Happy Atheist Forum

I've just joined up with this site and am frankly amazed by how hard it seems to be atheist or anything other than Christian in the States. Is this a fair representation? In the UK where I live there just isn't a problem and the vast majority of people I know don't go to church every week. The most I've ever had is a mild eyebrow raising at being so unEnglishly definitive (most would claim to be agnostic) but I've certainly never been called evil or hell fodder. It's an education, I tell ya. Do other Brits agree with me?

In Scandinavia, I get the impression that most people couldn't care less about the divine, even though many of them would identify themselves as Christians. For no other reason that they were baptised, mostly.

I've heard about people losing their jobs or even being frozen out of communities for not being Christian and specifically for being atheist in States though. And it seems to me that the States must have one of the highest ratios of fundies per capita in the World. Still, there are many really great people in the US and I hope one day they manage to break free of this "First God, than Jeebus, than meself" way of thinking. It can begin with electing an openly atheist president, as from experience, leaders who do not let religion get in the way of caring for their people tend to be the best ones.

Quote from: "weedoch"I've just joined up with this site and am frankly amazed by how hard it seems to be atheist or anything other than Christian in the States. Is this a fair representation? In the UK where I live there just isn't a problem and the vast majority of people I know don't go to church every week. The most I've ever had is a mild eyebrow raising at being so unEnglishly definitive (most would claim to be agnostic) but I've certainly never been called evil or hell fodder. It's an education, I tell ya. Do other Brits agree with me?

I live in the southern part of the states and it is pretty obvious that everyone I work with is a Christian. Our manager is heavily into church functions and works openly on church stuff while at work. Another person I work with is very vocal about god and how god does this and that. She often throws in how she only answers to god, so don’t tell her to do anything, but you may ask her.

It is hard to explain if you do not live here, but you are kind of expected to be Christian. I am sure everyone I work with assumes I am Christian. I was even approached by someone who whispered to me about another employee (who is no longer with the company) “did you know that he doesn’t believe in god?” I just said “really?” and moved on. It is not like I wanted to get into it, because well I am working.

Christianity in the US is kind of like cake. Everyone likes cake, right? If you don’t like cake, then you are trying to not like it because you are on a diet or something. Or you have never tried cake. If you have had cake and still don’t like it, then something must be wrong with you. How the hell can you not like cake?
Yeah Cake!

I've never encountered a real fundamental christian in my entire life before. It was therefore difficult for me to believe that these people actually exist. Meeting such people here on this forum was therefore quite a shock to me. Anyway, no-one takes you seriously here in Western Europe if you confess that you are a "true" christian. They'll doubt your credibility and at the worst think that you are a complete idiot. So basically, unlike the USA it is better to admit here that your are an atheist  than a christian.

Quote from: "jcm"It is hard to explain if you do not live here, but you are kind of expected to be Christian.

I know what you're saying. Anytime I tell somebody I'm an atheist they're really taken aback, even if they don't have a strong religious affiliation. They suddenly turn from talking about smoking a blunt to how God has a plan for their life. I told a particular woman at work that I'm an atheist, and she literally got angry. She told me she couldn't talk about it. And we never talked again.

The USA sucks in a lot of ways. The vast majority of people here are so uninformed, and don't care to research anything for themselves. I would like to live in the UK at some point in my life. Reason seems to be a little more prevalent.

jcm wrote:
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I live in the southern part of the states and it is pretty obvious that everyone I work with is a Christian. Our manager is heavily into church functions and works openly on church stuff while at work. Another person I work with is very vocal about god and how god does this and that. She often throws in how she only answers to god, so don’t tell her to do anything, but you may ask her.

It is hard to explain if you do not live here, but you are kind of expected to be Christian. I am sure everyone I work with assumes I am Christian. I was even approached by someone who whispered to me about another employee (who is no longer with the company) “did you know that he doesn’t believe in god?” I just said “really?” and moved on. It is not like I wanted to get into it, because well I am working.
[/quote]

I'm South Carolinian and I understand what you mean. I work in a school system and while we're supposed to have that wonderful thing called "separation of church and state" I wouldn't bet the mortgage money on it.
Any school-wide function is preluded with the Pledge of Allegiance (under God included), faculty functions always include words of prayer and/or 'songs of inspiration'. Several staff members are ministers or reverends and are allowed their way.
I've made mention of these things to supervisory personnel and have been told not to make a scene. If I didn't want to say the Pledge the way it was written I could leave out 'under God'. When I said it was written without the phrase and only inserted during the communist scare of the 50s I got that 'look'. I was also told that I didn't need to participate in prayers or songs etc etc etc.
The further up the chain I've gone with this the more resistance I've received. I finally told the superintendent the hell with it - I'm retiring in three years (or so) anyway.
While I've not been ostracized or singled out for my views, the question did arise in a district meeting once and a 'vote' was taken by all staff - overwhelmingly in the religious court's favor.
The buzz afterwards was people, some long-time associates, were p.o.'d about it even coming up and they wanted to know just who brought it up. I'll give credit that administration never did, to my knowledge, say.

It is really bizarre.  I've grown up with it and it still seems bizarre.  I mean, why do they even care what I'm thinking?  

My partner and I are really trying hard to get together enough money to move away from where we live.  It's horribly conservative Christian.  Because Grand Rapids is such a religious city (I believe there at least 7 Christian 'colleges' here) with predominantly Calvinist leanings it is difficult to find a workplace where being an atheist or agnostic doesn't jeopardize your job.  Add to that the fact that I'm bisexual and polyamorous.  I have to move so I can just be myself without fear of getting bashed or fired.

The San Francisco Bay Area is, in theory, one of the more liberal places in the United States... but it's still the United States of Jesusland. My step mother believes that homosexuality brings with it all sorts of horrible things, as if it were the equivalent of walking under a ladder or breaking glass. Someone I work with is actually planning on voting for John fucking McCain because he believes that John McCain would be Jesus's candidate. I get regular visits from judgmental and wide eyed Mormons and other Christians, whom I regularly try to convert to a religion I choose at random (last time it was Hinduism) while standing in my front courtyard. I can only imagine what life is like in the MidWest or South, which enjoy a much more evangelical reputation.

Quote from: "Willravel"The San Francisco Bay Area is, in theory, one of the more liberal places in the United States... but it's still the United States of Jesusland....

I'm kind of surprised that in the SF Bay area, you still get the door-to-door fundies.  Perhaps it's the area that you live in.  I'm in the Dallas area, so one would think I would be hounded by fundies all the time, but actually it has been a long time since I have been preached to by a fundy.  I attribute it to the area of the city that I live in.  At one time I lived in a more "family oriented" suburb, full of churches, and I used to encounter fundies with some regularity.  I moved to another suburban city just a few miles away which is not as "family oriented" and has no churches within the city limits that I know of.  My city borders on Dallas, but I have not been preached to since living where I am now.

Quote from: "crocofish"I'm kind of surprised that in the SF Bay area, you still get the door-to-door fundies.  Perhaps it's the area that you live in.

There are a lot more atheists here. Perhaps they feel they need to work harder. I still don't feel badly counter-converting them. If they really put up a fight, though, I will atheize them, which IS a lot easier in the Bay Area. Atheizing in St. Louis or Memphis would be a substantially more dangerous proposition.

I don't think that anybody goes door to door anymore except the Jehova's Witnesses and the Mormons. You still get all kinds in public places handing out pamphlets. But in evangelical circles Christians have been trying to get away from the pushy door to door stereotype, so there has been a huge push in 'relational evangelism'. Meaning you drop suble hints to your friends and family, like "I'll be praying for you" or "God's so awesome" in casual conversation. And there's this whole, we're too cool for door to door, attitude. They're trying to gain converts by playing hard to get.  Most don't even knock on visitors doors anymore on visitation night! When I was a kid, anybody new at church got a surprise visit on Tuesday nights.

Yes, the OP seems to have it right.  In many parts of the USA it would be more popular to call yourself a paedophile than an atheist.  Over here, if someone mentions 'the Lord' in a social situation, everybody gets a bit embarrassed or smiles politely.
Ironic - the USA theoretically has separation of church and state, whereas the UK is officially an Anglican country where the Monarch is still called Defender of the Faith and bishops still sit in the House of Lords.  But over here, most politicians don't have a faith or don't talk about it.
Christianity has very little real influence here.  In some ways, Islam has more because it is so much more vocal.

What the original poster said would seem to be correct. I'm from the UK and apart from the odd chance meeting with a doorstep fundie, or having a pamphlet shoved into my hands, i've never really encountered anything similar to what America seems to have. I did know a guy who had a nervous breakdown or some kind of psychotic episode. Basically god spoke to him directly and told him to do stuff. The most radical personality alteration i've ever seen in someone. If that wasn't confirmation to me that religion is a corrupting influence, i don't know what is...

Anyways, i never knew the true scale of the situation in America until a few years ago when i met a guy from North Carolina. He was travelling the world after realising how much of his life he was wasting devoting so much time to god. Before he left, his family disowned him (his mother even told him she was glad he'd burn in hell for all eternity as that was just punishment for turning his back on the lord). After meeting that very brave guy, i realised how truly corrosive the Church really can be. Ever since then i've spent a lot of time trying to find out as much as i can on the subject. The mass hypnotism/brainwashing of 180million people i find morbidly fascinating.

Quote from: "crocofish"I'm kind of surprised that in the SF Bay area, you still get the door-to-door fundies.  Perhaps it's the area that you live in.

Its expensive to live there. THe churches need more money.

Nto really, I dont know.

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"Its expensive to live there. THe churches need more money.

Nto really, I dont know.

It's won't be expensive here for long. If the real housing bubble bursts my home will go from $1.2m to $400k overnight. This means that income will likely drop off overall in the area, but gas prices will still be on the rise.

BTW, most congregations here are shrinking considerably.

The really evangelical churches I grew up in THRIVE on the "we're a persecuted minority, suffering for Christ" mentality. It's not surprising they'd be more aggressive in less religious areas.  

Knocking door-to-door in Oklahoma and finding out everyone you talk to loves Jesus too isn't going to make you feel self-righteous or superior in any way. In San Fran, though, if everyone you encounter is a "lost heathen" - wow! You are SO superior, and re-enforces the idea that the world needs Jesus - it fuels your missions...

Very clever, Jane!

Quote from: "Jane"The really evangelical churches I grew up in THRIVE on the "we're a persecuted minority, suffering for Christ" mentality. It's not surprising they'd be more aggressive in less religious areas.  

Knocking door-to-door in Oklahoma and finding out everyone you talk to loves Jesus too isn't going to make you feel self-righteous or superior in any way. In San Fran, though, if everyone you encounter is a "lost heathen" - wow! You are SO superior, and re-enforces the idea that the world needs Jesus - it fuels your missions...

Wow.

I definitely have a lot more respect now for openly non-religious over-the-ponders. As for the whole door step thing, we have that over here and in a way I respect their dedication - some seem genuinely worried for my soul - and it takes guts in Europe to proselytise! I wonder why there is such a strong need to condemn non-Christians in America? As an outsider I've noticed that conforming is a strong pull for the national identity - which appears to be the case with the use of the word Patriot too. It seems like the ultimate argument to prevent questioning the governing group to say you are being unpatriotic. Which would be worse to be thought of: atheist or non patriot?

Quote from: "weedoch"I definitely have a lot more respect now for openly non-religious over-the-ponders. As for the whole door step thing, we have that over here and in a way I respect their dedication - some seem genuinely worried for my soul - and it takes guts in Europe to proselytise! I wonder why there is such a strong need to condemn non-Christians in America? As an outsider I've noticed that conforming is a strong pull for the national identity - which appears to be the case with the use of the word Patriot too. It seems like the ultimate argument to prevent questioning the governing group to say you are being unpatriotic. Which would be worse to be thought of: atheist or non patriot?

In the US atheist = non patriot.

Not all non patriots are atheists but all atheists are considered non patriots.  Bush the First made several public statements to that effect and the rest of the religious right has glommed onto that attitude.

Quote from: "weedoch"I definitely have a lot more respect now for openly non-religious over-the-ponders.

I second that.

The only real fundies I've ever encountered have been either in America or American missionaries in Bristol (they wonder around stopping people in the street and bombarding them with questions). It's definitely a far more unforgiving climate for atheists in the US. I figured that out very quickly when I first went there - the difference is obvious even to an 8 year old. I'd say it's also a pretty unforgiving climate for 'non-patriots'. And homosexuals. And people of Eastern ethnicity living in white areas.

My impression is that elitism and flag-waving bullshit, generally, is everywhere in the States. If you aren't in a majority then keep yourself to yourself, don't voice your opinions openly and don't get in anyone's way seems to be almost the etiquette. If you disobey this rule then people apparently view it as a deliberate attempt to sabotage cultural harmony. Again, this is just my strong impression. However, I think it's becoming a particularly common one at the moment as, with everything going on in the world, the US seems to have become increasingly divided.

So yeah, muchos respect for the American atheists. Being atheistic here, I'd say, is probably easier than being a Christian. Even those in the faith seem to recognise that atheism = religious neutrality, hence nobody - even the Christians - would tolerate a strongly & openly religious leader here. The USA is a whole different kettle of fish. The fact that someone like Mike Huckabee (who terrifies me) could get as close to becoming president as he did tells it all, really.

EDIT: By the way, to the newer members, I'm in the UK. Just so you know where exactly I mean when I use the word 'here'.

Quote from: "Mister Joy"The only real fundies I've ever encountered have been either in America or American missionaries in Bristol (they wonder around stopping people in the street and bombarding them with questions).

Whoa, our trash is in your country? Sorry about that. We're doing our best to keep them in line over here, but it's like have 17 kids. Sometimes they get away from us.

In Ireland, the base assumption is just that you're Catholic. Weirdly, even the handful I know (very SMALL handful) that don't believe in god have said "I may not believe in god, but I'm still a Catholic"...

Last year, my husband's beloved uncle passed away and due to an intensely stressful time at work, he wasn't able to be at the hospital often. So I took on the role of being at the hospital, talking to the doctors, relaying information to the family, etc. During all the religious cliches at the bedside, I let it slip to one or two that I was an athiest. The most insulting reaction to that is a knowing "tsk tsk - you'll change your mind when it's you or your husband on that bed!"  as if they know WAY better than me about the matter. Ugh. So, the problem is I didn't care enough about our uncle to turn to god, but somehow, I WOULD care if it were my husband? That's insulting.

Quote from: "weedoch"I've just joined up with this site and am frankly amazed by how hard it seems to be atheist or anything other than Christian in the States. Is this a fair representation? In the UK where I live there just isn't a problem and the vast majority of people I know don't go to church every week. The most I've ever had is a mild eyebrow raising at being so unEnglishly definitive (most would claim to be agnostic) but I've certainly never been called evil or hell fodder. It's an education, I tell ya. Do other Brits agree with me?

It can be very hard here in the states.If you are not Chrisitan atleast in my surrounding towns you are are no better then dirt.Just in my surrounding area I found 34 Churches.3 in my small town,we don't even have a store here.But that doesn't matter we have God.

Jane, that reminds me of the old joke from the North of Ireland:
'Are yeez a catalick 'r a prodistnt?'
'Actually, I'm an atheist.'
But are yeez a catalick atheist 'r a prodistnt atheist?' :rant:

I've never lived anywhere but little old conservative Bakersfield. We have a high percentage of church-goers here. You can drive anywhere around town and you're bound to see mormon boys in their suits on their bicycles on their two-year mission. It's very rare I go a day without seeing a few.

Hardly anyone is openly atheist. And those who are are considered evil liberals.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"In the US atheist = non patriot.

Not all non patriots are atheists but all atheists are considered non patriots.  Bush the First made several public statements to that effect and the rest of the religious right has glommed onto that attitude.

“No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.” ~George Bush (senior)

I want to know, since when is this "one nation under God"? but that's a different topic....

Quote from: "susangail"I've never lived anywhere but little old conservative Bakersfield. We have a high percentage of church-goers here. You can drive anywhere around town and you're bound to see mormon boys in their suits on their bicycles on their two-year mission. It's very rare I go a day without seeing a few.

Hardly anyone is openly atheist. And those who are are considered evil liberals.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"In the US atheist = non patriot.

Not all non patriots are atheists but all atheists are considered non patriots.  Bush the First made several public statements to that effect and the rest of the religious right has glommed onto that attitude.

“No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.” ~George Bush (senior)

I want to know, since when is this "one nation under God"? but that's a different topic....

I think alot of Americans ,atheist or not are non-patriots as of late.George Bush Sr. has no right to say anything.If it weren't for him and his spawn we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.

Quote from: "Willravel"

Quote from: "Mister Joy"The only real fundies I've ever encountered have been either in America or American missionaries in Bristol (they wonder around stopping people in the street and bombarding them with questions).

Whoa, our trash is in your country? Sorry about that. We're doing our best to keep them in line over here, but it's like have 17 kids. Sometimes they get away from us.

A niece's husband recently spent six weeks as a missionary in England. He was stationed around Nottingham, if memory serves, bringing the word of the American evangelicals to the heathenish Church of England.

Oh, by the way, during this time his daughter was born but he couldn't get back until his service was up.

Quote from: "smallville"

Quote

QuoteThe only real fundies I've ever encountered have been either in America or American missionaries in Bristol (they wonder around stopping people in the street and bombarding them with questions).

    Whoa, our trash is in your country? Sorry about that. We're doing our best to keep them in line over here, but it's like have 17 kids. Sometimes they get away from us.

A niece's husband recently spent six weeks as a missionary in England. He was stationed around Nottingham, if memory serves, bringing the word of the American evangelicals to the heathenish Church of England.

We do ship some of our nutters over to the US, though. I think the really crazy British Christians tend to move to the States of their own accord. Check this guy out, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1Yo610lG0&feature=user

He also claims that the 'posh' British accent is 'charming' & therefore 'SaTaNiC', that WW2 was a 'Satanic Plan' & that people had computers in ancient Greece. Oh and he thinks that Aliens assassinated JFK.