I have been doing some brainstorming concerning the improbable validity of the bible. These are my thoughts so far, but they need sharpening, so I appreciate feedback, from deluded and non deluded alike.
I am aware that for thoughts of a mathematical premise, these are far too abstract to begin to calculate, but I bring up the things I do because the deluded can relate to these. (I believe that the morality of people can conquer their delusions, as well as logic. Was it a mistake to try and fuse the two?)
I was having a conversation with a believer and after I would bring up each horrible characteristic that the bible reveals about god, he would shrug and say "Well, you got a point."
It went unsaid that "the point" I had was not enough to make him question the validity of the bible.
He would say this after every point I would bring up, as if each point were in a vacuum.
At the end of our conversation, I tried to help him understand that it was all these points added together that made an utterly convincing case against the validity of the bible.
But after some thinking, later that night, I realized that the points should not be added, but multiplied.
I know there are many smart people who were unlucky enough to be lied to as children and deep down when they hear our arguments, they too say "they have a point."
I hope they can truly realize how these points come together to prove that the bible could not have possibly been "god inspired."
Ok, so here goes.
As a mere thought experiment, let's attempt to calculate the improbability of the validity of the bible. In order to do this, we must make a couple assumptions:
# 1 - That for any claims of the bible to be true based on the bible, all of the claims of the bible must be true. We can make this assumption, in part, because of the bible's self proclaimed inerrancy. (Disregarding the fact that some claims of the bible may be true for other reasons than the fact that the bible says so. And therefore, the validity of some claims does not prove the validity of the bible, but the validity of all claims would verify the validity of the bible in its entirety.)
# 2 - That the concept of probability and chance is a valid one and that the probability of multiple claims' validity is calculated by multiplying the probability of each.
I realize the problem of inaccuracy in such calculations. So to prove a point, we will be very generous with our calculations of these improbabilities. The point of this mind exercise is to help you realize that when a religious group brings forth an old book that they claim is the only source of truth and is inerrant and God inspired, the probability that it possesses all of these characteristics shrinks exponentially with each flaw found because of the unique claim that it is not only accurate but inerrant.
Now let us peruse through various claims, the validity of which may be improbable.
QuoteClaim #1 - An omnipotent, all powerful, loving, and just creator decided that the criteria for eternal damnation would be this and this alone: the rejection of his Son, Jesus Christ.
Now based on the current religious demographic of the world, we can estimate with some accuracy the probability of an individual accepting Jesus and all that entails, depending on which country that individual happened to be born into. For example, an individual born in Mexico is 99% likely to accept Jesus and hence not subject to eternal damnation, whereas an individual born in China is only 5.7% likely to accept Jesus and forgo hell.
Knowing this, what conclusions can we draw about the probability that a just god would run a universe in this manner and base the criteria for eternal suffering on something so arbitrary and unfair? Again, for the sake of proving a point, I'm going to be very generous here and conclude that it's 50% likely that this is a valid claim.
QuoteClaim #2 - Yahweh and Jesus Christ are both God.
Because of the enormous and frightening discrepancy between Jesus Christ and Yahweh, in terms of moral judgment, personality, and actions, the probability that they are one and the same is very small. But again, we will be all too generous and conclude that this claim is 50% likely to be true.
Now, any person with basic numeracy and an understanding of probability and chance knows that if each of these claims' validity is 50% probable, the probability that they are both valid is a mere 25%. (.50 x .50 = .25)
This pattern suggests that truth would not and could not be handed down to us through a man written book. It's backwards thinking, and it's ridiculous. Everyday, everything you experience, all the little truths you learn, show that this is simply not how it works. We have many holy books that claim to be the one truth, so by what criteria do we choose which to believe in? The reality is that in terms of probability, it is most likely that none of the holy books are true, because a book claiming to be completely true and holy in so improbable in itself. But let's continue.
QuoteClaim #3 - God is both perfectly moral and sexist.
I will not go into detail into proving that God is sexist because it's been done before and that is not the focus of this thread. But again, let's be sickeningly generous here and say that this ridiculous claim is 50% likely to be valid.
It is 12.5% likely that all three of the previous claims are valid.
Please don't consider this to be some math trick that you can just blow off. It is fundamentally revealing in that it shows that a holy book of truth is a completely improbable concept and nothing else in nature or in the realm of human activities exists that is so strikingly improbable in itself.
QuoteClaim #4 - God is both perfectly moral and racist.
Yahweh chose one race of people to support and commanded them to overtake and kill all the other races. It doesn't get much more racist than that. This whole biblical idea of "the chosen people" stinks with racism and injustice. What kind of a god would "choose" a race of people to be his when he created them all? Certainly not a perfectly moral god. But again, for the benefit of the doubt, we will conclude that the validity of this claim is 50% likely.
It is 6.25% likely that all four of the previous claims are valid.
QuoteClaim #5 - Yahweh and Jesus Christ are both perfectly moral, yet they are emphatic proponents of slavery.
I and several others have already shown that the latter is true, so let's go ahead and say that this is 50% likely to be valid, for the sake of argument, although in reality the likelyhood is much lower.
It is 3.125% likely that all five of the previous claims are valid.
The meaning of these numbers is clear. You cannot put all of your trust into a particular book and then go from there. When you set something aside as holy, untouchable, and unquestionable, it most certainly will not lead to a more accurate perception of reality, also known as truth. This is the fundamental difference between science and religion.
I know there are many fundamental flaws in the bible but for the sake of brevity, I will stop here. The main purpose of this thread is to show believers how very reasonable is it to doubt the validity of the bible. The amalgamation of all these fundamental flaws gives great reason to think twice about what we believe and why. With every fundamental flaw in the bible that goes against everything we believe to be good and accurate about the world and ourselves, the probability that the claims of the bible are true shrinks at an alarmingly exponential rate, even if we are overly generous and give it the benefit of the doubt for every fundamental flaw.
That makes a lot of sense, but I doubt you'll get much reaction by posting that here, sadly. Perhaps you could post it in a christian forum?
@Wechtlein Uns: I don't like posting my stuff on multiple forums, even when I write the stuff, I still feel like a troll. (or at least insincere) Besides, I really consider this my "home" for free thought and I wrote it with happy atheist in mind, because I'm always challenged here. When I first became an atheist, I was under the silly impression that I would find people on my "side" here, but now I understand that there are no "sides" for freethinkers. To pick a side is to stop thinking. Anyway, my point is, even though the majority of people here are atheists, I don't believe that the majority of them agree with my rationale, so there is still a chance to be sharpened by others.
Besides, I try to have a healthy balance of speaking and listening, and for the past few months, I've been very inactive as far as speaking goes. (shame on me)
Also, I'm beginning to think that confronting the most opposing opposition isn't necessarily the most efficacious in terms of challenging myself to think. In other words, believers tend to cause pure frustration for me, while opposing free thinkers force me to think.
Sorry if none of that makes sense.
This is a nice concept. You could even take it further with more claims until we reach a ridiculously small number. To the average Christian this would probably go in one ear and out the other. Or fly over their heads causing them to respond, "Oh you think you're smarter than God." Or "God is too great to be put into an equation." But save this for Titan's return. We should get a more interesting reaction.
QuoteThis is a nice concept.
Thanks. It came to me after I finished
Innumeracy, a great book by the way.
QuoteYou could even take it further with more claims until we reach a ridiculously small number.
Indeed. One could even go as far as to grant the believer the assumption that all of the claims are mostly probable, like 75% or even 99%, and we could still bring it down to almost nothing.
For example, let's say that we found a hundred claims in the bible that were each 99% likely to be true. (which would not be difficult)
.99^100 = 0.366032341
37% is pretty damn low.
This concept, for me, is the adhesive for all things corrupt, incoherent, or inaccurate within the bible.