Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.
How do you avoid the despair of a Samuel Beckett?
"The horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has developed from the mind of lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would anyone trust the conviction of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"
- Charles Darwin, 1881
Quote from: "JP"Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.
How do you avoid the despair of a Samuel Beckett?
"The horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has developed from the mind of lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would anyone trust the conviction of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"
- Charles Darwin, 1881
Welcome JP.
Why not go into the nihilistic abyss? I don't think it has to lead to despair.
Now pass me the Gin, and put on the Harry Chapin Album. :wink:
Quote from: "McQ"Welcome JP.
Why not go into the nihilistic abyss? I don't think it has to lead to despair.
Now pass me the Gin, and put on the Harry Chapin Album. :wink:
Hi McQ, thanks for the welcome. Since you seem to affirm the nihilistic destination of atheism rather than deny it, why do atheists go to the bother of creating websites and forums? Since rationality is meaningless, why not hit the Gin instead?
Atheism is not a prelude to nihilism. I'd say most of us think that being alive is a pretty cool and wonderful thing. I don't see theists becoming nihilists because they don't believe in Allah, or Brahma, or Odin, or Zeus, so why should an atheist? For myself, the removal of the fear of the unknown lifted a giant emotional weight, and made it so much easier to enjoy every moment of this one life I've been granted. No putting things off for the next incarnation, no worrying that something done inadvertently will propel me into an eternal abyss of suffering. . .all that trepidation is gone. In fact, realizing that this was a one-shot deal helped me quit drinking. Without a program or anything. Go figure.
Quote from: "JP"Quote from: "McQ"Welcome JP.
Why not go into the nihilistic abyss? I don't think it has to lead to despair.
Now pass me the Gin, and put on the Harry Chapin Album. :wink:
Hi McQ, thanks for the welcome. Since you seem to affirm the nihilistic destination of atheism rather than deny it, why do atheists go to the bother of creating websites and forums? Since rationality is meaningless, why not hit the Gin instead?
JP, one, I am not a nihilist. Two, I didn't affirm the destination of atheism as nihilism. I said, "Why not go into the nihilistic abyss?" It was a statement to put forth the option for some people to do so. The sentence after that shows that I was being tongue in cheek about it.
I also don't answer for all atheists and why they make websites and forums. Do you have some problem with atheist websites and forums? Are you sorry they exist? I'm not sure I follow your whole message.
Quote from: "Faylen"Atheism is not a prelude to nihilism. I'd say most of us think that being alive is a pretty cool and wonderful thing. I don't see theists becoming nihilists because they don't believe in Allah, or Brahma, or Odin, or Zeus, so why should an atheist? For myself, the removal of the fear of the unknown lifted a giant emotional weight, and made it so much easier to enjoy every moment of this one life I've been granted. No putting things off for the next incarnation, no worrying that something done inadvertently will propel me into an eternal abyss of suffering. . .all that trepidation is gone. In fact, realizing that this was a one-shot deal helped me quit drinking. Without a program or anything. Go figure.
I would echo this sentiment as well. Although I do agree with some aspects of the definition of nihilism ("...the world, especially past and current human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose...) in the broad sense of the entire Universe vs.
homo sapiens only.
I don't believe that the Universe owes us any explanation for its or our existence, or any explanation of the meaning of life, matter, laws of physics, etc. It just is, and I'm happy with that.
That does not mean I'm not for trying to understand the way everything works, or how it came into being. That's the pursuit I find worthwhile.
generally speaking why, as a christian or whatever religion you may be, do you not go out and kill all the non-believers that you can't trick into converting?
Your generalization is laughable at best. Do you actually believe morality is a concept created by religion, especially the Abrahamic religions?
Some non-deity philosophical belief systems you should look into that have a moral code, as well as an ethical code, include Confucianism, Stoicism, and Humanism.
I also ask if you believe that the Abrahamic religions are completely moral? And do I really need to list reasons why they are not?
Quote from: "donkeyhoty"generally speaking why, as a christian or whatever religion you may be, do you not go out and kill all the non-believers that you can't trick into converting?
Your generalization is laughable at best. Do you actually believe morality is a concept created by religion, especially the Abrahamic religions?
Some non-deity philosophical belief systems you should look into that have a moral code, as well as an ethical code, include Confucianism, Stoicism, and Humanism.
I also ask if you believe that the Abrahamic religions are completely moral? And do I really need to list reasons why they are not?
Whom are you addressing?
Quote from: "McQ"Whom are you addressing?
obviously, JP, the original poster. I think we're pretty clear as to who believes in god on this post.
Quote from: "donkeyhoty"Quote from: "McQ"Whom are you addressing?
obviously, JP, the original poster. I think we're pretty clear as to who believes in god on this post.
I thought that's who you meant, but wanted to be clear. Thanks.
Quote from: "JP"Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.
On the contrary - it makes the life we have the most precious thing there is. Something to be enjoyed and take active pleasure in experiencing.
I always think that those that ask the nihilism question are having a problem with scale.
A particle physicist would tell you that the desk in front of you is almost all empty space. Do we sit around worrying about that? No, at the scale we live at the desk is perfectly solid.
Now, the universe may have no meaning at the ultimate scale, but at the scale we live at it has tons of meaning. Just because the sun will explode in a few million years does not mean we can not find meaning in this day.
I dunno about you all, but I'm ready for some chewing gum:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcphee.com%2Fpixlarge%2F11505.jpg&hash=72a4ebcb384baf37284374a3b428ddb51985b0ae)
... from my favorite oddball company:
http://www.mcphee.com/items/11505.html (http://www.mcphee.com/items/11505.html)
Love it! (And so nice to see after arguing with nihilists on AN!)
Archie McPhee catalogue?
Quote from: "Faylen"Archie McPhee catalogue?
Oh yeah... they're a hoot-n-a-half!
Where else can you buy a rubber chicken, a chair shaped like a hand, and a pair of wind-up walking lederhosen?
(plus, there's a new product coming out soon featuring my voice...)
/end thread-jack
//slashies
///wheee!
Thanks for the link. I only wish I had seen that stuff before Christmas! Oh well, there's always next year.
Quote from: "JP"Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.
How do you avoid the despair of a Samuel Beckett?
"The horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has developed from the mind of lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would anyone trust the conviction of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"
- Charles Darwin, 1881
Here's a link for you, if you're looking for something positive but atheistic:
http://www.freewebs.com/thebgma/a32inspiration.html (http://www.freewebs.com/thebgma/a32inspiration.html)
Kinda the opposite of nihilism, I guess...
i AM a nihilist.
in the sense that i believe there is nothing after death, nothing in this life matters at the end of the day, and that is all there is to it =]
this is NOT a depressing thing.
Nothing matters? theres no point to anything? no point me being alive?
AWESOME!
therefore, i might as well enjoy the chemically formed 'emotions' and sense of pleasure i can experience in my short life... and have a bloody good time whilst i can. I find the fact that nothing matters a joyous thing, it means i can literally just enjoy myself, it means whenever something sad happens, i can drag myself out of sadness with the REASSURANCE that none of it will matter in the end.
nihilism is cheerful =D
Quote from: "Marke"I always think that those that ask the nihilism question are having a problem with scale.
A particle physicist would tell you that the desk in front of you is almost all empty space. Do we sit around worrying about that? No, at the scale we live at the desk is perfectly solid.
Now, the universe may have no meaning at the ultimate scale, but at the scale we live at it has tons of meaning. Just because the sun will explode in a few million years does not mean we can not find meaning in this day.
*adds to favorite message-board quotes*
Personally, I have a hard time with nihilism. I suppose it makes me hesitant and makes making decisions hard. Explained: If I have a choice to make, and there is no higher power setting me on a course, no real system of values that exists, and no point to anything in the end, then what is guiding me? How will I know I made the right choice? What if every choice I ever made is wrong?
Supposing that there is no real moral system besides those that people, societies, civilizations and nation-states have made up, then what is to stop one from becoming a completely self-serving person? To some extent, I think that a lot of people have done this, and walk a thin line between what's legal and what's not. This is different from what is desirable, where people cross the line all the time. However, looking at the way that some religious people act, it seems that maybe they are even worse acting. I find it difficult to believe that some of these people actually believe in the religions they say they do.
The meaning that I find is what exists in my life, what I find interesting and what makes me care. For example, if a government project wanted to build a highway which would require the demolition of many homes in your community, I think even a nihilist would care and maybe even take action since unless he/she decides to move, then the whole neighbourhood gets degraded.
Quote from: "saturnine"If I have a choice to make, and there is no higher power setting me on a course, no real system of values that exists, and no point to anything in the end, then what is guiding me? How will I know I made the right choice? What if every choice I ever made is wrong?
1) You, and society at large, are the guides. 2) Once again, you, and society at large, decides if you made the right choice, insofar as there is a "right" choice. 3) So what.
If we take a more existensialist path to this topic then the only determinate of meaning in your life is you. There is no one but you who is responsible for your actions. Meaning in your life is determined by you and your actions and responses to the world around you. etc. etc.
Quote from: "JP"Generally speaking, how do atheists avoid descending into the nihilistic abyss? If God does not exist, if all we are are meat machines - produced by cosmic accidents - which are here today and gone to oblivion tomorrow, if all of existence is utterly meaningless, why debate atheism? The "truth" or "falsity" of atheism is meaningless. Rationality is irrational. Morality is convention. Purpose is delusional.
How do you avoid the despair of a Samuel Beckett?
"The horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has developed from the mind of lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would anyone trust the conviction of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"
- Charles Darwin, 1881
Oh yeah, when I first turned atheist, I started smoking a lot of crack, drowning kittens and raping the elderly. Those were the good ol’ days! I don’t do that kind of stuff anymore, I really hated all the jail time.