Title: So, we look dumb?
Post by: forevernewton on March 21, 2009, 09:23:46 PM
Post by: forevernewton on March 21, 2009, 09:23:46 PM
So… we look like morons.
You do not look dumb (you are smart guys, sincerely) but for us you look kind of like this:
Some one tells you about “numbersâ€, and you do not get it. Then he tries to explain to you that a number is “a mathematical object used in counting and measuring, it can be a unit, an aggregate of units or part of a unitâ€, and you just do not get it. He tries again using a bunch of different definitions, and you still do not get it. You memorize some of those definitions, but nothing happens… it is pointless because you do not see what “number†is.
He decides to use simple examples, so he tells you:
“1+1=2†… but you do not get it.
He tries to explain the concept of “addition†and the concept of “equalâ€, but you don’t get it.
“One plus one, equal twoâ€, he tells you, but you feel he is just bothering you with senseless words.
He tries with apples, leaping frogs and sticks, but you just can’t see the point of all that illogic mess.
When he goes “1+2=3â€, or “2+2=4â€, you think he is out ho his mind.
He tries subtractions, but “2-1=1†doesn’t have common sense for you. You are sure he is just saying another fallacy.
And when one day you hear him talking stuff like “a2 + b2 = c2†and “pi=3.14159…*â€, you are very sure that the guy needs medical help.
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I am not telling you are dumb for math. It is just an example to explain that you can not see what we can see. You can read this and many other posts, but you can’t really understand what they say.
And it is not that you are not smart (actually, you are very smart guys). Being smart is not your problem.
It is not that you want to scrutinize everything. Analyzing is good, and evaluating is not your problem.
Your problem is your pride.
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
The ALMIGHTY CREATOR can set you free, and can open your eyes, so you can see.
Keep being smart. Keep evaluating everything, but give up your pride and ask HIM to let you see.
Don’t just go: “OK, creator thing, open my eyesâ€, and then conclude: “nothing happens, there is no a creator thingâ€.
It does not work that way because YOU CAN NOT test the Almighty Creator, no matter how many times you try. The Creator set the rules. He won’t follow yours.
You have to give up your pride, and apply Faith.
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Jesus can set you free, and then you will see that “1+1=2†makes a lot of sense, and “3-1=2â€, “35/7=5â€, “12x4=48â€, it all makes sense! Then algebra, geometry, trigonometry, gravity, quantum leap, elements, genetics, oh man!, all those things and more will make sense to you AND YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE IT.
You have no idea what it is like. It feels cool and nice to embrace the Creator. BUT YOU HAVE NOT IDEA, AND THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW IT FEELS TO BE EMBRACED BY THE CREATOR!
NO ONE CAN TELL YOU HOW AWSOME IT FEELS TO BE EMBRACED BY THE CREATOR!!!
Jesus can set you free. If you ever feel tired of carrying your yoke, the LOVING CREATOR will be there for you, and will make a party to celebrate your freedom.
You do not look dumb (you are smart guys, sincerely) but for us you look kind of like this:
Some one tells you about “numbersâ€, and you do not get it. Then he tries to explain to you that a number is “a mathematical object used in counting and measuring, it can be a unit, an aggregate of units or part of a unitâ€, and you just do not get it. He tries again using a bunch of different definitions, and you still do not get it. You memorize some of those definitions, but nothing happens… it is pointless because you do not see what “number†is.
He decides to use simple examples, so he tells you:
“1+1=2†… but you do not get it.
He tries to explain the concept of “addition†and the concept of “equalâ€, but you don’t get it.
“One plus one, equal twoâ€, he tells you, but you feel he is just bothering you with senseless words.
He tries with apples, leaping frogs and sticks, but you just can’t see the point of all that illogic mess.
When he goes “1+2=3â€, or “2+2=4â€, you think he is out ho his mind.
He tries subtractions, but “2-1=1†doesn’t have common sense for you. You are sure he is just saying another fallacy.
And when one day you hear him talking stuff like “a2 + b2 = c2†and “pi=3.14159…*â€, you are very sure that the guy needs medical help.
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
I am not telling you are dumb for math. It is just an example to explain that you can not see what we can see. You can read this and many other posts, but you can’t really understand what they say.
And it is not that you are not smart (actually, you are very smart guys). Being smart is not your problem.
It is not that you want to scrutinize everything. Analyzing is good, and evaluating is not your problem.
Your problem is your pride.
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
The ALMIGHTY CREATOR can set you free, and can open your eyes, so you can see.
Keep being smart. Keep evaluating everything, but give up your pride and ask HIM to let you see.
Don’t just go: “OK, creator thing, open my eyesâ€, and then conclude: “nothing happens, there is no a creator thingâ€.
It does not work that way because YOU CAN NOT test the Almighty Creator, no matter how many times you try. The Creator set the rules. He won’t follow yours.
You have to give up your pride, and apply Faith.
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Jesus can set you free, and then you will see that “1+1=2†makes a lot of sense, and “3-1=2â€, “35/7=5â€, “12x4=48â€, it all makes sense! Then algebra, geometry, trigonometry, gravity, quantum leap, elements, genetics, oh man!, all those things and more will make sense to you AND YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE IT.
You have no idea what it is like. It feels cool and nice to embrace the Creator. BUT YOU HAVE NOT IDEA, AND THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW IT FEELS TO BE EMBRACED BY THE CREATOR!
NO ONE CAN TELL YOU HOW AWSOME IT FEELS TO BE EMBRACED BY THE CREATOR!!!
Jesus can set you free. If you ever feel tired of carrying your yoke, the LOVING CREATOR will be there for you, and will make a party to celebrate your freedom.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: curiosityandthecat on March 21, 2009, 09:34:06 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on March 21, 2009, 09:34:06 PM
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages45.fotki.com%2Fv1451%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2F1233219790164-vi.gif&hash=b7bd8492315ae92618a73407f5014c4556ee8de4)
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: McQ on March 21, 2009, 09:34:24 PM
Post by: McQ on March 21, 2009, 09:34:24 PM
Really? We don't know what it's like?
Wrongo, Skippy.
Some here once believed as fervently (albeit, not as insanely) as you. Don't waste your time.
Matthew 10:14 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
He skipped the part that says, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." Either that, or it was lost in translation. Maybe it was in the Apocrypha?
Wrongo, Skippy.
Some here once believed as fervently (albeit, not as insanely) as you. Don't waste your time.
Matthew 10:14 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
He skipped the part that says, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." Either that, or it was lost in translation. Maybe it was in the Apocrypha?
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Sophus on March 21, 2009, 09:40:50 PM
Post by: Sophus on March 21, 2009, 09:40:50 PM
Doesn't this count as preaching?
Anyways, I alwasy chuckle when theists offer freedom as a gift for becoming a mental slave.
Curio, you're awesome.
Anyways, I alwasy chuckle when theists offer freedom as a gift for becoming a mental slave.
Curio, you're awesome.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: McQ on March 21, 2009, 09:44:51 PM
Post by: McQ on March 21, 2009, 09:44:51 PM
Quote from: "Sophus"Doesn't this count as preaching?
Anyways, I alwasy chuckle when theists offer freedom as a gift for becoming a mental slave.
Curio, you're awesome.
Quote from: "Rules"NO PREACHING: While everyone is welcome to discuss their views in a civil manner, this forum is not a podium for those that only wish to preach. This rule applies to atheists and theists alike.
Yup.
Strike one!
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 21, 2009, 09:56:51 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 21, 2009, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: "McQ"Yup.
Strike one!
Hmmm... my strike counter must be off.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Tanker on March 21, 2009, 09:57:25 PM
Post by: Tanker on March 21, 2009, 09:57:25 PM
You still aren't getting it the vast majority of people on this forum were very ferverant Christians (and don't try the "no true scotsman" fallacy it won't end well for you). They felt the love of god, had a personal relationship with Jesus, and thought how silly atheists were, and tried to save them. Then the studied their belief, actually read the bible, figured out what they believed and what they were just told to believe ,and an interesting thing happened when they figgured out how to think for themselves they realised how illogical religion was. How freeing it was to think for themselves. I hope one day you learn how freeing it is to think for yourself too instead of parroting every ignorant thing you've been told to think.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: McQ on March 21, 2009, 10:00:21 PM
Post by: McQ on March 21, 2009, 10:00:21 PM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Quote from: "McQ"Yup.
Strike one!
Hmmm... my strike counter must be off. :D
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Lilbeth on March 21, 2009, 10:43:42 PM
Post by: Lilbeth on March 21, 2009, 10:43:42 PM
Just a funnyism.....
1+1 does not always equal 2......
1+1 equaled 10...when two of my dogs copulated once, and she had 8 puppies....
You do sound like someone preaching to us here, though...... :rant:
1+1 does not always equal 2......
1+1 equaled 10...when two of my dogs copulated once, and she had 8 puppies....
You do sound like someone preaching to us here, though...... :rant:
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Squid on March 22, 2009, 12:21:35 AM
Post by: Squid on March 22, 2009, 12:21:35 AM
False analogy, sorry.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Sophus on March 22, 2009, 01:16:27 AM
Post by: Sophus on March 22, 2009, 01:16:27 AM
Quote from: "Lilbeth"Why are theists just not satisfied with what they believe in......????
Why must they always try to convert others?
If they are successful it would help assure them of their beliefs and ease their cognitive dissonance temporarily, I suppose.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: brekfustuvluzerz on March 22, 2009, 05:10:25 PM
Post by: brekfustuvluzerz on March 22, 2009, 05:10:25 PM
i had all of those feelings throughout my teenage years. i felt god encouraging me and urging me to do the right things, and teaching me and helping me, all that shit. i felt the urgency and responsibility of the huge mission god had set before me. i felt guilt when i masturbated, and then the joy of being forgiven over and over and over again. i felt like i had a higher purpose than other non-believers. then i realized that suicide bombers feel the same sense of purpose and joy right before they blow up a school bus. you cant trust your feelings, they come from the same confused place all of your "logic" comes from. by the way, i hate when religious people try to prove their on the same intelligence level by using math as an analogy. YOU BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES! 
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Recusant on March 22, 2009, 05:39:51 PM
Post by: Recusant on March 22, 2009, 05:39:51 PM
OK, let me try this: 1 + 1 + 1 = 1
Nope. You're right, it still doesn't make sense to me.
I'm about at stupid as they come, I guess.
I would say thanks for trying, but I'm an ungrateful lout too.
NEXT?
Nope. You're right, it still doesn't make sense to me.
I'm about at stupid as they come, I guess.
I would say thanks for trying, but I'm an ungrateful lout too.
NEXT?
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Ninteen45 on March 22, 2009, 05:47:46 PM
Post by: Ninteen45 on March 22, 2009, 05:47:46 PM
I CAN DO CAPSLOCK TOO.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: NaturaLCalamity on March 22, 2009, 11:52:02 PM
Post by: NaturaLCalamity on March 22, 2009, 11:52:02 PM
Hi. My name is Forevernewton, and I am not smarter than a fifth grader.
*A standing ovation given by HAF**
*A standing ovation given by HAF**
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Kevin on March 23, 2009, 12:42:17 AM
Post by: Kevin on March 23, 2009, 12:42:17 AM
I would like to first say, I kind of like your analogy. In a way.
In that little section, you /fail. You simply gave into brainwashing preaching and repeated it to us.
Quote from: "forevernewton"It does not work that way because YOU CAN NOT test the Almighty Creator, no matter how many times you try. The Creator set the rules. He won’t follow yours.
You have to give up your pride, and apply Faith.
In that little section, you /fail. You simply gave into brainwashing preaching and repeated it to us.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: G.ENIGMA on March 23, 2009, 12:46:42 AM
Post by: G.ENIGMA on March 23, 2009, 12:46:42 AM
Quote from: "brekfustuvluzerz"i felt guilt when i masturbated, and then the joy of being forgiven over and over and over again:D
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Struzball on March 23, 2009, 07:34:55 AM
Post by: Struzball on March 23, 2009, 07:34:55 AM
I disagree with your analogy forevernewton.
When as you say 'Jesus sets you free' therefore you understand math like other intelligent people do, you're wrong.
Athiests have the ability to do sums for themselves, Christians however, only need one sum. x + y = z. They still don't need to know what numbers are, but they can say the sum is 100% correct and they can preach they can do sums to everyone, because the equation can always be changed to suit a number an intelligent person throws at them. Never actually proving them wrong.
Except for the fact that they wouldn't have a clue what a number is in the first place.
When as you say 'Jesus sets you free' therefore you understand math like other intelligent people do, you're wrong.
Athiests have the ability to do sums for themselves, Christians however, only need one sum. x + y = z. They still don't need to know what numbers are, but they can say the sum is 100% correct and they can preach they can do sums to everyone, because the equation can always be changed to suit a number an intelligent person throws at them. Never actually proving them wrong.
Except for the fact that they wouldn't have a clue what a number is in the first place.
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: liveyoungdiefast on March 23, 2009, 01:27:12 PM
Post by: liveyoungdiefast on March 23, 2009, 01:27:12 PM
*disclaimer: witty response not to be taken seriously*
a = math
b = God
Math exists inside of man's consciousness. God exists inside of man's consciousness. (c)
ac = bc
Math is part of your metaphor, God is part of your metaphor
am = bm
For the sake of shortness we assume many more of these equations can be written. C and M and all other variables have different values, leaving the only possible explanation for a still being equal to b as both a and b being equal to zero.
God's number is zero, because God is infinite and any number like 4 or 58 to the trillionth power can't express infinity. If creationism is true, the universe has to all come from this number zero. Groups of all that exist are taken from God.
7/0 .... 14/0 .... 38/0 .... and as we can see .... OH SHIT
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi608.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt165%2Fmoondancer220%2F1235429975227.jpg&hash=2a510536ebe7f797019015a229f46cf0bb6799ff)
a = math
b = God
Math exists inside of man's consciousness. God exists inside of man's consciousness. (c)
ac = bc
Math is part of your metaphor, God is part of your metaphor
am = bm
For the sake of shortness we assume many more of these equations can be written. C and M and all other variables have different values, leaving the only possible explanation for a still being equal to b as both a and b being equal to zero.
God's number is zero, because God is infinite and any number like 4 or 58 to the trillionth power can't express infinity. If creationism is true, the universe has to all come from this number zero. Groups of all that exist are taken from God.
7/0 .... 14/0 .... 38/0 .... and as we can see .... OH SHIT
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi608.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt165%2Fmoondancer220%2F1235429975227.jpg&hash=2a510536ebe7f797019015a229f46cf0bb6799ff)
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: curiosityandthecat on March 23, 2009, 02:17:24 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on March 23, 2009, 02:17:24 PM
I'll second that.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages45.fotki.com%2Fv1480%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6145789%2Fdivided_by_zero-vi.jpg&hash=3159d10ef5c89d8f89391bb24aae2967581adf57)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages45.fotki.com%2Fv1480%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6145789%2Fdivided_by_zero-vi.jpg&hash=3159d10ef5c89d8f89391bb24aae2967581adf57)
Title: Re: So, we look dumb?
Post by: Struzball on March 23, 2009, 09:30:20 PM
Post by: Struzball on March 23, 2009, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: "liveyoungdiefast"For the sake of shortness we assume many more of these equations can be written. C and M and all other variables have different values, leaving the only possible explanation for a still being equal to b as both a and b being equal to zero.
God's number is zero, because God is infinite and any number like 4 or 58 to the trillionth power can't express infinity. If creationism is true, the universe has to all come from this number zero. Groups of all that exist are taken from God.
First of all, the only thing those equations say is that A and B have to be equal. If B is zero, A is zero. If B is infinity, A is infinity. You don't have to give infinity a number to make it mathematically correct.
Second of all, you're assuming the infinite powers of god and nowhere in your post did you come up with an analogy or formula for that.
(Sorry for taking you seriously)