Happy Atheist Forum

I hope this is in the right place!! I'm new to the forum, mainly as I could really do with some advice from people who think alike! I'm 32 years old and live with my husband and two children - I guess you would call us free thinkers. My parents live about 5 minutes away from us - we see them every so often although I am starting to feel less and less like getting together with them, and have probably felt this way for a few years now. This is mainly to do with them constantly preaching their vegan and christian (born again christians as of a 3 years ago) way of life to us, but not only that, they are forever trying to force near enough anything down our throats if they think it's the right thing to do. I guess what has really tipped my patience and anger over the edge lately is my parents not only preaching their christian and vegan-ism to us all, but actually taking my two children (aged 11 and 6) into a farm shop at the weekend and showing them the meat/hanging 'dead burning flesh' (their words) and then showing them the live animals outside and asking them which they would prefer seeing!!! We don't eat a great deal of meat - and always buy free range now, with a great deal of thought and research going into where we buy it from. My children don't eat meat - yet - but I was hoping, given time they may choose to eat the same as us sometimes (their choice). I know after this there is no way my youngest will even try it now, I feel that he was even turning his nose up at my Sunday Roast at the weekend!
They have also regularly taken them into church/bought them 'religious gifts' and poked their religion down their throats. I have told my parents before now that if they continue to preach I'm really going to have to reconsider whether I want to to see them anymore - which I feel terrible about! I am just at the end of my tether now, and seem to spend half of my life trying to work out how to deal with them, and what to say to them, and it's getting pretty depressing to say the least! Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

Welcome!  I feel for you, I really do!

I'd take the tough-love approach myself.  They MUST abide by your wishes if they want to continue to see your children.  They either stop the preaching on all fronts (vegan AND religion) or they are not welcome in your house or to see the kids.  Period.  Especially if you have asked them before to stop and they haven't.  There can be no wavering on this one.  It doesn't matter what they think is best.

If the children were in danger, then their advice would be welcome.  Other than that, they must butt out.

Again, welcome!  Hope things work out for you!

OMG I LOVE dead burned flesh. Dead fried pig flesh in the morning with boiled chicken embryos and maybe a glass of decimated orange guts is just tops. For lunch today, I have the chest meat ripped from a dead, rotting turkey on rye bread with mayo (which is also made of chicken embryos) and mustard. I can't think of any visceral, disturbing way to describe mustard.

Don't feel guilty about preventing you, your husband or your children from being mistreated. If your parents want to behave reasonably, then they can come over again. Until then it sounds like time for a break.

I'd have to agree with the tough love approach.

Its one thing for your vegan religious parents to explain to your kids what it is they do and why they do it but its a bit over the top to try to indoctrinate them into their way of life by fear.  The least they could do is wait until they are a bit older, more able to understand things and come to their own conclusions.

You could tell them all about the animal sacrifices their God demanded, as according to the Bible. (Mention a few of the human ones, too!)

Welcome, pinkpanther.  You've come to the right place.

I had a similar situation with my father years ago.  I wasn't raised by my father, and did not, in fact, start to have a relationship with him until my late teens.  Because of this (something for which I am eternally grateful to my mother) I was not exposed to his Southern Baptist and good old boy mentality until I was nearly an adult and had already formulated my own independent atheistic views on life.  My introduction to the Bible Belt is a highly amusing story which I will relate at some other time.

When my son was about six or seven, my father came to visit with me for a few days.  During that visit he was rather obnoxious, demanding to know why I hadn't taken my son to church and taught him the Bible.  He also told my son he was going to teach him how to catch (I still cringe to this day remembering this scene) black people, but he used the N word.  That was the final straw.  My son's best friend was black and lived next door, I had several black friends, and I was absolutely horrified and furious at the use of that ugly word.  

I took my father outside and told him in no uncertain terms that I had my own views of what was important in life, and that those were the views I intended to teach my son.  He was not to preach, try to take my son to church, or otherwise impose his views on my family, and he was NEVER to use that word in my presence again.  He tried to argue that I was forcing my son to grow up without God's guidance, to which I replied yes, I was, and frankly it was none of his business how I raised my son.  At that point he said that he was my father and he knew what was best, and a large argument ensued.  I told him to leave my home, and that he wasn't welcome there if he couldn't abide by my rules.

That permanently strained our relationship.  And although I saw him often over the years until his death about six years ago, he never again came to visit me.  He did feel free to preach at me in his home, and as much as I detested it, he had every right to do what he wanted in his home, just as I did in mine.  I have never regretted laying down my rules, even though it made our relationship harder.  I just viewed it as saving my son's mind from blindness and fear.  My son, by the way, is a happy atheist in his own right.

I hope that helps you.  Parents or not, they do not have a right to force their beliefs down your children's throats.  Be strong and lay down the law!

You don't know how flipping wonderful it is to hear your views! Even though I know deep down that it has nothing to do with them, it's still hard to tell them to keep their noses out - after all, they are my parents - they brought me up, gave me a fairly nice up bringing and all that, and I don't want to upset them if I can avoid it. Having said that, if they weren't my parents I would have parted company a long time ago. Thank goodness they were not Christian when I was little!

I actually think there is quite a high chance of them not talking to me for a while as I have sent them a stern email - telling them exactly how I feel. I have also told them how I feel about Christianty, saying "I can be a good person without having to conform to rules that in my opinion are aimed at the easily led, or people who are not happy with themselves." I know they have received the mail because they have gone very quiet!!   I know this is going to completely change our relationship - in fact, we went through similar a couple of years ago, and things haven't been the same since then so I'm worried this is going to completely end it. If so, I think it would be very sad for them to choose something that isn't real over something that is very real - their family.

One thing I'm a bit confused about, was 'Jesus' a vegetarian? The answer seems to vary depending on where I look!

Bleh, I had a really cool reply and I hit a key and it poofed!

Anyway, good for you for letting your parents know how you feel.  Part of parenting is learning how to let go.  It's not easy.  But they love you, and you obviously love them.  This will change your relationship, but it doesn't have to end it.  Limits can be very good things, in relationships and other areas of life.  And who knows, maybe you can bring them back from the brink of darkness!  

Quote from: "pinkpanther"You don't know how flipping wonderful it is to hear your views!

You're safe and among friends, now. Here's a blanket and hot tea!

Quote from: "pinkpanther"One thing I'm a bit confused about, was 'Jesus' a vegetarian? The answer seems to vary depending on where I look!

Something about Xtianity that varies? You're kidding!


You might find your answer in The Book of Luke:

QuoteThen came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it." (Luke 22:7-8)

I'll bet "J" ate it with garlic, butter, and basil.

Quote from: "Willravel"OMG I LOVE dead burned flesh. Dead fried pig flesh in the morning with boiled chicken embryos and maybe a glass of decimated orange guts is just tops. For lunch today, I have the chest meat ripped from a dead, rotting turkey on rye bread with mayo (which is also made of chicken embryos) and mustard. I can't think of any visceral, disturbing way to describe mustard.

you put mustard on turkey! now that is just wrong.

Quote from: "jcm"you put mustard on turkey! now that is just wrong.

I always put mayo and cranberry sauce on my turkey sandwiches.  Whole cranberry is da bestest!  

Quote from: "pinkpanther"One thing I'm a bit confused about, was 'Jesus' a vegetarian? The answer seems to vary depending on where I look!

Are your parents seventh day adventists?  I'm asking because it is the only branch of chrsitianity I have heard of which encourages its followers to follow a vegan, or at least vegetarian, lifestyle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-da ... h_and_diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Health_and_diet)

QuoteSince the 1860s when the church began, wholeness and health have been an emphasis of the Adventist church.[13] Adventists are known for presenting a "health message" that recommends vegetarianism and expects adherence to the kosher laws in Leviticus 11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=leviticus%2011-11&version=31) . Obedience to these laws means abstinence from pork, shellfish, and other foods proscribed as "unclean". The church discourages its members from the use of alcohol, tobacco or illegal drugs (compare Christianity and alcohol). In addition, some Adventists avoid coffee and other beverages containing caffeine.

Welcome to the forum. You've gotten some great answers already. I was also going to ask if your parents were now Seventh Day Adventists, for the same reason laetusatheos mentioned. Almost all the christian vegans I knew were part of that little [strike:1djkyr1n]cult[/strike:1djkyr1n], I mean, sect!  

You need to put your foot down on this one. They are not your childrens' parents...you are. You have the ultimate say in how to rear the kids.

I think some of the "Jesus was a vegan/vegetarian" might come from not being allowed to eat meat that was killed as a sacrifice (its somewhere in the Bible, I'm going to be too lazy to find a citation.)  My best guess is that in an era where there was a lot of intermingling with other cultures who believed in different God/s/ess/esses who would celebrate with animal sacrifices (which were then probably sold by the priests at the local markets if not eaten by the worshippers/priests.)

Quote from: "pinkpanther"You don't know how flipping wonderful it is to hear your views!

It IS nice to hear that here, isn't it?  There's wisdom on this forum that I've yet to find anywhere else... on a social forum, anyway.

Quote from: "pinkpanther"I actually think there is quite a high chance of them not talking to me for a while as I have sent them a stern email - telling them exactly how I feel. I have also told them how I feel about Christianty, saying "I can be a good person without having to conform to rules that in my opinion are aimed at the easily led, or people who are not happy with themselves." I know they have received the mail because they have gone very quiet!!   I know this is going to completely change our relationship - in fact, we went through similar a couple of years ago, and things haven't been the same since then so I'm worried this is going to completely end it. If so, I think it would be very sad for them to choose something that isn't real over something that is very real - their family.

I'm proud of you!  Good for you... speaking out for yourself AND being a good advocate for your children is the best thing you can possibly do in this life.  And yes, it will change your relationship with your parents... into what will probably be a more healthy relationship, in which you are treated like an adult, not a child to whom they can force their views.  Your children will see how strong you are and that's only going to make your relationship with THEM stronger, too.

Quote from: "pinkpanther"One thing I'm a bit confused about, was 'Jesus' a vegetarian? The answer seems to vary depending on where I look!

Oh good grief.  I sincerely doubt it.  It's a stretch made by religious folks to justify a vegan lifestyle.

Quote from: "Faithless"

Quote from: "jcm"you put mustard on turkey! now that is just wrong.

I always put mayo and cranberry sauce on my turkey sandwiches.  Whole cranberry is da bestest!   :unsure:

Quote from: "McQ"Welcome to the forum. You've gotten some great answers already. I was also going to ask if your parents were now Seventh Day Adventists, for the same reason laetusatheos mentioned. Almost all the christian vegans I knew were part of that little [strike:2ant6uqs]cult[/strike:2ant6uqs], I mean, sect!  :crazy:

Quote from: "jcm"you put mustard on turkey! now that is just wrong.

Quote from: "rlrose328"Same here... and if I don't have cranberry, it's just mayo.  Mustard IS just plain wrong!  

Yellow mustard on turkey is wrong. Brown mustard is more than acceptable.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2Fblue%2Ftongue2.gif&hash=e148d88a0ad0c23d263733d43e583312b7107731)

Quote from: "pinkpanther"

Quote from: "McQ"Welcome to the forum. You've gotten some great answers already. I was also going to ask if your parents were now Seventh Day Adventists, for the same reason laetusatheos mentioned. Almost all the christian vegans I knew were part of that little [strike:1z5i96h1]cult[/strike:1z5i96h1], I mean, sect!  :crazy:

Aha! They are controllers! Most would say, "Control Freaks". That does make it tough, because long ago, you assumed the submissive position with them (most kids do with parents anyway...at least for a time). But it seems they don't want to lose their control of you and your life as well as other peoples' lives.

This is a tough situation. Assertiveness is difficult to do tactfully, especially with people who aren't used to getting push-back. Ever considered counseling? Just a thought, that a legit counselor might be able to help you find the right ways to communicate to your folks, or at least help you deal with them.

QuoteAha! They are controllers! Most would say, "Control Freaks". That does make it tough, because long ago, you assumed the submissive position with them (most kids do with parents anyway...at least for a time). But it seems they don't want to lose their control of you and your life as well as other peoples' lives.

That's interesting - I wonder if this is why I find it difficult, if not impossible, to ever make a decision! I have - and still do at times, suffer with pretty bad depression and anxiety.. I'm not totally blaming my parents for this of course, but I'm pretty sure they have a lot to do with it. Yes, you are right - being assertive is very difficult, usually by trying I end up arguing with them or becoming upset and down with myself.
I still haven't heard from them after sending them my email - kinda makes you think really that their religion/beliefs are more important than me and the kids!

QuoteWelcome, pinkpanther. You've come to the right place.

I had a similar situation with my father years ago. I wasn't raised by my father, and did not, in fact, start to have a relationship with him until my late teens. Because of this (something for which I am eternally grateful to my mother) I was not exposed to his Southern Baptist and good old boy mentality until I was nearly an adult and had already formulated my own independent atheistic views on life. My introduction to the Bible Belt is a highly amusing story which I will relate at some other time.

When my son was about six or seven, my father came to visit with me for a few days. During that visit he was rather obnoxious, demanding to know why I hadn't taken my son to church and taught him the Bible. He also told my son he was going to teach him how to catch (I still cringe to this day remembering this scene) black people, but he used the N word. That was the final straw. My son's best friend was black and lived next door, I had several black friends, and I was absolutely horrified and furious at the use of that ugly word.

I took my father outside and told him in no uncertain terms that I had my own views of what was important in life, and that those were the views I intended to teach my son. He was not to preach, try to take my son to church, or otherwise impose his views on my family, and he was NEVER to use that word in my presence again. He tried to argue that I was forcing my son to grow up without God's guidance, to which I replied yes, I was, and frankly it was none of his business how I raised my son. At that point he said that he was my father and he knew what was best, and a large argument ensued. I told him to leave my home, and that he wasn't welcome there if he couldn't abide by my rules.

That permanently strained our relationship. And although I saw him often over the years until his death about six years ago, he never again came to visit me. He did feel free to preach at me in his home, and as much as I detested it, he had every right to do what he wanted in his home, just as I did in mine. I have never regretted laying down my rules, even though it made our relationship harder. I just viewed it as saving my son's mind from blindness and fear. My son, by the way, is a happy atheist in his own right.

I hope that helps you. Parents or not, they do not have a right to force their beliefs down your children's throats. Be strong and lay down the law!

This story by Faithless is just a wonderful one. But to make this story happens, I think we need a really educated persons with an open-mind, and respect to each other, also high respect to privacy.  I am not having that kind of problem, yet. But maybe someday.

The problem is, people here in Indonesia is related very closely each other. So, in Faithless's case, what would happened will be:
All the family members including uncle, cousins, grandfather/mother, everybody, will amazed on  why I became atheist, and they will keep dooming me with the threat of eternal hell.

Well, that sound pessimistic maybe, but I hope I have strength when the day come.