Happy Atheist Forum

I hear this alot from Christians trying to distance themselves from pedophile pastors, televangelists arrested for fraud etc.
Your thoughts?

Well, there isn't much you can say.  I usually just comment on how there are many ideas of "true" Christianity and how can they know that their specific brand is the right one.  I guess you could also comment about how all sins are equal to God (aren't they, or is that a denominational belief too?) and so just because someone does something one Christian finds horrible that doesn't make them any less of a Christian than some very pious guy who accidentally let "god damnit" slip out during a moment of frustration.

Depending on their definition of a "Christian", they may be committing the "No True Scotsman" fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

It's a difficult situation when someone say that evil christians are not "true" christians. It could be said that they still have power, and that many people still followed them. It should be noted that if you have faith in an authority figure, then you have no way of determining if they are a "true" christian.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"Well, there isn't much you can say.  I usually just comment on how there are many ideas of "true" Christianity and how can they know that their specific brand is the right one.  I guess you could also comment about how all sins are equal to God (aren't they, or is that a denominational belief too?) and so just because someone does something one Christian finds horrible that doesn't make them any less of a Christian than some very pious guy who accidentally let "god damnit" slip out during a moment of frustration.

I'm mostly around Catholics, they have mortal and venial sins. I'm not familiar with the details though. It's just such a cop out to throw someone under the bus when their "sin" is too embarrassing to your religion.

"No True Scotsman" fallacy fits. Thanks for link Squid.

Youc could try reminding them that loads of fundies would think exactly the same thing about them for some minor dogmatic difference that no doubt exists between them.

For example, I'm sure members of the westboro baptist church would hold a very dissaproving view of most other christians in their country, and what is to say their oppinion of what makes a true christian is any better or worse than someone else's?

Quote from: "SSY"Youc could try reminding them that loads of fundies would think exactly the same thing about them for some minor dogmatic difference that no doubt exists between them.

For example, I'm sure members of the westboro baptist church would hold a very dissaproving view of most other christians in their country, and what is to say their oppinion of what makes a true christian is any better or worse than someone else's?

Which i guess, goes to show that there must be no such thing as a 'true Christian' if none of them can agree on what to, and what not to follow through their belief system.

I smile, nod, and pat them on the head.  

I think it's a natural defense mechanism we all do in one form or another.  No one wants to admit their friends, family, community would do a horrific act.

No Scotsman would do such a thing, but I heard his mother is one quarter Welsh.  Ah, now it makes sense.

Hmm... according to the book of James they can accuse evil Christians of not being authentic. But if we look at Romans it tells us they cannot. So it's a question of which cherry you want to pick. For an unchanging God he sure can't seem to make up his mind....  

Quote from: "Squid"Depending on their definition of a "Christian", they may be committing the "No True Scotsman" fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Winner!  

Hello,
I'm new to this forum but I am going to give my try at this. I grew up around no religion in particular, it was never pushed on me and I had no real desire to find it. Perhaps it's because of this, but I am not sure what is meant by "They're not a true Christian". From the posts I have read in this thread, it seems as if this is the justification to separate their 'church' from the accused. What leads up to someone having to use it as an excuse to defend their church, religion, etc? Is the religion being persecuted or the person? Honestly, I don't know, I have never had to encounter someone who had to defend their 'faith' in that way.  

Quote from: "thirteen31"Hello,
I'm new to this forum but I am going to give my try at this. I grew up around no religion in particular, it was never pushed on me and I had no real desire to find it. Perhaps it's because of this, but I am not sure what is meant by "They're not a true Christian". From the posts I have read in this thread, it seems as if this is the justification to separate their 'church' from the accused. What leads up to someone having to use it as an excuse to defend their church, religion, etc? Is the religion being persecuted or the person? Honestly, I don't know, I have never had to encounter someone who had to defend their 'faith' in that way.  

My guess is the defense to separate one from another who held their same belief was that they may perceive an inflicted guilt by association.  Dunno.

The big problem with this issue is that all of those people Christians won't claim as their own get labeled as (you guessed it) atheists.  So while Hitler walked around shouting "Gott mit uns!" and slavers used the Bible to justify keeping human beings as property Christians will insist they were atheists.  After insisting they (anyone who has ever done anything bad or inhumane, ever) were atheists they will then use it to claim atheists are responsible for the "downfall" of America.  They will claim our prisons are full of atheists and that all pedophile priests are atheists.  And then we wonder why atheists are the most despised minority in America?

I ask them "Well, how does one define what a 'true christian' is?"

I usually get the answer "By whether they follow the rules in the bible", and I respond "Then why aren't you stoning to death everyone who works on the saboth?"

Quote from: "Nazzer"I ask them "Well, how does one define what a 'true christian' is?"

I usually get the answer "By whether they follow the rules in the bible", and I respond "Then why aren't you stoning to death everyone who works on the saboth?"

A bit like stating that non-christians who do good deeds "are not truely Non-Christians"