Happy Atheist Forum

Who would be up for a little experiment?

I would like to know just how easy it is to craft a religion and convert followers. Anyone else willing to give it a go?

What attributes would the God(s) need to be (somewhat) believable?
  I'm thinking we would also need to hit certain truths to make the over-all lie more acceptable.
What would it attract followers?
How poetic of a story/plot can you forge?

And finally.... how do we go about drafting followers?

I'm open to any suggestions.

It needs to be vague, something you can interpret in lots of ways, depending on whats convenient at the time.

Also, some form of eternal life, with rewards for people who do as the religion tells them to.

I think those are the two major factors, most other stuff is bumpf, but the big 2 seem to be in most major religions.

Tippler's Omega Point Theory is a great start, as it makes God something physical, that gives rise to us all, and can manipulate the universe at will.  It does not need to take place in a universe reflective of this one, either, as it requires a big crunch and we look to be headed for a big rip.  Alternatively, a very wise man once said that good and evil were the imaginings of man, that God was on nobody's side, as God was a force of nature, what ever brings us to where we find ourselves.  So there you already have two more sensible suggestions than what you see floating around in spite of reality.

Oh, by the way, this isn't very nice.   :D

It means "Pious Lord Jesus, give them rest," if you were ever curious, so there's something ironic about them beating themselves while asking for rest.  Perfectly fitting for a Monty Python film.  

*EDIT*

Sorry to throw a wrench into an otherwise serious thread, I'll engage in more serious discussion if this thread continue.  Could be challenging and fun to construct a religion.  It's sort of like writing a book, except you already know what topics you'll be covering.

Quote from: "SSY"It needs to be vague, something you can interpret in lots of ways, depending on whats convenient at the time.

Also, some form of eternal life, with rewards for people who do as the religion tells them to.

I think those are the two major factors, most other stuff is bumpf, but the big 2 seem to be in most major religions.

This is very, very true. Thanks!

QuoteOh, by the way, this isn't very nice.

Well obviously any followers converted would already be theistic, just not particularly religious. If they didn't fall victim to this little religion they would just become something else.

Quote from: "Sophus"Well obviously any followers converted would already be theistic, just not particularly religious. If they didn't fall victim to this little religion they would just become something else.

That isn't why this isn't nice.  It isn't nice because it's a deliberate deception, a lie apparent lie about our intent.  We would be presenting one reason to them, while holding another in secret.  They would believe us to be something we're not, and we, rather than informing them, would continue our deception until a time that suited us.  I have no objection that they would get easily led around by religion, my issue is with the personal deception.

Quote from: "PipeBox"

Quote from: "Sophus"Well obviously any followers converted would already be theistic, just not particularly religious. If they didn't fall victim to this little religion they would just become something else.

That isn't why this isn't nice.  It isn't nice because it's a deliberate deception, a lie apparent lie about our intent.  We would be presenting one reason to them, while holding another in secret.  They would believe us to be something we're not, and we, rather than informing them, would continue our deception until a time that suited us.  I have no objection that they would get easily led around by religion, my issue is with the personal deception.

If done correctly they will never know that we're atheists. Besides, ignorance is bliss. The result will be the same whether they be deceived by us or some other religion.

It's for the sake of learning.

Quote from: "Sophus"If done correctly they will never know that we're atheists. Besides, ignorance is bliss. The result will be the same whether they be deceived by us or some other religion.

It's for the sake of learning.

Bah, seems even worse now.  I imagine if we told them at some point, they'd get pissed, but they'd be a lot less likely to fall into the pit again.  But if we just wash our hands of it one day and walk away without a word, that could emotionally destroy people.  Any blend between the two presents unique issues, as I don't think there's any way with religion to "let it down easy."

That aside, I'd be for it, it's something of a creative challenge and we get a better look and feel for what makes it tick.  Sure, most of us have seen it from the inside, but that was as sheep.  

Quote from: "PipeBox"To that end, I think we should get Whitney a bullet-proof box and name Curio a bishop.

I'm totally in. Pay's good, right? No tax, at least.

Quote from: "PipeBox"

Quote from: "Sophus"If done correctly they will never know that we're atheists. Besides, ignorance is bliss. The result will be the same whether they be deceived by us or some other religion.

It's for the sake of learning.

Bah, seems even worse now.  I imagine if we told them at some point, they'd get pissed, but they'd be a lot less likely to fall into the pit again.  But if we just wash our hands of it one day and walk away without a word, that could emotionally destroy people.  Any blend between the two presents unique issues, as I don't think there's any way with religion to "let it down easy."

That aside, I'd be for it, it's something of a creative challenge and we get a better look and feel for what makes it tick.  Sure, most of us have seen it from the inside, but that was as sheep.  

Okay, so what if we just created the thing's equivilant of a Bible/Quaran and throw it out there. They can do with it what they will. We don't have to maintain the thing. I don't know. I just want to see if we can do.

Should we just see how absurd we can make this religion and still gain followers? That would be interesting.

Oh Ra, Sophus, what if the Bible was the same thing  :crazy:

Surely there's some way to decently put it to bed after letting it run a course?  I'm still interested, but some degree of control must be maintained, otherwise, no matter how absurd, this has the possibility of becoming a nightmare.  

Quote from: "PipeBox"Oh Ra, Sophus, what if the Bible was the same thing  :crazy:

Surely there's some way to decently put it to bed after letting it run a course?  I'm still interested, but some degree of control must be maintained, otherwise, no matter how absurd, this has the possibility of becoming a nightmare.   :D

I do understand what you're saying though. As much as I loathe brainwashing I would feel a little dirty if I did it myself. Still... it would be fun...

Which is why I keep reiterating I'd love to try it, but I'm not sure it'd be responsible.  Could always make a manuscript of its development and stash it somewhere, someone randomly finding the link with a publish date of before the release of the dogma, perhaps taking precaution to embed a signature, something well masked, in the dogmatic texts identifying the authorship, or give a prediction which has a definite date on it in the fairly near future, where it ought to self destruct when it fails.  Just to be safe.  Not thinking something can blow up in your face is generally the first step toward something blowing up in your face.  

I think that it is a great idea. It should however include religious diet rules, that forces airlines to serve us the best gourmet food on Earth  .

Very interesting thread.  Several themes here bring some relatively recent organizations to mind;  primarily Scientology.

  Then there's Werner Erhard's "est" and it's successor organization. The Urantia book is another possible candidate.  

The first two have always seemed especially suspicious to me.  They both appear to be pretty cynical scams.  In fact Scientology came down pretty hard on est, or at least tried to.  If you aren't careful building your religion/scam I have a feeling that they would be gunning for you too.  "There's only room for one bright shiny new supernatural swindle on this planet, bub!"

Oh, very interesting indeed! I'll try to think of a useful idea or two.

Okay. I guess it would be best to make the God unique (we'll call him Super-God for now because he's better than all the others of course). So how did he create the universe... or did he?   Maybe he didn't... that would avoid some rational arguments.

Quote from: "SSY"Also, some form of eternal life, with rewards for people who do as the religion tells them to.

We can't forget to instill the fear of what will happen to them when they do not do as the religion tells them to.

In the beginning, All was solid, 4-dimensional geometry.  And then the Geometry collapsed, and there was Time.  And through Time, God saw that there was the Universe, and He was separate from It. (too many caps?)  And God watched as Time vibrated in many directions, but predominantly one.  And God saw that the Universe had mass, and in that instant, it gained gravity.  And as time passed in all directions, but predominantly one, God saw that the Universe had charge, and carried a magnetic field.  And finally God saw that the Universe was expanding, and cooling as it expanded, and the electrons finally orbited protons, and fusion began occurring.  And God thought it was good that there were four forces, and expected no more.  And there were no more.  This, and more, happened inside the time Earth takes to rotate on its axis once.

Nicely done!  I got a kick out of that.

Quote from: "PipeBox"(too many caps?)

Not at all --- if anything, throw some random italics in there.....