Happy Atheist Forum

Interesting choice.  I can't help but think this has to hurt his campaign.  To me it's a too-obvious ploy to try to grab the disgruntled Hillary supporters, and after Obama's speech last night I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot less of those than there were.

Old guy who might not live through the presidency picks young chick with less than 2 years' experience as governor.  Who's gonna pick up the 3:00 a.m. call?

She's got this whole Tiny Fey thing going on.

The funny part? She's clearly a secret Democrat. She stands up to other Republicans, even attacking them and getting them replaced, she believes that climate change is a threat to the planet and does things about it, she believes that gays shouldn't be discriminated against (though she's still against gay marriage)... it kinda sounds like the description of a liberal. Oh, did I mention she publicly admitted that she used to smoke weed?

McCain is headed towards the center at the speed of light because he's finally realized that the conservative right is no longer a viable base after Bush decimated it. The longer the conservative right is ignored, the more power liberals and free thinkers can get. This, my friends, is a good sign.

Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted by the choice.  Anything that gets us closer to President Obama is a good thing!

Linky, linky...  I'm kinda thinking this was a pretty lackluster thing for McCain to do in an attempt to try to take some of the wind outta the sails of the Obama nomination/VP pick/Democrat convention.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/29/ready-to-lead-mccain-taps-alaska-gov-palin-as-vp/

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/013077.php

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/013076.php

I just started reading about her but, from what I understand she a creationist.  

From an email from www.MoveOn.org (http://www.moveon.org) (you can get free stickers and buttons from them):

[spoiler:10l1nfmr]Dear MoveOn member,
Yesterday was John McCain's 72nd birthday. If elected, he'd be the oldest president ever inaugurated. And after months of slamming Barack Obama for "inexperience," here's who John McCain has chosen to be one heartbeat away from the presidency: a right-wing religious conservative with no foreign policy experience, who until recently was mayor of a town of 9,000 people.
Huh?
Who is Sarah Palin? Here's some basic background:

She was elected Alaska's governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage. She has no foreign policy experience.1

Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.2

She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. 3

Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.4

She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.5

She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered speciesâ€"she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.6
How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.7
This is information the American people need to see. Please take a moment to forward this email to your friends and family.
We also asked Alaska MoveOn members what the rest of us should know about their governor. The response was striking. Here's a sample:
She is really just a mayor from a small town outside Anchorage who has been a governor for only 1.5 years, and has ZERO national and international experience. I shudder to think that she could be the person taking that 3AM call on the White House hotline, and the one who could potentially be charged with leading the US in the volatile international scene that exists today. â€"Rose M., Fairbanks, AK
She is VERY, VERY conservative, and far from perfect. She's a hunter and fisherwoman, but votes against the environment again and again. She ran on ethics reform, but is currently under investigation for several charges involving hiring and firing of state officials. She has NO experience beyond Alaska. â€"Christine B., Denali Park, AK
As an Alaskan and a feminist, I am beyond words at this announcement. Palin is not a feminist, and she is not the reformer she claims to be. â€"Karen L., Anchorage, AK
Alaskans, collectively, are just as stunned as the rest of the nation. She is doing well running our State, but is totally inexperienced on the national level, and very much unequipped to run the nation, if it came to that. She is as far right as one can get, which has already been communicated on the news. In our office of thirty employees (dems, republicans, and nonpartisans), not one person feels she is ready for the V.P. position.â€"Sherry C., Anchorage, AK
She's vehemently anti-choice and doesn't care about protecting our natural resources, even though she has worked as a fisherman. McCain chose her to pick up the Hillary voters, but Palin is no Hillary. â€"Marina L., Juneau, AK
I think she's far too inexperienced to be in this position. I'm all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn't done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain's part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he'll get our vote by putting "A Woman" in that position.â€"Jennifer M., Anchorage, AK
So Governor Palin is a staunch anti-choice religious conservative. She's a global warming denier who shares John McCain's commitment to Big Oil. And she's dramatically inexperienced.
In picking Sarah Palin, John McCain has made the religious right very happy. And he's made a very dangerous decision for our country.
In the next few days, many Americans will be wondering what McCain's vice-presidential choice means. Please pass this information along to your friends and family.
Thanks for all you do.
â€"Ilyse, Noah, Justin, Karin and the rest of the team
Sources:

1. "Sarah Palin," Wikipedia, Accessed August 29, 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin)
2. "McCain Selects Anti-Choice Sarah Palin as Running Mate," NARAL Pro-Choice America, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17515&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=1 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17515&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=1)
3. "Sarah Palin, Buchananite," The Nation, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17736&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=2 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17736&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=2)

4. "'Creation science' enters the race," Anchorage Daily News, October 27, 2006
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17737&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=3 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17737&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=3)
5. "Palin buys climate denial PR spinâ€"ignores science," Huffington Post, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17517&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=4 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17517&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=4)
6. "McCain VP Pick Completes Shift to Bush Energy Policy," Sierra Club, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17518&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=5 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17518&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=5)
"Choice of Palin Promises Failed Energy Policies of the Past," League of Conservation Voters, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17519&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=6 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17519&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=6)
"Protecting polar bears gets in way of drilling for oil, says governor," The Times of London, May 23, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17520&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=7 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17520&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=7)
7 "McCain met Palin once before yesterday," MSNBC, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=21119&id=1366 ... pCG19x&t=8 (http://www.moveon.org/r?r=21119&id=13661-9306210-OpCG19x&t=8)[/spoiler:10l1nfmr]

Quote from: "Willravel"She's got this whole Tiny Fey thing going on.

The funny part? She's clearly a secret Democrat. She stands up to other Republicans, even attacking them and getting them replaced, she believes that climate change is a threat to the planet and does things about it, she believes that gays shouldn't be discriminated against (though she's still against gay marriage)... it kinda sounds like the description of a liberal. Oh, did I mention she publicly admitted that she used to smoke weed?

McCain is headed towards the center at the speed of light because he's finally realized that the conservative right is no longer a viable base after Bush decimated it. The longer the conservative right is ignored, the more power liberals and free thinkers can get. This, my friends, is a good sign.

Maybe I'm missing the sarcasim because I don't know who Tiny Fey is...or my sources are wrong....but from what I have read about her, so far, she is about as far right as you can get...anti-abortion rights, pro creationism in schools, anti-environment etc.

Consdiering McCain's age, we almost need to assume the VP will get bumped up to President...as much as I'd like to see a woman in that place of power, I'm a little worried about this one.  We don't need an unqualified female being an excuse for those that are anti-women to say "I told you so" then it be a long time before another woman has a chance to make it to the presidency.  Choosing a woman was a good political move for McCain, but there are a lot of other women who would have been much better picks.

This choice totally shocked me. It seemed to come out of no where but that could have just been me. I'm not sure it could help his campaign much though. It helps the age issue I guess. But I'm not sure the American people can trust her to take control if McCain bites the dust, which everyone seems afraid of because of his age.

Quote from: "Willravel"The funny part? She's clearly a secret Democrat. She stands up to other Republicans, even attacking them and getting them replaced, she believes that climate change is a threat to the planet and does things about it, she believes that gays shouldn't be discriminated against (though she's still against gay marriage)... it kinda sounds like the description of a liberal. Oh, did I mention she publicly admitted that she used to smoke weed?

From what I've read about her, she seems very right-wing. Will, I'm just curious, where did you read about her liberal side? I only read a couple articles on her so I probably missed something.

Apparently I didn't have the whole story on Palin. A friend of mine that own's a web company in Anchorage said that she was a centrist, and cited the weed and such. Now, though, I can see that she's clearly a neo-con... creationist and all.

McCain didn't even want to pick Palin. He wanted Liebermann, but when the conservative Right heard that their champion might pick a (GASP) former Dem with pro-choice tendencies, they went haywire. And, voila: Palin for VP.

New York Times story (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31reconstruct.html?ex=1377921600&en=91f7f1f6a9301ee1&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink).

I guess the conservative abstinence only "values" didn't work out so well.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1318541.aspx

Okay, this is crass, but I have to say it because it makes me chuckle.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics8.nytimes.com%2Fimages%2F2008%2F09%2F03%2Fus%2F03caucus_mccain_533b.jpg&hash=e32db8a26bd99b8ee0e535fb9448b84e1bb5f2f5)

I can't decide if the one on the right is Cindy McCain, or a lost transvestite.

*rimshot*

Wasn't there some noise about her daughter being pregnant or something? What does it matter to her being a competent VP if her daughter is pregnant anyways..?

Bleh! I hereby give up trying to understand the US government's workings  

Quote from: "Asmodean"Wasn't there some noise about her daughter being pregnant or something? What does it matter to her being a competent VP if her daughter is pregnant anyways..?

Bleh! I hereby give up trying to understand the US government's workings  

Well.. Palin is against sex ed in school for starters.  So there are some grumblings that maybe she isn't the best example of why abstinence only education should be the standard.  

Her teen aged daughter is pregnant but living in what seems like a fairly adequate family situation that lots of other teen mothers don't have.  While Palin was in charge she cut a chunk of funding for an organization whose sole purpose was to provide something like 18 months of assistance to pregnant teens.  So there's some sillyness going on or she's kinda lacks compassion for those who don't want to have an abortion but don't have the support and experience to get through their situation.

The funniest thing that I can think of so far regarding this whole situation, is that for YEARS the conservatives in the US seemed to go outta their way to make things harder for professional women who wanted have a family as well.  Blocking or hindering legislation that was supposed to help working women who have children (subsidizing childcare at work, tax write offs for baby sitters or something) while all the time saying that women needed to choose between professional life/family life and degrading women who wanted to do both and were asking for help in doing so.  So now we're going to see a woman with a large family with two children who might need some special attention (Palin's youngest kid with downs syndrome as well as her pregnant daughter) and now she's putting herself into a situation where she might not be around to as much hands on parenting.  Its odd that suddenly the conservative movement has suddenly embraced what seems like a fairly feminist view.

Her daughter, Bristol, is indeed five months pregnant, but hey, the father has agreed to marry her, so now everyone is so happy for the young expectant couple...  

I just can't help having visions of large, blue-suited men in dark glasses showing up on the young man's porch late some night with a couple of shotguns...

Oh... It's kinda' like turning a frown upside down, isn't it..?  :D

Here's a quick video about her attempt to ban books.

[youtube:2e8gktdk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1kLecUOmlY[/youtube:2e8gktdk]

QuoteSince Mrs Palin’s nomination as John McCain’s Republican running-mate 11 days ago, her social and religious beliefs have become subjected to intense scrutiny. As a supporter of the teaching of Creationism in schools, an opponent of abortion â€" even in cases of rape or incest â€" and a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, she threatens to reopen the culture war that has scarred American politics for a quarter of a century.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4720440.ece

I hear Canada is nice?!? One article says she pushed it the other says she hasn't.Either way she believes Jesus rode dinosaurs.I think that's a bit scary.

QuoteAccording to an October 2006 profile in the Anchorage Daily News, Palin opposes stem cell research, physician-assisted suicide, and state health benefits for same-sex partners.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/08/30/a_valentine_to_evangelical_base/

http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm

It's difficult to decide which is more absurd: the over the top media shout that alternates between Palin praise and Palin ridicule, or the deer-in-the-headlights former beauty queen herself, who clearly is only starting to realize the depth of the shit in which she is wading. Because she is a token in every sense of he word, it's hard to see her as truly dangerous; her handlers do not intend for her to have anything like real power. She is there to serve as both beacon and smoke screen; she attracts the basic christians and provides a feminine fog filter for the pro-war, pro-hunting contingents' agendas.

For some (including myself) it took a few days for the full impact of the cynicism of the Palin pick to sink in. But as if the grand opera of Minority Candidate vs Substantial Woman Candidate that the press fed voraciously on during the Democratic primary season wasn't enough, the Repubs have chosen both femaleness and inspiring biblical fundamentalism as their a la carte choices for their election season menu.

Even if their choices do not yield victories, both parties have made history, at least with those who shave things fine in the "first of" categories. But the Republicans, with their choice of a woman who cannot possibly lead with a will and an intellect of her own if called upon to so so, have made the ultimate "first" female choice.

How Republican of them.

Hell, right now, she's holed up at home in Alaska with a crew of McCain's folks tutoring her on everything from Iran's nuclear stance, Iraq war, the difference between Hizballah and Al Qaeda, the national debt, foreign trade imbalance... so much more.  The only thing she seems to know more about than McCain is fuel.

I read the cover article on Newsweek today (9/15 issue (http://www.newsweek.com/id/157696/page/1)) and I'm beyond shocked at their choice of Palin.  Token is exactly correct.

She has enough scandals in her political past to rival politicians who have been around for 10 years or more.  Her flipflop on the Bridge to Nowhere, the ongoing investigation into her squabble with her BIL, and the nepotism... wow.  And now, McCain's camp is trying to hurry up and hush the investigation on the BIL case.

I know no one is squeaky clean, especially in politics, but this woman... wow.  

Quote from: "Msblue"Here's a quick video about her attempt to ban books.

[youtube:74unvht8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1kLecUOmlY[/youtube:74unvht8]

Okay, I work in a library, and this is ridiculous. I'm also a licensed English teacher, and this is even more ridiculous.

Oh, and I'm a semi-intelligent person who believes information should be free, so it's absolutely ridiculous.

Banning books? Having books removed from libraries? Honestly, the left eye of the librarian side of me is twitching like crazy right now. I've sent the link to this video to the library listserv just in case some of the other staff members haven't been exposed to this. If there's one thing we can all rally around, regardless of political affiliation or religious conviction, it's the complete and utter disdain and detestation of censorship.

Quote from: "Carlos Franqui"[Palin / McCain / Bush / the GOP] can destroy everything, except for books. [She / he / it] may censor, ban or even burn them, but the ideas contained in books can never be destroyed. As José Martí once said, paper trenches are stronger than those built in stone."

Carlos was referring to Castro, incidentally. I just changed it to make a point.

In case anyone's interested, here's a little list of quotes on the same subject. Book burning. Not Castro.

[spoiler:74unvht8]"The paper burns, but the words fly away."
Ben Joseph AKIBA
Jewish Palestinian religious leader (A.D. C. 50- C.135)

"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them."
Ray BRADBURY
U.S. science-fiction writer (1920-)

"There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches."
Ray BRADBURY
U.S. science-fiction writer (1920-)

"Somewhere the saving and putting away had to begin again and someone had to do the saving and keeping, one way or another, in books, in records, in people's heads, any way at all so long as it was safe, free from moths, silverfish, rust and dry rot, and men with matches."
Ray BRADBURY
U.S. science-fiction writer (1920-)

"When the regime ordered
Books with dangerous knowledge
To be burned in public and everywhere
Oxen were forced to pull, carts with books
to the bonfires, one of the persecuted poets
discovered one of the best
studying the list of the burned
disconcerted, that his books were forgotten.
He rushed to his desk, flying on wings of rage
and wrote a letter to the the authorities.
Burn me! he wrote with a quick stroke
Burn me! don't do this to me! Do not spare me!
Have I not always reported the truth in my books?
Yet now you treat me as were I a liar!
I command you: Burn me! "
Bertolt BRECHT
Poem titled "The Bookburning" (Die Bücherverbrennung)
German dramatist and poet (1898-1956)

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
Joseph Alexandrovitch BRODSKY
1991
Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)

"Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed."
Dwight David EISENHOWER
American general and 34th President of the United States (1890â€"1969)

"Every burned book enlightens the world."
Ralph Waldo EMERSON
American poet and essayist (1803-1882)

"Castro can destroy everything, except for books. He may censor, ban or even burn them, but the ideas contained in books can never be destroyed. As José Martí once said, paper trenches are stronger than those built in stone."
Carlos FRANQUI
Cuban writer, poet, journalist, art critic (1921- )

"What progress we are making. In the Middle Ages they would have burned me. Now they are content with burning my books."
Sigmund FREUD
1933
Austrian psychiatrist (1856-1939)

"... the military don't burn books any more: they sell them to the paper manufacturers. The paper companies shred them, pulp them and put them back on the market for consumption. It is not true that Marx, Freud or Piaget are unavailable to the public. In book form they are not. But they are in the form of serviettes."
Eduardo GALEANO
Uruguayan writer, story-teller, journalist and historian (1940-)

"Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings."
Heinrich HEINE
Almansor: A Tragedy, 1823
Used as inscription on memorial at Dachau concentration camp
German poet (1797-1856)[/spoiler:74unvht8]

This not only nails all the horror of what Palin's candidacy means. It also snapshots an America where the effects of under-education and an emphasis on personality over substance make Idiocracy an everyday reality:
http://www.alternet.org/election08/100551/ (http://www.alternet.org/election08/100551/)

McCain is trying to undermine everyone's intelligence, especially women, by choosing a female VP.

Here's a video listing about everything Sarah Palin's done as Mayor and Governor of Alaska.
"Sarah PALIN For CENSORSHIP"
[youtube:adpvshi2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUZgYqGtEy8[/youtube:adpvshi2]

This is a video where a CONSERVATIVE columnist wants Palin to drop out!
"Sarah Palin is as Dumb as a Bag of Hair"
[youtube:adpvshi2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru996Q_7ejw[/youtube:adpvshi2]

That first video asks the question, is this the type of executive you want elected to office (or something like that) and the answer from ME is NO, not even.  BUT... that is exactly the type that the conservatives want.  That is the epitomy of the strong father model and that's the model they are drawn to.  (source:  "Don't Think of an Elephant," George Lackoff)

I have a question about that video (and others from YouTube)... when it was talking about how she banned books, a little box popped up at the bottom stating "There is no list of books, for more info, see video."  Did the poster of the video put that on there?  If so, it makes no sense to use that as a selling point in the video if that popup insinuates that it may not be true.  My research has indicated that no such list exists but the story gets convoluted from there.  Her camp states that a patron had complained about a book the year before and that Ms. Palin (whom I'm firmly against, btw) was merely asking about policy regarding book removal complaints (which seems all to innocent, considering all of her other reported behaviors).  A TIme Magazine article, however, states:

Quote[Former Wasilla mayor] Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

She fired the librarian because she felt the librarian was not giving Palin her "full support."  THAT, at least, fits with a banned book story as opposed to the inquiry story.

Just one of the many reasons I do not, in any way, shape, or form, support this woman for ANY office... even dog catcher.

Quote from: "rlrose328"That first video asks the question, is this the type of executive you want elected to office (or something like that) and the answer from ME is NO, not even.  BUT... that is exactly the type that the conservatives want.  That is the epitomy of the strong father model and that's the model they are drawn to.  (source:  "Don't Think of an Elephant," George Lackoff)

I have a question about that video (and others from YouTube)... when it was talking about how she banned books, a little box popped up at the bottom stating "There is no list of books, for more info, see video."  Did the poster of the video put that on there?  If so, it makes no sense to use that as a selling point in the video if that popup insinuates that it may not be true.  My research has indicated that no such list exists but the story gets convoluted from there.  Her camp states that a patron had complained about a book the year before and that Ms. Palin (whom I'm firmly against, btw) was merely asking about policy regarding book removal complaints (which seems all to innocent, considering all of her other reported behaviors).  A TIme Magazine article, however, states:

Quote[Former Wasilla mayor] Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

She fired the librarian because she felt the librarian was not giving Palin her "full support."  THAT, at least, fits with a banned book story as opposed to the inquiry story.

Just one of the many reasons I do not, in any way, shape, or form, support this woman for ANY office... even dog catcher.

The reason why it says that there's no list is that there were people who posted a list of books, which turned out to be fabricated. The guy who created that video wanted to clarify that any list posted were just rumors on the internet by an unreliable source.

Quote from: "Brian"The reason why it says that there's no list is that there were people who posted a list of books, which turned out to be fabricated. The guy who created that video wanted to clarify that any list posted were just rumors on the internet by an unreliable source.

Thanks, Brian... I'm not familiar enough with posting videos on YouTube to know if it was or wasn't put there by some unknown source, like advertising.  I did find that list... there's an entry in Snopes about the list of books.

Wish the list WERE true... it would further justify how I feel about her potential candidacy.

To be quite honest, before all the hullaballoo concerning the vice presidential running mates, I was very much neutral in my decision between Obama and McCain.  Neither, I felt, was EXACTLY what the United States needs right now.  McCain truly reminds me of Bush, and I just plain didn't like Obama.  I initially was just going to go in and choose the lesser of the two evils as my pick for president.

However, McCain screwed himself, 'cause there's no way in hell he's going to get my vote as long as Palin's name is attached to his.  Every new fact I learn about this woman, I find myself loathing her more and more.  From her complete ignorance about EVERYTHING, to her pathetic excuse for a political resume, I find myself having this extreme aversion to her.

Obama is not and has never been my perfect candidate, but he will be getting my vote in this election.  No way am I going to chance the risk of waking up and seeing "And now, the President of the United States, Sarah Palin" on the news bulletin.

No.  No.  No.