Title: Absolute Pitch
Post by: maestroanth on March 05, 2009, 07:11:37 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 05, 2009, 07:11:37 AM
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Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 05, 2009, 05:54:24 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 05, 2009, 05:54:24 PM
Welcome, maestroanth. Good to have you. 
What musical instrument do you play?
What musical instrument do you play?
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: curiosityandthecat on March 05, 2009, 06:08:00 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on March 05, 2009, 06:08:00 PM
Welcome. ;) We get it a lot around here and occasionally I jump the gun.
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: Will on March 05, 2009, 07:43:45 PM
Post by: Will on March 05, 2009, 07:43:45 PM
Glad to have you here!
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: McQ on March 05, 2009, 11:05:22 PM
Post by: McQ on March 05, 2009, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: "maestroanth"Sup all! I'm a musician with learned (not born-with; no such thing) absolute (perfect pitch).
Welcome to the forum. One question right off the bat I have for you though. Can you provide a reference for that claim that absolute pitch must be learned and that people can't be born with it? It is my understanding that this topic is under much scrutiny and up for debate.
Quote from: "maestroanth"I'm agnostic in my beliefs simply because I like to ask questions a lot. I have an eccentric personality but my intentions are not ill-intended. When they are try to make amends quickly.
Asking questions is a good thing, and I think you'll find that is a commonality of people here. Eccentric personalities also abide here. One thing we strive for is to keep this the "Happy" Atheist Forum, so you'll also find that we try to keep civil debate (although we do stray at times), so it's good to know that you feel the same way.
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: Sophus on March 06, 2009, 01:29:14 AM
Post by: Sophus on March 06, 2009, 01:29:14 AM
Quote from: "McQ"One question right off the bat I have for you though. Can you provide a reference for that claim that absolute pitch must be learned and that people can't be born with it? It is my understanding that this topic is under much scrutiny and up for debate.
It's insulting when you work hard to achieve something and people demean it by saying "wow he has such a God given talent," or "how lucky he is." No one sees success and accomplishment for what it is. They don't understand nor appreciate all the hard work that goes into it. That's why these people are mediocre at best at whatever it is they do.
Some people have personality qualities that make them more likely to develop a certain forte. But no body is born with perfection in any talent.
Oh and from one musician to another, welcome maestroanth!
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: Whitney on March 06, 2009, 02:15:56 AM
Post by: Whitney on March 06, 2009, 02:15:56 AM
Welcome to the forum.
Question, by absolutely perfect pitch are you talking about singing or about being able to tune an instrument without outside aids...or perhaps something else. How is having perfect pitch measured? I was in choir from when I was really little through most of high school but am not familiar with the idea of perfect pitch (but I do know what tone deaf is).
Question, by absolutely perfect pitch are you talking about singing or about being able to tune an instrument without outside aids...or perhaps something else. How is having perfect pitch measured? I was in choir from when I was really little through most of high school but am not familiar with the idea of perfect pitch (but I do know what tone deaf is).
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 03:22:37 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 03:22:37 AM
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Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 03:25:52 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 03:25:52 AM
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Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 04:20:18 AM
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 04:20:18 AM
Quote from: "Sophus"Quote from: "McQ"One question right off the bat I have for you though. Can you provide a reference for that claim that absolute pitch must be learned and that people can't be born with it? It is my understanding that this topic is under much scrutiny and up for debate.
It's insulting when you work hard to achieve something and people demean it by saying "wow he has such a God given talent," or "how lucky he is." No one sees success and accomplishment for what it is. They don't understand nor appreciate all the hard work that goes into it. That's why these people are mediocre at best at whatever it is they do.
Some people have personality qualities that make them more likely to develop a certain forte. But no body is born with perfection in any talent.
Oh and from one musician to another, welcome maestroanth!
Sophus, I'm a little confused. Are you quoting me because you want to say that I insulted you or maestroanth? And that I did so by asking for a reference to a claim? Even a cursory lookup shows this topic to be debatable, http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/ (http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/) so how is it insulting to ask if some people are born with the ability to hear pitch absolutely? Additionally, I never claimed that it could not be learned, as I believe that it can be. Can you clear up what you are trying to say?
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 04:31:08 AM
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: "maestroanth"Well, yea, the pitch naming system is a MAN-made system, so it is impossible to simply be born with it. Pre-disposition is another question.
That's not a reference, that's your opinion. Can you provide a reference for the claim that absolute pitch can only be learned, and is not already available to a small fraction of humans from birth? If some can learn it and some can not, then who's to say that those who learn it weren't born with a particular genetic feature, or neurological feature that allows them the ability to hear differently than most others?
I'm not saying it can't be learned. Never did. Just wanted a reference to your claim.
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: Sophus on March 06, 2009, 04:44:54 AM
Post by: Sophus on March 06, 2009, 04:44:54 AM
Quote from: "McQ"Sophus, I'm a little confused. Are you quoting me because you want to say that I insulted you or maestroanth? And that I did so by asking for a reference to a claim? Even a cursory lookup shows this topic to be debatable, so how is it insulting to ask if some people are born with the ability to hear pitch absolutely? Additionally, I never claimed that it could not be learned, as I believe that it can be. Can you clear up what you are trying to say?
Oh, no, no. You did not insult anyone (forgive me, I didn't think it would come across that way). I'm talking about those great majority who think along those lines. My crux is that no talent is perfect without first having to educate yourself on the art and work with a vigorous passion toward mastering it.
QuoteThat's not a reference, that's your opinion. Can you provide a reference for the claim that absolute pitch can only be learned, and is not already available to a small fraction of humans from birth? If some can learn it and some can not, then who's to say that those who learn it weren't born with a particular genetic feature, or neurological feature that allows them the ability to hear differently than most others?
I'm not saying it can't be learned. Never did. Just wanted a reference to your claim.
The reference is common sense. Any additional "reference" is just words of theoretic thought as ours are. Do you need a scientists stamp of approval before you can accept it?
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 04:55:22 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 04:55:22 AM
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Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 04:56:26 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 04:56:26 AM
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Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 05:02:41 AM
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 05:02:41 AM
Well, it has taken your introduction too far off topic, so we'll leave it be.
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 05:21:42 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 05:21:42 AM
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Title: I'm the only one in Las Vegas!
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
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Title: Re: I'm the only one in Las Vegas!
Post by: Will on March 06, 2009, 06:26:18 AM
Post by: Will on March 06, 2009, 06:26:18 AM
There's been word about a HAF meet-up in "Sin City" some time in the future. Maybe you can show us the not-so-touristy parts of the city!
Title: Re: I'm the only one in Las Vegas!
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 06, 2009, 06:32:23 AM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on March 06, 2009, 06:32:23 AM
I have plans to be in Vegas towards the end of May to see a UFC fight, and play in some poker tourneys. That is, barring any "acts of god" keeping me from going.
I can't wait to go back.
I can't wait to go back.
Title: Re: I'm the only one in Las Vegas!
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 07:25:20 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 07:25:20 AM
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Title: Re: I'm the only one in Las Vegas!
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 07:30:03 AM
Post by: maestroanth on March 06, 2009, 07:30:03 AM
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Title: Re: I'm the only one in Las Vegas!
Post by: MariaEvri on March 06, 2009, 05:02:04 PM
Post by: MariaEvri on March 06, 2009, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: "maestroanth"Dammit!
what about me??
I feel so alone in my corner in the east D:
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 08:14:50 PM
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 08:14:50 PM
Quote from: "Sophus"Quote from: "McQ"Sophus, I'm a little confused. Are you quoting me because you want to say that I insulted you or maestroanth? And that I did so by asking for a reference to a claim? Even a cursory lookup shows this topic to be debatable, so how is it insulting to ask if some people are born with the ability to hear pitch absolutely? Additionally, I never claimed that it could not be learned, as I believe that it can be. Can you clear up what you are trying to say?
Oh, no, no. You did not insult anyone (forgive me, I didn't think it would come across that way). I'm talking about those great majority who think along those lines. My crux is that no talent is perfect without first having to educate yourself on the art and work with a vigorous passion toward mastering it.
Ok. Thanks. I was doing the double take thing on that like, "Whoa! Where did that come from!" LOL! I understand now!
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 08:32:26 PM
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 08:32:26 PM
Announcement: While trying to split this topic into two threads, I inadvertently deleted several posts. Sorry! I'm working on putting them back in here. In the meantime, they are all safe and happy over in the Science forum, under the topic of "Absolute Pitch."
Forgive the lack of technical skills on this one. I'm trying to multi task. It's not working out so great right now.
OK, I think I fixed it now.
Forgive the lack of technical skills on this one. I'm trying to multi task. It's not working out so great right now.
OK, I think I fixed it now.
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: Sophus on March 06, 2009, 08:47:05 PM
Post by: Sophus on March 06, 2009, 08:47:05 PM
Quote from: "McQ"Ok. Thanks. I was doing the double take thing on that like, "Whoa! Where did that come from!" LOL! I understand now!Ha ha. Sorry about that McQ. Need to re-read before I post to insure I don't send off the wrong "vibe." I have to go hit myself in the head repeatedly with a lamp now. Bad Sophus! Bad!
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 09:05:04 PM
Post by: McQ on March 06, 2009, 09:05:04 PM
Quote from: "Sophus"Quote from: "McQ"Ok. Thanks. I was doing the double take thing on that like, "Whoa! Where did that come from!" LOL! I understand now!Ha ha. Sorry about that McQ. Need to re-read before I post to insure I don't send off the wrong "vibe." I have to go hit myself in the head repeatedly with a lamp now. Bad Sophus! Bad!
(well don't let this get out, but sometimes....like 73.9% of the time....I get really thick and don't grasp things. But you have to swear not to tell the rest of the members! And go easy on yourself with that lamp!)
Title: Re: Introduction
Post by: Whitney on March 07, 2009, 12:07:15 AM
Post by: Whitney on March 07, 2009, 12:07:15 AM
I merged the Vegas topic into this one.