Happy Atheist Forum

Hi everybody. With interest I read scientific articles on novel brain readout techniques (like doi:10.1038/nature06713), which I wanted you to read to tell me your opinion about it.

An artifical neural net (multilayer preceptron) could be used as visual encoder to reconstruct the images seen or imagined by an individual from its brain currents (electro-encephalography) or from its biomagnetic fields, alternatively.

Thereby, the images seen or imagined by an volunteer could be reconstructed to a good extent (1 to 5 images per second, black/white, but denoted as "almost youtube-quality").

Another part of the work was the recording of the brain activity of dying persons. More than one hundred volunteers of an elderly hospital were examined in advance and questionnaired for their religious beliefs also. When they were up to die, their brain activity was recorded and the concerning images were reconstructed, finding characteristic sequences, like that reported by near-death-experiencers. There was almost always a tunnel experience, followed by some kind of judgement tribunal chaired by an old man, some kind of life film and afterwards a sequence showing a paradiese garden, or alternatively hellfire, or a "black hole" before brain flatline. Interestingly, hellfire and black hole sequences seemed to be significantly increased for atheist volunteers, whereas the paradiese garden sequences were found more frequently for persons with strong religious believes.

This technique could also be used as lie detector, or at the airport, as detector against terrorism, the inventors of this technique believe.

Would you mind dropping some links to the articles that you've read?

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"Would you mind dropping some links to the articles that you've read?

I'd like to see the articles too...frankly, what the OP is claiming to have read does not see to fit into what we are currently capable of doing.  If we could 'read minds' the USA military would be all over it as a replacement for interrogation techniques.  Not to mention that if such findings were true and could be reproduced in separate studies, it would help put to bed a lot of claims about what happens when we die.

Seriously? Is this serious? Seriously?

So, somehow we can see the spiritual realm in 'you-tube' quality? Where's Kirk Cameron?? We need Kirk Cameron! He would narrate the hell out of this!

Some googling found that a "multilayer perceptron" is a neural network algorithm developed in 1957, but it is a large leap of faith to believe that this has been developed into something that can read images out of the mind.  I have never heard of anything close to what you claim that this unseen article claims.

It would be interesting to see what the mind of a dying person sees, but I imagine that it would probably be like a computer screen when the computer is crashing, a decay of garbled imagery eventually locking up and fading out.

Quote from: "crocofish"It would be interesting to see what the mind of a dying person sees, but I imagine that it would probably be like a computer screen when the computer is crashing, a decay of garbled imagery eventually locking up and fading out.

Kind of like Jacob's Ladder. Aside from some general cheesy effects issues (like Satan impaling that girl with his huge member) - it's actually a pretty awesome movie. The whole movie is supposed to be [spoiler:20evnzcy]the scattered thoughts of a dying man.[/spoiler:20evnzcy] Pretty awesome.

This guy is full of crap.

I think this is the article the OP refers to....doesn't say anything about you tube quality images or dead people and white lights:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 06713.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v452/n7185/abs/nature06713.html)

Quote from: "myleviathan"Kind of like Jacob's Ladder.

Great movie.  I watched it a couple times back when it first hit cable TV a long time ago.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"I think this is the article the OP refers to....doesn't say anything about you tube quality images or dead people and white lights:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 06713.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v452/n7185/abs/nature06713.html)

It that was what the OP was referencing, then the OP took some major liberties in his/her claims.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"I think this is the article the OP refers to....doesn't say anything about you tube quality images or dead people and white lights:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 06713.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v452/n7185/abs/nature06713.html)

It that was what the OP was referencing, then the OP took some major liberties in his/her claims.

OP is apparently a christian. They tend to do that.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"I think this is the article the OP refers to....doesn't say anything about you tube quality images or dead people and white lights:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 06713.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v452/n7185/abs/nature06713.html)

It that was what the OP was referencing, then the OP took some major liberties in his/her claims.

I found it by googling the following:

Quote from: "Daniela.exe"(like doi:10.1038/nature06713)

So, ya, the OP took many liberties unless there is some other source the OP used that made extraordinary claims.  The nature article does indicate some interesting things are on the horizon in relation to understanding the mind; however I'm not as optimistic as the end of the abstract.  I doubt that  "it may soon be possible to reconstruct a picture of a person's visual experience from measurements of brain activity alone."  At least not in a way that is the same as making a movie of your dreams...that would be pretty cool though.

The paper is about the possibility of being able to know what someone was looking at by "decoding" their fMRI information.  The only thing I can think of is that the OP was talking about doing this with people who are dying and being able to "see" what they "see" but I'm only guessing.

Here's the full paper if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.filefactory.com/file/fc66d3/n/Identifying_natural_images_from_human_brain_activity_pdf

Thanks Squid.

Quote from: "myleviathan"Seriously? Is this serious? Seriously?

So, somehow we can see the spiritual realm in 'you-tube' quality? Where's Kirk Cameron?? We need Kirk Cameron! He would narrate the hell out of this!

   He needs the work.