I'm just curious on what you would consider a good or at least okay troll. Not that I would want to troll this forum or anything, I'm just asking this question out of pure curiosity.
Any answers?...
All trolls are annoying in my opinion, but some do seem to get a pass for their behaviour and dodge bans in some places. One major characteristic I've observed is they are liked in general. If you aren't liked or part of the community then your trollish antics won't be tolerated.
Now I am curious. Why are you curious about what makes a good troll? Looking to troll some place?
Quote from: Breatharian on March 04, 2018, 03:57:46 PM
I'm just curious on what you would consider a good or at least okay troll. Not that I would want to troll this forum or anything, I'm just asking this question out of pure curiosity.
Any answers?...
Trolling by definition is an attempt to disrupt; to elicit aggravation and negative reactions for their own sake. Given this, while a few sites appear to thrive on flame wars, most do not condone trolling. Promoting an ideology that elicits aggravation and negative reactions in people of normal good will is for all practical purposes trolling, despite the fact that it's possible such promotion was not done merely to antagonize.
Those who desire to promote views that are guaranteed to elicit aggravation and negative reactions should look for sites that are willing (however uncharitably) to accommodate trolls and those who promote vile ideologies. If you've read the rules of this site as you say you have, you know that it isn't a place like that.
The staff of this site (ideally once consensus has been reached in regard to whether a member's behavior meets the definition of trolling) will take action to eliminate that trolling.
Being a "good" troll would mean that you answer questions when they are asked, honestly and without a nasty attitude, trying to stir shit up.
Quote from: Dragonia on March 04, 2018, 05:10:17 PM
Being a "good" troll would mean that you answer questions when they are asked, honestly and without a nasty attitude, trying to stir shit up.
If somebody honestly holds despicable views, do you think that this site should serve as a platform for them to promote those views?
Quote from: Recusant on March 04, 2018, 05:29:06 PM
Quote from: Dragonia on March 04, 2018, 05:10:17 PM
Being a "good" troll would mean that you answer questions when they are asked, honestly and without a nasty attitude, trying to stir shit up.
If somebody honestly holds despicable views, do you think that this site should serve as a platform for them to promote those views?
There is a fine line, in this context, between "promoting", "being an apologist for", "excusing", "rationalising" . . . and having a reasoned discussion as to why there are two sides to such a discussion.
We are not bound by rules as in, say, a university debation chamber. We can still ask very pointed and probing questions without being aggressive or overly offensive. Of course, is one 9f the parties refuses to engage in the debate they lose by default. If they attempt to derail the debate, especially by proselytizing then they should be ejected from that debate. And ejected altogether if they refuse to respond to or discuss reasonable points.
OK, let's take it one step further. Should this site serve as a platform for somebody to express despicable views in the most reasonable manner possible?
Quote from: Recusant on March 04, 2018, 05:42:01 PM
OK, let's take it one step further. Should this site serve as a platform for somebody to express despicable views in the most reasonable manner possible?
Not if they are proponents of those views.
Quote from: Recusant on March 04, 2018, 05:42:01 PM
OK, let's take it one step further. Should this site serve as a platform for somebody to express despicable views in the most reasonable manner possible?
I would be interested in why such people feel drawn to adopting "despicable views". Such debate should not need promoting those views, only allowing others to understand. Can the beleif that the "white races" are superior to all others be rationalised in any scientific or logical way, in a way that does not include invective, circular logic, theories to merely support a belief already held, subjective opinion, slander etc?
Difficult one though I have to agree!
But like claiming the existance of "God" because "God" says he exists. Do white supremists believe they are the pinnacke of human evolution because thry believe they are the pinnacle of human evolution and, therefore, cannot be in eoor?
Quote from: Dave on March 04, 2018, 05:56:58 PM
Difficult one though I have to agree!
I don't think it's all that difficult. If one wants to talk to Nazis and/or those who for whatever reason don't want to call themselves Nazis but still believe in and support ideas that align with Nazism, there are places to do that. I don't think this is one of those places.
For those who aren't aware of such places, they can PM me, and I can direct them to at least one of the most well known sites.
A good troll needs a bridge and a lobotomy. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stardock.net%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Fthemes%2Fdigicons%2FThumbs%2520Up.png&hash=e8ea77880ad2978fd09f5791a5436d85008666d2)
To be a bit of a devil's advocate, nobody has said one word yet about their despicable views. Breatharian stated his ideology in 2 words. Maybe he's just waiting to be asked, so I have fallen into his trap. But I am genuinely curious, as I've never met a Nazi, that I know of. And while I abhor his ideas, I am curious as to the absurdity of it all.
I do see how these discussions can be so deeply hurtful and vexing for some, and I don't want that. And I'm already noticing that every single comment by Breatharian will be judged through a certain lens by myself, and probably everyone else here.
I'll just put this out there though: and not that i think we are magic or anything, but; I feel like a very effective way to show someone the absurdity of their ideas or beliefs is to ask a lot of questions. Not saying that we would ever talk sense into a person, because I'm sure that's very rare on forums like this, I guess I have rose colored glasses. I like them.
I've encountered Breatharian previously and my statements, while generalized, were informed by those encounters.
Quote from: Dragonia on March 04, 2018, 09:09:16 PM
To be a bit of a devil's advocate, nobody has said one word yet about their despicable views. Breatharian stated his ideology in 2 words. Maybe he's just waiting to be asked, so I have fallen into his trap. But I am genuinely curious, as I've never met a Nazi, that I know of. And while I abhor his ideas, I am curious as to the absurdity of it all.
I do see how these discussions can be so deeply hurtful and vexing for some, and I don't want that. And I'm already noticing that every single comment by Breatharian will be judged through a certain lens by myself, and probably everyone else here.
I'll just put this out there though: and not that i think we are magic or anything, but; I feel like a very effective way to show someone the absurdity of their ideas or beliefs is to ask a lot of questions. Not saying that we would ever talk sense into a person, because I'm sure that's very rare on forums like this, I guess I have rose colored glasses. I like them.
You are approaching the subject as I attempted and finding similar hurdles, Dragonia!
Yes, I was like to try to understand just what makes this an attractive philosophy to some and if it is based on any kind of valid logic at all.
Quote from: Recusant on March 04, 2018, 09:20:11 PM
I've encountered Breatharian previously and my statements, while generalized, were informed by those encounters.
If you know one you pretty much know them all. Nazis tend to be more...
homogeneous than other radical political persuasions. At least in my experience though, admittedly, I tended to be on the other end of the ideological spectrum.
Quote from: Recusant on March 04, 2018, 09:20:11 PM
I've encountered Breatharian previously and my statements, while generalized, were informed by those encounters.
Ah.
Due to a blatant racist comment on another thread Breatharian is no longer a member of HAF.
Aren't neo-nazis and their ilk people who've been fed these ideas from a young age to the point of brainwashing which is the experience of many, (but not all), Christians? Arguing against faith, or what we see as blind belief, with reason, is generally pointless because, as mentioned below, they rely on all sort of spurious arguments. Agreed, this is definitely not the forum for them and their demands and I wouldn't want to join any forums sympathetic to their cause either but I think it's vital to know what beliefs are out there especially as the right seems to be on the rise in several places in the world. I think anyone who makes a point of keeping up with national and world news has a good knowledge and can be well informed about the extreme right and their beliefs and demands.
A good troll is a silent troll. :grin:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 07, 2018, 05:36:11 PM
A good troll is a silent troll. :grin:
I missed this when it was started, but yes, a good troll keeps to itself.
Trolling only causes harm, there is no good that comes from it that can't come from more efficient means (and let's be clear, the good that comes from trolling is not much at all, but I feel compelled by honesty and clarity to acknowledge it). Harm is inherent in the goal of trolling, there is no way around that. Dishonesty is also inherent in the goal of trolling, and that is not a good thing.
Trolls are useless wastes of everyone's time.