Happy Atheist Forum

General => Current Events => Topic started by: Wraitchel on January 20, 2009, 06:34:11 PM

Title: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Wraitchel on January 20, 2009, 06:34:11 PM
Did you hear him in the inaugural address, extending inclusiveness to "Christians, Muslims, Jews, and nonbelievers..."

He acknowledged us!

What a day to witness! :banna:
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: joeactor on January 20, 2009, 06:38:24 PM
wow... dunno how I missed that!

living thru history,
JoeActor
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: oldschooldoc on January 20, 2009, 06:40:14 PM
Quote from: "Wraitchel"Did you hear him in the inaugural address, extending inclusiveness to "Christians, Muslims, Jews, and nonbelievers..."

He acknowledged us!

What a day to witness! :banna:

Awesome! I am at work, so I haven't seen it yet. But, thanks to DVR, I will be watching and paying close attention for that line tonight!!
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Will on January 20, 2009, 07:01:55 PM
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNCS1blml4c
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AmreUm2yvE
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPb7sWSPtss

Text (emphasis mine):
QuoteMy fellow citizens:

I stand here today humbled by the task before us, grateful for the trust you have bestowed, mindful of the sacrifices borne by our ancestors. I thank President Bush for his service to our nation, as well as the generosity and cooperation he has shown throughout this transition.

Forty-four Americans have now taken the presidential oath. The words have been spoken during rising tides of prosperity and the still waters of peace. Yet, every so often the oath is taken amidst gathering clouds and raging storms. At these moments, America has carried on not simply because of the skill or vision of those in high office, but because We the People have remained faithful to the ideals of our forbearers, and true to our founding documents.

So it has been. So it must be with this generation of Americans.

That we are in the midst of crisis is now well understood. Our nation is at war, against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred. Our economy is badly weakened, a consequence of greed and irresponsibility on the part of some, but also our collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age. Homes have been lost; jobs shed; businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly; our schools fail too many; and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.

These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics. Less measurable but no less profound is a sapping of confidence across our land - a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, and that the next generation must lower its sights.

Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America - they will be met.

On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord.

On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.

We remain a young nation, but in the words of Scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our enduring spirit; to choose our better history; to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea, passed on from generation to generation: the God-given promise that all are equal, all are free, and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness.

In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. Our journey has never been one of short-cuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted - for those who prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame. Rather, it has been the risk-takers, the doers, the makers of things - some celebrated but more often men and women obscure in their labor, who have carried us up the long, rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.

For us, they packed up their few worldly possessions and traveled across oceans in search of a new life.

For us, they toiled in sweatshops and settled the West; endured the lash of the whip and plowed the hard earth.

For us, they fought and died, in places like Concord and Gettysburg; Normandy and Khe Sahn.

Time and again these men and women struggled and sacrificed and worked till their hands were raw so that we might live a better life. They saw America as bigger than the sum of our individual ambitions; greater than all the differences of birth or wealth or faction.

This is the journey we continue today. We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week or last month or last year. Our capacity remains undiminished. But our time of standing pat, of protecting narrow interests and putting off unpleasant decisions - that time has surely passed. Starting today, we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and begin again the work of remaking America.

For everywhere we look, there is work to be done. The state of the economy calls for action, bold and swift, and we will act - not only to create new jobs, but to lay a new foundation for growth. We will build the roads and bridges, the electric grids and digital lines that feed our commerce and bind us together. We will restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. And all this we will do.

Now, there are some who question the scale of our ambitions - who suggest that our system cannot tolerate too many big plans. Their memories are short. For they have forgotten what this country has already done; what free men and women can achieve when imagination is joined to common purpose, and necessity to courage.

What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them - that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply. The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified. Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end. And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account - to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day - because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government.

Nor is the question before us whether the market is a force for good or ill. Its power to generate wealth and expand freedom is unmatched, but this crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin out of control - and that a nation cannot prosper long when it favors only the prosperous. The success of our economy has always depended not just on the size of our Gross Domestic Product, but on the reach of our prosperity; on our ability to extend opportunity to every willing heart - not out of charity, but because it is the surest route to our common good.

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. And so to all other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born: know that America is a friend of each nation and every man, woman, and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity, and that we are ready to lead once more.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

We are the keepers of this legacy. Guided by these principles once more, we can meet those new threats that demand even greater effort - even greater cooperation and understanding between nations. We will begin to responsibly leave Iraq to its people, and forge a hard-earned peace in Afghanistan. With old friends and former foes, we will work tirelessly to lessen the nuclear threat, and roll back the specter of a warming planet. We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense, and for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you.

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace.

To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West - know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy. To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history; but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.

To the people of poor nations, we pledge to work alongside you to make your farms flourish and let clean waters flow; to nourish starved bodies and feed hungry minds. And to those nations like ours that enjoy relative plenty, we say we can no longer afford indifference to suffering outside our borders; nor can we consume the world's resources without regard to effect. For the world has changed, and we must change with it.

As we consider the road that unfolds before us, we remember with humble gratitude those brave Americans who, at this very hour, patrol far-off deserts and distant mountains. They have something to tell us today, just as the fallen heroes who lie in Arlington whisper through the ages. We honor them not only because they are guardians of our liberty, but because they embody the spirit of service; a willingness to find meaning in something greater than themselves. And yet, at this moment - a moment that will define a generation - it is precisely this spirit that must inhabit us all.

For as much as government can do and must do, it is ultimately the faith and determination of the American people upon which this nation relies. It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job which sees us through our darkest hours. It is the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke, but also a parent's willingness to nurture a child, that finally decides our fate.

Our challenges may be new. The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values upon which our success depends - hard work and honesty, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism - these things are old. These things are true. They have been the quiet force of progress throughout our history. What is demanded then is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility - a recognition, on the part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation, and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character, than giving our all to a difficult task.

This is the price and the promise of citizenship.

This is the source of our confidence - the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny.

This is the meaning of our liberty and our creed - why men and women and children of every race and every faith can join in celebration across this magnificent mall, and why a man whose father less than sixty years ago might not have been served at a local restaurant can now stand before you to take a most sacred oath.

So let us mark this day with remembrance, of who we are and how far we have traveled. In the year of America's birth, in the coldest of months, a small band of patriots huddled by dying campfires on the shores of an icy river. The capital was abandoned. The enemy was advancing. The snow was stained with blood. At a moment when the outcome of our revolution was most in doubt, the father of our nation ordered these words be read to the people:

"Let it be told to the future world...that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive...that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet [it]."

America. In the face of our common dangers, in this winter of our hardship, let us remember these timeless words. With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Whitney on January 21, 2009, 01:39:37 AM
Maybe we should send him a thank you letter for being dedicated to the ideal of equality rather than forgetting everyone not like him as everyone else does.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: McQ on January 21, 2009, 02:01:44 AM
I was kind of thrilled to hear him say that.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: VanReal on January 21, 2009, 02:25:02 AM
It was nice to have him include non-believers.  If you've never listened to his speech on religion he gave in a church I recommend it.  It shows a lot regarding his character and how I truly think he is genuinely accepting of all people regardless of their faith or lack there-of.  He actually talks about a time when he didn't believe and mentions that his "reintroduction" to the church was a concious decision...he kind of pokes fun and says he "didn't get the holy ghost" hehe.  Although he is a believer I get the feeling that it's more of a comfort issue for him rather than something he really feels.  Just goes to show, they aren't all out to convert us, yippee!!  :beer:
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Will on January 21, 2009, 02:26:17 AM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"Maybe we should send him a thank you letter for being dedicated to the ideal of equality rather than forgetting everyone not like him as everyone else does.
Maybe something like this?
QuoteGreetings from the Happy Atheist Forum, Mr. President. We're writing you today in order to communicate our appreciation for your inclusion of the nonreligious in your inauguration speech. While it was only a few words, it was a step in what we see as the right direction; a step towards equality between theists and atheists, and an understanding that being created equal is just as true regardless of our different theories on how we were created. We atheists have so much in common with believersâ€"to paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright, we also believe in God, only we happen to spell it Nature.

We are certainly optimistic about your presidency, and you shall have our total support every time you say or do something we agree with, but our respectful and constructive dissent when we think you may be in err.

If you're so inclined, we would be glad if you were to stop in if you happen to have a free moment in the next 4-8 years to post your opinion on our forum. And feel free to do so anonymously if that would make you comfortable.

With warmest regards and, dare I say it, hope,

The Happy Atheist Forum
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/)

P.S. The rest of the speech was good, too.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: VanReal on January 21, 2009, 02:41:24 AM
I love the "P.S." I think he'd love it!
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Ihateyoumike on January 21, 2009, 02:45:01 AM
Quote from: "Willravel"Maybe something like this?
QuoteGreetings from the Happy Atheist Forum, Mr. President. We're writing you today in order to communicate our appreciation for your inclusion of the nonreligious in your inauguration speech. While it was only the inclusion of a few words, it's a step in what we see as the right direction; it's a step towards equality between theists and atheists, and understanding that being created equal is just as true regardless of our different theories on how we were created. We atheists have so much in common with believersâ€"to paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright, we also believe in God, only we happen to spell it Nature.

We are certainly optimistic about your presidency, and you shall have our total support every time you say or do something we agree with, but our respectful and constructive dissent when we think you may be in err.

With warmest regards and, dare I say it, hope,

The Happy Atheist Forum
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/)

P.S. The rest of the speech was good, too.

Clear. Concise. Pithy. I like it!
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Whitney on January 21, 2009, 03:08:11 AM
Will...that is perfect.

Is it okay if I copy and send it?  

Btw, if you type "how do I send mail to the president where you would normally type a web address in IE it produces the following:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ (http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/)

Which is better? email or paper.  With Obama I'm thinking email because he likes his blackberry.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Will on January 21, 2009, 03:22:43 AM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"Will...that is perfect.
I wrote it quickly. I should give it the once over for grammar and syntax (he was the head of the Harvard Law Review, after all). It's not like writing to Bush:
QuoteDear Mr. President,
Dude, I totally saw your innaguration! We should totally do it on shrooms next time. I saw Dana the other day. You know, the one with the *holds out hands over chest*. You hit that back in the day? Psh, bet you did. Email me later so we can have some beers and smoke a jay. I'll bring the pretzels ROFL. My email is http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ (http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/)

Which is better? email or paper.  With Obama I'm thinking email because he likes his blackberry.
Oh yeah, definitely email. And we should invite him to join.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Whitney on January 21, 2009, 03:32:36 AM
Quote from: "Willravel"Greetings from the Happy Atheist Forum, Mr. President. We're writing you today in order to communicate our appreciation of your including the nonreligious in your inauguration speech. While it was only the inclusion of a few words, it's a step in what we see as the right direction; a step towards equality between theists and atheists. We look towards a future understanding that being created equal is just as true regardless of our different theories on how we were created. We atheists have so much in common with believersâ€"to paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright, we also believe in God, only we happen to spell it Nature.

We are certainly optimistic about your presidency, and you shall have our total support every time you say or do something we agree with.   We will also respectful provide constructive dissent when we think you may be in err.

If you are able to break away from your busy schedule, we would greatly appreciate if you could visit us online.  We have been told that the forum displays well on a blackberry.

With warmest regards and, dare I say it, hope,

The Happy Atheist Forum
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/)

P.S. The rest of the speech was good, too.

I bolded the parts I changed.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Ihateyoumike on January 21, 2009, 03:43:49 AM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"If you are able to break away from your busy schedule, we would greatly appreciate if you could visit us online.  We have been told that the forum displays well on a blackberry.


 :idea:
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Whitney on January 21, 2009, 03:46:48 AM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike":idea:

Unfortunately, on the off chance that he would decide to visit us, the only way to set aside a screen name is to disallow it.  Meaning he wouldn't be able to join with that name without asking.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Will on January 21, 2009, 03:51:51 AM
QuoteGreetings from the Happy Atheist Forum, Mr. President.  We're writing you today in order to communicate our appreciation of your including the nonreligious in your inauguration speech.  While it was only the inclusion of a few words, it's a step in what we see as the right direction; a step towards equality between theists and atheists.  We look towards a future understanding that being created equal is just as true regardless of our different theories on how we were created.  We atheists have so much in common with believersâ€"to paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright, we also believe in God, only we happen to spell it Nature.

We are certainly optimistic about your presidency, and you shall have our total support every time you say or do something we agree with. We will also respectfully provide constructive dissent when we think you may be in err.

If you are able to break away from your busy schedule, we would greatly appreciate if you could visit us online.  We have been told that the forum displays well on a blackberry.

With warmest regards and, dare I say it, hope,

The Happy Atheist Forum
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/)

P.S. The rest of the speech was good, too.

I bolded the parts I changed.
Me, too.

I'm feeling the sudden urge to throw in some Latin legal terms like res ipsa loquitur to show off. I must resist that urge.  :eek:
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: SSY on January 21, 2009, 04:22:37 AM
While this shows a step in the right direction, Obama will never post on any athiest affiliated website under his own name. Should word get out, he would lose a huge amount of voters.

A black president is a great show of equality, but I fear it will be a while before an atheist president would ever have a chance in office.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: VanReal on January 21, 2009, 04:28:45 AM
Party Pooper!  :(
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Whitney on January 21, 2009, 04:29:02 AM
Quote from: "SSY"While this shows a step in the right direction, Obama will never post on any athiest affiliated website under his own name. Should word get out, he would lose a huge amount of voters.

A black president is a great show of equality, but I fear it will be a while before an atheist president would ever have a chance in office.

Sadly, I have to agree.  I actually would not want him to post here openly due to the damage it would cause to his political career; but he could do so privately without a problem.  Mainly, it's just fun to throw in an invitation for him to visit.

I think an atheist (or at least opently agnostic) president is something I could see in my life time if the right person came along...American isn't nearly as religious as it use to be.  Plus, it's not like we haven't had agnostic/deist presidents in the past.  ;)
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Whitney on January 21, 2009, 04:32:10 AM
In order to use the email form, we need to shorten it to 500 characters.  It cut it off at "we atheists have so..."
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: DennisK on January 21, 2009, 05:37:29 AM
What everyone fails to forget about Obama being inaugurated is that it is also a sad time.  One of the greatest presidents in this country's history has left office.  Can we all have a moment of silence to remember all the love "w" brought us?  Bye, you piece of shit!  The next time I see you I hope it's in front of an International tribunal facing war crimes. :devil:

Back to Happy Atheist mode.  It's good to be acknowledged.  I'm optimistically pessimistic, however.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: flickroon on January 21, 2009, 09:02:32 AM
I was SO happy when I heard him utter those words!
Man, I was getting a little bummed by the religious input.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: curiosityandthecat on January 21, 2009, 01:51:02 PM
Isn't it BlackBerry?

Wouldn't want the pres to think our grammar skills are lacking.  ;)
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Will on January 21, 2009, 06:56:43 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Isn't it BlackBerry?

Wouldn't want the pres to think our grammar skills are lacking.  :devil:
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: oldschooldoc on January 21, 2009, 08:04:49 PM
This is fun! I wish there were a way for all of us to sign it...
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: SallyMutant on January 21, 2009, 09:58:15 PM
I was so happy that we were mentioned in the speech. Yesterday was a great day for all citizens. And I'm soooo  happy to come here today and see that many of us noticed  and enjoyed the acknowledgment :beer:
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Ihateyoumike on January 21, 2009, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: "DennisK"Back to Happy Atheist mode.  It's good to be acknowledged.  I'm optimistically pessimistic, however.

I'm with you on this one. It was definitely nice to hear us non-believers get mentioned. However, I'm not giddy with joy, because when it comes down to it, until he proves to me otherwise, he's still just another politician. I just hope he proves me wrong, and like DennisK, I'm optimistically pessimistic.

That being said, at least he's not W. That's gotta be a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: SSY on January 22, 2009, 12:12:32 AM
I think an agnostic/atheist president is a definite possability in the not too distant future. Thatcher after all, confidently predicted there would never be a female Prime Minister in her lifetime.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Whitney on January 22, 2009, 01:20:43 AM
I had to shorten it to the following (500 character limit):

QuoteWe're writing you today in order to communicate our appreciation of your including the nonreligious in your inauguration speech. While it was only the inclusion of a few words, it's a step in what we see as the right direction; a step towards equality between theists and atheists. We look towards a future understanding that being created equal is just as true regardless of our different theories on how we were created.

The Happy Atheist Forum
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/ (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/)
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: curiosityandthecat on January 22, 2009, 01:26:38 AM
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages46.fotki.com%2Fv1442%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2F54510207-vi.gif&hash=7d05d3592bc180903f84c5843c3220e2ccc63724)
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: keith2004 on January 22, 2009, 05:09:29 PM
:beer:

One of my favorite parts of his speech
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: VanReal on January 23, 2009, 01:45:05 AM
Poor "W" I get tired of hearing him get slammed and disrespected all of the time.  Sure he's an easy target but he had a horrendous presidency, not all of which was brought on my himself.  It was Clinton who ran through our surplus and headed us into the first part of the recession and of course he'd been in office how long before September 11th? And the natural disasters were his fault? And he was the only one saying the were WMD?  And there was no vote on going to the middle east?  Give the poor guy a break.  Obama has a lot of work to do, and he will have to deal with what comes along in his presidency, and deal with what was left from the previous, like W did with Clinton, some will be his doing and hopefully it will run more smoothly but I think the Bush hating is rude and immature.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Recusant on January 23, 2009, 02:25:09 AM
QuoteIt was Clinton who ran through our surplus...

Wha??  I refer you to this page, (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/27/clinton.surplus/)which clearly says that when Clinton left office the country had the largest budget surplus in the history of the US.  
As for Katrina, no one is blaming Bush for that, but rather for the way in which it was handled.

It was not the Congress that chose to go to war with Iraq, they merely meekly rubber-stamped what was unquestionably the Bush administration's choice.

I don't like any politicians, but Ex-President Bush (what a pleasure to be able to say that!) was really bad for this country, and deserves to be called on it.  He has earned the opprobrium, sympathize with him if you will.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Will on January 23, 2009, 02:34:35 AM
Quote from: "VanReal"and of course he'd been in office how long before September 11th?
9/11 could have been prevented had we elected someone capable of doing his homework:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/ (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/)
Quote from: "VanReal"And the natural disasters were his fault?
http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/ (http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/)

Breaks are earned. Bush seems to have used all of his.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Recusant on January 23, 2009, 03:45:29 AM
Quote from: "Willravel"9/11 could have been prevented had we elected someone capable of doing his homework.

I cannot help but say that I think Al Gore, whatever faults he has, and of course there are many, is quite capable of doing his homework.  "We" did not elect Bush the first time, he was essentially appointed by the Supreme Court! (An ancient smelly old can of worms, I know, but I ain't fergettin'.)
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Will on January 23, 2009, 05:15:39 AM
Quote from: "Recusant"I cannot help but say that I think Al Gore, whatever faults he has, and of course there are many, is quite capable of doing his homework.
He'd certainly do well enough in environmental science, management, and policy courses. And I've just forgotten the thread topic..
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: VanReal on January 25, 2009, 05:51:32 PM
Quote from: "Recusant"
QuoteIt was Clinton who ran through our surplus...

Wha??  I refer you to this page, (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/27/clinton.surplus/)which clearly says that when Clinton left office the country had the largest budget surplus in the history of the US.  
As for Katrina, no one is blaming Bush for that, but rather for the way in which it was handled.

It was not the Congress that chose to go to war with Iraq, they merely meekly rubber-stamped what was unquestionably the Bush administration's choice.

I don't like any politicians, but Ex-President Bush (what a pleasure to be able to say that!) was really bad for this country, and deserves to be called on it.  He has earned the opprobrium, sympathize with him if you will.

Actually there was a surplus (the first in a Long time) while Clinton was in office, but it was gone by the time Bush took office and the 4th quarter of Clinton's presidency was the beginning of that recession, so financially we were backsliding before Bush took office.  (He certainly didn't spend any of it helping in Rwanda, he's a jerk-off, can't stand him.) We actually studied the federal budget in detail when I was working on my Masters, I'm sure I still have my archives but it's been some time. I'm certainly not saying there was not mishandling of funds while Bush was in office, not at all, that would be a idiodic position to take.  I'm not a fan of either of them, I just don't think it appropriate to blanketly bash anyone when we have no idea of what wa really going on throughout the duration of those 8 years.  Maybe we'll be better informed and more knowledgeable with Obama since he wants to put more information out for piblic view, we'll still only get a glimpse though.

As for Katrina, I'll try to keep my mouth shut about most of that because my thoughts on that entire ordeal seem to be very unfavorable to most people.  However, I don't agree that the handling of that should be placed on the people making the immediate decisions, and I am not only speaking of the federal government.  We have a LOT of the New Orleans population living here in Dallas, and tons of them decided to stay here......that whole thing irritates me so I am going to stop.
Title: Re: Obama mentioned us!
Post by: Loffler on January 26, 2009, 01:11:58 AM
Wow, I was unsure about Obama but that made me feel really good about him.