Happy Atheist Forum

Yet another story of a pastor abusing his make believe power to coerce sex with vunerable, gullible children.  

In this case like others, the victim told police that the pastor would "take her into the church office after Sunday service and tell her having sex with him would bring her closer to God."

People, we desperately need some Federal laws to protect children in Christian churches to stop this.  Christian churches have proven time and time again to pose a continuing danger to children who are easy prey for sexual molestation by pastors, ministers and priests.  

I think that Federal law should prohibit any minor from being left unattended in churches or church facilities unless there is at least one other adult in the facility besides the pastor, minister or priest.

That sort of law may have put a check on this, like so many other, pedophile pastor ...

QuoteThe pastor of a Newton County church is charged with sex crimes against a minor, and investigators expect more charges to come.

Randall Russell, also known as Danny Russell, 49, is charged with statutory rape and statutory sodomy in the second degree, one count each.  He is also charged with child abuse.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkoam.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F8250132_BG1.jpg&hash=b2256ef75025210c0ef81cbc5e7997f4b33eea68)
Church Pastor & alleged pedophile, Randall Russell

Investigators allege Russell committed the acts on a frequent basis inside the Acts II Church he built on his property.  Authorities say Russell identifies himself as the pastor.

The alleged victim was 16 at the time.

She told officials Russell would take her into the church office after Sunday service and tell her having sex with him would bring her closer to God.

Investigators searched the Acts II Church and Russell's business, and believe there could be several more victims.

Officers confiscated a computer from the office of Garages and More, which is on the same property as the church.

http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8250132 (http://www.koamtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8250132)

If this sort of thing was going on inside Scientology or other non-Christian religion, you bet there would be a public outcry for special laws protecting children from clergy exploitation ... but just because it's Christianity, politicians are too scared to do anything to upset the brainwashed masses that keep them in office.

Churches and their pastors who have no motivation to sexually abuse children should not have any problem with such a law ... only the one's that secretly have such motivations will try to block such legislation.


.

The twisted heart and mind of most christians I have known is one of the biggest reasons I am absolutely certain that they, not we, are on the wrong path. I don't mean to imply that most christians would rape or sodomize a child, but have you noticed that it is always their spiritual leader fucking their babies of making off with their life savings?! The only christian minister I know well was, himself, sexually abused by his psychotic mother. I believe that the guilt that results from having been a victim of sexual abuse as a child makes one more vulnerable to the christian belief that we are all sinners. They can skip right over that whole bit of brainwashing groundwork. I still don't understand why so many people fall for it, though. Not that many people were victimized by pervs.

Quote from: "Wraitchel"The twisted heart and mind of most christians I have known is one of the biggest reasons I am absolutely certain that they, not we, are on the wrong path. I don't mean to imply that most christians would rape or sodomize a child, but have you noticed that it is always their spiritual leader fucking their babies of making off with their life savings?! The only christian minister I know well was, himself, sexually abused by his psychotic mother. I believe that the guilt that results from having been a victim of sexual abuse as a child makes one more vulnerable to the christian belief that we are all sinners. They can skip right over that whole bit of brainwashing groundwork. I still don't understand why so many people fall for it, though. Not that many people were victimized by pervs.

Funny how Ted Haggard, who it now comes out that he was abused as a child, came to mind while reading your post.

.

Honestly, I don't know which is the greater fool. The perverted pastor or the 16 year old girl who believed him.

Isn't it good to know that Jesus loves this man more than you and me because he believes in him? lol

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkoam.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F8250132_BG1.jpg&hash=b2256ef75025210c0ef81cbc5e7997f4b33eea68)

Quote from: "Sophus"Honestly, I don't know which is the greater fool. The perverted pastor or the 16 year old girl who believed him.

Isn't it good to know that Jesus loves this man more than you and me because he believes in him? lol

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkoam.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F8250132_BG1.jpg&hash=b2256ef75025210c0ef81cbc5e7997f4b33eea68)

Therein lies the ultimate hypocrisy (and danger) of the Christian worldview: an unethical Christian is morally superior than an ethical non-Christian.


.

Unfortunately, I don't think there could be a practical law to protect kids that could be exclusively applied to just clergy.  If you look at the education system a lot of problems show up there, too.  The sick thing is where there are kids that's where pedophiles end up.  They are drawn to kids.  And the smart ones use their authority to abuse kids and hide the truth behind Christianity or some other positive label.

Adults warp the minds of little kids with religious craziness so they can have power over them, "for their own good", and then some predator waltzes in and does this.  They kind of are setting up the perfect situation for their kids to be abused by imposing obedience to a higher power taken solely on faith that can't be questioned.  It's no wonder these kids do what they are told when a pedophile targets them.  They are basically defenseless mentally.  Part of their vulnerability is that they don't question the pedophile because he or she has authority.

So this guy is a dirty bastard and on that we can probably all agree.  However, I don't equate statutory rape (meaning consensual sex) with a 16 year old with child molestation.  It's a crime and it's an abuse of power but pedophilia is in a whole different bracket as far as I'm concerned.  Hebephilia ( a person who desires consensual sex with teens) is a different crime in my book.

I'm sure this is a tangent but the laws that make statutory rape equate with pedophilia have put teenagers in jail for consensual sex with other teenagers and then marked them as pedophiles for life.  I recently read of a young woman who is fighting to keep her house which is within 1000 feet of a church daycare because she was convicted of statutory rape for giving her one-week-from-16-years-old boyfriend a blowjob when she was the ripe old age of just-turned-17.

Quote from: "Sophus"Honestly, I don't know which is the greater fool. The perverted pastor or the 16 year old girl who believed him.

Isn't it good to know that Jesus loves this man more than you and me because he believes in him? lol

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkoam.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F8250132_BG1.jpg&hash=b2256ef75025210c0ef81cbc5e7997f4b33eea68)

Quote from: "Kylyssa"So this guy is a dirty bastard and on that we can probably all agree.  However, I don't equate statutory rape (meaning consensual sex) with a 16 year old with child molestation.  It's a crime and it's an abuse of power but pedophilia is in a whole different bracket as far as I'm concerned.  Hebephilia ( a person who desires consensual sex with teens) is a different crime in my book.

I'm sure this is a tangent but the laws that make statutory rape equate with pedophilia have put teenagers in jail for consensual sex with other teenagers and then marked them as pedophiles for life.  I recently read of a young woman who is fighting to keep her house which is within 1000 feet of a church daycare because she was convicted of statutory rape for giving her one-week-from-16-years-old boyfriend a blowjob when she was the ripe old age of just-turned-17.

Sophus and Kylyssa, you got some 'splainin' to do! Don't you dare fall into the trap of thinking it is in ANY way the fault of the 16 year old that she was victimized by this twerp! You seem to be assuming that she should have known better. I'm telling you that this notion, which she and many people close to her probably also hold, harms her further by adding guilt to victimization. I'm sure she feels like a complete idiot. I'm telling you that a 16 year old girl, unless she's already been around the block a few times, has no idea how a man's mind (and dick) works, or how much of the time a man is thinking he'd like to do her. Furthermore, he undoubtedly lied to her and kept her confused. To put it very simply, he was in a position of power over her, spiritually, physically, socially, and probably intellectually, and he used his power to drag her into his own perverted little hell. A sixteen year old girl is not equipped to deal with this. I speak from experience.

As for 17 year olds being punished for going down on 16 year olds...well that's just ridiculous, but it should not be used to justify diminishing the punishment for what disgusting adults do, especially mindfuckers like this one! Do you really think she wanted him to fuck her in the ass?!

Quote from: "Wraitchel"Sophus and Kylyssa, you got some 'splainin' to do! Don't you dare fall into the trap of thinking it is in ANY way the fault of the 16 year old that she was victimized by this twerp! You seem to be assuming that she should have known better. I'm telling you that this notion, which she and many people close to her probably also hold, harms her further by adding guilt to victimization. I'm sure she feels like a complete idiot. I'm telling you that a 16 year old girl, unless she's already been around the block a few times, has no idea how a man's mind (and dick) works, or how much of the time a man is thinking he'd like to do her. Furthermore, he undoubtedly lied to her and kept her confused. To put it very simply, he was in a position of power over her, spiritually, physically, socially, and probably intellectually, and he used his power to drag her into his own perverted little hell. A sixteen year old girl is not equipped to deal with this. I speak from experience.

As for 17 year olds being punished for going down on 16 year olds...well that's just ridiculous, but it should not be used to justify diminishing the punishment for what disgusting adults do, especially mindfuckers like this one! Do you really think she wanted him to fuck her in the ass?!

Possibly. She's either intellectually lazy, an idiot or a sex desperate teen who knew what she was doing was not getting her any closer to her God. Obviously I think the man is a scumbag, but as far as wits go I don't think either of them have them.

Or perhaps she is a sheltered christian girl who has not had the opportunity or encouragement to use her mind and begin to question things. Perhaps events in her life have even stunted her emotional growth and sense that she has the right to say no to a person in authority.

Some sixteen year old girls are sexually curious, and perhaps are ready to have consensual sex, but some are not. At sixteen, I was still very much a child. All you have to do is look at a room full of high school sophomores to see that some are women already and some are still children. However, even the ones who look like women are not necessarily mature enough emotionally or intellectually to deal with sex with an adult. It is one thing to tussle about and explore new territory with a peer, and quite another to have an adult predator working his agenda on you.

Sophus, I am seeking your compassion for her. Do you have any?

Here's my explaining.  I was raped both as a child and more than once as a homeless teen/adult and I think there is a difference between someone talking someone into having sex and a person forcing it on someone.  I agreed that what he did was wrong and a crime which deserves punishment but I don't agree that talking a sixteen year old into having sex is the same as making a six year old choke on your dick with vomit coming out her nose.  Nor is it the same as forcing someone to have sex without their consent.  

I think there's an important difference between rape and statutory rape - after all if it was forced through physical or mental coercion, the charge would be straight up rape of a minor.

And I never indicated a lack of compassion for the girl.  I clearly indicated that what he did was a crime.  He used a position of authority to entice someone to have sex with him.  And now her family and community is probably causing her further harm.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Here's my explaining.  I was raped both as a child and more than once as a homeless teen/adult and I think there is a difference between someone talking someone into having sex and a person forcing it on someone.  I agreed that what he did was wrong and a crime which deserves punishment but I don't agree that talking a sixteen year old into having sex is the same as making a six year old choke on your dick with vomit coming out her nose.  Nor is it the same as forcing someone to have sex without their consent.  

I think there's an important difference between rape and statutory rape - after all if it was forced through physical or mental coercion, the charge would be straight up rape of a minor.

I agree. The degree of the crime matters. I just don't think someone should be let off the hook completely just because it was mostly a mindfuck rather than a matter of physical force. I think statutory rape must be an enforceable offense. I think that men who force their dicks into the mouths of six year olds deserve to have them pinched off in a car door. I also am not sure there was any real talking/convincing in the case with the pastor, though. I think it was more a matter of taking more and more aggressive physical liberties with the victim over the course of months, while mindfucking her into submission whenever she tried to protest. That's not what my case was like. It was a one time violation, but there was no talking or convincing. It was a wordless act of aggression. I just didn't fight as hard as I should have.

Okay, let's talk some more about the difference between forcing one's dick into a six year old's mouth, coercing an immature and vulnerable teen, and raping an adult woman at knife-point. Let's say that no permanent physical harm was done to any of these three victims. Let's say that afterward, all three felt dirty, ashamed, violated. Let's say that afterward, all three had physical manifestations of their emotional pain in the form of stomach pain and vomiting. Although the perpetrators committed very different degrees of violence, the victims suffer very similar effects. Do you agree?

I have noticed that people have more scorn than sympathy for a sheltered and ignorant young woman who gets herself in over her head than they do for other types of victims. I believe that is because we recognize our own vulnerability in her, and it makes us uncomfortable. I think we also see that she had the power to prevent her victimization, but failed to use it. She should have avoided the situation in the first place, she should have called for help. She should have scratched his eyes out...and so on. We hate her for her weakness of character. But is that right?

Quote from: "Wraitchel"I just didn't fight as hard as I should have.

Bullshit.  Take none of the blame because it is not yours.  It's like saying a person who gets robbed is at fault because they didn't fight the thief.  Now, if I could only learn to follow my own advice.

Quote from: "Wraitchel"I just don't think someone should be let off the hook completely just because it was mostly a mindfuck rather than a matter of physical force. I think statutory rape must be an enforceable offense.

Absolutely!  But I also think there need to be more laws in place to distinguish between an adult pastor abusing his power over a teen and a couple of teens having actually, wanted, consensual sex.  I guess I didn't express that clearly enough. The laws are messed up.  

I put the blame firmly on the pastor with secondary blame on the girl's parents for letting her hang out alone with a grown man that they trusted for no other reason that he's some religious something or other.  I also blame the parents and the subculture that raised the girl to think religious equals absolute good, leaving her vulnerable to a religious monster.

Quote from: "Wraitchel"Or perhaps she is a sheltered christian girl who has not had the opportunity or encouragement to use her mind and begin to question things. Perhaps events in her life have even stunted her emotional growth and sense that she has the right to say no to a person in authority.

Some sixteen year old girls are sexually curious, and perhaps are ready to have consensual sex, but some are not. At sixteen, I was still very much a child. All you have to do is look at a room full of high school sophomores to see that some are women already and some are still children. However, even the ones who look like women are not necessarily mature enough emotionally or intellectually to deal with sex with an adult. It is one thing to tussle about and explore new territory with a peer, and quite another to have an adult predator working his agenda on you.

Sophus, I am seeking your compassion for her. Do you have any?

I have compassion for rape victims. But the way I see it, this girl is not one of them. She was willing was she not? Had it been a teenage boy having relations with an attractive woman of legal age we would not be discussing whether or not he was a victim.

Quote from: "Sophus"I have compassion for rape victims. But the way I see it, this girl is not one of them. She was willing was she not? Had it been a teenage boy having relations with an attractive woman of legal age we would not be discussing whether or not he was a victim.

I think a crime was committed, and that the pastor should be held accountable but I don't think he should get the same punishment as someone who forces an unwilling participant to have sex.  He will also be registered as a pedophile, which I think is also wrong - talking 16-year-olds into sex is not the same as molesting a child.  I think it's more on the level of contributing to the delinquency of a minor or something along those lines.  There was a level of ability to say no.  She was not afraid for her life, she was not physically overpowered.  He used positive enticement, or seduction rather than terrorism.  He held out the carrot of closeness to God rather than threatening to hurt her or kill her daddy or something.

Being seduced then regretting it afterward isn't rape.

I think this is an important distinction to me.  It's like the difference between a confidence man taking your money with a scam and a smile and an armed robber beating the crap out of you and taking your money.  Both are illegal, both are wrong but they are different crimes.

I think this distinction is important to me because considering a regrettable seduction equivalent to rape diminishes the crime of rape in my opinion.  I spent nine days in a coma after a brutal sexual assault.  I think that's different than if a trusted person had talked me into sex.  Even without the added element of extreme violence, if the rape had been carried out without physical harm but through threat of harm, I still think it would be different than if a guy treated me nicely, flattered me and seduced me with promises and everyone, myself included felt it was a bad idea afterward.

I can't really go into what happened to me earlier at this point.  I have to be in a specific frame of mind to handle it.  But I can say that most people would agree that it doesn't equate to a sexually mature (if legally not mature) person getting seduced.

This pastor isn't apt to kidnap toddlers to molest.  He isn't apt to grab teens and drag them behind the shrubbery to penetrate.  He doesn't fit the profile.  Though he will be treated by society as if he had.  He will be unable to live near anywhere children gather.  The people who put me in a coma (if they were caught) would be able to serve their time in prison, get out, and live across the street from an elementary school - because I was two years older.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"I think a crime was committed, and that the pastor should be held accountable but I don't think he should get the same punishment as someone who forces an unwilling participant to have sex....

Being seduced then regretting it afterward isn't rape....

I think this is an important distinction to me.  It's like the difference between a confidence man taking your money with a scam and a smile and an armed robber beating the crap out of you and taking your money.  Both are illegal, both are wrong but they are different crimes.

You couldn't be more right. The con men/seducers are just as criminal, however their victims share some of the responsibility in their being victimized.

According to the story in the link, the perv committed statutory rape, sodomy, and child abuse against at least four different girls, starting at least as young as 12. This REALLY wasn't about seduction and consensual sex with a 16 year old. This was a manipulative, evil old perv acting out his power game on children. If it were up to me, he'd never see the light of day again.

Quote from: "Wraitchel"According to the story in the link, the perv committed statutory rape, sodomy, and child abuse against at least four different girls, starting at least as young as 12. This REALLY wasn't about seduction and consensual sex with a 16 year old. This was a manipulative, evil old perv acting out his power game on children. If it were up to me, he'd never see the light of day again.

I don't know how I missed that - I agree then, lock him up and never let him out.  Recidivism rates for pedophiles are horrible.

OK. Deep breath...
I have a confession to make. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say something that might change forever how you guys look at me, but I'm going to say it, because I feel it needs to be said. I can understand the mindset of a pedophile. Not the reasoning. When it comes to reasons to have sex with a child, there are none. I'd say it would be pretty stupid. But I can understand the desire. These guys have sexual energy all pent up, but they are unable to release it with normal age women who do possess sexual desires. I'm not sure if it's choice, genetics, psychology, or angst, but I can understand the desire.

That being said, I understand that most children have no desire to engage in sexual acts. They are innocent, and thus, not sexual beings. That's why I don't prey on them. Now, before you label me as a freak or anything, you should know that I can get by fine with having sex with women my age. But to other men who can not get off with real women, I sort of feel a sad, pathetic understanding of what they're going through. It's hard to resist a desire as intense as the sexual urge. I can deal with it because I can have sex with older women and be fine. But for guys who experience this desire for children that have no desire to reciprocate--it's tough.

That being said, I don't think they should force their dicks on any young 6-year old girls. Really, these guys are just fucked up, because they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. But my reasoning sides with the children. They're not interested in sex. Therefore you shouldn't have sex with them.

I realize this comes as a pretty big shock to some of you(maybe). This little confession of mine could land me in your enmity. Well, if it'll help, you should know that I've never had sex with a girl under eighteen, and while I can understand the desires of a pedophile, I've been alone with my share of children(mostly due to reasonable circumstaces, I swear), and I have never taken advantage of them. I don't go out looking for children. I don't go out of my way to befriend them. I have adult friends, teenage friends, and the only child friends I have are my neices or nephews, which I've never taken advantage of.

I guess I'm pretty scared here. Lots of people would automatically assume I was a pedophile or a child predator if they heard this. But It's not like that. all I have is the understanding. That's all.  

I'm sorry if you guys hate me after this.

There's a huge difference between thoughts and actions.  If we were guilty of everything we've ever thought of doing we'd be a bloody sorry bunch.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"There's a huge difference between thoughts and actions.  If we were guilty of everything we've ever thought of doing we'd be a bloody sorry bunch.

it's good to know you don't think I'm a sick freak.  

Quote from: "Sophus"Honestly, I don't know which is the greater fool. The perverted pastor or the 16 year old girl who believed him.

Isn't it good to know that Jesus loves this man more than you and me because he believes in him? lol

Couldn't have said it better.    

Quote from: "Wechtlein Uns"

Quote from: "Kylyssa"There's a huge difference between thoughts and actions.  If we were guilty of everything we've ever thought of doing we'd be a bloody sorry bunch.

it's good to know you don't think I'm a sick freak.  :)

Quote from: "VietnamVet-BRIGHT"Yet another story of a pastor abusing his make believe power to coerce sex with vunerable, gullible children.  

In this case like others, the victim told police that the pastor would "take her into the church office after Sunday service and tell her having sex with him would bring her closer to God."

People, we desperately need some Federal laws to protect children in Christian churches to stop this.  Christian churches have proven time and time again to pose a continuing danger to children who are easy prey for sexual molestation by pastors, ministers and priests.

I can respect your need to want Federal laws; however, I'm going to be honest, I am not American, so my view is from the outside looking in. What I see is more of a need to communicate the danger of these predators to our children ourselves, not necessarily leave the job to the government to impose. It's our children's human right to have protection and I feel this should start in the home. It's our own responsibility as parents to address these issues and make them aware of these dangers, provide support and guidance and teach them boundaries and how to set them for themselves. Paedophiles are present in every culture and abuse won't stop just because of a law.

Wow, this thread got really heavy really fast.  

I agree with kylyssa over the need to distinguish between rapes from stautory rape.

Out of interest Wechtlein Uns, do you feel, "man I wish I could *** that kid, but I won't becuase I will get in trouble" or do you just empathise with the position of someone who is attracted to kids and may or may not act on it? I would argue that for a true pedophile, having sex with women is no more a subsitute for sex with children that masturbation is. Put another way, gay guys aren't gay becuase they cant have sex with women, but becuase they love the cock, even given a willing a female, a gay man would still refuse sex with her.

When you say you understand the desire, does this mean you find child like features attractive, or do you simply undersand how someone could find something like that attractive?

I'm not on the road to persecution here btw, you just made a rather frank statement rather boldly and I would be interested to know more.

Edit: Possibly in bad taste, but didn't she know not to have sex before marriage?

Quote from: "SSY"Wow, this thread got really heavy really fast.  

I agree with kylyssa over the need to distinguish between rapes from stautory rape.

Out of interest Wechtlein Uns, do you feel, "man I wish I could *** that kid, but I won't becuase I will get in trouble" or do you just empathise with the position of someone who is attracted to kids and may or may not act on it? I would argue that for a true pedophile, having sex with women is no more a subsitute for sex with children that masturbation is. Put another way, gay guys aren't gay becuase they cant have sex with women, but becuase they love the cock, even given a willing a female, a gay man would still refuse sex with her.

When you say you understand the desire, does this mean you find child like features attractive, or do you simply undersand how someone could find something like that attractive?

I'm not on the road to persecution here btw, you just made a rather frank statement rather boldly and I would be interested to know more.

Edit: Possibly in bad taste, but didn't she know not to have sex before marriage?

Love your new avatar.

I believe it's a sexuality all on its own. I do have some sympathy for them. They don't choose the attraction they choose whether or not to act upon it. Obviously I do not condone the behavior though as it has severe effects on the child.

Quote from: "LARA"Unfortunately, I don't think there could be a practical law to protect kids that could be exclusively applied to just clergy.  If you look at the education system a lot of problems show up there, too.  The sick thing is where there are kids that's where pedophiles end up.  They are drawn to kids.  And the smart ones use their authority to abuse kids and hide the truth behind Christianity or some other positive label.

I agree, I don't think there could be a practical law either, it narrows down to where the responsibility should be placed. Do we protect our children by hiding the ugly truth from them or do we make them aware of it and teach them how to protect themselves? This isn't just an issue in the Christian community, this happens globally.

Quote from: "LARA"Adults warp the minds of little kids with religious craziness so they can have power over them, "for their own good", and then some predator waltzes in and does this.  They kind of are setting up the perfect situation for their kids to be abused by imposing obedience to a higher power taken solely on faith that can't be questioned.  It's no wonder these kids do what they are told when a pedophile targets them.  They are basically defenseless mentally.  Part of their vulnerability is that they don't question the pedophile because he or she has authority.

Again, I agree, all the more reasons why we should be promoting awareness. Paedophiles target children because they are unable to choose healthy, vital life choices for themselves. Because paedophiles target children, it makes all the more sense that we teach them how to protect themselves - we can't be around them 24/7. We need to teach them how to choose the right life choices because without it no law will ever be able to protect them.