Title: Ello ello.
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 05:14:42 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 05:14:42 PM
Hello, I go by "Hitsumei", which means "pseudonym" in Japanese.
I am a sort of christian. I've been hearing a lot about atheism and that on account of Darwin's On the Origin of Species publication anniversary, so I figured that I would see what all the hubbub was about. Mostly I hear about angry, militant, and fundamentalist atheists, so I was pleased to see some "happy atheists". I figured I would start here, and then work my way up to the scarier sounding adjectives.
I am interested to see what you'all talk about, and what sort of positions you hold on various subjects. I've read a couple books, but nothing beats personal interaction, and the internet makes it so easy.
I checked the rules before joining, and it said that you didn't have to be an atheist to join.
I am a sort of christian. I've been hearing a lot about atheism and that on account of Darwin's On the Origin of Species publication anniversary, so I figured that I would see what all the hubbub was about. Mostly I hear about angry, militant, and fundamentalist atheists, so I was pleased to see some "happy atheists". I figured I would start here, and then work my way up to the scarier sounding adjectives.
I am interested to see what you'all talk about, and what sort of positions you hold on various subjects. I've read a couple books, but nothing beats personal interaction, and the internet makes it so easy.
I checked the rules before joining, and it said that you didn't have to be an atheist to join.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: SteveS on March 10, 2009, 05:32:27 PM
Post by: SteveS on March 10, 2009, 05:32:27 PM
Hello Hitsumei, welcome to the board. You're right, you don't have to be an atheist to join, but we'd like you better if you were! ;)
I hope you enjoy your stay here.
I hope you enjoy your stay here.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Will on March 10, 2009, 05:51:17 PM
Post by: Will on March 10, 2009, 05:51:17 PM
I think a "fundamentalist" atheist would be what we call "strong atheist", or someone that believes absolutely that god does not exist regardless of any new evidence that might be provided. Most here fall into a category that I call agnostic atheist. We believe that there's no evidence demonstrating the existence of god, so we disbelieve his/her/its existence. It's not a belief that god absolutely doesn't exist, just that there's no evidence.
Welcome, Hitsumei. I don't think we have any strong atheists here, but if we did they'd be welcome to their opinions so long as they posted in a respectful manner.
Welcome, Hitsumei. I don't think we have any strong atheists here, but if we did they'd be welcome to their opinions so long as they posted in a respectful manner.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 05:58:51 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 05:58:51 PM
Quote from: "SteveS"Hello Hitsumei, welcome to the board. You're right, you don't have to be an atheist to join, but we'd like you better if you were! ;)
I hope you enjoy your stay here.
I'm sure everyone will like me! I'm a likable person if I don't say so myself, and I do say so myself, and just did.
Pretty sure that "fundamentalist atheist" is used, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, towards atheists that read the bible completely literally just like a fundamentalist does, and then criticizes Christians that don't. So, fundamentalist for basically the same reason.
You're making a joke with the "reality is real, existence exists" followed by "and logic works", right? Because "reality" is a descriptive term meant to denote what is real. It makes no logical sense to say that "reality is real" or that "existence exists" anymore than it does to say that "death is dead". In all cases you're applying a descriptive term for the state of affairs of a thing, to the description itself, which are not themselves things capable of occupying such a state of affairs. This is a logical fallacy known as a category mistake.
Nice to meet you, Steve, and thank you for the welcome.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 10, 2009, 06:23:47 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 10, 2009, 06:23:47 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Mostly I hear about angry, militant, and fundamentalist atheists,
Sounds like someone watches Fox news.
Welcome to the forum, Hitsumei.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 06:33:45 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 06:33:45 PM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Sounds like someone watches Fox news. :D
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 10, 2009, 06:34:56 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 10, 2009, 06:34:56 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"fifteen minutes of beaver coverage,
Sounds hot.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 06:36:50 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Sounds hot. ;)
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: McQ on March 10, 2009, 07:49:54 PM
Post by: McQ on March 10, 2009, 07:49:54 PM
Oh, for Pete's sake! Who left the gate open, and let the damn Canadians in?!!!
Fundies we can take, but Canadians? There goes the neighborhood.
Welcome to the forum. I've been enjoying your posts. Glad you posted an intro so we can get to know you better. As you've seen, we have a wide range of spiritual/non-spiritual beliefs in the forum. Have a ball!
Fundies we can take, but Canadians? There goes the neighborhood.
Welcome to the forum. I've been enjoying your posts. Glad you posted an intro so we can get to know you better. As you've seen, we have a wide range of spiritual/non-spiritual beliefs in the forum. Have a ball!
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 08:13:29 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on March 10, 2009, 08:13:29 PM
Yeah, we Canadians are a wild bunch. The world both fears and respects Canada!
Thanks for the welcome.
Thanks for the welcome.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: rlrose328 on March 10, 2009, 10:17:13 PM
Post by: rlrose328 on March 10, 2009, 10:17:13 PM
Okay, this welcome thread is a fun read. :-)
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Whitney on March 10, 2009, 10:54:50 PM
Post by: Whitney on March 10, 2009, 10:54:50 PM
Hi Hitsumei, welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: SteveS on March 10, 2009, 11:05:08 PM
Post by: SteveS on March 10, 2009, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: "hitsumei"You're making a joke with the "reality is real, existence exists" followed by "and logic works", right? Because "reality" is a descriptive term meant to denote what is real. It makes no logical sense to say that "reality is real" or that "existence exists" anymore than it does to say that "death is dead". In all cases you're applying a descriptive term for the state of affairs of a thing, to the description itself, which are not themselves things capable of occupying such a state of affairs. This is a logical fallacy known as a category mistake.
It was just meant as a light-hearted way to state that I believe some things are real (some things exist).
The word "reality" as I'm using it (and it's not that weird of a use, is it?) can be thought of as "that which is real". For example, the phrase "Reality is stranger than fiction" means "that which is real is stranger than fiction". So, I meant my phrase to mean "that which is real is real".
Same for existence. Existence, in this case, means "that which exists". The phrase "look at the diversity of existence" means "look at the diversity of that which exists". Similar to above, I intended "existence exists" to convey "that which exists exists".
These phrases are not fallacies, but they are simple tautologies. So, it is a sort of joke in that it is meant to be a light hearted way of trying to express that I accept that some things are real by stating that if something is real then it is real - we can't pretend it is not.
Sorry it was confusing. Let me try again promising to be more technically careful:
When you say "reality" is a descriptive term meant to denote what is real, I'm simply saying that "reality" is a valid description for some things. Some things are "real". Some things do "exist". I'm certainly not a professional philosopher or anything, but perhaps another way to say this is the set of things that are real is not empty. The set of things that have the property of existing is not empty. I certainly believe this. And, I can honestly say that I've never really been convinced that someone else has disagreed. People might differ as to what they believe is real, or what the qualities of real things are, but everybody certainly seems to accept that at least some things are real.
Quote from: "hitsumei"Pretty sure that "fundamentalist atheist" is used, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, towards atheists that read the bible completely literally just like a fundamentalist does, and then criticizes Christians that don't.Okay - I get it. I guess I've never really heard of that, but I understand the idea. I'm certainly not one of those (I hardly ever read the bible at all ;) ).
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: VanReal on March 11, 2009, 12:46:07 AM
Post by: VanReal on March 11, 2009, 12:46:07 AM
Welcome! Funny you said Canada is respected and feared, hehe....
That's an interesting description of the fundamentalist atheist, I guess I can see how that could be as there are a lof of atheists (and several on this board) that know the bible, and other texts, more than the average theist. I think being an atheist it's impossible to view it as anything but literal, it's the nature of the beast, and hence a reason for not believing in it.
All of that of course is lost on me, I pretty much never think about relgion or god unless someone brings it up or talks about it in my presence, then I just sit there and whole-heartedly do not believe any of it. It really has nothing to do with a lack of evidence for me, although that helps, it just simply doesn't make sense to me and I've never been able to believe. As I get older and older I am finding it harder and harder to understand how someone could believe - it's almost mind-boggling.
There is no really common thought pattern or belief system among atheists as we aren't subscribing to any set of rules, teachings, group ideas, etc...I guess other than the fact that we don't believe in a higher power/presence/diety, etc.
Welcome again!
That's an interesting description of the fundamentalist atheist, I guess I can see how that could be as there are a lof of atheists (and several on this board) that know the bible, and other texts, more than the average theist. I think being an atheist it's impossible to view it as anything but literal, it's the nature of the beast, and hence a reason for not believing in it.
All of that of course is lost on me, I pretty much never think about relgion or god unless someone brings it up or talks about it in my presence, then I just sit there and whole-heartedly do not believe any of it. It really has nothing to do with a lack of evidence for me, although that helps, it just simply doesn't make sense to me and I've never been able to believe. As I get older and older I am finding it harder and harder to understand how someone could believe - it's almost mind-boggling.
There is no really common thought pattern or belief system among atheists as we aren't subscribing to any set of rules, teachings, group ideas, etc...I guess other than the fact that we don't believe in a higher power/presence/diety, etc.
Welcome again!
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Hitsumei on March 11, 2009, 05:22:39 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on March 11, 2009, 05:22:39 AM
Thanks for the welcomes everyone.
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Cemetery on March 11, 2009, 10:16:04 PM
Post by: Cemetery on March 11, 2009, 10:16:04 PM
Welcome to the board! This place welcomes all kinds who are willing to be open-minded & learn about others. I'm still a bit of a newbie, but I have found this a very kind place. Please join us.
~C
~C
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: SallyMutant on March 13, 2009, 07:14:18 AM
Post by: SallyMutant on March 13, 2009, 07:14:18 AM
Alllo, Allo, nighthawk here. For fans of the ancient BBC TV show.
Thanks for your explanation for "Fundamentalist Athiests." I wondered if you might also be uncomfortable with athiests who almost seem to be proseletysing, similar to the the same sort of outreach that crazy christians do. And when they demonize all religion, that's pretty frustrating. Most Presbyterians don't want to cut off anyone's head.
Welcome, and I'm jealous--O Canada! I wish we had you National Health!
Thanks for your explanation for "Fundamentalist Athiests." I wondered if you might also be uncomfortable with athiests who almost seem to be proseletysing, similar to the the same sort of outreach that crazy christians do. And when they demonize all religion, that's pretty frustrating. Most Presbyterians don't want to cut off anyone's head.
Welcome, and I'm jealous--O Canada! I wish we had you National Health!
Title: Re: Ello ello.
Post by: Hitsumei on March 13, 2009, 07:41:40 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on March 13, 2009, 07:41:40 AM
Quote from: "SallyMutant"Alllo, Allo, nighthawk here. For fans of the ancient BBC TV show.
Thanks for your explanation for "Fundamentalist Athiests." I wondered if you might also be uncomfortable with athiests who almost seem to be proselytizing, similar to the the same sort of outreach that crazy christians do. And when they demonize all religion, that's pretty frustrating. Most Presbyterians don't want to cut off anyone's head.
Welcome, and I'm jealous--O Canada! I wish we had you National Health!
I am bothered by the demonization of religion, and have actually created a thread in the religion (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2899) section of the forum about it.
As for the proselytizing, I am not bothered by this. It is only natural to try to convince people of the things you think are right. We all want people to appreciate the things we think are beautiful, care about the things we think are important, and hold the positions we think are correct. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.