Happy Atheist Forum

I shed my atheistic beliefs for two reasons.

1. I became a futurist.
2. I shared the same utopian ideals as God, i.e., I prefer to live in an environment where love is the only currency.  

http://markplain.com

I'm a bit of an armature futurist myself. I believe that it will take about 10 years for my house to be worth what it was about 3 years ago. I suspect that the US will not give up the drug war because there's oil in South America and they're next on the list after the Middle East. I'm virtually certain that the human race won't have permanent settlements on other planets until there is a global catastrophe here on Earth.

The Judeo-Christian God doesn't have Utopian ideals to speak of that I'm aware of. He is allowing us to suffer until his return, and then we live in a place which, when described, sounds shallow and empty. We live in a world of suffering and death because we are bearing the punishment of people that died thousands of years before we were born, and when God does finally come back, we live in a place with treasure, golden streets and other empty trinkets. Frankly, the only thing we seem to know about heaven is that God will be there, other dead people are there (but it's only their spirit), there's gold, mansions, and such, and it lasts forever. On what do you base your Utopian ideals?

Or are you talking about the teachings of Jesus?

Quote from: "johnny rocket"I shed my atheistic beliefs for two reasons.

1. I became a futurist.
2. I shared the same utopian ideals as God, i.e., I prefer to live in an environment where love is the only currency.  

That's one of the biggest mistakes theists make is that psychological connection of love with God. I advise reading The Art of Loving. I believe love is the most important thing in life too. Which is one reason why I left religion. It hindered me and all of its disciple from loving to the full capacity via prejudice thoughts. Thoughts that there's a right and a wrong; it judges actions instead of the heart and knows no alternatives. Plus it was so filled with doing acts out of obligation, rather we do things because we actually want to.

I agree that love is the way we should progress.  It's unfortunate that most religions have this agenda to convert or persecute others rather than embrace love.  What is a more powerful force in the world than unconditional love?

Quote from: "DennisK"What is a more powerful force in the world than unconditional love?

...gravity?  

hey, I thought being an atheist meant you were never forgiven, even if you returned to god? Y'know, the whole unforgivable sin?
Whatever. If there was a god like Jesus, I would gladly believe in him. But since he doesn't...

The ironic thing is that, if existing documents are correct, Jesus preached a very fine set of lessons on how to love: heal the sick, feed the poor, wash people's feet, exclude no one from your forgiveness and generosity, don't return violence for violence, love those that are hard to love, don't be a bigot, follow the golden rule, when going to a wedding, bring lots of wine...

So where did christians get the notion that his message was all about their pathetic and absolutely unimportant eternal souls? Jesus was a Jew...he didn't believe in heaven.

Like me, he did believe in working for social justice and spreading the love.

Quote from: "Wraitchel"Jesus was a Jew...he didn't believe in heaven.

You might want to read a Bible. And Jesus was a Judean, not a Jew.

Actually, he was of the Jewish faith for a time, sort of. One could even argue that he was always of the Jewish faith. Christianity really only surfaced maybe in the 100s, so anyone before then would be simply an off-shoot of Judaism. Assuming Jesus was real and preached what was recorded in the New Testament (which is an alarmingly large assumption), Jesus was the first in a new sect of Judaism that happened to develop into what's now considered a new religion many decades later.

Quote from: "Willravel"Jesus was the first in a new sect of Judaism that happened to develop into what's now considered a new religion many decades later.

I agree. But it is for that reason I think he can't be described as a Jew. We need a more specific term for him. Jesus is somewhere in between Judaism and Christianity since he was the crux of the entire transformation. Obviously he didn't agree with the Pharisees on quite a number of things.

Quote from: "johnny rocket"I shed my atheistic beliefs for two reasons.

1. I became a futurist.
2. I shared the same utopian ideals as God, i.e., I prefer to live in an environment where love is the only currency.  

1.  What's a futurist?
2.  Wouldn't that mean it would make more sense to be a hippie?  Make love not war.  I don't think that the biblical God has the idea that love is the only currency.  You can't throw out the OT just because parts of the NT sound good...at least not when God is supposed to be unchanging.

Quote from: "Sophus"I agree.

I never get tired of hearing that!  

Quote from: "Sophus"But it is for that reason I think he can't be described as a Jew. We need a more specific term for him. Jesus is somewhere in between Judaism and Christianity since he was the crux of the entire transformation. Obviously he didn't agree with the Pharisees on quite a number of things.

I guess the real question is what constituted Judaism around 2000 years ago? Monotheism based on the teachings of Jewish prophets? Check. Following the teachings of the Torah? Check. Following existing Jewish law? Check.

Way back when I was Christian, I had some alarming disagreements with the church, particularly regarding homosexuality, the death penalty, female preachers, and a slew of other issues. I still believed in the divinity of Jesus Christ and such, though. I believed (for whatever reason) that Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I was just a fantastically liberal Christian.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"1.  What's a futurist?
2.  Wouldn't that mean it would make more sense to be a hippie?  Make love not war.  I don't think that the biblical God has the idea that love is the only currency.  You can't throw out the OT just because parts of the NT sound good...at least not when God is supposed to be unchanging.

Oh brilliant! I was sitting here thinking how do I say these things and not come across as aggressive? Well done

Kyu

Quote from: "Willravel"Actually, he was of the Jewish faith for a time, sort of. One could even argue that he was always of the Jewish faith. Christianity really only surfaced maybe in the 100s, so anyone before then would be simply an off-shoot of Judaism. Assuming Jesus was real and preached what was recorded in the New Testament (which is an alarmingly large assumption), Jesus was the first in a new sect of Judaism that happened to develop into what's now considered a new religion many decades later.

You're talking about him as though he existed.

Quote from: "johnny rocket"I shed my atheistic beliefs for two reasons.

1. I became a futurist.
2. I shared the same utopian ideals as God, i.e., I prefer to live in an environment where love is the only currency.  

http://markplain.com

So you're another spammer? You posted the very same in the Atheistic Forums.

Kyu

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"So you're another spammer? You posted the very same in the Atheistic Forums.

Kyu

Maybe he's just trying to, you know... share the wealth.  

Has he been around lately?

Another hit and run troll, I guess.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"So you're another spammer? You posted the very same in the Atheistic Forums.

Kyu

Maybe he's just trying to, you know... share the wealth.  

Maybe, but I am immediately suspicious of anyone who does that unless they are in need of help (such as IT support) or they make it clear they are cross-posting.

Kyu

Aw, c'mon, if they admit from the get-go that they're just trolling, then where's the fun of calling them out?  

Well, in case the OP doesn't return....what is a futurist?  I thought those were the people who thought we'd meld our minds with computers or something like that.  If I am right, what does that have to do with being a Christian?

Quote from: "laetusatheos"Well, in case the OP doesn't return....what is a futurist?  I thought those were the people who thought we'd meld our minds with computers or something like that.  If I am right, what does that have to do with being a Christian?

Hmm. I have no idea what it has to do with christianity but i've always liked futurism, or futurology as the Brits call it.
Basically, it is the study of current patterns of social and industrial human evolution, then applying that to how we will evolve in the forseeable future. Obviously most of it takes a massive leap of faith as you can't really predict stuff like the internet (although William Gibson came astonishingly close). It is very interesting although the success rate for predictions is quite low. You can predict advancements in technology easier than you can wars etc..

Aw, so it's basically just making educated guesses on the future.  Hmm, I don't see how that could make someone become a Christian.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"Aw, so it's basically just making educated guesses on the future.  Hmm, I don't see how that could make someone become a Christian.

And any other reason is more convincing?  

Quote from: "laetusatheos"Aw, so it's basically just making educated guesses on the future.  Hmm, I don't see how that could make someone become a Christian.

Me neither

Quote from: "johnny rocket"I shed my atheistic beliefs for two reasons.

1. I became a futurist.
2. I shared the same utopian ideals as God, i.e., I prefer to live in an environment where love is the only currency.   :eek:

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Aw, c'mon, if they admit from the get-go that they're just trolling, then where's the fun of calling them out?

I don't find it fun.

Kyu

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Aw, c'mon, if they admit from the get-go that they're just trolling, then where's the fun of calling them out?

I don't find it fun.

Kyu

I hear MDMA helps.

 

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"I don't find it fun.

I hear MDMA helps.

What? Like ecstasy?

I don't get it.

Kyu

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"I don't find it fun.

I hear MDMA helps.

What? Like ecstasy?

I don't get it.

Kyu

Yeah!

Whatever it was you don't find fun, you will after taking some MDMA

Quote from: "karadan"Whatever it was you don't find fun, you will after taking some MDMA

It was entirely his own fault but I lost my brother last year to a recreational drug just over a year ago so you'll forgive me if I don't find that particularly amusing. Suffice it to say I don't do those kind of drugs.

Kyu

I cant undrestand how someone who was an atheist (knew that god aint real - saw the impossibility of it) turned to be a theist. I just cant understand it, sorry

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"

Quote from: "karadan"Whatever it was you don't find fun, you will after taking some MDMA

It was entirely his own fault but I lost my brother last year to a recreational drug just over a year ago so you'll forgive me if I don't find that particularly amusing. Suffice it to say I don't do those kind of drugs.

Kyu

My apologies. There was no way i could know.
It was simply an attempt to make light of a situation regarding the fun we can have with trolls.

As I get older, I find troll beating to be less and less fun.

But maybe I shouldn't mention old age. That would be distasteful, considering that your grandfather died of it last year.

Although old age isn't innately bad, and although it can be a wonderful experience for those who know what they're doing, every time someone makes a joke about old age,you should mention your dead grandfather because it is relevant and they shouldn't be disrespecting him, right?

It is appropriate for you to kill dead every conversation that touches on old age in a less than serious way. It is appropriate for you to do this. It is, isn't it?

Quote from: "dodgecity"As I get older, I find troll beating to be less and less fun.

But maybe I shouldn't mention old age. That would be distasteful, considering that your grandfather died of it last year.

Although old age isn't innately bad, and although it can be a wonderful experience for those who know what they're doing, every time someone makes a joke about old age,you should mention your dead grandfather because it is relevant and they shouldn't be disrespecting him, right?

It is appropriate for you to kill dead every conversation that touches on old age in a less than serious way. It is appropriate for you to do this. It is, isn't it?

You remind me of one of the best jokes I ever pulled of.

It was quite a while back that I attended a gig by a band, whose drummer was one of my friends. After the gig I joined the band. Only the drummer knew me. When I joined them they were in the middle of telling jokes. In fact they were telling nazi and hitler jokes. I kept a straight face and concentrated hard not to laugh at any of them. After a few jokes my friend, the drummer asked me : Hey, why aren't you laughing. I replied: "My grandfather died in a concentration camp." I probably needn't tell you the atmosphere dropped to a freeze instantly and an "ow shit" could clearly be heard. Waiting just long enough, I continued : "... he fell from the watch tower."

Laughs all around. (The singer swore he'd get back at me some day)

Jokes are a way of putting things in perspective, and I can tell you : I've heard the best handicap jokes from a guy in a wheel chair.

Quote from: "bowmore"

Quote from: "dodgecity"As I get older, I find troll beating to be less and less fun.

But maybe I shouldn't mention old age. That would be distasteful, considering that your grandfather died of it last year.

Although old age isn't innately bad, and although it can be a wonderful experience for those who know what they're doing, every time someone makes a joke about old age,you should mention your dead grandfather because it is relevant and they shouldn't be disrespecting him, right?

It is appropriate for you to kill dead every conversation that touches on old age in a less than serious way. It is appropriate for you to do this. It is, isn't it?

You remind me of one of the best jokes I ever pulled of.

It was quite a while back that I attended a gig by a band, whose drummer was one of my friends. After the gig I joined the band. Only the drummer knew me. When I joined them they were in the middle of telling jokes. In fact they were telling nazi and hitler jokes. I kept a straight face and concentrated hard not to laugh at any of them. After a few jokes my friend, the drummer asked me : Hey, why aren't you laughing. I replied: "My grandfather died in a concentration camp." I probably needn't tell you the atmosphere dropped to a freeze instantly and an "ow shit" could clearly be heard. Waiting just long enough, I continued : "... he fell from the watch tower."

Laughs all around. (The singer swore he'd get back at me some day)

Jokes are a way of putting things in perspective, and I can tell you : I've heard the best handicap jokes from a guy in a wheel chair.

Haha!!

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"1.  What's a futurist?
2.  Wouldn't that mean it would make more sense to be a hippie?  Make love not war.  I don't think that the biblical God has the idea that love is the only currency.  You can't throw out the OT just because parts of the NT sound good...at least not when God is supposed to be unchanging.

Oh brilliant! I was sitting here thinking how do I say these things and not come across as aggressive? Well done

Kyu

Brilliant, brilliant! I was wondering the same things. I second the notion (what laetusatheos said) that being a hippie would make more sense in this case. I consider myself a 'modern day' hippie of sorts. And I love love, but don't believe in god...I don't understand what he is getting at.

@bowmore: Hahaha, wow, I think my joke pales in comparison with that.

But I do agree that jokes can be used to say something in a way that can't be expressed by any other form of rhetoric.

Quote from: "dodgecity"@bowmore: Hahaha, wow, I think my joke pales in comparison with that.

But I do agree that jokes can be used to say something in a way that can't be expressed by any other form of rhetoric.

Indeed. It is also a way people cope with things which are very difficult to digest otherwise.

I think it is very important to be able to laugh at yourself especially if you have made a mistake.

Well, I don't know if our spammer/troll is coming back or not, but his link was rather interesting.

And Kyu, I don't know if you mentioned it before and I simply missed it, but I am very sorry to hear about your brother's death. Isn't it weird how we use the term "recreational drug" as if it is something that is just for fun, benign, or otherwise a lark? I know why we distinguish between that and really hard-core addiction, but it can obviously be just as tragic and deadly. Very sad.

Hey everyone, haven't posted in this thread in a while.  

Bowmore, that was a very funny joke. I'm never funny when I try to be, which is why you won't see me posting a joke of my own right now, as my mind is blank. It always get's like that, since I'm older than dirt, and dirt is older than my best friends mom, and no that's not a joke. Ok, I'm actually 19. Whatever. >_>

I like humor. don't you? I think it's very important to be able to laugh, but sometimes I think joking can numb the brain and make it difficult to think intelligently. For some reason, when I've been laughing non-stop at internet humor, I swear my personal IQ drops 10 points. Maybe because the brain is better suited to thinking when it's under stress and pessimism, while when you're in euphoria you can hardly think straight to verbally abuse the poor bastard who thinks he can get one over on you.

Makes sense, I think. I always do better at chess when I'm in a lousy mood and want to crush my opponent. I guess you can't have the best of both worlds, huh?

It may not be that complicated. I see God is a rational guy operating exclusively within the practical realm.

For specific details, read the 4 page "Futurist Series", starting with the Free Crown Point problem:

http://markplain.com/free_crown_point.aspx

Quote from: "karadan"My apologies. There was no way i could know.
It was simply an attempt to make light of a situation regarding the fun we can have with trolls.

No worries, I just have difficulty laughing at that kind of stuff because of events personal to me.

This guy is a total troll ... I haven't visited his website but it seems to me that he must be selling something he seems so determined to get us to go to his site.

Kyu

Quote from: "johnny rocket"I shed my atheistic beliefs for two reasons.

1. I became a futurist.
2. I shared the same utopian ideals as God, i.e., I prefer to live in an environment where love is the only currency.  

http://markplain.com

Non sequitur/appeal to consequences

I finally went to that website of his. Pretty interesting...not.

end of thread. R. I. P.

 

How ironic...perhaps one the greatest philosophies ever devised by atheists is being ignored by earthbound atheists.

http://markplain.com/hro_scenario.aspx

I add links because,

1. they are faster to compose.
2. the web pages are already complete and formatted with numerous graphics.
3. it would be impolite to tax the forum resources unnecessarily.

HAIL XENU

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "DennisK"What is a more powerful force in the world than unconditional love?

...gravity?  

The strong nuclear force!

Quote from: "DennisK"What is a more powerful force in the world than unconditional love?

Megalomaniacal hatred?  

Kyu