Happy Atheist Forum

The Discovery Channel (which I like, but take some stories with a grain of salt) just aired two very good specials about September 11, 2001. One "Inside The Twin Towers" was jarring, but accurate and good. The one now finishing up on the Pentagon, wasn't quite as good, but still ok.

Those who can see them, keep an eye out for them to air again.

Yesterday evening (20:00? - 23:00 CET) there was also a very good documentary about Osama Bin Laden on CNN. Unfortunately I only saw half of it.

I'm waiting for more 9/11 conspiracies to come out, I love hearing about them.

Quote from: "Big Mac"I'm waiting for more 9/11 conspiracies to come out, I love hearing about them.

Yeah, me too, but I can't stand trying to argue with conspiracy theorists. I have been doing quite a bit of that in other fourms and in general. Drives me batty.

A retrospective indictment of the Bush Administration:

Bush Porn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bc7Lu82BpY&mode=related&search=)

Quote from: "McQ"

Quote from: "Big Mac"I'm waiting for more 9/11 conspiracies to come out, I love hearing about them.

Yeah, me too, but I can't stand trying to argue with conspiracy theorists. I have been doing quite a bit of that in other fourms and in general. Drives me batty.

I love how people say a military jet did it and I ask them what kind of jet was it. They draw a blank look and stammer something like...."Uh...a Harrier?" Can't people just accept the fact that the terrorists just outwitted and overpowered lax regulations and even laxer guards? Ugh, the next person that says something about 9/11 being a conspiracy, I'm going to personally stab them in the gut.

True. Debating with Conspiracy theorists is annoying. Then again, watching them debate others can be fun...
It's quite ridiculous, really. Though the fact that terrorists did it doesn't give credit to attacking a random country...

As a conspiracy theorist, it's really about the same principles that make me an atheist. Skepticism, research, forming a theory, testing that theory, and coming to a verifiable conclusion. It should also be said that not all conspiracy theorists agree on some points. I've heard them all, everything from space aliens to the illuminati.

It's also about admitting we don't have all the answers. Where things like "Loose Change" go wrong is when they start presenting conjecture as fact. It ruins their credibility with discerning people. If anyone does want to discuss the finer points of what may or may not have happened on 9/11, I'd be fine having an open and friendly discussion.

False prophets brought down the towers and lead by Satan.

I've read a ton of stuff on the conspiracy of 9/11 and it makes me crazy.  I believe what happened, happened.  I hate Bush and his cronies as much as the next person, but I do not believe they had anything to do with it (that's the leading theory I've heard).

Of course, if we call Bush "Satan," I'll agree with Churchworker.  ;-)

Oh Fuck, Another one? Man I love those silly Theists!


Anyway, I do beleive that Bush and his cronies could have done more to prevent it, and that they have used the attacks to push their wars, which really have nothing to do with the attacks, but ignorant America doesn't read into things, and just accepts things at face value.


Do I think Bush (et. al.) did it? No, but I do believe they capitalized and are, in essence, both war and tragedy profiteers

Quote from: "Dai"Oh Fuck, Another one? Man I love those silly Theists!

Yeah, they're fun sometimes, aren't they?  And this one hears voices...  :lol:

Quote from: "Dai"Do I think Bush (et. al.) did it? No, but I do believe they capitalized and are, in essence, both war and tragedy profiteers

On that, we most assuredly agree.  Same with Guilianni.

I swear Rose, we are peas from the same Pod!

It absolutely sickens me. The way they use 9-11, the tragedy, to push legislation, that has nothin to do with 9-11.

Example; quite a while back, they were debating whether to legalize flag burning for protest. One of the arguments that was brought up was "was it not the American flag that flew high on top of the twin towers on September Eleventh?"

I just about simultaneously vomited and shit myself in disbelief, that people would capitalize on the suffering and tragedy of others, and use it to benefit their own ends.


This was during my more naive days.

Yup, 9/11 was a tragedy, but now it seems to be used more as a form of Nationalism. 'You don't want a compulsory minute of silence and compulsory prayer for 9/11? You aren't a Patriot!'
I don't live in the US myself, but apparently that happens. Also, seriously, 'Terrorists want Democrats to win', 'If you're against the war you don't want to avenge the deaths of all of those innocent civilians who died in 9/11'... Jeez, the Iraq War's killed more people than 9/11 already, how much vengeance do you want to get? Of course, you could instead try finding Bin Laden, etc, but nah, blowing up people in Iraq is more fun. Or something.

Please, I am a soldier in the U.S. Army.


I am also a liberal, an atheist, opposed to the Iraq War (We have business in Afghanistan, not Iraq), and a staunch opposer to Bush.

Let us remember that Bush first said finding Bin Laden was the utmost priority, only to state a few months later that finding Bin Laden was of no priority at all.

I've always wondered why the USA didn't invade Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq. The terrorists of 9/11 and Bin Laden and the funding for the attacks came from that country. The only thing that Iraq and Al-Qaeda have in common is the letter "Q".

One word:

OIL

Quote from: "Tom62"I've always wondered why the USA didn't invade Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq. The terrorists of 9/11 and Bin Laden and the funding for the attacks came from that country. The only thing that Iraq and Al-Qaeda have in common is the letter "Q".

Presupposing the official story, the al Qaeda broke ties with the Saudi government after they were turned down before Desert Storm to deal with the Iraqis. As for Iraq, we all know the invasion was planned years in advance by members of the PNAC, a neo-conservative think tank. It had nothing to do with 9/11, and any suggestions of ties were lies and misinformation intended to fool Congress and the American people inot buying the war.

...or somebody is a false prophet, lead by the devil.

(somebody stop me, please!)

 :lol:

QuoteTrue. Debating with Conspiracy theorists is annoying

CONSPIRACY WEARY....

Quote9/11'... Jeez, the Iraq War's killed more people than 9/11 already, how much vengeance do you want to

This isn't vengeance, as Iraq did not attack us, nor have anything to do with 9-11......or WMD.....OR al quaeda....Saddam loathed al qaeda.  wouldn't allow 'em into Iraq.  Oh, they are in Iraq NOOOWWWWWW

Quotecourse, you could instead try finding Bin Laden, etc

Actually, Bush had all of Bin Laden's fam flown out of USA on 9-12....those were the only planes in the sky that day.  NOrmally, fams of a suspect are questioned, like, got any info for us....

Bin Laden and Bush knew each other, had business dealings, BinLaden bailed Bush out of a jam once by buying up some company Bush was fucking up and gave him a nice profit.  I've forgotten the name but have it written down somewhere...i'll edit this tomorrow and throw it in.

Quote, blowing up people in Iraq is more fun. Or something.

NO it is profitable.  When Bush said Mission Accomplished, he was actually correct.  His mission was not the same as the USA citizens thought, tho, his mission was war profiteering, which has been HUGELY successful.  
 
GREAT FLICKS:

"Why We Fight"
"Iraq: For Sale"
and of course, Fahrenheit 911.

Quotecountry. The only thing that Iraq and Al-Qaeda have in common is the  q

so true...took america SO LONG to learn this, in part because of our corporate owned media...ONe of USA's hugest weaknesses is our media......it is a ho, and the right wing is the pimp.....
OOh, i just made that up.  Should i get a bumper sticker?  

QuoteI've always wondered why the USA didn't invade Saudi Arabia instead of

It is breathtaking that we didn't isn't it?  But the saudis are so in bed with Bush and the oil cartels.....It'd almost be domestic violence....

QuoteOIL

so true....i was so naive, i actually thought our oil prices would drop.  Can you believe the 500% profit increase of the oil companies at a time when all of america is getting soooo  squeezed by the price of oil...it is affecting everything....
mygawd......pigs at the trough, and not a scrap for us....

but even above and beyond the oil, there are bazillions being made by the war profiteers....the companies making the tanks, the hummers, the weapons, etc etc.  The contractors over there.  Thank gawd Iraq is finally starting to protest about Blackwater, since our media can't quite get enuff coverage on those gangsta thugs til AFTER Iraq complains...

Quote...or somebody is a false prophet, lead by the devil

the devil is in the bush!!!   Walk it off, McQ...
ha ha!


Iraq For Sale.....you gotta see it......creep ya right out.
Oh, and
"WHO KILLED THE  ELECTRIC CAR"
(speaks to the power of the oil cartel)

QuotePresupposing the official story, the al Qaeda broke ties with the Saudi government after they were turned down before

Willravel, you do not believe Saudi money funded Alqaeda?

QuoteIraqis. As for Iraq, we all know the invasion was planned years in advance by members of the PNAC, a neo-conservative think tank. It had nothing to do with 9/11, and any suggestions of ties were lies and misinformation intended to fool Congress and the American people inot buying the war.

You got that right!!!!!
Will, don't you wanna laff when they call PNAC a think tank???

Quote from: "tigerlily46514"Willravel, you do not believe Saudi money funded Alqaeda?

Presupposing the official story, it's hard to say.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3815179.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3815179.stm)

Not presupposing the official story, the funding came from multiple sources including, but hardly limited from Saudi Royals. A great deal of money was CIA and the Pentagon.

Quote from: "tigerlily46514"You got that right!!!!!
Will, don't you wanna laff when they call PNAC a think tank???

It's essentially what they were. Makes you wonder what idiot think tank is currently planning the next set of wars over a finite energy source.

QuoteThis isn't vengeance, as Iraq did not attack us, nor have anything to do with 9-11......or WMD.....OR al quaeda....Saddam loathed al qaeda. wouldn't allow 'em into Iraq. Oh, they are in Iraq NOOOWWWWWW

I know it isn't, I'm just referring to the fact that so many people call Iraq 'revenge for 9/11'. Seriously, even if it were, its gone a bit further. A body for an eye makes the whole world dead.

QuoteIt's essentially what they were. Makes you wonder what idiot think tank is currently planning the next set of wars over a finite energy source.

Well, i guess i tend to naively use the word "think" in a loftier, more positive way!!!  But scheming without regard to worthy safe outcomes
for our country --i suppose is still 'thinking'.....

It's not just about the oil.  Sure enuff, their profit margines are up 500% !!!  but there are even more pigs getting fatter.....

It really was Mission Accomplished...it really was....just not the mission we were led to believe.  It was a money making mission for Bush's  buddies.

AMericans don't realize the bazillions being made with just the supplies being sold to the army.  The company feeding the soldiers (no-it is not the army !) the company supplying water,and that does their laundry, and sends their trucks, guns, hummers and housing and tanks,etc.....THESE ITEMS ARE BEING SOLD AT A PHENOMINALLY HUGE PROFIT TO OUR SOLDIERS.

So many duties previously assigned to soldiers are contracted out at huge huge profits, to loyal bushies who have contributed to his campaigns.  It's been a while since i watched Iraq for sale and "Why we Fight" or studied this up in general, so i don't have much stats at the top of my head.

My head is so full of horrible information i can do nothing about.
Sometimes i feel the urge to stop knowing it...i have followed this for decades...  There seems to be nothing that can be done about any of this stuff...
I am both passionate and yet hopeless.  And yeah, i am active with a couple of worthy liberal groups, i have marched in the streets with 40,000 others against the war...but the right wing has all the power.  We can mostly sit and watch and try to point it out to a media that the right wing owns....

Far and away the most crminal of these 'contractors' is Blackwater.  The mercenaries over there whose CEO, (lost his name, I'm sure you already know who i mean...whathisface... he is a famous villian on al the liberal blogs...)being paid bazillions for this fairly criminal unit of mercenaries who have no rules, no laws, no accountability.  These 'soldiers' look just like the US Army to Iraqi citizens, and these thugs shoot up families and it is all allowed.  Few reports about these thugs ever make it into the mainstream news.  Blackwater has no rules at ALL.

IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE OIL......IT IS ABOUT THE WAR PROFITEERS SELLING THE SUPPLIES.  These no-bid contracts, all doled out to devout right wing supporters.  It is so screwed up it hurts my mind to follow along.

I think you're actually preaching to the choir on an atheist forum. That's gotta be a first.