Happy Atheist Forum

This is just for a little bit of fun. Lets pretend for a second that god/heaven/hell does exist, and everything in the bible is true. (i.e. god is an evil genocider.) Lets say that god gives you a choice when you die. You could:

1. Go to heaven and be happy, but be with evil god and all of his followers who follow the bible and so forth... so be basically just be going against all of your beliefs... if your atheist, anyway.

2. Or go to hell and refuse god, stay true to your morals, but burn in pain forever. :)

Trick question.

If there is a god, and it's provable by, well, talking to it like you've posited, then our positions as atheists are null and void. We would have to default to believers, and therefore burning in hell for eternity would serve no purpose (aside from being stubborn and acting like the religious types we so often rail against).

I mean, I refuse god because I'm a thinking person who doesn't believe in fairy tales, not because I think s/he/it's an asshole.

well, i meant that if god was real, then the bible would be to, so by going to heaven you'd be, like ''agreeing'' with the murder of thousands in the bible, and yet claiming that god still loves you. Eh...

but i get what your saying, haha, your right

If it were all real, the bible and everything, and God wanted to give me a choice, the choice should be obvious.  Me burning in hell for all eternity isn't going to save anyone else, God isn't going to change his mind, He's perfect and I have no right to question his will because it is divine and I am but a mortal man, etc.  Can't pick and choose, if the bible is right, it's ALL right, and God is benevolent, the good guy, and for some reason in this hypothetical He's giving me the choice.

No one in this world (except the judgmental types) will know you're in hell, you won't be a martyr for any causes, choosing heaven isn't violating an atheists 'beliefs' because if they're a proper atheist those beliefs changed the second God decided to have a personal chat with them, and so on.

Heaven.  Because hell DEFINITELY gets you nothing.  I'll take this opportunity to say Satanists are stupid, because they believe everything in the bible then rally behind the losing side.  See, if anyone believes in all that stuff, you' think they'd at least want to be on the winning side.   :D

IF there were gods and IF there were heavens and hells and IF I was allowed to smoke and have sex with strangers in hell, what would I possibly want in heaven?  

Easy.  I'd go for heaven.  Being more than a bit hedonistic, it would seem that burning in eternal pain is a worst case scenario to be avoided at all costs.  Plus, I've noticed that unbroken screaming inhibits my ability to imbibe.

Well, someone has to fuel the furnaces in hell, right? And someone has to turn the spits on which the sinners roast. And there has to be an armada of supervisers to check that sinner-kebabs are just right. And with the ever-increasing amount of sinners, they HAVE to be hiring with benefits.  :D ) is supposed to be "provided for" by "Him"

No surprise that I'm torn on this one... me, on the fence?  Naw.

On the one had, if it turns out that all of their fairy tales are real and there is a god and he's as benevolent as the friendlier of the Christians say he is... I'd tuck my tail between my legs, admit that I was wrong, and ask his forgiveness, pointing out that I obviously used the brain he gave me to decide for myself what is right and what is wrong.  The benevolent god these friendly Christians describe would surely chuckle and forgive me, right?  Then at least I'd get to see my mom and dad again.   :cool:   Besides, I wouldn't want to spend eternity with the same people who've made me miserable here on earth.

SO you see, I've got problems.  

well if those sthing were real, and I had to choose, Id choose being with annoying people over torture and burning anytime...

If you choose hell, you're just trying to sound strong on your principles. By definition, hell is the worst thing that can happen to you. Even if you must kiss up daily to God (who did many evil things) in heaven, it's incomparible to hell. Choosing hell is stupid.

Of course, if the options were to exist in a state of happiness in heaven with a God whom you believe did evil things versus dying a permenant death (not existing), things would be different. I might actually consider not existing, depending on what goes on in Heaven. Though, even in this case I would probably choose heaven because I would love to learn the truths of the universe and to hear an explaination why God did the things he claimed to have done from his own mouth.

And what's wrong with being sound on principles?

That's an argument made by religious folks... "Oh, when you find out we're right, you'll want to go to heaven because hell is too awful."  That's the "there's not atheists in foxholes" argument.

The bottom line is that NO ONE knows for sure what happens when life ends other than this physical life ends.  I'd like to think I'll stay true to my beliefs and principles, regardless.  

The most interesting aspect of this is that heaven, the way Christians describe it, would be insufferably boring for humans. I can't remember who first posited that, but it makes sense. We dig difference, drama, dissatisfaction, dilemma, destruction, dissonance and debauchery. So that poses a problem. Either:

1) Heaven does not include all the aspects of human existence that I mentioned above in such a wonderful display of alliteration, and therefore we miss those things, are not truly happy, and heaven is not "heaven."

or

2) We don't miss those things and are perfectly happy, but if that is the case, you would no longer be "you" but a "you-for-heaven" and thereby not be the same person who lived a mortal life, making human decisions and having human emotions, and, logically, "you" would not be going to heaven at all.

Then again, Christianity has never really had too much of a problem overlooking simple yet glaring logical fallacies and inconsistencies.

Wu.

...Not to mention the fact that happiness and un-happiness are defined by each other. If you've never been down, how do you know that you're up? If you haven't been down for one "eternity", how do you know you are still "happy"?

Another pretty obvious sinkhole of the afterlife is the fact that it is generally very hard to torture something that does not have nervous system with fire, knives or pretty much any other torture device imaginable, thus, Hell is just a pointless pool of molten magma.

Quote from: "Asmodean"...Not to mention the fact that happiness and un-happiness are defined by each other. If you've never been down, how do you know that you're up? If you haven't been down for one "eternity", how do you know you are still "happy"?

Another pretty obvious sinkhole of the afterlife is the fact that it is generally very hard to torture something that does not have nervous system with fire, knives or pretty much any other torture device imaginable, thus, Hell is just a pointless pool of molten magma.

Eh, not sure I find that convincing. If we're talking about a logically impossible situation, then we can't cherry pick where to use logic when examining the logistics of it. There's no logical way we can burn forever and ever, amen, so there's no reason to presuppose a nervous system. A lot of Christian apologists say that hell isn't physical torture, anyway; it's being removed from God's light which is, apparently, the worst thing imaginable. Personally, I can think of a few things worse on orders of magnitude, but that's just me.  

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Personally, I can think of a few things worse on orders of magnitude, but that's just me.  :D oO(Or was sin allowed in Heav'n?)

Quote from: "Asmodean"Another pretty obvious sinkhole of the afterlife is the fact that it is generally very hard to torture something that does not have nervous system with fire, knives or pretty much any other torture device imaginable, thus, Hell is just a pointless pool of molten magma.

Another strike against heaven, Is the question of how can a person "enjoy" it knowing some of their dead relatives are burning in hell. Your memories would have to wiped out. Heaven wouldn't really be an eternal life, it would be a new "life"

Quote from: "Msblue"Your memories would have to wiped out. Heaven wouldn't really be an eternal life, it would be a new "life"

In which case, if the same applied to Hell, then sin has no real consequence - sort of like most sins don't in real life. If, on the other hand, we still had our memories in Hell, then Hell would be the real life after death in the sense that I would still be me after getting there and would thus "live on"

As stated...I'd go with heaven.  Nothing positive would come of my torture....it's not like god would feel bad and change his ways...so at least I could learn more about the "whys" of the world in heaven.  I'm not sure how it would be possible for me to be happy in a heaven like that...unless you want to also assume that going to heaven takes away free will; which might affect my answer, or at least make it harder.  Basically, the heaven you describe sounds like mental hell to me and would only be just a bit more tolerable than physical pain.

Now, there are those who believe that hell is either the absence of god or ceasing to exist; which basically both mean the same since god is often associated by believers with life.  If I had the choice between serving an evil god in heaven or being subjected to this less literal hell....I'd choose hell.  The OP situation just has me choosing how far I want to dial my own level of pain, viewing hell in a less literal manner is where we get a chance to stand by principles.  It makes it the question, would you trade in your principles to avoid not existing even if you knew there is a god that disagrees with your views.

Realizing that there are arguments which basically state that if a god does what we view to be evil then it is in fact good because god is in charge...I don't think that just because something has a lot of power justifys it getting to decide right and wrong without reason.  If I have solid reasoning for my prinicples and come across god who says my way or the highway without providing reason...that highway is looking pretty good.

I'd want to check out both first to make the right decision. There are several indications that state heaven may not be as great as all christians think it is.

"You go to heaven for the climate; hell for the company."

 ~Samuel Clemens

Hoo Ha. We should stand up to the bully no matter how big he is. Besides, after being on fire for the first three billion years I don't think it would be quite as painful. I vote hell!

Given that I could never bend a knee to such an appalling monster I don't think I'd have much choice ... I mean even if I pretended the bloody thing would know because, being all-powerful all-knowing 'n all that jank, it could tell what I was thinking.

Given the choice (assuming it couldn't read minds and so on) I'd choose Heaven, form an underground resistance movement with the aim of replacing "God" with a benevolent dictatorship and ultimately a democracy    

Kyu

Maybe God can read minds and just doesn't care until it gets serious, he did wait for Satan to build a throne higher than his, if I recall.  That speaks of both free will and a certain amount of leeway on the sin thing.  Weird, huh?

"If there were an afterlife, surely an atheist would have broken it by now..." ~ Me