Hi all.
I just started getting treatment with acupuncture and herbal medicine (for sleep problems and sciatica)
They came highly recommended by my wife's family, and only speak Mandarin.
Wondering if any of you have tried either of these alternative treatments. There have been some studies done that show promise, but I don't have any personal experience.
I'll report back on how it's going.
BTW, the herbals taste like crap.
JoeActor
I'll be very interested in what you have to report.
Quote from: Tank on December 27, 2016, 03:45:55 PM
I'll be very interested in what you have to report.
I'm going in with some skepticism, but trying to be open minded as well.
My bias is that the herbs may do more than the needles, but we'll see...
I've been using herbal therapy on my dogs chronic conditions for more than a decade.
It -can- work. Like so many things, it's what you're doing with it that maters. Herbs aren't going to cure cancer all by themselves, for instance. But we know for a fact that many do have proven qualities than can treat or compliment conventional therapies, such as milk thistle for liver dysfunction.
Thanks PC!
My wife thinks I'm a dog, so the herbs might help :o
Hmm... Herbal medicine? Maybe. It not being some traditional superstition crap may improve chances. Getting stabbed with needles? Maybe, for things like muscle pains. Placebos work very well for some though, or so I hear.
To sum up, I'm highly skeptical.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 27, 2016, 05:54:09 PM
Hmm... Herbal medicine? Maybe. It not being some traditional superstition crap may improve chances. Getting stabbed with needles? Maybe, for things like muscle pains. Placebos work very well for some though, or so I hear.
To sum up, I'm highly skeptical.
Should be an interesting personal experiment at least...
I think it ultimately depends on whether you've got a doctor who has studied herbology and alternative medicine, or someone who is super in to "natural healing" and got their acupuncture license and carries supplements.
I haven't for myself mostly due to lack of need/opportunity at this time... it's not covered and I'm not -that- bad.
My one dog had undiagnosed GI problems - likely some form of IBD but testing was expensive, dangerous and did not change treatment. So we did very proven things like modify diet to greater digestability and bioavailability. Slippery elm is known to naturally coat the GI tract without some of Pepto, etc side effects. Vitamins C and E, found in abundance in certain plants and foods, aid nutrient absorption. And so forth.
My other dog goes for her chronic Lyme.
If you're going someplace that's prescribing tiger claw because the chakra of your right eye is out of alignment... well...
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 27, 2016, 07:19:04 PM
I think it ultimately depends on whether you've got a doctor who has studied herbology and alternative medicine, or someone who is super in to "natural healing" and got their acupuncture license and carries supplements.
...
If you're going someplace that's prescribing tiger claw because the chakra of your right eye is out of alignment... well...
It's not new age at all. Very old Chinese medicine. She's 70+ and has enough patients to run a clinic and also see people at her home. I wish I knew more, but I have to rely on my wife to translate.
Status update:
After 3 sessions (30 minutes each), I've decided to stop.
The sessions themselves weren't that bad. Lots of needles, but only a few really stung. Some small marks, and a couple spots of blood.
However, the table I was on was putting a serious crick in my neck. Actually bothered me more than the needles.
I'm just not seeing a noticeable difference. Maybe I'm not giving it a fair chance, or don't have enough belief in it for it to work. But the fact is that it's taking 1.5-2 hours out of each day (drive time plus session), and that's just adding to my end-of-year stress. I was hoping to catch up on some things and feel like I'm falling further behind instead.
As for the herbs, I'll continue with them for the full week. Aside from tasting bad, they don't seem to be having any other effect, good or bad.
One take-away I got was that it's difficult to attribute a cure without a more tightly controlled environment. There's a lot going on. The stress of a new doctor and treatment. The drive time stress. The needles (not bad for me, but for some, also a major stress). It's actually given me a greater appreciation for the scientific method.
I'll report in again after I finish the herbs next week.
Your lab rat,
JoeActor
Good work Guinea Pig Joe!
Depending on the herbs, they generally take weeks to months to really see a difference.
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 29, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
Depending on the herbs, they generally take weeks to months to really see a difference.
Thanks...
I've tried a few herbal remedies in the past. Some were pretty good.
She prescribed 15 doses (2 per day), so we'll see.
Your willingness to let somebody stick long sharp objects into you in the name of open minded inquiry is admirable, joeactor. Thank you for your reports! :bravo:
Experiment: over!
My wife called to tell them I didn't want to continue the acupuncture, but would try to finish the herbs.
Sounds like they told her how screwed up I was and that I'd need a lot more herbs and/or needles.
And... no. I'm done. I actually feel a little worse than when I started, so no more herbs, no more needles.
Maybe I need to find "the right one" to treat me, but I'm just not motivated at present.
Worth a try, but little or no results to report.
Short ride!
Joe
Quote from: joeactor on December 30, 2016, 07:58:26 PM
Experiment: over!
My wife called to tell them I didn't want to continue the acupuncture, but would try to finish the herbs.
Sounds like they told her how screwed up I was and that I'd need a lot more herbs and/or needles.
And... no. I'm done. I actually feel a little worse than when I started, so no more herbs, no more needles.
Maybe I need to find "the right one" to treat me, but I'm just not motivated at present.
Worth a try, but little or no results to report.
Short ride!
Joe
Oh, my dear
Joeactor, :therethere:
It could've been worse...a lot worse.
:grin:
(I wish I knew what he is saying.) :chin:
OUCH! (yeah, that's worse!)
Didn't get any in the face, but that is a possibility.
Head, neck, wrists, feet, back, thighs... Even found one after I left once!
Quote from: joeactor on December 30, 2016, 07:58:26 PM
Sounds like they told her how screwed up I was and that I'd need a lot more herbs and/or needles.
:eyeroll: That seems like S.O.P. for that sort of outfit.
Quote from: Recusant on December 31, 2016, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: joeactor on December 30, 2016, 07:58:26 PM
Sounds like they told her how screwed up I was and that I'd need a lot more herbs and/or needles.
:eyeroll: That seems like S.O.P. for that sort of outfit.
It certainly didn't give me any confidence in them...
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 29, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
Depending on the herbs, they generally take weeks to months to really see a difference.
In other words, the time frame for me to get better all by my skeptical self?
Joined late but . . .
Depends what you call herbal medicines. Medicines that can be purely of plant origin are include, morphine, quinine, aspirin - you can grow a salix to get salicyclic acid in your garden.
I am cautious about herbal medicine, the NHS and WebMD warn heart condition sufferers against uding them without advice, partlicularly gingko biloba.
I am a very long term sufferer of attacks of extreme Irritable Bowel Syndrome - painful and embarrassing. Between bouts would be a constant stream of indigestion, flatulance, heartburn or just old fashioned gut ache.
I refuced certain food intakes, have to eat white bread now despite that being not good for my gout. Cereal fibre is a no-no!
Then I tried drinking peppermint infusion instead of tea and coffee for my regular drink. After about three months I realised that almost all the gastric problems had reduced to insignificant levels.
So, if peppermint infusion is considered in the same class as "herbal medicine", a substance of botanic origin that gives a beneficial effect, then that one works for me!
However, as in all cases, self-diagnosis and treatment have dangers - see a doctor first, ask advice and experiment carefully.
Of course, all alcoholic beverages are of plant origin but whether they can be called medicines is open to debate!
Quote from: Gloucester on December 31, 2016, 07:49:04 PM
Joined late but . . .
Depends what you call herbal medicines. Medicines that can be purely of plant origin are include, morphine, quinine, aspirin - you can grow a salix to get salicyclic acid in your garden.
I am cautious about herbal medicine, the NHS and WebMD warn heart condition sufferers against uding them without advice, partlicularly gingko biloba.
I am a very long term sufferer of attacks of extreme Irritable Bowel Syndrome - painful and embarrassing. Between bouts would be a constant stream of indigestion, flatulance, heartburn or just old fashioned gut ache.
I refuced certain food intakes, have to eat white bread now despite that being not good for my gout. Cereal fibre is a no-no!
Then I tried drinking peppermint infusion instead of tea and coffee for my regular drink. After about three months I realised that almost all the gastric problems had reduced to insignificant levels.
So, if peppermint infusion is considered in the same class as "herbal medicine", a substance of botanic origin that gives a beneficial effect, then that one works for me!
However, as in all cases, self-diagnosis and treatment have dangers - see a doctor first, ask advice and experiment carefully.
Of course, all alcoholic beverages are of plant origin but whether they can be called medicines is open to debate!
Thanks Gloucester - I had IBS also. Used biofeedback and daily fiber to take care of it... also got treated for giardiasis (which may be a causal factor)
I wish I knew what was in the herbs, but didn't speak the language at all. A big part of why I stopped taking it.
And hadn't thought of interactions, but they're a real danger for sure.
Quote from: joeactor on December 31, 2016, 09:02:05 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on December 31, 2016, 07:49:04 PM
Joined late but . . .
Depends what you call herbal medicines. Medicines that can be purely of plant origin are include, morphine, quinine, aspirin - you can grow a salix to get salicyclic acid in your garden.
I am cautious about herbal medicine, the NHS and WebMD warn heart condition sufferers against uding them without advice, partlicularly gingko biloba.
I am a very long term sufferer of attacks of extreme Irritable Bowel Syndrome - painful and embarrassing. Between bouts would be a constant stream of indigestion, flatulance, heartburn or just old fashioned gut ache.
I refuced certain food intakes, have to eat white bread now despite that being not good for my gout. Cereal fibre is a no-no!
Then I tried drinking peppermint infusion instead of tea and coffee for my regular drink. After about three months I realised that almost all the gastric problems had reduced to insignificant levels.
So, if peppermint infusion is considered in the same class as "herbal medicine", a substance of botanic origin that gives a beneficial effect, then that one works for me!
However, as in all cases, self-diagnosis and treatment have dangers - see a doctor first, ask advice and experiment carefully.
Of course, all alcoholic beverages are of plant origin but whether they can be called medicines is open to debate!
Thanks Gloucester - I had IBS also. Used biofeedback and daily fiber to take care of it... also got treated for giardiasis (which may be a causal factor)
I wish I knew what was in the herbs, but didn't speak the language at all. A big part of why I stopped taking it.
And hadn't thought of interactions, but they're a real danger for sure.
There's the rub, some fibres bring my IBS on. Took months of experimenting, cereal fibres seem to be the worst for me. Soluble fibres - from apple peel, tomato and grape skins etc, should cause probs but I seem to be able to eat all those.
I think some herbs are definitely beneficial but dismiss most of the claims from the woo merchants until I have researched them thoroughly and taken medical advice.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 31, 2016, 05:24:28 PM
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 29, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
Depending on the herbs, they generally take weeks to months to really see a difference.
In other words, the time frame for me to get better all by my skeptical self?
These remedies are generally aimed at chronic issues, not acute illnesses. Anyone selling "cures" for the common cold is full of shit, regardless of what ideology they preach.
If you were constantly suffering acute illnesses, a natural practitioner could work to strengthen your immune system to better fight off colds and flus before you get them. There are plenty of substances known to have this effect - zinc, for instance, which is commonly marketed as a common cold cure, does not work acutely but is proven to help your boost your immune system if taken long-term.
I also want to commiserate with fellow GI sufferers...
I can't do peppermint much, personally. I keep Altoids on me because a little will help if I'm just kinda "off" but my major problem is acid overproduction and peppermint can aggravate that. Chamomile does me better, but your system can get used to it so I have to use sparingly. I find it helps general cramping/tension headaches as well since it's an overall relaxant.
Diet is huge for me too. It seems I can eat whatever fiber I want, I just have to keep switching it up. Too many days in a row of anything is bad. Wheat is the only thing that I really need to be sparing with. Fat is a huge problem, specifically olive oil for some reason. Animal fats are better than plant, which flies in the face of most conventional wisdom but it is what it is. Fruits are generally ok, veg will bother me if I eat too much raw. And apparently every cheese has a slightly different bacterial make up, which means I can eat some with no problem and others are just a complete meltdown. At my sickest I could eat a pile of feta without flinching and a single bite of mozzarella would have me ill for days.
GI systems are weird.
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 31, 2016, 11:38:21 PM
I also want to commiserate with fellow GI sufferers...
I can't do peppermint much, personally. I keep Altoids on me because a little will help if I'm just kinda "off" but my major problem is acid overproduction and peppermint can aggravate that. Chamomile does me better, but your system can get used to it so I have to use sparingly. I find it helps general cramping/tension headaches as well since it's an overall relaxant.
Diet is huge for me too. It seems I can eat whatever fiber I want, I just have to keep switching it up. Too many days in a row of anything is bad. Wheat is the only thing that I really need to be sparing with. Fat is a huge problem, specifically olive oil for some reason. Animal fats are better than plant, which flies in the face of most conventional wisdom but it is what it is. Fruits are generally ok, veg will bother me if I eat too much raw. And apparently every cheese has a slightly different bacterial make up, which means I can eat some with no problem and others are just a complete meltdown. At my sickest I could eat a pile of feta without flinching and a single bite of mozzarella would have me ill for days.
GI systems are weird.
Yes, peppermint is not everyone's cup of tea . . .
:run!:
I hear ya PC...
Ginger, wasabi and horse radish set me off. Daily Citrucel and plenty of fruit/veg fiber is good. No problem with wheat or other grains.
I'm pretty wary of miracle cures, cleanses, etc.
With as many quirks as it has, the human body does a generally good job of maintenance (with a little help, that is)
I can eat pretty much anything and my stomach will handle it. Since that is a thing, I try to eat healthy and lately I've been eating more fish. Then finally after watching a YouTube video, I busted out some spinach and have been feeling great ever since.
A little apple cider vinegar daily is good for the GI system. Keeps acid reflux at bay somewhat.
I could never stomach ACV either. One of those substances with so many claims I'm skeptical of it, especially since it made me worse.
I tried drinking it once to ward off a bacterial pharyngitis, because I hate going on antibiotics and Dr Google suggested it... It didn't work at all - didn't even stagnate - and made me reek of vinegar within a couple hours.
Lovely on salad, though!
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 31, 2016, 11:26:15 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 31, 2016, 05:24:28 PM
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 29, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
Depending on the herbs, they generally take weeks to months to really see a difference.
In other words, the time frame for me to get better all by my skeptical self?
These remedies are generally aimed at chronic issues, not acute illnesses. Anyone selling "cures" for the common cold is full of shit, regardless of what ideology they preach.
If you were constantly suffering acute illnesses, a natural practitioner could work to strengthen your immune system to better fight off colds and flus before you get them. There are plenty of substances known to have this effect - zinc, for instance, which is commonly marketed as a common cold cure, does not work acutely but is proven to help your boost your immune system if taken long-term.
Oh, certainly. I do not dispute the effectiveness of certain traditional remedies. After all, putting pressure on a wound is still a good way to staunch bleeding after all those thousands of years. Still, modern traditional medicine, especially of Asian origins, is so full of shit in general that personally, I would not go down that road at all if I had a legitimate health issue. My doctor has an M.D. he actually is worthy of and he reads mags with all the cool modern stuff in. I'll try that in stead.
Quote from: Asmodean on January 02, 2017, 05:04:14 PM
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 31, 2016, 11:26:15 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 31, 2016, 05:24:28 PM
Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 29, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
Depending on the herbs, they generally take weeks to months to really see a difference.
In other words, the time frame for me to get better all by my skeptical self?
These remedies are generally aimed at chronic issues, not acute illnesses. Anyone selling "cures" for the common cold is full of shit, regardless of what ideology they preach.
If you were constantly suffering acute illnesses, a natural practitioner could work to strengthen your immune system to better fight off colds and flus before you get them. There are plenty of substances known to have this effect - zinc, for instance, which is commonly marketed as a common cold cure, does not work acutely but is proven to help your boost your immune system if taken long-term.
Oh, certainly. I do not dispute the effectiveness of certain traditional remedies. After all, putting pressure on a wound is still a good way to staunch bleeding after all those thousands of years. Still, modern traditional medicine, especially of Asian origins, is so full of shit in general that personally, I would not go down that road at all if I had a legitimate health issue. My doctor has an M.D. he actually is worthy of and he reads mags with all the cool modern stuff in. I'll try that in stead.
With you there, Asmo. Horses for courses, peppermint works, in the long term, on IBS for many people. Any clsims to chre, or even offer relief ftom, the likes of cancer etc. for non-prescription health-food-shop stuff is oure shit. One botanical that works with some cancers, an extract from an evergreen, is very dangerous if misused.
Stuff that works on cancer is super tricky, because it's not curative despite having some positive effect. And so the "all nature! chemo kills!" crowd has plenty of fuel. It gets extra complicated when you start taking into account how the natural remedies work versus chemotherapies. Generally they are contraindicated. So you get all sorts of cases where people ultimately hurt themselves loading on super doses of things like turmeric and omega 3s while on other drugs.
ACV also cures warts, hemorrhoids, itchy scrotum, bad breath, and ALS. 😋
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 02, 2017, 09:07:17 PM
ACV also cures warts, hemorrhoids, itchy scrotum, bad breath, and ALS. 😋
In dogs it cures upset stomach, allergies, dry skin, yeast infections, tear staining, bad breath, chronic UTIs, dissolves crystals and stones, both lowers and raises pH and "detoxifies" the body.
And that's just the list I hear regularly.
Quote from: Pasta Chick on January 02, 2017, 09:16:27 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 02, 2017, 09:07:17 PM
ACV also cures warts, hemorrhoids, itchy scrotum, bad breath, and ALS. 😋
In dogs it cures upset stomach, allergies, dry skin, yeast infections, tear staining, bad breath, chronic UTIs, dissolves crystals and stones, both lowers and raises pH and "detoxifies" the body.
And that's just the list I hear regularly.
The real question: is ACV better than Windex?
Just a recap on my blog:
http://www.joesdump.com/2017/01/23/needles-and-herbs/