Happy Atheist Forum

[youtube:2lmdu6jq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ[/youtube:2lmdu6jq]

There's more for the site at Why Wont God Heal Amputees? (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/no-atheists.htm)

Thoughts?

Kyu

My first thought is, 'You should read the comments on the YouTube page... they are hilarious.'

 

Some of these are a bit of a stretch, though. Some good, some not so good. All entertaining.

I think it's great. All valid questions, some stronger than others, but he put it in an engaging way, and sounded very professional about it. I like it. My only issue is with the format. One of the things I prefer not to see in a presentation of any kind is when someone reads their slides word for word to me. I can read really fast so I'm always way ahead of the speaker and it becomes a distraction.

He could shorten it up a bit that way too. But all in all, I think it's a great set of questions and should be asked of "rational", intelligent christians. Good find, Kyu.

Quote from: "McQ"He could shorten it up a bit that way too. But all in all, I think it's a great set of questions and should be asked of "rational", intelligent christians. Good find, Kyu.

I was looking for an actual list of the questions on his site but couldn't find any.

It would be interesting to put them into a quiz format wouldn't it?

Kyu

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"

Quote from: "McQ"He could shorten it up a bit that way too. But all in all, I think it's a great set of questions and should be asked of "rational", intelligent christians. Good find, Kyu.

I was looking for an actual list of the questions on his site but couldn't find any.

It would be interesting to put them into a quiz format wouldn't it?

Kyu

It would make a great quiz. I'd love to see a multiple choice quiz, with every set of answers containing the choice of, "God is imaginary." Or having the radio buttons react to the quiz taker's choice with a pop-up bubble come up each time they try to use an answer that rationalizes god's existence. Have it say a bunch of different things: "Are you joking?", "Get Serious!", "You're supposed to be using your brain.", etc. LOL!

this is an excellent video because it raises excellent questions--questions to which educated christians should either have a reasonable answer or admit that they don't have a reasonable answer. i also completely agree that the lives of most christians do not follow from their claimed beliefs; christians who believe that all marriages should last forever are at least as likely to get divorced as any other person.
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however, i don't think that a christian must make up an irrational excuse for god's behavior (or for god's apparent inaction in response to fervent prayers). i think many good and sufficient reasons exist to either explain why god does a certain thing or to explain why the question is irrelevant.
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for example, "Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?" i will take one of what i think could be the most extreme examples of this, Sabbath breaking, which the creator of Why Won't God Heal Amputees (WWGHA) takes from Exodus 35:2, and is explained further in the Ten Commandments from Deuteronomy 5:12-15. i think the reason given there is very relevant, especially considering that at this point in the story Moses is instructing the recently freed slaves in how to live as the people of god. he tells them,

"Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy . . . [on every seventh day] you shall not do any work--you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you. Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there" (NRSV, emphasis mine)

i think god realized that the people who had worked as slaves for so long would be tempted to work as hard for themselves as they had been forced to work for their former masters--but god didn't want his people working themselves to death, so he instructed them to take a day off every week. to emphasize the importance of resting and worshiping. then god made this command as important as any other--by instructing the death sentence for disobedience.

in this context, i think god's command makes sense. god freed the Hebrews from slavery--so they should work some days but leave at least one day every week for resting and worshiping. and their livestock and any slaves they possessed were also allowed to rest. to me, the sabbath commandment sounds like the work of a loving, providing god.

QuoteTo me, the sabbath commandment sounds like the work of a loving, providing god.

I don't think it's the commandment that the video takes issue with, but the disproportionate penalty.

It just doesn't seem to mesh with the concept of god being just.

Quotethen god made this command as important as any other

That's just it. Why would he do that? I think everyone would agree that prohibiting work on a certain day is simply not as important as prohibiting murder.

A clear understanding of the different degrees of wrongdoing (calculated by the amount of suffering caused) and their respective penalties - that's how I would define justice, and Yahweh is seriously devoid of that characteristic.

indeed, you are defining justice in probably the best way that you can if the Bible's message is untrue.

but i think the substance of biblical justice is not how much harm an action causes; rather, i think the standard is whether something increases life. according to Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 35, taking one day out of every seven to rest and worship is absolutely necessary to living an abundant and god-centered life. imagine god saying "if you work every single day of your life, you might as well be dead: you're not living life the way i created it to be. i rescued you out of slavery in Egypt so that you could enjoy the life i created for you, not so that you could work for yourself 365 days every year."

Actually I'd say the best example of the killing of innocent people would have to be the Noahic flood where a jealous, petty and somewhat pissed off old arse decides to wipe the entire world out.

Kyu

I remember this guy! His "amputees" question was what really boosted me out of my comfortable belief in miracles.. which is pretty much where I began all my doubting: Why does prayer only "work" when it's explainable as other causes? Why doesn't god heal amputees?

Those really got me going; they were the first two things I stopped believing about god: miracles and prayer. Then the responses I got were all to the effect of: "just read the bible and you'll understand!" So I began to read it...

And soon after I picked a username and joined the forums!  

I really like your reasoning strider

"don't work yourself to death OR I WILL KILL YOU!!!!!"

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, I'm glad there is a death threat hanging over me to help me relax.

@SSY:

A much more revealing articulation of what we all thought when we read that post. Thank you.