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http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/ (http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/)

QuoteThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (also known as the “Mormon” or LDS Church) has gone too far in promoting the 2008 California Proposition 8, which would claims to amend the California state constitution to define marriage as one man and one woman in order to supersede a state supreme court opinion issued earlier this year. [Whether the proposition was a lawful amendment or a revision that cannot legally be made by a voter initiative remains an open question.]

Section 501(c)(3) of US Code Title 26, which governs tax-exempt organizations, reads (emphasis added):

(3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
(The “otherwise provided” clause does not apply, as the LDS Church, being a church, is a disqualified entity as described in subsection (h).)

The LDS church, through inciting its members to donate time and means to support Proposition 8 (resulting in millions of dollars of cash contributions from its members and countless volunteer hours), and in-kind campaign contributions to a group that supports Proposition 8, has now made a substantial part of its activities attempting to influence legislation.

You can help! Send the IRS an official complaint about the LDS Church’s activities, either by email, fax or US Mail.

Prepare a copy of the Official LDS Prop. 8 Letter read in all LDS churches in California on 29 June 2008.
Prepare one or more other articles of your choice (you can use these links, or do your own research) showing the LDS Church’s substantial activities attempting to influence this legislation.
Prepare this Pre-Filled IRS Form 13909 and add your personal information, or fill out a Blank IRS Form 13909 from scratch with the information in the pre-filled form (these links and an alternative filled form are copied below in RESOURCES.)
Don’t forget to date your referral at the top and include your submitter information. If you are a member of the Church, you may wish to check the box marked “I am concerned that I might face retaliation or retribution if my identity is disclosed.”
Send it to the IRS, either by:
* Email: Prepare your documents as PDF’s or web links, and send your complaint form with supporting documentation to eoclass@irs.gov.
* Fax: fax your documents to (214) 413-5415
* Mail: mail your documents to
IRS EO Classification
Mail Code 4910DAL
1100 Commerce Street
Dallas TX 75242-1198

This can also be extended to other church bodies that are involved in politiking. My father's church got an order from the LCMS to put an insert in their Sunday morning bulletin about "protecting marriage". He asked me about it, and I warned that if he were turned in that his church could find itself losing their tax exempt status, which they rely on to keep their deficit down.

The pulpit is not the appropriate place to make or give opinions on how to vote. The church does not have the right to remove civil liberties.

There are a few websites and videos put up by Mormons that claim that the church itself made no contributions to the Prop 8 campaign... that if members of LDS church made contributions, that's their own choice, and that the church made no efforts ITSELF to coerce them.  If videos or ads were made by LDS church member, it has nothing to do with the church and thus, the issue about their tax-exempt status is irrelevant.

I think that's as convenient as religion itself.  I believe any church whose leader or pastor made any mention of Prop 8 should be fined.

I suggested this months ago!

I like this place, people are on track with my thoughts.

Here's an honest question, I don't see what's so inherently wrong with Prop 8..?

The Bible does say that gay marriage is a sin against God, and America is a Christian nation.

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but in a serious situation like this I don't think everyone should have a right to express it.

Quote from: "Maverick9092"Here's an honest question, I don't see what's so inherently wrong with Prop 8..?

The Bible does say that gay marriage is a sin against God, and America is a Christian nation.

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but in a serious situation like this I don't think everyone should have a right to express it.

I hate to say it, but not everything that is written in the bible is true or morally right. If you try to obey all the "laws" in the bible then you'll end up quickly in jail or a mental institution because we don't stone our children any more when they say something bad (Leviticus 20:9), kill everyone with a different religion (Deuteronomy 17:2-7) or refuse people to enter our churches, who are lame, blind or have flat noses (Leviticus 21:17-18).Homosexuality is not evil; it is not a disease and it is absolutely natural. Condemning it just because there is something written about it in a 2000 years old book, is absolutely insane. Since when is America a Christian state? Your First Amendment clearly says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.". With other words, the US State must keep his hands of religion and do nothing to promote it. Prop. 8 is in direct violation with that First Amendment.

Quote from: "Maverick9092"Here's an honest question, I don't see what's so inherently wrong with Prop 8..?

The Bible does say that gay marriage is a sin against God, and America is a Christian nation.

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but in a serious situation like this I don't think everyone should have a right to express it.

Because America is not a "Christian nation", it is a multicultural, and multi-religious nation. As Obama so poignantly put it in his inaugural address to the nation. Where he specifically mentioned other religious faiths, sexual orientations, and the non-religious.

If you want to not marry someone of the same sex, then don't do it. No one is going to force you to. But don't dictate how other people can live their lives, and legislate against them for no other reason than for a religious one. Based on a rather narrow and dishonest reading of the a particular religious text that the rest of which is ignored, and the government is constitutionally obligated to not endorse.  

I was lucky enough to see same-sex marriage come to Canada, after many long years of working for it, in 2005. The night of the American election I listened to the ballots of the presidential election, and prop 8 be counted, I was thrilled to hear of President Obama's victory, but my night was soured by the defeat in California.

It does not simply remove the already acquired right to marry of the same-sex individuals from now into the future, but it amends the California constitution in a way that will effectively annul the over one hundred thousand already existing same-sex marriages in the state.

This is deeply unjust.

Quote from: "Maverick9092"The Bible does say that gay marriage is a sin against God, and America is a Christian nation?

I think the Bible is more concerned about homosexual acts (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). I could be wrong, but I don't see anything in the Bible about marriage between members of the same gender. Considering it's one of the biggest fights in modern American Christianity, I'm surprised god didn't include it. And he didn't mention anything about fetuses or when life begins either.

Politics are odd.

Quote from: "Hitsumei"Because America is not a "Christian nation", it is a multicultural, and multi-religious nation.

As much as I love you for saying that, it's not entirely true. America is a Christian nation that mourns the fact it's becoming a multicultural, multi-religious nation and tries desperately to be those things on the surface while still maintaining a core of Christian values.

Doesn't surprise me at all that the curches lobby particularly the LDS as they require a percentage of their follower's income and have more money than god. What is irritating is that they are not supposed to be lobbying and why is it the people's responsibility to correct it by completing the IRS forms and making note of it when all of the info the government needs is right there?

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "Hitsumei"Because America is not a "Christian nation", it is a multicultural, and multi-religious nation.

As much as I love you for saying that, it's not entirely true. America is a Christian nation that mourns the fact it's becoming a multicultural, multi-religious nation and tries desperately to be those things on the surface while still maintaining a core of Christian values.

I justify it by allusion to what her president has said, and I think it will remain true for as long as a democrat is in the white house.

So, I'll just say that it depends on who's in charge.

Quote from: "Maverick9092"Here's an honest question, I don't see what's so inherently wrong with Prop 8..?

The Bible does say that gay marriage is a sin against God, and America is a Christian nation.

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but in a serious situation like this I don't think everyone should have a right to express it.

Why is this such a serious situation? Are the terrible homosexuals who've gotten married eating your babies? Are they raping your families? Are they terrorizing your country? Do they cheat you out of money? Did they throw a rock through your windshield? WTF makes this such a dire situation that you feel the need to jump in and tell someone who they should or should not love?? Simply because your precious little bundle of "holy writings" tells you so?

You are right, everyone has their own opinion, and yours is the bigoted one. I will not tell you that you do not have the right to express that opinion, because then I would be sinking down to your level, because you do have that right.

I have an Aunt who is married to a woman. I adore both of them. They are two of the most caring people I've ever known. WhoTF are you to tell them they shouldn't be together? WhoTF are you to tell them that they should not express their love??

Bigots like you make me so angry, it's annoying.  

Quote from: "Maverick9092"Here's an honest question, I don't see what's so inherently wrong with Prop 8..?

The Bible does say that gay marriage is a sin against God, and America is a Christian nation.

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but in a serious situation like this I don't think everyone should have a right to express it.

There are a lot of Christians in the United States, however that does not mean our government is Christian nor that it was founded on Christian principles.  If you take a look at the constitution you will notice that not only does it not mention god, creator etc you'll also notice that the first ammendment prevents the governement from prohibiting the free exercise of religion and prevents them from passing religious laws:

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1 (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1)

QuoteAmendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

By your logic, there should be a Prop 9 preventing the worship of idols.  A prop 10 making it illegal to have sex before marriage.  A prop 11 making it illegal to even lift a small stick on the sabbath.  If you're going to support making things illegal just because the Bible says they are wrong, you're going to have to support any law which can be supported by the bible.  Do you like shrimp?  Sorry, those are illegal now.  Do you like to wear clothing made of two types of fabric...sorry.

Prop 8 is nothing more than homophobia trying to be made into law.  Homosexuals having the right to marry like any other adult is not going to hurt you nor your right to be a Christian.

Quote from: "Whitney"Prop 8 is nothing more than homophobia trying to be made into law.  Homosexuals having the right to marry like any other adult is not going to hurt you nor your right to be a Christian.

Even worse than their support of Prop 8 is the logic they used... say Yes to 8 in order to protect the children.  Because religious folks are offended by the fact that gays exist and they find it offensive that they have to explain to their children that it's okay for 2 people of the same sex to be married.

I find their logic offensive and highly disturbing.

[btw, why is this in the events forum?]

Quote from: "rlrose328"[btw, why is this in the events forum?]

I don't know why I posted it under meetups and activism...I guess when I posted it, I was thinking an opportunity for activism.

I'm going to move it to current events.

As of this morning, the California Supreme Court ruled that proposition 8 stands. This is quite disheartening.  

That sucks in so many ways, I don't even know where to start.  

Suffice to say... it sucks.  SO much for the liberal west coast, eh.  

At least the marriages are staying legal. Silver lining, I guess.

I can't even see that as a silver lining, curio.  So a few thousand couples made it in before it was banned.  Hundreds of thousands are being denied their right to marry and there is nothing now that will change that.

The religious see this as a win.  I see it as a drastic step backwards for our society.  We are no better than the Islamic nations, just a different god in charge.

Another proposition to repeal Prop 8 could fix it. My point was that it could've been a much shittier day if the court deemed those marriages annulled.

Yes, you are correct, of course.  I'm very glad the already married can stay that way.  

Quote from: "Will"As of this morning, the California Supreme Court ruled that proposition 8 stands. This is quite disheartening.  :banna: