Title: the banana
Post by: quizlixx on July 16, 2008, 04:21:42 PM
Post by: quizlixx on July 16, 2008, 04:21:42 PM
has anyone else heard of the "banana argument" ? it says that the bana is proof that god exists because it a good shape to hold and it comes in a wrapper.
i was sitting there with my jaw on the floor thinking, really a belife in an invisible man cause of a banana?
i was sitting there with my jaw on the floor thinking, really a belife in an invisible man cause of a banana?
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: AncientToaster on July 16, 2008, 04:26:14 PM
Post by: AncientToaster on July 16, 2008, 04:26:14 PM
Nope. But you must admit, it's an incredibly compelling argument. [/sarcasm]
Austin Schaefer
Austin Schaefer
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Tom62 on July 16, 2008, 04:41:01 PM
Post by: Tom62 on July 16, 2008, 04:41:01 PM
Yes, I've heard about that argument and seen the video clip somewhere on YouTube. For me that is the absolute proof that some Christian fundamentalists are even more stupid than Muslim fundamentalists.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 16, 2008, 04:43:54 PM
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 16, 2008, 04:43:54 PM
Yes the atheist nightmare...Haha we have Kirk Cameron to thank for this and some other idoit.Poor guy can't get a job on tv anymore so he has to do something.One of their "points" is that the banana is shaped just for a human hand.Another how it has a non-slip surface.Friggin idoits.They keep pulling at straws.
[youtube:1rna2lzr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4[/youtube:1rna2lzr]
[youtube:1rna2lzr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4[/youtube:1rna2lzr]
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: curiosityandthecat on July 16, 2008, 05:15:39 PM
Post by: curiosityandthecat on July 16, 2008, 05:15:39 PM
Here's a quick debunking of the entire theory (as if it was difficult):
[youtube:1v80oalk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo[/youtube:1v80oalk]
[youtube:1v80oalk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo[/youtube:1v80oalk]
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Will on July 16, 2008, 05:47:56 PM
Post by: Will on July 16, 2008, 05:47:56 PM
:banna:
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 16, 2008, 05:51:07 PM
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 16, 2008, 05:51:07 PM
I can think of many things that fit perfectly into the human hand.I'm sure all you guys know what I'm talking about. 
That must mean that God approves.
That must mean that God approves.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 16, 2008, 05:54:52 PM
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 16, 2008, 05:54:52 PM
Quote from: "Willravel":banna: "How dare they associate such a horrible and ignorant argument with me!" :banna:You need a Wiki page for them so all can see and bask in your food goodness!
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Will on July 16, 2008, 05:58:48 PM
Post by: Will on July 16, 2008, 05:58:48 PM
curiosityandthecat linked to an absolutely perfect debunking, where not only is the shape explainable, but it's explainable through evolution! You've gotta love that. 
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Jolly Sapper on July 16, 2008, 06:29:19 PM
Post by: Jolly Sapper on July 16, 2008, 06:29:19 PM
Maybe its because I'm a godless heathen.. but watching the "Atheist's Nightmare" clip with the sound off satisfies both my urge to make situations funny and grossly inappropriate.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Asmodean on July 16, 2008, 06:40:48 PM
Post by: Asmodean on July 16, 2008, 06:40:48 PM
Quote from: "afreethinker30"I can think of many things that fit perfectly into the human hand.I'm sure all you guys know what I'm talking about. :unsure: (
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Loffler on July 16, 2008, 10:37:19 PM
Post by: Loffler on July 16, 2008, 10:37:19 PM
Here's a blog I did on the subject a few months ago:
http://askatheistbob.wordpress.com/2008 ... anana-who/ (http://askatheistbob.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/banana-who/)
Dear Atheist Bob,
I present to you “The Banana: The Atheist Nightmare.†Note that the banana:
1. is shaped for the human hand.
2. has a non-slip surface.
3. Has outward indicators of it’s inward contents. Green - too early, yellow - just right, black - too late.
4. Has a tab for removal of it’s wrapper.
5. Is perforated on wrapper.
6. Has a bio-degradable wrapper.
7. Is shaped for the human mouth.
8. Has a point at the top for ease of entry.
9. Is pleasing to the taste buds.
10. Is curved towards the face to make the eating process easy.
Are you stupid enough to say this is all coincidence?
Chad in Charlotte
Dear Chad,
Skeptics and evolutionists first began encountering this argument when Kirk Cameron and Brian Sapient presented it on Youtube as part of their series on nonsense. I will address your points one by one, but I will start by showing you this:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg108.imageshack.us%2Fimg108%2F6620%2Finsideawildtypebananaup2.jpg&hash=10be6c20e6679b760cd848333eb6fb0886f72c76) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg)
This is a cross section of a banana as they appear in the wild. Note the abundance of big, fat seeds which you may recall are absent from the bananas you eat. Why is this? Because bananas have been selectively cultivated (bred) to be more suitable for human consumption. But even before we came along to augment them for our own needs, natural selection was doing part of the work for us: the reason plants grow sweet fruit is so that animals will pick it, eat it, and scatter the seeds through messy eating or through their leavings. The more hospitable the fruit, the more successful the plant. The bright colors, the ease of extraction, the delicious taste â€" primordial marketing.
Your points:
1. is shaped for the human hand. The banana probably came about in proximity with primates, as suggested by their handle-like shape. Brachiating primates travel far in the treetops and use their hands to grab and eat fruit â€" the banana probably adapted to suit these needs, as the tastiest and most convenient fruits tended to be eaten first by primate and hence spread the farthest.
2. has a non-slip surface. Most surfaces on Earth are non-slip surfaces. I suppose you think that’s for mankind’s benefit too.
3. Has outward indicators of it’s inward contents. Green - too early, yellow - just right, black - too late. This has more to do with the our preference for eating them when they’re at their most ripe. Green and black bananas aren’t actually bad for you (with the exception of bananas so old they’re rotting).
Furthermore, cultivated bananas are much brighter and unblemished in color than wild bananas. Humans are mostly responsible for the uniformity of the color-coding system.
4. Has a tab for removal of it’s wrapper. See answer #1.
5. Is perforated on wrapper. Wild bananas are actually tougher and more difficult to open than cultivated bananas.
6. Has a bio-degradable wrapper. Everything humans eat is biodegradable. Furthermore, “biodegradable†is not a virtue; it is a preference which gains utility in proportion to the abundance of non-biodegradable materials in our surroundings. We currently value things that decay because we don’t have enough room for everything to be permanent.
7. Is shaped for the human mouth. No it isn’t. It isn’t even bite-sized. We have to eat it one bite at a time as a result.
8. Has a point at the top for ease of entry. This is really just a third manifestation of #4 and #5.
9. Is pleasing to the taste buds. As stated above, this is part natural and part artificial. We farmed them to be pleasing.
10. Is curved towards the face to make the eating process easy. No it’s not. Only half of all bananas I’ve eaten were pointed anywhere near my direction. The rest I had to turn to eat.
http://askatheistbob.wordpress.com/2008 ... anana-who/ (http://askatheistbob.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/banana-who/)
Dear Atheist Bob,
I present to you “The Banana: The Atheist Nightmare.†Note that the banana:
1. is shaped for the human hand.
2. has a non-slip surface.
3. Has outward indicators of it’s inward contents. Green - too early, yellow - just right, black - too late.
4. Has a tab for removal of it’s wrapper.
5. Is perforated on wrapper.
6. Has a bio-degradable wrapper.
7. Is shaped for the human mouth.
8. Has a point at the top for ease of entry.
9. Is pleasing to the taste buds.
10. Is curved towards the face to make the eating process easy.
Are you stupid enough to say this is all coincidence?
Chad in Charlotte
Dear Chad,
Skeptics and evolutionists first began encountering this argument when Kirk Cameron and Brian Sapient presented it on Youtube as part of their series on nonsense. I will address your points one by one, but I will start by showing you this:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg108.imageshack.us%2Fimg108%2F6620%2Finsideawildtypebananaup2.jpg&hash=10be6c20e6679b760cd848333eb6fb0886f72c76) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg)
This is a cross section of a banana as they appear in the wild. Note the abundance of big, fat seeds which you may recall are absent from the bananas you eat. Why is this? Because bananas have been selectively cultivated (bred) to be more suitable for human consumption. But even before we came along to augment them for our own needs, natural selection was doing part of the work for us: the reason plants grow sweet fruit is so that animals will pick it, eat it, and scatter the seeds through messy eating or through their leavings. The more hospitable the fruit, the more successful the plant. The bright colors, the ease of extraction, the delicious taste â€" primordial marketing.
Your points:
1. is shaped for the human hand. The banana probably came about in proximity with primates, as suggested by their handle-like shape. Brachiating primates travel far in the treetops and use their hands to grab and eat fruit â€" the banana probably adapted to suit these needs, as the tastiest and most convenient fruits tended to be eaten first by primate and hence spread the farthest.
2. has a non-slip surface. Most surfaces on Earth are non-slip surfaces. I suppose you think that’s for mankind’s benefit too.
3. Has outward indicators of it’s inward contents. Green - too early, yellow - just right, black - too late. This has more to do with the our preference for eating them when they’re at their most ripe. Green and black bananas aren’t actually bad for you (with the exception of bananas so old they’re rotting).
Furthermore, cultivated bananas are much brighter and unblemished in color than wild bananas. Humans are mostly responsible for the uniformity of the color-coding system.
4. Has a tab for removal of it’s wrapper. See answer #1.
5. Is perforated on wrapper. Wild bananas are actually tougher and more difficult to open than cultivated bananas.
6. Has a bio-degradable wrapper. Everything humans eat is biodegradable. Furthermore, “biodegradable†is not a virtue; it is a preference which gains utility in proportion to the abundance of non-biodegradable materials in our surroundings. We currently value things that decay because we don’t have enough room for everything to be permanent.
7. Is shaped for the human mouth. No it isn’t. It isn’t even bite-sized. We have to eat it one bite at a time as a result.
8. Has a point at the top for ease of entry. This is really just a third manifestation of #4 and #5.
9. Is pleasing to the taste buds. As stated above, this is part natural and part artificial. We farmed them to be pleasing.
10. Is curved towards the face to make the eating process easy. No it’s not. Only half of all bananas I’ve eaten were pointed anywhere near my direction. The rest I had to turn to eat.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: McQ on July 17, 2008, 12:12:35 AM
Post by: McQ on July 17, 2008, 12:12:35 AM
Quote from: "afreethinker30"I can think of many things that fit perfectly into the human hand.I'm sure all you guys know what I'm talking about. :hail:
Nice one!
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: susangail on July 17, 2008, 01:55:08 AM
Post by: susangail on July 17, 2008, 01:55:08 AM
Oh wow, I never realized this before! The banana is the perfect shape for the human hand AND has it's own wrapper?!?! Damn! That IS too complicated to happen by chance. Wow, now I've seen the errors of my heathen ways. I'm going theist guys!
*shakes head* so sad.
*shakes head* so sad.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Loffler on July 17, 2008, 02:08:13 AM
Post by: Loffler on July 17, 2008, 02:08:13 AM
Quote from: "susangail"Oh wow, I never realized this before! The banana is the perfect shape for the human hand AND has it's own wrapper?!?! Damn! That IS too complicated to happen by chance. Wow, now I've seen the errors of my heathen ways. I'm going theist guys!
*shakes head* so sad.
And when you pick it up, it's pointed at your goddamn face!!
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Jolly Sapper on July 17, 2008, 03:35:11 AM
Post by: Jolly Sapper on July 17, 2008, 03:35:11 AM
Quote from: "Loffler"10. Is curved towards the face to make the eating process easy. No it’s not. Only half of all bananas I’ve eaten were pointed anywhere near my direction. The rest I had to turn to eat.
Quote from: "Loffler"And when you pick it up, it's pointed at your goddamn face!!
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 17, 2008, 03:39:37 AM
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 17, 2008, 03:39:37 AM
Quote from: "Asmodean"Quote from: "afreethinker30"I can think of many things that fit perfectly into the human hand.I'm sure all you guys know what I'm talking about. :unsure: (
Yep!Well then if a banana is God's way of telling us he is there,then it must be ok to use the banana as we please right?I mean god made it.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: quizlixx on July 17, 2008, 04:56:31 AM
Post by: quizlixx on July 17, 2008, 04:56:31 AM
i'd much prefer an apple over a banana any day, take that kirk cameron.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: jrosebud on July 17, 2008, 06:18:53 AM
Post by: jrosebud on July 17, 2008, 06:18:53 AM
So what would we surmise about God from pondering a durian? It's covered in spikes, hard to open, and smells like "pig-shit, turpentine and onions, garnished with a gym sock" (as described by Jon Winokur).
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: crocofish on July 17, 2008, 06:25:05 AM
Post by: crocofish on July 17, 2008, 06:25:05 AM
The list of banana features reminds me of this xkcd.com comic (http://xkcd.com/388/).
If bananas are so tasty and made by god for humans, did god want us to not eat tasty pineapples?
If bananas are so tasty and made by god for humans, did god want us to not eat tasty pineapples?
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 17, 2008, 04:07:28 PM
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 17, 2008, 04:07:28 PM
Oh I'm sure if you're bored enough you can think up so many things god has made just for man.How silly to see god in fruit.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Asmodean on July 17, 2008, 07:07:52 PM
Post by: Asmodean on July 17, 2008, 07:07:52 PM
There have probably been tens and hundreds of jesus-sightings in fruit and vegetables... 
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: MariaEvri on July 18, 2008, 01:18:09 PM
Post by: MariaEvri on July 18, 2008, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"Quote from: "Loffler"And when you pick it up, it's pointed at your goddamn face!!
I picked it up but it asnt pointed at my face. It was pointed at... something else on me which I shall no name. I've been tricked!
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Loffler on July 18, 2008, 04:48:28 PM
Post by: Loffler on July 18, 2008, 04:48:28 PM
Quote from: "MariaEvri"Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"Quote from: "Loffler"And when you pick it up, it's pointed at your goddamn face!!
I picked it up but it asnt pointed at my face. It was pointed at... something else on me which I shall no name. I've been tricked!
DO NOT EAT THAT BANANA. IT WAS MADE BY THE DECEIVER.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Jolly Sapper on July 18, 2008, 04:50:09 PM
Post by: Jolly Sapper on July 18, 2008, 04:50:09 PM
"Banana Domesticius... Gods gift to Humanity or the Devil's Fruit?
Next on 20/20"
Next on 20/20"
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 18, 2008, 05:22:26 PM
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 18, 2008, 05:22:26 PM
But wait...there's more.Peanut butter the new nightmare This guy had some major issues listening in science class.
[youtube:2kxhf2vr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504[/youtube:2kxhf2vr]
This guy had some major issues listening in science class.[youtube:2kxhf2vr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504[/youtube:2kxhf2vr]
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: susangail on July 18, 2008, 05:54:23 PM
Post by: susangail on July 18, 2008, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: "afreethinker30"But wait...there's more.Peanut butter the new nightmareI'm trying to decide which one is more ridiculous..... banana, peanut butter, banana, peanut butter.... Damn.
[youtube:3bpo7kd8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504[/youtube:3bpo7kd8]
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: quizlixx on July 18, 2008, 06:48:33 PM
Post by: quizlixx on July 18, 2008, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: "afreethinker30"But wait...there's more.Peanut butter the new nightmare
[youtube:3o2egkrw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504[/youtube:3o2egkrw]
i'm really trying to see it from his point of view, someone explain this
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Asmodean on July 18, 2008, 07:39:47 PM
Post by: Asmodean on July 18, 2008, 07:39:47 PM
Ok... Even if it was a valid argument, it would still hold no merit unless someone actually analysed every microgram of peanut butter in every peanut butter jar ever made for presence of un-known life forms. You can't just jumble the components together and expect a rabbit to jump out of your hat. If there is new life in peanut butter, it's likely as small as the smallest bacteria.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Tom62 on July 18, 2008, 09:26:40 PM
Post by: Tom62 on July 18, 2008, 09:26:40 PM
The conditions of evolving new life inside a sealed peanut butter jar are pretty bad, because the peanut butter is not exposed to the same conditions that took place when the planet Earth was formed, Since we also know that evolution takes thousands or even millions of years, we can only test the peanut butter theory by opening the jar on a newly formed planet and wait a couple of millions years to see what happens. I somehow doubt that our Christian friends would like to wait that long to see the results.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: jcm on July 18, 2008, 10:57:55 PM
Post by: jcm on July 18, 2008, 10:57:55 PM
Quotei'm really trying to see it from his point of view, someone explain this
to this guy living things are not made from the same stuff as the rest of the universe. life can exist in the universe, but it is not a product of the universe.
this guy does give a crap about the details of life. he wants only to believe it is soooooo complex that it has to be magic.
stuff is stuff
and
life is life
stuff is not life
and
life is not made of stuff
that is what i gather.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Chimera on July 19, 2008, 03:12:03 AM
Post by: Chimera on July 19, 2008, 03:12:03 AM
I think I just worshipped God by eating a banana split.
LOL
LOL
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Loffler on July 19, 2008, 03:47:02 AM
Post by: Loffler on July 19, 2008, 03:47:02 AM
Quote from: "Chimera"I think I just worshipped God by eating a banana split.
Have you learned nothing from this thread?!?! You're supposed to eat it with one hand like a goddamn American the way God intended! Why do you think God put it in a convenient wrapper, with color coding, shaped it for your hand, and pointed it at your face? Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Occam on July 19, 2008, 03:56:34 AM
Post by: Occam on July 19, 2008, 03:56:34 AM
I'm shocked that all of you reject the clear logic of the banana as proof of god. However, if that isn't good enough for you I shall give you an even more compelling argument. Have you ever considered the beautiful consistency of a god-wrought world that assures that each hot dog fits beautifully inside a split bun, and even leaves grooves on each side for insertion of mustard and relish? Who can dispute such an elegant proof of the existence of a supreme being?
Occam
Occam
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Chimera on July 19, 2008, 04:18:00 AM
Post by: Chimera on July 19, 2008, 04:18:00 AM
Quote from: "Loffler"Quote from: "Chimera"I think I just worshipped God by eating a banana split.
Have you learned nothing from this thread?!?! You're supposed to eat it with one hand like a goddamn American the way God intended! Why do you think God put it in a convenient wrapper, with color coding, shaped it for your hand, and pointed it at your face? Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!
I have failed my Creator. Surely He shall smite me now!
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: quizlixx on July 19, 2008, 05:07:01 AM
Post by: quizlixx on July 19, 2008, 05:07:01 AM
Quote from: "Chimera"Quote from: "Loffler"Quote from: "Chimera"I think I just worshipped God by eating a banana split.
Have you learned nothing from this thread?!?! You're supposed to eat it with one hand like a goddamn American the way God intended! Why do you think God put it in a convenient wrapper, with color coding, shaped it for your hand, and pointed it at your face? Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!
I have failed my Creator. Surely He shall smite me now!
he gonna smite you wif his banana hand.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Jane on July 19, 2008, 01:04:37 PM
Post by: Jane on July 19, 2008, 01:04:37 PM
If it were REALLY perfect for humans, wouldn't those deadly spiders that hide in them be repulsed by them instead? And wouldn't they grow closer to the ground? And in many different climates.
And...different flavors! How do I start a campaign for different flavors of banana?
And...different flavors! How do I start a campaign for different flavors of banana?
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: jcm on July 19, 2008, 01:12:46 PM
Post by: jcm on July 19, 2008, 01:12:46 PM
Quote from: "Jane"If it were REALLY perfect for humans, wouldn't those deadly spiders that hide in them be repulsed by them instead? And wouldn't they grow closer to the ground? And in many different climates.
And...different flavors! How do I start a campaign for different flavors of banana?
yeah different flavored bananas is a hell of a lot better idea than banana flavored other stuff...gross. bananas should only be banana flavored.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: Jane on July 19, 2008, 07:11:40 PM
Post by: Jane on July 19, 2008, 07:11:40 PM
That's because nothing banana-flavoured ever actually tastes like a banana. Kinda like strawberry-flavoured is an agreed-upon flavour (as in, there's consistency across the strawberry-flavoured product spectrum) but they don't actually taste like a STRAWBERRY...same thing for banana-flavoured.
Title: Re: the banana
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 20, 2008, 05:25:09 PM
Post by: afreethinker30 on July 20, 2008, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: "Jane"If it were REALLY perfect for humans, wouldn't those deadly spiders that hide in them be repulsed by them instead? And wouldn't they grow closer to the ground? And in many different climates.
And...different flavors! How do I start a campaign for different flavors of banana?
Yum a chocolate banana.They don't grow in different climates because god has only blessed some with his fruit.That sounds dirty