Happy Atheist Forum

I was raised in a doomsday cult. It was all about unity and unconditional love, etc except that god was going to come down and clean everything up because the world is so negative and lost. They think they have it all figured out, that they're the only ones who know the "truth". They deny evolution, they deny most principles of cosmology as well. It makes me physically angry to see those that I love take on such stubborn, self-righteous beliefs that mock the endless efforts of humanity.

I cannot live my life in such falsehood, I cannot believe something that is in direct opposition to my observations and knowledge. I can clearly see the symptoms of a cult, particularly the nature of how the most personal aspects of one's life, (finance, diet, sexuality, etc) have been dictated. Growing up I always assumed it was true, and that one day some of these stories would happen to me. My naivety was expected, I presume.

I recently took a strong liking to science and I see the world in a completely different way (Thank you, Dr. Sagan). Everything I was told fell apart and I am now an atheist. I no longer feel "separate" nor do I shake my finger at the world like my parents and so many others. I see a new prospect when I think of the future, and yet my parents only see tragedy. It was a fight to go to college, it was a fight with myself to even realize that I was "going to make it that far".

I don't know what to do. These people have dedicated their entire lives to this. I feel that if I show the error of their ways, they will be near suicidal (or physically violent). Something has to give, and again, it makes me furious at that fact that my parents have put me and themselves into this situation. Their "views" for my future are unacceptable to me. It's my life and they are my parents, yet the strength of my relationship to them is at the mercy of my involvement in this cult...

I have no idea what to do. It seems like someone is going to have to lose...

Hugs to you. Must be a difficult situation. However, I would say that it is not your responsibility to show them the errors of their ways. If the church is truly cultlike, you will probably just end up alienating them. You mentioned that it was a fight to get into college. Exactly how old are you? Do you still live with your parents, or are you self-supporting?

Quote from: "Arthur Dent"I have no idea what to do. It seems like someone is going to have to lose...

I have no idea how to advise you on this ... even though I was brought up strictly Catholic with everyone else being the enemy (even other Christian faiths) and can identify in principle with the attitude but I never had to deal with that because my father, who was the REAL Catholic, died before we had the expected discussion and my mother, although Christian, doesn't really understand my POV ... I suspect she thinks I'll one day return to the fold and it's easier to let her think so.

Would it be an idea to start slowly feeding them small books or pamphlets that start to question such ideas ... perhaps leaving them around the house to be glanced at?

Welcome to the forum though and my sympathies for what you're going through.

Kyu

I'm sorry, I've got nothing to offer in the way of advice.  None of us knows your folks as well as you do.

I feel for you in one respect, that being that I have a few friends that become really down when I ask questions they can't answer, and I always worry that I might be putting too much pressure on them.  My parents are Christians, but don't go to church anymore, and I think it's just easier to let them alone.  My friends tend to be far more devout, though, and a few have a harmful relationship with the faith that I really want them to stop suffering through.

Like I said, that doesn't help, but we'll be here no matter how it goes down or even if it doesn't.  Oh, and welcome to the forums.

Whoa... That is a hard one. My gut instinct would be to say run the hell away - never look back. Cut all ties and never make contact ever again.

It is easy for me to say that because i've had an easy life. I can't possibly imagine what it must feel like to be in your position.

I wish you luck.

What frustrates me the most is their blind adherence to the current trends, they call them rules, of the cult, and the consequential expectancy that is placed on other members, particularly children. I've picked up on recent hints of racism, political propaganda and even social isolation in certain members. No matter how well the intentions, they are misplaced and without integrity. The basic logistics of some of the rules are simply absurd and irrational. They are clearly just beliefs, turned analogy, turned ritual, turned rule. I often wish to break them in sight of other members simply so that they would attempt to confront me and see for themselves.

And you'd think, how is this so compelling? When so many faucets of your personal life are dictated to you, along with all of the other members, your relations with others is more personal than a friendship; everyone feels like they are family. It's quite impressive actually, but having now realized the falseness upon which it is built, certain memories of my childhood make more sense, having been wrong to assume such trust.

I could write a book with all that I've learned from this experience. It has been both a beneficial and harmful experience, and lately I feel it has been teetering on the harmful side. The emotional and social damage was done in my younger years, but now, as I have said, the expectations are turning to the financial, political, sexual, etc.

I realize that few will have experience and ultimately advice to these ends, but just being able to vent and (safely) speak with someone about what I'm feeling. When I've hinted at my contention and doubt to other members, they become extremely uneasy, as if they should be "alerting" someone.

Science was definitely what pulled me away. It tells such a more elegant story and prospect than what I was told when I was younger. There's still an end of the world, but this time, it's NOT expected in my lifetime... I have begun to speak openly about evolution and science in general around other members, often with great enthusiasm. Some smirk condescendingly, others show the same anxiety I mentioned above; either way it only confirms my "closet-atheism", as Dawkin says.

When a member suggests that there is a god that favors a species, let alone a nation, and yet apparently does not understand the basics of evolution or cosmology, I can't help but realize something is very wrong...

If you need to just get away from it, a sure-fire way is to just join the armed forces. It'll also help pay for college when you're done. If you need to just tell them they're batshit crazy, I really don't know what to tell you... but, I'll agree with the others in that I have no real advice to give as I've never found myself (or anyone I know) in a situation like that. The weirdest thing by way of religions in my circle of friends is the one Quaker.  

Good luck, though. You've got support here, should you need it.

As I see it, your choices are to bite a bullet and go on as before for as long as needed, to get away from them and support yourself or that third choice that I can't quite think of. However, I'm not at all qualified to give anything resembling an educated advise here.

In any case, it will probably not be easy.

I wish you the best of luck.

Well Arthur Dent, of course you know the first rule is don't panic.  Sorry to be trite at a time like this, but as you've listed your worldview as "multiverser"  I'm guessing you might appreciate it.  And maybe taking a little humour into the situation might not be so bad.  First of, as far as the situation you describe, well yes, they are crazy cultists, but they have always been that way most likely and you have survived so far, so just because you are seeing things clearly now doesn't mean you can't still survive in this situation until you can escape, quietly, politely and furtively into your college education.  There are many great and compassionate minds here to befriend, help and assist you and they are not for the most part interested in controlling you or telling you how to believe.  Refreshing, no?  Hang tight, keep posting.  I reccommend a path of quiet non-violence towards cult members and allow them the freedom of their beliefs that you desire yourself.   And don't forget your towel.  It's handy to stuff in your ears when they start reciting that Vogon poetry.  

Quote from: "LARA"yes, they are crazy cultists, but they have always been that way most likely and you have survived so far,

Ignorance is bliss, eh? (Especially when reinforced in mass numbers) And the reason why it's lasted so long has been the simple fact that everyone is "waiting" for something to happen, living their lives in fear.

Quote from: "LARA"I reccommend a path of quiet non-violence towards cult members and allow them the freedom of their beliefs that you desire yourself.  

It's that confidence they place in their beliefs though that offends me, on multiple levels, (particularly when the same is expected of me). For instance, they are vegetarian because they believe that god breathed life into man, therefor all things that breathe are also holy and not for eating, which of course doesn't include fish, so they eat that...  :brick: I don't get how they can constantly sweep logic under the rug with a shrug of the shoulders, and yet expect hard-nosed (literal!) adherence to these ideas.

I'm ranting, I know, but again it's good to just see that I'm not on the crazy end of these arguments with my family, etc.

Quote from: "LARA"And don't forget your towel.  It's handy to stuff in your ears when they start reciting that Vogon poetry.   ;)

Quote from: "Arthur Dent"I have no idea what to do. It seems like someone is going to have to lose...

Sounds like it's going to be them, unfortunately. That's what happens when people don't now how to do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. Very unfortunate. At least you know you have people to talk to...

Quote from: "myleviathan"Sounds like it's going to be them, unfortunately. That's what happens when people don't now how to do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. Very unfortunate. At least you know you have people to talk to...

And it's a shame because the better members are very good people, they're active in their communities and everything, but like you said, it's not just for the sake of doing it; it's because we're commanded, or we're obligated by god, etc.

The original message that drove all of this madness was fairly pure, as far as religion goes. I wasn't born at the time, but it was like a single man came into a  church and gave them a challenge to achieve purpose, to serve god, to reach a higher level. People bit, and they bit hard. Religion was for pansies, those wishing to sin and get away with it, those afraid of hell, etc. This was so much more direct and intimate. People felt that only they were in the know and that what they were doing was so much more powerful and meaningful. It was the ultimate foundation for a cult.

The whole "plan for humanity" they believe in simply pisses me off; it's so small-minded and defeatist. It's like everyone is simply waiting for some sort of messiah to come and kick the crap out of everyone we have been told to wave our finger at. And just like Bill Maher said, "What's he waiting for?"

And the story of science, and our pursuit thereof, is so much more philosophical than anything I've been told in this cult. I'd hate to see some big angry jesus come down and wipe out a race or a ethnicity, end science, etc. These people embrace it.

Quote from: "Arthur Dent"I'd hate to see some big angry jesus come down and wipe out a race or a ethnicity, end science, etc.

Big, hairy Jesus - be lucky it's long since dead  
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwatchstuff.com%2F2007%2F10%2F02%2Fhulk-outline.jpg&hash=e0b1e3ccdb105c0676b6695181162dad9407d231)

oO(I gotta make one of those black framed images of this, yes?)

/hijack

Quote from: "Asmodean"oO(I gotta make one of those black framed images of this, yes?)

[rehijack]

DIY Demotivators (http://diy.despair.com/motivator.php)

[/rehijack]

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "Asmodean"oO(I gotta make one of those black framed images of this, yes?)

[rehijack]

DIY Demotivators (http://diy.despair.com/motivator.php)

[/rehijack]

:D

I attended "class" this past weekend and we were asked why pride is bad and why we have to submit to god and obey god. It was a rather loaded set of questions considering the real question should have been IS pride bad and DO you have to submit to god. as described by the scriptures.

I was asked directly to answer these questions and I couldn't even speak. I was in such stanch disagreement that I just froze. These people assume the scriptures are true and from the erroneous start, the flood gates of cultist principles have been expounded upon. This is seriously becoming dangerous and harmful.

Certain phrases came out such as "we're nothing compared to god, we are slaves for him, even if we don't agree with it or want to do it" and "the moment you don't fear god is the moment you are proud and not submissive" It's a frightening prospect considering these people are the ones describing who god is and what he is like (a war god mostly).

It's like those kids who enforce elementary school rules, on behalf of the teachers, because it makes them feel good and feel a sense of power.

I need to start speaking up, projecting the worth of being an independent thinker, to show the likely hood and the motives behind why they may have been lied to. It's terrifying though because the leader built in protections against that.
"They will call you silly religious people, but you serve god, not man. Only he matters" He literally bred stubbornness and fundamentalism into their heads.

It really sucks to find out that everyone you grew up loving would turn their back on you in a heart beat in the name of emotional, manipulative, and illogical bullshit. I have so many close friends I wish I could openly talk to about this, but none are willing.

Quote from: "Arthur Dent"I need to start speaking up, projecting the worth of being an independent thinker, to show the likely hood and the motives behind why they may have been lied to. It's terrifying though because the leader built in protections against that.
"They will call you silly religious people, but you serve god, not man. Only he matters" He literally bred stubbornness and fundamentalism into their heads.

I think you need to think very carefully before you do so ... obviously your current mindset and your community's do not mesh and if you speak out you are going to find yourself increasingly isolated so you have to decide what it is you value most and go with that because there are going to be consequences either way.

Kyu

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"

Quote from: "Arthur Dent"I need to start speaking up, projecting the worth of being an independent thinker, to show the likely hood and the motives behind why they may have been lied to. It's terrifying though because the leader built in protections against that.
"They will call you silly religious people, but you serve god, not man. Only he matters" He literally bred stubbornness and fundamentalism into their heads.

I think you need to think very carefully before you do so ... obviously your current mindset and your community's do not mesh and if you speak out you are going to find yourself increasingly isolated so you have to decide what it is you value most and go with that because there are going to be consequences either way.

Kyu

I could always play the innocent role; there are plenty of things to poke a stick at with shear curiosity.

It's ridiculous though because even just asking "but why?" can be met with "because we are commanded. It doesn't always have to make sense to us at this time." and people general look at you like you should be fully accepting of what they say, after all you're here aren't you?

When your raised and told, "you have to be celibate, you can't eat meat, you're not part of the world, you were chosen for a special purpose, you must give a portion of your income, you must be against homosexuality, drinking, sex, certain music, etc, etc, etc," I don't know how the hell they expect you to just accept it and expect it to even fit everyone's personality. It's like pain and guilt are inherent and I know one member who was recently suicidal having broken a particular rule.

Quote from: "Arthur Dent"When your raised and told, "you have to be celibate, you can't eat meat, you're not part of the world, you were chosen for a special purpose, you must give a portion of your income, you must be against homosexuality, drinking, sex, certain music, etc, etc, etc," I don't know how the hell they expect you to just accept it and expect it to even fit everyone's personality. It's like pain and guilt are inherent and I know one member who was recently suicidal having broken a particular rule.

Damn! I don't have enough money as is ... I have nothing against gays (apart from their lamentable hijacking of the word), I love drink (I'm big into real ale), sex and your community would sure hate my music  

Kyu