Happy Atheist Forum

Of all the forums I visit, I think this forum has the highest average rate of self-reflection, and is probably one of the smartest. Ah.... my ego... so good...  

What steps do you take to avoid having an inflated ego based on your intellect? Certainly there are some very smart cookies around here, and I myself know that things like self esteem issues and uncertainty can play into creating a wall with your intellect, to guard your true and vulnerable self. Ultimately, I've found this to be dangerous in forming and maintaining a healthy relationship with others and even yourself.

When I catch myself looking down my nose at someone for saying, thinking, or doing something I deem stupid, I try to bear in mind that, first off, I might be wrong. It's not about fostering uncertainty, but rather about intellectual honesty. I also have to question why I am having an attitude with this person. Am I feeling uneasy about something? Maybe I had an ego body-blow recently and the snobbery is the scab to that wound. Does anyone deserve to be mistreated for simply making an innocent logical error? I don't think so.

How about you?

Good topic Will.

As they say, "pride goeth befor a fall".

I think of the scene from the movie Excalibur (1981), where Merlin is trying to catch a fish with his bare hands.  He catches it, it wriggles free, knocks him off balance and into the stream.  He says "Remember, there's always something cleverer than yourself."

There is a massive amount of stuff that I just don't know.  By comparison, the stuff I do know seems pretty small.  I enjoy having that sense of wonder and discovery - and I think those are lost when I believe myself to be smarter, better, or more talented than others.

I will say that I am above average in many ways, but "there's always something cleverer than yourself".

It also comes down to comparisons.  Once you start comparing yourself to others in order to deem your own worth, you'll often come up disappointed (or become delusional).  Better to do your best and be proud of who you are... isn't that enough?

Ramblin' JoeActor

Quote from: "joeactor"I enjoy having that sense of wonder and discovery - and I think those are lost when I believe myself to be smarter, better, or more talented than others.

Very wise.

Patience truly is a virtue. The ability to be patient with others, regardless of who is "right" or "wrong" is something many of us never learn. I struggle with this on a daily basis with the women I date, the people I work with, and the clients I work for.

Patience and understanding. Or maybe "understanding" isn't the right word. But attempting to understand. Honestly attempting to understand and sympathize with others - We're all from different places, backgrounds, ethnicities. Who knows what rode any of us have travelled to arrive where we are.

Patience breaks down walls, and builds new worlds.

Who says I stave it off?  

This is actually one of my flaws. I think relising that it is infact a flaw helps to temper my ego over it. I also try to remind myself that no matter how much I know, or think I know, I am overwhelming ignorant when it comes to all avalible knowledge. I also like to keep in mind that becase I may  have superior knowldge on a subject it does not make me superior. I often struggle and sometimes only realise with hind sight what an ass I was.

Will, this is a good topic. I find that embracing your intellect can help you live with being better than everyone around you, much in the way that Khan did in "Space Seed".  ;)

I have to remember that even though I know I'm correct from the standpoint of pure facts, I may be wrong in attitude. I was in those shoes and should never forget that I was one of those people that I have so little patience for now.

Ideally, we are able to balance our confidence in ourselves with the ability to keep from over-inflating our egos. But it's hard to do, and if you spend all your time wondering about it, you really don't go anywhere, you just stay stuck in a loop.

There is an ancient Asian game called Go (igo, wei qi, baduk) that I've played for a long time. If you are receptive to it's lessons, it teaches many virtues, one of the most prominent among them is humility.
 
A willingness to learn helps a  lot, too.  Just because somebody is patently a dolt does not mean there is nothing they can teach you, if you can resist dismissing them out of hand.

The simple fact is that the truly superior intellect is aware of just how much there is to know and understand in life, and how small a percentage of that will ever be possessed by any one person.  Fatuous self-congratulatory intellectual pride is often an impediment to seeking and achieving greater knowledge and understanding.  Thus, the intelligent person who is not too proud of their intellect is ahead of the game.     One very important thing to keep in mind is that intelligence does not equal wisdom.  By wisdom, I mean a perceptive understanding of what matters in life, and how those values relate to each other.  Intelligence can help in achieving wisdom, but arrogant intelligence really can get in the way.  Value wisdom over intellectual brilliance, and you will not often go wrong, in my opinion.  I know this comes off sounding like platitudes, but even Polonius said a few worthwhile things.

I have a hard time even inflating my ego. Perhaps it is due to being the youngest of 3 boys in my family, but I have a hard time telling myself that I'm smarter than a lot of people. I consider myself to be completely average. Same goes for my looks, athletic abilities, and just about everything else. I guess it could be called low self-esteem. In fact, quite often I feel as though I'm at the lower end of the intelligence scale, even though I'm pretty sure that's not a fair assessment.
I will have people tell me ego-boosting statements, but they tend to slip in one ear and out the other.

This is actually something I have been working on getting over, because it was much much worse in the past.

It doesn't bolster my ego to have discussions with those with an inferior intellect, or knowledge of the subject anymore than it does to defeat my niece at Soul Calibur. What explodes my ego is when I gain the recognition of those with superior intellects, and knowledge than myself, that is what is challenging.

Besides, I think that having a calm demeanor, an intellectual curiosity, a painfully honest self-reflection, and a willingness to admit defeat when it is apparent is what is important. Not raw intellectual powers.

My wife is far more intelligent and knowledgeable than I am about most things, but she has never treated me as inferior, acted snobbish towards me, or condescended. That is what explodes my ego -- just thinking how she is genuinely interested in what I have to say, and truly enjoys conversing with me, and always makes me feel like we are on equal ground. I was a far different person before I met her -- I had barely read an entire book, save romance novels.

I find myself feeling superior to people with vastly different moral, political and social outlooks far more than I find myself thinking myself to be superior to those whom I think are intellectually inferior to myself.

Quote from: "Recusant"There is an ancient Asian game called Go (igo, wei qi, baduk) that I've played for a long time. If you are receptive to it's lessons, it teaches many virtues, one of the most prominent among them is humility.

I just started learning to play Go...  Wow!  These rules are easy!  Should be a snap...

*SNAP!*
Ow!  ok, why do I keep losing?

Yeppers - humility abounds in that game.

Persistence helps,
JoeActor

Not very hard, I can just come here and I'll be amazed by the verbosity and intelligence of the posts, as well as the eloquence they are written with.  For a time, I felt a bit snobby, and it's easy to do when you seem to be the only person willing to use your noggin, but upon meeting other people who use theirs, I've discovered a huge variety of thoughts that, while I can grasp (for the most part), I never would have arrived at on my own.  I've realized that although I do think, I by no means think in the same capacity as some of the frequenters of this board.  I can only imagine what some of the people I know might say, were they interested in events, discoveries, philosophies, and even humor outside of their church.  And that's enough to keep me humble when I'm about.  Besides, I once believed a talking snake met up with the first evolved (yes, I was a theistic evolutionist) humans (arbitrary line, anyone?).  I lived logical fallacies and compartmentalizations.  I think that's enough of a reminder to keep my tongue slow to demean and my desire on freeing others of intellectual bondage rather than inflating my ego.

Unfortunately you don't have to be the least bit intellectual to be intellectually vain. But I've never viewed my own ego as a problem.

Quote from: "joeactor"

Quote from: "Recusant"There is an ancient Asian game called Go (igo, wei qi, baduk) that I've played for a long time. If you are receptive to it's lessons, it teaches many virtues, one of the most prominent among them is humility.

I just started learning to play Go...  Wow!  These rules are easy!  Should be a snap...

*SNAP!*
Ow!  ok, why do I keep losing?

Yeppers - humility abounds in that game.

Persistence helps,
JoeActor

Joe, I had the same experience with the game, Pente. I thought, man this is so easy!

Easy to learn the rules. Even easier to get trounced by an opponent.

Does anybody else have a hard time walking the line between confidence and snobbishness? (Your statement made me think of this, McQ.) I can come off rather cocky and arrogant, but I'm really rather lacking in the self-confidence area.  

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Does anybody else have a hard time walking the line between confidence and snobbishness? (Your statement made me think of this, McQ.) I can come off rather cocky and arrogant, but I'm really rather lacking in the self-confidence area.  

I don't think that you come off as cocky or arrogant. I think you come of as tentative when it's called for, and comical when it is not. Though I think that you probably hold back, afraid to come off as too rude, while still desiring to satisfy your craving to point out what you see as comically absurd. Which to me demonstrates a healthy amount of self-examination, as well as a comprehension of both your position, and the position of who you are responding to.

Quote from: "Hitsumei"I don't think that you come off as cocky or arrogant. I think you come of as tentative when it's called for, and comical when it is not. Though I think that you probably hold back, afraid to come off as too rude, while still desiring to satisfy your craving to point out what you see as comically absurd. Which to me demonstrates a healthy amount of self-examination, as well as a comprehension of both your position, and the position of who you are responding to.

You don't know me IRL. :)

I often find myself holding back from a conversation just because I might sound silly. Usually more often over teh interwebs than in real life. I'm a very quiet gamer when it comes to MMO's. I have teamspeak but hardly ever chat over it. I know all the tactics involved but for some reason, something in my head stops me from saying anything through fear of being wrong. The same can be said for many topics on this forum. I simply hold myself back because I'm not 100% sure how well received my comments might be. It sounds quite vane, I know, but it really is because I'm a rather paranoid person, especially when I'm talking to someone I can't see. I use body language as much as the spoken word when communicating so when speaking over a medium such as the net, I can get quite uncomfortable. I certainly don't like chatting over the phone. I guess it stems from my need to feel universally accepted and liked. I hate feeling like I've pissed someone off.

Because of the above, I will always try to analyse what I've said for fear of patronising someone. I'd hate to feel I've come across intellectually superior in any situation. I realise I can't always control how I'm received by others but that isn't a bad thing. However, I have found that if I publicly apologise and/or accept that I'm wrong in a conciliatory way, it garners a lot of respect. People generally expect others to doggedly carry on arguing a point when they are plainly incorrect (that doesn't happen very often here, I should add). I'd like to hope i stave off intellectual snobbery by immersing myself amongst people with a greater intellect than my own. It keeps my feet on the ground.

I sometimes wish I was a bit more thick-skinned but meh, I'm happy with the way I am.

Shoot Karadan, post whatever you think and get corrected.  It's a learning experience, and besides, I typically get destroyed by anyone who isn't a creationist around here.   :D

Staving off arrogance and snobbery is really pretty easy.

I read lots of stuff written by people smarter than I am, no matter their viewpoint.

For example, I have no problem admitting St. Thomas Aquinas was much smarter than I am. That doesn't make him right on God though.

I think Thomas Jefferson was among the smartest people who ever lived, but I don't think it was the smartest thing to have affairs with slaves.

Take what you can from where you can. It takes intellectual honesty and humility to admit you learn from others, no matter how smart they are or if they agree with you.

Jim

I don't believe in 'intelligence', which makes it hard for me to claim any intellectual superiority over anyone. It's far too abstract and subjective to be taken seriously. A lot of people thrive in one area but are inept in all others. I know a lot about literature and history because that's what I'm mainly interested in. If you started quizzing me on my knowledge of science you'd probably find that, compared to most of you, I'm extremely ignorant. I know enough to be able to see through 'intelligent design' but that's easy enough to do if you listened in high-school. I try to remember, when talking to a creationist, say, that even they could very possibly be my intellectual superior in another field, they could have a higher IQ than me and they could be much more mentally flexible. The fact that someone is misinformed and/or delusional on one subject doesn't mean they're stupid. Couldn't being smart actually make you better at deluding yourself? Being able to rapidly contrive such complex rationalisations, on the spot, in the face of any obstacle must require some brains.

There are other simple things that make 'intelligence' untestable, too. Eg. suppose you ask two people a very simple, easy question: "what's 54x2?"

Person A just thinks about finding the answer and gives it immediately.
Person B is more preoccupied with figuring out what your motives are for asking them this question, what the social implications will be for a right or wrong answer and how they will act on those social implications. The actual answer is secondary and takes up very little mental energy, so they appear to hesitate.

Is person A 'more focussed' or just simple-minded? Has anyone else found that, sometimes, those who appear slow or unresponsive turn out to be quite complex thinkers on closer interrogation, able to arrive at conclusions that most people wouldn't be able to? And has anyone else noticed that, occasionally, those who appear very sharp and quick to respond are actually incredibly shallow and only think fast because they don't think much? Then again, some people are just slow because they're slow. Whether or not people have an overall 'intelliegence', I don't think there's any way to measure that unless you can a) read minds and b) ask them every question expressible in any language.