In 5 weeks time the polls will open to elect members of the Westminster parliament.
As usual it's just a 2 horse race between the blues (Con) and the reds (Lab).
Labour's lead has been cut from 20 plus points down to 12.
Tory PM Rishi (Richi) Sunak has assets valued at £650 million.
Devout Hindu who owns expensive properties.
Labour leader (Sir) Keir Starmer is worth £7-8 million.
Not bad when you consider his first job was picking up stones from a farmer's field.
He has been called the red knight.
His deputy is Angela Rayner from an even more humble background has been called the red queen.
Also running are the party of the centre (Lib-Dems) who are squeezed out by the other two in the battle for the centre ground.
Green Party are aiming to pick up a few seats.
Reform Party might do well, but could end up with no seats.
Nationalist parties in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are likely to lose seats.
As someone once said, there is nothing quite like a British election.
(Unless in the USA.)
If you want see an up to date and accurate assessment of the poles the BBC has an excellent site. There has been no significant change in Labour's lead at 20 points.
UK Political polls (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68079726)
That's probably a good tracker, but the BBC are biased in favour of Labour.
The polls have been completely wrong before.
In the final week it could be all down to which party leader makes the fewest mistakes.
Look out for the Tories launching a big attack on Starmer.
"That's probably a good tracker, but the BBC are biased in favour of Labour."
Bollocks. Have you not watched Laura 'Tory Shill' Kuenssberg on a Sunday? A BBC spokesperson once pointed out 'We know we're doing right when both sides keep calling us biased.'
"The polls have been completely wrong before."
Quite so. But not all of them at once. That's also why it's worth paying attention to Prof John Curtis. He's called every election correctly in the last 40 years. And he's saying it'll be the biggest Tory slaughter there has ever been. Even the Tories know it, over 80 are not bothering to stand including the arch cunt Gove.
"In the final week it could be all down to which party leader makes the fewest mistakes."
Possible but if that's what Sunak is banking on he's already a shed load in front of Starma.
"Look out for the Tories launching a big attack on Starmer."
Typical Tory tactics, personal political attacks rather than actually presenting reasonable policies. I wouldn't buy a car off of Sunak that's for sure.
Prof John Curtice on TV this morning pointed out that the poll difference between Labour and Conservative is currently averaged at 21 points. However there is considerable variation by poll from 12 to 27 points at the extremes.
Young people are more likely to vote Labour because they have had little or no experience of what a Labour government actually looks like.
Once in power the looney left will re-surface.
Starmergeddon will mean higher inflation and job losses.
Starmer's policy on climate change is something called British Energy, when there can be no such thing.
His mantra of change will become "let's wait and see".
This man is so dreary you will fall asleep listening to him.
His ideological joy ride will collapse in the face of world events.
It's not that I particularly like the Tories but there is a reason why they have been the dominant political party for a century now.
They are the lesser of the two evils.
PS. I wouldn't buy a car off Starmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13050159/keir-starmer-car-dent-collision-deliveroo-rider/
You're citing an article in the Sun! I'd rather believe the Bible :rofl:
He was performing a U-turn when in collision with a cyclist.
A rehearsal if he gets into power.
Read here on the Daily Hate.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8890449/Photos-scratches-dent-Labour-leader-Starmers-car-crash-Deliveroo-cyclist.html
Fuking cyclists. Always in the way. :)
The latest You Gov poll, 60,000 participants, predicts Labour would win with a 194 seat majority. In 2019 the Conservatives won with an 80 seat majority which was considered a landslide win. If this comes off the Conservatives will be virtually dead as a political force in the UK.
Yes, but have you heard the latest bombshell?
Farage is up and running.
I revise my estimate for no seats for the Reform Party to a possible 50 and the best news Labour have had.
Could be a hung Parliament with a Lab-Lib pact.
Worst of all worlds.
Farage has stood 8 times before and failed on every attempt. There is no reason to expect he will do any better this time around.
Reform are not expected to get a single seat. However in sucking away Tory votes they are guaranteeing Labour victories where there might not have been one.
The parliament will not be hung. The Lib Dems will be lucky to get 50 seats at most.
What is the practical difference, if any, between a Labour-heavy Parliament and a Concervative-heavy one?
Ideally the Labour government should be more socialist in nature.
Sure, I was just wondering if it was kind of like over here when it comes to the Parliament - the two largest parties here, while also on opposite sides of "Socialism," are remarkably close in the way they vote.
Farage has stood 7 times for MP before, not 8.
He is also now the king of the milkshakes.
Or is it a fake?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq5Kn2eoDJE
Depending on how you cost it, Labour's tax bombshell is £2000 per person.
The Tory press loved that after the TV debate last night.
I got so bored I switched channels to watch the women's football.
Ok it will be 8.
Glad to see an interlude today with the 80th anniversary of D-Day.
Just like to say, incredible people were around on 6th June 1944.
We owe so much to them.
Hear hear.
Hear! hear! indeed. A lot of Brits, Canadians, and Americans payed the ultimate price.
And Sunak leaves the commemoration services early to campaign. What an f'ing dick!
I was moved to dig out my old copy of D-Day by Stephen Ambrose.
In over 500 pages he describes the whole day from beginning to end.
Based on 1,400 oral histories from the men who were there.
It finishes with a quote from Eisenhower when he says that people will do anything for freedom.
On the other hand Sunak came, saw, left early.
A man who wants to re-introduce national service for 18 year olds, but prefers to go home for a TV interview.
Clearly, no sense of duty or history.
Like D-Day, this will be remembered.
Yes it will.
Last night there was a TV debate with the 7 biggest party contenders represented. Scotland has its own parliament and can make its own specific laws. The scottish government is dominated be the Scottish National Party (SNP). It's an odd setup.
What I hadn't really realised until last night was just how arrogant, partisan and selfish the SNP are. Their representative was simply an arsehole.
While the other parties attack each other, the SNP will say anything to undermine the English and the Westminster Parliament.
Nigel Farage acted like a black hole sucking in the audience's attention.
He reminds me of either a toad, frog, newt or duck.
Maybe a meerkat or bald eagle.
https://theweek.com/uk-news/52852/viral-world-what-caught-fire-internet-week
Cruel. On the animals.
It was a farce from beginning to end :(
It was 7 ducks in a row.
Perhaps it needed a bit of egg throwing like before previous elections.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g52QtvyDg4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we6z0LLGQt0
Man helps Farage cement his reputation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsVh7KTrheI
Pity he missed. Farage is a complete and utter arsehole. You know he has set up Reform as a Ltd company not a mutual and he's the MD. Thus all the proceeds go through him. It is also rumoured that to avoid having to disclose donations to the electoral commision that he is getting lots of small donations rather a few bigs ones he would have to declare.
Just watched Kia Starmer for an hour and he's talking a good talk. Richy Sunak was almost in tears on Sky News last night as the interviewer took him apart.
Quote from: Tank on June 11, 2024, 04:18:30 PMFarage is a complete and utter arsehole.
That's insulting to arseholes. Try life without one.
Q: What's the difference between a toad and Nigel Farage?
A: One is a bottom feeding scum sucker, the other is an amphibian.
https://www.pawsr.com/blog/British-Beastie-of-the-Month-The-Slimy-Toad
I apologise to arseholes. I would in fact miss mine very much.
Polling expert Sir John Curtice on Reform and Lib Dem gains (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd11jpqgzp4o)
Both the Conservatives (right wing) and Labour (nominally left wing) are down about the same in the polls so the gap remains nominally the same with the Conservatives 20 points behind Labour. Reform (so right wing it fell off the plane) are now in one major poll one point ahead of the Conservatives.
To put this into a bit of context Reform has no sitting Members of Parliament and may only get a handful in the election due to the 'first past the post' electoral system in the UK. But this would be analogous to Trump starting a party called the American Fascists and getting a handful of seats in the House of Representatives.
I first became politically aware in the mid 70's and this is the most diverse election campaign I have seen. There is very little doubt Labour will win with a majority that will see them through the next parliamentary session till 2029. The only question whether there will be a credible opposition or just a bunch of punch drunk minor groupings.
No mainstream party has a big idea this time.
Reform is a one policy party. Send all immigrants home.
Tory policy to send some to Rwanda is a total failure.
Now I have a great idea.
Put all the Tories on the plane.
There will be under 200 left and fares are quite reasonable.
https://www.jetcost.co.uk/flights/rwanda/RW?aw_campaign_id=765122114&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2pHS7LndhgMVZ4hQBh3cAgDqEAAYAyAAEgJzRvD_BwE
:rofl:
The Conservatives have pretty much given up and have moved to damage limitation. They are now reduced to FUD factors (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) to try and reduce the impending whitewash. If this election goes anywhere close to what the polls are saying it's going to be a rout.
Holding a summer election when the weather is fine in the UK (sometimes it is) the Tories hoped to benefit from the feel-good factor.
But they forgot that Farage would have been away supporting Trump later in the year.
There has been a succession of poor Tory PM's.
The electorate voted for Brexit. Cameron and May tried to overturn it.
Johnson got it done but was deposed due to his actions in the pandemic.
Truss. Unelected by the voters. You know the rest.
Sunak. Also unelected by the voters.
Yep. They have quite literally made themselves unelectable. All Starmer has to do is kick the ball into an open goal.
By all accounts the Conservatives have gone into retreat. They lost so many local councilors in the recent local elections that they have lost loads of resource. Apparently they are going to focus all their resources on those constituencies where they might win if very lucky. They aren't putting any effort where they are going to be sure of winning or losing. This might not sound unreasonable until you realise that this has never been done so cynically and systematically by one of the major parties since 1945. The Conservative are in a battle for their future as a political force for the next 20 'ish years.
We are living in interesting times.
Looking grim for the Tories. One poll predicts only 50 seats and Labour 500.
Lib-Dems could even be 2nd biggest party in only 2 weeks now.
Just when they thought it couldn't get any worse:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cd119p9een9t
Tory press now reduced to blaming Labour for Just Stop Oil spraying powder on Stonehenge.
They really are getting desperate.
Happily now removed just in time for the summer solstice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgg0683e7po
It really is astonishing and horrific to witness.
Does the British common man tend to veer toward right wing conservatism as in several of the European countries?
Quote from: Icarus on June 22, 2024, 03:31:56 AMDoes the British common man tend to veer toward right wing conservatism as in several of the European countries?
Some do. That's why Brexit happened.
Quote from: Icarus on June 22, 2024, 03:31:56 AMDoes the British common man tend to veer toward right wing conservatism as in several of the European countries?
Difficult to say.
Look at the horizontal diagram half way down.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49763-general-election-2024-which-voters-are-the-conservatives-and-labour-seen-as-being-close-to
Tory blue on left, Labour red on right.
An amusing story from post war Britain is that the London dockers who were hard working-class men were voting Tory. They were also pro monarchy and Church of England.
A fictional character was based on this. Alf Garnett in the sitcom Till Death Us Do Part was one such docker.
Tory down to his boots.
Latest: Farage reveals himself pro Putin.
'Silly Moo' :D
(UK in joke)
Bald headed 'geezer' here is the Tory.
Long haired 'git' is Labour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0-leRNxhmg
Now you should tell the difference.
Looks like a Brit version of the American sit-com: All In The Family. The bald gentleman is the double of Archie Bunker. :)
All in the Family was based on Till Death us Do Part. :)
Rishi Sunak's hedge fund history contributed to the taxpayer paying out £45,000,000,000 to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland in the financial crisis.
Should he pay what he profited back?
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/exclusive-labour-demands-answers-rishi-103940153.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALRrulXbbAwpGHV1838WGAnzAEyOD1O5SrT8bhmjH_k2N6H9bYj0Aq515adKchhpVnL0Hpu7sskiwFOr9VuhtWuQqefXtX1dUcsubzZXOf7XjIJTxMiEOtxysmaOdzLaSdjTs7p1r0u9thCuN-VbuaP75moV-uKQkewaEqmVGyIq
Cold side of Keir Starmer:
Should he pay what he profited back?
https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-keir-starmer-brush-french-police-over-illegal-ice-creams/
Approaching the finishing post and all the runners and riders are falling.
Tory scandals get worse by the day.
Labour tripping up as well.
The one policy parties are exhausted.
There was a time when politicians were at least expected to have high standards, now anything goes.
The public are merely pawns in their game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLj3j_N-l38.
It's getting to be a complete bun fight. I and my wife do a postal vote so we have already done the deed. If this parliament runs full term we'll both be 69 when we vote again!
Think I'll become a floating voter.
Will I need to go to sea?
There are quite a few small boats in the channel :)
Hope that Reform UK don't use me as target practice.
"Reform activist was recorded saying migrants trying to cross the Channel in "small boats" should be used as "target practice".
Quite like Sunak when he gets angry.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-snaps-warns-journalist-33102378
Quote from: zorkan on June 28, 2024, 11:51:17 AMQuite like Sunak when he gets angry.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-snaps-warns-journalist-33102378
Yes. For the first time he actually looked honest in his delivery.
Getting personal with regard to Sunak's grandparents.
https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-28/farage-reform-campaigners-using-racist-slurs-are-the-odd-exception
you people have a comedic government. but at least it doesnt yet equal america's choice between a dotard and a devil.
Confess to not having heard the word dotard. Had to look it up.
So now it's coming up to make your mind up time this side of the pond.
What we have we so far?
In the blue corner:
Rishi Sunak. A man who thought the D-Day commemorations stood for Disrespect Day.
Intelligent man without star appeal.
If elected will come under big pressure from the Tory right.
In the red corner:
Keir Starmer. A man who probably gets lost on the London underground.
Intelligent man but again without star appeal.
If elected will yield to the Labour left.
The Lib-Dems, formerly known as the Liberals led by Ed Davey.
They are a "Let's wait and see" party with no clear ideas.
They are always both for and against any policy.
Even they don't know what they stand for.
Yellow corner:
The SNP. Can only vote for them in Scotland.
They change their leader every few months.
An independent Scotland will re-join the EU, and everything will come up roses.
Other nationalist parties in Scotland, Wales and NI are available.
Green corner. The Greens!
They have either one leader, several leaders, or no leader.
Anti-car, pro-Palestine. The party of immigration and sky high taxes.
Reform UK:
Far right party led by Nigel Farage who both loves and hates Europe.
Disrespectful to all of the above.
See link below.
It seems that I might have to vote for the lesser of the evils.
Tory. May god rest my soul.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c727xz2kkgjo
QuoteIn the red corner:
Keir Starmer. A man who probably gets lost on the London underground.
Intelligent man but again without star appeal.
If elected will yield to the Labour left.
If, and it's a big if, Labour get a big enough majority Starmer could be in a position to sack 100 lefty MPs and still have a huge working majority. It'll be interesting times for sure.
Does Starmer sack 100 elected MP's and replace them with 100 unelected ones?
Quote from: Tank on June 23, 2024, 11:59:10 AMAll in the Family was based on Till Death us Do Part. :)
we copied steptoe and son as well
Quote from: zorkan on June 29, 2024, 04:08:27 PMDoes Starmer sack 100 elected MP's and replace them with 100 unelected ones?
No. He just takes the whip away from them. He'd only have to do it for a few. The rest would get the message.
Quote from: billy rubin on June 29, 2024, 04:28:26 PMQuote from: Tank on June 23, 2024, 11:59:10 AMAll in the Family was based on Till Death us Do Part. :)
we copied steptoe and son as well
Well I didn't know that!
how can you beat a classic?
but we didnt do them all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_television_series_based_on_British_television_series
Red Dwarf USA.
How on Earth?
A day before the polling stations open and it's looking like Starmergeddon and the beginning of the end for Britain.
Tories have already conceded.
You can't get the politicians these days.
From the attempted avoidance of the result of the Brexit referendum to Partygate to Trussonomics to the D-Day disrepect to Betgate and now the election of a PM so grey, dull, boring and uninspiring, will the last person to leave Britian please remember to turn off the lights.
No. I'm looking forward to the Tory slaughter, they totally deserve it. If we are really really luck it will be Ed Davey standing opposite Starmer at PMQs!
Quote from: Tank on July 03, 2024, 06:01:37 PMNo. I'm looking forward to the Tory slaughter, they totally deserve it.
:smilenod: Needs to happen, from what I understand. They sort-of did what Labour did over here and forsook their base. That should be punishable by disastrous election results. Question is; will they learn?
At least over here, the two largest parties seem pretty immune to reaching the conclusion that maybe what they are doing and how a. doesn't work and b. was a bad idea to begin with.
Independence day in US.
Disaster day in UK.
3am UK. The landslide to Labour appears to be underway.
4:10 UK. The polls were broadly correct. Labour gains, Conservative losses. Reform far right have seats (3 atm) for the first time. Interesting times.
A very British revolution. A peaceful landslide.
Labour have a majority, so they have won. It's now a question of by how much.
Did Farage finally get that seat he's been wanting?
Yes. Him and 3 other Reform candidates became MPs. He was an MEP for 20 years so he shit disturbed there.
Well just got up. There are 4 seats still counting.
Labour have an overall majority of 85 seats. Very similar to the Tory majority last time. So they have won a spectacular victory.
However Labour have 411 (+211) MPs while the Tories have 120 (-250).
So Labour have 291 more MPs than the Conservatives. That is astonishing.
The big winners percentage wise of seats are Liberal Democrats, a Centrist party who I voted for in the past. . They had 8 MPs before the election and I could not have named their leader, Ed Davey. They now have 71 seats! He fought a blindingly good campaign and took many disaffected Conservative votes.
The Conservatives will now rip themselves apart in recriminations and that will unfortunately mean there will be no effecting balance to the potential excesses of the Labour party. Interesting times ahead.
Details here for those interested. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/crggn4j2lm0t)
Whatever your political alignment this is a spectacular example of a peaceful transfer of power. No deaths or riots, hardly even any shouting. Lots of lies, but in the end of the day they didn't matter. Most Brits can smell a rat.
The Green party have 4 seats, 3 up. So they have a bigger voice but no power.
Scotland is interesting (I'm told). The Scottish National Party (SNP) who only stand in Scotland went from 47 seats and a majority in the Scottish parliament to 9! Labour are now in the majority. The SNP ran on their usual full independence for Scotland tickets, a one hit wonder from a new lacklustre leader. He was soundly rejected by the Scot who were largely fed up with the corruption in the SNP and having no voice (except for impotent bleating) in Westminster.
The political relationship of Scotland to the UK is something like a State vs Federal juxtaposition where Scotland is the State. But it's also like saying on FaceBook that the their relationship is 'complex'.
There is now no Conservative MPs in Wales at all! The local Welsh party, Plaid Cymru, now have 4 seats up 2.
So Labour now hold an overall majority comprising majorities in England, Scotland and Wales. They have no place to hide, or blame, but themselves if they don't make things better.
Northern Ireland (NI) has also had a significant change. Sinn Fein (SF), once known as the political wing of the terrorist IRA, are now the largest political group in NI with 7 seats. They do not take up their seats at the Westminster Parliament. This is a first. Their leader has definitely talked-the-talk of reconciliation in NI. This will be interesting to watch. It should also be noted that the troubles were not started by the Catholic minority in NI. The army was sent into NI to protect the minority Catholics from the majority Protestants. SF have achieved more political change than the IRA ever did. And that is the way it should be. Let's hope the new generation of Protestants in NI don't go the way of the Ulster Defence Force (UDF) and just start killing. Again interesting times.
I'm very proud of the way things are being done here at the moment. Rishi Sunak, the now ex Prime Minister, was born in the UK. He has Asian/Indian/Hindu inheritance and is a practising Hindu. There are racists in the UK as there are everywhere. But as a country we can and have risen above that.
The next leader of the Conservatives is very likely to be a coloured women. One has an Asian background the other African, bloody brilliant!
Please note other other political opinions are available :)
Essentially the Tory voters either didn't bother to vote or if they did many went to the centrist Liberal Democrats or further to the right and the new Reform party.
The overall turnout was 60%. Down on the last general election. This is mostly reflected in the drop in Conservative voters realising they were going to lose big time as the campaign went on.
Kier gave a first rate acceptance speech. He can talk-the-talk now we see if he can walk-the-walk. Only time will tell.
Looking with more detail the expectation that the new Reform party would split the Conservative vote has proved to be true. However that's a simplistic view. If you add the Conservative and Reform votes together in many places Labour would still have one but with a much tighter margin.
Tory did win in my constituency, Solihull West, with a healthy majority.
But hey, already Labour isn't working.
Starmer promised change straight away. There are only fine words.
Sunak made disastrous mistakes. Biggest was holding July election when he could have waited until November.
"Starmer promised change straight away. There are only fine words."
You sound a little desperate. He hasn't even been in office 24 hours yet.
So Starmer promises stability.
I'll revise the alliteration.
Starmer promises stupor.
No, he wants economic growth. He has to have that so tax revenue increases. He may not get it but that remains to be seen. None of us has a crystal ball and after the shit show of the last 14 years my dead dog could have done a better job than the Conservatives did, simply because she would not have interfered.
:'(
Quote from: Tank on July 05, 2024, 09:48:46 AMYes. Him and 3 other Reform candidates became MPs. He was an MEP for 20 years so he shit disturbed there.
MEP is a EU minister, yes? I'm not certain what those are even for, if I'm honest. Smear a thin veneer of democracy on a committee government, I suppose.
In any case, I've read somewhere that he has been trying to become a minister of Parliament for a ridiculously long time, but never quite managed before. A seat under a Labour majority though it may be, well done Nigel, i suppose. :smilenod:
Quote from: Tank on July 05, 2024, 04:47:56 AMA very British revolution. A peaceful landslide.
america is devolving. we used to do this too, but we are currently cursed by populism
Quote from: Asmodean on July 05, 2024, 08:14:10 PMQuote from: Tank on July 05, 2024, 09:48:46 AMYes. Him and 3 other Reform candidates became MPs. He was an MEP for 20 years so he shit disturbed there.
MEP is a EU minister, yes? I'm not certain what those are even for, if I'm honest. Smear a thin veneer of democracy on a committee government, I suppose.
In any case, I've read somewhere that he has been trying to become a minister of Parliament for a ridiculously long time, but never quite managed before. A seat under a Labour majority though it may be, well done Nigel, i suppose. :smilenod:
MEP is a member of the European parliament. Yes this was 8th time lucky.
Quote from: billy rubin on July 05, 2024, 08:45:58 PMQuote from: Tank on July 05, 2024, 04:47:56 AMA very British revolution. A peaceful landslide.
america is devolving. we used to do this too, but we are currently cursed by populism
Large chunks of Europe are doing so too. France is heading far right to the point they would invite Hitler in if they could!
Quote from: Tank on July 05, 2024, 04:10:15 PMNo, he wants economic growth.
Don't they all?
QuoteHe has to have that so tax revenue increases.
Or he'll break his promise not to put up taxes?
QuoteNone of us has a crystal ball
Buy one Keir.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magic-Crystal-Ball-See-Future/dp/076246514X
I see the puns are being rolled out by the gutter press that represent Labour.
"Keir We Go!"
"Work Starts Keir!"
So what's in a name?
"Closely related to the Irish Ciarán, Keir is a Gaelic masculine name that means
"dark." Born from the Irish ciar, Keir cuts a brooding figure who finds comfort in the deeper recesses of their mind."
Come to think, he looks like Frankenstein.
https://coloneldespard.wordpress.com/2022/05/23/keir-starmer-an-anti-left-frankensteins-monster/
Do you want him to fail? Are you so hateful of our country that you want things to get worse after the shit storm of the last 14 years? You can't possibly think that those cunt Conservitive arseholes deserved anything but slaughtering at the polls.
QuoteDo you want him to fail?
He will fail.
QuoteAre you so hateful of our country that you want things to get worse after the shit storm of the last 14 years?
Inaccurate. There was a coalition for 5 years.
QuoteYou can't possibly think that those cunt Conservitive arseholes deserved anything but slaughtering at the polls.
They slaughtered Jeremy Corbyn and his bunch of looney lefties less than 5 years ago.
Strange how Corbyn, the anti-semite was sitting next to Starmer in parliament, a man with a Jewish wife.
Labour only exists to tax and spend from raising taxes directly or by stealth.
Labour will borrow more — on past evidence, much more — than markets currently expect.
Labour will leave a scorched earth for the next Tory administation to resolve.
Labour will give in to union pay demands sparking wage inflation.
The pound will lose its value on foreign markets meaning that prices of imported goods will rise.
From past experience we might find that rubbish will pile up in the streets and the dead will lie unburied.
We'll see :)
Damn...Zorkan has predicted forthcoming doom. That sounds quite a lot like the impending sociopolitical wreck that is the entirely possible case here in the U.S. Doom!
What the hell, we may be physically fried before the political doom takes place. Yesterday the temperature in Las Vegas Nevada was 118 F. Not far away, at Death Valley, the recorded temp was 127 F.
The heat could create a circle of cause and effect. Everyone would turn on their AC units and ice makers. That would cause an overload on the electric grid and lead to a colossal crash. Now no one will have a functional AC unit. There will be riots in the streets and we could be invaded my extra terrestials because we will be too heat stressed and dehydrated to fight back.... and so on.
Well, if enough people kill each other in the riots, electrical demand will decrease, and there will be global cooling. ;D
I won't pretend to understand the intricacies of the political system on the other side of the pond. I'd sure like to see less NAZI-like activity there and elsewhere, like here in the US.
Watching the pundits on the TV this morning it was incredibly refreshing not to have Conservative lies paraded. There were adult discussions accepting we are in deep shit and the only way out is going to take hard work and focus. It is such a relief to be free of those Conservative clowns.
It's started.
Planning rules are to be changed and NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard) will have to suck it up. For example there will be national house building targets. Local authorities have to decide where the new houses go but they have to decide. They can't simply say no.
The UK has a concept of 'Green Belts' around our major conurbations. Some is beautiful countryside and important natural resources. But other areas are Grey Belt. For example an old airfield may be in a Green Belt area and thus currently untouchable. The planning laws will be changed to allow these Grey Belt areas to be built on.
Another thing of note is that local interests will not be allowed to hold back the national interest. For example there has been a ban on onshore wind turbines because they spoilt the view of some rich and influential Tory supporters. This ban will go. In addition the infrastructure to connect these generators will be included in the planning rules. This is all good common sense. Some people won't like this but we are in this together and the minority will no longer hold us back.
This is change on a scale that I have not seen before. It is such a pleasure and relief to have some adults in charge for a change.
The impact of Labour's plans to build homes will affect just about everybody.
No longer will villagers be able to protect their green belt status.
Leafy places will disappear or be surrounded by new developments.
Just a couple of examples.
A peaceful place like Stonesfield in Oxfordhire, home to the site of William Buckland's discovery of dinosaur bones and a Roman villa nearby will be obliterated by housing estates. Locals there tell me that so far they have resisted the plans.
Even though I don't live in a wonderful place like this I respect its beauty. It will be lost to future generations.
My local football club will see the bulldozers arrive to demolish the club house, the stand and the floodlights, having resisted the planning of new homes there for a number of years now. Little doubt the lines of mature oak trees will be felled also.
Even if they build on brownfield sites it will mean more traffic, more pollution and a quality of life close to zero.
Homes will still be priced out of reach of buyers.
I'm trying to get a feel for how the good people of the Ashfield, a former coal mining area in Nottinghamshire overwhelmingly voted for the far right Reform UK.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-uk-election-results/constituencies/ashfield/
It's where during the Miner's Strike 40 years ago the workers did not support the NUM led by Arthur Scargill and decided to carry on working.
Locals there who had no connection or who weren't even born, are still called scabs.
What a load of rubbish. Be sure to tell us if that actually happens.
...I'm trying to get a feel for how Reform UK is anywhere near ""Far(tm) Right(tm)."" Are they not ye-classical all-blue sort of party?
If only countries could stabilise their populations, property/rent would be cheaper, we wouldn't have to be constantly building.
In many countries, this could be achieved by reducing net immigration, as their births per capita are... Unimpressive. They'd still build all the time and rent tends to trend upwards just like everything else money-related.
I think increased stability requires a compound solution though. Yes, more opaque borders, but also increased retirement age, a more strategic approach to investment in tech and innovation, not to mention resource security... Such-like. It would take more than one thing.
Quote from: Asmodean on July 09, 2024, 10:02:53 AMThey'd still build all the time and rent tends to trend upwards just like everything else money-related.
They'd only have to build to replace the old or do improvements to dwellings.
Not much new road building would be required.
QuoteJillian Segal will be Australia's special envoy to combat anti-Semitism. The government will also shortly appoint an envoy on Islamophobia.
Things just get worse and worse, people can't afford a home anywhere, let alone where they grew up. I think the starry eyed diversity promoters sold us a lemon.
Quote from: Tank on July 08, 2024, 04:30:29 PMWhat a load of rubbish. Be sure to tell us if that actually happens.
If that's a reference to Stonesfield:
https://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/17760715.cala-homes-loses-appeal-68-home-plan-stonesfield/
Not too many new homes but it will be enough to destroy the character of the village.
Villagers can now also expect noise and disruption for many months.
New homes will not be made of stone, but featureless brick and mortar, and more are bound to follow.
Passing through south Oxfordshire yesterday I see ugly development is already going on everywhere.
Places like Shrivenham and Farringdon.
They will need more roads to cope with greater car use.
Few people seem to work from home.
A village like Dunchurch in Warwickshire can expect at least 4000 new homes.
In the case of sports grounds local councils have already acquired their land for delelopment.
Not just my local football club, but 4 others nearby and one rugby club are about to go.
But it's fine for people to be homeless?
Every person should have the fundamental right to a home.
But you sound as if you are happy to destroy the green belt with ugly housing.
Take down the trees which are the lungs of the planet is not the right way to go about it.
Quote from: zorkan on July 12, 2024, 12:17:11 PMEvery person should have the fundamental right to a home.
But you sound as if you are happy to destroy the green belt with ugly housing.
Take down the trees which are the lungs of the planet is not the right way to go about it.
I don't sound happy that green belt land is under threat. That's just you displacing onto me. If you read what I wrote rather than what you think I wrote then you will see that I support the Grey Belt proposals and Brown field site development. It is also the case that local councils get the final say where new housing is built. With the change in planning laws areas previously not available could be accessed thus saving the football pitches etc. The Labour government is about devolving power not concentrating it. But we can't go on with the stagnation the current planning laws where tiny NIMBY groups dictate national policy they affects everyone. What was going on was an unparalleled disaster.
Here's an example of "Not in my backyard."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13617923/New-housing-minister-tried-blocking-property-project.html
Now the soft on crime party are giving prisoners an extra 10% off their sentences.
I'll look out for this being advertised outside jails.
If they don't we can expect widespread looting.
https://news.sky.com/story/early-prisoner-release-fears-of-looting-and-unchecked-criminality-if-space-in-jails-not-freed-up-13176801
:rofl:
whats the deal with the conservatives being thrown out?
what is likely to happen to the lives of the ordinary briton?
Quote from: billy rubin on July 13, 2024, 04:16:30 PMwhats the deal with the conservatives being thrown out?
what is likely to happen to the lives of the ordinary briton?
Imagine the party that has governed for 14 years gets thrown out in the greatest political defeat in that parties history. It would be analogous to the Democrats ending up with only a quarter of the seats in both the House of Representatives and Senate.
Well what will happen remains to be seen. Labour have historically been the party of the working man. After WWII it was the Labour party that created our National Health system, in you terms a single payer system where everybody pays into the pot and takes from it when needed. Labour should work from the bottom of society upward. The Conservatives work from the privileged down.
If Labour do what they have said they want to do we should see more people getting a better deal.
best of luck.
over here we re busy trying to dismantle any social benefits for the working and middle classes, and its them who are voting the scoundrels in.
we have major crises here in the states over housing and wages. the system that was in place from the second war until ronald reagan has been mostly removed. i live on 25 acres of farmland that i completely own outright, no debts. i am doing everything i can to keep that property in the family so that no matter what happens, my kids have a place to live that they dont need to spend money on.
they may have to read by oil lamps and shit in a bucket, but they grew up that way.
we have electricity now, but we still shit in a bucket.
Billy, I suspect that your clan might be among the survivors in the long run.
It's interesting to look back and see that Ragan in America and Thatcher over here mark the downturn for low and medium wage people both there and here.
After the public's initial infatuation with the Labour they are now in their honeymoon period.
But will it be long or short?
Their economic model is built more on quicksand than hard rock.
Their tax and spend policies will leave the country bankrupt and a bailout from the IMF can't be ruled out.
They favour mass immigration hoping that immigrants will vote Labour.
Many of the most gifted people will leave the country.
At the end of their term in power Britain will be like a banana republic without bananas.
The pound will be trading at an all time low.
If you don't believe this, it has happened before under Labour.
The Tories will then have to pick up the pieces.
Quote from: zorkan on July 14, 2024, 01:10:21 PMTheir tax and spend policies will leave the country bankrupt and a bailout from the IMF can't be ruled out.
here in america the leftists are always being accused of "tax and spend." and they deserve the label, because thats what they do.
the conservatives, on the other hand, also spend but dont tax-- so they run up the debt. then the leftists come back to the mess and fix it. its a repeat pattern.
both sides recognize that the purpose of government is to institute policies that they think are the best, but only the leftists are willing to pay for them.
In comparison to the UK, I perceive the Democrats are of the right and the Republicans are further to the right.
From right to left in the UK, it's Reform, Conservatives, Liberal Democrats, Labour.
Fringe groups exist further to the right and left.
The only reason it's a battle between Conservative and Labour is control of the centre ground.
When New Labour got into power in 1997, the centre became so congested you could hardly tell the difference between the parties.
The new Labour government is actually old Labour, a style that I thought had become extinct.
Quote from: zorkan on July 14, 2024, 02:03:38 PMIn comparison to the UK, I perceive the Democrats are of the right and the Republicans are further to the right.
^^that is spot on. the democratic party is just as much a shepherd of rich entitled people as the republicans.
what has happed to the spectrum in america is tge republicans have goose-stepped so far to the right that centrist democrats now look like leftists by comparison. the far left wacko wing of the democratic party resembles ordinary centrists in other countries
Quote from: zorkan on July 14, 2024, 01:10:21 PM...
Their tax and spend policies will leave the country bankrupt and a bailout from the IMF can't be ruled out.
..
And who left office leaving behind the largest tax burden since WWII? Yes, that's right the Conservatives! And we owe more money that EVER before! Yay for Conservative fiscal policy!
Hate to think what the tax burden under Labour might have been.
Blame it on Brexit.
Nothing to do with the Pandemic.
When have Labour ever cut taxes?
Our far right wing operatives continue to bleat about preserving the freedoms in America. They constantly use the word "freedom" and do their damnedest to make laws and regulations that remove many of the freedoms that we won when King George decided to leave us to hell alone.
I fail to understand the Moms For Freedom groups. There are chapters of MFF all over the country. One of the main elements of their militant behavior is to remove certain books from school libraries and even campaign to remove books from the public library.
The MAGA bunch constantly talk about the danger of losing our freedoms and at the same time try to remove some of our basic freedoms.
Today our new government tell the country what their first tranche of legislation will be. This is where theory and rhetoric take a back seat.
This is about what I expected.
Starmer is not hosting political leaders in Blackpool, but at Blenheim Palace, Woodstock, Oxfordshire, birthplace of Winston Churchill and where he is also buried close by.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgxqzlnz7jeo
Less than 2 weeks in, he's a Tory.
Quote from: zorkan on July 18, 2024, 12:33:59 PMLess than 2 weeks in, he's a Tory.
I don't know about that, but thus far, I personally don't dislike the guy. Seems...
Generally capable.That's not based on a whole lot, however, so... Opinion subject to potentially rapid and radical change.
Same old story for the incoming government.
The finances are far worse than they could ever have imagined.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c724g07qwdwo
Excuses already to raise taxes.
Excuses to cut the bloat in my book, but then said bloat may go on strike and/or turn violent as a result...
...Politics. A equation of many variables.
Labour announced they will hit vulnerable pensioners by removing winter fuel payments.
That applies in England and Wales but not Scotland.
Yet some parts of England are colder than in Scotland.
Yeah, we have some not dissimilar issues with regards to pensioners. The minimum pension is insufficient in a lot of places, and where the cost of living is low, the infrastructure a pensioner may appreciate, such as good public transport, easy access to healthcare and goods is often lacking.
Last winter, when the electricity prices in my general area were not-uncomparable to diesel, many a pensioner was literally left out in the cold. It's kinda' sad because many of those people have paid their taxes for decades prior to retiring. If nothing else, there should be a robust framework to aid them when they need it. What is a society that does not pay back those who built it..? A rhetorical question. The answer is, "get a globe. Throw a dart. Probably that one. Now, throw another. Probably that one too. Keep doin' it."
Quote from: zorkan on July 30, 2024, 02:29:35 PMLabour announced they will hit vulnerable pensioners by removing winter fuel payments.
That applies in England and Wales but not Scotland.
Yet some parts of England are colder than in Scotland.
Vulnerable pensioners would be those already on benefits and they are not affected. There are plenty of people, me included, who do not need that subsidy yet I would have got it anyway which is ludicrous.
Quote from: zorkan on July 30, 2024, 02:29:35 PMLabour announced they will hit vulnerable pensioners by removing winter fuel payments.
That Labour announcement was poorly worded.
They should hire a new spin guy, boo bad dirty fuel, save the fluffy polar bears.
Pensioners who have a weekly income less than £218.15 can get the winter fuel payment.
Previously it was paid to all pensioners.
Those lucky ones who get over £218.14 may find themselves choosing between heating and eating.
I think it was Labour who introduced this benefit.
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
" It is a means-tested state benefit for low-income retirees over state pension age, which is currently 66 for both men and women, rising to 67 between 2026 and 2028. To qualify, you must live in the UK and have a weekly income of less than £218.15. For couples, this threshold is £332.95. "
Quote from: The Magic Pudding.. on July 31, 2024, 08:49:21 AMboo bad dirty fuel, save the fluffy polar bears.
:smilenod: If absolutely nothing else, that would accomplish sending an enterprising The Asmo on a completely unnecessary and unplanned road trip in an diesel powered vehicle. Maybe even take a ferry or five. Those with massive chimneys on either side. :smilenod:
One month in and Labour is having to deal with violence and unrest in towns and cities which they blame on the far right and not their own leftist policies.
Triggered by fatal stabbings at a dance class for young girls.
Deeper down the unwillingness to do much about illegal immigration.
I think the protestors have a point.
Who governs Britain? The recently elected Labour Party.
Who rules Britain? Ceremonially by King Charles III aided by all his advisors and hangers-on.
Who runs Britain? The capitalists who have created a massive wealth gap which is supposed to be good for us all.
But who really is in effective control here, and has been for generations?
An inner circle or secret society perhaps of intellectuals.
A trail might start here.
https://www.asc.ox.ac.uk/
was the stabbing event related to illegal immigration?
Quote from: zorkan on August 04, 2024, 01:06:19 PMWho runs Britain? The capitalists who have created a massive wealth gap which is supposed to be good for us all.
The Asmo. He is being baited again, is He not? :hooked:
A short and sweet reply, He thinks. The wealth gap you are referring to is an emergent property of some people succeeding in their enterprises in ways others simply cannot. It's not something being actively created. If we are both selling ice cream, though you sell a million units a year for 3 pound 50 a unit, while I only sell ten thousand units a year at 2 pounds a unit, then your potential wealth generation is far greater than mine. But
you are the one selling more/better/smarter, so what do you owe
me for my (relative) failures?
Pesto explains.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Runs-Britain-Whos-Blame-Economic/dp/0340839449
Quote from: billy rubin on August 04, 2024, 10:51:00 PMwas the stabbing event related to illegal immigration?
Social media appeared to suggest so, but the arrested person, aged 17, was born in Wales.
Mainly teenagers were involved in the riots over the weekend. They didn't bother to fact check.
Everyone I speak to is upset about the number of illegal immigrants arriving on small boats.
They are processed and most are placed in comfortable hotels.
Smug politicians living in their own bubble are perceived not to care.
Tory government had a policy on sending them by plane to Rwanda, in an attempt to reduce the numbers.
No such flight ever took off.
Labour was elected and dumped the idea. They have not replaced it with their own deterrent.
you said the protesters have a point.
what is it?
Elon Musk is saying that Britain is heading for an inevitable civil war.
There was civil unrest in Plymouth last night.
The point they (the "thugs") make is that successive governments have ignored the boat crossings, making only promises.
You can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Many find they can't afford to buy homes while the illegal immigrants are housed in 4 star hotels or go to the front of the queue for social housing.
This situation has simply gone on too long.
It's summertime and more people are out on the streets to make more trouble.
I can only advise individuals if they see trouble to just walk away from it.
It's not just the far right there is also provocation from the far left as seen in Plymouth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvAQmfwyttA
Elon Musk has made a very successful career by talking out of his bottom.
Yes, an unfortunate number of people listen to him unfortunately closely, but even a most superficial analyst would find that his "inevitable" is another man's "unlikely."
Oh, there may be violent riots and the like, but a civil war? Between what parties? Where be the head count of those heads that matter? Where would the UK military stand? What would cause the democratic process to fail?
It's a bit like with the more ardent "boog boys" over in States, though their claim accounts for at least a few variables. Closer to civil war than "yesterday?" Perhaps. Close to a civil war, especially irreversibly so? Nah.
The UK is nowhere near civil war ::)
Indeed, that is my impression as well. Social cohesion may be suffering in places, but I don't see a relevant party (as in, party to a potential conflict) either having no other option than armed rebellion or being able to secure a favourable outcome through one.
Societies are fluid that way, and in the more stable ones, you could take steps in the general direction of civil war for decades without ever sparking one.
elon musk is a stupid man with a lot of money. his sole talent appears to be in taking credit for other people's accomplishments.
Quote from: zorkan on August 06, 2024, 11:50:13 AMElon Musk is saying that Britain is heading for an inevitable civil war.
There was civil unrest in Plymouth last night.
The point they (the "thugs") make is that successive governments have ignored the boat crossings, making only promises.
You can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Many find they can't afford to buy homes while the illegal immigrants are housed in 4 star hotels or go to the front of the queue for social housing.
This situation has simply gone on too long.
It's summertime and more people are out on the streets to make more trouble.
I can only advise individuals if they see trouble to just walk away from it.
It's not just the far right there is also provocation from the far left as seen in Plymouth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvAQmfwyttA
"Provocation" eh? Like the "No to Nazis" signs? That's all the video showed coming from "the left." According to a report from Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/plymouth-sustained-violence-against-police-officers-as-bricks-and-fireworks-thrown-13191631) (definitely not a leftist source) the violence was coming from just one of the sides, and it wasn't the left.
Elon Musk is a reliable source for malignant twaddle. If anybody needs more of that, he's their man.
We now appear to know what fuelled the riots, and from a source few people would have known.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y38gjp4ygo
From there to social media and into the heads of thugs, anarchists or whatever you call them.
Some rioters have already received lengthy jail terms.
There was supposed to be big trouble last night, but instead peace broke out.
Governments are also to blame for saying they are going to stop the boats but do next to nothing.
Starmer and his Labour party say they are going to chase after the gangs, without describing how.
The gangs are organising the crossings way behind the lines. From E. Europe and into Asia.
I can only repeat: If you see trouble walk away and let the police deal with it.
Those found guilty of spreading false information also need to be brought to justice if crime is the result.
Just when I thought it couldn't get crazier.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy8497l7dx8t
Good thing there wasn't a civil war. From the look of how things developed, Tommy fucking Yaxley-whatever and his ilk would have fared rather poorly. :snicker1:
Quote from: Recusant on August 08, 2024, 07:19:22 AM"Provocation" eh? Like the "No to Nazis" signs?
Actually, yes. It depends on who you are calling Nazi.
For instance, had I been a little less
me, I would probably find being lumped in with a collectivist ideology rather on the provocative side. From there, if I were even less
me, punches may have been thrown.
That said, one has to wonder, if there is broad dissatisfaction with the porousness of the border of an island nation... That sounds highly fixable, does it not? You row over from France without legal entry - then back to France you row. Obviously there are logistic challenges involved, but somehow I think a nation so experienced with video surveillance would find a way if there were a will.
From where I sit, it's not even a left vs. right issue - it is, if we strain to reduce it to just two variables, probably closer to populist vs. elitist. The UK is not alone in that, as that is more or less my take on the American political climate as well (To reduce it to a first degree approximation, depending on your point of view, it's "illiterate peasants" vote Republican or "useless academics" vote Democrat, and neither side is trying to do anything other than further alienate the dissenters)
Quote from: Recusant on August 09, 2024, 04:24:22 AMGood thing there wasn't a civil war. From the look of how things developed, Tommy fucking Yaxley-whatever and his ilk would have fared rather poorly. :snicker1:
Tommy Robinson (not his real name) is taking the piss out of us all.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13715003/Riddle-Tommy-Robinson-REALLY-gets-money-whip-riots-engulfing-Britain-five-star-sunlounger-despite-declared-bankrupt-squandering-fortune-gambling-drinking.html
"Because while Robinson was declared bankrupt in 2021, he continues to lead a life of luxury. In the past, financial support has come from an opaque network of right-wingers in Canada and the US as well as from online donations and through his work as a 'journalist'."
Yeah, can't effectively "cancel" a thusly-resourceful chap like that. If all else fails - you can use a foreign bank account's debit card more or less as easily as a native one's. There are nations (and transaction facilitators) out there, who will not rat you out to your creditors or even your government, as long as said entities are abroad from the perspective of those nations.
Quote from: Asmodean on August 09, 2024, 07:12:31 AMQuote from: Recusant on August 08, 2024, 07:19:22 AM"Provocation" eh? Like the "No to Nazis" signs?
Actually, yes. It depends on who you are calling Nazi.
For instance, had I been a little less me, I would probably find being lumped in with a collectivist ideology rather on the provocative side. From there, if I were even less me, punches may have been thrown.
Agreed regarding context--if there were a demonstration protesting cuts to the NHS for instance, a counter-protestor holding such a sign would provoke ridicule at best. Somebody holding a sign up as some wannabe
herrenvolk march by is not directing its message at a particular individual in any case.
ETA: On the other hand, punching somebody because they're holding a "No to Nazis" sign sort of gives away the game, so to speak.
Quote from: Recusant on August 09, 2024, 06:40:36 PMETA: On the other hand, punching somebody because they're holding a "No to Nazis" sign sort of gives away the game, so to speak.
I completely agree and take it one step further to say that that diminishes whatever credibility that cause may have had in my eyes.
That's not to say, however, that the action was not
provoked. Just that the person in question rose to provocation in rather a disproportionate and probably not well-considered manner.
The underlying issue here is this; if you hold a "no-nazis" sign towards me walking by, or "worse," bar my way holding one, then I may quite reasonably infer that it is
me you are trying to address. And, again, in this example, "me" being a bar-fightly sort of chap who also lost two grandfathers in the Battle of Britain and himself having served multiple tours in the "oil wars," thinking he served his country and her people with honour... That "me"
might choose to let an fist do some 'splaining. Not
rightfully so, but there it is.
Young people waving signs with reference to the Nazi's or Fascists standing in opposition makes me wonder if they know what a Nazi or Fascist actually was.
We need clearer definition.
The leader of the Reform Party and his fellow MP's are also classed in this way, which promotes dangerous politics.
Quote from: zorkan on August 12, 2024, 03:20:30 PMYoung people waving signs with reference to the Nazi's or Fascists standing in opposition makes me wonder if they know what a Nazi or Fascist actually was.
Yeah... I've been lamenting the watering-down of formerly-"heavyweight" words in recent times. "Nazi" barely means anything anymore. It can simply be someone who happens to disagree with your world view. Doesn't call for country above self, doesn't want businesses to serve political interests first, doesn't even mind the Jews, and yet... The same is broadly true of "racist." "Sexist" too, to a degree. You could blame them "cultural Feminists" for that one.
Personally, I've been called every name under the Sun since the mid-teens (2010s - not since
I was a teen) but usually, it was by people who have not the slightest idea what they are talking about, so... Over time, I became completely desensitised to hearing others described so. These days, my reaction to someone saying "A is a Nazi" is more along the lines of "Yeah, yeah, whatever" rather than "Oh! What he done?"
According to Benito Mussolini fascism is corporatism, The merging/marriage of government and industry. :)
Fascism is, in a way, "Collectivist Corporatism."
Nazism adds an element of nationalist... Statism, I suppose. Hmm... Is Fascism a Socialist ideology? Not initially/not really, is it..? Then that, too. Nazism has many Socialist traits.
So what are atheists:
Nazi's, Fascists or Stalinists?
I would have to assume that there are Atheists who are one or more of the above.
What atheists are not, are monolithic, beyond certain commonalities with regard to matters of faith in the divine.
Heck, I'd go so far as to say that there are plenty of "religious" atheists out there - it's just that the objects of their faith are mundane, sometimes ideological in nature, rather than transnatural or supernatural.
What are atheists? A group of people united by little, except their lack of belief in deities as presented by believers in said deities.
I don't care if they call me a fascist.
But if they refer to me as a Starmerite, then I'm upset.
https://thecritic.co.uk/socialism-with-starmerite-characteristics/
The situation is now so desperate that "two-tier Keir", as he is now called has cancelled his summer break.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/15/keir-starmer-summer-holiday-break-politics
Heard on the radio this morning he might not be around for long, then he can have a long break.
Don't be fooled that into thinking this satellite will be used purely for military purposes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d77yq9zz2o
It will be used by Starmer to spy on the working classes.
Just as I suspected, Labour having already hit pensioners hard, now start to plunge the healthcare system into crisis.
https://news.sky.com/story/doctors-warn-8am-scramble-for-gp-appointments-wont-end-without-more-funding-13198358
Election promise broken.
Just when I thought Starmer couldn't get any stupider.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-starmer-removes-portrait-margaret-thatcher/
The portrait in question. Is that the one in the title image? Because I can see absolutely nothing unsettling about it. It's just a lady, looking all prime-ministerial.
More likely it was this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvy87wgjzvo
I'm thinking that Starmer may already have replaced it with a picture of Karl Marx.
Meanwhile, there could be a run on the pound if pensioners are not punished.
https://news.sky.com/story/economy-could-have-crashed-if-winter-fuel-payments-for-pensioners-werent-cut-labour-minister-claims-13207619
https://www.facebook.com/PrivateEyeNews/photos/pensioners-go-cold-on-labourthe-new-private-eye-is-out-now/947778534059419/
Well... If he finds that portrait unsettling, then I suppose he really should steer clear of art galleries.
...Or is he unsettled by who the portrait is of, in which case... I'd say "cry me a river, snowflake."
I suppose Starmer and Thatcher would not have got on well.
In terms of religion, Starmer is an atheist and Thatcher was a Methodist turned Church of England (1).
Thatcher was guided from Above to fight the Marxist unions and the president of Argentina.
https://humanists.uk/2024/07/05/non-religious-prime-ministers-a-history/
Very different to New Labour's Tony Blair who it would appear was guided by god to take his country to war.
Different to just about every US president who needs to have god on his side to win an election.
(1) For those not acquainted with the C-of-E it's "god's church in England".
Quote from: zorkan on September 03, 2024, 12:57:45 PMDifferent to just about every US president who needs to have god on his side to win an election.
the american religion thing is actually a more recent creation of the american right wing's decision to make abortion a political litmus-- they courted the evangelicals and got the bathwater along with the baby.
john kennedy's catholicism was a minor issue in 1960, but as late as ronald reagan people didnt emphasize a candidates religion. reagan famously never went to a church service in his two terms that i know about.
Yes, I seem to remember reading about that somewhere. I wonder what changed..? Did the American society become more religiously observant, or maybe just those who already were got more vocal/into power?
abortion was a non-issue for most people until the conservative activists started searching for a single issue they could push to drag in evangelicals and catholics into politics.
they chose abortion and spent decades persuading people that ir was important, with great success.
Where does the bible explicitly forbid abortion?
It appears to allow it in some circumstances, like when the mother's life is in danger.
The subject comes up rarely in UK politics.
to my knowledge it does not forbid abortion. that position is an inference made from passages about other matters.
numbers and exodus both contain related passages about death of a foetus through injury to the mother or judicial proceedings. probably more than just those.
where is the passage that appears to allow abortion if the the womans life is in danger?
Depending on how you interpret it, then Exodus 21 does seem to suggest a woman's life is more important than her unborn baby.
Pregnancies can be terminated in natural and unnatural ways.
The Commandments could have made the issue clear, but like so many other important things it doesn't even mention it, leaving only interpretation.
If a Catholic is ever asked for their views on abortion by a priest, I would advise them to ask the priest for a clear reference in the bible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mound
I'll interpret this that a woman has the right to choose an abortion, or not.
The Catholics consider the sola scriptura doctrine to be heretical. Trying to browbeat a Catholic priest with the Bible is a fool's errand.
Quote from: zorkanIt appears to allow it in some circumstances, like when the mother's life is in danger.
so ^^^this is an error, then.
Quote from: billy rubin on September 04, 2024, 01:39:09 PMabortion was a non-issue for most people until the conservative activists started searching for a single issue they could push to drag in evangelicals and catholics into politics.
Was a non-issue for me, until my mother had one, and even then I spent a decade and a half slowly arriving at the conclusion that I had been wrong for all that time.
It is an issue, and it is a complex one at that.
i personally am against abortion, for the same reasons i am against ending any human life through force or intervention.
but the conflict is between a life and anothers body autonomy. in that case my opinion defaults to the body autonomy.
i see forced birth as similar to forced organ donation. someone gets to use your body for their benefit, against your will. one is unthinkable to most people. the other we argue over.
In my opinion all abortions are failures. Failures of contraception and forward planning mainly. And I totally agree with the body autonomy issue.
yes
but the issue of medical problems is serious. ectopic pregancies and chemotherapy
What's to be done?
Quote from: billy rubin on September 07, 2024, 10:37:00 AMyes
but the issue of medical problems is serious. ectopic pregancies and chemotherapy
Agreed. I would consider these medical issues in the first place and not even an abortion issue as such.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding.. on September 07, 2024, 11:48:12 AMWhat's to be done?
I'd start by keeping the Fed(tm) out of it and delegate it to community issue.
Abortion should be available. Unrestricted/no-questions-asked abortion..? Probably not.
Body autonomy issue is of course a thing. There is a flipside to it though. If you had the sex because you felt like it and got stuck with a regular run-of-the-mill pregnancy, that raises different issues from you having been molested by your uncle and having an ectopic. There are degrees of personal responsibility there, and in a subset of cases, making the woman carry the pregnancy to term may be justifiable.
It's been a great week for Starmer and Labour.
Any attempt to reinstate winter fuel payments defeated in the Commons.
Up to 5000 pensioners could die of the cold this winter.
1750 prisoners allowed out of jail having served only 40% of their sentences.
Some are already back inside having breached their terms of release.
UK missiles to be sent to Ukraine which could be fired into Russia and potentially spark a nuclear war with NATO.
If one reaches Moscow then look out London.
That really would be Starmergeddon.
Quote from: zorkan on September 14, 2024, 12:42:56 PMUK missiles to be sent to Ukraine which could be fired into Russia and potentially spark a nuclear war with NATO.
I wouldn't worry about that overmuch. The Bear(tm) is dead and has been for a couple of decades. Putin's "red lines" are just empty talk at this point.
QuoteIf one reaches Moscow then look out London.
That really would be Starmergeddon.
Yeah. The shoe-leather-face-what's-his-name-foreign-secretary guy would go on TV and engage in fiery and brimstony rhetoric. Whatever would The West(tm) do?!
After the great pensioner robbery, Starmer already embroiled in Wardrobegate.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13853669/daily-mail-comment-wardrobegate-sleaze-keir-starmer-lady-starmer.html
Here's why Starmer is so gifted.
https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-declares-gifts-and-freebies-totalling-more-than-100-000-the-highest-of-any-mp-13217287
Losing a whopping 20 points in popularity Starmer and his inner circle are now going to decline the free clothes, gifts and tickets.
As the chief prosecutor at the time of allegations made against Mohammed Al-Fayed, Starmer will decline to comment.
But he must have known.
Think of Fayed as Savile, Weinstein and Epstein rolled into one monster.
He got away with it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/19/starmer-mohamed-fayed-assault-crown-prosecution-service/?msockid=2d12e4d06f9069ff2ed3f1d16e6b68ce
Quote from: Recusant on September 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PMThe Catholics consider the sola scriptura doctrine to be heretical. Trying to browbeat a Catholic priest with the Bible is a fool's errand.
Not hard to do, tell a clergyman there's an alternate interpretation of creation and can explain it he'll cease and desist pronto. In an exchange on Rumble few days ago He couldn't explain why he didn't know that. He was not a happy camper.
They get into power, it goes to their heads, they think they now walk on water.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
"4 legs good 2 legs better."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6_tTlvvqpw
Quote from: Old Seer on September 21, 2024, 04:38:57 PMQuote from: Recusant on September 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PMThe Catholics consider the sola scriptura doctrine to be heretical. Trying to browbeat a Catholic priest with the Bible is a fool's errand.
Not hard to do, tell a clergyman there's an alternate interpretation of creation and can explain it he'll cease and desist pronto. In an exchange on Rumble few days ago He couldn't explain why he didn't know that. He was not a happy camper.
what alternate interpretation was that?
im interested.
There is an alternate interpretation of creation.
We are a laboratory for evolution set up by aliens.
It's why our planet has more water than it should.
It was drained off from other planets like Mars.
Might get a slot on Ancient Aliens series 21 for that.
Following Labour's attack on pensioner's incomes and the upcoming attack on working "non-workers" in the budget, we now see footage of an attack by a Labour MP on a man in the street.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38qV_s2dK8k
Quote from: zorkan on September 30, 2024, 10:00:19 AMIt's why our planet has more water than it should.
...But it does not. It has the water it
has. There is not a "should."
Now, the causes for it having the amount of water it has, as opposed to a different amount, those are a-whole-nother discussion. Any combination of aliens, mostly-water-celestial-body collisions, alien-induced collisions of named variety or even The Flood(tm).
(My point, by the way, is that the amount of water does not point specifically to aliens, nor even strongly imply their involvement. It works like this: humans plant fir trees for use as Christmas decorations. There is an abundance of fir trees in that there forest *point.* Therefore, humans planted said forest. Except, of course, they did no such thing.)
Then you tell me where all the water went on Mars.
https://time.com/7018680/where-did-all-of-mars-water-go/
"Two principal theories prevail for where all the water went: it either retreated into the ground or sublimed away into space."
The Earth has a mass 10 times that of Mars.
Different orbits would almost certainly have brought them closer together.
This is not necessarily a Velikovskian fable.
Earth sucked the water off Mars, possibly about 500 million years ago, and not 3 billion, at the time of snowball earth.
Mars is relatively light, and without a magnetosphere to speak of, atmospheric gases (including water vapor) would get "blown off" the planet by solar wind.
What water Mars lost is likely in the asteroid belt, the Jovian system and so forth. There is some possibility that a massive enough hit resulted in significant enough amount of debris from Mars reaching Earth, but I have precisely zero data to speculate on the magnitude of "Martian pollution." (Which is not to say that such data does not exist - I simply do not know)
I assume that the oceans stay intact on earth because in freefall the planet is weightless.
Mars is in freefall like any other object in the entire universe.
Only when one massive body nears another is there some sort of attraction, so I don't think the solar wind would play a part in the vanished oceans of Mars.
No, the oceans stay intact because "all" water that evaporates comes back down as rain or snow. It's a combination of enough gravity, enough magnetosphere and enough atmosphere.
On Mars, proportionally more atmospheric water gets "sandblasted" off the planet by solar wind. The atmosphere is thin and the magnetosphere is comparatively weak, as is gravity, so it's a harder life being a water molecule in the atmosphere of Mars than being one on Earth. You are liable to get your ass split, shoved rudely into space and such-like.
If the earth is moving in space at about 60,000 mph and 1.4 million miles an earth-day then the liquid oceans should blow off, but they don't.
Gravity is a myth. It's the indirect cause of the warping of space-time.
We don't have a proven theory of quantum gravity and time is only a form of energy.
That's why it's impossible to explain.
The next prime minister once the trade unions have brought down Labour will be:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c2e7xgx11mgt
Quote from: zorkan on November 01, 2024, 11:37:10 AMIf the earth is moving in space at about 60,000 mph and 1.4 million miles an earth-day then the liquid oceans should blow off,
No more than you should be squished into chili con carne from being in a car doing 130 kilometers per hour.
Quotebut they don't.
...Any more than you do in the above example. What outside forces do you propose to rid the Earth of its liquid water?
QuoteGravity is a myth. It's the indirect cause of the warping of space-time.
Those two are mutually-exclusive. Either it is a myth, or it is the geometry of space.
QuoteWe don't have a proven theory of quantum gravity and time is only a form of energy.
What does quantum gravity have to do with it? The model for how liquids and gases "stay" on a planet is plenty adequate without it.
QuoteThat's why it's impossible to explain.
You and your big, weighty words! ;)
It's explainable using the knowledge we have. An imperfect explanation though it may be, it is
practically sufficient. You could even use the existing model to do stuff like predict the thickness of the atmosphere and the presence of liquids on a hypothetical planet.
Quote from: zorkan on November 01, 2024, 11:37:10 AMIf the earth is moving in space at about 60,000 mph and 1.4 million miles an earth-day then the liquid oceans should blow off, but they don't.
Gravity is a myth. It's the indirect cause of the warping of space-time.
We don't have a proven theory of quantum gravity and time is only a form of energy.
That's why it's impossible to explain.
Has or valued friend Zorkan been into the sauce?
Until we have a proven theory of quantum gravity we don't even know if anything at all exists.
Not even the earth.
According to Carlo Rovelli, nothing exists apart from quantum waves.
"A world where nothing exists, except in its relation to something else. It is time, Rovelli asserts, for these deeply radical ideas to be absorbed into the whole of contemporary culture."
Might expain in part why we never feel the motion of the earth.
Quote from: zorkan on November 06, 2024, 11:40:04 AMUntil we have a proven theory of quantum gravity we don't even know if anything at all exists.
Not even the earth.
That is untrue
prima facie. A theory of quantum gravity would make it easier to connect certain other theories and unify our understanding of reality. It does not, however,
need to be unified to exist in a workable state.
QuoteAccording to Carlo Rovelli, nothing exists apart from quantum waves.
Sounds like reductionist nonsense. "Carrots are made of atoms, therefore nothing but atoms exists." It's a "meaningless" observation because while technically true, it's the particular combinations of said atoms that set their structures apart.
QuoteMight expain in part why we never feel the motion of the earth.
It's quite simply too big for us to feel the centripetal acceleration. The rest of it is more or less to a dot as described in my car example. You do not feel constant motion within a system because you do not move or have inertial differences versus that system. Standing still for you means moving at the same velocity as the real estate you occupy - be it your room, a airplane or a car. Had the Earth been much smaller or rotated much faster, you would have felt the centripetal acceleration from being on a curved surface. Because of its size, however, you can consider your bit of said surface to be flat.
Reason why you don't feel the motion of a plane flying at 500 mph or a car at 50 mph is because the object that started the journey is not the same one that finishes it.
Suggest you read Julian Barbour on that one.
The ancient Greeks also knew it, and it might have occurred to Galileo.
The reason you don't feel the motion of a airplane flying is quite simply that the sum total of forces acting on your body is -1G. (The floor is "pressing up" on the soles of your feet with the force of the Earth's gravity. There are some variations there, but in general, they are too small to notice or to remain noticable once you've gotten used to it.)
You do usually feel the plane accelerating or decelerating when performing "larger" manoeuvers. The relative magnitude of those changes is often great enough for that.
Barbour has an occasional interesting thought, as did them Greeks. That is, however, irrelevant so long as their models of reality remain inferior to other common models.
Quote from: Asmodean on November 07, 2024, 07:43:25 AMThe reason you don't feel the motion of a airplane flying is quite simply that the sum total of forces acting on your body is -1G. (The floor is "pressing up" on the soles of your feet with the force of the Earth's gravity. There are some variations there, but in general, they are too small to notice or to remain noticable once you've gotten used to it.)
Rubbish.
QuoteYou do usually feel the plane accelerating or decelerating when performing "larger" manoeuvers. The relative magnitude of those changes is often great enough for that.
Whut?
QuoteBarbour has an occasional interesting thought, as did them Greeks. That is, however, irrelevant so long as their models of reality remain inferior to other common models.
Then you tell him that.
http://www.platonia.com/contact.html
Quote from: zorkan on November 08, 2024, 11:34:24 AMRubbish.
Workable rubbish, however. Useful for predicting behaviour of objects with a generally adequate degree of precision. To put it thusly, when Newton is enough, you don't
have to use Einstein.
QuoteWhut?
You get squeezed into your chair on takeof because the airplanes acceleration is great enough for you to notice the effects of your own body's inertia. Similarly, you may feel pulled to the left or the right during steep banking due to centripetal acceleration. (The plane is moving in an ark, while your body "wants" to carry on linear motion)
QuoteThen you tell him that.
http://www.platonia.com/contact.html
What on Earth for? He's not here spewing nonsense, now is he? ;)
He's living at a farm in South Newington near Banbury which recently made headlines for rainfall.
You should visit the medieval church there.
He even ran for parliament once or twice.
His most recent book is The Janus Point; A New Theory of Time.
I like his ideas about parallel worlds to explain time, motion and energy.
Well, as I said, the hypotheses are interesting enough. Whether or not they can or will "go anywhere," however... Currently, I'd say "probably not," but that is of course subject to change with the way our understanding of reality changes ang improves. At present though, there is little reason to think that Barbour's hypothesis is a better representation of reality than what we have to work with "on the daily."
That said, however, it may well be that his thinking has progressed and evolved - the last I've read was probably around mid-naughties-to-early-teens. Back then... Nah. Kinda-pointless.
I do like myself-self some Medieval architecture though, so... Is it St. Mary's? Looks highly visit-worthy, indeed, judging by the photos.
It's St Peter ad Vincula but not the only medieval church with amazing wall paintings.
https://www.britainexpress.com/counties/oxfordshire/churches/south-newington.htm
Kempley in Gloucestershire is also good.
https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/st-marys-church-kempley/history/
When you're in Herefordshire - Kilpeck is a must.
https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/19494566.pictures-rude-hereford-church-carving-gone-viral/
If you have time.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/from-here-to-eternity-02
Quality advice right there.
I'm contemplating a "history crawl" come summer - perhaps in England. If so, I shall certainly visit some of those locations. :smilenod:
I'm generally more interested in architecture, but wall paintings, carvings and decoration techniques have a different sort of appeal.
How's he going to do it?
Can't just be a donation.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-is-right-behind-us-boasts-nigel-farage-reform-uk/
I know we're now in 2025, but 2024 still lives on.
P.M. Keir Starmer will be lucky to survive the year, especially now Musk is after him.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2kxe344wp7o
Starmer was head of the Crown Prosecution Service (2008-13) when appalling events were being largely ignored.
Warning: Very distressing content.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal