Title: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: perspective on December 12, 2008, 07:56:32 PM
Post by: perspective on December 12, 2008, 07:56:32 PM
Please point out anything you might think is a contridiction in the Bible, and I will do my best to explain it.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:04:55 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:04:55 PM
Here ya go (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html). Knock yourself out.
[spoiler:2233g3ij]1. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill?
2. Was Abraham justified by faith or by works?
3. How many sons did Abraham have?
4. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech?
5. Who was Abijam's mother?
6. How were Abijam and Asa related?
7. How long was the ark of the covenant at Abinadab's house?
8. How old was Abram when Ishmael was born?
9. How many sons did Absalom have?
10. When did Absalom rebel against David?
11. The two contradictory creation accounts.
12. Who was Achan's father?
13. How many of Adin's offspring returned from Babylon?
14. How many of Adonikam's offspring returned from Babylon?
15. How should adultery be punished?
16. Is it wrong to commit adultery?
17. Was Haman an Agagite?
18. Was Ahaz buried with his fathers?
19. When did Ahaziah begin to reign?
20. How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
21. Did the city of Ai exist after Joshua destroyed it?
22. What tribe was Aijalon from?
23. Does God want some to go to hell?
24. Did Jesus tell his disciples everything?
25. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob?
26. Who was Amasa's father?
27. How should the Ammonites be treated?
28. Who was Anah?
29. How long does God's anger last?
30. Should you answer a fool according to his folly?
31. What were the names of the apostles?
32. Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples after the resurrection?
33. How many of Arah's offspring returned from Babylon?
34. What was in the ark of the covenant?
35. Was Asa perfect?
36. Did Asa remove the high places?
37. How many of Asaph's offspring returned from Babylon?
38. When did Jesus ascend into heaven?
39. Did Peter ask Jesus where he was going?
40. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem?
41. Is the day of the Lord at hand?
42. How many of Azgad's offspring returned from Babylon?
43. When did Baasha die?
44. How many languages were there before the Tower of Babel was built?
45. How many of Bani's offspring returned from Babylon?
46. In whose name is baptism to be performed?
47. Did Jesus baptize anyone?
48. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff?
49. Who was to blame for original sin?
50. Who was Bashemath's father?
51. What was the volume of the molten sea in Solomon's temple?
52. How many of Bebai's offspring returned from Babylon?
53. Who named Beersheba?
54. Where did Joseph and Mary live before the birth of Jesus?
55. Should we believe everything?
56. How many believers were there at the time of the ascension?
57. How old was Benjamin when his clan migrated to Egypt?
58. Who were the sons of Benjamin?
59. Were Naaman and Ard the sons or the grandsons of Benjamin?
60. Who asked Jesus for the best seats in heaven?
61. How many of Bethlehem and Netophah's offspring returned from Babylon?
62. How many of Bezai's offspring returned from Babylon?
63. How many of Bigvai's offspring returned from Babylon?
64. Who makes people deaf and blind?
65. How many blind men were healed near Jericho?
66. Does the blood of animal sacrifices take away sin?
67. Should every man bear his own burden?
68. Who buried Jesus?
69. On what day did the temple burn?
70. Did God command the Israelites to make him burnt offerings?
71. Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush?
72. What became of Cain?
73. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first?
74. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered?
75. Can God do anything?
76. How long was the Egyptian Captivity?
77. Is casting out devils a sign of a true Christian?
78. Is it OK to have a census?
79. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant?
80. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died?
81. How high was the chapiter?
82. How many men did David kill?
83. Is childbearing sinful?
84. Is it a a good thing to be childish?
85. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest?
86. Is circumcision required?
87. To whom were the cities of Exhtaol and Zoreah given?
88. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial?
89. What color was Jesus' robe?
90. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection?
91. Is God the author of confusion?
92. Is it OK to covet?
93. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice?
94. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion?
95. Is it OK to curse people?
96. Will God curse the earth?
97. Are those who obey the law cursed?
98. Who carried Jesus' cross?
99. Generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity
100. How did David kill Goliath?
101. The sons of David born in Hebron
102. Did David sin?
103. Which sons of David born in Jerusalem?
104. From which of David's sons was Jesus descended?
105. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre?
106. Did Adam die on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
107. Is death final?
108. How many of Delaiah, Tobiah, and Nekoda's offspring returned from Babylon?
109. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus?
110. Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?
111. Can the devil capture us at will?
112. Is the devil free to roam?
113. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus?
114. Does God desire animal sacrifices?
115. Must everyone die?
116. Is divorce ever permissible?
117. Does anyone do anything good?
118. Who put the robe on Jesus?
119. Did Jesus drink on the cross?
120. When did the earth dry after the flood?
121. Does God dwell in darkness or in light?
122. Will the earth last forever?
123. What kind of animals may we eat?
124. How should the Edomites be treated?
125. Did Lot's daughters think God had killed every man?
126. Did Luke include everything that Jesus did?
127. Did Jesus, Mary, and Joseph go to Egypt or Nazareth?
128. Did the eleven disciples believe the two men?
129. Who did Elhanan kill?
130. Was John the Baptist Elijah?
131. When will the end of the world come?
132. How should we treat our enemies?
133. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven?
134. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam?
135. Will Ephraim return to Egypt?
136. When was Eve created?
137. Is everyone descended from Adam and Eve?
138. Is God the creator of evil?
139. Do evildoers prosper?
140. Did Moses see God face to face?
141. Is Salvation by faith alone?
142. Were the men with Paul knocked to the ground?
143. Is it possible to fall from grace?
144. How many years of famine?
145. Is is OK to call your father (or anyone else) father?
146. Did Moses fear the king?
147. Should we look for signs in the heavens?
148. Should we fear God?
149. Who bought the potter's field?
150. When did the cursed fig tree die?
151. When did Jesus curse the fig tree?
152. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead?
153. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance?
154. How long was the ark afloat?
155. How long did the flood last?
156. Did everyone (except for Noah and his family) die in the flood?
157. Will the righteous flourish?
158. Which flying creeping things may we eat?
159. Is it OK to call someone a fool?
160. Is it good to be foolish?
161. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve?
162. How many generations from Jesus to Abraham?
163. Can God be found?
164. From what were the fowls created?
165. Do humans have free will?
166. Were the disciples frightened or gladdened when they saw Jesus?
167. Does God ever get furious?
168. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs Lk.3)
169. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs 1 Chr.)
170. When was the Holy Ghost given?
171. Does God ever lie?
172. Does God love everyone?
173. Does God know what is everyone's heart?
174. How many gods are there?
175. How much gold, silver, and clothing did the people give?
176. Who killed Goliath?
177. Is anyone good?
178. Who was greater: Jesus, Solomon, or John the Baptist?
179. Is it OK for men to have long hair?
180. Is it good to be happy?
181. Was Mary Magdalene happy or sad when she saw the risen Jesus?
182. Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart?
183. Should we follow our own heart?
184. When was heaven created?
185. Does God help in times of need?
186. How many talents of gold did Hiram send Solomon?
187. Is only God holy?
188. Who sent the Holy Ghost?
189. How should homosexuals be treated?
190. Where did Aaron die?
191. How many horsemen did David take?
192. At what time of day was Jesus crucified?
193. Does God approve of human sacrifices?
194. Were humans created before or after the other animals?
195. Which tribe was Hyram from?
196. Was Zechariah Iddo's son or grandson?
197. Is it OK to make images?
198. Which came first: the calling of Peter and Andrew or the imprisonment of John the Baptist?
199. Is incest forbidden?
200. Are we punished for the sins of others?
201. Did Saul inquire of the Lord?
202. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when the women arrived?
203. Will God destroy those that intermarry?
204. Can God stop iron chariots?
205. How old was Ishmael when he was abandoned by Abraham?
206. Who bought the sepulchre in Sechem from the sons of Hamor?
207. Where was Jacob buried?
208. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt?
209. Was Jarius' daughter alive when Jesus was approached?
210. Did Jeconiah have any sons?
211. Was Jechoniah the son or the grandson of Josiah?
212. When did Jehoash become king of Israel?
213. How old was Jehoachin when he began to reign?
214. Who succeeded Jehoiakim as king?
215. Did Jehoiakim die in Babylon or near Jerusalem?
216. Did Jehoshaphat remove the high places?
217. Did Abraham know God's name?
218. Was Jehu the son or grandson of Nimshi?
219. When was the man (or men) healed?
220. Did Paul go to Jerusalem from Damascus immediately after his conversion?
221. How many sons did Jesse have?
222. When was Jesus born?
223. Was Joseph the father of Jesus?
224. Did Jesus know everything?
225. Did Jesus bear witness of himself?
226. What will happen to Jews when they die?
227. Will there be many Jews?
228. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel?
229. Where was Joash buried?
230. Who brought evil on Job?
231. Who cast Jonah into the sea?
232. Where did John baptize?
233. Who was Jesus' grandfather on his father's side?
234. Where did Josiah die?
235. How did King Josiah die?
236. How long did Jotham reign?
237. How did Judas die?
238. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss?
239. To judge or not to judge.
240. Does Jesus judge people?
241. Has there ever been a just person?
242. Is anyone justified?
243. Was Keturah Abraham's wife or concubine?
244. To kill or not to kill.
245. Who was the father of Kish?
246. Does God know and see everything?
247. Who was Korah's father?
248. Who was Laban's father?
249. What were the last words of Jesus?
250. Should we obey human or divine law?
251. When did God kill Leviathan and the sea dragon?
252. Is it wrong to lie?
253. What is the human lifespan?
254. How many of Lod, Hadid, and Ono's offspring returned from Babylon?
255. Has the sun ever stood still in the sky for 24 hours?
256. Who is the Lord of this world?
257. Was Lot a righteous man?
258. Should we love or hate our brother?
259. Was Mahli the son of Levi?
260. Will everyone see the majesty of God?
261. Did Elisha receive Elijah's mantle before or after Elijah is taken up into heaven?
262. Is marriage a good thing?
263. Should Christians be concerned with material things?
264. Was Moses meek?
265. Is God merciful?
266. How many children did Michal have?
267. Did the Israelites kill every male in Midian?
268. How many people did God kill for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab"?
269. How did God say the Moabites should be treated?
270. Did any Moabite enter the congregation of the Lord?
271. Is money good or bad?
272. Who was Moses' father-in-law?
273. Was Moses a good speaker?
274. What's new?
275. What is the correct new moon sacrifice?
276. If God likes you, will everyone else like you too?
277. When did Noah enter the ark?
278. How should nonbelievers be treated?
279. Is it OK to take oaths?
280. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God?
281. How many officers did Solomon have?
282. How old was Abraham when he left Haran?
283. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived?
284. Do Christians need to obey Old Testament laws?
285. How many overseers did Solomon have?
286. Who owns the earth?
287. How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab's offspring returned from Babylon?
288. How should parents be treated?
289. How many days is unleavened bread to be eaten during the passover?
290. Was Jesus crucified the day before or the day after the Passover meal?
291. Did Paul see Jesus on the road to Damascus?
292. Did Paul visit all of the disciples when he went to Jerusalem after his conversion?
293. Is God warlike or peaceful?
294. Is the law of God perfect?
295. Who wrote the Pentateuch?
296. Were the Pharisees baptized by John?
297. Can women be church leaders?
298. How high were the pillars?
299. Were plants created before or after humans?
300. Should we try to please others?
301. How many children of the porters returned from Babylon?
302. How many men were possessed with devils?
303. What did Jesus do after his baptism?
304. How much power did Jesus have?
305. Do Christians know how to pray?
306. When David fled to Nob, what was the priest's name?
307. On what day of the month was Jehoiachin released from prison?
308. Should Christians pray in public?
309. Is every word of God pure?
310. Was Rahab saved by faith or works?
311. Who raised Jesus from the dead?
312. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all?
313. Can God be found through reason alone?
314. Did Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her?
315. Should we rejoice when we see our enemies suffer?
316. Is it OK for a divorced woman to remarry?
317. Does God repent?
318. Does God respect anyone?
319. Did both thieves revile Jesus?
320. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness?
321. Has there ever been a righteous person?
322. Does righteousness come from following the Law?
323. Is it necessary to keep the sabbath?
324. How should Sabbath-breakers be punished?
325. Who may offer sacrifices to God?
326. Who was the father of Salah?
327. Did the Samaritans receive Jesus?
328. Should the gospel be preached to everyone?
329. Who was Samuel's firstborn son?
330. Was Samuel a Ephraimite or a Levite?
331. Did Sarah have faith that she would conceive?
332. When did Satan enter Judas?
333. How did Saul die?
334. Did Saul's family die with him?
335. When did David meet Saul?
336. What must you do to be saved?
337. Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded?
338. Was Sisera asleep when he was murdered?
339. Is all scripture inspired by God?
340. Should we let others see our good works?
341. Can God be seen ?
342. How many of Senaah's offspring returned from Babylon?
343. Should you serve God alone?
344. What is the earth set upon?
345. How should a man who has sex with a menstruating woman be punished?
346. Do bad things happen to good people?
347. What did the sign over Jesus' head say?
348. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders?
349. What did Judas do with the silver?
350. Do Christians sin?
351. Where did Moses receive the Ten Commandments?
352. How many singing men and women returned from Babylon?
353. Were the men or angels inside the tomb sitting or standing?
354. What was Jesus' sixth commandment?
355. Does God sleep?
356. How many soldiers?
357. Who brought Joseph into Egypt?
358. How many sons did God have?
359. Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate?
360. Does God have a body?
361. How many stalls did Solomon have?
362. When were the stars made?
363. Is it wrong to steal?
364. How should strangers be treated?
365. Is Jesus peaceful ?
366. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection?
367. Did the women immediately tell the disciples?
368. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"?
369. Can God be tempted?
370. Who tempted David to number Israel?
371. Has God ever tempted anyone?
372. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God?
373. Can theives go to heaven?
374. How did God address Jesus at his baptism?
375. For How much did David by the threshing floor?
376. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus before his ascension?
377. When when did the transfiguration occur?
378. May Adam eat from any tree?
379. What were the twelve tribes of Israel?
380. How many animals of each kind did Noah take into the ark?
381. Is there an unforgivable sin?
382. Is it OK to marry unbelievers?
383. Where did God kill Uzza?
384. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink?
385. Did the men with Paul hear the voice?
386. Where did Moses get water from a rock?
387. Does God ever tire?
388. Was Jonah swallowed by a fish or a whale?
389. Who made the arc of the covenant?
390. Who wrote the (second set of) ten commandments?
391. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked?
392. Do the wicked live long?
393. Is God's will always done in heaven?
394. Is wisdom a good thing?
395. Does wisdom make people happy?
396. How many men were in the king's presence?
397. Who is for or against Jesus?
398. Who did the women see at the tomb?
399. How many women came to the sepulchre?
400. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand?
401. Can only God work wonders?
402. How are people judged by God?
403. How many of Zattu's offspring returned from Babylon?
404. Who was Zechariah's father?
405. How was Zedekiah related to Nebuchadnezzar?
406. Did Zedekiah see the king of Babylon?
407. Who was Zerubbabel's father?
408. Where does God dwell?[/spoiler:2233g3ij]
[spoiler:2233g3ij]1. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill?
2. Was Abraham justified by faith or by works?
3. How many sons did Abraham have?
4. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech?
5. Who was Abijam's mother?
6. How were Abijam and Asa related?
7. How long was the ark of the covenant at Abinadab's house?
8. How old was Abram when Ishmael was born?
9. How many sons did Absalom have?
10. When did Absalom rebel against David?
11. The two contradictory creation accounts.
12. Who was Achan's father?
13. How many of Adin's offspring returned from Babylon?
14. How many of Adonikam's offspring returned from Babylon?
15. How should adultery be punished?
16. Is it wrong to commit adultery?
17. Was Haman an Agagite?
18. Was Ahaz buried with his fathers?
19. When did Ahaziah begin to reign?
20. How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
21. Did the city of Ai exist after Joshua destroyed it?
22. What tribe was Aijalon from?
23. Does God want some to go to hell?
24. Did Jesus tell his disciples everything?
25. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob?
26. Who was Amasa's father?
27. How should the Ammonites be treated?
28. Who was Anah?
29. How long does God's anger last?
30. Should you answer a fool according to his folly?
31. What were the names of the apostles?
32. Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples after the resurrection?
33. How many of Arah's offspring returned from Babylon?
34. What was in the ark of the covenant?
35. Was Asa perfect?
36. Did Asa remove the high places?
37. How many of Asaph's offspring returned from Babylon?
38. When did Jesus ascend into heaven?
39. Did Peter ask Jesus where he was going?
40. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem?
41. Is the day of the Lord at hand?
42. How many of Azgad's offspring returned from Babylon?
43. When did Baasha die?
44. How many languages were there before the Tower of Babel was built?
45. How many of Bani's offspring returned from Babylon?
46. In whose name is baptism to be performed?
47. Did Jesus baptize anyone?
48. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff?
49. Who was to blame for original sin?
50. Who was Bashemath's father?
51. What was the volume of the molten sea in Solomon's temple?
52. How many of Bebai's offspring returned from Babylon?
53. Who named Beersheba?
54. Where did Joseph and Mary live before the birth of Jesus?
55. Should we believe everything?
56. How many believers were there at the time of the ascension?
57. How old was Benjamin when his clan migrated to Egypt?
58. Who were the sons of Benjamin?
59. Were Naaman and Ard the sons or the grandsons of Benjamin?
60. Who asked Jesus for the best seats in heaven?
61. How many of Bethlehem and Netophah's offspring returned from Babylon?
62. How many of Bezai's offspring returned from Babylon?
63. How many of Bigvai's offspring returned from Babylon?
64. Who makes people deaf and blind?
65. How many blind men were healed near Jericho?
66. Does the blood of animal sacrifices take away sin?
67. Should every man bear his own burden?
68. Who buried Jesus?
69. On what day did the temple burn?
70. Did God command the Israelites to make him burnt offerings?
71. Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush?
72. What became of Cain?
73. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first?
74. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered?
75. Can God do anything?
76. How long was the Egyptian Captivity?
77. Is casting out devils a sign of a true Christian?
78. Is it OK to have a census?
79. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant?
80. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died?
81. How high was the chapiter?
82. How many men did David kill?
83. Is childbearing sinful?
84. Is it a a good thing to be childish?
85. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest?
86. Is circumcision required?
87. To whom were the cities of Exhtaol and Zoreah given?
88. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial?
89. What color was Jesus' robe?
90. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection?
91. Is God the author of confusion?
92. Is it OK to covet?
93. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice?
94. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion?
95. Is it OK to curse people?
96. Will God curse the earth?
97. Are those who obey the law cursed?
98. Who carried Jesus' cross?
99. Generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity
100. How did David kill Goliath?
101. The sons of David born in Hebron
102. Did David sin?
103. Which sons of David born in Jerusalem?
104. From which of David's sons was Jesus descended?
105. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre?
106. Did Adam die on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
107. Is death final?
108. How many of Delaiah, Tobiah, and Nekoda's offspring returned from Babylon?
109. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus?
110. Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?
111. Can the devil capture us at will?
112. Is the devil free to roam?
113. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus?
114. Does God desire animal sacrifices?
115. Must everyone die?
116. Is divorce ever permissible?
117. Does anyone do anything good?
118. Who put the robe on Jesus?
119. Did Jesus drink on the cross?
120. When did the earth dry after the flood?
121. Does God dwell in darkness or in light?
122. Will the earth last forever?
123. What kind of animals may we eat?
124. How should the Edomites be treated?
125. Did Lot's daughters think God had killed every man?
126. Did Luke include everything that Jesus did?
127. Did Jesus, Mary, and Joseph go to Egypt or Nazareth?
128. Did the eleven disciples believe the two men?
129. Who did Elhanan kill?
130. Was John the Baptist Elijah?
131. When will the end of the world come?
132. How should we treat our enemies?
133. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven?
134. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam?
135. Will Ephraim return to Egypt?
136. When was Eve created?
137. Is everyone descended from Adam and Eve?
138. Is God the creator of evil?
139. Do evildoers prosper?
140. Did Moses see God face to face?
141. Is Salvation by faith alone?
142. Were the men with Paul knocked to the ground?
143. Is it possible to fall from grace?
144. How many years of famine?
145. Is is OK to call your father (or anyone else) father?
146. Did Moses fear the king?
147. Should we look for signs in the heavens?
148. Should we fear God?
149. Who bought the potter's field?
150. When did the cursed fig tree die?
151. When did Jesus curse the fig tree?
152. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead?
153. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance?
154. How long was the ark afloat?
155. How long did the flood last?
156. Did everyone (except for Noah and his family) die in the flood?
157. Will the righteous flourish?
158. Which flying creeping things may we eat?
159. Is it OK to call someone a fool?
160. Is it good to be foolish?
161. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve?
162. How many generations from Jesus to Abraham?
163. Can God be found?
164. From what were the fowls created?
165. Do humans have free will?
166. Were the disciples frightened or gladdened when they saw Jesus?
167. Does God ever get furious?
168. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs Lk.3)
169. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs 1 Chr.)
170. When was the Holy Ghost given?
171. Does God ever lie?
172. Does God love everyone?
173. Does God know what is everyone's heart?
174. How many gods are there?
175. How much gold, silver, and clothing did the people give?
176. Who killed Goliath?
177. Is anyone good?
178. Who was greater: Jesus, Solomon, or John the Baptist?
179. Is it OK for men to have long hair?
180. Is it good to be happy?
181. Was Mary Magdalene happy or sad when she saw the risen Jesus?
182. Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart?
183. Should we follow our own heart?
184. When was heaven created?
185. Does God help in times of need?
186. How many talents of gold did Hiram send Solomon?
187. Is only God holy?
188. Who sent the Holy Ghost?
189. How should homosexuals be treated?
190. Where did Aaron die?
191. How many horsemen did David take?
192. At what time of day was Jesus crucified?
193. Does God approve of human sacrifices?
194. Were humans created before or after the other animals?
195. Which tribe was Hyram from?
196. Was Zechariah Iddo's son or grandson?
197. Is it OK to make images?
198. Which came first: the calling of Peter and Andrew or the imprisonment of John the Baptist?
199. Is incest forbidden?
200. Are we punished for the sins of others?
201. Did Saul inquire of the Lord?
202. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when the women arrived?
203. Will God destroy those that intermarry?
204. Can God stop iron chariots?
205. How old was Ishmael when he was abandoned by Abraham?
206. Who bought the sepulchre in Sechem from the sons of Hamor?
207. Where was Jacob buried?
208. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt?
209. Was Jarius' daughter alive when Jesus was approached?
210. Did Jeconiah have any sons?
211. Was Jechoniah the son or the grandson of Josiah?
212. When did Jehoash become king of Israel?
213. How old was Jehoachin when he began to reign?
214. Who succeeded Jehoiakim as king?
215. Did Jehoiakim die in Babylon or near Jerusalem?
216. Did Jehoshaphat remove the high places?
217. Did Abraham know God's name?
218. Was Jehu the son or grandson of Nimshi?
219. When was the man (or men) healed?
220. Did Paul go to Jerusalem from Damascus immediately after his conversion?
221. How many sons did Jesse have?
222. When was Jesus born?
223. Was Joseph the father of Jesus?
224. Did Jesus know everything?
225. Did Jesus bear witness of himself?
226. What will happen to Jews when they die?
227. Will there be many Jews?
228. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel?
229. Where was Joash buried?
230. Who brought evil on Job?
231. Who cast Jonah into the sea?
232. Where did John baptize?
233. Who was Jesus' grandfather on his father's side?
234. Where did Josiah die?
235. How did King Josiah die?
236. How long did Jotham reign?
237. How did Judas die?
238. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss?
239. To judge or not to judge.
240. Does Jesus judge people?
241. Has there ever been a just person?
242. Is anyone justified?
243. Was Keturah Abraham's wife or concubine?
244. To kill or not to kill.
245. Who was the father of Kish?
246. Does God know and see everything?
247. Who was Korah's father?
248. Who was Laban's father?
249. What were the last words of Jesus?
250. Should we obey human or divine law?
251. When did God kill Leviathan and the sea dragon?
252. Is it wrong to lie?
253. What is the human lifespan?
254. How many of Lod, Hadid, and Ono's offspring returned from Babylon?
255. Has the sun ever stood still in the sky for 24 hours?
256. Who is the Lord of this world?
257. Was Lot a righteous man?
258. Should we love or hate our brother?
259. Was Mahli the son of Levi?
260. Will everyone see the majesty of God?
261. Did Elisha receive Elijah's mantle before or after Elijah is taken up into heaven?
262. Is marriage a good thing?
263. Should Christians be concerned with material things?
264. Was Moses meek?
265. Is God merciful?
266. How many children did Michal have?
267. Did the Israelites kill every male in Midian?
268. How many people did God kill for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab"?
269. How did God say the Moabites should be treated?
270. Did any Moabite enter the congregation of the Lord?
271. Is money good or bad?
272. Who was Moses' father-in-law?
273. Was Moses a good speaker?
274. What's new?
275. What is the correct new moon sacrifice?
276. If God likes you, will everyone else like you too?
277. When did Noah enter the ark?
278. How should nonbelievers be treated?
279. Is it OK to take oaths?
280. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God?
281. How many officers did Solomon have?
282. How old was Abraham when he left Haran?
283. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived?
284. Do Christians need to obey Old Testament laws?
285. How many overseers did Solomon have?
286. Who owns the earth?
287. How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab's offspring returned from Babylon?
288. How should parents be treated?
289. How many days is unleavened bread to be eaten during the passover?
290. Was Jesus crucified the day before or the day after the Passover meal?
291. Did Paul see Jesus on the road to Damascus?
292. Did Paul visit all of the disciples when he went to Jerusalem after his conversion?
293. Is God warlike or peaceful?
294. Is the law of God perfect?
295. Who wrote the Pentateuch?
296. Were the Pharisees baptized by John?
297. Can women be church leaders?
298. How high were the pillars?
299. Were plants created before or after humans?
300. Should we try to please others?
301. How many children of the porters returned from Babylon?
302. How many men were possessed with devils?
303. What did Jesus do after his baptism?
304. How much power did Jesus have?
305. Do Christians know how to pray?
306. When David fled to Nob, what was the priest's name?
307. On what day of the month was Jehoiachin released from prison?
308. Should Christians pray in public?
309. Is every word of God pure?
310. Was Rahab saved by faith or works?
311. Who raised Jesus from the dead?
312. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all?
313. Can God be found through reason alone?
314. Did Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her?
315. Should we rejoice when we see our enemies suffer?
316. Is it OK for a divorced woman to remarry?
317. Does God repent?
318. Does God respect anyone?
319. Did both thieves revile Jesus?
320. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness?
321. Has there ever been a righteous person?
322. Does righteousness come from following the Law?
323. Is it necessary to keep the sabbath?
324. How should Sabbath-breakers be punished?
325. Who may offer sacrifices to God?
326. Who was the father of Salah?
327. Did the Samaritans receive Jesus?
328. Should the gospel be preached to everyone?
329. Who was Samuel's firstborn son?
330. Was Samuel a Ephraimite or a Levite?
331. Did Sarah have faith that she would conceive?
332. When did Satan enter Judas?
333. How did Saul die?
334. Did Saul's family die with him?
335. When did David meet Saul?
336. What must you do to be saved?
337. Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded?
338. Was Sisera asleep when he was murdered?
339. Is all scripture inspired by God?
340. Should we let others see our good works?
341. Can God be seen ?
342. How many of Senaah's offspring returned from Babylon?
343. Should you serve God alone?
344. What is the earth set upon?
345. How should a man who has sex with a menstruating woman be punished?
346. Do bad things happen to good people?
347. What did the sign over Jesus' head say?
348. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders?
349. What did Judas do with the silver?
350. Do Christians sin?
351. Where did Moses receive the Ten Commandments?
352. How many singing men and women returned from Babylon?
353. Were the men or angels inside the tomb sitting or standing?
354. What was Jesus' sixth commandment?
355. Does God sleep?
356. How many soldiers?
357. Who brought Joseph into Egypt?
358. How many sons did God have?
359. Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate?
360. Does God have a body?
361. How many stalls did Solomon have?
362. When were the stars made?
363. Is it wrong to steal?
364. How should strangers be treated?
365. Is Jesus peaceful ?
366. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection?
367. Did the women immediately tell the disciples?
368. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"?
369. Can God be tempted?
370. Who tempted David to number Israel?
371. Has God ever tempted anyone?
372. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God?
373. Can theives go to heaven?
374. How did God address Jesus at his baptism?
375. For How much did David by the threshing floor?
376. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus before his ascension?
377. When when did the transfiguration occur?
378. May Adam eat from any tree?
379. What were the twelve tribes of Israel?
380. How many animals of each kind did Noah take into the ark?
381. Is there an unforgivable sin?
382. Is it OK to marry unbelievers?
383. Where did God kill Uzza?
384. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink?
385. Did the men with Paul hear the voice?
386. Where did Moses get water from a rock?
387. Does God ever tire?
388. Was Jonah swallowed by a fish or a whale?
389. Who made the arc of the covenant?
390. Who wrote the (second set of) ten commandments?
391. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked?
392. Do the wicked live long?
393. Is God's will always done in heaven?
394. Is wisdom a good thing?
395. Does wisdom make people happy?
396. How many men were in the king's presence?
397. Who is for or against Jesus?
398. Who did the women see at the tomb?
399. How many women came to the sepulchre?
400. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand?
401. Can only God work wonders?
402. How are people judged by God?
403. How many of Zattu's offspring returned from Babylon?
404. Who was Zechariah's father?
405. How was Zedekiah related to Nebuchadnezzar?
406. Did Zedekiah see the king of Babylon?
407. Who was Zerubbabel's father?
408. Where does God dwell?[/spoiler:2233g3ij]
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:07:09 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:07:09 PM
In case you prefer them broken down by book (Old Testament):
[spoiler:38fv4vl2]Genesis
1. The two contradictory creation accounts. 1:1-2:3, 2:4-25
2. How long did creation take? 1:3-2:3, 2:4
3. Were plants created before or after humans? 1:11, 2:4-7
4. When were the stars made? 1:16-19
5. From what were the fowls created? 1:20-21
6. Were humans created before or after the other animals? 1:25-26, 2:7, 2:18-22
7. How many gods are there? 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
8. When was Eve created? 1:27, 2:20-22
9. Is childbearing sinful? 1:28
10. May Adam eat from any tree? 1:29, 2:17
11. Did Adam die on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? 2:17, 3:6, 5:5
12. Is marriage a good thing? 2:18
13. Doe God have a body? 3:8
14. Does God know and see everything? 3:8, 4:14, 4:16, 11:5, 18:9, 18:17, 18:20-21, 22:12, 32:27
15. Is everyone descended from Adam and Eve? 3:20
16. Does God respect anyone? 4:4
17. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 4:4, 8:20-21, 15:9-10
18. What became of Cain? 4:12
19. Was Enoch the sixth or seventh from Adam? 5:3-18
20. Does everyone die? 5:24
21. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 5:24
22. How many sons did God have? 6:2
23. What is the human lifespan? 6:3
24. Does God repent? 6:6-7
25. Has there ever been a perfect person? 6:9
26. Has there ever been a just person? 6:9
27. Has there ever been a righteous person? 7:1
28. When did Noah enter the ark? 7:7-10, 7:11-13
29. How many animals of each kind did Noah take into the ark? 6:19-20, 7:2-3, 7:8-9, 7:15
30. How long did the flood last? 7:17, 7:24, 8:3
31. Did everyone die in the flood? 7:21-23
32. How long was the ark afloat? 8:4, 8:5
33. When did the earth dry after the flood? 8:13, 14
34. Will God curse the earth? 8:21
35. Has the sun ever stood still in the sky for 24 hours? 8:22
36. What kind of animals may we eat? 9:3
37. Are we punished for the sins of others? 9:20-25, 20:18
38. How many languages were there before the Tower of Babel was built? 10:5, 20, 31, 11:1
39. Who was the father of Salah? 10:24, 11:12
40. How old was Abraham when he left Haran? 11:26, 11:32, 12:4
41. Is God the author of confusion? 11:7
42. How old was Abram when Ishmael was born? 11:26, 11:32, 16:16
43. Can God be seen? 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 26:24, 32:30, 35:1, 35:7, 35:9
44. Who owns the earth? 14:19, 22
45. How long was the Egyptian Captivity? 15:13
46. How many sons did Abraham have? 16:15, 22:2, 22:12, 25:2
47. Is circumcision required? 17:7, 17:10, 17:13, 17:19
48. Is incest forbidden? 17:16, 20:12
49. Are Old Testament laws still binding? 17:19
50. How old was Ishmael when he was abandoned by Abraham? 17:25, 21:14-18
51. Did Sarah have faith that she would conceive? 18:10-15
52. Is anything too hard for the Lord? 18:14
53. Was Lot a righteous man? 19:8, 30-36
54. Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? 19:13, 19:24
55. Did Lot's daughters think God had killed every man except Lot? 19:21-22, 30, 31
56. Is it OK to take oaths? 21:23-24, 24:2, 9, 31:53, 47:31
57. Who named Beersheba? 21:31, 26:33
58. Does God tempt people? 22:2
59. Does God approve of human sacrifices? 22:2-13
60. Did Abraham know God's name? 22:14
61. Was Keturah Abraham's wife or concubine? 25:1
62. Will there be many Jews? 26:4
63. Who was Bashemath's father? 26:34, 36:2-3
64. Who was Laban's father? 28:5, 29:5
65. Who was Anah? 36:2, 36:14, 36:20, 36:24
66. Who was Korah's father? 36:14, 15-16
67. Who brought Joseph into Egypt? 37:28, 37:36, 39:1
68. How old was Benjamin when his clan migrated to Egypt? 44:20, 22
69. Was Mahli the son of Levi? 46:11
70. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 46:20
71. Who were the sons of Benjamin? 46:21
72. Were Naaman and Ard the sons or the grandsons of Benjamin? 46:21
73. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt? 47:27
74. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 49:3-27
75. Where was Jacob buried? 50:13
Exodus
76. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt? 1:5
77. Is it wrong to lie? 1:18, 20:16, 23:1, 23:7
78. Did Moses fear the king? 2:14-15
79. Who was Moses' father-in-law? 2:18-21, 3:1, 4:18, 18:5
80. Does God respect anyone? 2:25
81. Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush? 3:2,4
82. Can God be seen? 3:16, 4:5, 6:3, 24:9-10, 33:11, 33:20, 33:23
83. Is it wrong to steal? 3:22, 12:35, 20:16
84. Was Moses a good speaker? 4:10, 4:14-16, 6:12, 6:30
85. Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart? 4:21, 7:3, 7:13, 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 14:4, 14:8
86. Did Abraham know God's name? 6:3
87. Is incest forbidden? 6:20
88. Did God command the Israelites to make him burnt offerings? 8:27, 10:25, 20:24, 29:16-18
89. Who owns the earth? 9:29
90. How many gods are there? 12:12, 15:11, 18:11, 20:3, 22:20, 22:28, 23:13, 23:24, 23:32, 34:14
91. Must Christians obey Old Testament laws? 12:14, 17, 24
92. How many days is unleavened bread to be eaten during the Passover? 12:15
93. How long was the Egyptian Captivity? 12:40
94. Is God warlike or peaceful? 15:3
95. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 16:29, 20:8, 31:13-16, 34:21, 35:2
96. Where did Moses get water from a rock? 17:1-7
97. Can God be tempted? 17:2
98. Is it OK to make images? 20:4, 25:18
99. Are we punished for the sins of others? 20:5, 34:7
100. How should parents be treated? 20:12
101. Is it OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 20:12
102. To kill or not to kill. 20:13, 23:7, 32:27-28
103. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 20:14
104. Is it OK to covet? 20:17
105. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 20:24, 29:11-37
106. Is only God holy? 22:31
107. How should strangers be treated? 22:21, 23:9
108. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 22:29
109. How should we treat our enemies? 23:4
110. Does God have a body? 33:11, 33:20, 33:23, 34:5
111. How should Sabbath-breakers be punished? 31:14-15, 35:2
112. Does God ever get tired? 31:17
113. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 31:18, 34:4, 34:32
114. Does God repent? 32:14
115. Did Moses see God face to face? 33:11, 33:20-23
116. Who wrote the (second set of) ten commandments? 34:1, 34:27
117. Is God merciful? 34:6-7
118. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 34:16
119. Who made the ark of the covenant? 37:1
Leviticus
120. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 1:5, 4:20, 4:26, 4:31, 4:35, 5:10, 5:16, 5:18, 6:7, 17:11, 23:12
121. Does the blood of animal sacrifices take away sin? 4:20, 26, 31, 35, 5:10, 16, 17, 17:11
122. Is only God holy? 11:44, 45, 19:2, 20:7
123. Is it OK to lie? 6:2-5, 19:11
124. Is it OK to steal? 6:2-5, 19:11
125. Which flying creeping things may we eat? 11:21-23
126. Is circumcision required? 12:3
127. Is childbearing sinful? 12:6-7
128. How should a man who has sex with a menstruating woman be punished? 15:24, 20:18
129. Who may offer sacrifices to God? 17:1-5
130. How should adulterers be punished? 20:10
131. Is incest forbidden? 18:9, 20:17
132. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 18:21, 20:2-5, 27:28-29
133. Should we love or hate other people? 19:17-18
134. How should nonbelievers be treated? 19:18
135. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 19:3, 19:30, 23:3
136. Is it OK to steal? 19:11
137. To judge or not to judge 19:15
138. How should strangers be treated? 19:33-34
139. How should homosexuals be treated? 20:13
140. Does God love everyone? 20:23
141. Must Christians obey Old Testament laws? 23:14, 23:24
142. Should we fear God 25:17
143. Does God respect anyone? 26:9
144. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 26:46, 27:34
145. Is it OK to take oaths? 27:2, 10
Numbers
146. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 1:5, 13:4
147. How should strangers be treated? 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:7
148. Should men have long hair? 6:5
149. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 12:1, 9-10
150. Who was Moses' father in law? 10:28
151. Was Moses meek? 12:3, 31:14-18
152. Who wrote the Pentateuch? 12:3
153. Did everyone die in the flood? 13:33
154. Can God be seen? 14:14
155. Are we punished for the sins of others? 14:18
156. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 15:27-30, 29:5
157. To kill or not to kill. 15:32-36
158. How should Sabbath-breakers be punished? 15:32-36
159. Should we follow our own hearts? 15:39
160. Who may offer sacrifices to God? 18:6
161. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 18:17-19
162. Where did Moses get water from a rock? 20:1-8, 27:14
163. Where did Aaron die? 20:27-28, 33:38
164. Is it OK to make images? 21:8
165. Does God know and see everything? 22:9
166. Does God repent? 23:19
167. Is God merciful? 25:1-5
168. How many did God kill for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab"? 25:9
169. Who were the sons of Benjamin? 26:38
170. Were Naaman and Ard the sons or the grandsons of Benjamin? 26:38-40
171. What is the correct recipe for the new moon sacrifice? 28:11
172. Does the blood of animal sacrifices take away sin? 29:6
173. Is it OK to take oaths? 30:2
174. Did the Israelites kill every male in Midian? 31:7, 16-17
175. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 31:18
176. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 31:25-29
177. How long does God's anger last? 32:13
178. How many gods are there? 33:4
Deuteronomy
179. Who wrote the Pentateuch? 1:1, 31:9, 34:5-6, 34:10
180. How should the Moabites be treated 2:9
181. How should the Ammonites be treated 2:19, 2:37
182. Are the Old Testament laws still binding? 4:8-9, 7:9, 11:1, 11:26-28
183. Should we fear God? 4:10, 6:2, 6:13, 6:24, 10:12, 10:20, 14:23, 31:11, 13
184. Is it OK to make images? 4:16-18, 23, 5:8
185. Will there be many Jews? 4:27
186. Is God merciful? 4:31, 7:16
187. How many gods are there? 4:35, 39, 6:4, 6:14, 10:17, 28:14, 32:39
188. Will the earth last forever? 4:40
189. Can God be seen? 5:4, 34:10
190. Are we punished for the sins of others? 5:9, 23:2, 24:16, 28:18
191. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 5:12-14
192. How should parents be treated? 5:16
193. Is it OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 5:16
194. To kill or not to kill. 5:17
195. Is it wrong to steal? 5:19
196. Is it wrong to lie? 5:20
197. Is it OK to covet? 5:21
198. Is it OK to take oaths? 6:13, 10:20, 23:21
199. Can God be tempted? 6:16
200. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 6:16
201. How should strangers be treated? 7:2, 10:19
202. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 7:3-4
203. Is only God holy? 7:6
204. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 8:2, 13:3
205. Does God know everything? 8:2, 13:3
206. Who made the ark of the covenant? 10:1-3
207. Where did Aaron die? 10:6
208. Who owns the earth? 10:14
209. Does God respect anyone? 10:17
210. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 12:27
211. How should nonbelievers be treated? 13:6-10
212. What kind of animals may we eat? 14:7-8
213. Which flying creeping things may we eat? 14:19
214. How many days is unleavened bread to be eaten during the Passover? 16:3, 8
215. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 18:10
216. Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded? 20:19
217. Are we punished for the sins of others? 23:2, 24:16, 28:18
218. Did any Moabite enter the congregation of the Lord? 23:3
219. How should the Edomites be treated? 23:7
220. Does God have a body? 23:12-13
221. Is it OK to take oaths? 23:21
222. Is divorce ever permissible? 24:1-2
223. Is it OK for a divorced woman to remarry? 24:1-2
224. Is it Ok to make images? 27:15
225. Is incest forbidden? 27:22
226. Are those who obey the law cursed? 27:26
227. Do humans have free will? 30:19
228. Does God repent? 32:36
229. Where did Moses get water from a rock? 32:51
230. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 33:6
231. Did Moses see God face to face? 33:20-23
232. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant? 34:34
Joshua
233. Is it wrong to lie? 2:4-5, 6:17
234. Who is the Lord of this world? 2:11, 3:13
235. Did God destroy the nations? 3:10
236. Should we fear God? 4:24, 24:14
237. Who Was Achan's father? 7:1, 7:24, 22:20
238. Did the city of Ai exist after Joshua destroyed it? 8:28
239. Has the sun ever stood still in the sky for 24 hours? 10:12-13
240. To whom were the cities of Exhtaol and Zoreah given? 15:20, 33, 19:41-42
241. What tribe was Aijalon from? 21:23-24
242. Is death final? 23:14
243. How many gods are there? 24:2, 24:14
244. Do humans have free will? 24:15
245. Who bought the sepulchre in Sechem from the sons of Hamor? 24:32
Judges
246. Can God do anything? 1:19
247. Can God stop iron chariots? 1:19, 4:13-16
248. How should the Moabites be treated 3:28-30
249. Who was Moses' father-in-law? 4:11
250. Was Sisera asleep when he was murdered? 4:21, 5:26-27
251. Did the Israelites kill every male in Midian? 6:1-2, 5
252. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 6:36-40
253. How many gods are there? 11:24
254. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 11:29-39
255. How should the Ammonites be treated 11:32
256. Is it OK for men to have long hair? 13:5
257. Can God be seen? 13:22
1 Samuel
258. Was Samuel an Ephraimite or a Levite? 1:1, 20
259. Is it OK for men to have long hair? 1:11
260. What is the earth set upon? 2:8
261. Are we punished for the sins of others? 3:12-13
262. How many gods are there? 6:5, 28:13
263. Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart? 6:6
264. Is God merciful? 6:19, 15:2-3
265. How long was the ark of the covenant at Abinadab's house? 7:1-2
266. Who may offer sacrifices to God? 7:7-9
267. Who was Samuel's firstborn son? 8:2
268. Does God help in times of need? 8:18
269. Who was the father of Kish? 9:1
270. Should we fear God? 12:14, 12:24
271. To kill or not to kill. 15:2-3
272. Was Haman an Agagite? 15:2-3, 7-8, 33-34
273. Does God repent? 15:11, 29, 35
274. Does God ever lie? 15:29
275. How many sons did Jesse have? 16:10-11, 17:12
276. When did Saul meet David? 16:21-22, 17:55-58
277. How did David kill Goliath? 17:49-51
278. Who killed Goliath? 17:49-51, 21:8-9
279. When David fled to Nob, what was the priest's name? 21:1
280. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 21:1
281. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech? 22:20, 23:6, 30:7
282. Did Saul inquire of the Lord? 28:6
283. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 28:11, 14
284. How did Saul die? 31:4-6
2 Samuel
285. How did Saul die? 1:8-10
286. Did Saul's family die with him? 2:9
287. The sons of David born in Hebron 3:2-5
288. When did Absalom rebel against David? 5:4, 15:7
289. The sons of David born in Jerusalem 5:14-16
290. How long was the ark of the covenant at Abinadab's house? 6:2-3
291. Where did God kill Uzza? 6:6
292. How many children did Michal have? 6:23, 21:8
293. Does God lie? 7:28
294. How many horsemen did David take? 8:4
295. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech? 8:17
296. How many men did David kill? 10:18
297. Are we punished for the sins of others? 12:18
298. How many sons did Absalom have? 14:27, 18:18
299. Who was Amasa's father? 17:25
300. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 21:1, 8-9, 14
301. Are we punished for the sins of others? 21:6
302. How did Saul die? 21:12
303. Who killed Goliath? 21:19
304. Who did Elhanan kill? 21:20
305. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill? 23:8
306. Who tempted David to number Israel? 24:1
307. Has God ever tempted anyone? 24:1
308. Is it OK to take a census? 24:1
309. How many soldiers? 24:9
310. Did David sin? 22:21, 22:25, 24:10
311. How many years of famine? 24:13
312. Is God merciful? 24:14
313. Does God repent? 24:16
314. For how much did David buy the threshing floor? 24:24
1 Kings
315. Are we punished for the sins of others? 2:33, 11:11-12
316. Who was the greatest: Jesus or Solomon? 3:12
317. Did David sin? 3:14, 9:4, 14:8
318. How many stalls did Solomon have? 4:26
319. How many overseers did Solomon have? 5:16
320. Which tribe was Hyram from? 7:13-14
321. How high were the pillars? 7:15
322. What was the volume of the molten sea in Solomon's temple? 7:26
323. What was in the Ark of the Covenant? 8:9
324. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 8:9
325. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 8:12
326. Does God dwell in temples? 8:13
327. Is anyone without sin? 8:46
328. How many officers did Solomon have? 9:23
329. How many talents of gold did Hiram send Solomon? 9:27-28
330. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 11:1-2
331. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 13:2
332. Who was Abijam's mother? 15:1-2
333. How were Abijam and Asa related? 15:1-2, 15:9-10
334. Did David sin? 15:5
335. How should homosexuals be treated? 15:11-12
336. Did Asa remove the high places? 15:14
337. Has there ever been a just, righteous, good or perfect person? 15:14
338. When did Baasha die? 16:6-8
339. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 17:22
340. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 17:22
341. Is it OK to test God? 18:36-38
342. How many gods are there? 18:39
343. Was Jehu the son or grandson of Nimshi? 19:16
344. Did Elisha receive Elijah's mantle before or after Elijah is taken up into heaven? 19:19
345. Are we punished for the sins of others? 21:29
346. Can God be seen? 22:19
347. Is it wrong to lie? 22:22
348. Does God lie? 22:22
349. Did Jehoshaphat remove the high places? 22:42-43
2 Kings
350. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 2:11
351. Is is OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 2:12, 6:21
352. Did Elisha receive Elijah's mantle before or after Elijah is taken up into heaven? 2:13
353. Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded? 3:19
354. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 4:32-35
355. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 4:32-35, 13:21
356. Are we punished for the sins of others? 5:27, 14:6
357. Is God the creator of evil? 6:33
358. Is it wrong to lie? 8:10
359. When did Ahaziah begin to reign? 8:25, 9:29
360. How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? 8:26
361. Was Jehu the son or grandson of Nimshi? 9:2
362. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel? 10:30
363. Where was Joash buried? 12:20-21
364. When did Jehoash become king of Israel? 13:1, 10
365. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 13:21
366. Does God respect anyone? 13:23
367. How long did Jotham reign? 15:30-33
368. Was Ahaz buried with his fathers? 16:20
369. Should we fear God? 17:39
370. Is it OK to make images? 18:3-4
371. Who is the Lord of this world? 19:15
372. Is it okay to test God? 20:8-11
373. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 21:6, 23:20
374. How did King Josiah die? 22:20, 23:29-30
375. Where did Josiah die? 23:29-30
376. Who succeeded Jehoiakim as king? 24:6
377. How old was Jehoachin when he began to reign? 24:8
378. How was Zedekiah related to Nebuchadnearrar? 24:17
379. Did Zedekiah's eyes see the king of Babylon? 25:7
380. On what day did the temple burn? 25:8-9
381. How high was the chapiter? 25:17
382. How many men were in the king's presence? 25:19
383. On what day of the month was Jehoiachin released from prison? 25:27
1 Chronicles
384. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam? 1:1-2
385. Was Keturah Abraham's wife or concubine? 1:32
386. Who was Anah? 1:38, 1:40
387. How many sons did Jesse have? 2:13-15
388. Who was Amasa's father? 2:17
389. The sons of David born in Hebron 3:1-4
390. The sons of David born in Jerusalem 3:5-8, 14:3-7
391. What were the generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity 3:11-16
392. Was Jechoniah the son or the grandson of Josiah? 3:15-16
393. Did Jeconiah have any sons? 3:17-18
394. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 3:19
395. Was Mahli the son of Levi? 6:1, 6:16, 23:6
396. Who was Samuel's firstborn son? 6:28
397. What tribe was Aijalon from? 6:66, 69
398. Who were the sons of Benjamin? 7:6, 8:1-2
399. Who was the father of Kish? 8:33, 9:39
400. How did Saul die? 10:4, 10:14
401. Did Saul's family die with him? 10:6
402. Did Saul inquire of the Lord? 10:13-14
403. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill? 11:11
404. Where did God kill Uzza? 13:9
405. Who is the Lord of this world? 16:14, 31
406. Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding? 16:15-17
407. How many gods are there? 16:25
408. Should we fear God? 16:25
409. Is God merciful? 16:34
410. How many horsemen did David take? 18:4
411. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech? 18:16, 24:6
412. How many men did David kill? 19:18
413. Who did Elhanan kill? 20:5
414. Who tempted David to number Israel? 21:1
415. Is it OK to take a census? 21:2
416. How many soldiers? 21:5
417. How many years of famine? 21:12
418. Does God repent? 21:15
419. For how much did David buy the threshing floor? 21:25
420. Who owns the earth? 29:11
2 Chronicles
421. Which tribe was Hyram from? 2:13-14
422. Is it OK to take a census? 2:17
423. How many overseers did Solomon have? 2:18
424. How high were the pillars? 3:15
425. What was the volume of the molten sea in Solomon's temple? 4:5
426. What was in the Ark of the Covenant? 5:10
427. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 5:10
428. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 6:1
429. Is anyone without sin? 6:36
430. How many officers did Solomon have? 8:10
431. How many talents of gold did Hiram send Solomon? 8:18
432. How many stalls did Solomon have? 9:25
433. Who was Abijam's mother? 13:1-2
434. Did Asa remove the high places? 14:3, 5, 15:17
435. Was Asa perfect? 15:17, 16:7, 16:10, 16:12
436. When did Baasha die? 16:1
437. Did Jehoshaphat remove the high places? 17:5-6, 20:31-33
438. Does God ever lie? 18:22
439. Does God respect anyone? 19:7
440. How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? 22:2
441. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel? 22:7-9
442. Who was Zechariah's father? 24:20-21
443. Where was Joash buried? 24:24-25
444. Was Ahaz buried with his fathers? 28:27
445. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 32:31
446. Does God know everything? 32:31
447. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 34:1-5
448. How did King Josiah die? 35:23
449. Where did Josiah die? 35:24
450. Did Jehoiakim die in Babylon or near Jerusalem? 36:5-6
451. How old was Jehoachin when he began to reign? 36:9
452. How was Zedekiah related to Nebuchadnearrar? 36:10
Ezra
453. How many of Arah's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:5
454. How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab's offspring returned from B abylon? 2:6
455. How many of Zattu's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:8
456. How many of Bani's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:10
457. How many of Bebai's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:11
458. How many of Azgad's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:12
459. How many of Adonikam's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:13
460. How many of Bigvai's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:14
461. How many of Adin's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:15
462. How many of Bezai's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:17
463. How many of Bethlehem and Netophah's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:21
464. How many of Lod, Hadid, and Ono's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:33
465. How many of Senaah's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:35
466. How many of Asaph's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:41
467. How many children of the porters returned from Babylon? 2:42
468. How many of Delaiah, Tobiah, and Nekoda's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:60
469. How many singing men and women returned from Babylon? 2:65
470. How much gold, silver, and clothing did the people give? 2:69
471. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 3:2
472. Was Zechariah Iddo's son or grandson? 5:1, 6:14
473. Who is the Lord of this world? 5:11
474. Was Mahli the son of Levi? 8:18
Nehemiah
475. Should we fear God? 5:9
476. How many of Arah's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:10
477. How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:11
478. How many of Zattu's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:13
479. How many of Bani's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:15
480. How many of Bebai's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:16
481. How many of Azgad's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:17
482. How many of Adonikam's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:18
483. How many of Bigvai's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:19
484. How many of Adin's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:20
485. How many of Bezai's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:23
486. How many of Bethlehem and Netophah's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:26
487. How many of Lod, Hadid, and Ono's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:37
488. How many of Senaah's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:38
489. How many of Asaph's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:44
490. How many children of the porters returned from Babylon? 7:45
491. How many of Delaiah, Tobiah, and Nekoda's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:62
492. How many singing men and women returned from Babylon? 7:67
493. How much gold, silver, and clothing did the people give? 7:72
494. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 9:13
495. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 12:1
496. Did any Moabite enter the congregation of the Lord? 13:1
Esther
[est/contra.html]
Job
497. How many sons does God have? 1:6, 2:1, 38:4
498. Does God know everything? 1:7, 2:2, 42:2
499. Who brought evil on Job? 2:7, 42:11
500. Is death final? 7:7-9, 14:10, 12, 20:7
501. What is the earth set upon? 9:6, 26:7
502. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked? 9:22
503. Can God be found through reason alone? 11:7
504. Do evildoers prosper? 12:6
505. Has there ever been a righteous person? 15:14
506. Do the wicked live long? 21:7
507. Should we fear God? 28:28
508. Who is the Lord of this world? 34:13
509. Is wisdom a good thing? 37:24
510. When were the stars made? 38:7
511. Can God do anything? 42:1-2
512. Can God be seen? 42:5
Psalms
513. "The congregation of the righteous"
Has there ever been a righteous person? 1:5-6
514. Is it good to be foolish? 5:5
515. Does God love everyone? 5:5, 11:5
516. Is death final? 6:5, 31:17, 88:5, 115:17
517. Does God dwell in Zion? 9:1, 76:2, 123:1
518. Does God help in times of need? 10:1, 22:1-2, 22:24, 46:1, 145:18
519. Is every word of God pure? 12:6
520. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 14:1, 53:1
521. Does anyone ever do anything good? , 53:3
522. Is only God holy? 16:10
523. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 18:11, 97:2
524. Is the law of God perfect? 18:30, 19:7
525. Is God warlike or peaceful? 18:34, 144:1
526. Can God be found? 18:41
527. Should we fear God? 19:9, 25:14, 33:8, 33:18, 96:4, 103:11, 13, 17, 111:10, 112:1, 115:13, 128:1, 147:11
528. Who owns the earth? 24:1, 50:12, 89:11, 115:16
529. Is God merciful? 25:8, 86:5, 100:5, 103:8, 106:1, 107:1, 118:1, 136:1-26, 145:8-9
530. How long does God's anger last? 30:5
531. Do evildoers prosper? 34:21, 73:3, 7, 12
532. How should we treat our enemies? 35:6, 8, 55:15, 58:6-7, 83:9-18, 109:6-14
533. Has there ever been a just person? 37:12
534. Is it wrong to steal? 37:21
535. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 37:25, 112:1, 3
536. Will the earth last forever? 37:29, 78:69, 102:25-26, 104:5
537. Does God know everything? 44:21, 139:2-3
538. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 44:21, 139:2-3
539. Does God sleep? 44:23, 121:3-4
540. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 40:6, 50:13, 51:16
541. Who is the Lord of this world? 47:2, 7, 59:13, 83:18, 96:10, 97:1, 5, 99:1
542. Do the wicked live long? 55:23
543. Should we rejoice when we see our enemies suffer? 58:10
544. Is Salvation by faith alone? 62:12
545. What must you do to be saved? 62:12
546. Can God be seen? 63:2
547. Is it OK to take oaths? 63:11
548. When did God kill Leviathan and the sea dragon? 74:13-14
549. How many gods are there? 82:1, 6, 86:8, 96:4, 97:7, 136:2
550. Is only God holy? 86:2, 135:5
551. How long is the human lifespan? 90:10
552. Will the righteous flourish? 92:12
553. Is every word of God pure? 119:140
554. Do Christians need to follow Old Testament laws? 119:151-2, 160
555. Can only God work wonders? 136:4
556. Does God respect anyone? 138:6
557. Does God know and see everything? 139:3, 7
558. Is anyone justified? 143:2
Proverbs
559. How should parents be treated? 1:6, 23:22
560. Should we fear God? 1:7, 14:2, 22:4, 24:21
561. If you seek God, will you find him? 1:26-28, 8:17
562. Does wisdom make people happy? 3:13
563. Has there ever been a just person? 3:33, 4:18, 9:9, 10:6, 10:7, 10:20, 11:9, 12:13, 12:21, 17:15, 17:26, 20:7, 21:15, 24:16, 29:10, 29:27
564. Is wisdom a good thing? 4:7
565. Does God love everyone? 6:16, 19
566. Do the wicked live long and prosper? 10:27, 24:20
567. Do bad things happen to good people? 12:21, 19:23
568. Is it wrong to lie? 12:22, 13:5, 24:28
569. Should we believe everything? 14:15
570. Does God see and know everything? 15:3
571. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 15:6
572. Does God want some to go to hell? 16:4
573. If God likes you, will everyone else? 16:7
574. Is it good to be happy? 17:22
575. Is marriage a good thing? 18:22
576. Can anyone claim to be free from sin? 20:9
577. Has there ever been a perfect person? 20:9
578. What should we eat? 23:20
579. Should we rejoice when our enemies suffer? 24:17
580. How should enemies be treated? 25:21
581. Should you answer a fool according to his folly? 26:4-5
582. Is God's word pure? 30:5
Ecclesiastes
583. Will the earth last forever? 1:4
584. What's new? 1:9
585. Does wisdom make people happy? 1:18
586. Is dancing a sin? 3:4
587. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 3:19, 9:5, 9:10
588. Where does God dwell? 5:2
589. Should we fear God? 5:7, 12:13
590. Is it good to be happy? 7:3, 8:15
591. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked? 7:15
592. Has there ever been a just person? 7:15, 7:20, 8:14
593. Does anyone ever do anything good? 7:20
594. Is anyone without sin? 7:20
595. Do the wicked live long? 8:13
596. Is it OK to drink alcohol? 9:7
597. Is marriage a good thing? 9:9
598. Is money good or bad? 10:19
599. Should we follow our own hearts? 11:9
600. "The righteous ... are in the hand of God."
Has there ever been a righteous person? 9:1
Song of Solomon
Isaiah
601. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 1:11, 66:3
602. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 1:13, 56:2
603. Does God ever tire? 1:14, 40:28, 43:24
604. Does God help in times of need? 1:15, 45:15
605. Is only God holy? 4:3
606. Can God be seen? 6:1, 5
607. What should we eat? 7:14-15
608. Should we fear God? 8:13
609. Are we punished for the sins of others? 14:21
610. Has there ever been a just person? 26:7
611. Will everyone see the majesty of God? 26:10
612. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 26:14, 26:19, 38:18
613. When did God kill Leviathan and the sea dragon? 27:1
614. Does God ever get furious? 27:4, 34:2-3
615. Who is the Lord of this world? 37:16
616. Does God ever change his mind? 38:1-5
617. Will everyone see the majesty of God? 40:5
618. Has there ever been a righteous person? 41:26
619. How many gods are there? 43:10, 44:8, 45:5, 46:9
620. What's new? 43:19, 65:17
621. Is God the creator of evil? 45:7
622. Is it OK to swear? 45:23, 48:1, 65:16
623. Will the righteous flourish? 57:1
624. Will the earth last forever? 65:17
625. What's new? 65:17
Jeremiah
626. Is God merciful? 3:12
627. How long does God's anger last? 3:12
628. Is it OK to swear? 4:2, 12:16
629. Does God lie? 4:10, 20:7
630. Should we fear God? 5:22
631. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 6:20
632. Did God command the Israelites to make him burnt offerings? 7:22
633. Should we look for signs from heaven? 10:2
634. How many gods are there? 10:11, 25:6, 46:25
635. Do evildoers prosper? 12:1
636. Is God merciful and good? 13:13-14, 16:5
637. Does God help all those who call on him? 14:12
638. "I will cause them to be removed into all kingdoms of the earth, because of Manasseh ... for that which he did in Jerusalem."
Are we punished for the sins of others? 15:4
639. Does God repent? 15:6, 18:8-10, 26:3, 13, 19, 42:10
640. Does God become weary? 15:6
641. Are we punished for the sins of others? 16:10-11, 29:32, 31:29-30, 32:18
642. Can God see everything? 16:17, 23:24
643. How long does God's anger last? 17:4
644. Will God reward every person according to his works? 17:10, 32:18
645. What must you do to be saved? 17:10
646. Does God ever get furious? 21:5, 30:23
647. How should strangers be treated? 22:3
648. Where did Jehoiakim die? 22:18-19
649. Did Coniah (Jeconiah) have any sons? 22:28-30
650. Do the wicked prosper? 23:19
651. When did Nebuchadnezzar come to Jerusalem? 25:1
652. What's new? 31:22
653. Can God do anything? 32:17, 27
654. Did Zedekiah's eyes see the king of Babylon? 34:2, 5
655. Who succeeded Jehoiakim? 36:30
656. How should the Moabites be treated? 48:2
657. How should the Ammonites be treated? 49:2
658. On what day did the temple burn? 52:12-13
659. How high was the chapiter? 52:22
660. How many men were in the king's presence? 52:25
661. When was Jehoiachin released from prison? 52:31
Lamentations
662. How should we treat our enemies? 1:21-22, 3:64-66
663. Is God merciful? 2:2, 2:17, 2:21, 3:33, 3:43
664. Does God listen to and answer prayers? 3:8, 3:44
665. Has there ever been a just person? 4:13
Ezekiel
666. Does God have a body? 1:27, 8:2-3
667. Can God be seen? 1:27, 20:35
668. Is God merciful and good? 7:4, 9, 9:4-10
669. Does God help everyone who calls on him? 8:18
670. Does God lie? 14:9
671. Has there ever been a righteous person? 14:14, 20
672. Has there ever been a just person? 18:5-6, 18:9
673. Are we punished for the sins of others? 18:19-20
674. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked? 18:9, 19, 21:3-4, 33:19
675. Is salvation by faith alone? 18:27
676. What must you do to be saved? 18:27
677. Does god help in time of need? 20:3
678. Is every word of God pure? 23:20
679. Does God repent? 24:14
680. How should Edomites be treated? 25:13
681. Is death final? 37:12
682. Is it wrong to steal? 39:10
683. What is the correct recipe for the new moon sacrifice? 46:6
684. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 48:1
Daniel
685. Is it OK to drink alcohol? 1:8
686. Is it OK to eat meat? 1:8
687. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 12:2
Hosea
688. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel? 1:4
689. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 1:2-3, 3:1
690. Should we fear God? 3:5
691. Does God help in times of need? 5:6
692. Is God merciful? 6:6
693. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 6:6
694. Does God know and see everything? 8:4
695. Will Ephraim return to Egypt? 8:11, 9:3, 11:3-5
696. Does God love everyone? 9:15
697. Has there ever been a just person? 14:9
Joel
698. Is God good and merciful? 2:13
699. Does God help those who call on him? 2:32
700. Where does God live? 3:17, 21
Amos
701. Is God the creator of evil? 3:6
702. Has there ever been a just person? 5:12
703. Does God repent? 7:3, 6
704. Can God be seen? 7:7, 9:1
705. Can God be found? 8:12
Jonah
706. Does God see and know everything? 1:3, 1:10.
707. Who cast Jonah into the sea? 1:15, 2:3
708. Did a fish or a whale swallow Jonah? 1:17
709. Does God change his mind? 3:10
Micah
710. Is God merciful? 1:12, 6:8, 7:18
711. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 3:4
712. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:13
713. Does God get furious? 5:15
714. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 6:6-7
715. How long does God's anger last? 7:18
Nahum
716. Does God ever get furious? 1:2
717. Do the wicked prosper? 1:3
718. Does God help those in need? 1:7
719. Is it OK to steal? 2:9
Habakkuk
720. Does God help in times of need? 1:2
721. Do bad things happen to good people? 1:4, 1:13
722. Has there ever been a just person? 2:4
723. Is God's word pure? 2:16
724. Can God be seen? 3:3-5
725. Does God have a body? 3:3-5
Zephaniah
726. Are we punished for the sins of others? 1:8
727. How many gods are there? 2:11
Haggai
728. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 1:1
Zechariah
729. Who is Iddo's grandson? 1:1
730. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:14, 6:5
731. How should strangers be treated? 7:10
732. Does God ever get angry? 8:2
Malachi
733. Does God love everyone? 1:3
734. How long does God's anger last? 1:4
735. Is every word of God pure? 2:3
736. Should we fear God? 2:5
737. Does God change his mind? 3:6
738. Must we obey the Old Testament laws? 4:4
739. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 4:4
740. Will God curse the earth? 4:6
741. How should we treat our parents? 4:6[/spoiler:38fv4vl2]
[spoiler:38fv4vl2]Genesis
1. The two contradictory creation accounts. 1:1-2:3, 2:4-25
2. How long did creation take? 1:3-2:3, 2:4
3. Were plants created before or after humans? 1:11, 2:4-7
4. When were the stars made? 1:16-19
5. From what were the fowls created? 1:20-21
6. Were humans created before or after the other animals? 1:25-26, 2:7, 2:18-22
7. How many gods are there? 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
8. When was Eve created? 1:27, 2:20-22
9. Is childbearing sinful? 1:28
10. May Adam eat from any tree? 1:29, 2:17
11. Did Adam die on the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? 2:17, 3:6, 5:5
12. Is marriage a good thing? 2:18
13. Doe God have a body? 3:8
14. Does God know and see everything? 3:8, 4:14, 4:16, 11:5, 18:9, 18:17, 18:20-21, 22:12, 32:27
15. Is everyone descended from Adam and Eve? 3:20
16. Does God respect anyone? 4:4
17. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 4:4, 8:20-21, 15:9-10
18. What became of Cain? 4:12
19. Was Enoch the sixth or seventh from Adam? 5:3-18
20. Does everyone die? 5:24
21. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 5:24
22. How many sons did God have? 6:2
23. What is the human lifespan? 6:3
24. Does God repent? 6:6-7
25. Has there ever been a perfect person? 6:9
26. Has there ever been a just person? 6:9
27. Has there ever been a righteous person? 7:1
28. When did Noah enter the ark? 7:7-10, 7:11-13
29. How many animals of each kind did Noah take into the ark? 6:19-20, 7:2-3, 7:8-9, 7:15
30. How long did the flood last? 7:17, 7:24, 8:3
31. Did everyone die in the flood? 7:21-23
32. How long was the ark afloat? 8:4, 8:5
33. When did the earth dry after the flood? 8:13, 14
34. Will God curse the earth? 8:21
35. Has the sun ever stood still in the sky for 24 hours? 8:22
36. What kind of animals may we eat? 9:3
37. Are we punished for the sins of others? 9:20-25, 20:18
38. How many languages were there before the Tower of Babel was built? 10:5, 20, 31, 11:1
39. Who was the father of Salah? 10:24, 11:12
40. How old was Abraham when he left Haran? 11:26, 11:32, 12:4
41. Is God the author of confusion? 11:7
42. How old was Abram when Ishmael was born? 11:26, 11:32, 16:16
43. Can God be seen? 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 26:24, 32:30, 35:1, 35:7, 35:9
44. Who owns the earth? 14:19, 22
45. How long was the Egyptian Captivity? 15:13
46. How many sons did Abraham have? 16:15, 22:2, 22:12, 25:2
47. Is circumcision required? 17:7, 17:10, 17:13, 17:19
48. Is incest forbidden? 17:16, 20:12
49. Are Old Testament laws still binding? 17:19
50. How old was Ishmael when he was abandoned by Abraham? 17:25, 21:14-18
51. Did Sarah have faith that she would conceive? 18:10-15
52. Is anything too hard for the Lord? 18:14
53. Was Lot a righteous man? 19:8, 30-36
54. Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? 19:13, 19:24
55. Did Lot's daughters think God had killed every man except Lot? 19:21-22, 30, 31
56. Is it OK to take oaths? 21:23-24, 24:2, 9, 31:53, 47:31
57. Who named Beersheba? 21:31, 26:33
58. Does God tempt people? 22:2
59. Does God approve of human sacrifices? 22:2-13
60. Did Abraham know God's name? 22:14
61. Was Keturah Abraham's wife or concubine? 25:1
62. Will there be many Jews? 26:4
63. Who was Bashemath's father? 26:34, 36:2-3
64. Who was Laban's father? 28:5, 29:5
65. Who was Anah? 36:2, 36:14, 36:20, 36:24
66. Who was Korah's father? 36:14, 15-16
67. Who brought Joseph into Egypt? 37:28, 37:36, 39:1
68. How old was Benjamin when his clan migrated to Egypt? 44:20, 22
69. Was Mahli the son of Levi? 46:11
70. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 46:20
71. Who were the sons of Benjamin? 46:21
72. Were Naaman and Ard the sons or the grandsons of Benjamin? 46:21
73. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt? 47:27
74. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 49:3-27
75. Where was Jacob buried? 50:13
Exodus
76. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt? 1:5
77. Is it wrong to lie? 1:18, 20:16, 23:1, 23:7
78. Did Moses fear the king? 2:14-15
79. Who was Moses' father-in-law? 2:18-21, 3:1, 4:18, 18:5
80. Does God respect anyone? 2:25
81. Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush? 3:2,4
82. Can God be seen? 3:16, 4:5, 6:3, 24:9-10, 33:11, 33:20, 33:23
83. Is it wrong to steal? 3:22, 12:35, 20:16
84. Was Moses a good speaker? 4:10, 4:14-16, 6:12, 6:30
85. Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart? 4:21, 7:3, 7:13, 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 14:4, 14:8
86. Did Abraham know God's name? 6:3
87. Is incest forbidden? 6:20
88. Did God command the Israelites to make him burnt offerings? 8:27, 10:25, 20:24, 29:16-18
89. Who owns the earth? 9:29
90. How many gods are there? 12:12, 15:11, 18:11, 20:3, 22:20, 22:28, 23:13, 23:24, 23:32, 34:14
91. Must Christians obey Old Testament laws? 12:14, 17, 24
92. How many days is unleavened bread to be eaten during the Passover? 12:15
93. How long was the Egyptian Captivity? 12:40
94. Is God warlike or peaceful? 15:3
95. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 16:29, 20:8, 31:13-16, 34:21, 35:2
96. Where did Moses get water from a rock? 17:1-7
97. Can God be tempted? 17:2
98. Is it OK to make images? 20:4, 25:18
99. Are we punished for the sins of others? 20:5, 34:7
100. How should parents be treated? 20:12
101. Is it OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 20:12
102. To kill or not to kill. 20:13, 23:7, 32:27-28
103. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 20:14
104. Is it OK to covet? 20:17
105. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 20:24, 29:11-37
106. Is only God holy? 22:31
107. How should strangers be treated? 22:21, 23:9
108. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 22:29
109. How should we treat our enemies? 23:4
110. Does God have a body? 33:11, 33:20, 33:23, 34:5
111. How should Sabbath-breakers be punished? 31:14-15, 35:2
112. Does God ever get tired? 31:17
113. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 31:18, 34:4, 34:32
114. Does God repent? 32:14
115. Did Moses see God face to face? 33:11, 33:20-23
116. Who wrote the (second set of) ten commandments? 34:1, 34:27
117. Is God merciful? 34:6-7
118. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 34:16
119. Who made the ark of the covenant? 37:1
Leviticus
120. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 1:5, 4:20, 4:26, 4:31, 4:35, 5:10, 5:16, 5:18, 6:7, 17:11, 23:12
121. Does the blood of animal sacrifices take away sin? 4:20, 26, 31, 35, 5:10, 16, 17, 17:11
122. Is only God holy? 11:44, 45, 19:2, 20:7
123. Is it OK to lie? 6:2-5, 19:11
124. Is it OK to steal? 6:2-5, 19:11
125. Which flying creeping things may we eat? 11:21-23
126. Is circumcision required? 12:3
127. Is childbearing sinful? 12:6-7
128. How should a man who has sex with a menstruating woman be punished? 15:24, 20:18
129. Who may offer sacrifices to God? 17:1-5
130. How should adulterers be punished? 20:10
131. Is incest forbidden? 18:9, 20:17
132. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 18:21, 20:2-5, 27:28-29
133. Should we love or hate other people? 19:17-18
134. How should nonbelievers be treated? 19:18
135. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 19:3, 19:30, 23:3
136. Is it OK to steal? 19:11
137. To judge or not to judge 19:15
138. How should strangers be treated? 19:33-34
139. How should homosexuals be treated? 20:13
140. Does God love everyone? 20:23
141. Must Christians obey Old Testament laws? 23:14, 23:24
142. Should we fear God 25:17
143. Does God respect anyone? 26:9
144. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 26:46, 27:34
145. Is it OK to take oaths? 27:2, 10
Numbers
146. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 1:5, 13:4
147. How should strangers be treated? 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:7
148. Should men have long hair? 6:5
149. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 12:1, 9-10
150. Who was Moses' father in law? 10:28
151. Was Moses meek? 12:3, 31:14-18
152. Who wrote the Pentateuch? 12:3
153. Did everyone die in the flood? 13:33
154. Can God be seen? 14:14
155. Are we punished for the sins of others? 14:18
156. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 15:27-30, 29:5
157. To kill or not to kill. 15:32-36
158. How should Sabbath-breakers be punished? 15:32-36
159. Should we follow our own hearts? 15:39
160. Who may offer sacrifices to God? 18:6
161. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 18:17-19
162. Where did Moses get water from a rock? 20:1-8, 27:14
163. Where did Aaron die? 20:27-28, 33:38
164. Is it OK to make images? 21:8
165. Does God know and see everything? 22:9
166. Does God repent? 23:19
167. Is God merciful? 25:1-5
168. How many did God kill for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab"? 25:9
169. Who were the sons of Benjamin? 26:38
170. Were Naaman and Ard the sons or the grandsons of Benjamin? 26:38-40
171. What is the correct recipe for the new moon sacrifice? 28:11
172. Does the blood of animal sacrifices take away sin? 29:6
173. Is it OK to take oaths? 30:2
174. Did the Israelites kill every male in Midian? 31:7, 16-17
175. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 31:18
176. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 31:25-29
177. How long does God's anger last? 32:13
178. How many gods are there? 33:4
Deuteronomy
179. Who wrote the Pentateuch? 1:1, 31:9, 34:5-6, 34:10
180. How should the Moabites be treated 2:9
181. How should the Ammonites be treated 2:19, 2:37
182. Are the Old Testament laws still binding? 4:8-9, 7:9, 11:1, 11:26-28
183. Should we fear God? 4:10, 6:2, 6:13, 6:24, 10:12, 10:20, 14:23, 31:11, 13
184. Is it OK to make images? 4:16-18, 23, 5:8
185. Will there be many Jews? 4:27
186. Is God merciful? 4:31, 7:16
187. How many gods are there? 4:35, 39, 6:4, 6:14, 10:17, 28:14, 32:39
188. Will the earth last forever? 4:40
189. Can God be seen? 5:4, 34:10
190. Are we punished for the sins of others? 5:9, 23:2, 24:16, 28:18
191. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 5:12-14
192. How should parents be treated? 5:16
193. Is it OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 5:16
194. To kill or not to kill. 5:17
195. Is it wrong to steal? 5:19
196. Is it wrong to lie? 5:20
197. Is it OK to covet? 5:21
198. Is it OK to take oaths? 6:13, 10:20, 23:21
199. Can God be tempted? 6:16
200. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 6:16
201. How should strangers be treated? 7:2, 10:19
202. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 7:3-4
203. Is only God holy? 7:6
204. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 8:2, 13:3
205. Does God know everything? 8:2, 13:3
206. Who made the ark of the covenant? 10:1-3
207. Where did Aaron die? 10:6
208. Who owns the earth? 10:14
209. Does God respect anyone? 10:17
210. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 12:27
211. How should nonbelievers be treated? 13:6-10
212. What kind of animals may we eat? 14:7-8
213. Which flying creeping things may we eat? 14:19
214. How many days is unleavened bread to be eaten during the Passover? 16:3, 8
215. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 18:10
216. Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded? 20:19
217. Are we punished for the sins of others? 23:2, 24:16, 28:18
218. Did any Moabite enter the congregation of the Lord? 23:3
219. How should the Edomites be treated? 23:7
220. Does God have a body? 23:12-13
221. Is it OK to take oaths? 23:21
222. Is divorce ever permissible? 24:1-2
223. Is it OK for a divorced woman to remarry? 24:1-2
224. Is it Ok to make images? 27:15
225. Is incest forbidden? 27:22
226. Are those who obey the law cursed? 27:26
227. Do humans have free will? 30:19
228. Does God repent? 32:36
229. Where did Moses get water from a rock? 32:51
230. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 33:6
231. Did Moses see God face to face? 33:20-23
232. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant? 34:34
Joshua
233. Is it wrong to lie? 2:4-5, 6:17
234. Who is the Lord of this world? 2:11, 3:13
235. Did God destroy the nations? 3:10
236. Should we fear God? 4:24, 24:14
237. Who Was Achan's father? 7:1, 7:24, 22:20
238. Did the city of Ai exist after Joshua destroyed it? 8:28
239. Has the sun ever stood still in the sky for 24 hours? 10:12-13
240. To whom were the cities of Exhtaol and Zoreah given? 15:20, 33, 19:41-42
241. What tribe was Aijalon from? 21:23-24
242. Is death final? 23:14
243. How many gods are there? 24:2, 24:14
244. Do humans have free will? 24:15
245. Who bought the sepulchre in Sechem from the sons of Hamor? 24:32
Judges
246. Can God do anything? 1:19
247. Can God stop iron chariots? 1:19, 4:13-16
248. How should the Moabites be treated 3:28-30
249. Who was Moses' father-in-law? 4:11
250. Was Sisera asleep when he was murdered? 4:21, 5:26-27
251. Did the Israelites kill every male in Midian? 6:1-2, 5
252. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 6:36-40
253. How many gods are there? 11:24
254. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 11:29-39
255. How should the Ammonites be treated 11:32
256. Is it OK for men to have long hair? 13:5
257. Can God be seen? 13:22
1 Samuel
258. Was Samuel an Ephraimite or a Levite? 1:1, 20
259. Is it OK for men to have long hair? 1:11
260. What is the earth set upon? 2:8
261. Are we punished for the sins of others? 3:12-13
262. How many gods are there? 6:5, 28:13
263. Who hardened the Pharaoh's heart? 6:6
264. Is God merciful? 6:19, 15:2-3
265. How long was the ark of the covenant at Abinadab's house? 7:1-2
266. Who may offer sacrifices to God? 7:7-9
267. Who was Samuel's firstborn son? 8:2
268. Does God help in times of need? 8:18
269. Who was the father of Kish? 9:1
270. Should we fear God? 12:14, 12:24
271. To kill or not to kill. 15:2-3
272. Was Haman an Agagite? 15:2-3, 7-8, 33-34
273. Does God repent? 15:11, 29, 35
274. Does God ever lie? 15:29
275. How many sons did Jesse have? 16:10-11, 17:12
276. When did Saul meet David? 16:21-22, 17:55-58
277. How did David kill Goliath? 17:49-51
278. Who killed Goliath? 17:49-51, 21:8-9
279. When David fled to Nob, what was the priest's name? 21:1
280. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 21:1
281. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech? 22:20, 23:6, 30:7
282. Did Saul inquire of the Lord? 28:6
283. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 28:11, 14
284. How did Saul die? 31:4-6
2 Samuel
285. How did Saul die? 1:8-10
286. Did Saul's family die with him? 2:9
287. The sons of David born in Hebron 3:2-5
288. When did Absalom rebel against David? 5:4, 15:7
289. The sons of David born in Jerusalem 5:14-16
290. How long was the ark of the covenant at Abinadab's house? 6:2-3
291. Where did God kill Uzza? 6:6
292. How many children did Michal have? 6:23, 21:8
293. Does God lie? 7:28
294. How many horsemen did David take? 8:4
295. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech? 8:17
296. How many men did David kill? 10:18
297. Are we punished for the sins of others? 12:18
298. How many sons did Absalom have? 14:27, 18:18
299. Who was Amasa's father? 17:25
300. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 21:1, 8-9, 14
301. Are we punished for the sins of others? 21:6
302. How did Saul die? 21:12
303. Who killed Goliath? 21:19
304. Who did Elhanan kill? 21:20
305. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill? 23:8
306. Who tempted David to number Israel? 24:1
307. Has God ever tempted anyone? 24:1
308. Is it OK to take a census? 24:1
309. How many soldiers? 24:9
310. Did David sin? 22:21, 22:25, 24:10
311. How many years of famine? 24:13
312. Is God merciful? 24:14
313. Does God repent? 24:16
314. For how much did David buy the threshing floor? 24:24
1 Kings
315. Are we punished for the sins of others? 2:33, 11:11-12
316. Who was the greatest: Jesus or Solomon? 3:12
317. Did David sin? 3:14, 9:4, 14:8
318. How many stalls did Solomon have? 4:26
319. How many overseers did Solomon have? 5:16
320. Which tribe was Hyram from? 7:13-14
321. How high were the pillars? 7:15
322. What was the volume of the molten sea in Solomon's temple? 7:26
323. What was in the Ark of the Covenant? 8:9
324. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 8:9
325. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 8:12
326. Does God dwell in temples? 8:13
327. Is anyone without sin? 8:46
328. How many officers did Solomon have? 9:23
329. How many talents of gold did Hiram send Solomon? 9:27-28
330. Will God destroy those that intermarry? 11:1-2
331. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 13:2
332. Who was Abijam's mother? 15:1-2
333. How were Abijam and Asa related? 15:1-2, 15:9-10
334. Did David sin? 15:5
335. How should homosexuals be treated? 15:11-12
336. Did Asa remove the high places? 15:14
337. Has there ever been a just, righteous, good or perfect person? 15:14
338. When did Baasha die? 16:6-8
339. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 17:22
340. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 17:22
341. Is it OK to test God? 18:36-38
342. How many gods are there? 18:39
343. Was Jehu the son or grandson of Nimshi? 19:16
344. Did Elisha receive Elijah's mantle before or after Elijah is taken up into heaven? 19:19
345. Are we punished for the sins of others? 21:29
346. Can God be seen? 22:19
347. Is it wrong to lie? 22:22
348. Does God lie? 22:22
349. Did Jehoshaphat remove the high places? 22:42-43
2 Kings
350. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 2:11
351. Is is OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 2:12, 6:21
352. Did Elisha receive Elijah's mantle before or after Elijah is taken up into heaven? 2:13
353. Were the Israelites to spare the trees in the countries they invaded? 3:19
354. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 4:32-35
355. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 4:32-35, 13:21
356. Are we punished for the sins of others? 5:27, 14:6
357. Is God the creator of evil? 6:33
358. Is it wrong to lie? 8:10
359. When did Ahaziah begin to reign? 8:25, 9:29
360. How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? 8:26
361. Was Jehu the son or grandson of Nimshi? 9:2
362. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel? 10:30
363. Where was Joash buried? 12:20-21
364. When did Jehoash become king of Israel? 13:1, 10
365. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 13:21
366. Does God respect anyone? 13:23
367. How long did Jotham reign? 15:30-33
368. Was Ahaz buried with his fathers? 16:20
369. Should we fear God? 17:39
370. Is it OK to make images? 18:3-4
371. Who is the Lord of this world? 19:15
372. Is it okay to test God? 20:8-11
373. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 21:6, 23:20
374. How did King Josiah die? 22:20, 23:29-30
375. Where did Josiah die? 23:29-30
376. Who succeeded Jehoiakim as king? 24:6
377. How old was Jehoachin when he began to reign? 24:8
378. How was Zedekiah related to Nebuchadnearrar? 24:17
379. Did Zedekiah's eyes see the king of Babylon? 25:7
380. On what day did the temple burn? 25:8-9
381. How high was the chapiter? 25:17
382. How many men were in the king's presence? 25:19
383. On what day of the month was Jehoiachin released from prison? 25:27
1 Chronicles
384. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam? 1:1-2
385. Was Keturah Abraham's wife or concubine? 1:32
386. Who was Anah? 1:38, 1:40
387. How many sons did Jesse have? 2:13-15
388. Who was Amasa's father? 2:17
389. The sons of David born in Hebron 3:1-4
390. The sons of David born in Jerusalem 3:5-8, 14:3-7
391. What were the generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity 3:11-16
392. Was Jechoniah the son or the grandson of Josiah? 3:15-16
393. Did Jeconiah have any sons? 3:17-18
394. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 3:19
395. Was Mahli the son of Levi? 6:1, 6:16, 23:6
396. Who was Samuel's firstborn son? 6:28
397. What tribe was Aijalon from? 6:66, 69
398. Who were the sons of Benjamin? 7:6, 8:1-2
399. Who was the father of Kish? 8:33, 9:39
400. How did Saul die? 10:4, 10:14
401. Did Saul's family die with him? 10:6
402. Did Saul inquire of the Lord? 10:13-14
403. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill? 11:11
404. Where did God kill Uzza? 13:9
405. Who is the Lord of this world? 16:14, 31
406. Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding? 16:15-17
407. How many gods are there? 16:25
408. Should we fear God? 16:25
409. Is God merciful? 16:34
410. How many horsemen did David take? 18:4
411. Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech? 18:16, 24:6
412. How many men did David kill? 19:18
413. Who did Elhanan kill? 20:5
414. Who tempted David to number Israel? 21:1
415. Is it OK to take a census? 21:2
416. How many soldiers? 21:5
417. How many years of famine? 21:12
418. Does God repent? 21:15
419. For how much did David buy the threshing floor? 21:25
420. Who owns the earth? 29:11
2 Chronicles
421. Which tribe was Hyram from? 2:13-14
422. Is it OK to take a census? 2:17
423. How many overseers did Solomon have? 2:18
424. How high were the pillars? 3:15
425. What was the volume of the molten sea in Solomon's temple? 4:5
426. What was in the Ark of the Covenant? 5:10
427. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 5:10
428. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 6:1
429. Is anyone without sin? 6:36
430. How many officers did Solomon have? 8:10
431. How many talents of gold did Hiram send Solomon? 8:18
432. How many stalls did Solomon have? 9:25
433. Who was Abijam's mother? 13:1-2
434. Did Asa remove the high places? 14:3, 5, 15:17
435. Was Asa perfect? 15:17, 16:7, 16:10, 16:12
436. When did Baasha die? 16:1
437. Did Jehoshaphat remove the high places? 17:5-6, 20:31-33
438. Does God ever lie? 18:22
439. Does God respect anyone? 19:7
440. How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? 22:2
441. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel? 22:7-9
442. Who was Zechariah's father? 24:20-21
443. Where was Joash buried? 24:24-25
444. Was Ahaz buried with his fathers? 28:27
445. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 32:31
446. Does God know everything? 32:31
447. Does God approve of human sacrifice? 34:1-5
448. How did King Josiah die? 35:23
449. Where did Josiah die? 35:24
450. Did Jehoiakim die in Babylon or near Jerusalem? 36:5-6
451. How old was Jehoachin when he began to reign? 36:9
452. How was Zedekiah related to Nebuchadnearrar? 36:10
Ezra
453. How many of Arah's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:5
454. How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab's offspring returned from B abylon? 2:6
455. How many of Zattu's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:8
456. How many of Bani's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:10
457. How many of Bebai's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:11
458. How many of Azgad's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:12
459. How many of Adonikam's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:13
460. How many of Bigvai's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:14
461. How many of Adin's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:15
462. How many of Bezai's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:17
463. How many of Bethlehem and Netophah's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:21
464. How many of Lod, Hadid, and Ono's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:33
465. How many of Senaah's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:35
466. How many of Asaph's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:41
467. How many children of the porters returned from Babylon? 2:42
468. How many of Delaiah, Tobiah, and Nekoda's offspring returned from Babylon? 2:60
469. How many singing men and women returned from Babylon? 2:65
470. How much gold, silver, and clothing did the people give? 2:69
471. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 3:2
472. Was Zechariah Iddo's son or grandson? 5:1, 6:14
473. Who is the Lord of this world? 5:11
474. Was Mahli the son of Levi? 8:18
Nehemiah
475. Should we fear God? 5:9
476. How many of Arah's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:10
477. How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:11
478. How many of Zattu's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:13
479. How many of Bani's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:15
480. How many of Bebai's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:16
481. How many of Azgad's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:17
482. How many of Adonikam's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:18
483. How many of Bigvai's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:19
484. How many of Adin's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:20
485. How many of Bezai's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:23
486. How many of Bethlehem and Netophah's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:26
487. How many of Lod, Hadid, and Ono's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:37
488. How many of Senaah's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:38
489. How many of Asaph's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:44
490. How many children of the porters returned from Babylon? 7:45
491. How many of Delaiah, Tobiah, and Nekoda's offspring returned from Babylon? 7:62
492. How many singing men and women returned from Babylon? 7:67
493. How much gold, silver, and clothing did the people give? 7:72
494. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 9:13
495. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 12:1
496. Did any Moabite enter the congregation of the Lord? 13:1
Esther
[est/contra.html]
Job
497. How many sons does God have? 1:6, 2:1, 38:4
498. Does God know everything? 1:7, 2:2, 42:2
499. Who brought evil on Job? 2:7, 42:11
500. Is death final? 7:7-9, 14:10, 12, 20:7
501. What is the earth set upon? 9:6, 26:7
502. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked? 9:22
503. Can God be found through reason alone? 11:7
504. Do evildoers prosper? 12:6
505. Has there ever been a righteous person? 15:14
506. Do the wicked live long? 21:7
507. Should we fear God? 28:28
508. Who is the Lord of this world? 34:13
509. Is wisdom a good thing? 37:24
510. When were the stars made? 38:7
511. Can God do anything? 42:1-2
512. Can God be seen? 42:5
Psalms
513. "The congregation of the righteous"
Has there ever been a righteous person? 1:5-6
514. Is it good to be foolish? 5:5
515. Does God love everyone? 5:5, 11:5
516. Is death final? 6:5, 31:17, 88:5, 115:17
517. Does God dwell in Zion? 9:1, 76:2, 123:1
518. Does God help in times of need? 10:1, 22:1-2, 22:24, 46:1, 145:18
519. Is every word of God pure? 12:6
520. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 14:1, 53:1
521. Does anyone ever do anything good? , 53:3
522. Is only God holy? 16:10
523. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 18:11, 97:2
524. Is the law of God perfect? 18:30, 19:7
525. Is God warlike or peaceful? 18:34, 144:1
526. Can God be found? 18:41
527. Should we fear God? 19:9, 25:14, 33:8, 33:18, 96:4, 103:11, 13, 17, 111:10, 112:1, 115:13, 128:1, 147:11
528. Who owns the earth? 24:1, 50:12, 89:11, 115:16
529. Is God merciful? 25:8, 86:5, 100:5, 103:8, 106:1, 107:1, 118:1, 136:1-26, 145:8-9
530. How long does God's anger last? 30:5
531. Do evildoers prosper? 34:21, 73:3, 7, 12
532. How should we treat our enemies? 35:6, 8, 55:15, 58:6-7, 83:9-18, 109:6-14
533. Has there ever been a just person? 37:12
534. Is it wrong to steal? 37:21
535. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 37:25, 112:1, 3
536. Will the earth last forever? 37:29, 78:69, 102:25-26, 104:5
537. Does God know everything? 44:21, 139:2-3
538. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 44:21, 139:2-3
539. Does God sleep? 44:23, 121:3-4
540. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 40:6, 50:13, 51:16
541. Who is the Lord of this world? 47:2, 7, 59:13, 83:18, 96:10, 97:1, 5, 99:1
542. Do the wicked live long? 55:23
543. Should we rejoice when we see our enemies suffer? 58:10
544. Is Salvation by faith alone? 62:12
545. What must you do to be saved? 62:12
546. Can God be seen? 63:2
547. Is it OK to take oaths? 63:11
548. When did God kill Leviathan and the sea dragon? 74:13-14
549. How many gods are there? 82:1, 6, 86:8, 96:4, 97:7, 136:2
550. Is only God holy? 86:2, 135:5
551. How long is the human lifespan? 90:10
552. Will the righteous flourish? 92:12
553. Is every word of God pure? 119:140
554. Do Christians need to follow Old Testament laws? 119:151-2, 160
555. Can only God work wonders? 136:4
556. Does God respect anyone? 138:6
557. Does God know and see everything? 139:3, 7
558. Is anyone justified? 143:2
Proverbs
559. How should parents be treated? 1:6, 23:22
560. Should we fear God? 1:7, 14:2, 22:4, 24:21
561. If you seek God, will you find him? 1:26-28, 8:17
562. Does wisdom make people happy? 3:13
563. Has there ever been a just person? 3:33, 4:18, 9:9, 10:6, 10:7, 10:20, 11:9, 12:13, 12:21, 17:15, 17:26, 20:7, 21:15, 24:16, 29:10, 29:27
564. Is wisdom a good thing? 4:7
565. Does God love everyone? 6:16, 19
566. Do the wicked live long and prosper? 10:27, 24:20
567. Do bad things happen to good people? 12:21, 19:23
568. Is it wrong to lie? 12:22, 13:5, 24:28
569. Should we believe everything? 14:15
570. Does God see and know everything? 15:3
571. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 15:6
572. Does God want some to go to hell? 16:4
573. If God likes you, will everyone else? 16:7
574. Is it good to be happy? 17:22
575. Is marriage a good thing? 18:22
576. Can anyone claim to be free from sin? 20:9
577. Has there ever been a perfect person? 20:9
578. What should we eat? 23:20
579. Should we rejoice when our enemies suffer? 24:17
580. How should enemies be treated? 25:21
581. Should you answer a fool according to his folly? 26:4-5
582. Is God's word pure? 30:5
Ecclesiastes
583. Will the earth last forever? 1:4
584. What's new? 1:9
585. Does wisdom make people happy? 1:18
586. Is dancing a sin? 3:4
587. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 3:19, 9:5, 9:10
588. Where does God dwell? 5:2
589. Should we fear God? 5:7, 12:13
590. Is it good to be happy? 7:3, 8:15
591. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked? 7:15
592. Has there ever been a just person? 7:15, 7:20, 8:14
593. Does anyone ever do anything good? 7:20
594. Is anyone without sin? 7:20
595. Do the wicked live long? 8:13
596. Is it OK to drink alcohol? 9:7
597. Is marriage a good thing? 9:9
598. Is money good or bad? 10:19
599. Should we follow our own hearts? 11:9
600. "The righteous ... are in the hand of God."
Has there ever been a righteous person? 9:1
Song of Solomon
Isaiah
601. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 1:11, 66:3
602. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 1:13, 56:2
603. Does God ever tire? 1:14, 40:28, 43:24
604. Does God help in times of need? 1:15, 45:15
605. Is only God holy? 4:3
606. Can God be seen? 6:1, 5
607. What should we eat? 7:14-15
608. Should we fear God? 8:13
609. Are we punished for the sins of others? 14:21
610. Has there ever been a just person? 26:7
611. Will everyone see the majesty of God? 26:10
612. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 26:14, 26:19, 38:18
613. When did God kill Leviathan and the sea dragon? 27:1
614. Does God ever get furious? 27:4, 34:2-3
615. Who is the Lord of this world? 37:16
616. Does God ever change his mind? 38:1-5
617. Will everyone see the majesty of God? 40:5
618. Has there ever been a righteous person? 41:26
619. How many gods are there? 43:10, 44:8, 45:5, 46:9
620. What's new? 43:19, 65:17
621. Is God the creator of evil? 45:7
622. Is it OK to swear? 45:23, 48:1, 65:16
623. Will the righteous flourish? 57:1
624. Will the earth last forever? 65:17
625. What's new? 65:17
Jeremiah
626. Is God merciful? 3:12
627. How long does God's anger last? 3:12
628. Is it OK to swear? 4:2, 12:16
629. Does God lie? 4:10, 20:7
630. Should we fear God? 5:22
631. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 6:20
632. Did God command the Israelites to make him burnt offerings? 7:22
633. Should we look for signs from heaven? 10:2
634. How many gods are there? 10:11, 25:6, 46:25
635. Do evildoers prosper? 12:1
636. Is God merciful and good? 13:13-14, 16:5
637. Does God help all those who call on him? 14:12
638. "I will cause them to be removed into all kingdoms of the earth, because of Manasseh ... for that which he did in Jerusalem."
Are we punished for the sins of others? 15:4
639. Does God repent? 15:6, 18:8-10, 26:3, 13, 19, 42:10
640. Does God become weary? 15:6
641. Are we punished for the sins of others? 16:10-11, 29:32, 31:29-30, 32:18
642. Can God see everything? 16:17, 23:24
643. How long does God's anger last? 17:4
644. Will God reward every person according to his works? 17:10, 32:18
645. What must you do to be saved? 17:10
646. Does God ever get furious? 21:5, 30:23
647. How should strangers be treated? 22:3
648. Where did Jehoiakim die? 22:18-19
649. Did Coniah (Jeconiah) have any sons? 22:28-30
650. Do the wicked prosper? 23:19
651. When did Nebuchadnezzar come to Jerusalem? 25:1
652. What's new? 31:22
653. Can God do anything? 32:17, 27
654. Did Zedekiah's eyes see the king of Babylon? 34:2, 5
655. Who succeeded Jehoiakim? 36:30
656. How should the Moabites be treated? 48:2
657. How should the Ammonites be treated? 49:2
658. On what day did the temple burn? 52:12-13
659. How high was the chapiter? 52:22
660. How many men were in the king's presence? 52:25
661. When was Jehoiachin released from prison? 52:31
Lamentations
662. How should we treat our enemies? 1:21-22, 3:64-66
663. Is God merciful? 2:2, 2:17, 2:21, 3:33, 3:43
664. Does God listen to and answer prayers? 3:8, 3:44
665. Has there ever been a just person? 4:13
Ezekiel
666. Does God have a body? 1:27, 8:2-3
667. Can God be seen? 1:27, 20:35
668. Is God merciful and good? 7:4, 9, 9:4-10
669. Does God help everyone who calls on him? 8:18
670. Does God lie? 14:9
671. Has there ever been a righteous person? 14:14, 20
672. Has there ever been a just person? 18:5-6, 18:9
673. Are we punished for the sins of others? 18:19-20
674. Does God destroy both the righteous and the wicked? 18:9, 19, 21:3-4, 33:19
675. Is salvation by faith alone? 18:27
676. What must you do to be saved? 18:27
677. Does god help in time of need? 20:3
678. Is every word of God pure? 23:20
679. Does God repent? 24:14
680. How should Edomites be treated? 25:13
681. Is death final? 37:12
682. Is it wrong to steal? 39:10
683. What is the correct recipe for the new moon sacrifice? 46:6
684. What were the twelve tribes of Israel? 48:1
Daniel
685. Is it OK to drink alcohol? 1:8
686. Is it OK to eat meat? 1:8
687. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 12:2
Hosea
688. Did God commend or condemn Jehu for the killings at Jezreel? 1:4
689. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 1:2-3, 3:1
690. Should we fear God? 3:5
691. Does God help in times of need? 5:6
692. Is God merciful? 6:6
693. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 6:6
694. Does God know and see everything? 8:4
695. Will Ephraim return to Egypt? 8:11, 9:3, 11:3-5
696. Does God love everyone? 9:15
697. Has there ever been a just person? 14:9
Joel
698. Is God good and merciful? 2:13
699. Does God help those who call on him? 2:32
700. Where does God live? 3:17, 21
Amos
701. Is God the creator of evil? 3:6
702. Has there ever been a just person? 5:12
703. Does God repent? 7:3, 6
704. Can God be seen? 7:7, 9:1
705. Can God be found? 8:12
Jonah
706. Does God see and know everything? 1:3, 1:10.
707. Who cast Jonah into the sea? 1:15, 2:3
708. Did a fish or a whale swallow Jonah? 1:17
709. Does God change his mind? 3:10
Micah
710. Is God merciful? 1:12, 6:8, 7:18
711. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 3:4
712. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:13
713. Does God get furious? 5:15
714. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 6:6-7
715. How long does God's anger last? 7:18
Nahum
716. Does God ever get furious? 1:2
717. Do the wicked prosper? 1:3
718. Does God help those in need? 1:7
719. Is it OK to steal? 2:9
Habakkuk
720. Does God help in times of need? 1:2
721. Do bad things happen to good people? 1:4, 1:13
722. Has there ever been a just person? 2:4
723. Is God's word pure? 2:16
724. Can God be seen? 3:3-5
725. Does God have a body? 3:3-5
Zephaniah
726. Are we punished for the sins of others? 1:8
727. How many gods are there? 2:11
Haggai
728. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 1:1
Zechariah
729. Who is Iddo's grandson? 1:1
730. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:14, 6:5
731. How should strangers be treated? 7:10
732. Does God ever get angry? 8:2
Malachi
733. Does God love everyone? 1:3
734. How long does God's anger last? 1:4
735. Is every word of God pure? 2:3
736. Should we fear God? 2:5
737. Does God change his mind? 3:6
738. Must we obey the Old Testament laws? 4:4
739. Where did Moses receive the ten commandments? 4:4
740. Will God curse the earth? 4:6
741. How should we treat our parents? 4:6[/spoiler:38fv4vl2]
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:07:49 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:07:49 PM
And, the New Testament:
[spoiler:2aldd1zm]Matthew
742. How many generations from Jesus to Abraham? 1:2-16, 17
743. From which of David's sons was Jesus descended? 1:6-7
744. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs Lk.3) 1:6-16
745. Generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity 1:11
746. Was Jeconiah the son or the grandson of Josiah? 1:11
747. Did Jeconiah have any sons? 1:12
748. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 1:12
749. Who was Jesus' grandfather on his father's side? 1:16
750. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 1:18, 22:41-45
751. Has there ever been a just person? 1:19, 5:45, 13:49
752. When was Jesus born? 2:1
753. Where did Joseph and Mary live before the birth of Jesus? 2:1-2, 11, 22-23
754. Did Jesus, Mary, and Joseph go to Egypt or Nazareth? 2:14
755. Where did John baptize? 3:4-6
756. Were the Pharisees baptized by John? 3:7-11
757. How did God address Jesus at his baptism? 3:17
758. Can God be tempted? 4:7
759. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 4:7
760. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:8-9, 11:25
761. Who owns the earth? 4:8-9
762. Should we serve God alone? 4:10, 23:10
763. Should we let others see our good works? 5:16, 6:1, 23:3, 5
764. Must we obey Old Testament Laws? 5:18-19
765. Will the earth last forever? 5:18, 24:35
766. Is Salvation by faith alone? 5:20, 12:37, 16:27, 19:16-17, 25:41-46
767. Has there ever been a righteous person? 5:20, 23:35, 25:46
768. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 5:22, 23:17, 19
769. Is divorce ever permissible? 5:32, 19:6, 19:9
770. Is it OK to take oaths? 5:34-37
771. How should we treat our enemies? 5:44
772. How should nonbelievers be treated? 5:44, 7:12, 22:29
773. Is anyone good? 5:45, 13:47-48, 22:10
774. Should Christians pray in public? 6:5-6
775. Do Christians know how to pray? 6:9-13
776. Is God's will always done in heaven? 6:10
777. Has God ever tempted anyone? 6:13
778. Should Christians be concerned with material things? 6:31, 34
779. To judge or not to judge 7:1
780. What must you do to be saved? 5:20, 7:1, 7:7-8, 7:21, 10:22, 12:37, 16:37, 18:3, 19:17, 19:23-24, 22:14, 24:13, 25:34-36
781. Can God be found? 7:8
782. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 7:21
783. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus? 7?21-23
784. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant? 8:5-9
785. Did Jesus know everything? 8:10
786. What will happen to Jews when they die? 8:12
787. How many men were possessed with devils? 8:28
788. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 9:13, 12:7
789. Was Jarius's daughter alive when Jesus was approached? 9:18
790. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 9:18
791. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 9:24-25, 25:46, 27:53-54
792. Who were the apostles? 10:2-4
793. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 10:5-6, 15:24, 28:19
794. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff? 10:10
795. When will the end of the world come? 10:23, 24:14
796. Should we fear God? 10:28
797. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 10:34, 26:52
798. Who was the greatest: Jesus, Solomon, or John the Baptist? 11:11, 12:42
799. Was John the Baptist Elijah? 11:13-14, 17:12-13
800. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 12:2-5
801. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 12:3-4
802. Who is for or against Jesus? 12:30
803. Is there an unforgivable sin? 12:31
804. How are people judged by God? 12:37
805. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 12:39, 16:4
806. Is anyone justified? 12:37
807. Was Jonah swallowed by a fish or a whale? 12:40
808. How should parents be treated? 12:47-48, 23:9
809. When did the transfiguration occur? 17:1
810. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 18:3, 19:14
811. Can God be seen? 18:9
812. Is marriage a good thing? 19:4-5, 19:10-12
813. What was Jesus' sixth commandment? 19:17-19
814. Is it OK to steal? 19:18
815. Is it OK to kill? 19:18
816. Is it OK to be rich? 19:23-24
817. Can God do anything? 19:26
818. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection? 20:18-19, 26:31-32
819. How much power did Jesus have? 20:23, 28:18
820. Who asked Jesus for the best seats in heaven? 20:20-21
821. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all? 20:28
822. How many blind men were healed near Jericho? 20:30
823. When was the blind man (or men) healed? 20:30
824. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 21:2-7
825. When did Jesus curse the fig tree? 21:12, 17-19
826. When did the cursed fig tree die? 21:19-20
827. Is is OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 23:9
828. Who was Zechariah's father? 23:35
829. How long does God's anger last? 25:41, 25:46
830. When was heaven created? 25:34
831. How should strangers be treated? 25:35
832. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice? 26:34
833. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 26:34
834. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 26:39, 42
835. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 26:47-49
836. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 26:57
837. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"? 26:59-61
838. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest? 26:63-64
839. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 26:69
840. How did Judas die? 27:5
841. What did Judas do with the silver? 27:5
842. Who bought the Potter's field? 27:6-7
843. Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate? 27:12-14
844. Who put the robe on Jesus? 27:27-28
845. What color was Jesus' robe? 27:28
846. Who carried Jesus' cross? 27:32
847. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 27:34
848. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 27:37
849. Did both thieves revile Jesus? 27:44
850. What were the last words of Jesus? 27:46
851. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died? 27:54
852. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 27:55
853. Who buried Jesus? 27:57-60
854. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre? 28:1
855. How many women went to the sepulchre? 28:1
856. Who did the women see at the tomb? 28:2
857. Was the tomb open or closed? 28:2
858. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when first seen? 28:2
859. Did the women immediately tell the disciples? 28:8
860. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 28:1, 9
861. Was Mary Magdalene happy or sad when she saw the risen Jesus? 28:8-12
862. Did the Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her? 28:9
863. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus? 28:9
864. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 28:10
865. Where did Jesus first appear after the resurrection? 28:16
866. In whose name is baptism to be performed? 28:19
Mark
867. How did God address Jesus at his baptism? 1:11
868. Where did John baptize? 1:0
869. What did Jesus do after his baptism? 1:12-13
870. Which came first: the calling of Peter and Andrew or the imprisonment of John the Baptist? 1:14-17
871. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God? 1:23-24, 3:11, 5:2-7
872. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 2:25-26
873. When David fled to Nob, what was the priest's name? 2:26
874. Who were the apostles? 3:18
875. How should parents be treated? 3:32-33
876. Is there an unforgivable sin? 3:29
877. How many men were possessed with devils? 5:1-2
878. Was Jarius's daughter alive when Jesus was approached? 5:22-23
879. Did Jesus know everything? 5:30, 13:32
880. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 5:39-42
881. How much power did Jesus have? 6:5
882. Can God do anything? 6:5, 10:27
883. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff? 6:8-9
884. Has there ever been a just person? 6:20
885. What should we eat? 7:18
886. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 8:12, 16:20
887. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection? 8:31, 10:33-34, 14:28
888. When did the transfiguration occur? 9:2
889. Was John the Baptist Elijah? 9:13
890. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus? 9:38, 16:17
891. Is casting out devils a sign of a true Christian? 9:38, 16:17
892. Who is for or against Jesus? 9:40
893. Is divorce ever permissible? 10:11
894. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 10:15
895. Has there ever been a just, righteous, good or perfect person? 10:18
896. Is anyone good? 10:18
897. What was Jesus' sixth commandment? 10:18
898. To kill or not to kill 10:19
899. Is it OK to steal? 10:19
900. Who asked Jesus for the best seats in heaven? 10:35-37
901. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all? 10:45
902. How many blind men were healed near Jericho? 10:46
903. When was the blind man (or men) healed? 20:30
904. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 11:7
905. When did Jesus curse the fig tree? 11:12-17
906. When did the cursed fig tree die? 11:13-14, 20-21
907. How many gods are there? 12:29, 32
908. How should nonbelievers be treated? 12:31
909. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 12:35-37
910. When was the Holy Ghost given? 12:36
911. What must you do to be saved? 13:13
912. Will the earth last forever? 13:31
913. Was Jesus crucified the day before or the day after the Passover meal? 14:12, 15:25
914. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice? 14:30
915. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 14:35-36
916. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 14:43-45
917. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 14:57
918. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"? 14:57-58
919. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest? 14:62
920. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 14:66-72
921. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 14:66-71
922. Who put the robe on Jesus? 15:15-17
923. What color was Jesus' robe? 15:17
924. Who carried Jesus' cross? 15:21
925. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 15:23
926. When was Jesus Crucified? 15:25
927. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 15:26
928. Did both thieves revile Jesus? 15:32
929. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died? 15:39
930. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 15:40
931. Who buried Jesus? 15:43-46
932. How many women came to the sepulchre? 16:1
933. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre? 16:1-2
934. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived? 16:3-4
935. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when the women arrived? 16:5
936. Who did the women see at the tomb? 16:5
937. Were the men or angels sitting or standing? 16:5
938. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 16:7
939. Did the women immediately tell the disciples? 16:8
940. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 16:9
941. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 16:9-19
942. Did the eleven disciples believe the two men? 16:12-13
943. Where did Jesus first appear to his disciples? 16:14
944. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 16:15
945. How are people judged by God? 16:16
946. What must you do to be saved? 16:16
947. Is Salvation by faith alone? 16:16
Luke
948. Has there ever been a righteous person? 1:5-6
949. Does righteousness come from following the Law? 1:6
950. When was the Holy Ghost given? 1:15, 1:41, 67, 2:26
951. Can God do anything? 1:37, 18:27
952. When was Jesus born? 2:1
953. Where did Joseph and Mary live before the birth of Jesus? 2:1-7
954. Has there ever been a just person? 1:17, 2:25, 14:14, 15:7, 23:50
955. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 1:34, 20:41-45
956. Should we fear God? 1:50, 12:5
957. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 2:14
958. Is only God holy? 2:23
959. Did Jesus, Mary, and Joseph go to Egypt or Nazareth? 2:39
960. Is it wrong to lie? 3:14
961. How did God address Jesus at his baptism? 3:22
962. Who was Jesus' grandfather on his father's side? 3:23
963. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs Lk.3) 3:21-31
964. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 3:27
965. From which of David's sons was Jesus descended? 3:31
966. Who was the father of Salah? 3:35-36
967. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam? 3:37-38
968. How many sons does God have? 3:38
969. Who owns the earth? 4:5-6
970. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:5-7
971. Can God be tempted? 4:12
972. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 4:12
973. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 6:3-4
974. Who were the apostles? 6:13-16
975. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 6:24-26
976. Is it good to be happy? 6:24-26
977. How should nonbelievers be treated? 6:27, 6:31, 10:27
978. How should we treat our enemies? 6:35
979. To judge or not to judge. 6:37
980. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant? 7:3
981. Did Jesus know everything? 7:9
982. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 7:12-15, 9:30
983. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 7:12-15, 9:30, 14:14, 20:37
984. Were the Pharisees baptized by John? 7:29-30
985. How many men were possessed with devils? 8:27-37
986. Was Jarius' daughter alive when Jesus was approached? 8:41-42
987. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff? 9:3
988. When did the transfiguration occur? 9:28
989. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus? 9:49
990. Is casting out devils a sign of a true Christian? 9:49
991. Who is for or against Jesus? 9:50, 11:23
992. Did the Samaritans receive Jesus? 9:52-53
993. How should parents be treated? 9:59-60, 14:26
994. Who is the Lord of this world? 10:21
995. How are people judged by God? 10:25-26
996. Is Salvation by faith alone? 10:25-26
997. What must you do to be saved? 6:24, 6:37, 10:26, 18:18-22
998. What kind of animals may we eat? 10:8
999. Can God be found? 11:9-10, 13:24
1000. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 11:29
1001. Who was the greatest: Jesus or Solomon? 11:31
1002. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 11:40, 24:25
1003. Is there an unforgivable sin? 12:10
1004. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 12:51, 22:36
1005. Should we love or hate our brother? 14:26
1006. Must we obey Old Testament Laws? 16:16-17
1007. Is divorce ever permissible? 16:18
1008. Is it OK for a divorced woman to remarry? 16:18
1009. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 18:17
1010. What was Jesus' sixth commandment? 18:20
1011. To kill or not to kill 18:20
1012. Is it OK to steal? 18:20
1013. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection? 18:33, 24:6-8
1014. How many blind men were healed near Jericho? 18:35
1015. When was the blind man (or men) healed? 18:35
1016. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 19:30-35
1017. Should we look for signs in the heavens? 21:11
1018. Will the earth last forever? 21:33
1019. When did Satan enter Judas? 22:3, 7
1020. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 22:41-42
1021. Did Jesus say "before the cock crow" or "before the cock crow twice?" 22:34
1022. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 22:34
1023. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 22:47-48
1024. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 22:54
1025. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 22:54-62
1026. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest? 22:70
1027. Who put the robe on Jesus? 23:11
1028. Who carried Jesus' cross? 23:26
1029. Can thieves go to heaven? 23:32-43
1030. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 23:36
1031. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 23:38
1032. Did both thieves revile Jesus? 23:39-42
1033. What were the last words of Jesus? 23:46
1034. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died? 23:47
1035. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 23:49
1036. Who buried Jesus? 23:50-53
1037. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 24:1-51
1038. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived? 24:2
1039. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when the women arrived? 24:3-4
1040. Who did the women see at the tomb? 24:3-4
1041. Were the men or angels sitting or standing? 24:3-4
1042. Did the women immediately tell the disciples? 24:9
1043. How many women came? 24:10
1044. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 24:13-31
1045. Did the Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her? 24:23, 36
1046. Where did Jesus first appear after the resurrection? 24:33-37
1047. Did Jesus appear to ten, eleven or twelve disciples? 24:33, 36
1048. Did the eleven disciples believe the two men? 24:33-34
1049. Were the disciples frightened or gladdened when they saw Jesus? 24:37
1050. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus before his ascension? 24:39
1051. Does God have a body? 24:39
1052. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 24:49
John
1053. How many sons did God have? 1:12, 3:16, 18
1054. Can God be seen? 1:18, 6:46,
1055. Was John the Baptist Elijah? 1:21
1056. Where did John baptize? 1:28
1057. What did Jesus do after his baptism? 1:35, 1:43, 2:1,
1058. Which came first: the calling of Peter and Andrew or the imprisonment of John the Baptist? 1:40-42, 3:22-24
1059. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"? 2:19
1060. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 2:19-21
1061. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 3:2, 20:30
1062. What must you do to be saved? 3:3, 3:5, 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 5:29, 6:37, 6:53-54
1063. How are people judged by God? 3:3, 5, 3:18, 3:36, 5:29
1064. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 3:13
1065. Does God love everyone? 3:16
1066. Is Salvation by faith alone? 3:18, 3:36, 5:29
1067. Did Jesus baptize anyone? 3:22, 4:2
1068. Does God have a body? 4:24
1069. Did the Samaritans receive Jesus? 4:39-40
1070. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 5:16-17
1071. Does Jesus judge people? 5:22, 5:27, 8:15, 9:39, 12:47
1072. Is death final? 5:28-29
1073. Does anyone ever do anything good? 5:29
1074. How are people judged by God? 5:29
1075. Did Jesus bears witness of himself? 5:31, 8:14, 8:18
1076. To judge or not to judge. 7:24
1077. When was the Holy Ghost given? 7:39, 20:22
1078. How should adulterers be punished? 8:3-8
1079. Must everyone die? 8:51, 11:26
1080. Who makes people blind? 9:1-3
1081. Is it possible to fall from grace? 10:28
1082. How many gods are there? 10:33-34, 17:3
1083. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 11:39-44
1084. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 11:39-44
1085. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 12:14
1086. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 12:27
1087. Who is the Lord of this world? 12:31, 14:30, 16:11
1088. Does God want some to go to hell? 12:40
1089. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve? 12:40
1090. When did Satan enter Judas? 13:27
1091. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice? 13:38
1092. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 13:38
1093. When was heaven created? 14:2
1094. Who sent the Holy Ghost? 14:26, 15:26
1095. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 14:27, 16:33
1096. Did Jesus tell his disciples everything? 15:15, 16:12
1097. Did Peter ask Jesus where he was going? 13:36, 16.5
1098. Did Jesus know everything? 16:30, 21:17
1099. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 18:3-5
1100. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 18:13
1101. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 18:17-18, 18:25-27
1102. Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate? 18:33-38
1103. Who put the robe on Jesus? 19:1-2
1104. What color was Jesus' robe? 19:2
1105. When was Jesus Crucified? 19:14-16
1106. Was Jesus crucified the day before or the day after the Passover meal? 19:15
1107. Who carried Jesus' cross? 19:17
1108. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 19:19
1109. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 19:25
1110. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 19:29
1111. Did Jesus drink on the cross? 19:29-30
1112. What were the last words of Jesus? 19:30
1113. Who buried Jesus? 19:38-42
1114. How many women came to the sepulchre? 20:1
1115. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre? 20:1
1116. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived? 20:1
1117. Did Jesus tell the apostles about his resurrection? 20:9
1118. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 20-11-14:
1119. Were the men or angels sitting or standing? John 20:11-12
1120. Was Mary Magdalene happy or sad when she saw the risen Jesus? 20:11-15
1121. Who did the women see at the tomb? 20:12
1122. Did the Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her? 20:14
1123. Where did Jesus first appear after the resurrection? 20:19
1124. Did Jesus appear to ten, eleven or twelve disciples? 20:19-24
1125. Were the disciples frightened or gladdened when they saw Jesus? 20:20
1126. Did Luke include everything that Jesus did? 21:25
1127. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 20:26
1128. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus before his ascension? 20:17, 20:26-27
Acts
1129. Did Luke include everything that Jesus did? 1:1-2
1130. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 1:1-2, 9, Acts 13:31
1131. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 1:4
1132. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 1:8, 8:25, 15:3, 7, 16:6, 22:21, 28:28
1133. Who were the apostles? 1:13
1134. How many believers were there at the time of the ascension? 1:15
1135. When was the Holy Ghost given? 1:16, 2:1-4
1136. How did Judas die? 1:18
1137. Who bought the potter's field? 1:18
1138. What did Judas do with the silver? 1:18
1139. Does God know everything? 1:24
1140. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 1:24
1141. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 2:21
1142. What must you do to be saved? 2:21, 16:30-31
1143. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 2:22
1144. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 2:30, 13:23
1145. Who buried Jesus? 13:27-29
1146. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 2:32, 4:10, 13:30
1147. In whose name is baptism to be performed? 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5
1148. Should we obey human or divine law? 5:29
1149. How old was Abraham when he left Haran? 7:4
1150. How old was Abraham when Ishmael was born? 7:4
1151. How long was the Egyptian Captivity? 7:6
1152. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt? 7:14
1153. Where was Jacob buried? 7:15
1154. Who bought the sepulchre in Sechem from the sons of Hamor? 7:16
1155. Was Moses a good speaker? 7:22
1156. "By the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush"
Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush? 7:35
1157. Does God dwell in temples? 7:48
1158. Did the men with Paul hear the voice? 9:7, 22:9
1159. Were the men with Paul knocked to the ground? 9:7, 26:14
1160. Did Paul go to Jerusalem from Damascus immediately after his conversion? 9:26-28
1161. What kind of animals may we eat? 10:10-13
1162. Has there ever been a just person? 10:22, 24:15
1163. Does God respect anyone? 10:34
1164. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 10:36
1165. Is there an unforgivable sin? 13:39
1166. Do humans have free will? 13:48
1167. Can God be tempted? 15:10
1168. Is Salvation by faith alone? 16:30-31
1169. Who is the Lord of this world? 17:24
1170. Can women be church leaders? 18:26
1171. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 26:23
1172. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 26:23
Romans
1173. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 1:3
1174. Is Salvation by faith alone? 1:16, 2:6, 2:13, 3:20, 3:28, 4:2, 4:5-6, 4:13, 5:1, 10:9
1175. Has there ever been a just person? 1:17
1176. Can God be found through reason alone? 1:20
1177. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 1:22
1178. Should we judge others? 2:1, 14:10
1179. What must you do to be saved? 2:6, 13, 5:1, 8:29-30, 9:11, 10:9
1180. Does God respect anyone? 2:11
1181. Has there ever been a righteous person? 3:10, 12, 23
1182. Should we fear God? 3:10-18
1183. Does anyone ever do anything good? 3:12
1184. Do Christians sin? 3:23
1185. What must you do to be saved? 3:28
1186. Was Abraham justified by faith or works? 4:2, 4:13
1187. Must everyone die? 5:12
1188. Who was to blame for original sin? 5:12
1189. Must Christians obey Old Testament Laws? 6:14, 7:4, 6, 10:4
1190. Do Christians know how to pray? 8:26
1191. Do humans have free will? 8:29-30, 9:11-22
1192. Is it possible to fall from grace? 8:38-29
1193. Does God love everyone? 9:13
1194. Does God want some to go to hell? 9:18
1195. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 10:13
1196. What will happen to Jews when they die? 11:26
1197. Is it OK to curse people? 12:14
1198. Should we obey human or divine law? 13:1-4
1199. Is it wrong to covet? 13:9
1200. How should nonbelievers be treated? 13:9
1201. What kind of animals may we eat? 14:2, 14:14, 14:21
1202. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 14:5
1203. Should we try to please others? 15:2
1204. Is God warlike or peaceful? 15:33
1205. Can women be church leaders? 16:1, 16:7
1 Corinthians
1206. Is wisdom a good thing? 1:19
1207. Is it good to be foolish? 1:21, 3:18-19, 4:10
1208. Is God the author of confusion? 1:27
1209. To judge or not to judge. 2:15, 5:3, 5:12-13, 6:2-3
1210. Can thieves go to heaven? 6:9
1211. Is marriage a good thing? 7:1, 7:7, 7:27
1212. Is all Scripture inspired by God? 7:12
1213. Is it OK to marry unbelievers? 7:12-14
1214. Is divorce ever permissible? 7:15, 7:25
1215. How many gods are there? 8:6
1216. Did Paul see Jesus? 9:1, 15:8
1217. What kind of animals may we eat? 10:25
1218. Who owns the earth? 10:26
1219. How many did God kill for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab"? 10:8
1220. Should we try to please others? 10:33
1221. Is it OK for men to have long hair? 11:14
1222. Is it OK to covet? 12:31, 14:39
1223. Should we believe everything? 13:7
1224. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 13:11, 14:20
1225. Is God the author of confusion? 14:33
1226. Is God warlike or peaceful? 14:33
1227. Can women be church leaders? 14:34-35
1228. Did Jesus appear to the ten, eleven or the twelve? 15:5
1229. How many believers were there at the time of the ascension? 15:6
1230. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 15:5
1231. What must you do to be saved? 15:29
1232. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 15:14, 15:52
1233. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 15:36
1234. Is it OK to curse people? 16:22
1235. How should we treat our enemies? 16:22
2 Corinthians
1236. Is God Merciful? 1:3
1237. Must Christians obey the Old Testament's laws? 3:14
1238. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve? 4:3-4
1239. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:4
1240. Is Salvation by faith alone? 5:10, 11:15
1241. Does Jesus judge people? 5:10
1242. What must you do to be saved? 5:10, 11:15
1243. Does anyone ever do anything good? 5:10
1244. What's new? 5:17
1245. How should nonbelievers be treated? 6:14-17
1246. Is it OK to marry unbelievers? 6:14-17
1247. Should we fear God? 7:1
Galatians
1248. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 1:1
1249. Should we try to please others? 1:10
1250. Did Paul go to Jerusalem from Damascus immediately after his conversion? 1:16-17
1251. "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."
Did Paul visit all of the disciples when he went to Jerusalem after his conversion? 1:18-19
1252. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 2:2
1253. Does God respect anyone? 2:6
1254. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:16, 3:11-12
1255. What must you do to be saved? 2:16
1256. Does righteousness come from following the Law? 2:21
1257. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 3:1
1258. Are those who obey the law cursed? 3:10
1259. Has there ever been a just person? 3:11
1260. Must Christians obey the Old Testament's laws? 3:13, 3:24
1261. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 3:16
1262. How many sons did Abraham have? 4:22
1263. Is circumcision required? 5:2
1264. Is it possible to fall from grace? 5:4
1265. How should nonbelievers be treated? 5:14
1266. Do Christians need to follow Old Testament laws? 5:18
1267. Should we bear each other's burdens? 6:2, 5
Ephesians
1268. Do humans have free will? 1:4-5, 2:8
1269. What must you do to be saved? 1:4-5
1270. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:8-9
1271. Must we obey Old Testament Laws? 2:15
1272. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 4:14
1273. Is it wrong to lie? 4:25
1274. Is it wrong to steal? 4:28
1275. Is it OK to covet? 5:3
1276. Is it good to be foolish? 5:15
1277. Should we fear God? 5:21
1278. How should parents be treated? 6:2
1279. Should you serve God alone? 6:5
1280. Does God respect anyone? 6:9
Philippians
1281. Is salvation by faith alone? 2:12
Colossians
1282. Can God be seen? 1:15
1283. Did Jesus know everything? 2:2-3
1284. Who was the greatest: Jesus or Solomon? 2:2-3
1285. Is circumcision required? 2:10-11
1286. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 2:12
1287. Must Christians obey the Old Testament's laws? 2:14
1288. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 2:16
1289. Is it okay to covet? 3:5
1290. Is it okay to lie? 3:9
1291. Should you serve God alone? 3:18, 3:20, 3:22
1292. Should we fear God? 3:2
1293. Does God respect anyone? 3:25
1 Thessalonians
1294. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 1:10
1295. Is it wrong to steal? 4:6
1296. Is the day of the Lord at hand? 4:17, 5:23
1297. Should we believe everything? 5:21
2 Thessalonians
1298. Is the day of the Lord at hand? 2:2-3
1299. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve? 2:2-3
1300. Can only God work wonders? 2:9
1301. Does God ever lie? 2:11
1302. Do humans have free will? 2:11-12, 13
1303. Does God want some to go to hell? 2:11-12
1304. Is God warlike or peaceful? 3:16
1 Timothy
1305. Does God approve of slavery? 1:9-10
1306. Can God be seen? 1:17, 6:16
1307. Does God want some to go to hell? 2:4
1308. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all? 2:6
1309. Should Christians pray in public? 2:8
1310. Can women be church leaders? 2:11-12
1311. What must you do to be saved? 2:14-15
1312. Must everyone die? 2:14
1313. Is childbearing sinful? 2:15
1314. Is marriage a good thing? 4:1-3
1315. What should we eat? 4:1-4
1316. Should Christians be concerned with material things? 5:8
1317. Should you serve God alone? 6:1
1318. Is money good or bad? 6:10
1319. Was Jesus silent during his trial? 6:13
1320. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 6:16
2 Timothy
1321. Should we fear God? 1:7
1322. Do humans have free will? 1:9
1323. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 2:8
1324. Can the devil capture us at will? 2:26
1325. If God likes you, will everyone else like you too? 3:12
1326. Is all Scripture inspired by God? 3:16
Titus
1327. Does God ever lie? 1:2
1328. Should you serve God alone? 2:9
1329. Is Salvation by faith alone? 3:5
1330. What must you do to be saved? 3:5
Hebrews
1331. Will the earth last forever? 1:11
1332. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 2:16
1333. Is it possible to fall from grace? 6:4-6
1334. Can God do anything? 6:18
1335. Does God ever lie? 6:18
1336. Is everyone descended from Adam and Eve? 7:3
1337. Is the law of God perfect? 8:6-7
1338. What was in the Ark of the Covenant? 9:4
1339. Must everyone die? 9:27, 11:5
1340. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 10:4, 10:11
1341. Should we fear God? 10:31
1342. Has there ever been a just person? 10:38
1343. Has there ever been a righteous person? 11:4
1344. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 11:5
1345. Did Sarah have faith that she would conceive? 11:11
1346. How many sons did Abraham have? 11:17
1347. Did Moses fear the king? 11:27
1348. Was Rahab saved by faith or works? 11:31
1349. Do bad things happen to good people? 12:6
1350. Is marriage a good thing? 13:4
1351. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 13:4
1352. Is God warlike or peaceful? 13:20
James
1353. Can God be tempted? 1:13
1354. Has God ever tempted anyone? 1:13
1355. Does God repent? 1:17
1356. How should nonbelievers be treated? 2:8
1357. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:14, 2:17, 2:20, 2:24-26
1358. What must you do to be saved? 2:17, 5:1
1359. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God? 2:19
1360. Was Abraham justified by faith or works? 2:21
1361. Is it wrong to lie? 2:25
1362. Was Rahab saved by faith or works? 2:25
1363. Can the devil capture us at will? 4:7
1364. To judge or not to judge 4:12
1365. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 5:1
1366. Has there ever been a just person? 5:6
1367. Is God merciful? 5:11
1368. Is it OK to take oaths? 5:12
1369. Has there ever been a righteous person? 5:16
1 Peter
1370. Does God respect anyone? 1:17
1371. Is Salvation by faith alone? 1:17
1372. What must you do to be saved? 1:17
1373. Should we let others see our good works? 2:12
1374. Should we obey human or divine law? 2:13
1375. Should we fear God? 2:17
1376. Should you serve God alone? 2:18
1377. Do bad things happen to good people? 3:13
1378. Are we punished for the sins of others? 3:18
1379. Is the devil tied up or free to roam? 5:8
2 Peter
1380. Is the devil tied up or free to roam? 2:4
1381. Has there ever been a just person? 2:5, 2:7-8
1382. Was Lot a righteous man? 2:7-8
1383. Has there ever been a righteous person? 2:5, 2:7-8
1384. Has there ever been a just person? 2:7
1385. Is it possible to fall from grace? 2:20-21
1386. Does God want some to go to hell? 3:9
1387. Will the earth last forever? 3:10, 3:13
1388. What's new? 3:13
1 John
1389. Is anyone without sin? 1:8, 10, 3:6, 9
1390. Has there ever been a just, righteous, good or perfect person? 1:8, 10, 3:6, 9, 5:18
1391. Is it OK to call someone father? 2:13-14
1392. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God? 4:2, 4:15, 5:1
1393. What must you do to be saved? 4:7
1394. Should we love or hate our brother? 3:15, 4:20-21
1395. Should we fear God? 4:8, 4:18
1396. Does God love everyone? 4:8, 16
1397. Is God the creator of evil? 4:8
1398. How many sons did God have? 4:9
1399. Can God be seen? 4:12
1400. How many gods are there? 5:7
3 John
1401. Do Christians sin? 11
1402. Does anyone ever do anything good? 11
Jude
1403. Do humans have free will? 1:4
1404. Is the devil free to roam? 1:6
1405. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam? 14
Revelation
1406. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:23, 20:12-13, 22:14
1407. What must you do to be saved? 2:23, 14:3-4,, 14:12, 20:12-13, 22:14
1408. What were the 12 tribes of Israel? 7:6
1409. Is it OK to take oaths? 10:5-6
1410. Is God's will always done in heaven? 12:7
1411. Should we fear God? 14:7, 15:4
1412. Is only God holy? 15:4
1413. Can God do anything? 19:6
1414. Is Jesus peaceful? 19:11
1415. Does Jesus judge others? 19:11
1416. Is death final? 20:12-13
1417. What's new? 21:1
1418. Will the earth last forever? 21:1
1419. Is it wrong to lie? 21:8, 21:27
1420. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 22:16[/spoiler:2aldd1zm]
[spoiler:2aldd1zm]Matthew
742. How many generations from Jesus to Abraham? 1:2-16, 17
743. From which of David's sons was Jesus descended? 1:6-7
744. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs Lk.3) 1:6-16
745. Generations from David to the Babylonian Captivity 1:11
746. Was Jeconiah the son or the grandson of Josiah? 1:11
747. Did Jeconiah have any sons? 1:12
748. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 1:12
749. Who was Jesus' grandfather on his father's side? 1:16
750. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 1:18, 22:41-45
751. Has there ever been a just person? 1:19, 5:45, 13:49
752. When was Jesus born? 2:1
753. Where did Joseph and Mary live before the birth of Jesus? 2:1-2, 11, 22-23
754. Did Jesus, Mary, and Joseph go to Egypt or Nazareth? 2:14
755. Where did John baptize? 3:4-6
756. Were the Pharisees baptized by John? 3:7-11
757. How did God address Jesus at his baptism? 3:17
758. Can God be tempted? 4:7
759. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 4:7
760. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:8-9, 11:25
761. Who owns the earth? 4:8-9
762. Should we serve God alone? 4:10, 23:10
763. Should we let others see our good works? 5:16, 6:1, 23:3, 5
764. Must we obey Old Testament Laws? 5:18-19
765. Will the earth last forever? 5:18, 24:35
766. Is Salvation by faith alone? 5:20, 12:37, 16:27, 19:16-17, 25:41-46
767. Has there ever been a righteous person? 5:20, 23:35, 25:46
768. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 5:22, 23:17, 19
769. Is divorce ever permissible? 5:32, 19:6, 19:9
770. Is it OK to take oaths? 5:34-37
771. How should we treat our enemies? 5:44
772. How should nonbelievers be treated? 5:44, 7:12, 22:29
773. Is anyone good? 5:45, 13:47-48, 22:10
774. Should Christians pray in public? 6:5-6
775. Do Christians know how to pray? 6:9-13
776. Is God's will always done in heaven? 6:10
777. Has God ever tempted anyone? 6:13
778. Should Christians be concerned with material things? 6:31, 34
779. To judge or not to judge 7:1
780. What must you do to be saved? 5:20, 7:1, 7:7-8, 7:21, 10:22, 12:37, 16:37, 18:3, 19:17, 19:23-24, 22:14, 24:13, 25:34-36
781. Can God be found? 7:8
782. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 7:21
783. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus? 7?21-23
784. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant? 8:5-9
785. Did Jesus know everything? 8:10
786. What will happen to Jews when they die? 8:12
787. How many men were possessed with devils? 8:28
788. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 9:13, 12:7
789. Was Jarius's daughter alive when Jesus was approached? 9:18
790. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 9:18
791. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 9:24-25, 25:46, 27:53-54
792. Who were the apostles? 10:2-4
793. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 10:5-6, 15:24, 28:19
794. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff? 10:10
795. When will the end of the world come? 10:23, 24:14
796. Should we fear God? 10:28
797. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 10:34, 26:52
798. Who was the greatest: Jesus, Solomon, or John the Baptist? 11:11, 12:42
799. Was John the Baptist Elijah? 11:13-14, 17:12-13
800. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 12:2-5
801. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 12:3-4
802. Who is for or against Jesus? 12:30
803. Is there an unforgivable sin? 12:31
804. How are people judged by God? 12:37
805. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 12:39, 16:4
806. Is anyone justified? 12:37
807. Was Jonah swallowed by a fish or a whale? 12:40
808. How should parents be treated? 12:47-48, 23:9
809. When did the transfiguration occur? 17:1
810. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 18:3, 19:14
811. Can God be seen? 18:9
812. Is marriage a good thing? 19:4-5, 19:10-12
813. What was Jesus' sixth commandment? 19:17-19
814. Is it OK to steal? 19:18
815. Is it OK to kill? 19:18
816. Is it OK to be rich? 19:23-24
817. Can God do anything? 19:26
818. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection? 20:18-19, 26:31-32
819. How much power did Jesus have? 20:23, 28:18
820. Who asked Jesus for the best seats in heaven? 20:20-21
821. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all? 20:28
822. How many blind men were healed near Jericho? 20:30
823. When was the blind man (or men) healed? 20:30
824. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 21:2-7
825. When did Jesus curse the fig tree? 21:12, 17-19
826. When did the cursed fig tree die? 21:19-20
827. Is is OK to call your father (or anyone else) father? 23:9
828. Who was Zechariah's father? 23:35
829. How long does God's anger last? 25:41, 25:46
830. When was heaven created? 25:34
831. How should strangers be treated? 25:35
832. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice? 26:34
833. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 26:34
834. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 26:39, 42
835. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 26:47-49
836. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 26:57
837. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"? 26:59-61
838. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest? 26:63-64
839. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 26:69
840. How did Judas die? 27:5
841. What did Judas do with the silver? 27:5
842. Who bought the Potter's field? 27:6-7
843. Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate? 27:12-14
844. Who put the robe on Jesus? 27:27-28
845. What color was Jesus' robe? 27:28
846. Who carried Jesus' cross? 27:32
847. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 27:34
848. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 27:37
849. Did both thieves revile Jesus? 27:44
850. What were the last words of Jesus? 27:46
851. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died? 27:54
852. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 27:55
853. Who buried Jesus? 27:57-60
854. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre? 28:1
855. How many women went to the sepulchre? 28:1
856. Who did the women see at the tomb? 28:2
857. Was the tomb open or closed? 28:2
858. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when first seen? 28:2
859. Did the women immediately tell the disciples? 28:8
860. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 28:1, 9
861. Was Mary Magdalene happy or sad when she saw the risen Jesus? 28:8-12
862. Did the Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her? 28:9
863. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus? 28:9
864. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 28:10
865. Where did Jesus first appear after the resurrection? 28:16
866. In whose name is baptism to be performed? 28:19
Mark
867. How did God address Jesus at his baptism? 1:11
868. Where did John baptize? 1:0
869. What did Jesus do after his baptism? 1:12-13
870. Which came first: the calling of Peter and Andrew or the imprisonment of John the Baptist? 1:14-17
871. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God? 1:23-24, 3:11, 5:2-7
872. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 2:25-26
873. When David fled to Nob, what was the priest's name? 2:26
874. Who were the apostles? 3:18
875. How should parents be treated? 3:32-33
876. Is there an unforgivable sin? 3:29
877. How many men were possessed with devils? 5:1-2
878. Was Jarius's daughter alive when Jesus was approached? 5:22-23
879. Did Jesus know everything? 5:30, 13:32
880. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 5:39-42
881. How much power did Jesus have? 6:5
882. Can God do anything? 6:5, 10:27
883. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff? 6:8-9
884. Has there ever been a just person? 6:20
885. What should we eat? 7:18
886. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 8:12, 16:20
887. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection? 8:31, 10:33-34, 14:28
888. When did the transfiguration occur? 9:2
889. Was John the Baptist Elijah? 9:13
890. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus? 9:38, 16:17
891. Is casting out devils a sign of a true Christian? 9:38, 16:17
892. Who is for or against Jesus? 9:40
893. Is divorce ever permissible? 10:11
894. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 10:15
895. Has there ever been a just, righteous, good or perfect person? 10:18
896. Is anyone good? 10:18
897. What was Jesus' sixth commandment? 10:18
898. To kill or not to kill 10:19
899. Is it OK to steal? 10:19
900. Who asked Jesus for the best seats in heaven? 10:35-37
901. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all? 10:45
902. How many blind men were healed near Jericho? 10:46
903. When was the blind man (or men) healed? 20:30
904. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 11:7
905. When did Jesus curse the fig tree? 11:12-17
906. When did the cursed fig tree die? 11:13-14, 20-21
907. How many gods are there? 12:29, 32
908. How should nonbelievers be treated? 12:31
909. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 12:35-37
910. When was the Holy Ghost given? 12:36
911. What must you do to be saved? 13:13
912. Will the earth last forever? 13:31
913. Was Jesus crucified the day before or the day after the Passover meal? 14:12, 15:25
914. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice? 14:30
915. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 14:35-36
916. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 14:43-45
917. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 14:57
918. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"? 14:57-58
919. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest? 14:62
920. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 14:66-72
921. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 14:66-71
922. Who put the robe on Jesus? 15:15-17
923. What color was Jesus' robe? 15:17
924. Who carried Jesus' cross? 15:21
925. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 15:23
926. When was Jesus Crucified? 15:25
927. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 15:26
928. Did both thieves revile Jesus? 15:32
929. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died? 15:39
930. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 15:40
931. Who buried Jesus? 15:43-46
932. How many women came to the sepulchre? 16:1
933. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre? 16:1-2
934. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived? 16:3-4
935. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when the women arrived? 16:5
936. Who did the women see at the tomb? 16:5
937. Were the men or angels sitting or standing? 16:5
938. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 16:7
939. Did the women immediately tell the disciples? 16:8
940. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 16:9
941. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 16:9-19
942. Did the eleven disciples believe the two men? 16:12-13
943. Where did Jesus first appear to his disciples? 16:14
944. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 16:15
945. How are people judged by God? 16:16
946. What must you do to be saved? 16:16
947. Is Salvation by faith alone? 16:16
Luke
948. Has there ever been a righteous person? 1:5-6
949. Does righteousness come from following the Law? 1:6
950. When was the Holy Ghost given? 1:15, 1:41, 67, 2:26
951. Can God do anything? 1:37, 18:27
952. When was Jesus born? 2:1
953. Where did Joseph and Mary live before the birth of Jesus? 2:1-7
954. Has there ever been a just person? 1:17, 2:25, 14:14, 15:7, 23:50
955. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 1:34, 20:41-45
956. Should we fear God? 1:50, 12:5
957. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 2:14
958. Is only God holy? 2:23
959. Did Jesus, Mary, and Joseph go to Egypt or Nazareth? 2:39
960. Is it wrong to lie? 3:14
961. How did God address Jesus at his baptism? 3:22
962. Who was Jesus' grandfather on his father's side? 3:23
963. Genealogy of Jesus (Mt.1 vs Lk.3) 3:21-31
964. Who was Zerubbabel's father? 3:27
965. From which of David's sons was Jesus descended? 3:31
966. Who was the father of Salah? 3:35-36
967. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam? 3:37-38
968. How many sons does God have? 3:38
969. Who owns the earth? 4:5-6
970. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:5-7
971. Can God be tempted? 4:12
972. Is it OK to test (or tempt) God? 4:12
973. Was David alone when asking for the holy bread at Nob? 6:3-4
974. Who were the apostles? 6:13-16
975. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 6:24-26
976. Is it good to be happy? 6:24-26
977. How should nonbelievers be treated? 6:27, 6:31, 10:27
978. How should we treat our enemies? 6:35
979. To judge or not to judge. 6:37
980. Did the Centurion ask Jesus directly to help his servant? 7:3
981. Did Jesus know everything? 7:9
982. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 7:12-15, 9:30
983. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 7:12-15, 9:30, 14:14, 20:37
984. Were the Pharisees baptized by John? 7:29-30
985. How many men were possessed with devils? 8:27-37
986. Was Jarius' daughter alive when Jesus was approached? 8:41-42
987. Did Jesus tell his apostles to go barefoot and without a staff? 9:3
988. When did the transfiguration occur? 9:28
989. Who can cast out devils in the name of Jesus? 9:49
990. Is casting out devils a sign of a true Christian? 9:49
991. Who is for or against Jesus? 9:50, 11:23
992. Did the Samaritans receive Jesus? 9:52-53
993. How should parents be treated? 9:59-60, 14:26
994. Who is the Lord of this world? 10:21
995. How are people judged by God? 10:25-26
996. Is Salvation by faith alone? 10:25-26
997. What must you do to be saved? 6:24, 6:37, 10:26, 18:18-22
998. What kind of animals may we eat? 10:8
999. Can God be found? 11:9-10, 13:24
1000. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 11:29
1001. Who was the greatest: Jesus or Solomon? 11:31
1002. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 11:40, 24:25
1003. Is there an unforgivable sin? 12:10
1004. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 12:51, 22:36
1005. Should we love or hate our brother? 14:26
1006. Must we obey Old Testament Laws? 16:16-17
1007. Is divorce ever permissible? 16:18
1008. Is it OK for a divorced woman to remarry? 16:18
1009. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 18:17
1010. What was Jesus' sixth commandment? 18:20
1011. To kill or not to kill 18:20
1012. Is it OK to steal? 18:20
1013. Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection? 18:33, 24:6-8
1014. How many blind men were healed near Jericho? 18:35
1015. When was the blind man (or men) healed? 18:35
1016. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 19:30-35
1017. Should we look for signs in the heavens? 21:11
1018. Will the earth last forever? 21:33
1019. When did Satan enter Judas? 22:3, 7
1020. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 22:41-42
1021. Did Jesus say "before the cock crow" or "before the cock crow twice?" 22:34
1022. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 22:34
1023. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 22:47-48
1024. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 22:54
1025. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 22:54-62
1026. How did Jesus respond when questioned by the high priest? 22:70
1027. Who put the robe on Jesus? 23:11
1028. Who carried Jesus' cross? 23:26
1029. Can thieves go to heaven? 23:32-43
1030. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 23:36
1031. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 23:38
1032. Did both thieves revile Jesus? 23:39-42
1033. What were the last words of Jesus? 23:46
1034. What did the Centurion call Jesus when he died? 23:47
1035. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 23:49
1036. Who buried Jesus? 23:50-53
1037. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 24:1-51
1038. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived? 24:2
1039. Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when the women arrived? 24:3-4
1040. Who did the women see at the tomb? 24:3-4
1041. Were the men or angels sitting or standing? 24:3-4
1042. Did the women immediately tell the disciples? 24:9
1043. How many women came? 24:10
1044. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 24:13-31
1045. Did the Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her? 24:23, 36
1046. Where did Jesus first appear after the resurrection? 24:33-37
1047. Did Jesus appear to ten, eleven or twelve disciples? 24:33, 36
1048. Did the eleven disciples believe the two men? 24:33-34
1049. Were the disciples frightened or gladdened when they saw Jesus? 24:37
1050. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus before his ascension? 24:39
1051. Does God have a body? 24:39
1052. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 24:49
John
1053. How many sons did God have? 1:12, 3:16, 18
1054. Can God be seen? 1:18, 6:46,
1055. Was John the Baptist Elijah? 1:21
1056. Where did John baptize? 1:28
1057. What did Jesus do after his baptism? 1:35, 1:43, 2:1,
1058. Which came first: the calling of Peter and Andrew or the imprisonment of John the Baptist? 1:40-42, 3:22-24
1059. Did Jesus say, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"? 2:19
1060. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 2:19-21
1061. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 3:2, 20:30
1062. What must you do to be saved? 3:3, 3:5, 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 5:29, 6:37, 6:53-54
1063. How are people judged by God? 3:3, 5, 3:18, 3:36, 5:29
1064. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 3:13
1065. Does God love everyone? 3:16
1066. Is Salvation by faith alone? 3:18, 3:36, 5:29
1067. Did Jesus baptize anyone? 3:22, 4:2
1068. Does God have a body? 4:24
1069. Did the Samaritans receive Jesus? 4:39-40
1070. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 5:16-17
1071. Does Jesus judge people? 5:22, 5:27, 8:15, 9:39, 12:47
1072. Is death final? 5:28-29
1073. Does anyone ever do anything good? 5:29
1074. How are people judged by God? 5:29
1075. Did Jesus bears witness of himself? 5:31, 8:14, 8:18
1076. To judge or not to judge. 7:24
1077. When was the Holy Ghost given? 7:39, 20:22
1078. How should adulterers be punished? 8:3-8
1079. Must everyone die? 8:51, 11:26
1080. Who makes people blind? 9:1-3
1081. Is it possible to fall from grace? 10:28
1082. How many gods are there? 10:33-34, 17:3
1083. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 11:39-44
1084. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 11:39-44
1085. On what did Jesus ride into Jerusalem? 12:14
1086. Did Jesus ask God to save him from crucifixion? 12:27
1087. Who is the Lord of this world? 12:31, 14:30, 16:11
1088. Does God want some to go to hell? 12:40
1089. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve? 12:40
1090. When did Satan enter Judas? 13:27
1091. Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crow twice? 13:38
1092. Did the cock crow before or after Peter's denial? 13:38
1093. When was heaven created? 14:2
1094. Who sent the Holy Ghost? 14:26, 15:26
1095. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 14:27, 16:33
1096. Did Jesus tell his disciples everything? 15:15, 16:12
1097. Did Peter ask Jesus where he was going? 13:36, 16.5
1098. Did Jesus know everything? 16:30, 21:17
1099. Did Judas identify Jesus with a kiss? 18:3-5
1100. Was Jesus taken to Caiaphas or Annas first? 18:13
1101. To whom did Peter deny knowing Jesus? 18:17-18, 18:25-27
1102. Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate? 18:33-38
1103. Who put the robe on Jesus? 19:1-2
1104. What color was Jesus' robe? 19:2
1105. When was Jesus Crucified? 19:14-16
1106. Was Jesus crucified the day before or the day after the Passover meal? 19:15
1107. Who carried Jesus' cross? 19:17
1108. What did the sign over Jesus' head say? 19:19
1109. Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand? 19:25
1110. What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink? 19:29
1111. Did Jesus drink on the cross? 19:29-30
1112. What were the last words of Jesus? 19:30
1113. Who buried Jesus? 19:38-42
1114. How many women came to the sepulchre? 20:1
1115. When did the women (or woman) arrive at the sepulchre? 20:1
1116. Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived? 20:1
1117. Did Jesus tell the apostles about his resurrection? 20:9
1118. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 20-11-14:
1119. Were the men or angels sitting or standing? John 20:11-12
1120. Was Mary Magdalene happy or sad when she saw the risen Jesus? 20:11-15
1121. Who did the women see at the tomb? 20:12
1122. Did the Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus when he first appeared to her? 20:14
1123. Where did Jesus first appear after the resurrection? 20:19
1124. Did Jesus appear to ten, eleven or twelve disciples? 20:19-24
1125. Were the disciples frightened or gladdened when they saw Jesus? 20:20
1126. Did Luke include everything that Jesus did? 21:25
1127. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 20:26
1128. Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus before his ascension? 20:17, 20:26-27
Acts
1129. Did Luke include everything that Jesus did? 1:1-2
1130. When did Jesus ascend into heaven? 1:1-2, 9, Acts 13:31
1131. Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after his resurrection? 1:4
1132. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 1:8, 8:25, 15:3, 7, 16:6, 22:21, 28:28
1133. Who were the apostles? 1:13
1134. How many believers were there at the time of the ascension? 1:15
1135. When was the Holy Ghost given? 1:16, 2:1-4
1136. How did Judas die? 1:18
1137. Who bought the potter's field? 1:18
1138. What did Judas do with the silver? 1:18
1139. Does God know everything? 1:24
1140. Does God know what is everyone's heart? 1:24
1141. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 2:21
1142. What must you do to be saved? 2:21, 16:30-31
1143. Did Jesus perform many signs and wonders? 2:22
1144. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 2:30, 13:23
1145. Who buried Jesus? 13:27-29
1146. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 2:32, 4:10, 13:30
1147. In whose name is baptism to be performed? 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5
1148. Should we obey human or divine law? 5:29
1149. How old was Abraham when he left Haran? 7:4
1150. How old was Abraham when Ishmael was born? 7:4
1151. How long was the Egyptian Captivity? 7:6
1152. How many were in Jacob's family when they came into Egypt? 7:14
1153. Where was Jacob buried? 7:15
1154. Who bought the sepulchre in Sechem from the sons of Hamor? 7:16
1155. Was Moses a good speaker? 7:22
1156. "By the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush"
Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush? 7:35
1157. Does God dwell in temples? 7:48
1158. Did the men with Paul hear the voice? 9:7, 22:9
1159. Were the men with Paul knocked to the ground? 9:7, 26:14
1160. Did Paul go to Jerusalem from Damascus immediately after his conversion? 9:26-28
1161. What kind of animals may we eat? 10:10-13
1162. Has there ever been a just person? 10:22, 24:15
1163. Does God respect anyone? 10:34
1164. Did Jesus come to bring peace? 10:36
1165. Is there an unforgivable sin? 13:39
1166. Do humans have free will? 13:48
1167. Can God be tempted? 15:10
1168. Is Salvation by faith alone? 16:30-31
1169. Who is the Lord of this world? 17:24
1170. Can women be church leaders? 18:26
1171. Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead? 26:23
1172. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 26:23
Romans
1173. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 1:3
1174. Is Salvation by faith alone? 1:16, 2:6, 2:13, 3:20, 3:28, 4:2, 4:5-6, 4:13, 5:1, 10:9
1175. Has there ever been a just person? 1:17
1176. Can God be found through reason alone? 1:20
1177. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 1:22
1178. Should we judge others? 2:1, 14:10
1179. What must you do to be saved? 2:6, 13, 5:1, 8:29-30, 9:11, 10:9
1180. Does God respect anyone? 2:11
1181. Has there ever been a righteous person? 3:10, 12, 23
1182. Should we fear God? 3:10-18
1183. Does anyone ever do anything good? 3:12
1184. Do Christians sin? 3:23
1185. What must you do to be saved? 3:28
1186. Was Abraham justified by faith or works? 4:2, 4:13
1187. Must everyone die? 5:12
1188. Who was to blame for original sin? 5:12
1189. Must Christians obey Old Testament Laws? 6:14, 7:4, 6, 10:4
1190. Do Christians know how to pray? 8:26
1191. Do humans have free will? 8:29-30, 9:11-22
1192. Is it possible to fall from grace? 8:38-29
1193. Does God love everyone? 9:13
1194. Does God want some to go to hell? 9:18
1195. Will those who call on the Lord be delivered? 10:13
1196. What will happen to Jews when they die? 11:26
1197. Is it OK to curse people? 12:14
1198. Should we obey human or divine law? 13:1-4
1199. Is it wrong to covet? 13:9
1200. How should nonbelievers be treated? 13:9
1201. What kind of animals may we eat? 14:2, 14:14, 14:21
1202. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 14:5
1203. Should we try to please others? 15:2
1204. Is God warlike or peaceful? 15:33
1205. Can women be church leaders? 16:1, 16:7
1 Corinthians
1206. Is wisdom a good thing? 1:19
1207. Is it good to be foolish? 1:21, 3:18-19, 4:10
1208. Is God the author of confusion? 1:27
1209. To judge or not to judge. 2:15, 5:3, 5:12-13, 6:2-3
1210. Can thieves go to heaven? 6:9
1211. Is marriage a good thing? 7:1, 7:7, 7:27
1212. Is all Scripture inspired by God? 7:12
1213. Is it OK to marry unbelievers? 7:12-14
1214. Is divorce ever permissible? 7:15, 7:25
1215. How many gods are there? 8:6
1216. Did Paul see Jesus? 9:1, 15:8
1217. What kind of animals may we eat? 10:25
1218. Who owns the earth? 10:26
1219. How many did God kill for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab"? 10:8
1220. Should we try to please others? 10:33
1221. Is it OK for men to have long hair? 11:14
1222. Is it OK to covet? 12:31, 14:39
1223. Should we believe everything? 13:7
1224. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 13:11, 14:20
1225. Is God the author of confusion? 14:33
1226. Is God warlike or peaceful? 14:33
1227. Can women be church leaders? 14:34-35
1228. Did Jesus appear to the ten, eleven or the twelve? 15:5
1229. How many believers were there at the time of the ascension? 15:6
1230. To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? 15:5
1231. What must you do to be saved? 15:29
1232. Is there to be a resurrection from the dead? 15:14, 15:52
1233. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 15:36
1234. Is it OK to curse people? 16:22
1235. How should we treat our enemies? 16:22
2 Corinthians
1236. Is God Merciful? 1:3
1237. Must Christians obey the Old Testament's laws? 3:14
1238. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve? 4:3-4
1239. Who is the Lord of this world? 4:4
1240. Is Salvation by faith alone? 5:10, 11:15
1241. Does Jesus judge people? 5:10
1242. What must you do to be saved? 5:10, 11:15
1243. Does anyone ever do anything good? 5:10
1244. What's new? 5:17
1245. How should nonbelievers be treated? 6:14-17
1246. Is it OK to marry unbelievers? 6:14-17
1247. Should we fear God? 7:1
Galatians
1248. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 1:1
1249. Should we try to please others? 1:10
1250. Did Paul go to Jerusalem from Damascus immediately after his conversion? 1:16-17
1251. "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."
Did Paul visit all of the disciples when he went to Jerusalem after his conversion? 1:18-19
1252. Should the gospel be preached to everyone? 2:2
1253. Does God respect anyone? 2:6
1254. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:16, 3:11-12
1255. What must you do to be saved? 2:16
1256. Does righteousness come from following the Law? 2:21
1257. Is it OK to call someone a fool? 3:1
1258. Are those who obey the law cursed? 3:10
1259. Has there ever been a just person? 3:11
1260. Must Christians obey the Old Testament's laws? 3:13, 3:24
1261. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 3:16
1262. How many sons did Abraham have? 4:22
1263. Is circumcision required? 5:2
1264. Is it possible to fall from grace? 5:4
1265. How should nonbelievers be treated? 5:14
1266. Do Christians need to follow Old Testament laws? 5:18
1267. Should we bear each other's burdens? 6:2, 5
Ephesians
1268. Do humans have free will? 1:4-5, 2:8
1269. What must you do to be saved? 1:4-5
1270. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:8-9
1271. Must we obey Old Testament Laws? 2:15
1272. Is it a a good thing to be childish? 4:14
1273. Is it wrong to lie? 4:25
1274. Is it wrong to steal? 4:28
1275. Is it OK to covet? 5:3
1276. Is it good to be foolish? 5:15
1277. Should we fear God? 5:21
1278. How should parents be treated? 6:2
1279. Should you serve God alone? 6:5
1280. Does God respect anyone? 6:9
Philippians
1281. Is salvation by faith alone? 2:12
Colossians
1282. Can God be seen? 1:15
1283. Did Jesus know everything? 2:2-3
1284. Who was the greatest: Jesus or Solomon? 2:2-3
1285. Is circumcision required? 2:10-11
1286. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 2:12
1287. Must Christians obey the Old Testament's laws? 2:14
1288. Is it necessary to keep the Sabbath? 2:16
1289. Is it okay to covet? 3:5
1290. Is it okay to lie? 3:9
1291. Should you serve God alone? 3:18, 3:20, 3:22
1292. Should we fear God? 3:2
1293. Does God respect anyone? 3:25
1 Thessalonians
1294. Who raised Jesus from the dead? 1:10
1295. Is it wrong to steal? 4:6
1296. Is the day of the Lord at hand? 4:17, 5:23
1297. Should we believe everything? 5:21
2 Thessalonians
1298. Is the day of the Lord at hand? 2:2-3
1299. Who forces non-believers to disbelieve? 2:2-3
1300. Can only God work wonders? 2:9
1301. Does God ever lie? 2:11
1302. Do humans have free will? 2:11-12, 13
1303. Does God want some to go to hell? 2:11-12
1304. Is God warlike or peaceful? 3:16
1 Timothy
1305. Does God approve of slavery? 1:9-10
1306. Can God be seen? 1:17, 6:16
1307. Does God want some to go to hell? 2:4
1308. Was Jesus a ransom for many or for all? 2:6
1309. Should Christians pray in public? 2:8
1310. Can women be church leaders? 2:11-12
1311. What must you do to be saved? 2:14-15
1312. Must everyone die? 2:14
1313. Is childbearing sinful? 2:15
1314. Is marriage a good thing? 4:1-3
1315. What should we eat? 4:1-4
1316. Should Christians be concerned with material things? 5:8
1317. Should you serve God alone? 6:1
1318. Is money good or bad? 6:10
1319. Was Jesus silent during his trial? 6:13
1320. Does God dwell in darkness or in light? 6:16
2 Timothy
1321. Should we fear God? 1:7
1322. Do humans have free will? 1:9
1323. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 2:8
1324. Can the devil capture us at will? 2:26
1325. If God likes you, will everyone else like you too? 3:12
1326. Is all Scripture inspired by God? 3:16
Titus
1327. Does God ever lie? 1:2
1328. Should you serve God alone? 2:9
1329. Is Salvation by faith alone? 3:5
1330. What must you do to be saved? 3:5
Hebrews
1331. Will the earth last forever? 1:11
1332. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 2:16
1333. Is it possible to fall from grace? 6:4-6
1334. Can God do anything? 6:18
1335. Does God ever lie? 6:18
1336. Is everyone descended from Adam and Eve? 7:3
1337. Is the law of God perfect? 8:6-7
1338. What was in the Ark of the Covenant? 9:4
1339. Must everyone die? 9:27, 11:5
1340. Does God desire animal sacrifices? 10:4, 10:11
1341. Should we fear God? 10:31
1342. Has there ever been a just person? 10:38
1343. Has there ever been a righteous person? 11:4
1344. Has anyone ever ascended into heaven? 11:5
1345. Did Sarah have faith that she would conceive? 11:11
1346. How many sons did Abraham have? 11:17
1347. Did Moses fear the king? 11:27
1348. Was Rahab saved by faith or works? 11:31
1349. Do bad things happen to good people? 12:6
1350. Is marriage a good thing? 13:4
1351. Is it wrong to commit adultery? 13:4
1352. Is God warlike or peaceful? 13:20
James
1353. Can God be tempted? 1:13
1354. Has God ever tempted anyone? 1:13
1355. Does God repent? 1:17
1356. How should nonbelievers be treated? 2:8
1357. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:14, 2:17, 2:20, 2:24-26
1358. What must you do to be saved? 2:17, 5:1
1359. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God? 2:19
1360. Was Abraham justified by faith or works? 2:21
1361. Is it wrong to lie? 2:25
1362. Was Rahab saved by faith or works? 2:25
1363. Can the devil capture us at will? 4:7
1364. To judge or not to judge 4:12
1365. Is wealth a sign of righteousness or of wickedness? 5:1
1366. Has there ever been a just person? 5:6
1367. Is God merciful? 5:11
1368. Is it OK to take oaths? 5:12
1369. Has there ever been a righteous person? 5:16
1 Peter
1370. Does God respect anyone? 1:17
1371. Is Salvation by faith alone? 1:17
1372. What must you do to be saved? 1:17
1373. Should we let others see our good works? 2:12
1374. Should we obey human or divine law? 2:13
1375. Should we fear God? 2:17
1376. Should you serve God alone? 2:18
1377. Do bad things happen to good people? 3:13
1378. Are we punished for the sins of others? 3:18
1379. Is the devil tied up or free to roam? 5:8
2 Peter
1380. Is the devil tied up or free to roam? 2:4
1381. Has there ever been a just person? 2:5, 2:7-8
1382. Was Lot a righteous man? 2:7-8
1383. Has there ever been a righteous person? 2:5, 2:7-8
1384. Has there ever been a just person? 2:7
1385. Is it possible to fall from grace? 2:20-21
1386. Does God want some to go to hell? 3:9
1387. Will the earth last forever? 3:10, 3:13
1388. What's new? 3:13
1 John
1389. Is anyone without sin? 1:8, 10, 3:6, 9
1390. Has there ever been a just, righteous, good or perfect person? 1:8, 10, 3:6, 9, 5:18
1391. Is it OK to call someone father? 2:13-14
1392. Are those who believe Jesus is the Christ of God? 4:2, 4:15, 5:1
1393. What must you do to be saved? 4:7
1394. Should we love or hate our brother? 3:15, 4:20-21
1395. Should we fear God? 4:8, 4:18
1396. Does God love everyone? 4:8, 16
1397. Is God the creator of evil? 4:8
1398. How many sons did God have? 4:9
1399. Can God be seen? 4:12
1400. How many gods are there? 5:7
3 John
1401. Do Christians sin? 11
1402. Does anyone ever do anything good? 11
Jude
1403. Do humans have free will? 1:4
1404. Is the devil free to roam? 1:6
1405. Was Enoch the sixth or the seventh from Adam? 14
Revelation
1406. Is Salvation by faith alone? 2:23, 20:12-13, 22:14
1407. What must you do to be saved? 2:23, 14:3-4,, 14:12, 20:12-13, 22:14
1408. What were the 12 tribes of Israel? 7:6
1409. Is it OK to take oaths? 10:5-6
1410. Is God's will always done in heaven? 12:7
1411. Should we fear God? 14:7, 15:4
1412. Is only God holy? 15:4
1413. Can God do anything? 19:6
1414. Is Jesus peaceful? 19:11
1415. Does Jesus judge others? 19:11
1416. Is death final? 20:12-13
1417. What's new? 21:1
1418. Will the earth last forever? 21:1
1419. Is it wrong to lie? 21:8, 21:27
1420. Was Joseph the father of Jesus? 22:16[/spoiler:2aldd1zm]
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Sophus on December 12, 2008, 08:29:45 PM
Post by: Sophus on December 12, 2008, 08:29:45 PM
Nicely done Curio. Perspective, I'll expect an answer to each question on your next post ;)
Of all the countless contradictions we really only need to boil it down to one:
He's omnipotent
Omniscient
All Loving
One of them has to be sacrificed in order for the God equation to function.
Of all the countless contradictions we really only need to boil it down to one:
He's omnipotent
Omniscient
All Loving
One of them has to be sacrificed in order for the God equation to function.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: perspective on December 12, 2008, 08:35:38 PM
Post by: perspective on December 12, 2008, 08:35:38 PM
UHmmm. that was quick. This may take awhile....
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Martian on December 12, 2008, 08:36:48 PM
Post by: Martian on December 12, 2008, 08:36:48 PM
Quote from: "Sophus"Of all the countless contradictions we really only need to boil it down to one:My thoughts exactly.
He's omnipotent
Omniscient
All Loving
One of them has to be sacrificed in order for the God equation to function.
Additionally, why can't he just show himself and tell us what he wants from his own mouth? It's not that hard, especially for an omnipotent being.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:39:09 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: "perspective"UHmmm. that was quick. This may take awhile....
Told ya.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: perspective on December 12, 2008, 08:55:08 PM
Post by: perspective on December 12, 2008, 08:55:08 PM
Ahhh sneaky, sneaky, 
We should also point out that on that website alot of these "contradictions" are addressed already. While the list is impressive I think it falls short. Find me a contradiction that has not already been addressed and then I will gladly spent time in research to find answers.
We should also point out that on that website alot of these "contradictions" are addressed already. While the list is impressive I think it falls short. Find me a contradiction that has not already been addressed and then I will gladly spent time in research to find answers.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:58:37 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 12, 2008, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: "perspective"Ahhh sneaky, sneaky, ;)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Sophus on December 12, 2008, 09:02:18 PM
Post by: Sophus on December 12, 2008, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: "Martian"Additionally, why can't he just show himself and tell us what he wants from his own mouth? It's not that hard, especially for an omnipotent being.Exactly. That reminds me of something I posted in a debate with Titan. It fizzled out as he could stay plugged into the forum so I never got a response:
QuoteLook at it this way: If I have a nephew and wish to reward him for choosing to love me, but decide not to provide him with certain, 100%, absolute proof that I even exist... then I am crazy! I leave it up to my brother (his father) to argue my existence. Meanwhile his mother says "No, no, no you don't have an uncle." His choice in not believing in me would not be his error, it is my mistake for being absurd.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: dodgecity on December 12, 2008, 09:08:22 PM
Post by: dodgecity on December 12, 2008, 09:08:22 PM
I would just like to remind you that there's a difference between addressing a contradiction and refuting a contradiction.
I would also like to point out that there many of works of fiction that have no contradictions within themselves. Non contradiction is a requirement of accuracy, but in itself it has absolutely no bearing on the veracity of the claims therein.
I would also like to point out that there many of works of fiction that have no contradictions within themselves. Non contradiction is a requirement of accuracy, but in itself it has absolutely no bearing on the veracity of the claims therein.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: MariaEvri on December 15, 2008, 04:52:52 PM
Post by: MariaEvri on December 15, 2008, 04:52:52 PM
nice link, curio...
I'd like to see the answers
I'd like to see the answers
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BadPoison on December 16, 2008, 04:53:24 AM
Post by: BadPoison on December 16, 2008, 04:53:24 AM
Quote from: "perspective"Ahhh sneaky, sneaky, :brick:Quote from: "dodgecity"I would just like to remind you that there's a difference between addressing a contradiction and refuting a contradiction.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Sophus on December 17, 2008, 04:13:23 AM
Post by: Sophus on December 17, 2008, 04:13:23 AM
I doubt any of the explanations would be anything really new. They would all point to a select few number of reasons Christians have had engraved into their brains as auto responses in debate against us. For example they could answer every single contradiction with:
"If there is a God then he would be far beyond our understanding and we must trust in his knowledge even when things don't make sense."
Drives me nuts
"If there is a God then he would be far beyond our understanding and we must trust in his knowledge even when things don't make sense."
Drives me nuts
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on December 17, 2008, 04:44:30 AM
Post by: McQ on December 17, 2008, 04:44:30 AM
Quote from: "Sophus"I doubt any of the explanations would be anything really new. They would all point to a select few number of reasons Christians have had engraved into their brains as auto responses in debate against us. For example they could answer every single contradiction with:
"If there is a God then he would be far beyond our understanding and we must trust in his knowledge even when things don't make sense."
Drives me nuts
Man, are you ever right on with this! No matter what the debate is about, the final trump card for christians is what you just posted. And then it usually goes beyond that to how arrogant atheists are to even begin to think we could challenge god's knowledge.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BadPoison on December 17, 2008, 04:53:07 AM
Post by: BadPoison on December 17, 2008, 04:53:07 AM
Quote from: "McQ"Right - it's so incredibly frustrating! But couldn't the argument be made, that if God did create us, and God is also truth, shouldn't questioning him with the reason he himself gave us only lead us back to him? Yet, it doesn't - so isn't this the ultimate demonstration of how God must be bogus? Or at least how all of the religions' understanding of him/her/it entirely flawed?Quote from: "Sophus"I doubt any of the explanations would be anything really new. They would all point to a select few number of reasons Christians have had engraved into their brains as auto responses in debate against us. For example they could answer every single contradiction with:
"If there is a God then he would be far beyond our understanding and we must trust in his knowledge even when things don't make sense."
Drives me nuts
Man, are you ever right on with this! No matter what the debate is about, the final trump card for christians is what you just posted. And then it usually goes beyond that to how arrogant atheists are to even begin to think we could challenge god's knowledge.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: MariaEvri on December 17, 2008, 02:30:22 PM
Post by: MariaEvri on December 17, 2008, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: "Sophus"I doubt any of the explanations would be anything really new.
which we're still waiting for, btw...
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: chuff on December 18, 2008, 02:35:07 AM
Post by: chuff on December 18, 2008, 02:35:07 AM
Quote from: "BadPoison"Quote from: "McQ"Right - it's so incredibly frustrating! But couldn't the argument be made, that if God did create us, and God is also truth, shouldn't questioning him with the reason he himself gave us only lead us back to him? Yet, it doesn't - so isn't this the ultimate demonstration of how God must be bogus? Or at least how all of the religions' understanding of him/her/it entirely flawed?Quote from: "Sophus"I doubt any of the explanations would be anything really new. They would all point to a select few number of reasons Christians have had engraved into their brains as auto responses in debate against us. For example they could answer every single contradiction with:
"If there is a God then he would be far beyond our understanding and we must trust in his knowledge even when things don't make sense."
Drives me nuts
Man, are you ever right on with this! No matter what the debate is about, the final trump card for christians is what you just posted. And then it usually goes beyond that to how arrogant atheists are to even begin to think we could challenge god's knowledge.
I think one of the cruelest things about the idea of god is that he supposedly created all of us with corrupted reason.
So the method he gave us to come to correct conclusions and verify evidence (and convict criminals, and make decisions, and solve problems, and innovate) is flawed. And it's supposed to be a gift from him.
And supposedly the only time it doesn't work right is when we try to find out whether god exists or not.. hmm..
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BadPoison on December 19, 2008, 10:37:59 PM
Post by: BadPoison on December 19, 2008, 10:37:59 PM
Right, I don't know what else to say about this.
Did Perspective leave our humble forum? So much for him addressing any contradictions.
Did Perspective leave our humble forum? So much for him addressing any contradictions.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 19, 2008, 10:49:09 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 19, 2008, 10:49:09 PM
Quote from: "BadPoison"Right, I don't know what else to say about this.
Did Perspective leave our humble forum? So much for him addressing any contradictions.
Well, staring at over 1,400 contradictions is rather... daunting.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 12:41:00 AM
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 12:41:00 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Well remember, the Bible is claiming to be the truth weather you believe it or not. So since the scripture declares as a matter of fact that God exist, technically it then really does become foolish to deny His existence.
Though I believe that certain events in the bible happened from historic point of view I cannot believe that a God who is so powerful would delibertely allow so many inconsistencies and contradictions (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html) to be carried through the generations since the bible was written, without the need to rectify them.
After all its not as if he would have trouble doing so.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 07, 2009, 01:10:34 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 07, 2009, 01:10:34 AM
Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Well remember, the Bible is claiming to be the truth weather you believe it or not. So since the scripture declares as a matter of fact that God exist, technically it then really does become foolish to deny His existence.
Though I believe that certain events in the bible happened from historic point of view I cannot believe that a God who is so powerful would delibertely allow so many inconsistencies and contradictions (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html) to be carried through the generations since the bible was written, without the need to rectify them. :idea:
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 04:29:09 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 04:29:09 AM
Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Well remember, the Bible is claiming to be the truth weather you believe it or not. So since the scripture declares as a matter of fact that God exist, technically it then really does become foolish to deny His existence.
Though I believe that certain events in the bible happened from historic point of view I cannot believe that a God who is so powerful would delibertely allow so many inconsistencies and contradictions (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html) to be carried through the generations since the bible was written, without the need to rectify them. ;)QuoteGE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)
GE 1:28 is before the fall of man, LE 12:1-8 is after the fall of man. This is actually a Bible fundamental.QuoteGE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)
Again, before the fall of man and then after the fall of man. Last note actually implies that since God is omniscient he would predict the bad and stop it before it happens or that He would not be displeased since he saw it coming. Another fundamental in the Bible is that God wants his creation to choose him not just serve him out of fear. Thats why He still created Lucifer/Satin, Humans, and a the third of the Angles that followed Satin. More philosophical then anything else but you get the point. If He wanted robot love, He would of created robots:) Can you feel the love! (or is that tin?).
This can get tedious
If you want, you can select your favorites?
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: karadan on April 07, 2009, 09:53:39 AM
Post by: karadan on April 07, 2009, 09:53:39 AM
What? Wait.. So there are NO inconsistencies and contradictions in the bible then?
None at all?
Welcome to the forum by the way
None at all?
Welcome to the forum by the way
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: joeactor on April 07, 2009, 03:50:55 PM
Post by: joeactor on April 07, 2009, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: "karadan"What? Wait.. So there are NO inconsistencies and contradictions in the bible then?
None at all?
Nope. None. Nada.
You're forgetting that god is included in all answers:
[attachment=0:3syv3ifd]ThenAMiracleOccurs.gif[/attachment:3syv3ifd]
In my opinion, as long as it is allowed to invoke god, all answers become very simple... and very meaningless.
For every question or inconsistency you bring up, a true believer will find a way to make the data fit the theory.
... which can be difficult if you really want answers.
2 cents,
JoeActor
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 05:32:18 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: "joeactor"Quote from: "karadan"What? Wait.. So there are NO inconsistencies and contradictions in the bible then?
None at all?
Nope. None. Nada.
You're forgetting that god is included in all answers:
[attachment=0:1krrpuio]ThenAMiracleOccurs.gif[/attachment:1krrpuio]
In my opinion, as long as it is allowed to invoke god, all answers become very simple... and very meaningless.
For every question or inconsistency you bring up, a true believer will find a way to make the data fit the theory.
... which can be difficult if you really want answers.
2 cents,
JoeActor
Hey Joe!
I know what your getting at. But weather you know it or not, thats a "damned if you do or damned if you don't" mentality when it comes to the Bible that I often see. With that mentality, the theory is that you can make any peace of literature "infallible." But if you bring any other peace of literature , especially when it comes to religion to focus, it will fail the test. For example, the Quran on a science front:
Till, when he [the traveller Zul-qarnain] reached
the setting-place of the sun,
he found it going down into a muddy spring, ...
-- Sura Sura 18:86
And from a historical point its not a reliable document at all.
Now if I was forced in a situation to defend the Quran, does not matter what I say, its hard to put that in the context of the entire Quran and justify what it is saying, even if you try to put a philosophical spin on it.
If something is flawed, this is the type of info you would expect in it. As it stands, I have not seen anything like this in the Bible. Everything can be explained in its context perfectly.
Also another point when it comes to the Bible. Yes there is a lot of wisdom in scripture verses. but for some reason when it comes to the Bible, "context" goes out of the window. In fact, this is part of the reason why there is so many different denominations. They build theologies on verses taken out context instead of translating them in context to the rest of scripture.
Anyway, on my break:) So I have to cut it short! Just my 2 cents!
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Whitney on April 07, 2009, 06:40:27 PM
Post by: Whitney on April 07, 2009, 06:40:27 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Till, when he [the traveller Zul-qarnain] reached
the setting-place of the sun,
he found it going down into a muddy spring, ...
-- Sura Sura 18:86
Now, I'm not one to defend the Quran. However, is it possible that this verse, in context, was not meant to be taken litterally? It sounds rather poetic.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 06:51:59 PM
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 06:51:59 PM
QuoteI know what your getting at. But weather you know it or not, thats a "damned if you do or damned if you don't" mentality when it comes to the Bible that I often see. With that mentality, the theory is that you can make any peace of literature "infallible." But if you bring any other peace of literature , especially when it comes to religion to focus, it will fail the test. For example, the Quran on a science front:
Till, when he [the traveller Zul-qarnain] reached
the setting-place of the sun,
he found it going down into a muddy spring, ...
-- Sura Sura 18:86
And from a historical point its not a reliable document at all
From my point of view on a quick glance that verse just looks like someone saw a reflection of the sunset in a pool of dirty water ... but described in a more poetic way, it probably means something else to others.
Thats my point.
The jist I am getting from your argument though is that the Bible is a matter of opinion (yours or someone elses), he (god) meant this or what he really meant was that.
Why is it all so ambiguous
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hollownucleus on April 07, 2009, 08:16:08 PM
Post by: Hollownucleus on April 07, 2009, 08:16:08 PM
Rather then wait for a recycled explanation of contradictions from Man-of-God and perspective I went right to one of the popular websites http://christiananswers.net
They have quite a few topics listed there "explaining" away the contradictions. I chose one that is pretty important to me:
Why does God allow innocent people to suffer? http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t023.html
It was pretty much a waste of time reading.
They even bring up the whole argument of if he is all loving he must not be powerful enough to stop evil people from hurting others and if he is all powerful he must not love people enough to keep them from suffering. However they answer that problem by saying God is all knowing and should not be questioned.
So while I try to give people the benefit of the doubt I don't think any argument Man-of-God or Perspective could come up with to defend contradictions in the bible or with God could change my mind as long as you fall back on the tried and failed "because he is God" or "take it on faith" arguments.
But I look forward to being proven wrong.
They have quite a few topics listed there "explaining" away the contradictions. I chose one that is pretty important to me:
Why does God allow innocent people to suffer? http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t023.html
It was pretty much a waste of time reading.
They even bring up the whole argument of if he is all loving he must not be powerful enough to stop evil people from hurting others and if he is all powerful he must not love people enough to keep them from suffering. However they answer that problem by saying God is all knowing and should not be questioned.
So while I try to give people the benefit of the doubt I don't think any argument Man-of-God or Perspective could come up with to defend contradictions in the bible or with God could change my mind as long as you fall back on the tried and failed "because he is God" or "take it on faith" arguments.
But I look forward to being proven wrong.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: joeactor on April 07, 2009, 08:51:23 PM
Post by: joeactor on April 07, 2009, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"I know what your getting at. But weather you know it or not, thats a "damned if you do or damned if you don't" mentality when it comes to the Bible that I often see. With that mentality, the theory is that you can make any peace of literature "infallible." But if you bring any other peace of literature , especially when it comes to religion to focus, it will fail the test. For example, the Quran on a science front:
Till, when he [the traveller Zul-qarnain] reached
the setting-place of the sun,
he found it going down into a muddy spring, ...
-- Sura Sura 18:86
Thanks for the response ManOfGod.
But I think you'll find that any group of religous believers will defend their holy book by coming up with "logic" to support the belief:
http://www.muslimhope.com/ZulQarnain.htm (http://www.muslimhope.com/ZulQarnain.htm)
The interesting thing is that if you google for the "Muddy Spring" problem with the quran, you get a load of pages defending the quote...
And the same thing is true if you look for the bible's error in the value of Pi=3.
When you start with a conclusion (my holy book is always right), add in god and a bit of human intelligence, I have little doube that believers can come up with excuses, ahem, er... reasons to fit any given problem.
Pi is not equal to three. And the bible is incorrect or misleading about a great many things. Possibly even the existence of Jesus.
The real question is why aren't any of god's books accurate? Is he trying to be misleading? Or maybe it's like in math class, when the teacher is giving you hints to lead you in the right direction? ("uh, you might try 3 for pi..."). You'd think if god intended us to follow in his path, the books he inspires would have clear messages. (do not kill... except those women and children over there... uh, 'cause I told you too, so that makes it ok...)
It's much easier for me to accept faith as a concept if people don't try to prove it.
If you could prove it, faith would not be needed.
I'll be the first to admit that my faith in a higher power is not based in empirical evidence or logic.
In my opinion there are many times when god is not the answer... he's just an excuse.
Rambling forward,
JoeActor
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 09:43:42 PM
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 09:43:42 PM
Quote from: "joeactor"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"The real question is why aren't any of god's books accurate? Is he trying to be misleading? Or maybe it's like in math class, when the teacher is giving you hints to lead you in the right direction? ("uh, you might try 3 for pi..."). You'd think if god intended us to follow in his path, the books he inspires would have clear messages. (do not kill... except those women and children over there... uh, 'cause I told you too, so that makes it ok...)
It's much easier for me to accept faith as a concept if people don't try to prove it.
If you could prove it, faith would not be needed.
I'll be the first to admit that my faith in a higher power is not based in empirical evidence or logic.
In my opinion there are many times when god is not the answer... he's just an excuse.
Rambling forward,
JoeActor
Thats the point I was trying to make "Exactly" JoeActor you just put it much more eliquo.. eliquin... eliqueen ... :D
[youtube:ewrr3hqf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWqgD7lGneU[/youtube:ewrr3hqf]
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 10:14:16 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 10:14:16 PM
Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"QuoteI know what your getting at. But weather you know it or not, thats a "damned if you do or damned if you don't" mentality when it comes to the Bible that I often see. With that mentality, the theory is that you can make any peace of literature "infallible." But if you bring any other peace of literature , especially when it comes to religion to focus, it will fail the test. For example, the Quran on a science front:
Till, when he [the traveller Zul-qarnain] reached
the setting-place of the sun,
he found it going down into a muddy spring, ...
-- Sura Sura 18:86
And from a historical point its not a reliable document at all
From my point of view on a quick glance that verse just looks like someone saw a reflection of the sunset in a pool of dirty water ... but described in a more poetic way, it probably means something else to others.
Thats my point.
The jist I am getting from your argument though is that the Bible is a matter of opinion (yours or someone elses), he (god) meant this or what he really meant was that.
Why is it all so ambiguous
Again, you can find ambiguity in allot of statements taken out of context from all types of sources. In context tells a different story. Anyway, the items I picked out from the list weren't ambiguous that I could see, in context.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 10:22:44 PM
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 07, 2009, 10:22:44 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"QuoteWhy is it all so ambiguous :raised: that my point
The bible is absolutely D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y not something that is or could be construed as "In Context"
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 11:57:03 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 07, 2009, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"The bible is absolutely D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y not something that is or could be construed as "In Context"
Not sure what you mean, could you elaborate?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 12:20:10 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 12:20:10 AM
Possibly that the context in which the Bible was written is so far removed from modern (or, dare I say, postmodern) life that to say the Bible makes sense "in context" is, in and of itself, illogical.
The Bible is, plain and simply, anachronistic.
The Bible is, plain and simply, anachronistic.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 01:03:42 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: "joeactor"Thanks for the response ManOfGod.
But I think you'll find that any group of religous believers will defend their holy book by coming up with "logic" to support the belief:
http://www.muslimhope.com/ZulQarnain.htm (http://www.muslimhope.com/ZulQarnain.htm)
The interesting thing is that if you google for the "Muddy Spring" problem with the quran, you get a load of pages defending the quote...
And the same thing is true if you look for the bible's error in the value of Pi=3.
Joe, thanks for being candid,
You can pretty much Google anything under the sun and find alternative views. In http://www.muslimhope.com/ZulQarnain.htm (http://www.muslimhope.com/ZulQarnain.htm) there is about 8 different theories for just one verse. But as of yet, there is nothing even with in the Muslim community that is conclusive on what the verse means, weather you look at it philosophically or scientifically.
However, In my rebuttal to the Bible contradictions link, I was pointing out the obvious fact that the author of that site didn't really think twice about what he was writing. Its like me writing a book review on a few paragraphs taking out of context instead of understanding the whole book first.
QuoteWhen you start with a conclusion (my holy book is always right), add in god and a bit of human intelligence, I have little doube that believers can come up with excuses, ahem, er... reasons to fit any given problem.
Yet if the Bible is true, this is also the exact behavior you would expect to see. See why this is a cop out? It is not logical to disregard something just on the premise "that a believer can find an excuse for anything in the Bible" Since the Bible is believed to be infallible, there is no evidence your willing to accept as conclusive. Do you see your error? Its like the cartoons where they put the carrot on front of the horse and the Horse keeps running but never gets the Carrot. The logical step is to either come up w/ a better explanation or accept the explanation that was given as the most logical explanation.
QuotePi is not equal to three. And the bible is incorrect or misleading about a great many things. Possibly even the existence of Jesus.
I hears so many variations of this argument. Jesus did not exist, Jesus existed but as a humanitarian, Jesus never died, Jesus died but never resurrected, Jesus Got married and moved to France. None of them are conclusive. Ill just give the historical document the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, so far it hasn't been wrong.
QuoteThe real question is why aren't any of god's books accurate? Is he trying to be misleading? Or maybe it's like in math class, when the teacher is giving you hints to lead you in the right direction? ("uh, you might try 3 for pi..."). You'd think if god intended us to follow in his path, the books he inspires would have clear messages. (do not kill... except those women and children over there... uh, 'cause I told you too, so that makes it ok...)
This is interesting. The message seems clear to me. What is not clear about it to you?
QuoteIt's much easier for me to accept faith as a concept if people don't try to prove it.
If you could prove it, faith would not be needed.
I'll be the first to admit that my faith in a higher power is not based in empirical evidence or logic.
In my opinion there are many times when god is not the answer... he's just an excuse.
Rambling forward,
JoeActor
If thats what you think faith should be then thats what you think. To me, I need logic and evidence. Without it I would never have come to know about Christ, I would still be Atheist. Do not get me wrong, there is a lot of things in the Bible that require faith, but theres enough logic inside and outside the Bible to allow me to accept the faith part of the Bible. Anyway thanks for indulging me
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 01:09:32 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 01:09:32 AM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Possibly that the context in which the Bible was written is so far removed from modern (or, dare I say, postmodern) life that to say the Bible makes sense "in context" is, in and of itself, illogical.
The Bible is, plain and simply, anachronistic.
Do you have an example?
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 08, 2009, 01:20:37 AM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 08, 2009, 01:20:37 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"The logical step is to either come up w/ a better explanation or accept the explanation that was given as the most logical explanation.
There is a more logical explanation. Evolution by natural selection and abiogenesis.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 01:21:00 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 01:21:00 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Do you have an example?...no offense, but... have you read it?
Check out A.J. Jacobs' The Year of Living Biblically (http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp?id=live). Using the Bible as a guide to life is, by definition, anachronistic. Hence, out of context. It is simply incompatible with contemporary Western life.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 02:02:22 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 02:02:22 AM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"The logical step is to either come up w/ a better explanation or accept the explanation that was given as the most logical explanation.
There is a more logical explanation. Evolution by natural selection and abiogenesis.
Oh no, not the Evolution vs Creation debate. I refuse to go down that road. I admit that I am a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) now. Before I was an evolutionist. I learned it in Catholic school growing up, in elementary school , high school, college, PBS, History Channel, Discovery Channel, Movies, national geographic. You name it. I was indoctrinated. How could it be wrong? When I converted to Christianity, it definitely was not because of Creationism. Eventually, after researching YEC like I did Christianity, I finally came to accept it fully from a spiritual and scientific point of view. So if I did not believe it as a Christian, I definitely do not expect to convince you as an Atheist. We both know that each side uses the same evidence, but interprets different. Evidence: Grand Canyon:
World view:
uniformitarians says a creek created it
YEC says a flood created it.
Can I convince you of YEC? answer most likely is no, why? since you do not believe the Bible to begin with, why would you believe its claims about the origins of the earth? Its a dead end discussion in my opinion. There are Christians that cannot even let go of this concept of evolution because it is so ingrained in their head. So ill think Ill pass.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 02:18:50 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 02:18:50 AM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Do you have an example?...no offense, but... have you read it? :) Fortunately, the Bible does not request that we wear sandals outside of the beach. BTW heres some food for thought, majority of people did not believe in the Judeo/Christian GOD when the Bible was written:) So your way of life may be more anachronistic then you will ever know.
BTW, I still want an example that stands out for you
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 08:45:50 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 08:45:50 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Chapter 1 is outside the Garden, Chapter 2 is inside the Garden.
There were people created separately, and outside of the Garden of Eden that are not descendants of Adam and Eve? What is your biblical support for this assertion? Who was created separate, and outside of the Garden of Eden? What was their relationship to god?
This would seem to have massive theological implications, which would almost certainly be support for racism, so I find it incredibly strange that I've never heard this before.
QuoteOh no, not the Evolution vs Creation debate. I refuse to go down that road. I admit that I am a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) now.
This should really be followed by an apology. :confused:
One isn't suppose to accept conclusions before they have reason and evidence to do so, that is known as "begging the question", and is an informal logical fallacy. It makes no logical sense to accept a conclusion before it has been demonstrated.
QuoteIts a dead end discussion in my opinion. There are Christians that cannot even let go of this concept of evolution because it is so ingrained in their head. So ill think Ill pass.
YEC is simply disproved. Any person with even a rudimentary understanding of the sciences knows this. To put it bluntly, anyone who doesn't accept that evolution at least occurred -- whether they agree that Darwinism can explain it all, or not is a different story -- is either ignorant or dishonest.
Even the major ID architects, including the only scientist among them, Michael Behe, do not deny that evolution occurred. They merely disagree that Darwinism is apt to explain it all.
We've mapped the human genome. We can demonstrate genealogy between species in the exact same sense that paternity tests demonstrate genealogy between fathers and their offspring for the courts. Even if we completely lacked a fossil record, the DNA evidence is completely overwhelming. Though we do have the fossil record, and it matches exactly with what genetics tells us.
What is a really interesting piece of information, is the fact that donkeys, and horses can reproduce offspring -- mules. Homo sapiens and chimpanzees as more closely related than donkeys and horses are. This implies that without any aid from science, and homo sapien, and a chimpanzee could most likely reproduce. We might be able to produce male offspring with any of the great apes, but could most likely produce both male and female offspring with a chimp or bonobo, and given evidence from similarly related species, many of them may very well even be fertile.
In any case -- just reading about what we know about ourselves, other species on earth, and how we can form genealogies alone makes denying that evolution at least occurred simply unreasonable.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 10:58:12 AM
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 10:58:12 AM
QuoteWhat is a really interesting piece of information, is the fact that donkeys, and horses can reproduce offspring -- mules. Homo sapiens and chimpanzees as more closely related than donkeys and horses are. This implies that without any aid from science, and homo sapien, and a chimpanzee could most likely reproduce. We might be able to produce male offspring with any of the great apes, but could most likely produce both male and female offspring with a chimp or bonobo, and given evidence from similarly related species, many of them may very well even be fertile.
I'm going to have to disagree right there, and you were doing so well. From the evidence I've read humans and chimps are NOT genetically compatible and yes expeiriments have been done (eeew), just like chimps and gorillas aren't. On top of that when different but closely related species do mate they are nearly if not always sterile, and have other genetic flaws, as in the case of the liger (lion and tiger) never stops growing. If you know anything about gigantisism, abnormaly large growth causes many health problems. Acording to the evidence I've read cross speiciation by natural means can't produce healty geneticly viabe offspring. Which may be why Neanderthal dna has not been found in humans even though we were even more closely related to them (though there is some evidence of cross/offspring no dna today would mean they too were infertile).
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 11:43:33 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 11:43:33 AM
Quote from: "Tanker"I'm going to have to disagree right there, and you were doing so well. From the evidence I've read humans and chimps are NOT genetically compatible and yes expeiriments have been done (eeew), just like chimps and gorillas aren't.
Limited experiments were done for a short time in the 20s by the soviets, and they revealed that homo sapien sperm can penetrate all of the great ape eggs in controlled conditions, it was just that no successful pregnancy was recorded, although three attempts were all that was ever made. The genetics all support it as viable however. Also, it was only attempted with homo sapien sperm, and female chimps, where as it is quite possible that it is only possible for homo sapien females to become impregnated by chimp sperm. Although, since both of our sex chromosome match up, either should work.
QuoteOn top of that when different but closely related species do mate they are nearly if not always sterile, and have other genetic flaws, as in the case of the liger (lion and tiger) never stops growing.
I did mention this actually, I said that given evidence from similarly related species -- and by this I was specifically referring to the Przewalski horse and the domesticated horse, which have the same chromosomal disparity as us and chimps, and produce semi-fertile offspring, where the males can reproduce with female domesticated horses. You must take into account chromosomal disparity. Horses and Zebras can breed, yet their chromosomal disparity is between 12 and 20, depending on the species. Humans and chimps only vary by 1 pair, and our X and Y chromosomes are identical (though only with chimpanzees and bonobos, as sometime between the time that our common ancestor split off from the other great apes, and our ancestry diverged from the chimps, there was a large transposition of chromosome 1 to chromosome Y, which means that only H. sapiens, chimps and bonobos share both of the same sex chromosomes). All male mules, and most female mules are infertile, but they don't share exactly the same sex chromosomes, though their chromosomal disparity is also 1.
QuoteIf you know anything about gigantisism, abnormaly large growth causes many health problems. Acording to the evidence I've read cross speiciation by natural means can't produce healty geneticly viabe offspring.
I never said that the offspring would be healthy. I merely said that they could most likely be produced, although since mules, safari cats, and so forth are all produced, and turn out to be largely viable despite being the product of species that are not as closely related as ourselves and chimps, it is by no means unreasonable to assume that they would be at least as viable.
QuoteWhich may be why Neanderthal dna has not been found in humans even though we were even more closely related to them (though there is some evidence of cross/offspring no dna today would mean they too were infertile).
This is a non sequitur, by no means all of the individuals that lived thirty thousand years ago have surviving descendants. Because we don't see neanderthal DNA in the modern population merely reveals that no hybrids that achieved a successful genetic legacy existed. There is a reason that when you go back far enough we all share a common ancestor: the overwhelming majority of genetic legacies dry up.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 03:22:56 PM
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 03:22:56 PM
QuoteWhich may be why Neanderthal dna has not been found in humans even though we were even more closely related to them (though there is some evidence of cross/offspring no dna today would mean they too were infertile).
This is a non sequitur, by no means all of the individuals that lived thirty years ago have surviving descendants. Because we don't see neanderthal DNA in the modern population merely reveals that no hybrids that achieved a successful genetic legacy existed. There is a reason that when you go back far enough we all share a common ancestor: the overwhelming majority of genetic legacies dry up.
No a non sequiter would be stateing something off topic. Oh yeah and I like pizza.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 03:38:49 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 03:38:49 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Thanks for that link. I enjoyed it :) Not a whole site.Sorry, but I just don't have time to bash my head against this particular wall.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 08, 2009, 04:09:19 PM
Post by: PipeBox on April 08, 2009, 04:09:19 PM
Quote from: "Tanker"No a non sequiter would be stateing something off topic. Oh yeah and I like pizza.
Allow me. Whether or not Neanderthals are alive today is irrelevant in a discussion on whether it is possible for humans and chimps to interbreed. It may fall on the same topic, but as part of the argument extended up to that point, it was a non sequiter. I can see how you got there, it just isn't relevant to the argument in any obvious way to me. Neanderthals were clearly not sterile, were viable in their environment for a long time, and we not likely the result of mating between a chimp and human.
*EDIT*
Oh, and welcome to the forums, ManofGod. I may have some questions for you later, we'll see. Now I'm gonna go rack up another post in your intro thread. :P
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 05:03:41 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 05:03:41 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Thanks for that link. I enjoyed it :) Not a whole site.Sorry, but I just don't have time to bash my head against this particular wall.
Thats what I figured.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: rlrose328 on April 08, 2009, 05:16:33 PM
Post by: rlrose328 on April 08, 2009, 05:16:33 PM
Quote from: "G.ENIGMA"[youtube:x62wem1z]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWqgD7lGneU[/youtube:x62wem1z]
I could watch that clip over and over all day long and still have tears in my eyes. I remember that episode vividly.
To stay on topic, I believe there are massive contradictions in the bible and that it was never intended to be taken to the literal extreme that contemporary Christians take it. There is no possible way to explain the majority of the contradictions and errors truthfully, much less logically, without just making crap up and bending facts to fit forgone conclusions.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 05:22:34 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 08, 2009, 05:22:34 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Don't sound so smug; it's not a concession. I'm simply too busy to engage in a pointless argument with someone whose philosophy of science is so painfully unsound.Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Sorry, but I just don't have time to bash my head against this particular wall.Thats what I figured.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: rlrose328 on April 08, 2009, 05:31:21 PM
Post by: rlrose328 on April 08, 2009, 05:31:21 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Ill just give the historical document the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, so far it hasn't been wrong.
Given that logic, I have an historical document called "The Odyssey" about a Greek man's travels. He meets gods who have extraordinary and supernature powers, women women who sing to distract sailors, and is given a bag filled with winds. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that these things are true because so far, it hasn't been proven wrong.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 08, 2009, 06:01:49 PM
Post by: McQ on April 08, 2009, 06:01:49 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Don't sound so smug; it's not a concession. I'm simply too busy to engage in a pointless argument with someone whose philosophy of science is so painfully unsound.Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Sorry, but I just don't have time to bash my head against this particular wall.Thats what I figured.
I second this message from Curio. This is why I no longer engage in these debates. It is almost always pointless. You have no idea, manofgod, how many times we've been through this stuff. Once again, what we see here is a christian who assumes he knows 1) what an atheist is or means, 2) assumes that atheists haven't been part of a religion like christianity, 3) and who assumes that because he himself used to be a non-believer, thought that he knew it all, only to finally see the "truth".
Just because you once didn't have a firm belief in a god doesn't mean anything except that you consciously made a choice to embrace an irrational belief system over a rational one. Many people here were believers (please don't even think about going to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy). What made many of us question our beliefs was our substantial knowledge of scripture and how it does not jive with reality. I've said it before to so many people, especially YECs....you really don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about when it comes to science. It's a tough thing to hear, but it's true. And I was in your shoes at one time.
So do yourself and us a favor, and at least try to be intellectually honest about this. Just your reference to the Grand Canyon and approaching it from the same "evidence" and coming to different conclusions is so startlingly wrong as to be laughable. It's like I don't even know where to start with this. This will be my only response in this thread, as like Curio, I just can't bother with or have the time to bash my head against this wall again.
Sorry to sound so obnoxious or curt. You are welcome to continue to debate with anyone who has the time and patience. I'm sure there will be other threads in which we have much in common and can have a congenial chat. But this won't be one of them.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 06:26:33 PM
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 06:26:33 PM
Quote from: "PipeBox"Quote from: "Tanker"No a non sequiter would be stateing something off topic. Oh yeah and I like pizza.
Allow me. Whether or not Neanderthals are alive today is irrelevant in a discussion on whether it is possible for humans and chimps to interbreed. It may fall on the same topic, but as part of the argument extended up to that point, it was a non sequiter. I can see how you got there, it just isn't relevant to the argument in any obvious way to me. Neanderthals were clearly not sterile, were viable in their environment for a long time, and we not likely the result of mating between a chimp and human.
*EDIT*
Oh, and welcome to the forums, ManofGod. I may have some questions for you later, we'll see. Now I'm gonna go rack up another post in your intro thread. :P
I was useing neaderthals as an example of an even more closely related species not haveing any viable offspring with humans. So I still see it as relevent and not a non sequiter.
I was also not stateing they themselves were sterile but that any hybrid offspring would have been, since there is no Neanderthal dna present in human dna. Considering that they were sentient, lived in the same areas as humans, were remakable human like, and coexisted with us for 10,000s of years, Sex between the species is almost a given (almost). The fact that there is no examples of neanderthal dna in modern humans leaves me to believe any offspring that might have existed, assumeing we were that geneticly compatable, were most likely sterile. Though it is possible that any family lines with said dna died off, it seems to me the more likely reason would be sterility.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: joeactor on April 08, 2009, 07:45:54 PM
Post by: joeactor on April 08, 2009, 07:45:54 PM
YEC? Ok, sorry, but you lost me too.
I can't see this conversation getting anywhere. I can see some of your points (and you've been quite polite, thank you), but for me the logic train has derailed...
The bible, tho it does contain some historical facts, is not an historical document per se. Even so, there are many more reliable historical documents - ones that are corroborated and not self-contradictory. You might as well be telling us that Harry Potter or Angels and Deamons are historical documents.
As for logic, I'll let humour speak for me:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvirgotex.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F11%2Flogic-youre-doing-it-wrong.jpg&hash=f2b291c9fcacb0998d641286cd2598ae73a65a52)
Hope to talk to you on other topics,
JoeActor
I can't see this conversation getting anywhere. I can see some of your points (and you've been quite polite, thank you), but for me the logic train has derailed...
The bible, tho it does contain some historical facts, is not an historical document per se. Even so, there are many more reliable historical documents - ones that are corroborated and not self-contradictory. You might as well be telling us that Harry Potter or Angels and Deamons are historical documents.
As for logic, I'll let humour speak for me:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvirgotex.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F11%2Flogic-youre-doing-it-wrong.jpg&hash=f2b291c9fcacb0998d641286cd2598ae73a65a52)
Hope to talk to you on other topics,
JoeActor
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 09:40:25 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 09:40:25 PM
Quote from: "Tanker"No a non sequiter would be stateing something off topic. Oh yeah and I like pizza.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic))
You asserted that because no Neanderthal DNA exists in the modern population, that any hybrids that may have existed must have been sterile. This is a logical non sequitur, and I explained why. You are thinking of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(absurdism)) kind of non sequitur, which is not the same as a logical non sequitur.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 10:06:23 PM
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 10:06:23 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "Tanker"No a non sequiter would be stateing something off topic. Oh yeah and I like pizza.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic))
You asserted that because no Neanderthal DNA exists in the modern population, that any hybrids that may have existed must have been sterile. This is a logical non sequitur, and I explained why. You are thinking of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(absurdism)) kind of non sequitur, which is not the same as a logical non sequitur.
perhaps you missed this, where I explained my reasoning?
Quote from: "Tanker"Quote from: "PipeBox"Quote from: "Tanker"No a non sequiter would be stateing something off topic. Oh yeah and I like pizza.
Allow me. Whether or not Neanderthals are alive today is irrelevant in a discussion on whether it is possible for humans and chimps to interbreed. It may fall on the same topic, but as part of the argument extended up to that point, it was a non sequiter. I can see how you got there, it just isn't relevant to the argument in any obvious way to me. Neanderthals were clearly not sterile, were viable in their environment for a long time, and we not likely the result of mating between a chimp and human.
*EDIT*
Oh, and welcome to the forums, ManofGod. I may have some questions for you later, we'll see. Now I'm gonna go rack up another post in your intro thread. :P
I was useing neaderthals as an example of an even more closely related species not haveing any viable offspring with humans. So I still see it as relevent and not a non sequiter.
I was also not stateing they themselves were sterile but that any hybrid offspring would have been, since there is no Neanderthal dna present in human dna. Considering that they were sentient, lived in the same areas as humans, were remakable human like, and coexisted with us for 10,000s of years, Sex between the species is almost a given (almost). The fact that there is no examples of neanderthal dna in modern humans leaves me to believe any offspring that might have existed, assumeing we were that geneticly compatable, were most likely sterile. Though it is possible that any family lines with said dna died off, it seems to me the more likely reason would be sterility.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 10:09:10 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 10:09:10 PM
Quote from: "Tanker"perhaps you missed this, where I explained my reasoning?
That is basically what you said to begin with, so, to reiterate: "This is a non sequitur, by no means all of the individuals that lived thirty thousand years ago have surviving descendants. Because we don't see neanderthal DNA in the modern population merely reveals that no hybrids that achieved a successful genetic legacy existed. There is a reason that when you go back far enough we all share a common ancestor: the overwhelming majority of genetic legacies dry up."
For this reason it in no way follows that because no Neanderthal DNA exists in the modern population that any hybrids must have been infertile. A larger percentage of all fertile homo sapiens living thirty thousand years ago do not have surviving descendants.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 10:45:05 PM
Post by: Tanker on April 08, 2009, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "Tanker"perhaps you missed this, where I explained my reasoning?
That is basically what you said to begin with, so, to reiterate: "This is a non sequitur, by no means all of the individuals that lived thirty thousand years ago have surviving descendants. Because we don't see neanderthal DNA in the modern population merely reveals that no hybrids that achieved a successful genetic legacy existed. There is a reason that when you go back far enough we all share a common ancestor: the overwhelming majority of genetic legacies dry up."
For this reason it in no way follows that because no Neanderthal DNA exists in the modern population that any hybrids must have been infertile. A larger percentage of all fertile homo sapiens living thirty thousand years ago do not have surviving descendants.
I'm gonna need a link I'm feeling a bit dubious about this. While I don't think you are intentionally being misleading, I don't think your right. There were fewer people the farther back you go so yes we do have common ancetors but it seems to me that with fewer breeding partners available It would be more likly that if a viable match existed it's genes would be passed on. ( I know I haven't posted any links myself, and I could try to find some if you wish, I just happen to get alot of my knoledge from printed matierial
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 11:24:58 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 11:24:58 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Don't sound so smug; it's not a concession. I'm simply too busy to engage in a pointless argument with someone whose philosophy of science is so painfully unsound.Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Sorry, but I just don't have time to bash my head against this particular wall.Thats what I figured.
Fair enough, well the thread is open when your ready to engage.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 11:27:58 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 08, 2009, 11:27:58 PM
You made the original assertion (that if a fertile hybrid existed, then they ought to have surviving descendants), you support it.
I find it stunning that you would disagree. Do you not agree that if you go back far enough, that we all share a common ancestor? If you do then it simply must be the case that we share no relation to any of the contemporaneous individuals that lived with this common ancestor.
I probably wouldn't be able to find the percentage of individuals that lived thirty thousand years ago that have surviving descendants. It simply follows from a basic knowledge of evolution that the vast, vast majority of genetic legacies dry up. You think that the majority of living things that have ever lived have surviving descendants? Or are humans the exception?
I find it stunning that you would disagree. Do you not agree that if you go back far enough, that we all share a common ancestor? If you do then it simply must be the case that we share no relation to any of the contemporaneous individuals that lived with this common ancestor.
I probably wouldn't be able to find the percentage of individuals that lived thirty thousand years ago that have surviving descendants. It simply follows from a basic knowledge of evolution that the vast, vast majority of genetic legacies dry up. You think that the majority of living things that have ever lived have surviving descendants? Or are humans the exception?
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 11:49:25 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 08, 2009, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: "rlrose328"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Ill just give the historical document the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, so far it hasn't been wrong.QuoteGiven that logic, I have an historical document called "The Odyssey" about a Greek man's travels. He meets gods who have extraordinary and supernature powers, women women who sing to distract sailors, and is given a bag filled with winds. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that these things are true because so far, it hasn't been proven wrong.
That is why the Odyssey has already been deemed a work of fiction. Did not quite pass the test the Bible has been through.
The Bible has already has been authenticated a million times over by scholars of all background. (Not bad for 66 books written by 40 different authors on 3 different continents.) Therefore, accepting its claims are a little different then accepting the claims in the Odyssey, assuming we are still operating on some form of logic.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 09, 2009, 12:04:32 AM
Post by: G.ENIGMA on April 09, 2009, 12:04:32 AM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Possibly that the context in which the Bible was written is so far removed from modern (or, dare I say, postmodern) life that to say the Bible makes sense "in context" is, in and of itself, illogical.
The Bible is, plain and simply, anachronistic.
I had to look up anachronistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anachronism)
and learnt a new word so thanks for that :D
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 09, 2009, 12:12:56 AM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 09, 2009, 12:12:56 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"That is why the Odyssey has already been deemed a work of fiction. Did not quite pass the test the Bible has been through.
The Bible has already has been authenticated a million times over by scholars of all background. (Not bad for 66 books written by 40 different authors on 3 different continents.) Therefore, accepting its claims are a little different then accepting the claims in the Odyssey, assuming we are still operating on some form of logic.
What test is that that the bible has been through?
Authenticated a million times over? Authenticated how? Do you mean they actually authenticated that it was written by men? Because I'm pretty sure the Odyssey was written by men, as well as the bible. Authenticated as in it has been authenticated as being the true word of your god? Nope. I'm sure you can't find me one legitimate source that authenticates it that way, let alone a million.
It is no different. It was written by human men. There is no proof that it is anything more than a work of fiction, just like the Odyssey.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 09, 2009, 03:09:43 AM
Post by: McQ on April 09, 2009, 03:09:43 AM
Quote from: "Tanker"Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "Tanker"perhaps you missed this, where I explained my reasoning?
That is basically what you said to begin with, so, to reiterate: "This is a non sequitur, by no means all of the individuals that lived thirty thousand years ago have surviving descendants. Because we don't see neanderthal DNA in the modern population merely reveals that no hybrids that achieved a successful genetic legacy existed. There is a reason that when you go back far enough we all share a common ancestor: the overwhelming majority of genetic legacies dry up."
For this reason it in no way follows that because no Neanderthal DNA exists in the modern population that any hybrids must have been infertile. A larger percentage of all fertile homo sapiens living thirty thousand years ago do not have surviving descendants.
I'm gonna need a link I'm feeling a bit dubious about this. While I don't think you are intentionally being misleading, I don't think your right. There were fewer people the farther back you go so yes we do have common ancetors but it seems to me that with fewer breeding partners available It would be more likly that if a viable match existed it's genes would be passed on. ( I know I haven't posted any links myself, and I could try to find some if you wish, I just happen to get alot of my knoledge from printed matierial
Go with Hitsumei on this one. She's got it right.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 09, 2009, 03:15:21 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 09, 2009, 03:15:21 AM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"There were people created separately, and outside of the Garden of Eden that are not descendants of Adam and Eve? What is your biblical support for this assertion? Who was created separate, and outside of the Garden of Eden? What was their relationship to god?
This would seem to have massive theological implications, which would almost certainly be support for racism, so I find it incredibly strange that I've never heard this before.
No worries, if you need me to elaborate, I will do so.
In GE 1, GE 2:1-3, covers creation week.
4 This is the history[a] of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens -- Now at this point we are transitioning into a brief history of creation week. (Thats the 9nth grade English you were referring to down below).
5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground -- still creation week.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. -- creation of man on day 6
From this point we now have life inside the garden. In fact, NKJV titles it:
Life in God’s Garden
8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
QuoteThis should really be followed by an apology.:brick:
QuoteShould have researched both sides.
I have.
QuoteThe flood is impossible, there isn't enough water on earth to flood all of the land period, let alone to the depth claimed in the bible.
The New Encyclopaedia Britannica says: "The average depth of all the seas has been estimated at 3,790 metres (12,430 feet), a figure considerably larger than that of the average elevation of the land above the sea level, which is 840 metres (2,760 feet). If the average depth is multiplied by its respective surface area, the volume of the World Ocean is 11 times the volume of the land above sea level." So, if everything were leveled out - if the mountains were flattened and the deep sea basins filled in - the sea would cover the whole earth to a depth of thousands of meters.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/preview/i_3211.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/preview/i_3211.html) -- interesting video, "defies this (millions of years) explanation"
QuoteIt is also completely absurd to think that the some 10 million land animal species could have fit on a boat themselves, let alone to leave room enough to feed them for the duration of the flood. Also, any marine biologist would tell you that such an event would kill most of the marine life as well.
Thats why 10 million land animals were not packed in the Ark. Surely you know the Creationist argument for this?
QuoteThe whole entire concept is completely and utterly absurd from a scientific point of view. In order to think that it happened you need to repeatedly invoke a miracle to explain away everything that would be impossible, hardly making it reasonable, let alone scientific.Says evolutionist.
Quote"This isn't about "interpreting evidence" this is about attempting to mash the evidence to fit a preconceived conclusion. Any scientific analyzes of the evidence leads to only one conclusion. You already have to be a YEC in order to conclude that the flood was responsible."I disagree. People who believe like you do in the scientific community create an environment where no-one can entertain a flood idea.
QuoteBecause it contradictions almost all of the life sciences, and a large portion of the physical, and cosmological sciences.
Cause it contradicts your theory/belief/worldview, not facts.
Quotesince you do not believe the Bible to begin with, why would you believe its claims about the origins of the earth?
QuoteOne isn't suppose to accept conclusions before they have reason and evidence to do so, that is known as "begging the question", and is an informal logical fallacy. It makes no logical sense to accept a conclusion before it has been demonstrated.What conclusions was I asking you to accept?
QuoteIts a dead end discussion in my opinion. There are Christians that cannot even let go of this concept of evolution because it is so ingrained in their head. So ill think Ill pass.
QuoteYEC is simply disproved. Any person with even a rudimentary understanding of the sciences knows this. To put it bluntly, anyone who doesn't accept that evolution at least occurred -- whether they agree that Darwinism can explain it all, or not is a different story -- is either ignorant or dishonest.
Translated -- anyone who does not accept that my world view at least occurred is either ignorant or dishonest.
QuoteEven the major ID architects, including the only scientist among them, Michael Behe, do not deny that evolution occurred. They merely disagree that Darwinism is apt to explain it all.
And that means what?
QuoteWe've mapped the human genome. We can demonstrate genealogy between species in the exact same sense that paternity tests demonstrate genealogy between fathers and their offspring for the courts. Even if we completely lacked a fossil record, the DNA evidence is completely overwhelming. Though we do have the fossil record, and it matches exactly with what genetics tells us.
Do I have to search for a comparison of DNA similarities between inanimate objects and living organisms to illustrate how silly this point is?
QuoteWhat is a really interesting piece of information, is the fact that donkeys, and horses can reproduce offspring -- mules. Homo sapiens and chimpanzees as more closely related than donkeys and horses are. This implies that without any aid from science, and homo sapien, and a chimpanzee could most likely reproduce. We might be able to produce male offspring with any of the great apes, but could most likely produce both male and female offspring with a chimp or bonobo, and given evidence from similarly related species, many of them may very well even be fertile.
In any case -- just reading about what we know about ourselves, other species on earth, and how we can form genealogies alone makes denying that evolution at least occurred simply unreasonable.
It sounds like your mind has been made up. If I am mistaken then I am sure ill be corrected.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 09, 2009, 03:33:21 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 09, 2009, 03:33:21 AM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"That is why the Odyssey has already been deemed a work of fiction. Did not quite pass the test the Bible has been through.
The Bible has already has been authenticated a million times over by scholars of all background. (Not bad for 66 books written by 40 different authors on 3 different continents.) Therefore, accepting its claims are a little different then accepting the claims in the Odyssey, assuming we are still operating on some form of logic.
What test is that that the bible has been through?
Authenticated a million times over? Authenticated how? Do you mean they actually authenticated that it was written by men? Because I'm pretty sure the Odyssey was written by men, as well as the bible. Authenticated as in it has been authenticated as being the true word of your god? Nope. I'm sure you can't find me one legitimate source that authenticates it that way, let alone a million.
It is no different. It was written by human men. There is no proof that it is anything more than a work of fiction, just like the Odyssey.
Why reinvent the wheel?
"I. The Bibliographical Test
A. Reliability of the copies
It is important to examine the textual transmission by which documents reach us. What this means is since we do not have the original documents, we must determine how reliable our copies are based upon the number copies we have and the time interval between the original writing and the existing copies.
For example, Plato’s work Tetralogies was written between 427-347 B.C. The earliest copy we have of this work is dated 900 A.D., meaning a time span of 1200 years between the original writing and a copy in existence. We have only seven copies of this work. Similarly, Tacitus was a Roman historian who wrote about 100 A.D. The earliest copy we have of his work 1100 A.D., which leaves a time span of 1000 years. We have less than 20 copies of his work. For a complete chart of historical documents, I encourage you to read Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell.
William Shakespeare wrote his plays in the 17 th century. Yet in every one of his plays we have gaps in the printed text, where we have no idea what originally was said. Textual scholars must make emendations (a good guess) to fill in the blanks. We see that every historical document has problems when it comes to the number of copies which exist and how many years removed the copies are from the original.
What would you suppose is the number of New Testament copies we have in existence today? Would you suppose we only have a handful, like the works of Tacitus? Would you suppose that we only have a few like the works of Plato and Pliny? We have over 24,000 ancient manuscript copies of the New Testament. This is an astounding number. In fact, the next greatest amount of manuscript copies we have of any other historical work is Homer’s Iliad which has only 643 copies. We have nearly 40 times as many ancient copies of the New Testament than we have for Homer’s Iliad. We have over 5600 Greek manuscript copies of the New Testament alone!
Further, the earliest copy we have of Homer’s Iliad was written about 500 years after the original was penned. Hundreds of years passed allowing time for changes from the original writing. The earliest copy we have of the New Testament is 25 years after the original writings. We have copies dating to 125 A.D., 25-50 years time from when the originals were penned. These early copies show us that we have the original writings in our copies.
Realize that when you only have seven copies of an ancient manuscript, if a couple have a discrepancy, it is hard to know what the original said. Four manuscripts read one way and three manuscripts read another way. How can you know which is the original reading? However, when you have over 24,000 ancient manuscripts, if a handful of manuscripts have a discrepancy, it is easy to know what the original was because of the majority reading of the other manuscripts.
B. Variants and discrepancies?
So are there any variants or discrepancies between the manuscript copies? Homer’s Iliad has 764 lines in doubt. 764 lines where there are variations and thus there is argument over the reading. Does anyone today read Homer’s Iliad and say that they cannot trust the reading because of these variations? Not at all. I have never heard any English professor declare Homer’s Iliad as untrustworthy because of these variations. How many variations are there in the New Testament? There are 40 lines (400 words) that are in doubt, which amounts one-half of one percent of the document.
Now let me put this into proper perspective. You may read the claims that there are 150,000 variants in the New Testament. This means if the same word is misspelled in 3000 manuscripts then there are 3000 variants. Of the 150,000 variant readings, they occur in only 10,000 places. Of these 10,000 places, all but 400 are questions of spelling in according with accepted usage, grammatical construction, or order of words. This is what we said above that there are 40 lines (400 words) in doubt. Of the 400 words, only 50 are of great significance. In some places the copies have “Lord Jesus†while others have “Lord Jesus Christ.†This is not significant because the meaning is clearly obvious. Of the 50 of great significance, not one of these changes one article of faith that cannot be abundantly sustained by other undoubted passages.
I would like to show you one of the places where there is a significant variant. In Acts 8:37 most of the manuscript copies contain the confession of the Ethiopian eunuch. Some of the manuscript copies do not contain this confession, and many of your Bibles make a marking designating this variation. Does the loss of the eunuch’s confession change an article of faith? No article of faith is lost because the scriptures abundantly teach the need for confession. Romans 10:9-10 says, “If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.†Confession is taught in the scriptures as necessary for salvation. We do not need to eunuch’s confession in Acts 8 to know a confession is necessary by all who desire to be disciples of Christ. Acts 8:37 is a significant variant, perhaps one of the largest variants, yet it does not change any teaching in the Bible.
No one questions the historical books of antiquity simply because we do not possess the original documents. Based upon only a handful of copies dates hundreds of years later from the originals, we still have confidence in the works of Plato, Tacitus, Homer, and many others. The New Testament has thousands of copies, some of which are dated within 25-50 years of the originals. No one has a claim that the New Testament is untrustworthy based upon textual transmission.
I do not have as much time to go into the same amount of detail concerning the Old Testament. The Dead Sea Scrolls were a historic find bringing the gap of time between the original and the copies to only a couple hundred years. Up until the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls, our earliest copies were 1300 years from the originals, which was no better than some other ancient literature. The Dead Sea Scrolls also proved the accuracy of the later copies because there were no significant changes between the manuscripts. The scribes of the Old Testament were very meticulous about copying word of word such that they felt they could destroy the original because the copy was completely accurate to the original.
II. Internal Evidence Test
A. Literary criticism
Aristotle’s dictum toward literary criticism was this: “The benefit of the doubt is given to the document itself, and not arrogated by the critic to himself.†Basically, what this means is that we must listen to the claims of the document under analysis and not assume fraud or error unless the author of the document disqualifies himself by contradictions or known inaccuracies.
If this is not the basis for examining a historical document, then anyone could simply declare a historical document fraudulent and therefore discarded. Rather, we must assume accuracy and reliability unless something in the writing proves itself false.
B. Inaccuracies or contradictions?
Of course, many critics have come along a declared that there are geographical inaccuracies or contradictions. First, if anyone claims contradictions, let them prove it. This is an unsubstantiated charge that is constantly thrown about without any merit or proof. Any time the charge of contradiction comes up, we must ask if there is a good and sufficient answer for the charge. It is not enough to claim contradiction but not try to reconcile the alleged contradiction.
Second, the Bible has constantly been charged with geographical inaccuracies. There have been claims that the Bible is in error concerning the location and naming of cities because we have no record of the city. However, archaeology continues to prove the words of the Bible as we excavate and find more remnants of the past. In future lessons, Lord willing, we will look in more detail at the internal evidences of the Bible to see if it truly reliable.
III. External Evidence Test
A. Writings
Not only must the document be validated by its own internal evidences, but must maintain accuracy to the external evidences. We must determine with other historical material confirms or denies the internal testimony of the document. Therefore, we are looking for other sources to substantiate the document’s accuracy and reliability.
We first have the writings of other Christians in the early centuries of the existence of the people we read in the Bible. Eusebius speaks of Mark writing down the words of Peter concerning Christ, which is a reference to the gospel of Mark. Ireneus speaks of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all publishing their gospels in different locations at varying times. Other Christian writers validating the Bible are Papias, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, and Tatian. They all wrote within the first hundred years of the writing of the New Testament.
We also have the writings of non-Christians which confirms the accuracy of the scriptures. Tacitus records Christus who suffered extreme penalty by the hands of Pontius Pilate. Suetonius confirms the Bible record of Jews being expelled from Rome under the reign of Claudius Caesar. Josephus also verified many statements of the New Testament.
B. Archaeology
As we mentioned a moment ago, archeology is another test used to verify a historical document. Other books that claim to be the word of God have obvious geographical inaccuracies. For example, the book of Mormon says Jesus was born in Jerusalem. The Bible says Jesus was born in Bethlehem. To reconcile this, the Mormons say that Bethlehem was a suburb of Jerusalem. But archaeology and other external evidence show that such an argument is false. Bethlehem was a distinct town unto itself.
The Bible has stood the tests of archaeology, never one artifact disproving anything recorded in the Bible. In fact, archaeology continues to prove the validity of the Bible throughout time.
Conclusion:
We can trust the Bible as reliable. We will spend more time in future going into detail to prove the reliability of the Bible in regards to the internal and external evidence we have today. But no one should ever claim the Bible to be untrustworthy because of the length of time removed we are from the first century. We have greater manuscript witnesses for the New Testament than we do any other historical document. We have greater testimony for the New Testament than we do for Shakespeare’s plays which were only written three centuries ago. The Bible stands the test and we can trust what we read today is what the apostles penned nearly 2000 years ago."
You have the internet, why not actually Google this stuff and find out for yourself. Read what people who think differently from you say and then decide. Or you can continue to argue, but its really not going to make a diff in my or your worldview.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: joeactor on April 09, 2009, 04:13:55 AM
Post by: joeactor on April 09, 2009, 04:13:55 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"You have the internet, why not actually Google this stuff and find out for yourself. Read what people who think differently from you say and then decide. Or you can continue to argue, but its really not going to make a diff in my or your worldview.
ok... without dropping a cut-n-paste bomb, here's one for you to read thru:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible)
As for reading what others think, that is a good basis for logic and reason - as long as you can validate and cross-reference the information. Multiple sources make for a greater chance of historical validity.
May I point out that you seem to be placing all your eggs in one biblical basket? That is hardly a robust position to hold when so many other sources point out the flaws.
I do agree with your above statement, tho...
JoeActor
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Hitsumei on April 09, 2009, 04:30:24 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 09, 2009, 04:30:24 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"No worries, if you need me to elaborate, I will do so.
In GE 1, GE 2:1-3, covers creation week.
4 This is the history[a] of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens -- Now at this point we are transitioning into a brief history of creation week. (Thats the 9nth grade English you were referring to down below).
5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground -- still creation week.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. -- creation of man on day 6
From this point we now have life inside the garden. In fact, NKJV titles it:
Life in God’s Garden
8 The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That answered precisely zero of my questions, and the last quote you gave says "eastward in Eden", not outside, like you claimed. Could you please address the questions I asked you.
QuoteI get it, your smarter then me.
Knowledge and intelligence are difference things.
QuoteThe New Encyclopaedia Britannica says: "The average depth of all the seas has been estimated at 3,790 metres (12,430 feet), a figure considerably larger than that of the average elevation of the land above the sea level, which is 840 metres (2,760 feet). If the average depth is multiplied by its respective surface area, the volume of the World Ocean is 11 times the volume of the land above sea level." So, if everything were leveled out - if the mountains were flattened and the deep sea basins filled in - the sea would cover the whole earth to a depth of thousands of meters.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/preview/i_3211.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/preview/i_3211.html) -- interesting video, "defies this (millions of years) explanation"
If case you haven't noticed, the earth is not completely leveled out. Also, the bible specifically says that the water was above the highest mountain. So this may be interesting, but irrelevant. If things were not the way that they are but some different way, then anything is true. If I were small enough, then I could ride mice! Doesn't change the fact that I can't ride mice without a change to the state of affairs of the world, and it doesn't change the fact that there isn't nearly enough water to flood the entire planet without a change to the state of affairs of the planet.
QuoteThats why 10 million land animals were not packed in the Ark. Surely you know the Creationist argument for this?
The "kinds" argument is irrelevant, and absurd, even considering that there are still hundreds of thousands of "kinds", and the food to feed them would still be impossible to fit on any boat, but the flood supposedly took place only four thousand years ago, it is completely absurd to say that they all speciated within that time to the millions of species today.
You also ignored my point on marine life.
QuoteSays evolutionist.
You just got done doing it. You implied that the whole surface of the planet was leveled out -- ergo, a miracle.
QuoteWhat conclusions was I asking you to accept?
That the bible is true. You said that you already have to believe that the bible is true in order to believe that the flood happened. Thus, you need to beg the question.
QuoteAnd that means what?
That creationisms new face is at least progressing. I figured since every point I made is countered by just saying how biased, and unaccepting I am that you would perhaps respond better to pointing to people that are closer to your views, perhaps they would be more apt to talk some sense into you. If you have already decided that everything I say is worthless, maybe it would help to point to other people.
QuoteIt sounds like your mind has been made up. If I am mistaken then I am sure ill be corrected.
Of course my mind is made up. Isn't yours? You just got done saying you were a YEC, not an agnostic, you very much hold a position. What is your point?
You shouldn't wait to be "corrected", you should actually look into things yourself.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 09, 2009, 06:03:37 AM
Post by: PipeBox on April 09, 2009, 06:03:37 AM
Sorry for video spamming, and ManofGod, I do not expect a reply to these, I just reckon you might want to watch them. You certainly seem capable of understanding them. For the record, I watched your NOVA video, so methinks you owe me at least the first watch.
[youtube:28cimd75]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI[/youtube:28cimd75]
[youtube:28cimd75]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MXTBGcyNuc[/youtube:28cimd75]
[youtube:28cimd75]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYsnVMjG4lk[/youtube:28cimd75]
And yeah, those 3 total to 30 minutes, so not for the faint of attention span. Also, I almost PM'd this, but I figure it's relevant since this thread is slowly bending around YEC stuff. And no, it's not perfectly on topic, so sorry for mostly off-topic post.
[youtube:28cimd75]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI[/youtube:28cimd75]
[youtube:28cimd75]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MXTBGcyNuc[/youtube:28cimd75]
[youtube:28cimd75]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYsnVMjG4lk[/youtube:28cimd75]
And yeah, those 3 total to 30 minutes, so not for the faint of attention span. Also, I almost PM'd this, but I figure it's relevant since this thread is slowly bending around YEC stuff. And no, it's not perfectly on topic, so sorry for mostly off-topic post.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: rlrose328 on April 09, 2009, 05:31:56 PM
Post by: rlrose328 on April 09, 2009, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "rlrose328"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Ill just give the historical document the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, so far it hasn't been wrong.
Given that logic, I have an historical document called "The Odyssey" about a Greek man's travels. He meets gods who have extraordinary and supernature powers, women women who sing to distract sailors, and is given a bag filled with winds. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that these things are true because so far, it hasn't been proven wrong.
That is why the Odyssey has already been deemed a work of fiction. Did not quite pass the test the Bible has been through.
The Bible has already has been authenticated a million times over by scholars of all background. (Not bad for 66 books written by 40 different authors on 3 different continents.) Therefore, accepting its claims are a little different then accepting the claims in the Odyssey, assuming we are still operating on some form of logic.
Okay. Please post or present this authentication... I'll take just 10 if that's okay. I don't need a million. And I'd like these to be scientific tests, not those presented by CARM or other religious websites who have an agenda to present. I'd like to see unbiased, scientific, peer-reviewed and researched proof that the bible is truth.
And why, for the sake of argument, is the Odyssey any less "truthful" than the bible? Have you met the author or anyone who knew him to know for sure?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BadPoison on April 09, 2009, 07:43:30 PM
Post by: BadPoison on April 09, 2009, 07:43:30 PM
The Odyssey and all of it's events are true! I know this because I believe it.
Let me tell you why!
1) The story hasn't changed very much since it was originally told. I know this to be true because I read it somewhere and I have access to every version ever told/written.
2) It contains many references to historical facts we know were true during the time!
3) It even mentions Ithaca and several other places, so I can visit where part of the story actually happened!
4) Also, we can examine the archaeological evidence and find things that point to the validity of the same text!
In conclusion, we can trust the Odyssey as a reliable story/document and know that it must be 100% true because of what we've found (even the really neat stuff about gods, sirens, and cyclops!)
:beer:
Let me tell you why!
1) The story hasn't changed very much since it was originally told. I know this to be true because I read it somewhere and I have access to every version ever told/written.
2) It contains many references to historical facts we know were true during the time!
3) It even mentions Ithaca and several other places, so I can visit where part of the story actually happened!
4) Also, we can examine the archaeological evidence and find things that point to the validity of the same text!
In conclusion, we can trust the Odyssey as a reliable story/document and know that it must be 100% true because of what we've found (even the really neat stuff about gods, sirens, and cyclops!)
:beer:
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Kodanshi on April 10, 2009, 11:19:55 AM
Post by: Kodanshi on April 10, 2009, 11:19:55 AM
Quote from: "dodgecity"I would just like to remind you that there's a difference between addressing a contradiction and refuting a contradiction.Fantastic points, especially the latter.
I would also like to point out that there many of works of fiction that have no contradictions within themselves. Non contradiction is a requirement of accuracy, but in itself it has absolutely no bearing on the veracity of the claims therein.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 10, 2009, 02:47:02 PM
Post by: PipeBox on April 10, 2009, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: "BadPoison"The Odyssey and all of it's events are true! I know this because I believe it.
Let me tell you why!
1) The story hasn't changed very much since it was originally told. I know this to be true because I read it somewhere and I have access to every version ever told/written.
2) It contains many references to historical facts we know were true during the time!
3) It even mentions Ithaca and several other places, so I can visit where part of the story actually happened!
4) Also, we can examine the archaeological evidence and find things that point to the validity of the same text!
In conclusion, we can trust the Odyssey as a reliable story/document and know that it must be 100% true because of what we've found (even the really neat stuff about gods, sirens, and cyclops!)
:beer: :eek:
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: rlrose328 on April 10, 2009, 06:43:34 PM
Post by: rlrose328 on April 10, 2009, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: "BadPoison"The Odyssey and all of it's events are true! I know this because I believe it.
Let me tell you why!
1) The story hasn't changed very much since it was originally told. I know this to be true because I read it somewhere and I have access to every version ever told/written.
2) It contains many references to historical facts we know were true during the time!
3) It even mentions Ithaca and several other places, so I can visit where part of the story actually happened!
4) Also, we can examine the archaeological evidence and find things that point to the validity of the same text!
In conclusion, we can trust the Odyssey as a reliable story/document and know that it must be 100% true because of what we've found (even the really neat stuff about gods, sirens, and cyclops!)
:beer: :beer:
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 08:44:17 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"That answered precisely zero of my questions, and the last quote you gave says "eastward in Eden", not outside, like you claimed. Could you please address the questions I asked you.
I will try again, its really not that complicated. Question was does GE 1 in which God creates man after he creates everything else, contradict GE 2 which it would appear he creates man and then everything else after? The answer is GE 1, GE 2: 1-7 is outside the garden and refers to creation week, GE 2 8 is the creation of the garden and everything that happens thereafter is inside that garden, I never said inside or outside of Eden.
QuoteIf case you haven't noticed, the earth is not completely leveled out. Also, the bible specifically says that the water was above the highest mountain. So this may be interesting, but irrelevant. If things were not the way that they are but some different way, then anything is true. If I were small enough, then I could ride mice! Doesn't change the fact that I can't ride mice without a change to the state of affairs of the world, and it doesn't change the fact that there isn't nearly enough water to flood the entire planet without a change to the state of affairs of the planet.
First of all, your statement was implying that it was impossible that we ever had a global flood. This shows that it was not impossible, although the theory in Encyclopedia Britannica is not the theory I subscribe to. Secondly, go back to your basics and read about what evolution says in relation to how the earth was created. What does cosmic evolution say about torrential rain or about how water even arrived to this planet? I think that theory takes more faith then anything else I ever encountered. If I was going to call anything impossible, I would definitely put that towards the top of the list.
QuoteThe "kinds" argument is irrelevant, and absurd, even considering that there are still hundreds of thousands of "kinds", and the food to feed them would still be impossible to fit on any boat, but the flood supposedly took place only four thousand years ago, it is completely absurd to say that they all speciated within that time to the millions of species today.
I see you have not considered the "other side" of the story.
"
Based on my own biological research into created kinds, I would be even bolder than Nelson. Over the past decade, I have worked to develop new methods of studying created kinds using statistics.8 This research is still very new and preliminary, but a pattern is beginning to emerge. For land animals and birds, the created kind most often corresponds to the conventional classification rank called “family,†which includes many species. There is evidence that the camel, horse, cat, dog, penguin, and iguana families are each a created kind.9 Like Nelson, I would put the coyote, wolf, jackal, and dog in the same kind, and I would include the fox. I would put the lion and house cat in another kind, and the llama and camel in yet another kind. Today these species (i.e., llama and camel) look amazingly different, but they seem to have been generated after the Flood from information already present within their parent kind. Lions, coyotes, and dromedary camels were probably not on the Ark but were born to parents within the cat, dog, and camel kinds.
How many animals were on Noah’s Ark? If created kinds really are families, as few as 2,000 individual animals might have been on the Ark.10 There were probably a bit more than that since the clean animals came in by sevens. Whatever the exact number, though, there would have been plenty of room to house these and their food, plus Noah and his family. Caring for these animals for a year would have been difficult but not impossible."
QuoteYou also ignored my point on marine life.
You assume incorrectly that every fish died. If there was a flood, wouldn't you see fossilized fish? That is exactly what we see today. Answer this, how long can a fish be dead before it becomes fossilized?
QuoteYou just got done doing it. You implied that the whole surface of the planet was leveled out -- ergo, a miracle.See previous note on the flood.
QuoteThat the bible is true. You said that you already have to believe that the bible is true in order to believe that the flood happened. Thus, you need to beg the question.
My implication actually is that since you been indoctrinated into a world belief that runs counter to biblical belief, the odds are very low of convincing you of a worldwide flood regardless of the facts I present. If the Bible didn't exist, I suspect a worldwide flood would not be that hard of a doctrine to accept since it makes the most geological sense.
QuoteThat creationisms new face is at least progressing. I figured since every point I made is countered by just saying how biased, and unaccepting I am that you would perhaps respond better to pointing to people that are closer to your views, perhaps they would be more apt to talk some sense into you. If you have already decided that everything I say is worthless, maybe it would help to point to other people.
I actually appreciate that. I do know of ID, but I do not follow there movement. And if I did, I still wouldn't take everything they say as gold. Interesting though how many evolutionist make a big deal of ID. Not everyone in ID is Christian, yet many evolutionist refuse to believe this. They just cannot comprehend how someone that is non-Christian be involved in a movement like ID. "They must be stupid." Its beyond their imagination. "Evolution is fact, not theory." Ever hear that one before? ;-)
QuoteOf course my mind is made up. Isn't yours? You just got done saying you were a YEC, not an agnostic, you very much hold a position. What is your point?
You shouldn't wait to be "corrected", you should actually look into things yourself.
My mind is definitely in the Christian camp since I already researched both sides. I mentioned in the previous post that I filter the world through the Christian lens. Previously, however, I filtered the world though the Atheist lens. Never thought in my wildest dreams that I would be a Christian. 3 years ago, I would have agreed with most of what you said. Funny how that works out.
Finally, when I said corrected, I was referring specifically to your "mind being made up." Thanks for listening, its hard to set a friendly tone on a message board. So I hope I do not come across as too much of a troll.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 09:00:47 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 09:00:47 PM
Quote from: "rlrose328"Okay. Please post or present this authentication... I'll take just 10 if that's okay. I don't need a million. And I'd like these to be scientific tests, not those presented by CARM or other religious websites who have an agenda to present. I'd like to see unbiased, scientific, peer-reviewed and researched proof that the bible is truth.
Thanks for your inquiry. I just want a little more clarity of what your asking. You want proof that the Bible is historically accurate? And how do you want me to present this information? What sources are you willing to accept as valid? Anything or anyone in specific? Is not telling you the results of the evidence acceptable or do you want to see artifact? Would the history channel be valid or do you want to see the actual scientific papers in established scientific journals. Are sources from Israelis Antiquities Authorities valid even though there respected in Archeological circles or do you need something else? Let me know your standard and ask yourself if you put your current beliefs under the same standard. Thanks.
QuoteAnd why, for the sake of argument, is the Odyssey any less "truthful" than the bible? Have you met the author or anyone who knew him to know for sure?
Why would I need to have met the author to know that. That is not archeological method for studying the accuracies of any historical document.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 10, 2009, 09:02:00 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 10, 2009, 09:02:00 PM
Thanks for the good laugh Man-ofGod. I needed that.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 09:11:41 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Thanks for the good laugh Man-ofGod. I needed that.
With out trying to insult me personally, tell me whats funny?
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Whitney on April 10, 2009, 09:21:39 PM
Post by: Whitney on April 10, 2009, 09:21:39 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "rlrose328"Thanks for your inquiry. I just want a little more clarity of what your asking. You want proof that the Bible is historically accurate? And how do you want me to present this information? What sources are you willing to accept as valid? Anything or anyone in specific? Is not telling you the results of the evidence acceptable or do you want to see artifact? Would the history channel be valid or do you want to see the actual scientific papers in established scientific journals. Are sources from Israelis Antiquities Authorities valid even though there respected in Archeological circles or do you need something else? Let me know your standard and ask yourself if you put your current beliefs under the same standard. Thanks.
I underlined what I would consider valid. Any reputable archeologist will publish their findings in a peer reviewed journal.
Btw, just because parts of the Bible are historically accurate doesn't mean the Bible is historically accurate. Many ancient myths contain some historically accurate information.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 09:30:51 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 09:30:51 PM
Quote from: "Whitney"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "rlrose328"Thanks for your inquiry. I just want a little more clarity of what your asking. You want proof that the Bible is historically accurate? And how do you want me to present this information? What sources are you willing to accept as valid? Anything or anyone in specific? Is not telling you the results of the evidence acceptable or do you want to see artifact? Would the history channel be valid or do you want to see the actual scientific papers in established scientific journals. Are sources from Israelis Antiquities Authorities valid even though there respected in Archeological circles or do you need something else? Let me know your standard and ask yourself if you put your current beliefs under the same standard. Thanks.
I underlined what I would consider valid. Any reputable archeologist will publish their findings in a peer reviewed journal.
Btw, just because parts of the Bible are historically accurate doesn't mean the Bible is historically accurate. Many ancient myths contain some historically accurate information.
Yes, but are there living descendents of these ancient myths that subscribe to the truths contained therein?
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: joeactor on April 10, 2009, 09:39:29 PM
Post by: joeactor on April 10, 2009, 09:39:29 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Yes, but are there living descendents of these ancient myths that subscribe to the truths contained therein?
Yes. I'm one of them.
In the Iliad and the Odyssey, Homer mentions Phoenicia.
I am Lebanese, and the Phoenicians are my direct ancestors.
That doesn't make the Odyssey an historical document.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 10, 2009, 09:49:06 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 10, 2009, 09:49:06 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"With out trying to insult me personally, tell me whats funny?
Couldn't do it without insulting your ideas, which in turn would insult you for believing in those ideas. I don't feel like insulting you personally since you are going about this discussion in a respectful manner, and I want to show you a level of respect which many religious fundies do not deserve from me.
That being said, I find all of your ideas humorous. Just about as funny as I would find a scientologist coming in here trying to explain why they are right. Just about as funny as someone who came in here trying to tell me the world was flat. Just as funny as someone telling me Elvis is still alive.To me they are all at the same level of ridiculousness, and I get a kick out of people who not only believe them, but try to talk others into believing them as well.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Whitney on April 10, 2009, 10:24:03 PM
Post by: Whitney on April 10, 2009, 10:24:03 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Yes, but are there living descendents of these ancient myths that subscribe to the truths contained therein?
You are moving the goal posts. But yes, some of these ancient myths are still followed (yours included).
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 10, 2009, 10:28:30 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 10, 2009, 10:28:30 PM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"That being said, I find all of your ideas humorous. Just about as funny as I would find a scientologist coming in here trying to explain why they are right. Just about as funny as someone who came in here trying to tell me the world was flat. Just as funny as someone telling me Elvis is still alive.To me they are all at the same level of ridiculousness, and I get a kick out of people who not only believe them, but try to talk others into believing them as well.Yep.
People forget that popularity does not denote correctness. Just because a billion people believe it doesn't make it any more true. Hell, have you seen how many people like American Idol? I rest my case.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 10:35:31 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 10:35:31 PM
Quote from: "joeactor"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Yes, but are there living descendents of these ancient myths that subscribe to the truths contained therein?
Yes. I'm one of them.
In the Iliad and the Odyssey, Homer mentions Phoenicia.
I am Lebanese, and the Phoenicians are my direct ancestors.
That doesn't make the Odyssey an historical document.
Now if you said the Phoencians were some of the inspired writers of the text and that the decedents, in this case the Lebanese, were the result of a movement that occurred in those days, then Homers writings would be worth a second look. But unfortunately, there are two problems with Homers writings: It is not a valid archeological source, and has never had a movement directly tied to his writings that with stood the test of times. Finally, some people forget to use common sense when it comes to the Bible, what would inspire 40 different authors to write 66 different books? Add into the mix that the Bible can get pretty boring especially when you read the book of Numbers (so its not for entertainment). What would inspire someone to write a whole chapter about genealogy and naming the members of the tribes of Israel.
Point is, you have archeological evidence and a movement tied into the contents of scripture, that both testify to its validity. Finally, the Odyssey does not claim to be the truth that all should follow. This last point may sound minor but its important. The authors of the Bible is asking its readers to believe its contents. Yet why would a book of fiction do this?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 10:39:02 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 10:39:02 PM
QuotePeople forget that popularity does not denote correctness. Just because a billion people believe it doesn't make it any more true. Hell, have you seen how many people like American Idol? I rest my case.
And that is not what makes the Bible true. Its true on its own merits. Now apply your same philosophy to evolution. Just because a million people believe its true, doesn't make it any more true.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Hitsumei on April 10, 2009, 11:01:06 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 10, 2009, 11:01:06 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"I will try again, its really not that complicated. Question was does GE 1 in which God creates man after he creates everything else, contradict GE 2 which it would appear he creates man and then everything else after? The answer is GE 1, GE 2: 1-7 is outside the garden and refers to creation week, GE 2 8 is the creation of the garden and everything that happens thereafter is inside that garden, I never said inside or outside of Eden.
You again have not answered my questions, you have merely reiterated your original assertion. Read the post I first addressed to you to see the specific questions I asked you.
QuoteFirst of all, your statement was implying that it was impossible that we ever had a global flood.
It is. At no time was the earth ever leveled off. It is also impossible for me to ride mice, despite the fact that if I were a difference size I could.
QuoteSecondly, go back to your basics and read about what evolution says in relation to how the earth was created.
Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with how the earth formed. Not even knowing this shows a staggering ignorance of evolutionary theory.
QuoteWhat does cosmic evolution say about torrential rain or about how water even arrived to this planet?
The water cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cycle) There are a few ideas about how the liquid water came about (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_water_on_Earth)
QuoteI think that theory takes more faith then anything else I ever encountered. If I was going to call anything impossible, I would definitely put that towards the top of the list.
I think I'll go with the opinions of the relevant experts, over a completely unsupported assertion by a layman.
QuoteI see you have not considered the "other side" of the story.
I just outlined it. I could not have done that if I hadn't known about it, or considered it.
QuoteBased on my own biological research into created kinds, I would be even bolder than Nelson. Over the past decade, I have worked to develop new methods of studying created kinds using statistics.8 This research is still very new and preliminary, but a pattern is beginning to emerge. For land animals and birds, the created kind most often corresponds to the conventional classification rank called “family,†which includes many species.
I'm well aware what creationists mean by "kinds". However you do realize that if you accept that species change over time, and speciate into related species, then you accept that evolution occurred. You previously implied that you thought that evolution entailed explaining the entire universe or something earlier, when it does not. Darwin wrote "on the origin of species", not "on the original of everything".
QuoteThere is evidence that the camel, horse, cat, dog, penguin, and iguana families are each a created kind.
Where?
Quote9 Like Nelson, I would put the coyote, wolf, jackal, and dog in the same kind, and I would include the fox. I would put the lion and house cat in another kind, and the llama and camel in yet another kind. Today these species (i.e., llama and camel) look amazingly different, but they seem to have been generated after the Flood from information already present within their parent kind.
On what basis does it "seem" this way? Just a gut feeling? Your gut feelings are not arguments.
QuoteHow many animals were on Noah’s Ark? If created kinds really are families, as few as 2,000 individual animals might have been on the Ark.
You think that there are only a thousand animal families? There are more than you see on old Mc"Donald's farm, you do realize?
QuoteYou assume incorrectly that every fish died. If there was a flood, wouldn't you see fossilized fish? That is exactly what we see today. Answer this, how long can a fish be dead before it becomes fossilized?
99% of all the species that have ever existed are now extinct, there isn't enough room on the planet to house even remotely that size of a biosphere. That is why there are so many fossils. It only takes a few decades for something to fossilize. What's your point? I certainly hope you are not implying that because it only takes a few decades for something to fossilize that all of the fossils we have are only a few decades old... That would be a huge non sequitur. That is tantamount to asking how long it takes a person to grow up, and then asserting that everyone who has ever lived was that age.
QuoteSee previous note on the flood.
What note? Where have you explained how the entire earth could have become flooded without invoking a miracle? I didn't catch that.
QuoteIf the Bible didn't exist, I suspect a worldwide flood would not be that hard of a doctrine to accept since it makes the most geological sense.
The entire body of the geological sciences disagrees with you, but I'm sure they're just too biased and arrogant to see the light.
QuoteI actually appreciate that. I do know of ID, but I do not follow there movement. And if I did, I still wouldn't take everything they say as gold. Interesting though how many evolutionist make a big deal of ID. Not everyone in ID is Christian, yet many evolutionist refuse to believe this.
They're all religious. They all are members of a religious group that promotes some form of creationism, and personally think that it was their specific god that created it all. Though that isn't directly relevant to their arguments. Arguments need to be addressed, not people.
QuoteThey just cannot comprehend how someone that is non-Christian be involved in a movement like ID. "They must be stupid." Its beyond their imagination. "Evolution is fact, not theory." Ever hear that one before? ;-)
Evolution is fact, Darwinism is theory. Evolutionary theory encompasses the process, not the occurrence, this is a common misconception. Just as gravitational theory attempts to explain gravity, gravity itself is not a theory. Theories are explanations for observed phenomena, evolution is such an observed phenomena, and evolutionary theory is the explanation for it.
A rudimentary understanding of what a "scientific theory" is reveals this. This misunderstanding is normally followed by talking about scientific laws, and the misapprehension that they are senior to theories, when actually scientific theories are senior to laws. Theory is the highest level of scientific achievement.
A rather simple obfuscation of "theory" with the colloquial term leaves many in confusion.
QuoteMy mind is definitely in the Christian camp since I already researched both sides. I mentioned in the previous post that I filter the world through the Christian lens. Previously, however, I filtered the world though the Atheist lens. Never thought in my wildest dreams that I would be a Christian. 3 years ago, I would have agreed with most of what you said. Funny how that works out.
Well, I am not an atheist, you should really check out people's "world view" things by their names. I filter things through a scientific, and philosophical lens, and subscribe to no metaphysical positions. I'm in no one's camp.
QuoteFinally, when I said corrected, I was referring specifically to your "mind being made up." Thanks for listening, its hard to set a friendly tone on a message board. So I hope I do not come across as too much of a troll.
The constant ad hominem are annoying, I would prefer it if you addressed the points I made specifically, and refrained from saying anything at all about me personally, I am not relevant to the topic at hand. Saying "you're just biased and close-minded" over and over again is not an intellectual objection to anything I say.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 11:07:25 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 11:07:25 PM
Quote from: "Ihateyoumike"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"With out trying to insult me personally, tell me whats funny?
Couldn't do it without insulting your ideas, which in turn would insult you for believing in those ideas. I don't feel like insulting you personally since you are going about this discussion in a respectful manner, and I want to show you a level of respect which many religious fundies do not deserve from me.
That being said, I find all of your ideas humorous. Just about as funny as I would find a scientologist coming in here trying to explain why they are right. Just about as funny as someone who came in here trying to tell me the world was flat. Just as funny as someone telling me Elvis is still alive.To me they are all at the same level of ridiculousness, and I get a kick out of people who not only believe them, but try to talk others into believing them as well.
Appreciate it.
I know exactly what your talking about. Thats why I never thought I would be on the other side of the conversation. BTW, whats funny is that the world being flat was the science of that day. Based on observable evidence (uniformitarianism), a flat world made sense. Christopher Columbus was off his bonkers with his ideas at the time. In hind site, we know he was right. Today, it is no different. Evolution is the science of the day, and everyone thinks they can explain the origins of the universe on what we can observe today. Or they admit that they cant, but there like "go with it", its better then using the Bible. Anything but the bible is acceptable. Remember that when you read a scientific article whose evidence appears it could fit in a theory that supports scripture but then goes off into the opposite direction.
Isaiah 55:9
“ For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.
FYI, I am not quoting this to be arrogant. Bear w/ me here, I just wanted to point out that if there is an all knowing God, His thoughts are way above our comprehension. Our knowledge is nothing in comparison. Furthermore, our wisdom is foolish to Him. The only one that can be uniformatarian and be 100% accurate, is God himself. Anyways, again, thanks for listening to my rhetoric.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 10, 2009, 11:09:33 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 10, 2009, 11:09:33 PM
Oops, I said I wouldn't comment. 
...circular logic! *flee*
...circular logic! *flee*
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: joeactor on April 10, 2009, 11:09:53 PM
Post by: joeactor on April 10, 2009, 11:09:53 PM
Are you sure the Oddyssey is just a story?
Full article here:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas ... histories/ (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/09/28/hidden_histories/)
Many of the statements you've made about the Odyssey could easily be made about the bible.
That is the point I and others are attempting to make.
That the bible "inspires" followers does not make it true. Many "holy" books and teachings do that.
In some cases it is only to allow the priests to maintain control of their followers.
As for evolution, it is more than millions of believers that make it true.
It is millions of experiments. Millions of results. Millions of effects on your everyday life.
Ever been vaccinated? Taken antibiotics? Been diagnosed using a genetic marker? (such as prostate testing).
These are all results of the study of genetics and evolution.
How about fruit - do you eat it? Or have any pets? Welcome to selective breeding... using man to alter the course of evolution.
The bible contains some facts. It also has unverifiable stories, inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and outright falsehoods. If it were written today, it's hard to believe any publisher would touch such a shoddy mish-mash of writings without severe editing.
I for one find the Illiad and Odyssey much more enjoyable reads, and much better written.
All the exciting story, with none of the guilt.
JoeActor
QuoteRecent advances in archeology and linguistics offer the strongest support yet that the Trojan War did take place, with evidence coming from the large excavation at the likely site of Troy, as well as new analysis of cuneiform tablets from the dominant empire of the region.
Full article here:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas ... histories/ (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/09/28/hidden_histories/)
Many of the statements you've made about the Odyssey could easily be made about the bible.
That is the point I and others are attempting to make.
That the bible "inspires" followers does not make it true. Many "holy" books and teachings do that.
In some cases it is only to allow the priests to maintain control of their followers.
As for evolution, it is more than millions of believers that make it true.
It is millions of experiments. Millions of results. Millions of effects on your everyday life.
Ever been vaccinated? Taken antibiotics? Been diagnosed using a genetic marker? (such as prostate testing).
These are all results of the study of genetics and evolution.
How about fruit - do you eat it? Or have any pets? Welcome to selective breeding... using man to alter the course of evolution.
The bible contains some facts. It also has unverifiable stories, inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and outright falsehoods. If it were written today, it's hard to believe any publisher would touch such a shoddy mish-mash of writings without severe editing.
I for one find the Illiad and Odyssey much more enjoyable reads, and much better written.
All the exciting story, with none of the guilt.
JoeActor
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 10, 2009, 11:26:02 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 10, 2009, 11:26:02 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"I know exactly what your talking about. Thats why I never thought I would be on the other side of the conversation. BTW, whats funny is that the world being flat was the science of that day. Based on observable evidence (uniformitarianism), a flat world made sense. Christopher Columbus was off his bonkers with his ideas at the time. In hind site, we know he was right. Today, it is no different.
This is false on several levels. Science did not exist at the time, its closest approximation was natural philosophy, and the scientific method had yet to be devised. Also Eratosthenes, an Egyptian librarian from Alexandria proved that the earth was round in the third century B.C.E. Columbus believed that the earth was smaller than it was, and he could sail to India, and was wrong. It was well established and accepted that the earth was round by the intelligentsia long before Columbus. Washington Irving popularized this urban legend in his 1828 autobiography of Columbus.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 10, 2009, 11:27:28 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on April 10, 2009, 11:27:28 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Evolution is fact, Darwinism is theory. Evolutionary theory encompasses the process, not the occurrence, this is a common misconception. Just as gravitational theory attempts to explain gravity, gravity itself is not a theory. Theories are explanations for observed phenomena, evolution is such an observed phenomena, and evolutionary theory is the explanation for it.
QFT.
Man-ofGod, since this thread is moving so fast, I just wanted to take this paragraph and ask you to read it. Really read it, and digest what Hitsumei is saying.
Very well put Hitsumei.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 11:29:44 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 10, 2009, 11:29:44 PM
QuoteEvolution has absolutely nothing to do with how the earth formed. Not even knowing this shows a staggering ignorance of evolutionary theory.
Just a quick reply, then I have to go eat w/ my family.
Cosmic evolution is the scientific study of universal change. It is an intellectual framework that offers a grand synthesis of the many varied changes in the assembly and composition of radiation, matter, and life throughout the history of the universe. While engaging the time-honored queries of who we are and whence we came, this interdisciplinary subject attempts to unify the sciences within the entirety of natural historyâ€"a single broad scientific narrative of a possible origin and evolution of all material things, from an inferred big bang to humankind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_evolution)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 10, 2009, 11:40:05 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 10, 2009, 11:40:05 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Just a quick reply, then I have to go eat w/ my family.
Cosmic evolution is the scientific study of universal change. It is an intellectual framework that offers a grand synthesis of the many varied changes in the assembly and composition of radiation, matter, and life throughout the history of the universe. While engaging the time-honored queries of who we are and whence we came, this interdisciplinary subject attempts to unify the sciences within the entirety of natural historyâ€"a single broad scientific narrative of a possible origin and evolution of all material things, from an inferred big bang to humankind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_evolution)
That is just a term to describe a large body of study, not a theory, and has no direct relation to any specific scientific theories, which we were discussing. "Cosmic evolution" is not itself a scientific theory. How the earth formed is covered under physics, geology and cosmology.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 10, 2009, 11:50:07 PM
Post by: PipeBox on April 10, 2009, 11:50:07 PM
I'm sorry, are we discussing different topics as though they were the same thing? Mincing words? Cosmological evolution describes biological evolution like geology describes the movements of atoms, and vice versa. These are so very different we may as well discuss radioactive decay and astronomy aside biological evolution just to keep them from bleeding over (evidently they're hard to keep separate because of that word, evolution).
Now, I'm heading out to watch a theatrical bomb.
Now, I'm heading out to watch a theatrical bomb.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: joeactor on April 11, 2009, 01:22:01 AM
Post by: joeactor on April 11, 2009, 01:22:01 AM
Quote from: "PipeBox"I'm sorry, are we discussing different topics as though they were the same thing? Mincing words? Cosmological evolution describes biological evolution like geology describes the movements of atoms, and vice versa. These are so very different we may as well discuss radioactive decay and astronomy aside biological evolution just to keep them from bleeding over (evidently they're hard to keep separate because of that word, evolution).
Now, I'm heading out to watch a theatrical bomb.
Yeppers, this thread has it all:
Misinformation, Misdirection, and Miss Congeniality!
Everyone enjoy your movie/dinner/evening,
JoeActor
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 11, 2009, 02:25:54 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 11, 2009, 02:25:54 AM
Because I'm feeling rather ostentatious, I thought I'd address the other points this post attempts to make.
No half descent cosmologist would assert that we have an explanation for the origin of the universe, or even that we know that the universe had an origin. If you think that big bang cosmology attempts to explain this, you would be wrong.
Go with what?
The bible doesn't offer an explanation, it merely says that god did it, but it doesn't say how, it doesn't offer a mechanism, and thus does not offer an explanation. That is what scientific theories do, and that is why they are explanations, because they tell us how it is done. You may say that the bible explains why it was done, and about half of the scientific community is religious, and would agree that their religion offers an explanation for why it was done, but that isn't the question science is asking. Science is asking how.
Most evidence can't, that is why it has to be ignored, distorted, or ad hoc'd away with miracles. Just go look up outside on a cloudless night and it disproves the idea that the universe is young. You can see galaxies that are billions of light years away. This evidence in no way supports such a notion, so you must either discount it completely, or claim that the universe worked differently in the past, or that god created the light already en route, all of which is not accepting the evidence, but attempting to undermine it, and explain it away.
Radiometric decay, tectonic plate activity, geological distribution of minerals from the ocean floor to mountains created by volcanic activity, rock layers, the fossil record having increasingly more complex life on each layer being dated closer and closer to our time, without ever finding a fossil in a period that it should not be in. Genealogy, geological distribution of species, comparative biology, and psychology. The formation of embryos, the appearance of virus DNA in the same gene of animals that share a common ancestor with us, but not ones before. A. Aferensis, A. Africanus, H. Habalis, H. Ergaster, H. Erectus, H. Heidelbergensis, H. Neandertalensis and H. Floresiensis, the latter two possessing language, culture and tool use -- only the former two not possessing any of those -- as well as the abstract cognitive centre of their brains being analogous to H. Sapiens, Neanderthalensis having a 20% large brain size to body mass ratio. The adaptation of viruses and bacteria to our efforts to fight them. Ring species, transitional forms between orders, such as fish like tetrapods, mammal like reptiles, and bird like reptiles. Hereditary traits, such as eye, hair, and skin colour. Vestigial organs and features, such as the vomero-nasal organ in H Sapiens, and the hind-leg bones in Blue Whales. Design flaws resulting from a blind process, such as nipples on male mammals, the blind spot in H Sapien eyes, back problems due to a spine designed for quadrupeds being distorted for bipeds. A weak abdomen in H Sapien males do to the gonads developing near the stomach -- as they reside in fish -- and traveling down the abdomen, making males susceptible to abdominal hernias.
Not only does creationism not explain any of that, but it contradicts it, and must either be ignored, or ad hoc'd away. The evidence cannot fit both conclusions as it is. It all must be denied in some way. I have never heard a creationist even attempt to explain any of that, it is either ignored completely, or denied.
All this aside, even if evolutionary theory were to be disproved tomorrow, that would not mean that evolution did not occur, that would mean that it did not occur by means of spontaneous genetic mutation, and various types of natural, artificial, and sexual selective processes.
Gravitational theory could also be disproved tomorrow, that wouldn't mean that stuff would start falling up.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Evolution is the science of the day, and everyone thinks they can explain the origins of the universe on what we can observe today.
No half descent cosmologist would assert that we have an explanation for the origin of the universe, or even that we know that the universe had an origin. If you think that big bang cosmology attempts to explain this, you would be wrong.
QuoteOr they admit that they cant, but there like "go with it", its better then using the Bible.
Go with what?
QuoteAnything but the bible is acceptable.
The bible doesn't offer an explanation, it merely says that god did it, but it doesn't say how, it doesn't offer a mechanism, and thus does not offer an explanation. That is what scientific theories do, and that is why they are explanations, because they tell us how it is done. You may say that the bible explains why it was done, and about half of the scientific community is religious, and would agree that their religion offers an explanation for why it was done, but that isn't the question science is asking. Science is asking how.
QuoteRemember that when you read a scientific article whose evidence appears it could fit in a theory that supports scripture but then goes off into the opposite direction.
Most evidence can't, that is why it has to be ignored, distorted, or ad hoc'd away with miracles. Just go look up outside on a cloudless night and it disproves the idea that the universe is young. You can see galaxies that are billions of light years away. This evidence in no way supports such a notion, so you must either discount it completely, or claim that the universe worked differently in the past, or that god created the light already en route, all of which is not accepting the evidence, but attempting to undermine it, and explain it away.
Radiometric decay, tectonic plate activity, geological distribution of minerals from the ocean floor to mountains created by volcanic activity, rock layers, the fossil record having increasingly more complex life on each layer being dated closer and closer to our time, without ever finding a fossil in a period that it should not be in. Genealogy, geological distribution of species, comparative biology, and psychology. The formation of embryos, the appearance of virus DNA in the same gene of animals that share a common ancestor with us, but not ones before. A. Aferensis, A. Africanus, H. Habalis, H. Ergaster, H. Erectus, H. Heidelbergensis, H. Neandertalensis and H. Floresiensis, the latter two possessing language, culture and tool use -- only the former two not possessing any of those -- as well as the abstract cognitive centre of their brains being analogous to H. Sapiens, Neanderthalensis having a 20% large brain size to body mass ratio. The adaptation of viruses and bacteria to our efforts to fight them. Ring species, transitional forms between orders, such as fish like tetrapods, mammal like reptiles, and bird like reptiles. Hereditary traits, such as eye, hair, and skin colour. Vestigial organs and features, such as the vomero-nasal organ in H Sapiens, and the hind-leg bones in Blue Whales. Design flaws resulting from a blind process, such as nipples on male mammals, the blind spot in H Sapien eyes, back problems due to a spine designed for quadrupeds being distorted for bipeds. A weak abdomen in H Sapien males do to the gonads developing near the stomach -- as they reside in fish -- and traveling down the abdomen, making males susceptible to abdominal hernias.
Not only does creationism not explain any of that, but it contradicts it, and must either be ignored, or ad hoc'd away. The evidence cannot fit both conclusions as it is. It all must be denied in some way. I have never heard a creationist even attempt to explain any of that, it is either ignored completely, or denied.
All this aside, even if evolutionary theory were to be disproved tomorrow, that would not mean that evolution did not occur, that would mean that it did not occur by means of spontaneous genetic mutation, and various types of natural, artificial, and sexual selective processes.
Gravitational theory could also be disproved tomorrow, that wouldn't mean that stuff would start falling up.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 11, 2009, 02:57:37 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 11, 2009, 02:57:37 AM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"I know exactly what your talking about. Thats why I never thought I would be on the other side of the conversation. BTW, whats funny is that the world being flat was the science of that day. Based on observable evidence (uniformitarianism), a flat world made sense. Christopher Columbus was off his bonkers with his ideas at the time. In hind site, we know he was right. Today, it is no different.
This is false on several levels. Science did not exist at the time, its closest approximation was natural philosophy, and the scientific method had yet to be devised. Also Eratosthenes, an Egyptian librarian from Alexandria proved that the earth was round in the third century B.C.E. Columbus believed that the earth was smaller than it was, and he could sail to India, and was wrong. It was well established and accepted that the earth was round by the intelligentsia long before Columbus. Washington Irving popularized this urban legend in his 1828 autobiography of Columbus.
Does not matter, scientific method or no scientific method, with the instruments at the time, flat world is all that made sense based on observable evidence.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 11, 2009, 03:09:10 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 11, 2009, 03:09:10 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Does not matter, scientific method or no scientific method, with the instruments at the time, flat world is all that made sense based on observable evidence.
That's false, it is trivial to prove that the world is a sphere, and could have been done at any point in history, and was done nearly two thousand years before Columbus, as I explained.
That the world is flat is merely intuitive, and is the conclusion people that never actually looked into it reached, and like the vast majority of intuitive guesses made about reality, was wrong.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 11, 2009, 05:31:43 AM
Post by: McQ on April 11, 2009, 05:31:43 AM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Does not matter, scientific method or no scientific method, with the instruments at the time, flat world is all that made sense based on observable evidence.
That's false, it is trivial to prove that the world is a sphere, and could have been done at any point in history, and was done nearly two thousand years before Columbus, as I explained.
That the world is flat is merely intuitive, and is the conclusion people that never actually looked into it reached, and like the vast majority of intuitive guesses made about reality, was wrong.
OK, I said I'd stay out of this, but now I'm finding this turning in the direction of either trolling, or a complete prank. The other alternative is that Maofgod is serious. That is the hardest to believe of the three, especially in light of the blatant historical lies in the posts regarding Columbus, round vs. Flat Earth, and then saying "it doesn't matter" when shown to be in error (among several others).
Here's the deal, MOG. You either start being honest and stop posting things that you must know to be undeniably false, or you at least take the time to do some actual research. You've stated the most absurd things and Hitsumei has demonstrated your errors. What you are engaging in is not honest debate. It is the equivalent of covering your ears and saying, "I can't hear you!" while the other person is speaking.
Get it together, please, or this is going to go south really fast. That's as sugar coated as I'm going to put it.
Title: Re: Hey Guys
Post by: rlrose328 on April 11, 2009, 09:02:51 AM
Post by: rlrose328 on April 11, 2009, 09:02:51 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Point is, you have archeological evidence and a movement tied into the contents of scripture, that both testify to its validity. Finally, the Odyssey does not claim to be the truth that all should follow. This last point may sound minor but its important. The authors of the Bible is asking its readers to believe its contents. Yet why would a book of fiction do this?
Again with the "archeological evidence." Peer-reviewed, scientific evidence provided by unbiased sources are required.
This is not to say that there are no Christian scientists (not to be confused with Christian Scientists). There ARE scientists who believe in god yet do not let it cloud their scientific judgement.
The authors of the bible may very well have existed and written what is being said was written by them. But that doesn't make it the truth. Why can you not understand that? Charlatans all over the world have wanted people to believe what they say. It is a basis of power. Belief in god has been used and manipulated for centuries to get the "ignorant masses" to do what they want. From Constantine on down, those at the top of the religious organizations enjoy power. How many good Christians have been felled by their own greed and avarice?? How many leaders have become drunk with power using religion to their advantage. These actions are not divinely inspired, but they use god and religion do carry out these deeds.
Many rulers have had religious leaders in their pockets. Do you honestly think that anyone related to religion is without guilt or desire for personal gain? THAT'S why they want you to believe, without question, what is written therein.
ALL along the centuries, the clergy has edited, deleted, and added to the bible as they saw fit based on what was going on at the time. They just make a lot of it up and put someone else's name on it. Consider this: My husband's father was a meat cutter so as a teen, he helped out. The Jewish leaders would come in once a week to bless and stamp the kosher beef which was from cows raised on specific farms with specific feed so it could be classified Kosher. MANY times, at least twice a month, the Rabbis (or whatever rank they were) would walk over to the non-kosher meat and find a side that looked better than the Kosher, and they'd have the meat company switch them before they blessed and certified it. They didn't care that their congregants would then be consuming "unfit" beef. They just made it up as they went along.
And that's how your bible came to be the work of historically inspired fiction that it is today. Much of this is conjecture and speculation, but it is out there as much as religious folks claiming the bible is 100% accurate. And both points of view are just as valid as the next.
And yes, 1,000,000 people CAN be wrong... majority may rule, but it's not always right. That's why there is such a thing as "tyranny of the majority" which democracy attempts to avoid.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: rlrose328 on April 11, 2009, 09:09:08 AM
Post by: rlrose328 on April 11, 2009, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"QuotePeople forget that popularity does not denote correctness. Just because a billion people believe it doesn't make it any more true. Hell, have you seen how many people like American Idol? I rest my case.
And that is not what makes the Bible true. Its true on its own merits. Now apply your same philosophy to evolution. Just because a million people believe its true, doesn't make it any more true.
Not an accurate comparison. We don't HAVE to "believe" that evolution is true. Life continues to evolve whether we believe it is true or not. Did you even WATCH the videos that someone posted a few pages back? If you do, you'll see one of them truly spells out why evolution is a valid theory.
The bible requires you believe it is true in order for it to mean anything. Science, and its associated theories, doesn't work that way.
Also, we have plenty of evidence... testable, verifiable, peer-reviewed scientific evidence that indicates evolution is accurate and ongoing. That is not the case with the bible, no matter how much want it to be true.
We also don't use evolution to push our own personal concepts on other people in our community by making laws. There is no law that states you have to believe that we share an ancestor with the apes (though we are both primates). But there are plenty of laws generated by religious groups that we all must follow, no matter how wrong they are to our society as a whole.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Kodanshi on April 13, 2009, 01:39:29 AM
Post by: Kodanshi on April 13, 2009, 01:39:29 AM
Quote from: "rlrose328"Not an accurate comparison. We don't HAVE to "believe" that evolution is true. Life continues to evolve whether we believe it is true or not. Did you even WATCH the videos that someone posted a few pages back? If you do, you'll see one of them truly spells out why evolution is a valid theory.
The bible requires you believe it is true in order for it to mean anything. Science, and its associated theories, doesn't work that way.
Also, we have plenty of evidence... testable, verifiable, peer-reviewed scientific evidence that indicates evolution is accurate and ongoing. That is not the case with the bible, no matter how much want it to be true.
We also don't use evolution to push our own personal concepts on other people in our community by making laws. There is no law that states you have to believe that we share an ancestor with the apes (though we are both primates). But there are plenty of laws generated by religious groups that we all must follow, no matter how wrong they are to our society as a whole.
Beautiful, insightful, and extremely wellâ€"worded. Sharp and to the point
.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 13, 2009, 02:12:12 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 13, 2009, 02:12:12 AM
Quote from: "Kodanshi"Beautiful, insightful, and extremely wellâ€"worded. Sharp and to the point :|
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 13, 2009, 03:43:44 AM
Post by: PipeBox on April 13, 2009, 03:43:44 AM
ManofGod, please go back and watch the 14th Foundational Falsehood of Creationism I posted a couple pages back. Creationism is not valid science. At BEST it is watered-down philosophy carrying the claim that we can't prove that the universe didn't come into existence 6000 years ago (or 5 seconds ago) in situ, with only the appearance of being far older and everything, including light's travel, radioactive decay, evolution, already being in progress. In science, which is the study of the universe, creationism fails miserably.
Watch that video.
Watch that video.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 05:25:39 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 05:25:39 AM
I should mention that when I said "look up on a cloudless night, and you can see galaxies that are billions of light years away" this was more for rhetorical flair than bureaucratic-accuracy. One can only actually see about ten thousand stars with the naked eye on a clear night -- you need a telescope to see other galaxies.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 13, 2009, 06:21:51 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 13, 2009, 06:21:51 AM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"I should mention that when I said "look up on a cloudless night, and you can see galaxies that are billions of light years away" this was more for rhetorical flair than bureaucratic-accuracy. One can only actually see about ten thousand stars with the naked eye on a clear night -- you need a telescope to see other galaxies.I love you.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 13, 2009, 08:12:51 AM
Post by: PipeBox on April 13, 2009, 08:12:51 AM
Well, take your pick, we can still see things that are a lot further away with our naked eyes than we ought to be able to if the universe just sprang into existence 6,000 years ago near-simultaneously. The Andromeda galaxy is about 2.5 million light years away, but there's also the Triangulum galaxy which you can see with an exceptionally clear sky, and it's about 3 million ly away, and is the third largest galaxy in local group. And then there's M81 (Messier object 81) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_81, the most distant object visible from Earth (using the naked eye) as far as I know. It's a rather awesome-looking galaxy in the Ursa Major constellation, and is about 12 million ly away! You'll only be able to see it using averted viewing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averted_vision and under awesome viewing conditions with the naked eye, but it's easily seen with binoculars or a small telescope in good conditions (still not gonna see it from a city or its outskirts). I've never seen it unaided (it's just too bright around here), and it wasn't charted by anyone prior to modern times, so it's not likely you'll catch it without aid, but hey, it's 12 million light years away! :D
My greatest sin is that I don't take it out very often anymore. I meant to invest in a camera connection and a couple eyepieces (it's only got two, 24x and 48X), but the clock drive and mount'n'tripod is A-MAZ-ING. Anyway, point is, I got cheap, and when I get cheap with a hobby, I tend to let it diminish. Like I said, sin.
RE-EDIT
Yeah, I just strayed horribly from the topic. As you were!
My greatest sin is that I don't take it out very often anymore. I meant to invest in a camera connection and a couple eyepieces (it's only got two, 24x and 48X), but the clock drive and mount'n'tripod is A-MAZ-ING. Anyway, point is, I got cheap, and when I get cheap with a hobby, I tend to let it diminish. Like I said, sin.
RE-EDIT
Yeah, I just strayed horribly from the topic. As you were!
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 08:35:01 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 08:35:01 AM
I guess I was wrong, there are five (barring our own) galaxies that can be seen with the naked eye. Although only two can be seen from the northern hemisphere, and they are quite difficult to make out, one being the hardest objective to see with the naked eye. None that are billions of light years away though.
I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 13, 2009, 09:13:55 AM
Post by: PipeBox on April 13, 2009, 09:13:55 AM
It's cool, one of my friends thought the Andromeda galaxy was just a science fiction name up until about a week ago. But I tend to consider it that optics are as reliably as eyes, properly fashioned. So when I see someone suggest that we're doing mirrors wrong ... http://www.fixedearth.com/nasas_hanky-panky.htm http://blogs4brownback.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/heliocentrism-is-an-atheist-doctrine/ sporting such profound, malicious ignorance, it pisses me off. In fact, everything at fixedearth pisses me off. I'd think they were a Poe's Law if there weren't so much of it. Anyway, as I was saying, I consider it of no consequence if we need a few wide mirrors and a lens to focus the light that must be there onto our eyes. Albeit, it's not terribly simple, but thanks to modern science, it's solid stuff. So when I say we can see a galaxy 11.7 billion light years away, I should't get the response "it's not really there." Maybe "you can't trust the redshift," but then I'll just invite them to submit a paper to a peer reviewed journal and become famous for bringing down the unsubstantiated, false doppler shift. I mean, they clearly know more than the scientists. 
Anyway, I'm off topic again. >_>
Anyway, I'm off topic again. >_>
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 13, 2009, 02:55:57 PM
Post by: McQ on April 13, 2009, 02:55:57 PM
Quote from: "PipeBox"It's cool, one of my friends thought the Andromeda galaxy was just a science fiction name up until about a week ago. But I tend to consider it that optics are as reliably as eyes, properly fashioned. So when I see someone suggest that we're doing mirrors wrong ... http://www.fixedearth.com/nasas_hanky-panky.htm http://blogs4brownback.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/heliocentrism-is-an-atheist-doctrine/ sporting such profound, malicious ignorance, it pisses me off. In fact, everything at fixedearth pisses me off. I'd think they were a Poe's Law if there weren't so much of it. Anyway, as I was saying, I consider it of no consequence if we need a few wide mirrors and a lens to focus the light that must be there onto our eyes. Albeit, it's not terribly simple, but thanks to modern science, it's solid stuff. So when I say we can see a galaxy 11.7 billion light years away, I should't get the response "it's not really there." Maybe "you can't trust the redshift," but then I'll just invite them to submit a paper to a peer reviewed journal and become famous for bringing down the unsubstantiated, false doppler shift. I mean, they clearly know more than the scientists.
Anyway, I'm off topic again. >_>
As I read that link you provided, I kept hoping it was an "Onion-esque" satire or something. Sadly, it looks like whoever made it is serious. Too bad. When I was giving classes in astronomy as part of the country's oldest amateur astronomy group, I would always point out the Andromeda Galaxy and mention its distance, and then put it into manageable perspective for people. Every now and then I'd come across a young Earth creationist who would either Tsk-tsk me, or just argue outright. It was always frustrating to see the profound willful ignorance.
I consider talking about astronomy in this thread highly relevant by the way, since it can show contradiction when comparing the bible to what we know about the solar system and galaxy, as well as the universe. So this is all on topic IMO.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 03:15:20 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 03:15:20 PM
I find it sad that so many know so little about the universe we occupy, when there is so much known. I personally can never get enough. I spend a considerable amount of time reading popular science books, and watching documentaries.
Not just the raw facts, and pure knowledge of science either, but the genius of philosophy, and the robustness, drama, absurdity, comedy and stories of history.
Reality is an very interesting, beautiful, and enthralling place -- I can't help but feel that many are simply missing out on.
Not just the raw facts, and pure knowledge of science either, but the genius of philosophy, and the robustness, drama, absurdity, comedy and stories of history.
Reality is an very interesting, beautiful, and enthralling place -- I can't help but feel that many are simply missing out on.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 13, 2009, 03:16:23 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 13, 2009, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Reality is an very interesting, beautiful, and enthralling place -- I can't help but feel that many are simply missing out on.Welcome to being an atheist.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 03:19:59 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 03:19:59 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Welcome to being an atheist. ;)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Kodanshi on April 13, 2009, 06:48:20 PM
Post by: Kodanshi on April 13, 2009, 06:48:20 PM
I have issues with which the Hebrew peoples have twisted the defeat of people they have ‘conquered’ to justify their waging war against them. Like using Philistine as a synonym for uncultured thick git, or mistranslating Babel (gateway/door of god) as ‘confusion’, or the way they came up with the story about Esau selling his birthright to retcon their war against the Edomites.
Bit of a rant, but your use of ‘philistine’ in a pejorative sense set me off.
Bit of a rant, but your use of ‘philistine’ in a pejorative sense set me off.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 07:33:33 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 07:33:33 PM
The Philistines were probably a fictional people anyway, but I apologize to their memory if they were not.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Recusant on April 13, 2009, 10:26:41 PM
Post by: Recusant on April 13, 2009, 10:26:41 PM
Quote from: "PipeBox"http://blogs4brownback.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/heliocentrism-is-an-atheist-doctrine/ sporting such profound, malicious ignorance...
Quote from: "McQ"... I kept hoping it was an "Onion-esque" satire or something.
The first link (fixedearth) seems sincere, as hard as it is to believe. I'm not entirely convinced, but there are some incredibly "faithful" people who seem to be very willing to discard any portions of what we've learned through science in favor of their religious texts.
The second (blogs4brownback) is not, at least according to one entry in the comments section of the "The World is Flat" part of the blog:
Quote from: "WordPress Admin"With regard to recent press reports about WordPress hosting a blog entitled “Blogs 4 Brownbackâ€.
WordPress has received some worrying comments with regard to this blog through our admin site. The “Blogs 4 Brownback†site is a parody. Please do not forward any comments with regard to racist language, personal abuse or civil action suits to WordPress as we are not responsible for the content on the blog, merely as a host for the site.
Please use the “Blogs 4 Brownback†blog as it was intented: for entertainment purposes only.
Thank you,
The WordPress Team.
Comment by WordPress Admin â€" June 18, 2007 @ 4:47 am
That hasn't kept both Christians and non-believers from commenting on it in all sincerity.
As Poe's Law implies: "... it is hard to tell fake fundamentalism from the real thing, since they may both espouse equally extreme beliefs."
Quote from: "Hitsumei"The Philistines were probably a fictional people anyway...
Interesting. I had not heard this. What is your source? It's generally agreed that the present day Palestinians are not the descendants of the Philistines. Still, as far as I knew, there were people inhabiting the area at one time who were known as Philistines, who are commonly associated with the "Sea Peoples" mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 10:33:40 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 13, 2009, 10:33:40 PM
Quote from: "Recusant"Interesting. I had not heard this. What is your source? It's generally agreed that the present day Palestinians are not the descendants of the Philistines. Still, as far as I knew, there were people inhabiting the area at one time who were known as Philistines, who are commonly associated with the "Sea Peoples" mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions.
The only source of their existence is Hebrew oral tradition, and the word literally means "invaders" in Hebrew. They just seemed to be an antagonistic people for Jewish heroes to thwart.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Recusant on April 13, 2009, 11:40:07 PM
Post by: Recusant on April 13, 2009, 11:40:07 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"The only source of their existence is Hebrew oral tradition...
Ah. I'm not quite ready to totally discount oral tradition as a source of historical information, as long as it has some corroboration from other sources. For instance, the Iliad is oral tradition, yet there seems to be archaeological evidence that some of the events described actually took place. I would give the same credence to the Hebrew oral tradition, given archaeological evidence for the existence of the people known in that tradition as "Philistines:"
Quote from: "Brita Lorentzen, Cornell University,"Much like the Israelites, the Philistines were an immigrant culture which appeared in the Levant at the beginning of the Iron Age I period (c.a. 1200, B.C.) The Bible first mentions this culture in Genesis 10:14, stating that the Philistines came from “Caphtorim,†which scholars now believe to be the island of Crete or another island in the Aegean (Dothan, Anch. 1). Several pieces of archaeological evidence support this claim. For instance, motifs in Philistine pottery, such as spirals, fish, and birds come from the Mycenaean culture in the Aegean (Trude Dothan 198-199, 203). The material culture from Philistine cultic practices also implies an Aegean origin. Hearths, which are connected with cultic shrines, have been found in the middle of Philistine structures and are Aegean in origin (Dothan, Anch. 5). Additionally, at Ashdod, archaeologists found a ceramic figure of a seated female deity, which is indicative of Aegean cultic practices (Dothan, Anch. 7-8). Likewise, the Philistine burial practice of using rock-cut chamber tombs was also a burial practice of the Mycenaean culture in the Aegean (Dothan, Anch. 8).
Egyptian texts give further background information on the Philistines’ origins by associating them with the Sea Peoples, who left the Aegean during a general eastern migration at the end of the Late Bronze Age (Dothan, Anch. 1). Records in the mortuary temple of Rameses III tell of a great battle between the ships of the Sea Peoples and the Egyptians (Dothan, Anch. 1). Amongst the scenes of Rameses’ great victory, the Egyptians name the Philistines as part of the Sea Peoples (Dothan and Dothan 21-22). Another Egyptian text, the Harris Papyrus I, corroborates this evidence, naming the Philistines as one of the Sea Peoples as well (Dothan, Anch. 2). Thus, scholars believe that the Philistines were part of a group of Aegean migrants, who, after their defeat in Egypt, settled on the coastal plain of southern Palestine (Dothan, Anch. 1-2).
Dothan, Trude. The Philistines and Their Material Culture. New Haven:
Yale University Press, 1982.
Dothan, Trude, and Moshe Dothan. People of the Sea: The Search for
the Philistines. New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1992.
Dothan, Trude. “The Philistines.†The Anchor Bible Dictionary. Ed. D.N. Freedman.
CD-ROM. New York: Doubleday, 1992.
(Quoted from http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/bel9/index.html (http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/bel9/index.html) )
While it may be true that the name "Philistine" is anachronistic as it appears in the bible, and an appellation of Hebrew origin(?), there does seem to be evidence from outside the biblical tradition for the existence of a people known as "Philistines."
Actually, according to the Online Etymological Dictionary (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Philistine):
"Philistine:
O.T. people of coastal Palestine, who made war on the Israelites, c.1340, from O.Fr. Philistin, from L.L. Philistinus, from Late Gk. Philistinoi, from Heb. P'lishtim, "people of P'lesheth" ("Philistia"); cf. Akkad. Palastu, Egyptian Palusata; the word probably is the people's name for itself."
All this does not refute your statement that they probably were fictional, since in fact the bible is indeed oral tradition, and therefore suspect as history. As a self-confessed barbarian, and therefore one with a natural interest in the subject, I just wanted a little clarification for my own edification. I really knew very little about the Philistines before you brought the subject up, and am pleased to have learned a few things (I hope.) Thank you for providing the incentive for that.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 14, 2009, 08:38:45 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 14, 2009, 08:38:45 AM
The Philistines find their home in oral history and story, that is what we know about them, and the scant archeological evidence by no means establishes their antagonistic place in Hebrew legend. Exodus is recorded in oral history, only we are lucky enough to have the Egyptian contemporaneous accounts of those events, and we know that it didn't take place. They have tied to name of a particular Mediterranean tribe to the Israelites, who slowly moved to the Nile as a result of famine over the run of a millennium. There is no record of their being enslaved, or any of the events of exodus taking place.
Oral tradition is not trustworthy for accuracy, and within groups that use oral tradition, accuracy is not even expected. The Philistines are quite loosely tied with the "sea people", a group of seafaring raiders that were conveniently in the area, and causing trouble around the time the stories date to. Again, the Egpytians, the only group to have had a written language at the time, never referred to them as "Philistines", but referred to them as "the foreign-countries (or 'peoples') of the sea".
The region "Philistia" is again, merely called that by the Hebrews through their oral tradition, and was an area occupied by the Canaanites.
I don't discount that oral history is surely based on something that mildly, or vaguely resembles the stories, but I think that saying that the Philistine's existed based on what we know about ancient history all because they could correspond to some group, is like saying that Zeus existed because he could have been based on some warrior or king.
Oral tradition is not trustworthy for accuracy, and within groups that use oral tradition, accuracy is not even expected. The Philistines are quite loosely tied with the "sea people", a group of seafaring raiders that were conveniently in the area, and causing trouble around the time the stories date to. Again, the Egpytians, the only group to have had a written language at the time, never referred to them as "Philistines", but referred to them as "the foreign-countries (or 'peoples') of the sea".
The region "Philistia" is again, merely called that by the Hebrews through their oral tradition, and was an area occupied by the Canaanites.
I don't discount that oral history is surely based on something that mildly, or vaguely resembles the stories, but I think that saying that the Philistine's existed based on what we know about ancient history all because they could correspond to some group, is like saying that Zeus existed because he could have been based on some warrior or king.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 28, 2009, 04:42:34 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 28, 2009, 04:42:34 AM
Quote from: "McQ"Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Does not matter, scientific method or no scientific method, with the instruments at the time, flat world is all that made sense based on observable evidence.
That's false, it is trivial to prove that the world is a sphere, and could have been done at any point in history, and was done nearly two thousand years before Columbus, as I explained.
That the world is flat is merely intuitive, and is the conclusion people that never actually looked into it reached, and like the vast majority of intuitive guesses made about reality, was wrong.
OK, I said I'd stay out of this, but now I'm finding this turning in the direction of either trolling, or a complete prank. The other alternative is that Maofgod is serious. That is the hardest to believe of the three, especially in light of the blatant historical lies in the posts regarding Columbus, round vs. Flat Earth, and then saying "it doesn't matter" when shown to be in error (among several others).
No offense, but your response was way out of line mod. If I am wrong, their is a way to go about it. As it so happens, you missed the real point. My point is that we are in the science of the day. I recant that science did not believe the world to be round back in the day. But they did not know for sure if it was not flat. Some people "believed" it to be round (based on some evidence perhaps?), some did not , but not until Columbus sailed the seas did they know for sure. There was no observable evidence that people could look at to conclusively tell that the earth was round. All they saw was a horizon. Some hypothesized, obviously Columbus had to hypothesize before he ventured out to actually prove it.
If science knew everything from beginning to end, then they would be no science, do you not admit that yourself?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 28, 2009, 05:05:03 AM
Post by: McQ on April 28, 2009, 05:05:03 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"No offense, but your response was way out of line mod. If I am wrong, their is a way to go about it. As it so happens, you missed the real point. My point is that we are in the science of the day. I recant that science did not believe the world to be round back in the day. But they did not know for sure if it was not flat. Some people "believed" it to be round (based on some evidence perhaps?), some did not , but not until Columbus sailed the seas did they know for sure. There was no observable evidence that people could look at to conclusively tell that the earth was round. All they saw was a horizon. Some hypothesized, obviously Columbus had to hypothesize before he ventured out to actually prove it.
If science knew everything from beginning to end, then they would be no science, do you not admit that yourself?
Man-of-god, first, use the quotes feature correctly. Second, I took no offense to your post just now, but will disagree that I was in any way out of line. You were not only demonstrably wrong, but also perpetuating what you must know to be wrong, or are just too lazy to look up. How many times do you need to be told the Columbus did not discover that the world is round?
I repeat my assertion: You must either be trolling, pranking, or serious. If you are serious, then you need an education in history and science. If one of the first two, then your time on this forum will be short lived.
As for missing your point, I just re-read it in your response above. I must be missing at least some point you're making, but it's hard to tell, since you haven't actually explained whatever your point is. And your final question makes no sense whatsoever. Science does not now or ever claim to know everything from beginning to end.
Do some homework, and don't waste other peoples' time with things that you could have looked up on Google for yourself.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 28, 2009, 02:26:57 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 28, 2009, 02:26:57 PM
Where is the facepalm smiley? 
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 28, 2009, 04:21:11 PM
Post by: McQ on April 28, 2009, 04:21:11 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Where is the facepalm smiley?
No kidding. We have got to get one of those.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 28, 2009, 04:41:45 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 28, 2009, 04:41:45 PM
Quote from: "McQ"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"No offense, but your response was way out of line mod. If I am wrong, their is a way to go about it. As it so happens, you missed the real point. My point is that we are in the science of the day. I recant that science did not believe the world to be round back in the day. But they did not know for sure if it was not flat. Some people "believed" it to be round (based on some evidence perhaps?), some did not , but not until Columbus sailed the seas did they know for sure. There was no observable evidence that people could look at to conclusively tell that the earth was round. All they saw was a horizon. Some hypothesized, obviously Columbus had to hypothesize before he ventured out to actually prove it.
If science knew everything from beginning to end, then they would be no science, do you not admit that yourself?
Man-of-god, first, use the quotes feature correctly. Second, I took no offense to your post just now, but will disagree that I was in any way out of line. You were not only demonstrably wrong, but also perpetuating what you must know to be wrong, or are just too lazy to look up. How many times do you need to be told the Columbus did not discover that the world is round?
I repeat my assertion: You must either be trolling, pranking, or serious. If you are serious, then you need an education in history and science. If one of the first two, then your time on this forum will be short lived.
As for missing your point, I just re-read it in your response above. I must be missing at least some point you're making, but it's hard to tell, since you haven't actually explained whatever your point is. And your final question makes no sense whatsoever. Science does not now or ever claim to know everything from beginning to end.
Do some homework, and don't waste other peoples' time with things that you could have looked up on Google for yourself.
Fair enough. I am not explaining clearly. First let me clarify the facts, Magellan verified the world was round. Eratosthenes measured the radius 1700 BC. Before Magellan though, people still was not positive that you could not fall off the "edge." Sounds silly in hind site, in their time it made perfect sense. Magellans journey was still very much a necessity, not just for the laymen, but for science in general. It provided the conclusive evidence needed.
My point is that we did not know everything then, and we do not know everything now. We only know, what we know. Its unscientific to conclude that evolution is fact, or that the Bible is fiction. Evolution takes faith too you know, unless someone has observed a species evolving into a separate species? Did you know that evolution uses more catastrophic events to explain its theory that of the entire Bible? Evolution needs as much faith, if not more then that of the Bible. When your indoctrinated though, it becomes second nature.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Recusant on April 28, 2009, 07:01:57 PM
Post by: Recusant on April 28, 2009, 07:01:57 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Evolution takes faith too you know, unless someone has observed a species evolving into a separate species? Did you know that evolution uses more catastrophic events to explain its theory that of the entire Bible? Evolution needs as much faith, if not more then that of the Bible. When your indoctrinated though, it becomes second nature.
Willful ignorance, much? The theory of evolution is based on observable facts (http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/holmes.html). I give you one example, but there are many.
By 'catastrophic events' I gather that you are referring to what are known as extinction events (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-extinction-events.htm). These events are recorded in the fossil record, and in fact do not 'explain' the theory of evolution at all. Where did you get the idea that there is a large element of catastrophism in the theory of evolution? Please give sources for this idea.
There is profound irony in this common practice of creationist bible-thumpers; accusing science of being a system of indoctrination. It's mildly amusing, and exposes a deep misunderstanding of what science actually is, but it gets old quickly.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 28, 2009, 09:51:07 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 28, 2009, 09:51:07 PM
Quote from: "Recusant"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Evolution takes faith too you know, unless someone has observed a species evolving into a separate species? Did you know that evolution uses more catastrophic events to explain its theory that of the entire Bible? Evolution needs as much faith, if not more then that of the Bible. When your indoctrinated though, it becomes second nature.
Willful ignorance, much? The theory of evolution is based on observable facts (http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/holmes.html). I give you one example, but there are many.
By 'catastrophic events' I gather that you are referring to what are known as extinction events (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-extinction-events.htm). These events are recorded in the fossil record, and in fact do not 'explain' the theory of evolution at all. Where did you get the idea that there is a large element of catastrophism in the theory of evolution? Please give sources for this idea.
Viral evolution? Fist of all explain how this is a benefit? Second, in order for evolution to occur, there must be new genetic information. Where is the new genetic information in viral mutation?
Yes fossil record, indicates catastrophe, the Bible says only one ever occured that wiped out all life on the planet. Evolution has to come up w/ at least 5 different catastrophic events to explain mass extinction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction)
Here is an entertaining video about your belief.. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3318/01.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3318/01.html)
QuoteThere is profound irony in this common practice of creationist bible-thumpers; accusing science of being a system of indoctrination. It's mildly amusing, and exposes a deep misunderstanding of what science actually is, but it gets old quickly.
Science and evolution is not the same thing. You heard that already I am sure. Evolution is a belief, and their is no observable evidence.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 28, 2009, 10:33:30 PM
Post by: McQ on April 28, 2009, 10:33:30 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Viral evolution? Fist of all explain how this is a benefit? Second, in order for evolution to occur, there must be new genetic information. Where is the new genetic information in viral mutation?
Yes fossil record, indicates catastrophe, the Bible says only one ever occured that wiped out all life on the planet. Evolution has to come up w/ at least 5 different catastrophic events to explain mass extinction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction)
Here is an entertaining video about your belief.. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3318/01.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3318/01.html)
Science and evolution is not the same thing. You heard that already I am sure. Evolution is a belief, and their is no observable evidence.
Man-of-god, here is the problem I see. You know almost zero about evolution, don't you? You are spouting stuff right out of the ID/creationist books and web pages. Have you ever taken at least a biology course? How about genetics? It is seriously insulting to have someone like you, who has no idea what he is talking about, try to tell others about their fields of expertise. It's also horribly sad and yet amusing at the same time. You're so wrong as to be almost absurd.
That's why I hope you're not serious about this. Because if you are, then you are, indeed, practicing willful ignorance, as has been mentioned.
Do not confuse what I am stating as a personal, ad hominem attack. I am stating facts about your level of misunderstanding about evolution, science, and probably even the bible.
You really need to quit while your behind. Really.
Additionally, we need to get this thread back onto the subject of contradictions in the bible. Evolution belongs in the science section.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 28, 2009, 11:41:01 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on April 28, 2009, 11:41:01 PM
Since when did a mutation require new information and not simply different information?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 28, 2009, 11:50:18 PM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 28, 2009, 11:50:18 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "McQ"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"No offense, but your response was way out of line mod. If I am wrong, their is a way to go about it. As it so happens, you missed the real point. My point is that we are in the science of the day. I recant that science did not believe the world to be round back in the day. But they did not know for sure if it was not flat. Some people "believed" it to be round (based on some evidence perhaps?), some did not , but not until Columbus sailed the seas did they know for sure. There was no observable evidence that people could look at to conclusively tell that the earth was round. All they saw was a horizon. Some hypothesized, obviously Columbus had to hypothesize before he ventured out to actually prove it.
If science knew everything from beginning to end, then they would be no science, do you not admit that yourself?
Man-of-god, first, use the quotes feature correctly. Second, I took no offense to your post just now, but will disagree that I was in any way out of line. You were not only demonstrably wrong, but also perpetuating what you must know to be wrong, or are just too lazy to look up. How many times do you need to be told the Columbus did not discover that the world is round?
I repeat my assertion: You must either be trolling, pranking, or serious. If you are serious, then you need an education in history and science. If one of the first two, then your time on this forum will be short lived.
As for missing your point, I just re-read it in your response above. I must be missing at least some point you're making, but it's hard to tell, since you haven't actually explained whatever your point is. And your final question makes no sense whatsoever. Science does not now or ever claim to know everything from beginning to end.
Do some homework, and don't waste other peoples' time with things that you could have looked up on Google for yourself.
Fair enough. I am not explaining clearly. First let me clarify the facts, Magellan verified the world was round. Eratosthenes measured the radius 1700 BC. Before Magellan though, people still was not positive that you could not fall off the "edge." Sounds silly in hind site, in their time it made perfect sense. Magellans journey was still very much a necessity, not just for the laymen, but for science in general. It provided the conclusive evidence needed.
My point is that we did not know everything then, and we do not know everything now. We only know, what we know. Its unscientific to conclude that evolution is fact, or that the Bible is fiction. Evolution takes faith too you know, unless someone has observed a species evolving into a separate species? Did you know that evolution uses more catastrophic events to explain its theory that of the entire Bible? Evolution needs as much faith, if not more then that of the Bible. When your indoctrinated though, it becomes second nature.
What you need to understand is that Columbus had absolutely nothing to do with establishing the world as a sphere, or anything even remotely related to it. Columbus was looking for a passage to India, and argued that the earth was smaller than it was estimated to be, and he was wrong. This is why Native Americans are called "Indians", because he was too much of a tool to admit that he was wrong.
That he has anything to do with the establishing of the earth as round if entirely legend, and just something repeated in true memetic form, that survives in "pop knowledge", along with human beings only using 10% of their brains, and suicidal lemmings.
In fact the navigation technology of Columbus' day relied on the stars, and the curvature of the earth. Columbus had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Recusant on April 28, 2009, 11:56:37 PM
Post by: Recusant on April 28, 2009, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: "McQ"Evolution belongs in the science section.
I agree, this discussion has gotten off topic. I don't hold out much hope that it'll be productive, but I'll start a new thread (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3172) in the science section devoted to Man-ofGod's attempt to critique the theory of evolution.
Thanks McQ, for your timely effort to maintain some semblance of proper placement of subjects.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on April 29, 2009, 12:05:47 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on April 29, 2009, 12:05:47 AM
For a neat example of some related species thats intermediates have not died off, and can thus breed with an unbroken chain of living species, but not each other, see Ring Species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species).
As for the information question, this requires that you understand some information theory as well as some computer language, and how the genome stores information.
Dawkins puts it pretty simply that if you imagine a genome like a computer hard drive, and the same bit information system, then in theory, the storage system has far more potential information than it has information. New genes are generated from genetic mutation, which is a kind of copying error when a gene is being copies.
Basically, how specific bodies are made, and which phenotypes will present themselves is governed by things like natural selection, sexual selection, artificial, luck, and such, but the genes by which these forces can act upon come about quite randomly through mutation, and genetic drift.
As for the information question, this requires that you understand some information theory as well as some computer language, and how the genome stores information.
Dawkins puts it pretty simply that if you imagine a genome like a computer hard drive, and the same bit information system, then in theory, the storage system has far more potential information than it has information. New genes are generated from genetic mutation, which is a kind of copying error when a gene is being copies.
Basically, how specific bodies are made, and which phenotypes will present themselves is governed by things like natural selection, sexual selection, artificial, luck, and such, but the genes by which these forces can act upon come about quite randomly through mutation, and genetic drift.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 29, 2009, 12:54:08 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 29, 2009, 12:54:08 AM
Quote from: "McQ"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Viral evolution? Fist of all explain how this is a benefit? Second, in order for evolution to occur, there must be new genetic information. Where is the new genetic information in viral mutation?
Yes fossil record, indicates catastrophe, the Bible says only one ever occured that wiped out all life on the planet. Evolution has to come up w/ at least 5 different catastrophic events to explain mass extinction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction)
Here is an entertaining video about your belief.. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3318/01.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3318/01.html)
Science and evolution is not the same thing. You heard that already I am sure. Evolution is a belief, and their is no observable evidence.
Man-of-god, here is the problem I see. You know almost zero about evolution, don't you? You are spouting stuff right out of the ID/creationist books and web pages. Have you ever taken at least a biology course? How about genetics? It is seriously insulting to have someone like you, who has no idea what he is talking about, try to tell others about their fields of expertise. It's also horribly sad and yet amusing at the same time. You're so wrong as to be almost absurd.
That's why I hope you're not serious about this. Because if you are, then you are, indeed, practicing willful ignorance, as has been mentioned.
Do not confuse what I am stating as a personal, ad hominem attack. I am stating facts about your level of misunderstanding about evolution, science, and probably even the bible.
You really need to quit while your behind. Really.
Additionally, we need to get this thread back onto the subject of contradictions in the bible. Evolution belongs in the science section.
I agree, we need to get back to the topic. I think you will find that I was trying to avoid this discussion back on the third page of this thread.
It is obvious that you get offended when your world view is challenged. You automatically assume that what I say is incorrect w/ out asking for clarification or with out even "setting the record straight."
I had made 2 points that you grossly overlooked based on the lame excuse that I do not understand evolution. I never said I was not a laymen, but if your an expert, then you need to point out where I went wrong. That is the whole point of debate. You want me to accept what you been taught as fact and get upset when I do not. It is obvious that I am challenging the fundamentals of your belief. It is also obvious that you do not want to admit that it is a belief.
This is why I say people have been indoctrinated into evolution. All branches of science today are taught that evolution is fact when its not, and therefore do their research through the framework of the evolution theory. Since the mantra is that evolution is fact, then anything that challenges this establishment is not allowed (your attitude to this discussion is evidence of this), despite the enigmas that plague this theory ( for example, polonium halos). Evolution is a business, the sooner you realize that the sooner you realize that its not about what the majority thinks.
Realize that when I talk about the origins as it relates to evolution, weather it be on a cosmic level or a biological level, it all stems from the basis that biological evolution is true. If their is no evolution their is no mass extinction as modern science defines it. If their is no mass distinction then dating via the geologic column is false. If this is false, the estimated age of the earth could be false. If the age of the earth is false then the theory on how it was created may also be false.. etc... Do you see how important biologic evolution is to modern science?
So yes, my definition of evolution is a lot broader then yours, because for me, all modern science its built under the evolution umbrella.
QuoteThat's why I hope you're not serious about this. Because if you are, then you are, indeed, practicing willful ignorance, as has been mentioned.
BTW, if you look back on this thread, this willful ignorance you speak of is a two way street. I could easily get as upset as you and complain how people bring up stupid disputes about the Bible with out even taking the time to find out for themselves. Like the contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2? come on, 2nd grade English is all you need to understand that. People can literally go on google and get these answers but do not. But instead of insulting someone and telling them to do a google search, I figure its better to explain it instead. Isn't that the point of a message board, exchange of information no matter how ridiculous the information might be? Most of the contradictions that atheist bring up is ridiculous to me just like some of the points I bring up may seem ridiculous to you. Help me understand and I will help you understand. Even if we do not agree, we can always agree to disagree. But there should be no question about what I accept as true and what you accept as true before it gets to this point.
And again, I am all for moving the science portion of this thread to the science forum.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Recusant on April 29, 2009, 01:11:13 AM
Post by: Recusant on April 29, 2009, 01:11:13 AM
Man-ofGod vs Evolution, etc.
by Recusant » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:31 pm
Re: Contridictions in the Bible
by Man-ofGod » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:54 pm
Meh. I tried.
To McQ: Feel free to delete this post when and if you split the threads.
by Recusant » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:31 pm
Re: Contridictions in the Bible
by Man-ofGod » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:54 pm
Meh. I tried.
To McQ: Feel free to delete this post when and if you split the threads.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: VanReal on April 29, 2009, 01:35:24 AM
Post by: VanReal on April 29, 2009, 01:35:24 AM
Quote from: "Recusant"Man-ofGod vs Evolution, etc.
by Recusant » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:31 pm
Re: Contridictions in the Bible
by Man-ofGod » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:54 pm
Meh. I tried.
To McQ: Feel free to delete this post when and if you split the threads.
Hehe, but wait, didn't he agree to get back on topic? Good try.
Back to contridictions in the bible, which I never debate because I don't know the bible and quite frankly don't want to have scriptures given to me, I guess I am not sure why when people say "but what about the contridictions in the bible" christians don't just answer with "because it was written by men and men are fallible". No one ever seems to say that god wrote the bible, and I never hear anyone claim that men didn't write it. Why do they even argue about this then? It's the account of men and there are tons of studies on how fallible the human mind and memory is when trying to recount events. On the flip side, non-christians point out contradictions knowing they will be told some excuse or explanation that either makes it not an inconsistency , why it was written that way or what it really means.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 29, 2009, 01:38:27 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 29, 2009, 01:38:27 AM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"For a neat example of some related species thats intermediates have not died off, and can thus breed with an unbroken chain of living species, but not each other, see Ring Species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species).
As for the information question, this requires that you understand some information theory as well as some computer language, and how the genome stores information.
Dawkins puts it pretty simply that if you imagine a genome like a computer hard drive, and the same bit information system, then in theory, the storage system has far more potential information than it has information. New genes are generated from genetic mutation, which is a kind of copying error when a gene is being copies.
Basically, how specific bodies are made, and which phenotypes will present themselves is governed by things like natural selection, sexual selection, artificial, luck, and such, but the genes by which these forces can act upon come about quite randomly through mutation, and genetic drift.
With respect to the moderators decision to move thread to science forum, I will respond there. Thanks.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 29, 2009, 01:47:18 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on April 29, 2009, 01:47:18 AM
Quote from: "VanReal"Quote from: "Recusant"Man-ofGod vs Evolution, etc.
by Recusant » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:31 pm
Re: Contridictions in the Bible
by Man-ofGod » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:54 pm
Meh. I tried.
To McQ: Feel free to delete this post when and if you split the threads.
Hehe, but wait, didn't he agree to get back on topic? Good try.
Back to contridictions in the bible, which I never debate because I don't know the bible and quite frankly don't want to have scriptures given to me, I guess I am not sure why when people say "but what about the contridictions in the bible" christians don't just answer with "because it was written by men and men are fallible". No one ever seems to say that god wrote the bible, and I never hear anyone claim that men didn't write it. Why do they even argue about this then? It's the account of men and there are tons of studies on how fallible the human mind and memory is when trying to recount events. On the flip side, non-christians point out contradictions knowing they will be told some excuse or explanation that either makes it not an inconsistency , why it was written that way or what it really means.
Men are fallible, and the Bible is very clear on this point. In fact the only person who did not sin in all of the Bible is Jesus. But that is what makes the Bible amazing, thats the miracle, that fallible men wrote infallible documentation.
Quote2 Peter 1:21
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. But the content itself is evidence of the infallibility of the Bible.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: VanReal on April 29, 2009, 02:07:41 AM
Post by: VanReal on April 29, 2009, 02:07:41 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Men are fallible, and the Bible is very clear on this point. In fact the only person who did not sin in all of the Bible is Jesus. But that is what makes the Bible amazing, thats the miracle, that fallible men wrote infallible documentation.Quote2 Peter 1:21
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. But the content itself is evidence of the infallibility of the Bible.
I stand corrected. I didn't realize that the argument was that there are no contradictions or inconsistencies in the bible and that it is indeed infallible.
For you Curio
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.threadbombing.com%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F54%2Fcat_FACEPALM.jpg&hash=9527a6a29a82253e742f43ef099f58df6b14aa66) (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=2799)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 29, 2009, 02:21:50 AM
Post by: PipeBox on April 29, 2009, 02:21:50 AM
OK, MOG (dunno if you've ever played Final Fantasy games, but, well, I just saw the acronym in you name and decided I had to use it 
), you clearly are asking the tough questions because you don't want to be "mislead" into believing evolution. That's fine, but the tough questions entail tough answers, and you really have to understand the underlying basics.
Evolution, at its most basic, is just descent, under pressure of natural selection, with modification (mutation). Don't just read it, understand it. Now, let's look at DNA. DNA is "read" (reacts with) by special special proteins, that create more proteins in turn. The actual process is very complicated, but even creation scientists can observe it if they wish. Now, if the DNA is altered, the proteins will likely be altered, too. The vast majority of our DNA is non-coding junk, it has special chemical modifiers that prevent it from being "read", and these unread sections will not produce proteins at all. Most mutations are harmless and do nothing for this reason. There are many types of mutations, though: deletions, insertions (new information), frame shifts (I'll explain in a minute), and plain ol' duplications (harmless in most circumstances, but gives an organism more room to be mutated without dying, so while it helps by allowing possible benefits to manifest, it is a benefit in itself as it prevents important stuff from being destroyed).
Natural selection is pretty straightforward. Everyone, even creationists, can observe natural selection via unnatural selection (selective breeding) used on crops or in breeding dogs or cattle. If you only breed the tallest corn stalks over many generations, the end result is taller corn. Do the same for bigger kernels, and then only yellow kernels, and you end up with a far different strain that you see in the wild. This is done in only a very short time, too, demonstrating how constrained breeding can quickly differentiate things over just a few generations. As a reminder selective breeding applied to humans is called eugenics, we know, and it isn't necessarily a good thing because it is acting directly against the environment. That is, we're harming the genepool. This isn't true only of humans, though, since anything we apply selective breeding to, we do in spite of the environment. Bananas no longer have seeds, transplantation being the method used to create more trees. Single viral strains have nearly wiped out the fruit because of this. A chihuahua without people to feed it is a grossly inadequate dog that will likely parish. Nonetheless, it's all more proof that selective pressures, environmental or not, can change life forms, and the ethics of selective breeding of other animals we can discuss elsewhere.
Back to genetics in regards to mutations, I'll briefly go over frame shifts and cover duplications in more detail. The term "deletion" is used whenever an entire gene is wiped out, from stop codon to stop codon (those make the proteins that read DNA stop reading, and define the entirety of the protein produced). Frame shift, on the other hand, describes the deletion or insertion of single base pairs. Base pairs are coded for by the reading protein 3 at a time, like this:
ACA GAT CCA GCA GCA ...
Each one results in a different "protein piece," which is actually just another amino acid (those things are handy). Now, if you add or delete a single base pair, the protein will now read:
CAG ATC CAG CAG CA. ...
or TAC AGA TCC AGC AGC A.. ...
Which, depending on where it falls in a gene, can alter a lot or a little. If a base pair is added in the last three, almost no difference will occur. The first three, though, and the resulting protein will be totally different (probably, there are sequences which would be unaffected). Substitutions may also happen, which doesn't involve adding or subtracting base pairs, just changing one. Depending on the sequence left behind, a different amino acid may be coded, and the protein may be altered, or nothing may happen. Keep in mind that if any of this happens in a deactivated portion of the DNA, nothing happens. And if it happens in a duplicated region of active DNA, then, at the least, the organism is unlikely to die from a lack of something. Duplications can actually give room for this "new information" to arise, a safe(r) testing ground, in a manner of speaking.
Now, understand that there is no second, uncorruptable, DNA copy for total parity. There is nothing, natural at least, to guard how much an organism may change over time. Now, keeping in mind how long it takes these powerful changes to accrue and be selected for, tell me now what makes it impossible for an animal's legs to get a little longer, and its arms a little shorter, and its jaw a little wider. What is there, then, to prevent it from getting a little less hairy and a little smarter? And again and again? Is it really that hard to see, that with a lot of very small changes, things will eventually look totally different? Let's say you have a screen 1600 X 1200 pixels, and you can only recolor one pixel at a time. Is there anything that will eventually prevent the screen from being a completely different color? So, look at our ancestral apes and tell me you still don't see how it could have happened.
97-98% of our DNA matches that of a chimp's. We have 16 ERVs (endogenous retroviruses, that is, deactivated viral matter present in our genome) that we share with chimps! We're not telling you this because we want to be primates, we're telling you this because we are primates. This is confirmed genetically, obviously, but it is also confirmed from the bottom up by examining our traits! Our physical form is so closely related: same number of teeth (and incisors, canines, premolars, and molars, to boot!), tetrapoidal (possessing 4 limbs), body-wide hair follicles, lungs and heart enclosed inside a ribcage, backbone supporting 12 cranial nerves, skull with dual enclosed eye-sockets and a single temporal fenestra, and so, so much more.
Demonstrate that evolution is impossible and you can rewrite the science books. But we're seeing apparent speciation, even now! Living ring species that can no longer interbreed, bacteria that can digest nylon, a chemical that did not exist 50 years ago! Even the need to get more flu shots is evidence of viral evolution. You asked earlier what the benefit of viruses evolving. The benefit is that they continue to exist, because obviously if they didn't evolve they would cease to exist. The benefit is theirs, not ours. Their evolution to suit their environment clearly happens, and evolution just explains how. If you want to ask why (not how) they might evolve to thwart our vaccines, then you might ask the same of God.
Evolution, though, is not an attack on God. Sure, it isn't compatible with the allegorical Genesis (and neither is the Sears Tower, far taller than Bable ever was), but even as a Christian I knew it was allegory. Evolution may not make you feel special, either, like you would if your lineage was specially created in opposition to nature. Neither is a requisite for it being true. It happens. The Theory of Evolution describes the mechanism we actually observe, and it can be used with brilliant accuracy to make predictions throughout biology. Please, take a strong interest in finding out the facts. I will assist you with any questions, you have.
), you clearly are asking the tough questions because you don't want to be "mislead" into believing evolution. That's fine, but the tough questions entail tough answers, and you really have to understand the underlying basics.Evolution, at its most basic, is just descent, under pressure of natural selection, with modification (mutation). Don't just read it, understand it. Now, let's look at DNA. DNA is "read" (reacts with) by special special proteins, that create more proteins in turn. The actual process is very complicated, but even creation scientists can observe it if they wish. Now, if the DNA is altered, the proteins will likely be altered, too. The vast majority of our DNA is non-coding junk, it has special chemical modifiers that prevent it from being "read", and these unread sections will not produce proteins at all. Most mutations are harmless and do nothing for this reason. There are many types of mutations, though: deletions, insertions (new information), frame shifts (I'll explain in a minute), and plain ol' duplications (harmless in most circumstances, but gives an organism more room to be mutated without dying, so while it helps by allowing possible benefits to manifest, it is a benefit in itself as it prevents important stuff from being destroyed).
Natural selection is pretty straightforward. Everyone, even creationists, can observe natural selection via unnatural selection (selective breeding) used on crops or in breeding dogs or cattle. If you only breed the tallest corn stalks over many generations, the end result is taller corn. Do the same for bigger kernels, and then only yellow kernels, and you end up with a far different strain that you see in the wild. This is done in only a very short time, too, demonstrating how constrained breeding can quickly differentiate things over just a few generations. As a reminder selective breeding applied to humans is called eugenics, we know, and it isn't necessarily a good thing because it is acting directly against the environment. That is, we're harming the genepool. This isn't true only of humans, though, since anything we apply selective breeding to, we do in spite of the environment. Bananas no longer have seeds, transplantation being the method used to create more trees. Single viral strains have nearly wiped out the fruit because of this. A chihuahua without people to feed it is a grossly inadequate dog that will likely parish. Nonetheless, it's all more proof that selective pressures, environmental or not, can change life forms, and the ethics of selective breeding of other animals we can discuss elsewhere.
Back to genetics in regards to mutations, I'll briefly go over frame shifts and cover duplications in more detail. The term "deletion" is used whenever an entire gene is wiped out, from stop codon to stop codon (those make the proteins that read DNA stop reading, and define the entirety of the protein produced). Frame shift, on the other hand, describes the deletion or insertion of single base pairs. Base pairs are coded for by the reading protein 3 at a time, like this:
ACA GAT CCA GCA GCA ...
Each one results in a different "protein piece," which is actually just another amino acid (those things are handy). Now, if you add or delete a single base pair, the protein will now read:
CAG ATC CAG CAG CA. ...
or TAC AGA TCC AGC AGC A.. ...
Which, depending on where it falls in a gene, can alter a lot or a little. If a base pair is added in the last three, almost no difference will occur. The first three, though, and the resulting protein will be totally different (probably, there are sequences which would be unaffected). Substitutions may also happen, which doesn't involve adding or subtracting base pairs, just changing one. Depending on the sequence left behind, a different amino acid may be coded, and the protein may be altered, or nothing may happen. Keep in mind that if any of this happens in a deactivated portion of the DNA, nothing happens. And if it happens in a duplicated region of active DNA, then, at the least, the organism is unlikely to die from a lack of something. Duplications can actually give room for this "new information" to arise, a safe(r) testing ground, in a manner of speaking.
Now, understand that there is no second, uncorruptable, DNA copy for total parity. There is nothing, natural at least, to guard how much an organism may change over time. Now, keeping in mind how long it takes these powerful changes to accrue and be selected for, tell me now what makes it impossible for an animal's legs to get a little longer, and its arms a little shorter, and its jaw a little wider. What is there, then, to prevent it from getting a little less hairy and a little smarter? And again and again? Is it really that hard to see, that with a lot of very small changes, things will eventually look totally different? Let's say you have a screen 1600 X 1200 pixels, and you can only recolor one pixel at a time. Is there anything that will eventually prevent the screen from being a completely different color? So, look at our ancestral apes and tell me you still don't see how it could have happened.
97-98% of our DNA matches that of a chimp's. We have 16 ERVs (endogenous retroviruses, that is, deactivated viral matter present in our genome) that we share with chimps! We're not telling you this because we want to be primates, we're telling you this because we are primates. This is confirmed genetically, obviously, but it is also confirmed from the bottom up by examining our traits! Our physical form is so closely related: same number of teeth (and incisors, canines, premolars, and molars, to boot!), tetrapoidal (possessing 4 limbs), body-wide hair follicles, lungs and heart enclosed inside a ribcage, backbone supporting 12 cranial nerves, skull with dual enclosed eye-sockets and a single temporal fenestra, and so, so much more.
Demonstrate that evolution is impossible and you can rewrite the science books. But we're seeing apparent speciation, even now! Living ring species that can no longer interbreed, bacteria that can digest nylon, a chemical that did not exist 50 years ago! Even the need to get more flu shots is evidence of viral evolution. You asked earlier what the benefit of viruses evolving. The benefit is that they continue to exist, because obviously if they didn't evolve they would cease to exist. The benefit is theirs, not ours. Their evolution to suit their environment clearly happens, and evolution just explains how. If you want to ask why (not how) they might evolve to thwart our vaccines, then you might ask the same of God.
Evolution, though, is not an attack on God. Sure, it isn't compatible with the allegorical Genesis (and neither is the Sears Tower, far taller than Bable ever was), but even as a Christian I knew it was allegory. Evolution may not make you feel special, either, like you would if your lineage was specially created in opposition to nature. Neither is a requisite for it being true. It happens. The Theory of Evolution describes the mechanism we actually observe, and it can be used with brilliant accuracy to make predictions throughout biology. Please, take a strong interest in finding out the facts. I will assist you with any questions, you have.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on April 29, 2009, 03:55:50 AM
Post by: McQ on April 29, 2009, 03:55:50 AM
Pipebox, please note that you have posted your evolution argument in the bible contradictions section. Would you mind retyping it word for word in the correct section please?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on April 29, 2009, 05:39:56 AM
Post by: PipeBox on April 29, 2009, 05:39:56 AM
Argh. Sorry, this topic has gone so far off topic.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: NearBr0ken on April 30, 2009, 08:06:42 AM
Post by: NearBr0ken on April 30, 2009, 08:06:42 AM
Quote from: "PipeBox"Evolution, at its most basic, is just descent, under pressure of natural selection, with modification (mutation). Don't just read it, understand it. Now, let's look at DNA. DNA is "read" (reacts with) by special special proteins, that create more proteins in turn...
PipeBox, I love molecular biology. I read everything I can find about it; I discuss it with friends and debate it with family...I simply can't get enough of it. Since reading your post, I have a much clearer understanding of evolution and the process of natural selection. That was an impressive post.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: MikeyV on May 01, 2009, 07:14:40 PM
Post by: MikeyV on May 01, 2009, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Men are fallible, and the Bible is very clear on this point. In fact the only person who did not sin in all of the Bible is Jesus. But that is what makes the Bible amazing, thats the miracle, that fallible men wrote infallible documentation.Quote2 Peter 1:21
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. But the content itself is evidence of the infallibility of the Bible.
This is why it's pointless to argue with the "True Believers".
His stance is "The bible is infallible because the bible says it's infallible".
When one couples that tortured circularity with the belief that god is axiomatic, no amount of argument, persuasion, evidence to the contrary, reason, or anything else will sway that person. All arguments are arguments to the periphery of the problem.
That is why we see the
emoticon used so much in these types of discussions. No argument that anyone presents actually addresses the heart of the problem.That the bible is infallible is easily disproved, PI != 3. There, done. The problem is, MOG's worldview is blinded by a false premise - that god's existence is an axiom - therefore, any argument he makes flows from this false premise. Any conclusion he reaches is therefore flawed.
Besides, by saying
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Men are fallible, and the Bible is very clear on this point. In fact the only person who did not sin in all of the Bible is Jesus.I'm not even sure MOG understands the difference between fallible (to make errors), and sin (to disobey god).
So again, what is the point of arguing with the willfully ignorant?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on May 01, 2009, 08:20:50 PM
Post by: PipeBox on May 01, 2009, 08:20:50 PM
Quote from: "NearBr0ken"PipeBox, I love molecular biology. I read everything I can find about it; I discuss it with friends and debate it with family...I simply can't get enough of it. Since reading your post, I have a much clearer understanding of evolution and the process of natural selection. That was an impressive post. :D
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: rlrose328 on May 01, 2009, 10:50:40 PM
Post by: rlrose328 on May 01, 2009, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: "MikeyV"So again, what is the point of arguing with the willfully ignorant?
I've missed you, Mikey.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 12:38:01 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: "MikeyV"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Men are fallible, and the Bible is very clear on this point. In fact the only person who did not sin in all of the Bible is Jesus. But that is what makes the Bible amazing, thats the miracle, that fallible men wrote infallible documentation.Quote2 Peter 1:21
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. But the content itself is evidence of the infallibility of the Bible.
This is why it's pointless to argue with the "True Believers".
His stance is "The bible is infallible because the bible says it's infallible".
When one couples that tortured circularity with the belief that god is axiomatic, no amount of argument, persuasion, evidence to the contrary, reason, or anything else will sway that person. All arguments are arguments to the periphery of the problem.
That is why we see the :brick: emoticon is used so much because you think something is flawed in the Bible when its not, and then when its explained you just throw your hands up, people like to be right, but you cannot argue with perfection. The Bible is that perfection, infallible, from beginning to end. So all arguments against it are shot down. Logical people will begin to consider what this means, illogical will continue to be willfully ignorant. In fact this very topic is a major theme in the Bible itself.
List of things I believe testify to the Bible's perfection,
The uniformity - despite 66 books being written by 40 different authors in a vast time span, the Bible is incredibly uniform.
Historical accuracy (not even an argument btw w/ secular scholars) watch the history channel lately?
Scientifically accurate (not even talking creation here, just normal facts that weren't known in that time.)
Prophecy fulfillment (but the willfully ignorant will just look past this)
Health ethics - The health ethics in the Bible are flawless. Another testimony to the truth of the Bible.
Moral ethics - again, perfection and the reason most people rather not believe in the Bible IMO
Not patronizing - the Bible does not try to win you with concessions, its either all or none w/ the Bible
The contents - the Bible is written just like an encyclopedia, just reporting the facts.
thats all I got for now.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on May 02, 2009, 01:54:21 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on May 02, 2009, 01:54:21 AM
Guy, the bible says that PI is equal to 3, bats are birds, and that all living land species lived within walking distance of Noah's house...
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: SSY on May 02, 2009, 02:05:26 AM
Post by: SSY on May 02, 2009, 02:05:26 AM
Maybe the earth was smalle back then, what you obviously fail to understand Hitsumei is that all geologists have an evolutionist mind set, and therefor are blinded by the obvious conclusions any reputable ( read, Christian ) scientist could deduce from observations.
Mathmeticians and Chiropterologists are the same.
Mathmeticians and Chiropterologists are the same.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 03:20:01 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 03:20:01 AM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Guy, the bible says that PI is equal to 3, bats are birds, and that all living land species lived within walking distance of Noah's house...
You said this before, what do you mean by the Bible saying PI = 3?
The other stuff is creation arguments, which I am avoiding on this thread. Their is already a Man-ofGod vs Evolution thread if you care to discuss that there.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on May 02, 2009, 03:30:48 AM
Post by: PipeBox on May 02, 2009, 03:30:48 AM
Blah! I'll bite.
This isn't technically a contradiction, just an "eh, what?" situation.
In Exodus 4:11, God says plainly that he makes people deaf, dumb and blind.
In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter. God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.
Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.
This isn't technically a contradiction, just an "eh, what?" situation.
In Exodus 4:11, God says plainly that he makes people deaf, dumb and blind.
In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter. God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.
Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on May 02, 2009, 04:03:59 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on May 02, 2009, 04:03:59 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "Hitsumei"Guy, the bible says that PI is equal to 3, bats are birds, and that all living land species lived within walking distance of Noah's house...
You said this before, what do you mean by the Bible saying PI = 3?
The other stuff is creation arguments, which I am avoiding on this thread. Their is already a Man-ofGod vs Evolution thread if you care to discuss that there.
I Kings 7:23-26: "He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. Below the rim, gourds encircled it - ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea. The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths."
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Tom62 on May 02, 2009, 08:54:14 AM
Post by: Tom62 on May 02, 2009, 08:54:14 AM
Quote from: "Man-Of-God"Health ethics - The health ethics in the Bible are flawless. Another testimony to the truth of the Bible.
From Leviticus
14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest
14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;
14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean , and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
14:5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it , and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:
14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
I don't know about you, but I've got more trust in modern medicine.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on May 02, 2009, 09:27:16 AM
Post by: PipeBox on May 02, 2009, 09:27:16 AM
Quote from: "Tom62"Quote from: "Man-Of-God"Health ethics - The health ethics in the Bible are flawless. Another testimony to the truth of the Bible.
From Leviticus
14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest
14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;
14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean , and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
14:5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it , and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:
14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
I don't know about you, but I've got more trust in modern medicine.
That is brilliant. Thanks for finding it, Tom, I never knew it was there, and it's pretty far off from "don't eat pork or have sex with women on their period."
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 08:13:31 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 08:13:31 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "Hitsumei"Guy, the bible says that PI is equal to 3, bats are birds, and that all living land species lived within walking distance of Noah's house...
You said this before, what do you mean by the Bible saying PI = 3?
The other stuff is creation arguments, which I am avoiding on this thread. Their is already a Man-ofGod vs Evolution thread if you care to discuss that there.
I Kings 7:23-26: "He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. Below the rim, gourds encircled it - ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea. The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths."
not following?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 09:39:43 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: "Tom62"Quote from: "Man-Of-God"Health ethics - The health ethics in the Bible are flawless. Another testimony to the truth of the Bible.
From Leviticus
14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest
14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;
14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean , and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
14:5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it , and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:
14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
I don't know about you, but I've got more trust in modern medicine.
The old testament was a shadow of things to come.
Hebrews 10:1-3
Quote1 The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.
3 But instead, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year.
QuoteTwo Birds--One Dipped in Blood.--The wonderful symbol of the living bird dipped in the blood of the bird slain and then set free to its joyous life, is to us the symbol of the atonement. There were death and life blended, presenting to the searcher for truth the hidden treasure, the union of the pardoning blood with the resurrection and life of our Redeemer. The bird slain was over living water; that flowing stream was a symbol of the ever flowing, ever cleansing efficacy of the blood of Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, the fountain that was open for Judah and Jerusalem, wherein they may wash and be clean from every stain of sin. We are to have free access to the atoning blood of Christ. This we must regard as the most precious privilege, the greatest blessing, ever granted to sinful man. And how little is made of this great gift! How deep, how wide and continuous is this stream! To every soul thirsting after holiness there is repose, there is rest, there is the quickening influence of the Holy Spirit, and then the holy, happy, peaceful walk and precious communion with Christ. Then, oh, then, can we intelligently say with John, "Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world"
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 02, 2009, 09:48:56 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 02, 2009, 09:48:56 PM
You know what always makes me question my position as an atheist? Bible passages. Gets me every time.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 10:05:30 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"You know what always makes me question my position as an atheist? Bible passages. Gets me every time.
Are we not discussing the Bible? If were going to argue over Bible truth, then quoting scriptures is inevitable. Do not worry, you can be pragmatic about this if you want. Most people are.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 02, 2009, 10:08:56 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 02, 2009, 10:08:56 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Humor is often a great subtle way to disregard truth. Very powerful indeed.
You ever been in an situation where you knew you were wrong ( I know hard to imagine) and used humor to escape it? It works wonders.
Humor is also often a great and subtle way to highlight ludicrousness and inanity without coming right out and saying it. Very powerful, indeed!
I'm never wrong. I'm like McQ: infallible.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 10:56:31 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 02, 2009, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Humor is often a great subtle way to disregard truth. Very powerful indeed.
You ever been in an situation where you knew you were wrong ( I know hard to imagine) and used humor to escape it? It works wonders.
Humor is also often a great and subtle way to highlight ludicrousness and inanity without coming right out and saying it. Very powerful, indeed!
I'm never wrong. I'm like McQ: infallible. :)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on May 03, 2009, 12:49:42 AM
Post by: McQ on May 03, 2009, 12:49:42 AM
How did Judas die?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 01:30:48 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 01:30:48 AM
Judas never dies!
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.metalsucks.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F04%2Fjudas-priest-at-tct-fri.gif&hash=795d548a086314e8cab58a4ed240b3b5fc873ddc)
(Where's Squid when you need him? Hah.)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.metalsucks.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F04%2Fjudas-priest-at-tct-fri.gif&hash=795d548a086314e8cab58a4ed240b3b5fc873ddc)
(Where's Squid when you need him? Hah.)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 01:46:03 AM
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 01:46:03 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"not following?
Let's break it down then, shall we?
I Kings 7:23-26: "He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. Below the rim, gourds encircled it - ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea. The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths."
That would be the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, or pi. That ratio works out to be 30:10 or 3. Considering that ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, and a slew of other civilizations knew that pi is not 3, the Hebrew god has no excuse for his error. So that means one of two things. Either the Hebrew god doesn't understand geometry, or a fallible human being wrote that passage. If a fallible human wrote it, he made a mathematical error, ergo, the bible is fallible, Q.E.D.
Que the mental gymnastics in 5, 4, 3...
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 01:50:17 AM
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 01:50:17 AM
Quote from: "rlrose328"Quote from: "MikeyV"So again, what is the point of arguing with the willfully ignorant?
I've missed you, Mikey.
Hiya Rose!
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on May 03, 2009, 03:40:14 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on May 03, 2009, 03:40:14 AM
Quote from: "MikeyV"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"not following?
Let's break it down then, shall we?
I Kings 7:23-26: "He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. Below the rim, gourds encircled it - ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea. The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths."
That would be the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, or pi. That ratio works out to be 30:10 or 3. Considering that ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, and a slew of other civilizations knew that pi is not 3, the Hebrew god has no excuse for his error. So that means one of two things. Either the Hebrew god doesn't understand geometry, or a fallible human being wrote that passage. If a fallible human wrote it, he made a mathematical error, ergo, the bible is fallible, Q.E.D.
Que the mental gymnastics in 5, 4, 3...
The worst part is that knowing the diameter, or circumference of a circle is all that is required to calculate the other figure, so not only was the measurement of the circumference or diameter faulty, but it was not even necessary to offer both. Clearly whomever wrote that passage was simply poor at geometry.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 05:07:14 AM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 05:07:14 AM
Quote from: "PipeBox"Blah! I'll bite.
This isn't technically a contradiction, just an "eh, what?" situation.
In Exodus 4:11, God says plainly that he makes people deaf, dumb and blind.
In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter. God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.
Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.
Exodus 4:10-11
Quote10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.â€
11 So the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD? 12 Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.â€
He is not saying he creates people w/ defects, but is simply trying to illustrate to Moses how silly it is for Moses to doupt him. To paraphrase "Am i not the creator of your very being?" Someone may be blind, but he still their creator. Someone may be lame, but he is still their creator.
Now on to Leviticus.
The things concerning the tabernacle were only a shadow of things to happen in heaven.
Hebrews 8:4-6
Quote4 If he were here on earth, he would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law. 5 They serve in a system of worship that is only a copy, a shadow of the real one in heaven. For when Moses was getting ready to build the Tabernacle, God gave him this warning: “Be sure that you make everything according to the pattern I have shown you here on the mountain.â€[a]
6 But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises.
Leviticus 21:21
QuoteNo man of the descendants of Aaron the priest, who has a defect, shall come near to offer the offerings made by fire to the LORD.
The Hight Priest entering the most holy part of the earthly sanctuary was to be an sillouete of the perfection of the High Priest entering into the Most Holy part of the heavenly sanctuary. Which in our case is Jesus who is atoning for our sins.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: SSY on May 03, 2009, 05:19:33 AM
Post by: SSY on May 03, 2009, 05:19:33 AM
Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Hitsumei on May 03, 2009, 06:17:39 AM
Post by: Hitsumei on May 03, 2009, 06:17:39 AM
Quote from: "SSY"Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.
Just google some apologetic responses for it. That's all he's going to do.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 06:43:23 AM
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 06:43:23 AM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"This again is a cop out and is not logical. There is nothing ever that I can say that will prove the infallibility of the Bible in your eyes.
Correct. It is impossible to prove infallibility where none exists. Just as you can never prove to me that the Earth is only 6000 years old. In order to prove either of these, they would have to be true, which they clearly aren't.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Even if everything in the Bible is true and perfect (which I believe it is) their is nothing you are willing to accept.
If it were "true and perfect" we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. I'd still be a christian.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"people like to be right, but you cannot argue with perfection.
I wouldn't argue with perfection. But I will argue against ignorance, and the spreading of christian propaganda and dogmatism amongst my fellow humans. I care too much about people to let the self flagellating, self congratulating, know-nothings of the church spread their tripe among them. My only solace is that you and your ilk are a very small minority among christians. Most christians do not accept that the bible is infallible.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"So all arguments against it are shot down.No, not a one has been shot down. They end with the religionist cramming his fingers in his ears and screaming "LALALALALALA, I can't hear you! See you can't refute my argument!, Now I will go find someone else to use these said same dead arguments against!". I suppose that that qualifies as a YEC "win".
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"The uniformity - despite 66 books being written by 40 different authors in a vast time span, the Bible is incredibly uniform.Except even the apostles can't agree on anything. If that's uniformity to you, you have an amazingly low threshold for proof.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Historical accuracy (not even an argument btw w/ secular scholars) watch the history channel lately?Such as the Exodus, which even Jewish scholars admit didn't happen? Which shows are you specifically talking about? I've only seen the ones in which much hopeful speculation is bandied about. Much ado about nothing.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Scientifically accurate (not even talking creation here, just normal facts that weren't known in that time.)The sun standing still? Pi = 3? Mustard seed is the smallest seed? I must have missed the "science" part.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Prophecy fulfillment (but the willfully ignorant will just look past this)Ah yes. The apostles and modern apologist try to shoehorn Jesus into prophecies, and when they are disproven, it must be that the debunkers are willfully ignorant.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Health ethics - The health ethics in the Bible are flawless. Another testimony to the truth of the Bible.Taking health tips from Bronze Age goat herders, seems like a good idea. Almost as good as Homeopathy, and just as effective.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Moral ethics - again, perfection and the reason most people rather not believe in the Bible IMOSo, when I sell my daughter to my neighbor, how much do you think I should get for her? If angels visit my home, and an angry mob forms outside and wants to have sex with them, do I give them my daughter? If children make fun of my receding hairline, is it okay to pray to have bears maul them? Is it OK to beat my slave as long as I don't kill her?
You know, I could probably find some good passages in Mein Kampf, but I wouldn't use it as any sort of guide for morality.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Not patronizing - the Bible does not try to win you with concessions, its either all or none w/ the Bible
Believe or burn. "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God". Sounds rather patronizing to me.
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"The contents - the Bible is written just like an encyclopedia, just reporting the facts.The facts of talking snakes and donkeys, men living inside big fish, men putting all of the worlds animals on a boat in pairs - no wait, almost forgot sacrificial laws, better amend that in a later section to pairs and sevens, the sun stopping in the sky, ad nauseum...
I'm done speaking to you. Come back when you have new material. You know, something not on Answers in Genesis.
The simple fact that you brought up polonium halos proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. This means you are a troll, a Poe, or you are a newly minted YECer that hasn't gotten tired of his arguments getting shredded.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 06:57:57 AM
Post by: MikeyV on May 03, 2009, 06:57:57 AM
To MCQ, Lae and whoever else is a mod in this section, sorry that my last post was a little caustic. I'll tone it down.
It just galls me that this guy can't even be bothered to read the past posts in these forums where this crap has been hashed, hashed, and rehashed to death.
I'm done posting in this specific thread. This guy is too far gone.
It just galls me that this guy can't even be bothered to read the past posts in these forums where this crap has been hashed, hashed, and rehashed to death.
I'm done posting in this specific thread. This guy is too far gone.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BuckeyeInNC on May 03, 2009, 01:38:31 PM
Post by: BuckeyeInNC on May 03, 2009, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "PipeBox"In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter. God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.
Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.
Exodus 4:10-11Quote10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.â€
11 So the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD? 12 Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.â€
He is not saying he creates people w/ defects, but is simply trying to illustrate to Moses how silly it is for Moses to doupt him. To paraphrase "Am i not the creator of your very being?" Someone may be blind, but he still their creator. Someone may be lame, but he is still their creator.
Man-ofGod,
Did you read what PipeBox wrote? Obviously not.
PipeBox is pointing out that it is RIDICULOUS for god to make the mute, the deaf, the seeing, and the blind AND THEN TO CONSIDER THEM PROFANE.
If you cannot see this, you are beyond hope and are a complete simpleton.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:25:25 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:25:25 PM
Quote from: "BuckeyeInNC"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Quote from: "PipeBox"In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter. God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.
Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.
Exodus 4:10-11Quote10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.â€
11 So the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD? 12 Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.â€
He is not saying he creates people w/ defects, but is simply trying to illustrate to Moses how silly it is for Moses to doupt him. To paraphrase "Am i not the creator of your very being?" Someone may be blind, but he still their creator. Someone may be lame, but he is still their creator.
Man-ofGod,
Did you read what PipeBox wrote? Obviously not.
PipeBox is pointing out that it is RIDICULOUS for god to make the mute, the deaf, the seeing, and the blind AND THEN TO CONSIDER THEM PROFANE.
If you cannot see this, you are beyond hope and are a complete simpleton.
Have you read my post? you assume that God made them mute, it does not say that. God created man, God is our creator, thats all that is saying. Your reading into something that is not there. The lame, Mute is a defect, as a result of the fall of man. Again you want to cling on to as a contradiction because you always want to be right. No one ever wants to concede.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:27:03 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:27:03 PM
Quote from: "SSY"Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.
Trying to, its difficult to get to everything when its me vs everyone. But I am trying.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Have you read my post? you assume that God made them mute, it does not say that. God created man, God is our creator, thats all that is saying. Your reading into something that is not there. The lame, Mute is a defect, as a result of the fall of man. Again you want to cling on to as a contradiction because you always want to be right. No one ever wants to concede.So, quick question... a virtuous woman falls on hard times, gets raped, has a mute/deaf/dumb/whatever baby who grows up ridiculed, taunted and lives a painful life, but is essentially a good person. Another wicked woman gets raped by the same man and has a healthy baby who grows up to be spiteful, hateful but lives a life of luxury and doesn't do anything absolutely terrible, nothing that would send him to Hell, he's just a douche.
Where's God in this? Does God love them both equally? Perfectly? I'm just curious about the gymnastics you're going to pull to explain this one.
QuoteTrying to, its difficult to get to everything when its me vs everyone. But I am trying.You started it.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:53:28 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: "Hitsumei"Quote from: "SSY"Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.
Just google some apologetic responses for it. That's all he's going to do.
Exactly. In fact let me do just that.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:55:48 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 02:55:48 PM
Quote from: "MikeyV"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"not following?
Let's break it down then, shall we?
I Kings 7:23-26: "He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. Below the rim, gourds encircled it - ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea. The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths."
That would be the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, or pi. That ratio works out to be 30:10 or 3. Considering that ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, and a slew of other civilizations knew that pi is not 3, the Hebrew god has no excuse for his error. So that means one of two things. Either the Hebrew god doesn't understand geometry, or a fallible human being wrote that passage. If a fallible human wrote it, he made a mathematical error, ergo, the bible is fallible, Q.E.D.
Que the mental gymnastics in 5, 4, 3...
Good point, and one I was not prepared for. Nevertheless, this article has some valid points concerning the "Pi dilemma"
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Bibl ... s7v23.html (http://www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/1Kings7v23.html)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 03:11:55 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 03:11:55 PM
QuoteSo, quick question... a virtuous woman falls on hard times, gets raped, has a mute/deaf/dumb/whatever baby who grows up ridiculed, taunted and lives a painful life, but is essentially a good person. Another wicked woman gets raped by the same man and has a healthy baby who grows up to be spiteful, hateful but lives a life of luxury and doesn't do anything absolutely terrible, nothing that would send him to Hell, he's just a douche.
Where's God in this? Does God love them both equally? Perfectly? I'm just curious about the gymnastics you're going to pull to explain this one.
No gymnastics, the answer is yes.
QuoteYou started it. :hide2:
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
So a perfectly loving and just God sends both the unfortunate blind and deaf guy to the same heaven as the rich douche?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 05:29:59 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 05:29:59 PM
QuoteI wouldn't argue with perfection. But I will argue against ignorance, and the spreading of christian propaganda and dogmatism amongst my fellow humans. I care too much about people to let the self flagellating, self congratulating, know-nothings of the church spread their tripe among them. My only solace is that you and your ilk are a very small minority among christians. Most christians do not accept that the bible is infallible.The fact that most Christians do not accept the Bible as infallible is why so many fall away from Christ. No one wants to believe in partiality. So if seemingly Christian people reject this premise, what is the point in believing its writings?
QuoteNo, not a one has been shot down. They end with the religionist cramming his fingers in his ears and screaming "LALALALALALA, I can't hear you! See you can't refute my argument!, Now I will go find someone else to use these said same dead arguments against!". I suppose that that qualifies as a YEC "win".Look in the mirror on this one.
QuoteExcept even the apostles can't agree on anything. If that's uniformity to you, you have an amazingly low threshold for proof.Oh I see, you are one of those who are expecting to see everything exactly the same in all four gospels. I am sure this would show that the Gospels are not fabricated. :raised:[/quote]
Example?
QuoteTaking health tips from Bronze Age goat herders, seems like a good idea. Almost as good as Homeopathy, and just as effective.
I am glad you said that. This very point is a miracle you can witness yourself. The fact that the authors are just goat herders puts more emphasis on the divine inspiration.
Seventh Day adventist is a Bible Group who follows the health laws in the Bible and are attributed w/ living the longest on average.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-da ... h_and_diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Health_and_diet)
and see paragraph 8 of
http://health.usnews.com/articles/healt ... l?PageNr=2 (http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/baby-boomer-health/2009/02/20/10-health-habits-that-will-help-you-live-to-100.html?PageNr=2)
QuoteSo, when I sell my daughter to my neighbor, how much do you think I should get for her? If angels visit my home, and an angry mob forms outside and wants to have sex with them, do I give them my daughter? If children make fun of my receding hairline, is it okay to pray to have bears maul them? Is it OK to beat my slave as long as I don't kill her?No one said that Lot was not a sinner. What he did there was wrong. The only perfect being in the Bible is Jesus.
Inspiration faithfully records the faults of good men, those who were distinguished by the favour of God; indeed, their faults are more fully presented than their virtues. This has been a subject of wonder to many, and has given the infidel occasion to scoff at the Bible. But it is one of the strongest evidences of the truth of Scripture, that facts are not glossed over, nor the sins of its chief characters suppressed. The minds of men are so subject to prejudice that it is not possible for human histories to be absolutely impartial. Had the Bible been written by uninspired persons, it would no doubt have presented the character of its honoured men in a more flattering light. But as it is, we have a correct record of their experiences.
QuoteYou know, I could probably find some good passages in Mein Kampf, but I wouldn't use it as any sort of guide for morality.I am glad to hear that.
QuoteBelieve or burn. "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God". Sounds rather patronizing to me.Doesn't seem that way to me.
QuoteThe facts of talking snakes and donkeys, men living inside big fish, men putting all of the worlds animals on a boat in pairs - no wait, almost forgot sacrificial laws, better amend that in a later section to pairs and sevens, the sun stopping in the sky, ad nauseum...See above
QuoteI'm done speaking to you. Come back when you have new material. You know, something not on Answers in Genesis.
The simple fact that you brought up polonium halos proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. This means you are a troll, a Poe, or you are a newly minted YECer that hasn't gotten tired of his arguments getting shredded.
Bringing up polonium halos demonstrates that I do not know what I am talking about?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 05:37:29 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 05:37:29 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"So a perfectly loving and just God sends both the unfortunate blind and deaf guy to the same heaven as the rich douche?
God wants all his children to come to heaven. This is why he sent his son to die for our sins. The Bible is clear that sinful man cannot stand in the presence of God with out being destroyed (a natural result in biblical terms). Likewise the government of God cannot have sin in heaven. Gods goal is to undo the damage that Satin started and bring the universe back to the perfection it once enjoyed.
Revelation 21:1
QuoteThen I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 05:41:37 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 05:41:37 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"And this answers my question... how?Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"So a perfectly loving and just God sends both the unfortunate blind and deaf guy to the same heaven as the rich douche?
God wants all his children to come to heaven. This is why he sent his son to die for our sins. The Bible is clear that sinful man cannot stand in the presence of God with out being destroyed. But the government of God cannot have sin in heaven. Gods goal is to undo the damage that Satin started and bring the universe back to the perfection it once enjoyed.
Revelation 21:1QuoteThen I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away
Also, remember, God knows all, right? God knew Satan would do all those things before Satan was even created. All the suffering supposedly inflicted on the world by the devil is, ultimately, the responsibility of God.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BuckeyeInNC on May 03, 2009, 06:31:31 PM
Post by: BuckeyeInNC on May 03, 2009, 06:31:31 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Have you read my post? you assume that God made them mute, it does not say that.
Leviticus absolutely says that God made them mute . . . . . I am through with your idiocy . .
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on May 03, 2009, 06:52:26 PM
Post by: McQ on May 03, 2009, 06:52:26 PM
Quote from: "MikeyV"To MCQ, Lae and whoever else is a mod in this section, sorry that my last post was a little caustic. I'll tone it down.
It just galls me that this guy can't even be bothered to read the past posts in these forums where this crap has been hashed, hashed, and rehashed to death.
I'm done posting in this specific thread. This guy is too far gone.
Mikey, I have no problem whatsoever with your post. I'm on the same page with you. I will go as far as to say that I have doubts about him not being some prankster trying to yank peoples' chains, pretending to be a creationist nut-job.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Recusant on May 03, 2009, 07:26:57 PM
Post by: Recusant on May 03, 2009, 07:26:57 PM
Intrangisence; no doubt, but idiocy, no. :devil: )
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 07:42:44 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 07:42:44 PM
Quote from: "BuckeyeInNC"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Have you read my post? you assume that God made them mute, it does not say that.
Leviticus absolutely says that God made them mute . . . . . I am through with your idiocy . .
Wow, reread thread please
The comparison was between Exodus 4:11 and Leviticus 21:17-23..
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 07:56:46 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 07:56:46 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Quote from: "Man-ofGod"And this answers my question... how?Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"So a perfectly loving and just God sends both the unfortunate blind and deaf guy to the same heaven as the rich douche?
God wants all his children to come to heaven. This is why he sent his son to die for our sins. The Bible is clear that sinful man cannot stand in the presence of God with out being destroyed. But the government of God cannot have sin in heaven. Gods goal is to undo the damage that Satin started and bring the universe back to the perfection it once enjoyed.
Revelation 21:1QuoteThen I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away
Ill try it a different way. Those who repent and love God will be in heaven. So if the rich douche repents and loves God, he will be in heaven, if the unfortunate blind guy repents and loves God, he will be in heaven.
QuoteAlso, remember, God knows all, right? God knew Satan would do all those things before Satan was even created. All the suffering supposedly inflicted on the world by the devil is, ultimately, the responsibility of God.
Do you really want the answer or do you just want to argue? The real answer involves scripture.
Short answer is everyone has a choice. Satin claimed Gods laws were unfair, as people do today. If God destroyed Satin, would that prove Satin was wrong and would love continue to exist in heaven or would the host be more fearful then loving of their creator?
God knew the human race was going to fall but still created us. If you somehow could know that your child was going to be a murderer or a terrorist, would you end his/her life? God is willing to let intelligent beings make their choice, but if he is to allow this, he is also willing to allow those beings to experience the consequence of their sin. Nevertheless, the human race is an example of what happens when there is a fallen away from Gods commandments.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 08:07:04 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 08:07:04 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Ill try it a different way. Those who repent and love God will be in heaven. So if the rich douche repents and loves God, he will be in heaven, if the unfortunate blind guy repents and loves God, he will be in heaven.And you don't see anything unjust about that situation? Speaking of unfortunate and blind...
QuoteDo you really want the answer or do you just want to argue? The real answer involves scripture.Well of course I want to argue. So do you. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.
QuoteShort answer is everyone has a choice. Satin claimed Gods laws were unfair, as people do today. If God destroyed Satin, would that prove Satin was wrong and would love continue to exist in heaven or would the host be more fearful then loving of their creator?God wants fear. That's how it operates. Surely you've heard the phrases "putting the fear of God into someone" or "a God-fearing child".
QuoteGod knew the human race was going to fall but still created us. If you somehow could know that your child was going to be a murderer or a terrorist, would you end his/her life? God is willing to let intelligent beings make their choice, but if he is to allow this, he is also willing to allow those beings to experience the consequence of their sin. Nevertheless, the human race is an example of what happens when there is a fallen away from Gods commandments.Interesting question about the child. In utero? Yes. I'd have it aborted. After birth? I'd have it put in custody so it couldn't happen. Then again, I'm a cold-hearted prick, so...
Some people aren't experiencing the consequences of their sins. They're experiencing the consequences of other peoples' sins. Unless you're saying that when one human sins, everyone sins. In which case, I'm afraid we've reached the end of this little ride, because I refuse to argue with anyone who takes up a position that insane.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 08:10:37 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: "McQ"Quote from: "MikeyV"To MCQ, Lae and whoever else is a mod in this section, sorry that my last post was a little caustic. I'll tone it down.
It just galls me that this guy can't even be bothered to read the past posts in these forums where this crap has been hashed, hashed, and rehashed to death.
I'm done posting in this specific thread. This guy is too far gone.
Mikey, I have no problem whatsoever with your post. I'm on the same page with you. I will go as far as to say that I have doubts about him not being some prankster trying to yank peoples' chains, pretending to be a creationist nut-job.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 08:35:22 PM
Post by: Man-ofGod on May 03, 2009, 08:35:22 PM
QuoteQuoteAnd you don't see anything unjust about that situation? Speaking of unfortunate and blind...
If the unforutnately and blind is not willing to turn from his sin, why would that be unjust. Just because you are unfortunatel or blind does not give you a green card to break the laws on this earth or in heaven. On earth you go to jail for murder. In the same way, you that person made a choice not to join Gods kingdom. As it turns out, I am sure their will be plenty of blind and unfortunate that will be in heaven.
John 9:39-41Quote 39 Then Jesus told him,[a] “I entered this world to render judgmentâ€"to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind.â€
40 Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, “Are you saying we’re blind?â€
41 “If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty,†Jesus replied. “But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.
Well of course I want to argue. So do you. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.
Like Morpheus said to Neo, "free your mind."
QuoteGod wants fear. That's how it operates. Surely you've heard the phrases "putting the fear of God into someone" or "a God-fearing child".Its a conservative term, and fear is a term that humans can understand. But ultimately, God wants love. Obviously, Satin did not fear God, which was his mistake. He took Jesus meek character as evidence for weakness.
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?â€
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and great commandment.
QuoteInteresting question about the child. In utero? Yes. I'd have it aborted. After birth? I'd have it put in custody so it couldn't happen. Then again, I'm a cold-hearted prick, so...Appreciate your honestly. Well God is perfect in love. He gives everyone their chance to repent, It is the only reason why he has not come yet.
QuoteSome people aren't experiencing the consequences of their sins. They're experiencing the consequences of other peoples' sins. Unless you're saying that when one human sins, everyone sins. In which case, I'm afraid we've reached the end of this little ride, because I refuse to argue with anyone who takes up a position that insane.Their is gross negligence as a result in sin, and innocent people feel the results. Jesus is an example of that. He took on all the results of sin at the cross. Again, this is why God is trying to bring as many people into his kingdom, so when this fallen world is destroyed, sin will be a thing of the past.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 08:45:50 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 03, 2009, 08:45:50 PM
I'm not entirely sure I got any answers there... 
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BuckeyeInNC on May 03, 2009, 11:03:07 PM
Post by: BuckeyeInNC on May 03, 2009, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"I'm not entirely sure I got any answers there...
You won't. Man-of-Idiocy cannot think nor digest. He can only spout the same crap over and over again.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on May 03, 2009, 11:17:56 PM
Post by: PipeBox on May 03, 2009, 11:17:56 PM
Quote from: "BuckeyeInNC"Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"I'm not entirely sure I got any answers there...
You won't. Man-of-Idiocy cannot think nor digest. He can only spout the same crap over and over again.
That's a tad caustic.
I'd say I have as much right to be pissed at him as anyone else. He hasn't answered for any of his attacks on valid science nor his unyielding acceptance of myth (the flood) in the face of reality, but I don't think insulting him is gonna do anything but make him feel convicted. I'd rather calmly point out where he is in error. After all, we have the facts, it's his loss if he won't accept them.
I'll go ahead and say that his explanation for the deaf and blind is good enough to move on to another question. That being why we got such a myriad of unequally distributed punishments. Separate post for that...
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on May 03, 2009, 11:42:47 PM
Post by: PipeBox on May 03, 2009, 11:42:47 PM
OK, this isn't a contradiction, it's just something for which I can tell you there is no good answer. Apparently there were no ailments prior to sin. No non-beneficial mutations, either. So man sins. God decides man's punishment. He elects that women deserve laborious childbirth, men deserve to farm, and that snakes deserve to all crawl on the ground and bite at and get stomped on by man (despite the fact that the serpent either was Satan or an evil agent of him). Apparently, somewhere, we got all mental and physical disabilities thrown in, and many animals became carnivorous, including the carnivorous plants (flytrap) that could not have survived without eating other critters. Ring worms and tape worms were docile and ate, I dunno, dirt before man sinned. Asteroids and comets began zigging around. Oh, yeah, and thorns. Oh, right, and of course, to top all that off, hell.
God is apparently in the business of fooling us, as all the apparently basal forms of modern evolved creatures were in the garden too. Why we don't find modern critters fossilized in the same strata as these simultaneously-existing forms is something literalists cannot answer for.
See, I'm realizing there aren't that many contradictions in the Bible, just like there aren't that many contradiction in Harry Potter. All these writers thought they were speaking of the same god, as they never bothered to say that the other guy had it wrong in their description. Yahweh was the god of the day, and everyone had an oral story to tell. And these tended to not directly conflict each other, just like Star Wars fanfic doesn't today. But here's the thing: Star Wars, Harry Potter, and the collection of books called the Bible all have one thing in common: they don't represent reality.
There are too many problems with a literal interpretation of the Bible to smooth over using anything short of blind faith. But hey, at least it's fairly internally consistent. Even if OT God was a monster that burned cities for disobedience, and then because his law was "fulfilled" he backed off the killing, it's still arguably internally consistent. So I think I'm done, as I never had any blatant contradictions to offer you. I mean, even the thing about Pi is the Bible contradicting reality, not the Bible contradicting itself. I'm not sure it ever does, outside of figures you'd just smooth over, like a census difference of 300,000 people.
I think I'm done with this thread, but no hard feelings MOG.
God is apparently in the business of fooling us, as all the apparently basal forms of modern evolved creatures were in the garden too. Why we don't find modern critters fossilized in the same strata as these simultaneously-existing forms is something literalists cannot answer for.
See, I'm realizing there aren't that many contradictions in the Bible, just like there aren't that many contradiction in Harry Potter. All these writers thought they were speaking of the same god, as they never bothered to say that the other guy had it wrong in their description. Yahweh was the god of the day, and everyone had an oral story to tell. And these tended to not directly conflict each other, just like Star Wars fanfic doesn't today. But here's the thing: Star Wars, Harry Potter, and the collection of books called the Bible all have one thing in common: they don't represent reality.
There are too many problems with a literal interpretation of the Bible to smooth over using anything short of blind faith. But hey, at least it's fairly internally consistent. Even if OT God was a monster that burned cities for disobedience, and then because his law was "fulfilled" he backed off the killing, it's still arguably internally consistent. So I think I'm done, as I never had any blatant contradictions to offer you. I mean, even the thing about Pi is the Bible contradicting reality, not the Bible contradicting itself. I'm not sure it ever does, outside of figures you'd just smooth over, like a census difference of 300,000 people.
I think I'm done with this thread, but no hard feelings MOG.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: joeactor on May 04, 2009, 01:17:25 AM
Post by: joeactor on May 04, 2009, 01:17:25 AM
All,
Please refrain from any personal insults or caustic comments.
They are not tolerated on this forum.
Either keep it civil, or don't post it.
(we now return to your discussion, already in progress)
JoeActor
Please refrain from any personal insults or caustic comments.
They are not tolerated on this forum.
Either keep it civil, or don't post it.
(we now return to your discussion, already in progress)
JoeActor
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: McQ on May 04, 2009, 01:31:46 AM
Post by: McQ on May 04, 2009, 01:31:46 AM
Still waiting, MOG. How did Judas die?
Also, you mentioned this statement:
Yes, it does, as do a few other things you bring up. And you incorrectly assume that no one here knows the bible. I would wager that a few of us here know it much better than you, along with the basic sciences that you seem to be so totally ignorant of.
So, without further side stepping.....
go right ahead.
Also, you mentioned this statement:
Quote from: "Man-of-God"Bringing up polonium halos demonstrates that I do not know what I am talking about?
Yes, it does, as do a few other things you bring up. And you incorrectly assume that no one here knows the bible. I would wager that a few of us here know it much better than you, along with the basic sciences that you seem to be so totally ignorant of.
So, without further side stepping.....
go right ahead.
Title: Re: Contradictions in the Bible
Post by: Recusant on May 04, 2009, 02:30:18 AM
Post by: Recusant on May 04, 2009, 02:30:18 AM
Yes
Jude 3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
No
Proverbs 18:6
A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
Yes
1 Peter 3:15-16
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
No
Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Yes
2 Timothy 4:2-5
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
No
1 Timothy 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Yes
Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
No
2 Timothy 3:1-7
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Yes
Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It must be tough to decide whether it's good to continue disputing the question of contradictions in scripture, given these contradictions!
Jude 3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
No
Proverbs 18:6
A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
Yes
1 Peter 3:15-16
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
No
Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Yes
2 Timothy 4:2-5
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
No
1 Timothy 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Yes
Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
No
2 Timothy 3:1-7
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Yes
Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It must be tough to decide whether it's good to continue disputing the question of contradictions in scripture, given these contradictions!
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: rlrose328 on May 05, 2009, 05:42:56 PM
Post by: rlrose328 on May 05, 2009, 05:42:56 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"Sodom and Gomorrah never existed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQHQ992 ... PL&index=6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQHQ992Wnw&feature=PlayList&p=4FB13ACCE60E2BA1&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6)
I've seen this video bandied about many many times... here is the link with what scholars, both secular and peer, have to say:
Wiki: Ron Wyatt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt#Reception)
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Psalm23 on May 16, 2009, 03:53:03 PM
Post by: Psalm23 on May 16, 2009, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: "perspective"Please point out anything you might think is a contridiction in the Bible, and I will do my best to explain it.The only time there is an error or contradiction in the bible is when an atheist opens it.
it's funny.. the POPE or the millions of high priests don't see these contradictions? LOL.
I bet you $500.00 if you visit an atheist based website.. they will show you an error in the bible... and they won't reveal the correct answer.
Remember, any time there is something in question.. there's always an answer.. but atheists are too afraid of the truth.
pure and simple..
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BadPoison on May 16, 2009, 04:07:36 PM
Post by: BadPoison on May 16, 2009, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: "Psalm23"On the contrary. I do not believe I am afraid of the truth. For, truly, it is what I seek. So far you have failed to convince me that you are privy to any knowledge or understanding that I am not.Quote from: "perspective"Please point out anything you might think is a contridiction in the Bible, and I will do my best to explain it.The only time there is an error or contradiction in the bible is when an atheist opens it.
it's funny.. the POPE or the millions of high priests don't see these contradictions? LOL.
I bet you $500.00 if you visit an atheist based website.. they will show you an error in the bible... and they won't reveal the correct answer.
Remember, any time there is something in question.. there's always an answer.. but atheists are too afraid of the truth.
pure and simple..
I counter, that instead of me being afraid of the truth, you are. You believe what you believe and are afraid to question it because of your fear of eternal damnation. "But wait!" you say. "I know what I believe because God has revealed himself to me! I'm not scared of hell, I'm happy to feel his everlasting love!"
Then explain to me why I should believe you when you say this, and not any other believer in any other god who believes they too have had revelation from their own deities. For god's sake, think more critically man!
Also: Why in the world would I be afraid of the truth if it meant that I would get to live an eternal life simply by accepting the sacrifice of a man/god 2000 years ago? Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me!
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Psalm23 on May 16, 2009, 04:26:43 PM
Post by: Psalm23 on May 16, 2009, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: "BadPoison"Atheists read the bible for one main purpose, and that's to find "errors" in God's perfect word.Quote from: "Psalm23"On the contrary. I do not believe I am afraid of the truth. For, truly, it is what I seek. So far you have failed to convince me that you are privy to any knowledge or understanding that I am not.Quote from: "perspective"Please point out anything you might think is a contridiction in the Bible, and I will do my best to explain it.The only time there is an error or contradiction in the bible is when an atheist opens it.
it's funny.. the POPE or the millions of high priests don't see these contradictions? LOL.
I bet you $500.00 if you visit an atheist based website.. they will show you an error in the bible... and they won't reveal the correct answer.
Remember, any time there is something in question.. there's always an answer.. but atheists are too afraid of the truth.
pure and simple..
I counter, that instead of me being afraid of the truth, you are. You believe what you believe and are afraid to question it because of your fear of eternal damnation. "But wait!" you say. "I know what I believe because God has revealed himself to me! I'm not scared of hell, I'm happy to feel his everlasting love!"
Then explain to me why I should believe you when you say this, and not any other believer in any other god who believes they too have had revelation from their own deities. For god's sake, think more critically man!
Also: Why in the world would I be afraid of the truth if it meant that I would get to live an eternal life simply by accepting the sacrifice of a man/god 2000 years ago? Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me!
They think if they find a discrepancy in God's word.. then that ultimately means God is false, right? WRONG!
atheists have been digging and searching for errors in the the Bible since it was first penned. And Christian Apologetics come right out and say.. "No No No!!! Here's the answers just a few verses away!!"
You can show me what you think is a contradiction, and i will search the internet for that verse, and i'll type in "answer" next to it. and bada bing bada boom! God is perfect afterall!!
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 16, 2009, 04:54:41 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 16, 2009, 04:54:41 PM
Quote from: "Psalm23"You can show me what you think is a contradiction, and i will search the internet for that verse, and i'll type in "answer" next to it. and bada bing bada boom! God is perfect afterall!!Well, get started (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2333#p29298).
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Sophus on May 16, 2009, 05:34:56 PM
Post by: Sophus on May 16, 2009, 05:34:56 PM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Quote from: "Psalm23"You can show me what you think is a contradiction, and i will search the internet for that verse, and i'll type in "answer" next to it. and bada bing bada boom! God is perfect afterall!!Well, get started (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2333#p29298).
Quick tally... how many think Psalm won't run away like perspective?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: BadPoison on May 16, 2009, 05:47:45 PM
Post by: BadPoison on May 16, 2009, 05:47:45 PM
I've got a feeling he's going come across something like this:
"God, I just can't help these people anymore. These fools mock you and me, and I can't show them the obvious error of their ways. I give up. I don't have time."
"God, I just can't help these people anymore. These fools mock you and me, and I can't show them the obvious error of their ways. I give up. I don't have time."
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Ihateyoumike on May 17, 2009, 05:31:14 PM
Post by: Ihateyoumike on May 17, 2009, 05:31:14 PM
Quote from: "Man-ofGod"If God destroyed Satin, would that prove Satin was wrong and would love continue to exist in heaven or would the host be more fearful then loving of their creator?
If god destroyed satin... we wouldn't have comfortable bedsheets anymore.
satin: a smooth fabric of silk or rayon; has a glossy face and a dull back
satan: chief spirit of evil and adversary of God; tempter of mankind; master of Hell
Just sayin'...
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on May 17, 2009, 06:18:43 PM
Post by: PipeBox on May 17, 2009, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: "Sophus":lol:
I think the host of heaven really would start to fear God if he destroyed satin.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Scrotucus on May 21, 2009, 01:31:21 AM
Post by: Scrotucus on May 21, 2009, 01:31:21 AM
The bible said that God is perfect,and it said that man is imperfect.
It also says that god created man in his image. If god created people that were just like him, that would make god imperfect.
It also says that god created man in his image. If god created people that were just like him, that would make god imperfect.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Psalm23 on May 21, 2009, 01:43:54 AM
Post by: Psalm23 on May 21, 2009, 01:43:54 AM
Quote from: "Scrotucus"The bible said that God is perfect,and it said that man is imperfect."image" my friend. Look it up.
It also says that god created man in his image. If god created people that were just like him, that would make god imperfect.
Bible trivia:
God said; "Let's create man in our image".
who was he talking to?
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 21, 2009, 01:46:58 AM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on May 21, 2009, 01:46:58 AM
Quote from: "Psalm23"Bible trivia:Ooh, ooh, lemme guess, lemme guess...
God said; "Let's create man in our image".
who was he talking to?
It was the royal We! Did I get it right?! Can I be a Christian now?!??
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Sophus on May 21, 2009, 02:36:55 AM
Post by: Sophus on May 21, 2009, 02:36:55 AM
Quote from: "Psalm23"Bible trivia:
God said; "Let's create man in our image".
who was he talking to?
Wasn't he talking to himself? That schizo. See's it's not just the believers that are crazy... it's their god too
Most gods are created in man's image.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Jolly Sapper on May 21, 2009, 04:36:12 AM
Post by: Jolly Sapper on May 21, 2009, 04:36:12 AM
Quote from: "Sophus"Quote from: "Psalm23"Bible trivia:
God said; "Let's create man in our image".
who was he talking to?
Wasn't he talking to himself? That schizo. See's it's not just the believers that are crazy... it's their god too
Most gods are created in man's image.
hmm.. wait, if there really weren't any other gods out there besides the One True God, the first commandment wouldn't make any sense right? So maybe God was talking to the other gods.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: Tanker on May 21, 2009, 05:23:21 AM
Post by: Tanker on May 21, 2009, 05:23:21 AM
Quote from: "Psalm23"Quote from: "perspective"Please point out anything you might think is a contridiction in the Bible, and I will do my best to explain it.The only time there is an error or contradiction in the bible is when an atheist opens it.
it's funny.. the POPE or the millions of high priests don't see these contradictions? LOL.
I bet you $500.00 if you visit an atheist based website.. they will show you an error in the bible... and they won't reveal the correct answer.
Remember, any time there is something in question.. there's always an answer.. but atheists are too afraid of the truth.
pure and simple..
I seem to remember a famous astronomer in the 1640s who had the sheer gall and audacity to go against the pope, the church, and the bible and claim that the Earth revolved around the Sun and not the other way around (he wasen't the first either just the most famous). His name was Galielo and he was tried by a inquisitional inquest and found guilty of heresy. The funny thing was he was right and the church faced with undieniable evidence eventually recanted. Kinda reminds me of an earlier church position that the Earth is flat. For some reason Christians won't admit a scientific factif it goes against the bible untill you bury them in evidence. It seems like if there is even a tiny hint of a crack they will hide behind it, rather the just following Occam's razer.
Title: Re: Contridictions in the Bible
Post by: PipeBox on May 21, 2009, 09:15:48 PM
Post by: PipeBox on May 21, 2009, 09:15:48 PM
Quote from: "Psalm23"Bible trivia:I always assumed he was talking to the animals created before us, seeing as how he was already commanding the Earth to bring forth life. But I was a "theistic evolutionist" back then, so tell me what you think it meant. I took it to mean that the highest goal of life was to create man, and give man humble dominion over it. Something of a masterwork of nature, in accordance to the divine will of God. Please, point out why I was wrong, if you believe otherwise.
God said; "Let's create man in our image".
who was he talking to?