Here's a little animal-related puzzle. Why is this rat wearing a harness, and what is it looking for?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FStVKVtR.jpg&hash=ad8838a26f2651b6681fab4756f64102356ebf6f)
Why is it being fed a banana?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FeInPH4m.jpg&hash=7c1ac019b26fc891889f9b2775a6f5ed48b4bf29)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8nQVMmj.jpg&hash=1e28848a0406b0141ce9720be3c607c7520e73ce)
I will wait for some guesses before I reveal where I took these strange photos (sorry about the poor quality - I was using a D80 at the time, so focusing was a bit slow). Let me reassure everyone that the little fellows are treated like royalty and well looked after. Each one has a name and the harnesses they wear are not uncomfortable. They are very tame and love being petted, as can be seen here.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fbdi7GIg.jpg&hash=683bd0bf0f438aec16a162e8e2273f3a2b21226a)
My guess is they are looking for land mines. As for the harnesses, so they don't run away?
I will wait for one or more guesses before giving the background.
I also think they're looking for land mines. I wonder if they're heavy enough to trigger one.
I think that if it was looking for landmines then its handler wouldn't be standing so close. The pictures don't reveal where the handler is, but I'm going to asume they are close by because the leash is tight, as if ready to pull the animal once it finds something.
I would definitely say the rat has been trained to provide some sort of service, though. They have an excellent sense of smell. It's being rewarded with a tasty banana because it found something.
Maybe some sort of foodstuff? Underground water?
It's a pet.
I thought possibly truffles, but will ride with the landmine possibility as well.
Or are they looking for buried bodies?
Some of you are correct. This facility is a Belgian initiative situated in a small town called Morogoro, about 4 hours drive from Dar Es Salaam in Tanzania. The rats are trained to sniff out land mines. When they detect one they behave like pointer dogs and merely show the disposal team where the mine is situated; they don't actually detonate the mine. During training a known amount of explosive is put into a perforated metal egg (usually used for tea leaves to make a cup of tea). The eggs are usually buried, but one is visible here:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFdfI7v4.jpg&hash=bb9518512be3b34083e7fdbf4e6fe357a4ecba48)
To determine how sensitive the rats are, samples of the soil above the egg are analyzed in a gas chromatograph-mass spectrometer instrument (GC-MS) to determine the concentration of explosive in the soil:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0RPb5zr.jpg&hash=c13e3ca21154d3f19b1140576bf4f3c6576e6af0)
That is why I visited the lab. The equipment was bought from our company in Johannesburg and it was my job to teach the operator how to use the hardware shown here and the software that controls it.
Here is a link to the web site of the facility:
https://www.apopo.org/en/mine-action/projects/tanzania
Fascinating indeed...
The site doesn't say, but I assume the goal is not to have the rat detonate the mine, but just find it.
I wonder what the numbers show about success rates.
Quote from: joeactor on February 21, 2017, 02:29:14 PM
Fascinating indeed...
The site doesn't say, but I assume the goal is not to have the rat detonate the mine, but just find it.
I wonder what the numbers show about success rates.
Yes, as I said above, they just point out the mines and don't detonate them. I was told that the project has been successful, but I do not have any statistics.
I did remember that rats were being used to detect diseases, TB, cancer, in samples.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/from-land-mines-to-cancer-animals-incredible-sense-of-smell-is-saving-lives-a6882146.html
Some handsome working rodents in those photos. Thanks for posting them, hermes2015! :)
Quote from: Recusant on February 21, 2017, 04:52:41 PM
Some handsome working rodents in those photos. Thanks for posting them, hermes2015! :)
I never thought I would find rats attractive, but they were quite adorable and very cuddly and affectionate.
I did a little reading about these rats here: www.bbc.com/future/story/20130222-scratch-and-sniff-mine-detectors
This is an awesome, monumentous partnership between animals and humans and the implications and potential uses are very exciting. 2 little bits from the article:
QuoteAccording to The International Committee of the Red Cross, more than 800 people are killed and 1,200 maimed by landmines every single month - most of them children, women, and elderly.....
...Yet since Apopo's rats launched into action in 2006, they've successfully cleared more than 6 million square meters of Mozambique's countryside, uncovering 2,406 landmines, 992 bombs, and 13,025 small arms and ammunitions.
I wish these rats were in use in Iraq and Afghanistan, they may have saved some soldiers' lives.
Cool thread, Hermes!
Quote from: Dragonia on February 21, 2017, 07:15:50 PM
I did a little reading about these rats here: www.bbc.com/future/story/20130222-scratch-and-sniff-mine-detectors
This is an awesome, monumentous partnership between animals and humans and the implications and potential uses are very exciting. 2 little bits from the article:
QuoteAccording to The International Committee of the Red Cross, more than 800 people are killed and 1,200 maimed by landmines every single month - most of them children, women, and elderly.....
...Yet since Apopo's rats launched into action in 2006, they've successfully cleared more than 6 million square meters of Mozambique's countryside, uncovering 2,406 landmines, 992 bombs, and 13,025 small arms and ammunitions.
I wish these rats were in use in Iraq and Afghanistan, they may have saved some soldiers' lives.
Cool thread, Hermes!
Good stuff, but from my experience in Bahrein and snecdoteal evidence eldrwhere the Arabs absolutely hate rats. They would probably not even tolerate them for this purpose. But, historically, and especially in "primitive" cultures, rats would have been a real problem, to be killed on sight. Arabs tend not to keep furry pets, except cheetas if they are rich enough, or hunting dogs maybe. ;)
Very interesting. I thought they would use other animals to sniff out landmines, which can perform the task without the need for their handler to be close by, such as a small dog, maybe.
Would a chihuahua detonate one of those mines? :scratch:
But maybe I'm underestimating these rats. They are really cute though!
Do you know what species they are? They look rather big to be Rattus norvegicus, or common rat.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on February 21, 2017, 11:40:17 PM
Very interesting. I thought they would use other animals to sniff out landmines, which can perform the task without the need for their handler to be close by, such as a small dog, maybe.
Would a chihuahua detonate one of those mines? :scratch:
Do you know what species they are? They look rather big to be Rattus norvegicus, or common rat.
I only know that they are called African Giant Pouched rats (according to the website).
Why rats? Well, the story I was told is that the guy who started the project grew up in a Belgian city. As an obviously bright young man he started wondering whether rats could perhaps help us in some way, instead of just being seen as pests to be exterminated in cities.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on February 21, 2017, 11:40:17 PM
Very interesting. I thought they would use other animals to sniff out landmines, which can perform the task without the need for their handler to be close by, such as a small dog, maybe.
Would a chihuahua detonate one of those mines? :scratch:
But maybe I'm underestimating these rats. They are really cute though!
Do you know what species they are? They look rather big to be Rattus norvegicus, or common rat.
Dogs are used of course.
Herbie is on the list of Australian lives wasted in Afghanistan.
He didn't get his own number on the list, he had to share it with his human (13).
I think he should of but perhaps they'd have been happy sharing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_Defence_Force_casualties_in_Afghanistan
Most rats I have met seemed quite intelligent, that goes for the rodent variety as well.
Ferrets might make a good substitute. Wonder if they vould be trained to search cavities in collapsed buildings. Little GPS/audio transmitter on a collar and train them to vocalise if they find a person.
Quote from: Gloucester on February 22, 2017, 08:18:28 AM
Ferrets might make a good substitute. Wonder if they vould be trained to search cavities in collapsed buildings. Little GPS/audio transmitter on a collar and train them to vocalise if they find a person.
Sounds like an excellent idea for a business. Shall we start a company to do that? With all your money and my winged feet it is sure to work.
Very interesting thread Hermes, and nice pictures you took. The photo of the lab equipment you posted, is for analyzing the soil samples?
I watched a short documentary on the use of these large rats for the purpose of locating land-mines sometime ago that was quite interesting, trying to locate the one I watched, and if I can come across it I'll post it.
Rats were chosen for several reasons according to the film I saw, one because they are lightweight they won't trigger the land-mine with their body weight, and also because they are intelligent enough to be trained. They don't respond to vocal commands, so I believe they use clicks to communicate and reward the rats with food.
I also believe these large rats only have a normal life-span of only 8-9 years, and it takes almost a year to train them from birth so they don't get several years worth of work out of a rat before it's retired.
I have a personal dislike of rats, but this program and these rats are special. Thanks for posting Hermes 8)
Quote from: Father Bruno on February 22, 2017, 01:16:03 PM
Very interesting thread Hermes, and nice pictures you took. The photo of the lab equipment you posted, is for analyzing the soil samples?
You are welcome! That kind of GC-MS is not just for soil. They are used in general for the analysis of organic target compounds in environmental, petrochemical, clinical, and really any kind of chemical samples. A very important application area is forensics. Watch CSI and you can get an idea; apart from a few bloopers, the CSI programs are actually quite a good representation of the type of work we can do on that kind of equipment. As an organic chemist I move around in all those labs to train analysts.
Quote from: hermes2015 on February 22, 2017, 01:28:43 PM
Quote from: Father Bruno on February 22, 2017, 01:16:03 PM
Very interesting thread Hermes, and nice pictures you took. The photo of the lab equipment you posted, is for analyzing the soil samples?
You are welcome! That kind of GC-MS is not just for soil. They are used in general for the analysis of organic target compounds in environmental, petrochemical, clinical, and really any kind of chemical samples. A very important application area is forensics. Watch CSI and you can get an idea; apart from a few bloopers, the CSI programs are actually quite a good representation of the type of work we can do on that kind of equipment. As an organic chemist I move around in all those labs to train analysts.
There was a short piece on the radio where the sort of info various parts of the human body can give up to appropriate equipment was explained - incredible!
Was the machine purchased by the team for this one oroject, must be incredibly expensive? Or was it rented? Though I do remember making a case fir a £3000 piece of kit, in the early 70s, for a big project . . . But I really wanted it for several other jobs and just general lab kit!
Since the project was a government job and at cost I got my toy. What's three grand in 300 odd grand estimated cost?
OK, about 1%, I know. :D
But my boss could see that bit of the future as well and endorsed the application.
Quote from: Gloucester on February 22, 2017, 02:17:26 PM
Was the machine purchased by the team for this one oroject, must be incredibly expensive? Or was it rented? ....
It was purchased, which is the usual way it is done. The price for the one shown would be around US$ 130 000.
In forensic work, the courts normally only accept results obtained on this kind of equipment (we call it 3D data). That is why our police forensics labs own in excess of 50 of these.