What would your proposal be to build a pyramid? IOW, how would you do it- What machinery/method(s) would you use.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f076dd3b575a2aefaf3a4bf4a175d65a/tenor.gif)
i would use a motor scraper and two bulldozers to level the site and build roads, then bring in building stone on flatbed trucks, build a ramp with the bulldozers and small dump trucks around the pyramid as it was built, and stack the stones using a four-wheel mobile crane.
fill for the interior could be brought in on the dump trucks.
the spiraling ramp is the technique used in american landfills to bring material to the top of a pyramidal cell as it grows. ive been to the top of a number of them.
Quote from: billy rubin on July 05, 2020, 12:16:36 PM
i would use a motor scraper and two bulldozers to level the site and build roads, then bring in building stone on flatbed trucks, build a ramp with the bulldozers and small dump trucks around the pyramid as it was built, and stack the stones using a four-wheel mobile crane.
fill for the interior could be brought in on the dump trucks.
the spiraling ramp is the technique used in american landfills to bring material to the top of a pyramidal cell as it grows. ive been to the top of a number of them.
OK, But, what about having to build at the time the pyramids were built- using their materials, possible methods and engineering knowledge.
the hardest thing to do would be to get the stones from the bottom to the top. all you have to do to make that happen is build a ramp around the pyramid and drag things up from the bottom.
as the pyramid gets higher, the ramp becomes longer but takes less additional material to build as the pyramid has a smaller perimeter the higher you go. here's a huge landfill in israel that shows the technique.
(https://i.imgur.com/AXwLhWI.jpg)
^^^this whole complex is some 2000 acres, while th elargest pyramid at giza is some 14 acres at the base.
i don't see it as something hard to build. to me the hard part would be to construct a solid foundation to prevent the huge thing from settling. apparntly the overburden was removed and the pyramids were constructe directly on bedrock.
to build it all you need are quarries, a way to transport stone blocks, and a lot of people to pull on the ropes. i think th egyptians of that era had all that.
i dont know anything about chechen itza, though, it ould be interesting to compare the engineering of the two.
I would get the other 15 people on earth and we would sacrifice a bull, then in the morning.. poof.... a pyramid.
Quote from: No one on July 05, 2020, 09:41:58 PM
I would get the other 15 people on earth and we would sacrifice a bull, then in the morning.. poof.... a pyramid.
I don't know if one would get a pyramid out of it but the bull could be cooked for a nice barbecue. :)
You would then be smited!
Quote from: Randy on July 06, 2020, 12:00:25 AM
Quote from: No one on July 05, 2020, 09:41:58 PM
I would get the other 15 people on earth and we would sacrifice a bull, then in the morning.. poof.... a pyramid.
I don't know if one would get a pyramid out of it but the bull could be cooked for a nice barbecue. :)
True. First things first. :grin:
Quote from: No one on July 06, 2020, 02:19:15 AM
You would then be smited!
I think a good smiting is worth a good barbecue. So smiteth away!
Why would I build a pyramid? I'm never dying, it's only when I cough from smoking that I seem to be dying.
Quote from: Old Seer on July 04, 2020, 10:31:58 PMWhat would your proposal be to build a pyramid? IOW, how would you do it- What machinery/method(s) would you use.
This is how I would do it. I take it there,s a number of physicists on this site to understand the unexplained particulars. I'll let them finish the structure if they want.
The basics: We already have the pyramid half finished at this time. So, lets take a 2 ton block up to the level being worked on. Lets say the average weight of a worker is 150 lbs.It would take 27 workers to get the block to the needed level but lets use 30.
Up the side of the structure there are wood ramps going straight up the side. Ropes are going up the ramps and partially down the other side. The 30 workers are on the level being worked on. As they pull the rope down the other side the block on the ramp is pulled up the other side. When it's in place they climb back up to do it over again. The only work they're doing is climbing up the structure and then each is carrying their own weight back up the structure. They are doing no work to get the block up the side as they together outweigh block.
Of course there are other blocks of different sizes and shapes that will require more men. As the structure goes up less ramps are needed and all sides can be worked on at the same time right at the start of the project. A continuous system can be set in place so blocks can be on the way up as fast as the stone masons can make them.
Edit added: Methods and means can be reasoned so those working on the pyramid site are doing very little heavy work.
Here's a fellow that might have some answers. Looks good to me. You will have to skip ahead a bit to get past the unneeded parts.
https://youtu.be/NZMwM0nTXOo
Hmm. 3687 views. I didn't realize so many would be interested in a subject as this.
Quote from: Old Seer on February 02, 2024, 04:26:45 PMHmm. 3687 views. I didn't realize so many would be interested in a subject as this.
Thar figure includes 'crawlers' as well as members.
Quote from: Tank on July 05, 2020, 08:45:01 AM(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f076dd3b575a2aefaf3a4bf4a175d65a/tenor.gif)
[Right-wing The Asmo]Damn right! Them illegals from Egyptland, they was. :smilenod: [/RWTA]
The devise is referred to as a "djed pillar", which seems to me to be a wine press of some type rather than a force multiplier. The lower part would make a very poor bearing as perpendicular force would tend to move the pillar up out of the base. The pillar would make a better axial means if it were same as top bearing.
could be. but lots of things that we see as common sense engineering werent thought of thousands of years ago.look at chariot wheels. took thousands of years for those to develop the obvious optimal dedign we see today.
or think about the various seige engines that were cocked by wonding a rope or string around a drum. the interface was always a set of handspikes for the operator to pull on, because the crank wasnt invented until modern times.
or early versions of sprocketed drive chains consisting of simple long links articulating around a pentangular drum.
seems obvious now how to do it better, but we have an advantage
It's not a mechanical devise for sure. Other info says its a symbol of stability. Making it mechanical is quit a stretch as there's no upper/end bearing which would be needed.
old illustrations are often unhelpful
even if detailed, it wasnt the engineers doing the art.
look at a series of casual illustrations of a modern bicycle. you would be excused for concluding that modern illustrators had never seen one.
this wally guy is interesting.
:) Wow, I'm impressed, now we're getting somewhere. An average guy is equal to 1/8th HP, and at 45 degrees of angle the ramp carries 1/2 the weight of the load. That means one needs less bodies to raise the weight.
The main resources the Egyptians had was lotsa rope, wood and people. Thanks for this. :) :)
look at some more of this guys videos. he looks like a retired physicist with a technological axe to grind, and he's made a number of really interesting videos.
i am thoroughly impressed by this.
Definitely not a physicist. Uses the wrong units, and doesn't account for the weight of the three men descending the ramp on the pull side. SWAG- their total weight is more than that of the block.
Quote from: billy rubin on June 23, 2024, 12:33:53 AMlook at some more of this guys videos. he looks like a retired physicist with a technological axe to grind, and he's made a number of really interesting videos.
Archaeologists (some) are toying with the idea that there was a civilization before the Egyptians named Kemit that did the actual stone works and Egyptians inherited it, on the premise that the Egyptians didn't have the means or skills for such precision workings.
Yep.
What's more they were probably the first to perform what's now known as Kemetic yoga.
https://youaligned.com/yoga/kemetic-yoga/#:~:text=Poses%20or%20postures%20within%20the,such%20as%20squares%20or%20triangles.
The yoga triangles were a form of magic and the pyramids were built in their honour.
The pyramid pose still survives today and is just one of many.
Published recently: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yoga-Light-Energies-through-Triangles/dp/1620559447
5 stars from me also.
They also had a practice similar to Qigong. Triangles again.
ancient technology is a fascinating subject. the simple lack of preserved records is the biggest problem.
we have the results, but not an understanding of the processes.
clearlyu, the pyramids are there, but we have no witnesses.
My first job after USMC was royal granite in my home town. Off the day shit-after work I'd hang around and watch a the other operations going on. The company did it all from gravestones, monuments to specialties. The results in Egypt are comparable to that of the granite co. The only results of difference is we were faster---probably. Whoever did the works in Egypt were amazingly similar.
I'd be surprised if the pyramids and other ancient sites like stone circles were used for much other than healing.
Simply entering one might be found to have healing powers.
In the case of Stonehenge, a circle of stones arranged like magic mushrooms, perhaps.
Sample the soma, as in Buddhism.
People were desperate for cures, just like today.
For thousands of years, people believed in the curative property of water.
more on this interseting topic
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a64514781/ancient-pyramid-hydraulic-system-discovery/?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us
QuoteIn a preprint paper, scientists concluded that the Step Pyramid of Djoser in Saqqara, Egypt—believed to be the oldest of the seven monumental pyramids and potentially constructed about 4,500 years ago—offers a remarkable blueprint for hydraulic engineering.
The hydraulic-powered mechanism could have maneuvered the oversized stone blocks forming the pyramid, starting from the ground up. The research team says the Step Pyramid's internal architecture is consistent with a hydraulic elevation mechanism, something that's never been reported before at that place or in that time.
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By lifting the stones from the interior of the pyramid in what the authors call a "volcano fashion," the water pressure from the hydraulic system could have pushed the blocks into place. If proved out, this research shows the Egyptians had a powerful understanding of advanced hydraulic systems well before modern scholars believed they did. That begs the question: Was this the first major use of the system, or had it been in play previously?
I understand the theory but I would need some schematics to see a working process. Hydrolics can go from a simple to a highly complex process. A water wheel is an application of hydrolics, exactitude's aren't necessary for it to work or be efficient. On the other side I use a wood splitter, 27 ton, or 54,000 pounds of push. A small opening (leak by) in the cylinder would render the works useless.
Water at the bottom of the pyramid would be at a high pressure, and the higher the lift the less pressure is at level. At a certain height the pressure wouldn't be enough to move the block. From what I can make of it this isn't a viable idea. :)
From my insights they'll do more work setting up this system then it would take to build the pyramid by conventional means. The engineering doesn't work out. To get water to the worksite from a lake, the lake would have to be at an higher altitude than the pyramid. Then the water transfer system would (somehow) have to be higher than the pyramid by a good measure. Sea water at 100 ft. depth is 300 psi and the pyramid is 300 ft' high that's almost an insurmountable problem. The water would leak out between the blocks. The higher the pyramid gets the less the pressure at height. One might need a 900 ft. water tower, that pressure would be able to destroy the upper parts of the works.
Interesting.