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My issue personal with people bandying their IQ about is that I took a lot of shit as a kid when a teacher chose to share my private test information with anyone who cared to listen.  I never stopped hearing, "you think you're sooo smart" until I left the community I grew up in and went to live where no one knew.  The other problem was that people felt the need to tell me I'm a failure because I'm "too smart" not to be a (fill in the blank with something other than freelance writer and florist) and make a lot of money or cure a disease or something.  

If someone were to outright ask my IQ, I might tell them though chances are I'd simply find a way to redirect the conversation.  

I know my test results - my adult numbers vary less than a standard deviation from my childhood numbers.  But, you know, I'm almost embarrassed to admit I took IQ tests as an adult and feel like I need to explain. I took one after a head injury because my neuropsychologist recommended it and the other (kind of rinky dink) test was administered by the Social Security Administration examiner when I applied for Disability to show that I'm not retarded and thus able to work no matter how sick I get.

In my experience, whenever someone feels the need to announce their own IQ it generally means they are being a twat.  Even when people mention the IQ's of others (out of the context of an educational placement discussion or a Special Olympics qualifying committee) they, too are generally being twats.  One such experience of mine involved a client ordering flowers for a doctors' convention.  She said to me, "Make sure these are exceptional arrangements, our attendees all have IQ's over 140."  Total twat.  There have been a few others in my real world experience but that one stuck with me because I had to bite my tongue so hard.  Most people I've seen who've waved their IQ around like trophy underwear have been online.  Generally they've been total twats and generally involved in religion flavored discussions.

So the best thing I've found to do when people need to preface every discussion with an announcement of their IQ is to ignore them if possible - because they're twats.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"My issue personal with people bandying their IQ about is that I took a lot of shit as a kid when a teacher chose to share my private test information with anyone who cared to listen.  I never stopped hearing, "you think you're sooo smart" until I left the community I grew up in and went to live where no one knew.  The other problem was that people felt the need to tell me I'm a failure because I'm "too smart" not to be a (fill in the blank with something other than freelance writer and florist) and make a lot of money or cure a disease or something.  

If someone were to outright ask my IQ, I might tell them though chances are I'd simply find a way to redirect the conversation.  

I know my test results - my adult numbers vary less than a standard deviation from my childhood numbers.  But, you know, I'm almost embarrassed to admit I took IQ tests as an adult and feel like I need to explain. I took one after a head injury because my neuropsychologist recommended it and the other (kind of rinky dink) test was administered by the Social Security Administration examiner when I applied for Disability to show that I'm not retarded and thus able to work no matter how sick I get.

In my experience, whenever someone feels the need to announce their own IQ it generally means they are being a twat.  Even when people mention the IQ's of others (out of the context of an educational placement discussion or a Special Olympics qualifying committee) they, too are generally being twats.  One such experience of mine involved a client ordering flowers for a doctors' convention.  She said to me, "Make sure these are exceptional arrangements, our attendees all have IQ's over 140."  Total twat.  There have been a few others in my real world experience but that one stuck with me because I had to bite my tongue so hard.  Most people I've seen who've waved their IQ around like trophy underwear have been online.  Generally they've been total twats and generally involved in religion flavored discussions.

So the best thing I've found to do when people need to preface every discussion with an announcement of their IQ is to ignore them if possible - because they're twats.

 :beer:

Well spake, m'lady!

I always enjoy reading your rants.  

Bud: Hey, Will. You're a pretty bright guy, what's your IQ?
Me: 78.
Bud: Why are you picking your nose?

IQs are a fun way to try and gauge intellect, but the truth is that they're not really the end-all be-all of measures for intellect. I would argue that there is no way to objectively gauge intellect.

Intellectual vanity is a sign of stupidity, though. The "twats" are people that identified with the Ninja Turtle Donatello, and somehow that expanded to a "I must be very smart. Look at how smart I am!" attitude. It's silly.

High intelligence is just another tool people can use either for good or ill. It really doesn't matter much, and I don't want to know.

Rachel-from-a-family-of-smart-asses

I will admit that I have never be administered a formal IQ test and therefore I really have no clue what my IQ is and I don't care.  I have some issue with the current measurement of intelligence such as the "gold standard" measurements.  I do think that Howard Gardner's idea of multiple intelligences is a step in a better direction but much more work in the field is still needed.

Stephen Hawking would agree with you there:

Quote from: "Stephen Hawking"People who brag about their IQ are losers.

A lazy fellow with a high IQ is peanuts to someone who makes a great contribution to society with a lower one. For example the man with the highest IQ in the world hasn't really done anything significant that I've heard of. Bill Gates, whose IQ is estimated to be more than 50 points lower, has revolutionized the world with Microsoft.

Quote from: "Willravel"Intellectual vanity is a sign of stupidity, though.

Only if you're intellectually vain and stupid. If arrogance is rightfully earned then I don't see them being stupid for being arrogant. Then again maybe I'm just excusing my own intellectual vanity.

Shit, and I just wanted to brag about my IQ  ;)  I'd only taken an official IQ test once, that was in another language than my mother tongue. So, I can't tell you what my real IQ is, because some language related questions in that test where just too subtle or incomprehensible to me.

Quote from: "Sophus"Only if you're intellectually vain and stupid. If arrogance is rightfully earned then I don't see them being stupid for being arrogant. Then again maybe I'm just excusing my own intellectual vanity.

Arrogance is never rightfully earned. Pride, yes, confidence, yes; arrogance, never. Knowing that line between pride/confidence and arrogance may very well be a sign of intelligence, too.

Is I.Q. meaningless?  I don't know.  I do know that whe I was young and stupider (I'm hoping this to be true   )  I was told I had a high I.Q. and it did me no benefit.  My goals in life at that point were to own lot's of fish, preferably a pet store, and once my I.Q. was known, my goals in life were supplanted by my parents goals of me being anything I  (read: they)  wanted.  So my own personal happiness was not served by I.Q. tests.  I think I.Q. indicates that a person might have a higher ability to learn the types of material on I.Q. tests, as much as that knowledge is useful in society.  They of course, don't indicate kindness, compassion an ability to control one's mouth, or other types of handy skills.  So I.Q. is what you make of it.  If your high I.Q. helps you achieve something that brings you happiness, then so be it, but attaching any great meaning to a number like this is bound to lead you into some kind of disappointment.

What I'd really like to know is what is stupid?  Other than obvious mental retardation that prevents an individual from leading a normal daily life, I think stupid is rather a subjective tag as well as what is insane.

Quote from: "Willravel"

Quote from: "Sophus"Only if you're intellectually vain and stupid. If arrogance is rightfully earned then I don't see them being stupid for being arrogant. Then again maybe I'm just excusing my own intellectual vanity.

Arrogance is never rightfully earned. Pride, yes, confidence, yes; arrogance, never. Knowing that line between pride/confidence and arrogance may very well be a sign of intelligence, too.

Surely a man as smart as you would know that this is a mere matter of opinion. Preference in moral affairs does not depict ones intelligence or lack of. Was Hitler stupid for his hatred and killing of the Jews? No. It is for those reasons we call him evil. What made him stupid was his idiotic war tactics and overriding his genius generals plans. Had he been a military genius himself he would have had every right to be prideful, confident and arrogant in that matter. Only in his misjudgment of ability can we say Hitler was foolish for owning arrogance.
If a truly intelligent man's logic says arrogance works best for him in life then you can judge him morally. But as far as intellect goes he is still perfectly capable. Consistent confidence is just going to be perceived as arrogance anyways.

I once knew a guy who built his own bass guitar and amp from scratch. He then learned how to play the bass guitar (to a very good standard) in a matter of weeks. He knew four languages and was a member of Mensa. He also blew up a microwave because he put a tin of beans in it.

IQ is overrated.

Quote from: "Sophus"Surely a man as smart as you would know that this is a mere matter of opinion. Preference in moral affairs does not depict ones intelligence or lack of. Was Hitler stupid for his hatred and killing of the Jews? No. It is for those reasons we call him evil. What made him stupid was his idiotic war tactics and overriding his genius generals plans. Had he been a military genius himself he would have had every right to be prideful, confident and arrogant in that matter. Only in his misjudgment of ability can we say Hitler was foolish for owning arrogance.
If a truly intelligent man's logic says arrogance works best for him in life then you can judge him morally. But as far as intellect goes he is still perfectly capable. Consistent confidence is just going to be perceived as arrogance anyways.

Arrogant: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogant (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogant)

Pride and confidence are by definition equal to ability or worth whereas arrogance is an overbearing exaggeration of one's ability or worth. Hitler was confident he could take over Germany. Hitler was arrogant to believe that he could take over the world.

I actually scored really high on the IQ test I took when I was in first grade. I don't remember what the exact number was, but I was in the top 5% of the population for kids.

It hasn't really helped much, except to alienate me from my peers.

I think I'm about 130 but not sure, it's based on TV tests and so on which probably isn't to accurate and even if true isn't that high.

One thing I'm certain of, even if that is a respectable IQ it doesn't stop me saying or doing some really f***Ing stoopid things.

Kyu

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"One thing I'm certain of, even if that is a respectable IQ it doesn't stop me saying or doing some really f***Ing stoopid things.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages43.fotki.com%2Fv1382%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6145789%2Fdudewaitwhat-vi.jpg&hash=b765959ed618154cddee15263ae6af9b8825272e)

Same here. I've found IQ to be a measure of how interested people are in comparing their own level of intelligence to others (...the definition of what the IQ is supposed to tell you). I find grades in school do the same thing. People who, unprompted, talk about their GPA fall into the same category, as far as I'm concerned.

Intelligence should come out through deeds and presentation. Often, I find eloquence to be a much better gauge of intelligence than any standardized test. Command of a language is strongly positively correlated to level of intelligence, I've found (from my time being a teacher).

Quote from: "Wechtlein Uns"It hasn't really helped much, except to alienate me from my peers.

Exactly.  It can alienate people from their peers and create unrealistic and sometimes weird expectations in family members and others.  People are also more likely to call someone with a known high IQ a loser if they don't meet those expectations.

I have Asperger's Syndrome.  In person, I'm about as eloquent as a rock and prone to do weird things unexpectedly.  Over the years I've learned (more or less) how to effectively interact with other members of society.  Over decades, I've managed to piece together what most folks know naturally by junior high.  I could compete in the Special Olympics of social interaction.

Social ability is yet another aspect which is ignored along with emotional development though I think the two are not equivalent.  Emotional maturity doesn't equate to social ability and neither equate to IQ.

wow, kylyssa, you've really gotten the short end of the stick, huh?

I mean, I don't pretend to have the best life, but dayum... you must have had a really sucky childhood, huh?

Quote from: "Willravel"]
Arrogant: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogant (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogant)

Pride and confidence are by definition equal to ability or worth whereas arrogance is an overbearing exaggeration of one's ability or worth. Hitler was confident he could take over Germany. Hitler was arrogant to believe that he could take over the world.

Depends upon where you draw your definition from:

Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others (thefreedictionary.com)

It's just pride in its most narcissist form.

To the rescue, with the Oxford English Dictionary!

Quote from: "OED"arrogant, adj. Making or implying unwarrantable claims to dignity, authority, or knowledge; aggressively conceited or haughty, presumptuous, overbearing. (Used of men, their actions, manner, etc.)

Kylyssa and Wechtlein...

I am with you on this. I was never picked on in school and always had plenty of friends (which is overrated, until you find the real friends who don't let you down). But, thanks to my grades and perceived intelligence early on, my family has berated me since I was a kid anytime I didn't live up to some unreal expectations. Oh well, gotta love free will. It's my life, deal with it.

A big problem with IQ tests is that they only test for a few different types of intelligence. Those types that are easy to test for but not necessarily the most important types. You can't really blame those that make the tests, we always look for keys under the street light.  

Stephen Hawking, when asked what his IQ was, responded "I have no idea. People who boast about their IQ are losers."

I agree wholeheartedly. For this reason, I refuse to reveal my IQ when people ask. I also refuse to take IQ tests unless required by school or work.

Quote from: "Nazzer"Stephen Hawking, when asked what his IQ was, responded "I have no idea. People who boast about their IQ are losers."

I agree wholeheartedly. For this reason, I refuse to reveal my IQ when people ask. I also refuse to take IQ tests unless required by school or work.

I guess I'd probably take an IQ test, not a formal one, and I'd be vaguely interested in the results but they are, as Hawking implies, pretty meaningless ... I'm not stupid, in fact I'd go as fart as to say I'm fairly smart compared to some but I'm also an idiot a lot of the time, I know many people who are really clever (I mean really, really clever) and they can sometimes be really stupid, often say the most dumbfounding things. All an IQ test does is "prove" you're good at doing certain things that other people find difficult and what it says about you (probably) is you're good at tests but the people I am really impressed with is people who put that cleverness to use instead of blowing sunshine up their own and each other's arses.

Kyu

It's been my experience that a high I.Q. just helps someone do stupid things in more interesting ways.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"To the rescue, with the Oxford English Dictionary!

Quote from: "OED"arrogant, adj. Making or implying unwarrantable claims to dignity, authority, or knowledge; aggressively conceited or haughty, presumptuous, overbearing. (Used of men, their actions, manner, etc.)

 :pop: At least somewhat.

It's just a label.  People use all sorts of labels to define themselves (many of which are a derivative of insecurity).  IQ tests can give a false sense of superiority in some and block potential in others.  What purpose is there for testing kids?  For their parents to say their child is "gifted"?  Labels.

This is weird for so many reasons.  An IQ test is not really measuring intelligence, it's really measuring "intelligence ability" (this is why your score should really change much over time, even as you've done more "book-learning) and it tests nothing regarding common sense which is where most people fall short.  It's also strange because when they tested my son and his schoolmates in first grade or so the proctors were not allowed to reveal the scores, they instead used the scores to try to place the students in classe/courses better suited for their needs.  I don't think I've ever been tested, maybe they didn't do that back in the 70s/80s as routinely as it appears they do now.  I would think bragging about it would be setting yourself up for severe humilition when you are wrong about something....yikes, the guy/girl with the genious IQ is a dumbas*, hehe.  

Quote from: "Tanker"It's been my experience that a high I.Q. just helps someone do stupid things in more interesting ways.

LOL ... yeah, wasn't it Shermer who said that intelligent people defend stupid ideas intelligently?

Kyu

Quote from: "Tanker"It's been my experience that a high I.Q. just helps someone do stupid things in more interesting ways.

You get my vote for quote of the thread!  

I have an IQ a bit over 120, and I got nothing but mediocre grades in high school and I dropped out of college.

Dont trust IQ's. Actually, most serial killers have high IQ  

A high IQ is not a good indication of either intellect or usefulness.

Im about as average as can be. I know most of the people on these forums are usually well educated and very smart. [Big difference] If we are only here for the blink of an eye why aspire at all to use your intelect to help the world unless you truly enjoy it?  Why not figure out how to best enjoy your time on earth regardless of what it is as long as it doesnt hurt anyone. Everything has its possitive and negative and that includes both dumb and smart. Glad I'm in the middle.

I've taken a few aptitude tests and apparently one stated my IQ was roughly 147. I'm no idiot but I think these tests are hokey and people who use them as an authority of their intelligence should probably actually work on that. And I agree with what others have said. Just because you're smart doesn't mean you have done anything worthwhile in your life. I've met all kinds of dumbasses who contribute a lot to their communities. I've known plenty of "geniuses" who are so lazy that they would have starved to death in any other country long ago.

Quote from: "leftyguitarjoe"I have an IQ a bit over 120, and I got nothing but mediocre grades in high school and I dropped out of college.

Dont trust IQ's. Actually, most serial killers have high IQ  

Most serial killers are also right-handed.....

Quote from: "Big Mac"

Quote from: "leftyguitarjoe"I have an IQ a bit over 120, and I got nothing but mediocre grades in high school and I dropped out of college.

Dont trust IQ's. Actually, most serial killers have high IQ  

Most serial killers are also right-handed.....

Most are also male, white, and between the ages of 18 and 30. So unless you believe corelation = causation I think those that fall into any of those criteria will be ok.

Quote from: "Marke"A big problem with IQ tests is that they only test for a few different types of intelligence. Those types that are easy to test for but not necessarily the most important types. You can't really blame those that make the tests, we always look for keys under the street light.  :borg:

Out of curiosity, what are the most important types? I had been tested since grade school (my parents thought I was going to turn out to be weird I think...so I made frequent trips to see the men in white coats as a youngster  :hide:

Edited for spelling: *weird...not wired (which is a different problem)

Quote from: "Big Mac"I've known plenty of "geniuses" who are so lazy that they would have starved to death in any other country long ago.

I went to high school with a guy who was in Mensa (claims he scored so high the government pulled him in to some place to get tested for being criminally insane; he wasn't one to make up stories but he might have in this case because proactive measures like that seem odd esp since it was pre 9/11).  

Anyway, he worked as a ticket taker at a theater for quite a few years after high school.  I guess he finally decided that just a bit too boring went and got a pharmacy tech degree at a local community college.  This guy was really smart and probably should be working on a cure for cancer or figuring out string theory...but he just doesn't see a point in working that hard when in the end there is no point to it all.  Of course, I kinda agree with him on that one; I just can't stand working the mindless jobs because I get bored.

Yeah but you also make more money, enjoy a more secure life, and your contribution to society can benefit future generations. He wasted a gift because he didn't see that it wasn't his alone. What if Norman Borlag or Nikolai Tesla had that mentality? What if Buzz Aldrin, Louie Armstrong (I know you probably think I meant Neil but no, I meant the musician), Sean Connery, Beethoven, Voltaire, Stephen Hawking, Martin Luther King Jr., Richard Dawkins, Thomas Jefferson and so on had decided that hard work had no merit?

The world would be much poorer, darker, and frankly sadder if more people thought like that.

I think those who think there is no point to life are too uncreative or self-absorbed to see the vast richness of it all around them.

No offense, but the person that you knew in high school seems a little self-centered.

Whoever has the power to do good and chooses not to has no room to complain about the evil and wrong around him.

The problem with intelligence is that 80% of this country, it could just be high school, acts like they are an idiot because intelligence is "uncool".
      This thinking along with general conformity has taught me to just hate people in general, unless they show that they can hold a conversation without bringing up penis size or how much they can bench-press.

Quote from: "ShyFrog"The problem with intelligence is that 80% of this country, it could just be high school, acts like they are an idiot because intelligence is "uncool".
      This thinking along with general conformity has taught me to just hate people in general, unless they show that they can hold a conversation without bringing up penis size or how much they can bench-press.

I wouldn't have wanted to be raised where the reverse is true, like Japan. School for 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week with 3-5 hus of homework a night. Then the rediculous amount of stress they put on getting good grades and getting into a good college. I saw a documetary a few years about it, crazy. Thier suicide rate for trivial things like a B grade and not making honor roll is nuts.

I'm not so much concerned about the quantification of intelligence in the g-loaded traditional IQ sense, because it is fairly useless in practice, except perhaps by pedagogues and even then it is fairly a blunt instrument.  One might well sensibly group kids by demonstrable reading ability for their classes on reading, or demonstrable maths ability for their classes on maths, but grouping them by IQ (with the exception of enrichment and special education classes) is not going to help students to progress as their best pace.  The two exceptions I’ve mentioned lie in the tiny tails of the bell curve and are therefore probably worthy of special attention.

All that said, I'm more concerned about the stigma of intelligence in the general qualitative sense, regardless of any particular quantification.  Students can be ruthless about teasing the smart kids who use especially "grown-up" words and concepts, whereas they've nothing but praise for children who excel at, say, sports.  This was especially a problem where I grew up in Chicago, and I fear my children will face the same challenge.  

p.s. I've been a member of high-IQ societies before.  They are like clubs for people that lack real interests or hobbies, like atheism or non-stamp-collecting.

Quote from: "Big Mac"Yeah but you also make more money, enjoy a more secure life, and your contribution to society can benefit future generations. He wasted a gift because he didn't see that it wasn't his alone. What if Norman Borlag or Nikolai Tesla had that mentality? What if Buzz Aldrin, Louie Armstrong (I know you probably think I meant Neil but no, I meant the musician), Sean Connery, Beethoven, Voltaire, Stephen Hawking, Martin Luther King Jr., Richard Dawkins, Thomas Jefferson and so on had decided that hard work had no merit?

The world would be much poorer, darker, and frankly sadder if more people thought like that.

I think those who think there is no point to life are too uncreative or self-absorbed to see the vast richness of it all around them.

No offense, but the person that you knew in high school seems a little self-centered.

Whoever has the power to do good and chooses not to has no room to complain about the evil and wrong around him.

This is a common stereotype about high IQ people, that they should change the world or they are self-centered useless failures.

I got this a lot.  I got so much abuse for becoming a florist, a frequent volunteer, and a writer rather than curing cancer.  But guess what?  I'm autistic, my parents ran away from home and I, high fucking IQ and all, became homeless because the change was too traumatic.  I missed out on my National Merit full ride scholarship because I was too fucking stupid to figure out how to deal with my parents leaving me without notice.  And who's to say I would have accomplished anything earth-shaking with the biochemistry and physics degrees I had already begun to pursue?

Getting out of homelessness was hard enough regardless of the fact that I was reading Heinlein and whipping adults' asses at chess by age four.  Employers don't give a shit if you can do advanced math in your head, recite pi to a thousand decimal points, do a reverse phone look-up in under five minutes with just a phone book, or read a novel in half an hour if your clothes are wrinkled and you don't have an address.  And honestly, they don't give a shit about that kind of thing if you dress snappy and live in a house, either.  They care about how well you can feign normal human eye contact and how well you can deal with people.

IQ doesn't always come with great social skills, creative genius, or stunning charisma like the examples you gave were lucky enough to possess.  And even people with high IQ's need other people to help them along the way.

But you know what?  I'm not some selfish failure because I haven't shaken the earth with my brilliance.  I don't have that particular skill.  My intelligence has only been useful for parlor tricks, a bit of fun, and for occasionally writing a clever bit of something.  In my opinion, no one who is a decent human being is a failure.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Big Mac"Yeah but you also make more money, enjoy a more secure life, and your contribution to society can benefit future generations. He wasted a gift because he didn't see that it wasn't his alone. What if Norman Borlag or Nikolai Tesla had that mentality? What if Buzz Aldrin, Louie Armstrong (I know you probably think I meant Neil but no, I meant the musician), Sean Connery, Beethoven, Voltaire, Stephen Hawking, Martin Luther King Jr., Richard Dawkins, Thomas Jefferson and so on had decided that hard work had no merit?

The world would be much poorer, darker, and frankly sadder if more people thought like that.

I think those who think there is no point to life are too uncreative or self-absorbed to see the vast richness of it all around them.

No offense, but the person that you knew in high school seems a little self-centered.

Whoever has the power to do good and chooses not to has no room to complain about the evil and wrong around him.

This is a common stereotype about high IQ people, that they should change the world or they are self-centered useless failures.

I got this a lot.  I got so much abuse for becoming a florist, a frequent volunteer, and a writer rather than curing cancer.  But guess what?  I'm autistic, my parents ran away from home and I, high fucking IQ and all, became homeless because the change was too traumatic.  I missed out on my National Merit full ride scholarship because I was too fucking stupid to figure out how to deal with my parents leaving me without notice.  And who's to say I would have accomplished anything earth-shaking with the biochemistry and physics degrees I had already begun to pursue?

Getting out of homelessness was hard enough regardless of the fact that I was reading Heinlein and whipping adults' asses at chess by age four.  Employers don't give a shit if you can do advanced math in your head, recite pi to a thousand decimal points, do a reverse phone look-up in under five minutes with just a phone book, or read a novel in half an hour if your clothes are wrinkled and you don't have an address.  And honestly, they don't give a shit about that kind of thing if you dress snappy and live in a house, either.  They care about how well you can feign normal human eye contact and how well you can deal with people.

IQ doesn't always come with great social skills, creative genius, or stunning charisma like the examples you gave were lucky enough to possess.  And even people with high IQ's need other people to help them along the way.

But you know what?  I'm not some selfish failure because I haven't shaken the earth with my brilliance.  I don't have that particular skill.  My intelligence has only been useful for parlor tricks, a bit of fun, and for occasionally writing a clever bit of something.  In my opinion, no one who is a decent human being is a failure.

I agree 100%. I stood out at times when most of my comrades in the army didn't read for the joy of it, or enjoyed philisophical debat just for the fun of it, ect. My time in the army got me asked the questions "Why are you in the army?" or "Why are you a tanker?" (the tanker nick name is D.A.T pronounced Dat, meaning dumb ass tanker. Very sterotypical BTW). The answer was usually "Who else is gonna pay me to blow shit up?" Plus I now have the G.I. Bill.

People born with a arbitrarily higer I.Q. owe nothing to anyone but themselves. To society they owe nothing more then what everyone else owes, which is to be a normal member of their community.

Quote from: "Tanker"The answer was usually "Who else is gonna pay me to blow shit up?"

I would love to get paid to blow shit up.  I say that every time I watch MythBusters.

Quote from: "Tanker"

Quote from: "ShyFrog"The problem with intelligence is that 80% of this country, it could just be high school, acts like they are an idiot because intelligence is "uncool".
      This thinking along with general conformity has taught me to just hate people in general, unless they show that they can hold a conversation without bringing up penis size or how much they can bench-press.

I wouldn't have wanted to be raised where the reverse is true, like Japan. School for 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week with 3-5 hus of homework a night. Then the rediculous amount of stress they put on getting good grades and getting into a good college. I saw a documetary a few years about it, crazy. Thier suicide rate for trivial things like a B grade and not making honor roll is nuts.

Just an example that too much of a good thing is bad. I remember my brother's japanese room mate had a panic attack for getting an A- in his Spanish class. He acted like it was this horrible grade. That shit isn't healthy!