Happy Atheist Forum

..."everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want" argument? (if you count that as an argument)

I seriously think that's bullshit since religion has an incredibly negative impact on society; I hear people saying it all the time... its tiring, overused, and frankly, quite frustrating,

Help me out developing a reasonable answer for this and I'll give ya' all a bunny for christmas!

I'm a libertarian, so my view is based on that. As far as I'm concerned, people have the right to believe whatever they want as long as they don't bother me by doing so.   I might think they are completely wrong and make fun of them for it, but my interest in the practical aspects of it stop there. Live and let live, I say. Unless they're Westboro. Those people need culled.

So you  haven't been bothered by theistics beliefs before? Maybe im being way TOO intolerant; Its just that that argument seems to lead the debate to a dead end and has no intellectual benefit at all.

PS: I like your avatar.

Quote from: "Santiago"So you  haven't been bothered by theistics beliefs before? Maybe im being way TOO intolerant; Its just that that argument seems to lead the debate to a dead end and has no intellectual benefit at all.

PS: I like your avatar.

Oh, they bother me. They bother the hell out of me. I think they're doing a terrible thing to themselves, their children and society as a whole. I'm talking about a different kind of "bother" and I suppose I should've clarified: as long as it doesn't affect the way I want to live my life, they can think they're purple and from outer space, for all I care. Unfortunately, so many theists (read: Christians) believe they are entitled to a world where they make the rules that it often does prevent me from living the way I want. That bothers me.

Much like Curiosity I basically think that anyone can believe what they want ... I don't care if that's a religious view a homophobic one, a racist one, a paedophilic one, as long as it is personal it's fine.

Everything changes the moment that person allows those views to affect others, by introducing them to the public domain ... at that point those views must be critically reviewed and treated appropriately.

In essence that means I respect everuyone's right to hold whatever belief they want but can only respect a given belief if it is supportable within a rational framework.

Unfortunately, being what they are, religions would die out if they kept their childish beliefs to themselves ... in order to survive they need new recruits so they are forced to get right in our faces spouting their rubbish and attempting to gain undeserved respectability and so, IMO, they are fair game.

Kyu

Why should I tolerate incorrect beliefs? Would you allow someone to spread lies about the nature of gravity, keplarian elements, chemistry, or thermodynamics? If someone told you they believed that 'cold' was an energy that creeps around and travels through some medium - would you not refute their claim?
And if I told you that the earth was flat, and I was willing to kill anyone who disagreed with me, would you not put a stop to such an unfounded belief?

Religious tolerance, allows both the moderate, and the extremists to believe in the same holy books. Until there is a free-thinking majority on this planet - we really won't be safe from those who pray for this world's end.

Yes, we should be intolerant - and yes, we should strive to educate the unreasonable.

In a world with weapons of mass destruction, religious tolerance threatens to destroy modern society.

This dude right here knows what im talking 'bout

Quote from: "BadPoison"Why should I tolerate incorrect beliefs? Would you allow someone to spread lies about the nature of gravity, keplarian elements, chemistry, or thermodynamics? If someone told you they believed that 'cold' was an energy that creeps around and travels through some medium - would you not refute their claim?
And if I told you that the earth was flat, and I was willing to kill anyone who disagreed with me, would you not put a stop to such an unfounded belief?

Religious tolerance, allows both the moderate, and the extremists to believe in the same holy books. Until there is a free-thinking majority on this planet - we really won't be safe from those who pray for this world's end.

Yes, we should be intolerant - and yes, we should strive to educate the unreasonable.

In a world with weapons of mass destruction, religious tolerance threatens to destroy modern society.

There is a world of difference between tolerance and acceptance.  I can tolerate a lot of things I won't accept.  

The only way to combat the things we can't tolerate (in my case religious belief that hurts people or affects legislation) is to educate.  That's because those types of belief are facets of ignorance and only education and knowledge can counteract ignorance.

Well, if we did get up in christian's faces and screamed at them and forcibly tried to "educate" them, I think there would be a war. A true religious war. Furthermore, christians seem to gain strength from the idea that they are persecuted. And it's a little late to threaten all christians with "death" in my opinion. Of course, they'll think they would go to heaven, who are we to tell them otherwise? lol.

seriously, though. Christians have strength in numbers, and as long as we don't get in their face, we won't be rounded up in concentration camps.

You can believe whatever you want but you cannot necessarily do whatever it is though beliefs encourage you to do.

Quote from: "Wechtlein Uns"Well, if we did get up in christian's faces and screamed at them and forcibly tried to "educate" them, I think there would be a war. A true religious war. Furthermore, christians seem to gain strength from the idea that they are persecuted. And it's a little late to threaten all christians with "death" in my opinion. Of course, they'll think they would go to heaven, who are we to tell them otherwise? lol.

seriously, though. Christians have strength in numbers, and as long as we don't get in their face, we won't be rounded up in concentration camps.

The education needs to be subtle.  We need to present a logical and ethical presence that more and more people will see.  We need to answer the people who ask questions and question the people who think they have all the answers.

I think everyone does have the right to believe what they want.  What they don't have a right to do is force that belief on others (that includes atheists too).

The right to believe and express differing viewpoints is the only reason any of us are allowed to talk about being an atheist.  We certainly would be hushed, or worse, quickly if most theists didn't think that people have a right to their own beliefs.

My response:

"I don't see reality as a matter of opinion, so excuse me if don't impose a "belief" upon it."

Quote from: "Arthur Dent"My response:

"I don't see reality as a matter of opinion, so excuse me if don't impose a "belief" upon."

Exactly. There's a rather large difference in two religions tolerating each other and me not tolerating what I see as insolence. The plethora of historical, archaeological, anthropological, biological and astronomical evidence that completely refutes most religions is ample reason for me to find these "beliefs" people have as not being worthy of my respect.

Give me one good reason I should "respect" someone's uneducated, and unfounded view that the earth is the center of the universe. Religious beliefs fall under the same category from where I'm sitting.

All of this talk about "letting people believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect anyone else" is rubbish. People's beliefs have a profound effect on their surroundings and their environment. There's no such thing as a "personal, private belief."

-BP

Quote from: "BadPoison"Give me one good reason I should "respect" someone's uneducated, and unfounded view

This day in age anyway. The ancients didn't know any better. WE DO.

"If you want to think like someone from the middle ages, expect to raise some eyebrows when you start talking about witches and demons... We know where that line of thought goes"

Quote from: "Santiago"..."everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want" argument

The 1st Amendment pretty much answered it.. (If you live in the U.S.)
But yes, everyone does.. Free will allows us to. Some may not like it (i.e. Ferdinand II of Aragon  and Isabella I of Castile during the Spanish Inquisition), but people still do/can, so yes, they can. But don't force others to believe in what you want; has failed before, will fail again.

I don't have to force anyone to believe in the laws of gravity.

Quote from: "BadPoison"I don't have to force anyone to believe in the laws of gravity.

More aptly, gravity isn't something you have to take on faith.

I don't think it's matter whether we have the "right" to do so. Everybody's going to believe what they want to believe period. Even if people don't have that right, it's not like you can stop them from doing so.

am I right?