Happy Atheist Forum

hey all
I am making a list on traits of the human body that at first ahnd seem useless (something that an "intelligent" designer wouldnt include in a perfect design), but are explained with evolution
some examples I have are the wisdom teeth. I heard someweher that these teeth didnt cause much pain to ancient man cause they had a wider jaw, thus more space for them. Is that true?
Also, I am thinking of goose-bumples and the appendix (although im not sure what its purpose used to be).
Any mor examples, people?

The coccyx, or tail-bone;
ear muscles;
nictitating membrane of the eye;
sense of smell.

Quote from: "Smallville"sense of smell.

I don't understand why that would be a left over, care to enlighten me?

Having enough body hair to make you really self conscious about going to a nude beach but the hair is not thick enough to actually keep you dry in the rain or warm in windy/cold weather.

The craving for foods that taste sweet.  In most of the western countries where a lot of our food is heavily processed and lacking in nutrients but pumped full of sweetener, having a craving for sweet junk food isn't useful.  Liking sweet tasting things was fine when free fruits and sweeter tasting vegetables were not so heavily processed before being consumed, these types of food tend to be much more nutrient dense.

Not the best examples I'm sure, but its something.

As with the sweet tooth, we also have a craving for salt, which is why it enhances flavour - back in the day salt was hard to come by yet essential, so when the genetic change occured to make it tasty in small doses those animals did better and the gene got passed on. It's not really an evolutionary leftover, more a change of lifestyle over a very short period of time. As evolution is a random change which is then exploited by the organism, this is unlikely to be rectified other than as a random gene mutation.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"

Quote from: "Smallville"sense of smell.

I don't understand why that would be a left over, care to enlighten me?

Having enough body hair to make you really self conscious about going to a nude beach but the hair is not thick enough to actually keep you dry in the rain or warm in windy/cold weather.

The craving for foods that taste sweet.  In most of the western countries where a lot of our food is heavily processed and lacking in nutrients but pumped full of sweetener, having a craving for sweet junk food isn't useful.  Liking sweet tasting things was fine when free fruits and sweeter tasting vegetables were not so heavily processed before being consumed, these types of food tend to be much more nutrient dense.

Not the best examples I'm sure, but its something.

Just an opinion but the sense of smell is no longer vital to survival to the species as compared to the other senses. True, it enhances taste (try eating a slice of baked potato and one of an apple with a head cold and you cannot tell a difference); one can smell gas leaks; and on and on. But for survival purposes smell is obsolete. We don't need it to sense bad food, predators, pheromones for sexual urges.

i think pheromones still play a large enough part in sexual desire that we can call them useful (from an evolutionary standpoint).

Don't forget male nipples. They're among the most common trait listed as evidence of evolution.

Quote from: "Willravel"Don't forget male nipples...

Damn, my mind went right in the gutter.  

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "Willravel"Don't forget male nipples...

Damn, my mind went right in the gutter.  

Oh it gets way better. Don't get me started on the incredible similarities between male and female sexual organs. I could go on for hours.

I know it's not really a throw back, more like a developing trait but we are the only primate with webbing between our fingers, with the really big coincidence that we are the only primate that swims.

Quote from: "Smallville"nictitating membrane of the eye;
.

what was the purpose of that one?

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"

Quote from: "Smallville"sense of smell.

I don't understand why that would be a left over, care to enlighten me?

Having enough body hair to make you really self conscious about going to a nude beach but the hair is not thick enough to actually keep you dry in the rain or warm in windy/cold weather.

me, beinga  kinda slightly hairy girl I can grunt and nod in agreement to that.

Quote from: "weedoch"As with the sweet tooth, we also have a craving for salt, which is why it enhances flavour - back in the day salt was hard to come by yet essential, so when the genetic change occured to make it tasty in small doses those animals did better and the gene got passed on. It's not really an evolutionary leftover, more a change of lifestyle over a very short period of time. As evolution is a random change which is then exploited by the organism, this is unlikely to be rectified other than as a random gene mutation.

Its still good enough to go on my list

Keep posting guys. Im learning awesome things

Quote from: "Tanker"I know it's not really a throw back, more like a developing trait but we are the only primate with webbing between our fingers, with the really big coincidence that we are the only primate that swims.

really inteersting. Maybe im some point in our evolution, we lived near the beach, or something similar.

Quote from: "Willravel"Don't forget male nipples. They're among the most common trait listed as evidence of evolution.

Darn, I forgot that one. It's one of my most favorite lines David Warner uses in "Time Bandits".

Quote from: "MariaEvri"

Quote from: "Smallville"nictitating membrane of the eye;
.

what was the purpose of that one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane)

gives you a good explanation.

Quote from: "MariaEvri"

Quote from: "Tanker"I know it's not really a throw back, more like a developing trait but we are the only primate with webbing between our fingers, with the really big coincidence that we are the only primate that swims.

really inteersting. Maybe im some point in our evolution, we lived near the beach, or something similar.

The Proboscis Monkey swims. So does the Allen's Swamp Monkey. There's probably others.

There is a book published this year called Your Inner Fish (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Inner-Fish-Journey-3-5-Billion-Year/dp/0375424474).  It discusses how our human anatomy evolved from the fish, including the evolutionary relics.  It is on my "to be read eventually" list.  And the critter on the cover is Tiktaalik, my avatar.

Um, hello? The appendix?

Quote from: "Tanker"I know it's not really a throw back, more like a developing trait but we are the only primate with webbing between our fingers, with the really big coincidence that we are the only primate that swims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_theory)

Quote from: "Smallville"

Quote from: "MariaEvri"

Quote from: "Smallville"nictitating membrane of the eye;
.

what was the purpose of that one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane)

gives you a good explanation.

I knew that birds and sharks had this but I had no idea we had that too
thats really great stuff

Quote from: "crocofish"There is a book published this year called Your Inner Fish (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Inner-Fish-Journey-3-5-Billion-Year/dp/0375424474).  It discusses how our human anatomy evolved from the fish, including the evolutionary relics.  It is on my "to be read eventually" list.  And the critter on the cover is Tiktaalik, my avatar.

Thanks for the link. This will go in my "to buy" list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality)

Humanity's junk drawer

Quote from: "Loffler"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality

Humanity's junk drawer

very useful thanks

QuoteMariaEvri wrote:
Tanker wrote:
I know it's not really a throw back, more like a developing trait but we are the only primate with webbing between our fingers, with the really big coincidence that we are the only primate that swims.

really inteersting. Maybe im some point in our evolution, we lived near the beach, or something similar.

The Proboscis Monkey swims. So does the Allen's Swamp Monkey. There's probably others.

I should have been more specific and said ape, good catch though that statment was a bit misleading.I do know that  a family of chimps has been observed sitting in shallow pools (2 or 3 feet) of water to beat the heat but most apes stay away from deep water.

How about your spleen.

Quote from: "shedaytrips"How about your spleen.

hmm I thought that was still used? XD

Quote from: "MariaEvri"

Quote from: "shedaytrips"How about your spleen.

hmm I thought that was still used? XD

It is, but like many organs it's redundant. There's a lot of redundancy in our organs.

Quote from: "MariaEvri"

Quote from: "shedaytrips"How about your spleen.

hmm I thought that was still used? XD

The spleen is used for blood storage and for immune functions. You can live without it but your body's ability to fight off viral/bacterial infection would be compromised. The appendix is thought to play an immune function, as well. Kind of like Peyer's patches in the small intestine.

Quote from: "shedaytrips"How about your spleen.

The spleen makes insulin which is instrumental in removing glucose from the blood stream.  If the glucose isn't removed (and no other organ does that job), you are at risk of developing neuropathy, blindness, and other complications.  No insulin = diabetes.

So... I don't think the spleen is either a leftover or redundant.  Unless my diabetes education these past 20 years has been deficient, there is no other organ that makes insulin... if there were, I wouldn't have neuropathy in my feet (one foot is slightly numb and the other is constantly tingly).

Quote from: "rlrose328"

Quote from: "shedaytrips"How about your spleen.

The spleen makes insulin which is instrumental in removing glucose from the blood stream.  If the glucose isn't removed (and no other organ does that job), you are at risk of developing neuropathy, blindness, and other complications.  No insulin = diabetes.

So... I don't think the spleen is either a leftover or redundant.  Unless my diabetes education these past 20 years has been deficient, there is no other organ that makes insulin... if there were, I wouldn't have neuropathy in my feet (one foot is slightly numb and the other is constantly tingly).

Well that is all good to know. I really had no idea that the spleen produces insulin.

Huh.. Learn something new every day.. I thought it was the just pancreas that made insulin.

Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!"  ;)

I feel like such an idiot!  I went to bed right after I posted the insulin/spleen thing and I awoke an hour later out of a dead sleep, singing "Pancreas" (Weird Al song), and I KNEW I'd really screwed the pooch right here, in front of everyone.   :brick:

Quote from: "rlrose328"I feel like such an idiot!  I went to bed right after I posted the insulin/spleen thing and I awoke an hour later out of a dead sleep, singing "Pancreas" (Weird Al song), and I KNEW I'd really screwed the pooch right here, in front of everyone.   :brick:

Ahhhh, but you have a perfect excuse...you can blame it on low blood sugar!  

"...couldn't...think...straight........
.......need....a...COKE!"

Party on!

lol, ok pancreas. got it.

Quote from: "McQ"Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!"  ;)

My point is the body is not so perfectly designed that every organ has a solitary purpose than no other organ can do. If the human body were a company, it would need an efficiency consultant stat.

Quote from: "Loffler"

Quote from: "McQ"Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!"  ;)

My point is the body is not so perfectly designed that every organ has a solitary purpose than no other organ can do. If the human body were a company, it would need an efficiency consultant stat.

Can't argue with that, for sure. That's why, when I discuss with anti-evolutionists (rarely these days, because it's just too painful) the human body as a "designed" object, I point out that the designer should be slapped for so many obvious oversights.

I am disappointed, however, that no one caught on to the first line of my post.  

Quote from: "McQ"I also would not classify the spleen as redundant

Speaking of redundancy, did you know that a large portion of people (16% according to the article) have accessory spleens? They're small, but they're there! Check out this article from the American Journal of Roentgenology: http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/183/6/1653 (http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/183/6/1653)

Weird, huh?

Quote from: "McQ"

Quote from: "Loffler"

Quote from: "McQ"Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!"  ;)

My point is the body is not so perfectly designed that every organ has a solitary purpose than no other organ can do. If the human body were a company, it would need an efficiency consultant stat.

Can't argue with that, for sure. That's why, when I discuss with anti-evolutionists (rarely these days, because it's just too painful) the human body as a "designed" object, I point out that the designer should be slapped for so many obvious oversights.

I am disappointed, however, that no one caught on to the first line of my post.  

That's too obscure, you knucklehead!

Quote from: "Loffler"That's too obscure, you knucklehead!

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck.  

I just came across a good evolutionary leftover: "Piloerection" - or goosebumps. It's the reaction we get when we're cold or scared. In humans it creates no significant warming / intimidation effect. However in animals with lots of hair, piloerection creates an extra layer of insulation for warmth. Or it can be used to potentially scare off a predator.

But it doesn't work so well on a naked ape.  

Quote from: "myleviathan"I just came across a good evolutionary leftover: "Piloerection" - or goosebumps. It's the reaction we get when we're cold or scared. In humans it creates no significant warming / intimidation effect. However in animals with lots of hair, piloerection creates an extra layer of insulation for warmth. Or it can be used to potentially scare off a predator.

But it doesn't work so well on a naked ape.  ;) , I suppose it's true. However, for those of us with decent amounts of body hair (I don't mean Robin Williams amounts... that's just ridiculous) it does successfully complete its objective of trapping a layer of (relatively) warm air next to the skin. Although, in retrospect, I suppose your point regarding its significance is the important thing. So, this post was pointless, really.

Screw it. I'm hitting submit, anyway.  

It's all good. It's just not as useful as it was our ancestors. It plays a very minor role in heat production in humans (next to nothing when compared to simple shivering). But what about when you're scared? There it plays no useful role like it would an animal with more hair (like a bristling dog sending a warning).