ideas. Not to mention I got you to comment about it.

So you lash out at people for personal satisfaction without considering anyone's feelings but your own. What does that make you, and what will be the sociatal consequences for that?

Jack and Shit. It's a new sitcom coming to the shittiest station ABC.


Look, Hippie Longstockings, Can I call you that? Of course I can. HL, I have yet to see anyone else give me shit about pointing out this idiot's pathetic excuse for a post. He was challenging me and insulting my intelligence with his weak attempt to make me believe in something HE saw or more accurately, thinks he saw. He is worse than me because he spreads dangerous and ignorant ideas to weak minded people. Me ridiculing them pales in comparision.

In fact if you have beef with people making fun of these kinds of people go to www.fstdt.com (http://www.fstdt.com) and then start whining about how "mean" we are over there. Dipshit pot smoking granola goy.

Quote from: "Willravel"It's also something that has hundreds of millions of followers. This is mass delusion. This is global groupthink.

Affirmative.

Quote from: "Willravel"So you've had that screen name since the early 80s? Or you missed an international fast food icon for decades? Maybe I should change my name to iPod and suggest that it's an old nickname that has nothing to do with the mp3 player.

Not gonna lie, that was pretty funny.

Quote from: "Big Mac"

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"

Quote from: "Big Mac"I'm a little bit weary of the sources it cites. One of them is titled "Alternative and Contemporary medicine". That usually means one of those New Age hippie ones who talks about spirituality and such.

Even if this test was by someone I could trust more, it fails to prove a god at work.

oh but doesnt it...

i have seen myself with my own eyes and ears the healing of God first hand

Great, so now I should believe because a guy on the internet said so! Not to mention one that can't even write English properly. Wow, you're a retarded little boy aren't you?

i wish to ask you somthin... and point somthin out.. first off how can you deny somthin that really happened....

seconedly who cares if i can write english properly... if you can not write a good reply and must insult me because i am christian then you my friend have some problems... that is a huge difference between me and athiests... (most of them) i show love and kindness and athiests show hatered and despise

Quote from: "Big Mac"No you moron, I'm saying is I came up with it rather quickly because of my last name starting with Mac. My dad used to personalize his stuff that way and it stuck with me. I am also the Big Mac seeing as my younger brother would be the Little Mac (yes yes, off of Mike Tyson's Punchout). Either way it's a moot argument and you just wish to make me feel bad. Little do you know I feel bad for little in my life.

I must be a moron. I didn't realize I was actually 'hippie longstalkings' for 24 hours. Either way, it's a moot point.

Quote from: "Big Mac"I wouldn't let you walk around without clothes, Hippie Longstockings, because I dont' want to see that shit.

Fear of homosexuals comes from the Judeo/Christian non-secular world.

Quote from: "Big Mac"I'm assuming that's rhetorical because we all know the answer is: FUCK YEAH! Can you even handle a wine cooler?

You accuse me of being a yuppie and then ask me if I can handle a wine cooler? Pick a stereotype. Rich yuppies aren't going to know what a wine cooler is. They'd probably have to look it up on wikipedia.

Quote from: "Big Mac"And it's just tons of fodder for my amusement. Your point?

Anger, resentment, hatred. The really funny part is that while you don't like Christians, you are the fodder for their hatred of athiests. You give them power by justifying their fear and hatred of athiesm. Good job.

Quote from: "Hippie Longstockings"

Quote from: "Big Mac"FYI, you have no idea what I should or shouldn't do. I don't have to pity anyone because I obey only one ruler: MYSELF.

I can point out legalities or rules of our society (this obviosuly being the latter) and you can be wrong. If you hit someone because they are a Christian, you can be arrested for assault. If you treat someone like crap because they are Christian, you are an asshole (not name calling, but being labaled as a consequence of your behavior).

Quote from: "Big Mac"Touche, but I only obey the rules because someone out there has to use force. Otherwise I'd do pretty much as I damn well pleased. Seems like at least one of us has acknowledged the true nature of humanity and other is trying to be an idealist.

Again, you're exhibiting the stereotypcail immoral athiest thought process and proving all the bible banging, holier-than-thou types of Christians right. Is that really something you like doing?  

Quote from: "Big Mac"Look, Hippie Longstockings, Can I call you that? Of course I can. HL, I have yet to see anyone else give me shit about pointing out this idiot's pathetic excuse for a post. He was challenging me and insulting my intelligence with his weak attempt to make me believe in something HE saw or more accurately, thinks he saw. He is worse than me because he spreads dangerous and ignorant ideas to weak minded people. Me ridiculing them pales in comparision.

In you uninformed opinion, sure. While this lets me in on the dissapointing inability of the moderationon this site, it moreso shows me what some athiests are capable of (bigotry) and incapable of (thinking before they speak). You who preach about the ignorance of the Christians are their greatest weapon. You remind me of terrorists trying to get western forces out of the Middle East by blowing up a tank. They don't think. What actually happens is their death is used as a rallying point by some drunk-with-power american politician to send more troops and to exploit their country all the more. They actually serve to help those they hate. You, Big Mac, serve the Christians more than the crazyclowns of the world that you hate. Instead of being a white night for them, you are a black knight against them, the image of which inspires ten more white knights. Of course you're too busy being cruel to people you'll never meet to realize that.

When I grew up there was a kid down the street that would torture animals for fun. Cats, dogs, rabbits. He was generally ignored and only slapped on the wrist when one of the animals died. When he was high school, his poor behavior escilated. He broke laws, when convenient. He didn't ever feel remorse. He raced in his POS car and often put others in serious danger. It turns out he had ASPD.

You're torturing animals right now, Big Mac. While I couldn't say whether or not you have ASPD, you have symptoms (failure to conform to social norms, irratability and aggressiveness, and lack of remorse).

Quote from: "Big Mac"In fact if you have beef with people making fun of these kinds of people go to www.fstdt.com (http://www.fstdt.com) and then start whining about how "mean" we are over there. Dipshit pot smoking granola goy.

Mean? No, just ignorant. I'm just waiting for you to escilate this to threats of physical harm. That's where you're going next, right? Maybe you threaten to "trace my comptuer" or something. There are two types of people on the internet: smart people, and 14 year olds who watch Adult Swim too much and think they are kings of the world. How tiny your kingdom, how insignificant your rule.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"i wish to ask you somthin... and point somthin out.. first off how can you deny somthin that really happened....

What happened? If I can offer a reasonable explaination, are you able to ascimilate that information into your faith? I'm just curious.

So you, Hippie Longstockings, are claiming that I am a sociopath? Interesting, but very incorrect, assumption. Mostly I'm pushing your buttons because you are coming at me like you know me some how. I have those "symptoms" to a small degree. Personally I view remorse as forced dishonesty. Most people are really self-serving and will only show remorse when it will get them out of trouble.

Don't yuppies drink that sissy wine cooler crap? Or is that just white trash? Personally I wouldn't know because I prefer either vodka or beer. Sorry if I'm just a normal masculine male that you cannot handle and have to accuse of being a homophobe (I just don't like seeing penis, excuse me!). Personally I think you are jealous because I just ooze testosterone and I eat rocks and shit gun powder.

See that right there is my way of messing with you. The reason everyone else is basically ignoring it is the simple fact they know I am not serious. You just need to go back to eating some tofu and your drum circle. I'm going to go set a school bus on fire or something that's extremely anti-social. I was cured alright......

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usask.ca%2Fart%2Fdigital%2F2000%2Fhildebrand%2Falex.jpg&hash=5afd64ee6da2edd261b150f8b831c6f6d69f50cb)

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"i wish to ask you somthin... and point somthin out.. first off how can you deny somthin that really happened....

Documentation of this claim backed by reliable and verifiable sources? If you cannot provide such proof, then don't expect anyone here to just automatically believe you. I need proof not hearsay or what you think you saw.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"seconedly who cares if i can write english properly... if you can not write a good reply and must insult me because i am christian then you my friend have some problems... that is a huge difference between me and athiests... (most of them) i show love and kindness and athiests show hatered and despise

I'm insulting you because your blatant disregard for proper English is rather insulting. I am NOT insulting you because you are a Christian, I'm doing so because you are a moron. Stop trying to appeal to me emotionally, it is not going to work. Either start writing like a normal adult or expect to be face ridicule whenever you make such claims.

Quote from: "Big Mac"

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"i wish to ask you somthin... and point somthin out.. first off how can you deny somthin that really happened....

Documentation of this claim backed by reliable and verifiable sources? If you cannot provide such proof, then don't expect anyone here to just automatically believe you. I need proof not hearsay or what you think you saw.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"seconedly who cares if i can write english properly... if you can not write a good reply and must insult me because i am christian then you my friend have some problems... that is a huge difference between me and athiests... (most of them) i show love and kindness and athiests show hatered and despise

I'm insulting you because your blatant disregard for proper English is rather insulting. I am NOT insulting you because you are a Christian, I'm doing so because you are a moron. Stop trying to appeal to me emotionally, it is not going to work. Either start writing like a normal adult or expect to be face ridicule whenever you make such claims.

you see... athiests require (when their belifs are threatened) unbelievably large amounts of documentation and "proof"

when the next day they could here a story and believe every bit of it...

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"i wish to ask you somthin... and point somthin out.. first off how can you deny somthin that really happened....

seconedly who cares if i can write english properly... if you can not write a good reply and must insult me because i am christian then you my friend have some problems... that is a huge difference between me and athiests... (most of them) i show love and kindness and athiests show hatered and despise

Crazy, maybe I'm missing a post somewhere but you never even said what happened...just that you saw it with your own eyes.  Am I to just take your word for something miraculous happening?  If so, do you believe every person who says that they were abducted by aliens or do you demand a bit of evidence first?  I would hope you aren't so naive that  you'd just believe anything someone tells you is true.

Secondly...do you know most atheists?  I doubt it.  I would suggest if you don't want to be stereotyped that you don't do the same to others.  If you take a look at the introductions forum you'll noticed that it isn't common for someone to be insulted here "just because [they] are a Christian."

Not that I condone insulting people, but you weren't insulted for being a Christian...you were insulted for making a baseless claim.  If an atheist did the same they'd probably get insulted...in fact that has happened in a recent thread.  So, please save the persecution complex for elsewhere and if you so desire, return to discuss how you know miracles occur.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"you see... athiests require (when their belifs are threatened) unbelievably large amounts of documentation and "proof"

when the next day they could here a story and believe every bit of it...

I like how you respond to the guy that insulted you, but you ignored the guy defending you. Lol.

As an athiest, my beliefs have never been threatened because I don't have beliefs to speak of. I have knowledge. Knowledge can't be threatened, but only rexamined and improved. If I'm wrong about something, and I see proof of that, then I am comfortable in changing my view of the world to incorporate the new information. That's probably difficult for religous people, as there are no new books of the bible coming out to explain gay marriage or abortion. You have to stick with thousand year old morality which, frankly, isn't applicable any more.

Proof is what athiests thrive on because we live in a world where our knowledge of the world is based on proof. You might say that we live in an athiest heaven. Heh.

Again I will ask: what reasonable explaination is there for the existence of a supernatural overlord? you say: "How can you deny something that really happened?" What really happened? What are you talking about?

Well willie, Hell for any religion is New Jersey. That or Iowa.

Quote from: "Big Mac"Well willie, Hell for any religion is New Jersey. That or Iowa.

Hey! Jersey isn't so bad.
Except for the smell. And crime. And medical waste on the beaches. And traffic. And Jeremy Shockey. And Camden, Trenton, East Orange, and Atlantic City.

Screw it. You're right. Hell is Jersey.

Not to mention everyone in Jersey spake American incorrectly.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"you see... athiests require (when their belifs are threatened) unbelievably large amounts of documentation and "proof"

when the next day they could here a story and believe every bit of it...

I didn't realize your ass became a library, because I'm assuming you pulled out this tidbit from there.

All I am demanding is some documented evidence that conclusively shows that you witnessed real healing from faith. Saying that you "saw it myself" doesn't cut it with me or any self-respecting skeptic. Hell, if that were the case then the James Randi Education Foundation would be bankrupt and in severe debt.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"you see... athiests require (when their belifs are threatened) unbelievably large amounts of documentation and "proof"

To quote Carl Sagan, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

But as for your statement, I see it the other way around.  It's not so much that atheists require "unbelievably large amounts" of evidence of a god, it's that Christians (& co.) require unbelievably small amounts of it.  What others would attribute to luck is instantly spun as "God's work" by the religious.  This method of reasoning is aptly summarized in the following quote from the very amusing list of "proofs of God's existence" found here (http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm):

ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPLETE DEVASTATION
(1) A plane crashed killing 143 passengers and crew.
(2) But one child survived with only third-degree burns.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

Quote from: "Big Mac"I eat rocks and shit gun powder.

That gives new meaning to explosive diarrhea.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"

Quote from: "Big Mac"

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"i wish to ask you somthin... and point somthin out.. first off how can you deny somthin that really happened....

Documentation of this claim backed by reliable and verifiable sources? If you cannot provide such proof, then don't expect anyone here to just automatically believe you. I need proof not hearsay or what you think you saw.

Quote from: "crazycycoclown"seconedly who cares if i can write english properly... if you can not write a good reply and must insult me because i am christian then you my friend have some problems... that is a huge difference between me and athiests... (most of them) i show love and kindness and athiests show hatered and despise

I'm insulting you because your blatant disregard for proper English is rather insulting. I am NOT insulting you because you are a Christian, I'm doing so because you are a moron. Stop trying to appeal to me emotionally, it is not going to work. Either start writing like a normal adult or expect to be face ridicule whenever you make such claims.

you see... athiests require (when their belifs are threatened) unbelievably large amounts of documentation and "proof"

when the next day they could here a story and believe every bit of it...

Apparently you didn't read what I said earlier, you should do that.  Do I need to cite references for you?  Or even explain all the references that article cites?

Hey!  NJ is a nice place.  We just hide all the good spots from outsiders so they don't move in here.

Haha, keep telling yourself that. And Texas is a haven for Gays!

Quote from: "Theist"I found a site that I thought was interesting, thought I'd bring it up over here for those interested. It's a scientific study of how prayer and religion seem to have an effect on those diseased/injuried/sick etc.  Feedback would be nice
Web Page Name (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religionhealth.html)

Should we not ask god for help?

If you are ordinary person you should follow the rules of your deeds and nature. If you are a devotee, even then, you should not ask God for help. Your devotion must not aspire any result. You are asking God for help means that you want God to violate his own natural rules. The impression of millions of angles and sages is disturbed if God violates his own rules. That will give a poor impression on God. You are putting God to inconvenience by forcing him to use his supernatural power. Whether you are a devotee or not, you must always try to solve your problems by putting your best effort.

If you fail, even then, do not ask God to help you. Then, you think that it is your fate and worship God as usual. Arjuna was fighting with his grandfather, Bhishma. Arjuna was not putting up his best effort to kill Bhishma. He was having sympathy to Bhishma, who has brought up Arjuna. Noting this, Krishna took His Sudarshana chakra and ran to kill Bhishma. That means the Lord tried to solve the problem of Arjuna through His divine power. Arjuna did not agree to this and forced Krishna to stop, because Arjuna knew about his inadequate effort. But when Sindhava was to be killed, Arjuna tried his best, because Arjuna took an oath to kill Sindhava before sunset and otherwise he promised that he would enter the fire.

Since the sunset took place apparently due to the Maya of Krishna, Arjuna stopped fighting and wanted to enter the fire. He was just going to jump into the fire but he never asked for help. He thought that was his fate. Therefore, the Lord helped him secretly. Therefore, if you put your best effort, still fail because it is beyond your limits, if you happen to be a real devotee and do not ask for the help from God, then you will be helped by the super power secretly. The secrecy is due to preservation of the sacredness of his administration in the eyes of others.

Anil, unless you are the original author of the above article then I kindly remind you that you should be providing sources instead of posting the work of others as if it is your own.  I would also ask that you stop posting things which are only composted of writings you have found elsewhere....we are all capeable of googling this type of information.  From this point on I will be considering any more posts like the above as spam....you are an individual and I would assume you have your own personal views on theses matters; let's hear it in your own words from now on, please.

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