Happy Atheist Forum

I was wondering if many atheists get converted. It seems that quite a few religious people seem to be able to shed their religiousness for atheism and i was wondering if the reverse happens often as well. Any of you heard of this happening?

In my experience, atheists convert only as a result of emotional traumas and the like. Although those I know of only managed to convert to agnostic theists.

I think it's pretty un-common for people of reason to forsake it.

It's a lot more rare than people think because more often than not the stories you hear are fabrications. I had a woman in my office tell this big story about how she converted an atheist to Christianity and it was a complete lie, and it's hardly the first time I've heard it.

If anyone ever gives you a story like that, ask for verification as it's usually an attempt to further lie to him or herself. You see if atheists were to convert as often as Christians left the faith, they could excuse it as equal. That's not the case. Most that leave religion don't go back.

I've read a few Christian books by authors that say they used to be atheists or agnostics. Lee Strobel (The Case For Christ), Josh McDowell (More Than A Carpenter, Evidence That Demands A Verdict)... there are more but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

I agree with Will. At my church, people would give "I used to be an atheist" testimonies left and right. It just sounds good. It gives Christianity more credit esp in the eyes of it's members. "We saved this atheist heathen and you can be saved to." It also helps that idea to Christians that their faith is the "true" one.

What reality is Christianity going to give us?  Converting from Christian to Atheist seems like a case for an awakening of logic and rationality, while the opposite would be like suddenly believing in Santa Clause again (sorry to those of you that hadn't heard yet).  Except in the above mentioned cases of emotional trauma, I don't think there is any truth to the stories either.

Quote from: "EvolutionCalling"What reality is Christianity going to give us?  Converting from Christian to Atheist seems like a case for an awakening of logic and rationality, while the opposite would be like suddenly believing in Santa Clause again (sorry to those of you that hadn't heard yet).  Except in the above mentioned cases of emotional trauma, I don't think there is any truth to the stories either.

I see what you're saying and lots of the stories are total BS, but then at the same time, a lot of the people actually think they used to be atheists. You think differently as a Christian. When someone who just simply wasn't religious converts (which happens a lot), their non-Christian life seems cold and horrible and they can't believe they ever survived without God. Sometimes, they get it into their heads that they didn't believe in God at all before. Thus, "I used to be an atheist before I was a Christian."

A well publicized case of an atheist converting to Christianity is William Murray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murray), son of Madalyn Murray O'Hair.  Of course, Madalyn was definitely an atheist, but maybe William was just following what the family believed until he got drawn into the Christian church.

No real atheist converts to Christian. It’s as saying that once you looked into an empty box â€"once you opened it, that is- you close it and claim that its full of candies, again.

Nevertheless you have to consider that certain people claim to be atheist, being -in reality- just angry people with his failed Santa Claus style god. They do it as a kind of punishment, resentment and disappointment towards that purportedly higher power. Usually that kind of people just wants to reconcile and they go back to religion, whether its again a form of their old one or another lie under different clothes â€"oriental religions for instance-.

Another thing that can happen is people that claims to be atheist but they  never really pondered deeply on the subject, as people who was raised without any foundation on religion nor in any logical thought. Thus, this people are fertile soil to instill emotional magic tricks religions have and they never experienced, and therefore are elated.
 
Atheisms is realizing about a certain reality. No matter how many errors and/or illogical facts you find out in a sacred book -or religions in general- per se. If you don’t realize that gods are human products, you will keep them wherever you feel they are safe.

Quote from: "Lexxvs"No real atheist converts to Christian. It’s as saying that once you looked into an empty box â€"once you opened it, that is- you close it and claim that its full of candies, again.

Nevertheless you have to consider that certain people claim to be atheist, being -in reality- just angry people with his failed Santa Claus style god. They do it as a kind of punishment, resentment and disappointment towards that purportedly higher power. Usually that kind of people just wants to reconcile and they go back to religion, whether its again a form of their old one or another lie under different clothes â€"oriental religions for instance-.

Another thing that can happen is people that claims to be atheist but they  never really pondered deeply on the subject, as people who was raised without any foundation on religion nor in any logical thought. Thus, this people are fertile soil to instill emotional magic tricks religions have and they never experienced, and therefore are elated.
 
Atheisms is realizing about a certain reality. No matter how many errors and/or illogical facts you find out in a sacred book -or religions in general- per se. If you don’t realize that gods are human products, you will keep them wherever you feel they are safe.

Very well said.  

Basically, just because you didn't "know God" before becoming a Christian doesn't make you an Atheist.  Not knowing (in a Christians sense of the word) and not believing are completely different animals.

Quote from: "Lexxvs"No real atheist converts to Christian. It’s as saying that once you looked into an empty box â€"once you opened it, that is- you close it and claim that its full of candies, again.

I have to disagree. In fact, your first sentence is simply a reversal of the typical christian pap that is so often repeated by them. I have heard countless times from christians that when so and so became an atheist that, "Oh well then he was never a real christian in the first place. No real christian ever becomes an atheist."

I know of at least two people personally who were atheists. One was more of a strong agnostic....but anyway, both are now bible thumping maniacs. Let me tell you, they were "real atheists", by anyone's definition.

Quote from: "McQ"

Quote from: "Lexxvs"No real atheist converts to Christian. It’s as saying that once you looked into an empty box â€"once you opened it, that is- you close it and claim that its full of candies, again.

I have to disagree. In fact, your first sentence is simply a reversal of the typical christian pap that is so often repeated by them. I have heard countless times from christians that when so and so became an atheist that, "Oh well then he was never a real christian in the first place. No real christian ever becomes an atheist."

I know of at least two people personally who were atheists. One was more of a strong agnostic....but anyway, both are now bible thumping maniacs. Let me tell you, they were "real atheists", by anyone's definition.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I used to be a Christian, and I was a Christian. I believed in Jesus with all my heart. Now I don't. I haven't been told I wasn't a "true Christian", but I'm sure it'll come sometime here. I think the reverse could be true as well.

As the theme here was on regards of atheist becoming Christians, I did not elaborate properly â€"I suspect- what a real atheist is for me â€"and others by the way-.
To be an atheist has nothing to do with the strike of a strong emotion, like belief nested on faith. So the reversal is not possible. That is, a real atheist do no base his vision of reality on emotions that tamper with his heart, or at least that is not the intended case, not is the proposed premise, neither the syllogism.
Perhaps I could call a real atheist "an skeptic and well formed and prepared one". Then my definition can be applied without contend.
Unless the person has some mind problems, you would not claim â€"given the afore mentioned circumstances- that  once you realize that gods are human manufactures and kinky elaborations under their caprices you could turn again to “believe” in one. Obviously, a person can watch into an empty box, close it, and still say “this box has metaphysical load”, therefore his convincement was never situated on the physical world and that person was never an atheist.

I would like to make also the difference between knowing and usufructing a feeling. To resume and set an example easy to convey: you can know your girl does not love you anymore. But you choose to believe â€"cause you need it or whatever- that she still can get back to you, and that she is confused, etcetera. So, you know a truth but for the sake of convenience and immatureness you choose to “make believe” that things are different. In the same way, you could choose a religion to soothe your impeding needs for some soft and caring support, even if your suspicion that the gods are just fake are disguised backwards. So we can also say that knowing is not always enough, because knowledge implies matureness to handle it.  

I have to concede that human nature is not at all measurable under any undeniable rule, thus my assertions only could apply as a general norm, and not a tested law of physics.

Quote from: "Lexxvs"As the theme here was on regards of atheist becoming Christians, I did not elaborate properly â€"I suspect- what a real atheist is for me â€"and others by the way-.
To be an atheist has nothing to do with the strike of a strong emotion, like belief nested on faith. So the reversal is not possible. That is, a real atheist do no base his vision of reality on emotions that tamper with his heart, or at least that is not the intended case, not is the proposed premise, neither the syllogism.
Perhaps I could call a real atheist "an skeptic and well formed and prepared one". Then my definition can be applied without contend.
Unless the person has some mind problems, you would not claim â€"given the afore mentioned circumstances- that  once you realize that gods are human manufactures and kinky elaborations under their caprices you could turn again to “believe” in one. Obviously, a person can watch into an empty box, close it, and still say “this box has metaphysical load”, therefore his convincement was never situated on the physical world and that person was never an atheist.

I would like to make also the difference between knowing and usufructing a feeling. To resume and set an example easy to convey: you can know your girl does not love you anymore. But you choose to believe â€"cause you need it or whatever- that she still can get back to you, and that she is confused, etcetera. So, you know a truth but for the sake of convenience and immatureness you choose to “make believe” that things are different. In the same way, you could choose a religion to soothe your impeding needs for some soft and caring support, even if your suspicion that the gods are just fake are disguised backwards. So we can also say that knowing is not always enough, because knowledge implies matureness to handle it.  

I have to concede that human nature is not at all measurable under any undeniable rule, thus my assertions only could apply as a general norm, and not a tested law of physics.

Quote from: "EvolutionCalling":unsure:

I'll let you know.  I am rereading it trying to get a better grasp.

I understand what you mean more clearly Lexxvs, thanks for elaborating!

Ok, I think I have it.  

You're saying that just because a person said they're an Atheist, but didn't truly believe it, they weren't really an Atheist.  So when they "convert" to Christianity, they really aren't converting from Atheism and were not by definition an Atheist, yeah?

Quote from: "Lexxvs"As the theme here was on regards of atheist becoming Christians, I did not elaborate properly â€"I suspect- what a real atheist is for me â€"and others by the way-.
To be an atheist has nothing to do with the strike of a strong emotion, like belief nested on faith. So the reversal is not possible. That is, a real atheist do no base his vision of reality on emotions that tamper with his heart, or at least that is not the intended case, not is the proposed premise, neither the syllogism.
Perhaps I could call a real atheist "an skeptic and well formed and prepared one". Then my definition can be applied without contend.
Unless the person has some mind problems, you would not claim â€"given the afore mentioned circumstances- that  once you realize that gods are human manufactures and kinky elaborations under their caprices you could turn again to “believe” in one. Obviously, a person can watch into an empty box, close it, and still say “this box has metaphysical load”, therefore his convincement was never situated on the physical world and that person was never an atheist.

I would like to make also the difference between knowing and usufructing a feeling. To resume and set an example easy to convey: you can know your girl does not love you anymore. But you choose to believe â€"cause you need it or whatever- that she still can get back to you, and that she is confused, etcetera. So, you know a truth but for the sake of convenience and immatureness you choose to “make believe” that things are different. In the same way, you could choose a religion to soothe your impeding needs for some soft and caring support, even if your suspicion that the gods are just fake are disguised backwards. So we can also say that knowing is not always enough, because knowledge implies matureness to handle it.  

I have to concede that human nature is not at all measurable under any undeniable rule, thus my assertions only could apply as a general norm, and not a tested law of physics.

Well, I think I understand what you're saying, and I still think you're incorrect in your final assessment. Despite the addition of new clarifications and disclaimers, it is still something I've seen happen to the contrary. One of the clarifications you wrote was:

 Unless the person has some mind problems, you would not claim â€"given the afore mentioned circumstances- that  once you realize that gods are human manufactures and kinky elaborations under their caprices you could turn again to “believe” in one.  

The addition of this is nothing more than rationalizing your initial stance of the person not being a "real" atheist in the first place. In fact, it is merely an attempt to stamp a label of mental illness on the purported atheist>>>christian. I simply don't understand you reluctance to acknowledge the fact that people can radically change their beliefs, opinions, and worldviews (even those who are not mentally deficient). It has happened. It will continue to happen.

Now, to where I agree with you.... ;)

Quote from: "EvolutionCalling"Ok, I think I have it.  

You're saying that just because a person said they're an Atheist, but didn't truly believe it, they weren't really an Atheist.  So when they "convert" to Christianity, they really aren't converting from Atheism and were not by definition an Atheist, yeah?

Atheism  is not a question of belief. It’s the whole point. I do not believe I am atheist, I know â€"based of my trust on the physical world provided by my senses- that any god is into peoples minds. There is no faith involved in that conclusion.

To get back to my example about the candy box: you have two persons that claims that they know that there is nothing into the box. One have searched into the box and concluded: its empty. The other shook the closed box and said: I believe its empty because no sound comes out of it.
The first one not only saw nothing into the box, he concludes that any candy is just into the peoples desires. The second one says: there is no sound, thus I believe there is no candy.
But then here it comes a preacher and talks about the delicious taste of chocolate covered candies that are into the box. The two purported atheist says: prove it.  The preacher says: “wouldn’t be nice to have candies into the box? You can not hear any sound cause they are so tightly packed into the box that they keep silent.” The first atheist knows that this is a lie. The second one â€"the one that never went deep- says: “Oh, that makes sense, I want those candies! I use to believe in atheism, now I believe in sweet, chocolate covered candies tightly packed into the box.”
The box is not that easy to open, that requires what I called skeptic knowledge provided by a good preparation. If you are not prepared, you will only shake the box. And someone could lead you to believe that something was into there, just for you to be pleased.

Obviously religious people will say: “Don’t open the box, just look at the wrap and the cover. You can read candy, you can tell is candy, you can smell it’s candy. Aren’t those marvelous things? Well, so they are cause there it’s candy inside. Just study the frame and someday, when you die, it will open wide and you will see that very true candy. Bad people will starve. You’ll have candy. But remember, if you try to open the candy box before time you will be punished, cause the box is not for you to unlock. You will be provided if you are deserved.”

You can trust your senses and in that case give way to evidence tested by science methods that tell you that what’s there in the physical world â€"the universe- shows no metaphysical holy ghosts anywhere. Or you trust your feelings, and feelings do not depend on any proven evidence. Feelings pave their own ways, if their ways just coincide with the atheistic view, that don’t make them knowledge. They can turn to other ways, thus claiming: “I was on the atheistic path, now I believe”. Subsequently, it was never a question of feeling what really makes you an atheist. It was a question of realizing about a truth without concession to emotions.

So you hate religions, ok, you claim you are atheist, may be. So you like to be free to do everything what  religions claim to be wrong, and atheism suit you, ok, may be. So your daddy and mummy never taught you about anything religious related, therefore you think you have no gods, ok, may be. And so on. But real atheism stems from realizing about a sound reality. As I said before: you touched the interior of the empty box. And you know that real candy is no there. And perhaps  â€"also- you are not a child anymore.

Quote from: "McQ"The addition of this is nothing more than rationalizing your initial stance of the person not being a "real" atheist in the first place. In fact, it is merely an attempt to stamp a label of mental illness on the purported atheist>>>christian. I simply don't understand you reluctance to acknowledge the fact that people can radically change their beliefs, opinions, and worldviews (even those who are not mentally deficient). It has happened. It will continue to happen.

The only label was made by you and your comment based on the misinterpretation of what I stated.
So you say that a person â€"just like that- can see the sun rising up on the sky and for a “complete change in his mind” later he can claim that there is no sun in the sky, based on a newly found religion. Ok, that may be the case â€"did you read my final statement? I think not  and I would never consider that a normal process on thinking. Au contraire, I think it’s under not at all common circumstances that a person â€"being an atheist under my afore explained definition- can change to Christian. I called it mental problem. That problem could be deemed related to his grasp for reality. You called “mental illness”, so assume your own words and labels.

I’m gonna give you an example: I consider myself a sound atheist according to â€"again- my definition that is by no means “the” obliged definition. I, under normal circumstances -that do not interfere with my normal reason-, would always apply to that.
Would I be the same if all of my family and my friends die suddenly under unexpected situations?  I doubt it. Would I turn to some mystical state of mind? I can not rule it out. Will I be a sick person? It depends. My mind would no be right, it will have problems â€"do you get what I say?- I will have emotional needs that can transport me to ungrounded worlds as a form of protection, for instance. Obviously there is also the possibility that I can cope, whether sooner or later, but that decision is one I would lie if I do it under my current safe state.
Another example: I know I don’t fear death. But I know what physical pain can do. I would not withdraw to anything magical thought voluntarily at a certain scale of pain. But â€"trust me- pain can surpass everything you can guess, with a power that disables you. In that state of mind will I be exempt of mental problems? Wouldn’t my mind just make me stick to anything rational or irrational to relieve that indescribable pain? I suppose I wouldn’t fall, but â€"again- I would not be myself. So my promises could be just stupid bluffings. I also know atheist that could cope.
As an "after" consequence, I could get transformed for life, a scar in my mind that will stay for ever. Or may be I can stand on my right state of mind again and say: I see no gods, no magics, out there.

I am not blaming anyone for "heresy" here. I was educated in a very conservative catholic family and I know what religious feelings are and what they can provide. I understand if people look for that balsam for relief. And why. Does it make it more true? No. Does it make it a common option for an experienced atheist? No.  

That’s why â€"if you read me- I wrote the premise “to have some mental problem” to make such a radical change to happen. I consider a problem whatever causes a mind to loose contact with reality. Don’t you agree? But I never called an illness. That was your word. Your label.  

A pleasure to read you.  

Quote from: "Lexxvs"Atheism  is not a question of belief. It’s the whole point. I do not believe I am atheist, I know â€"based of my trust on the physical world provided by my senses- that any god is into peoples minds. There is no faith involved in that conclusion.

QuoteSo you hate religions, ok, you claim you are atheist, may be. So you like to be free to do everything what  religions claim to be wrong, and atheism suit you, ok, may be. So your daddy and mummy never taught you about anything religious related, therefore you think you have no gods, ok, may be. And so on. But real atheism stems from realizing about a sound reality. As I said before: you touched the interior of the empty box. And you know that real candy is no there. And perhaps  â€"also- you are not a child anymore. :idea:

Quote from: "karadan"I was wondering if many atheists get converted. It seems that quite a few religious people seem to be able to shed their religiousness for atheism and i was wondering if the reverse happens often as well. Any of you heard of this happening?

When my mom passed away I tried to force myself to believe in Heaven.I have been atheist since I was 12.Mom passed when I was 23.But didn't stick I guess.Fact ruled out over fiction.But I can see where some would convert.Loss is very hard and believing that we go to heaven and live on is very tempting.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"When my mom passed away I tried to force myself to believe in Heaven.I have been atheist since I was 12.Mom passed when I was 23.But didn't stick I guess.Fact ruled out over fiction.But I can see where some would convert.Loss is very hard and believing that we go to heaven and live on is very tempting.

*Nods* Yup. Never underestimate the power of emotional traumas. However, I have yet to see an atheist who "converted" without bouncing back or became a hardcore religious worshipper. Come to think of it, ALL the cases known to me bounced back to atheism, and deeper so than they were before.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "afreethinker30"When my mom passed away I tried to force myself to believe in Heaven.I have been atheist since I was 12.Mom passed when I was 23.But didn't stick I guess.Fact ruled out over fiction.But I can see where some would convert.Loss is very hard and believing that we go to heaven and live on is very tempting.

*Nods* Yup. Never underestimate the power of emotional traumas. However, I have yet to see an atheist who "converted" without bouncing back or became a hardcore religious worshipper. Come to think of it, ALL the cases known to me bounced back to atheism, and deeper so than they were before.

It's like the choice between the red pill or the blue pill.Once you are fully awake then you can't go back.Well unless they drug you again.

Why would you convert into Christianity because someone you loved suddenly died? That seems to me like worshiping the poison that killed your mother. (Assuming you like your mother of course). I could maybe see it if you had a traumatic event, or a near death experience, and you had a "vision" of god or someone telling you that they will save you, but this is caused by the brainwashing set in place by parents and churches.

Quote from: "cookie"Why would you convert into Christianity because someone you loved suddenly died? That seems to me like worshiping the poison that killed your mother. (Assuming you like your mother of course).

There are people like me out there, who were de-facto atheists from a very young age. And some remain de-facto atheists for a long, long time. they either refuse to or just don't think about the divine and the like. Then, someone close to them dies and they start contemplating their mortality, maybe influenced by some charismatic fundies, and find the prettiest-looking answers in the God-Camp.

That's one plausible scenario. although I know only one such person and she is now a strong atheist. No more de-factos for her...

(Note: by de-facto atheist I mean that these people do not define themselves as atheist - or theist for that matter - they simply don't care. But given the fact that they lack a god-belief, they are, in reality, atheists.)

Quote from: "cookie"Why would you convert into Christianity because someone you loved suddenly died? That seems to me like worshiping the poison that killed your mother. (Assuming you like your mother of course). I could maybe see it if you had a traumatic event, or a near death experience, and you had a "vision" of god or someone telling you that they will save you, but this is caused by the brainwashing set in place by parents and churches.

Because the thought of no after life sucks.That we die and it's all over.My mother didn't die suddenly she lived thru chemo,radiation and surgery.Then when her body started to phase out I watched her lay in pain for 6 days before she died.It's easy to say that ,you can't understand but try being in a postion where you watch someone you love suffer for 9 months.You try dealing with all of that and the loss of someone who loved you and you loved.Try explaining it to your children,and dealing with suddenly knowing you will never see that person again.It's easy to say what you think you would do,but it's different when it happens to you.The thought of heaven can be very sootheing,that we will live on in a better life.

I'm very sorry about your mother then. I don't really understand much about other people. With me, the most traumatic event in my life was what convinced me that there was no god. My parents got divorced while I was away at camp. They told me the day I got back, which was two days before my birthday. The telephone people gave us the wrong number, I had no email address, and didn't have the street address, so I lost contact with everyone I knew. Great reward for trying to be nice and getting good grades and everything, right? Anyways, most of the church didn't make sense to me, and I was already having trouble with a god that loved everyone, but damned half the world to burn in hell for eternity.

It's my main problem with the whole thing... I don't understand how someone who claims himself Christian, and thus tolerant, loving, kind, can support a God that would kill people just because they don't have the same faith. It's just so paradoxical and sick, I just don't understand how people can buy it.

But again, most people got brainwashed by their parents. And I can totally see how a weaker person could get convinced to turn to Christianity - I know someone who did after 9/11... I guess she freaked and needed something to believe in, and all her friends welcomed her in their church (I don't know how atheist she was before though). But I think it just depends on how you were raised. If you were raised by atheists and learned from the start that there is no God, I don't think you'll switch. If your parents didn't really insist on how silly it is to believe in God, well, it would be easier to turn to believing.

Right now I'm just worried for my kids, that they'll be excluded because I'll make sure to tell them not to believe people who talk to them about God... but I can see how it could be difficult to believe your parents when everyone is telling you that they are wrong. I need to find an atheist place to move to.

It's a really messed up world we live in.

Quote from: "cookie"I'm very sorry about your mother then. I don't really understand much about other people. With me, the most traumatic event in my life was what convinced me that there was no god. My parents got divorced while I was away at camp. They told me the day I got back, which was two days before my birthday. The telephone people gave us the wrong number, I had no email address, and didn't have the street address, so I lost contact with everyone I knew. Great reward for trying to be nice and getting good grades and everything, right? Anyways, most of the church didn't make sense to me, and I was already having trouble with a god that loved everyone, but damned half the world to burn in hell for eternity.

I couldn't image that must have been a very hard time for you.I know what it's like losing most of your friends.I married young well 19 we are still together and happy.I'm 30 now.But alot of my friends couldn't take the fact that I couldn't just leave whenever I wanted.It was worse when I had my first born,but I stopped talking to those who weren't the best influence for my son.I had issues with god loving everyone to.Our preacher would tell us that then in the same breath say if you weren't christian you would go to hell.Sorry if i seemed touchy it was the hardest thing I've ever been thru.We were very close.And she was the coolest mom ever.She was christian but not the crazy type.She always said god loved everyone no matter what,and it didn't matter if you believed in him or not you would go to heaven.

Tangentially related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_ ... -Religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest_growing_religion#Non-Religious)

Quote from: "Loffler"Tangentially related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_ ... -Religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest_growing_religion#Non-Religious)

I don't see how religious groups can give an accurate number count for members anyway.I'm sure there are alot of atheist/non believers that are afraid to admit they don't believe.And seeing how in some other countries you can be put to death for your beliefs I would think alot would be afraid to speak up.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"

Quote from: "Loffler"Tangentially related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_ ... -Religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest_growing_religion#Non-Religious)

I don't see how religious groups can give an accurate number count for members anyway.I'm sure there are alot of atheist/non believers that are afraid to admit they don't believe.And seeing how in some other countries you can be put to death for your beliefs I would think alot would be afraid to speak up.

It's also like the membership of any church. For example, my parents (8o-ish and climbing) are part of a small country church - membership 225 - 230. Sunday attendance - maybe 50 on a good Sunday. 175 and up for Easter and Christmas of course. Pop's a former deacon so I know I got his figures right.

They had me down as a 'member' for years after my deconversion, hoping it would 'cover' me just in case, although I was 20 odd years from last attending a service (a funeral) and living over a hundred miles away.

Their sanctuary burned down last year (it was over 175 years old) and I have made contributions to its rebuilding fund in honor of my folks. Hopefully, I won't be re-enlisted among the members.

QuoteTheir sanctuary burned down last year (it was over 175 years old) and I have made contributions to its rebuilding fund in honor of my folks. Hopefully, I won't be re-enlisted among the members

Wow alot of history in that building.Thats a sweet thing to do.Even though I don't agree with teachings of the church I still hate to see this stuff happen.Around here there are alot of beautiful old goth/roman churches here.Some truly beautiful details in those building.

This thread makes me miss the tiny church in my dad's hometown my siblings and I attended as children. The old people, the sound of old people, the smell of old people, the old hymnals and bibles.

I guess I could throw my 2 cents in here.

Many of you may not believe me or doubt what I say but I would call myself a true atheist. From birth to today, I have never once believed and I do not see that changing. As a child I remember being forced to go to church by my mom and grandmother. I say forced because I did not want to be there. I didn't know why I was that way then but now that I'm older and know the truth (as it is to me), I was truly born an atheist. As for people trying to convert me, many have tried and they have all failed. There is no shaking my foundation as an atheist.

Here's one:
http://hittingbedrock.blogspot.com/sear ... conversion (http://hittingbedrock.blogspot.com/search/label/conversion)

Quote from: "afreethinker30"

Quote from: "cookie"Why would you convert into Christianity because someone you loved suddenly died? That seems to me like worshiping the poison that killed your mother. (Assuming you like your mother of course). I could maybe see it if you had a traumatic event, or a near death experience, and you had a "vision" of god or someone telling you that they will save you, but this is caused by the brainwashing set in place by parents and churches.

Because the thought of no after life sucks.That we die and it's all over.My mother didn't die suddenly she lived thru chemo,radiation and surgery.Then when her body started to phase out I watched her lay in pain for 6 days before she died.It's easy to say that ,you can't understand but try being in a postion where you watch someone you love suffer for 9 months.You try dealing with all of that and the loss of someone who loved you and you loved.Try explaining it to your children,and dealing with suddenly knowing you will never see that person again.It's easy to say what you think you would do,but it's different when it happens to you.The thought of heaven can be very sootheing,that we will live on in a better life.

I'm sorry for you loss.

I have a quick story.
When my Grandfather was dying of lung cancer a religious friend told me he would say a prayer for him. I replied "thanks" Looking back, I realize I should of told him... no one's listening.
A few months later we got into an argument and he said I thought I believed I because I accepted his prayer. He truly thought he converted me!

Quote from: "Msblue"I'm sorry for you loss.

I have a quick story.
When my Grandfather was dying of lung cancer a religious friend told me he would say a prayer for him. I replied "thanks" Looking back, I realize I should of told him... no one's listening.
A few months later we got into an argument and he said I thought I believed I because I accepted his prayer. He truly thought he converted me!

He thought this because Christians are told every Sunday that that's how it happens: that people just go around accepting Christ into their hearts. They're taught that preaching the good word works on people, and that atheists routinely shut off their mental faculties and start believing stories that make them feel good.

Quote from: "Willravel"It's a lot more rare than people think because more often than not the stories you hear are fabrications. I had a woman in my office tell this big story about how she converted an atheist to Christianity and it was a complete lie, and it's hardly the first time I've heard it.

If anyone ever gives you a story like that, ask for verification as it's usually an attempt to further lie to him or herself. You see if atheists were to convert as often as Christians left the faith, they could excuse it as equal. That's not the case. Most that leave religion don't go back.

Kind of like what Dawkins says. people say "I used to be an atheist so/but.." to kind of give them credentials so they "know where we're coming from.

Quote from: "nikkixsugar"

Quote from: "Willravel"It's a lot more rare than people think because more often than not the stories you hear are fabrications. I had a woman in my office tell this big story about how she converted an atheist to Christianity and it was a complete lie, and it's hardly the first time I've heard it.

If anyone ever gives you a story like that, ask for verification as it's usually an attempt to further lie to him or herself. You see if atheists were to convert as often as Christians left the faith, they could excuse it as equal. That's not the case. Most that leave religion don't go back.

Kind of like what Dawkins says. people say "I used to be an atheist so/but.." to kind of give them credentials so they "know where we're coming from.

Well I do that too, in the opposite direction, but typically in response to Christians saying we can't comment on the Bible from an educated perspective.