Could someone explain to me what Cosmological Evolution is in a way that my 5-year-old son would also (sort of) understand it? --Please--Thank you.
:notes:
Basically it's the the evolution of the universe, from the Big Bang to the present day, or of structures within the universe, such as the evolution of black holes, galaxies or planetary systems.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fplanck.cf.ac.uk%2Ffiles%2FPlanck_history_of_Universe_Crop_1k.jpg&hash=cd4123b477f19131df41356a2784cbfe212bc146)
Just after the Big Bang, when the fabric of space-time started to expand, temperatures were extremely hot. There were no atoms at the time, only quantum fluctuations. Most atoms are tiny building blocks of matter which have a positive centre (nucleus) and negative electronsphere (antimatter is the other way round). Because of the intense heat, plasma (one of the states of matter) started to form. The sun is plasma, fire is plasma. Plasma particles are charged particles where it's just too hot for electrons to bind to a nucleus and form an atom. During this plasma period light the universe was opaque to light because photons couldn't get through the dense "stew" of particles without hitting a stray electron.
After the expanding universe cools a bit we get the first hydrogen atoms, which are the simplest atoms and have one proton and one electron bound to it. Hydrogen is the most abundant atom in the universe till this day. Photons ("packets" of light) are no longer in thermal equilibrium with the universe which so they decouple from atoms and cosmic microwave background radiation is released, which is this beauty here:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcosmology.berkeley.edu%2FEducation%2FCosmologyEssays%2Fimages%2FWMAP_skymap.jpg&hash=53bd75291c378ace57f86cff7a9cf94a8348ceb1)
Neil DeGrasse Tyson mentioned in one of his science videos that when you turn on your TV and get static noise, a small percentage of it comes from this ancient radiation. 8)
In comes this mysterious form of matter known as Dark Matter, called that way because it lets off no light whatsoever. It can't be seen with any instrument we have, only its gravitational effects measured. Dark matter is everywhere but only interacts with normal matter gravitationally. I call our everyday matter "normal" but our type of matter is only a tiny portion of all the matter present in the universe.
This is a computer rendering of the ginormous structure:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.extremetech.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F08%2Fdark-matter-head.jpg&hash=d0e548bc75e31dcb10c229aef711a52738cabc3d)
Fascinating stuff. Last time I checked, the scientific community didn't know for sure what it is.
Now that we have plenty of hydrogen atoms in the universe, and the universe has cooled sufficiently, star formation is possible. These atoms come together and under the weight of the immense gravitational pull, gas comes together, heats up and ignites, becoming stars in nurseries or nebulas. This is my personal favourite nebula, known as the "Pillars of Creation".
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Eagle_nebula_pillars.jpg/800px-Eagle_nebula_pillars.jpg)
Our whole solar system can fit into a tiny portion of one of the pillars.
Here's another one, called "The Eye of God". :snicker:
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Mq8pJpRc--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/772223414747072581.jpg)
Stars are born, and they die when their fuel runs out. Big ones go out with a bang (supernovas) while smaller ones (such as our sun) go with a whimper. Stars convert hydrogen into helium, and then helium into carbon. When it runs out of those to burn, it creates iron, which isn't used as fuel. The death process has begun. Black holes and dense neutron stars are created when massive stars die while smaller stars become mostly white or red dwarfs.
Dark matter plays a huge role in galaxy formation. Computer simulations show that a galaxy wouldn't form without the extra dark matter mass pulling stuff together. Some say that all supermassive black holes in the centre of every galaxy might also play a part.
Hmm...what else. :chin:
Future predictions:
Until a few years ago, people thought that the universe was slowing down, but it was discovered (by Hubble, I think) that it is in fact accelerating. In comes 'dark energy', which is pushing galaxies apart faster and faster, leading to the conclusion that the universe will die a dark and cold death. Eventually dark energy will push stars apart faster than light travels, so from our perspective, if our descendants are still around by then, there will be no such thing as starlight.
Another hypothesis is the the big bang will reverse and will end with a Big Crunch, but since the discovery of dark energy this hypothesis has become less popular.
That was a marvelous explanation xSP. I raise my glass to you.
Yes, thank you, xSilverPhinx. :hug:
The reason I included a 5-year-old in my question is because someone asked me if I wanted to put my son in a religious club, their aim is to "help kids know God and to learn from the Bible." I, of course, said, "No, thank you." :f you:
I'm assuming...in this bible club they teach that a god created the universe: The Book of Genesis.
The way Cosmological Evolution explains "the beginning" and "the end" is much better: :smilenod:
"Basically it's the evolution of the universe, from the Big Bang to the present day, or of structures within the universe, such as the evolution of black holes, galaxies or planetary systems." ― xSilverPhinx
...and us...yes? We are made of star-stuff. :grin:
"The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff." ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Quote from: Icarus on November 04, 2016, 10:38:54 PM
That was a marvelous explanation xSP. I raise my glass to you.
Thank you, Icarus. :)
I could ramble on and on about astronomy, an interest that started in childhood, in fact.
Cracking description xSPx!
Quote from: Magdalena on November 05, 2016, 01:21:35 AM
Yes, thank you, xSilverPhinx. :hug:
The reason I included a 5-year-old in my question is because someone asked me if I wanted to put my son in a religious club, their aim is to "help kids know God and to learn from the Bible." I, of course, said, "No, thank you." :f you:
I'm assuming...in this bible club they teach that a god created the universe: The Book of Genesis.
The way Cosmological Evolution explains "the beginning" and "the end" is much better: :smilenod:
"Basically it's the evolution of the universe, from the Big Bang to the present day, or of structures within the universe, such as the evolution of black holes, galaxies or planetary systems." ― xSilverPhinx
...and us...yes? We are made of star-stuff. :grin:
"The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff." ― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Yes, we are made of starstuff, which is one of the most beautiful ideas in science, I think. :grin:
Myths are interesting but religion are just boring in comparison to science. Maybe thousands of years from now Christian myths will join ancient Greek, Nordic, Celtic and other old myths for what they are, just a collection of stories that explain the universe from an ancient human perspective. They have anthropological but no scientific value whatsoever.
When I was around your son's age I would read The Magic School Bus series, my favourite being Lost in the Solar System (Amazon.com) (https://www.amazon.com/Magic-School-Lost-Solar-System/dp/0590414291/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478342092&sr=8-1&keywords=the+magic+school+bus+lost+in+the+solar+system).
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fIxdzU4WL._SY405_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Quote from: Tank on November 05, 2016, 10:21:42 AM
Cracking description xSPx!
Thanks, Tank :D Is it odd that I find these kind of things fun? :grin:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 05, 2016, 10:48:29 AM
Quote from: Tank on November 05, 2016, 10:21:42 AM
Cracking description xSPx!
Thanks, Tank :D Is it odd that I find these kind of things fun? :grin:
Not at all. I love this sort of thing!
Excellent description, xSP!
On the star stuff thing - ask young kids if they was to touch star stuff. Then ask them to hold hands with their neighbour. Then tell them why.
Quote from: Gloucester on November 05, 2016, 11:35:09 AM
Excellent description, xSP!
On the star stuff thing - ask young kids if they was to touch star stuff. Then ask them to hold hands with their neighbour. Then tell them why.
That's bound to leave an impression! :smilenod:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 05, 2016, 01:15:18 PM
Quote from: Gloucester on November 05, 2016, 11:35:09 AM
Excellent description, xSP!
On the star stuff thing - ask young kids if they was to touch star stuff. Then ask them to hold hands with their neighbour. Then tell them why.
That's bound to leave an impression! :smilenod:
That's beautiful. :tellmemore:
Reminds me of the Olympic Ad from Dick's Sporting Goods:
Well...to some, the heart is just a pump--nothing more. :-\
Quote from: Magdalena on November 05, 2016, 07:15:57 PM
Reminds me of the Olympic Ad from Dick's Sporting Goods:
Well...to some, the heart is just a pump--nothing more. :-\
To me it's more than just a pump, it's a modified blood vessel. :P
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 05, 2016, 11:26:48 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 05, 2016, 07:15:57 PM
Reminds me of the Olympic Ad from Dick's Sporting Goods:
Well...to some, the heart is just a pump--nothing more. :-\
To me it's more than just a pump, it's a modified blood vessel. :P
:P
It's the pump that puts fuel into my muscles to keep lifting these massive weights. RAAAAWWWWRRRRRR!
^ :lol:
I just heard my niece's paternal grandfather had a heart attack. He stopped breathing for around 18 minutes and is in the hospital right now, in an induced coma. They don't know if he'll have any neurological damage but I think it's quite possible, 18 minutes is a long time.
I'm in a bit of a shock.
Edited to add: this topic was split
What would be a good explanation for death and/or serious neurological damage that a young child could understand? How would an atheist explain these things?
My niece already believes that some people go to heaven because that's what her parents told her is what happens, and I'm not going to argue with that because I'm assuming it's a more comfortable and easier notion for a child to have. Also, I'm already seen as 'the annoying atheist' at times who tarnishes and destroys everything that is beautiful about existence, so I'll leave them to their stories. I'm just curious about what kind of answers you'll give, because I'm at a loss.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 01:13:42 PM
Speaking of hearts, I just heard my niece's paternal grandfather had a heart attack. He stopped breathing for around 18 minutes and is in the hospital right now, in an induced coma. They don't know if he'll have any neurological damage but I think it's quite possible, 18 minutes is a long time.
I'm in a bit of a shock.
Anything over 4 minutes is touch and go so I believe. Not good.
Quote from: Tank on November 06, 2016, 03:02:02 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 01:13:42 PM
Speaking of hearts, I just heard my niece's paternal grandfather had a heart attack. He stopped breathing for around 18 minutes and is in the hospital right now, in an induced coma. They don't know if he'll have any neurological damage but I think it's quite possible, 18 minutes is a long time.
I'm in a bit of a shock.
Anything over 4 minutes is touch and go so I believe. Not good.
Yes, I think you're right. His family are hopeful but sadly I think it's misplaced hope. :(
QuoteThe brain, however, appears to accumulate ischemic injury faster than any other organ. Without special treatment after circulation is restarted, full recovery of the brain after more than 3 minutes of clinical death at normal body temperature is rare. Usually brain damage or later brain death results after longer intervals of clinical death even if the heart is restarted and blood circulation is successfully restored. Brain injury is therefore the chief limiting factor for recovery from clinical death.
Clinical Death (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death)
I don't know how my niece's parents are going to explain things to her, she's 7 and adores her grandfather.
That's very sad, xSilverPhinx. :(
All of my kids have gone through a stage where they start to notice that some people they love are getting old and they worry that they will die soon. (These people are not old, they're in their 30's, 40's 50's) But to them, they're old!
It's difficult to explain death to a child. :-\
Yes, I'd imagine it is (I never had to do it, thankfully).
I like the way Neil DeGrasse Tyson explains his view of death.
It's not as satisfying to someone with existential dread or the fear of non-existence but it works for me. I don't know what would work for a child though. In the case of my niece, she has the belief that people go to heaven instilled in her already. ::)
^^
Thank you for that, I liked it.
If I'm made from star-stuff, I want to return there, so I would like to be cremated.--When I die. ;)
Sorry to hear about your niece's grandfather, xSilverPhinx, death is hard for all survivors but particularly so for little kids. I think the heaven explanation is so popular, even sometimes with non-religious people, because it's so much easier for a kid to accept that grandpa or aunt Daisy just went somewhere magical and they'll see them again someday. Little kids often understand magic much better than reality.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on November 06, 2016, 08:21:23 PM
Sorry to hear about your niece's grandfather, xSilverPhinx, death is hard for all survivors but particularly so for little kids. I think the heaven explanation is so popular, even sometimes with non-religious people, because it's so much easier for a kid to accept that grandpa or aunt Daisy just went somewhere magical and they'll see them again someday. Little kids often understand magic much better than reality.
Yes, luckily he's still alive, breathing without the use of machines and has a newly installed pacemaker. He's still in an induced coma though and the most worrisome thing about it all is what kind of neurological sequelae he's suffered and if we can hope for reasonable recovery. I can't think of any magical explanation to explain that kind of damage, the notion of an immaterial 'soul' not bound to matter just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. :-\
Sorry for having derailed your wonderful topic so far off the tracks, Mags. I've split it into a conversation of its own. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14760.msg340862#msg340862)
Back to stardust and cosmological evolution...
A question: does anybody know if the building blocks of the atoms in the universe have been around since the beginning of time? I've heard of virtual particles, particles that pop in and out of existence, but could they ever stabilise and form something more complex?
Here's one of my favourite quotes on the universe:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/89/7e/6b/897e6bf1d6437195a4533af781fa7431.jpg)
The part about sufficiently conscious beings such as us (and I'm not ruling out the possibility of other intelligent lifeforms out there) being part of the universe that seeks to understand itself sends a shudder down my spine every time. 8)
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 11:43:42 PM
Sorry for having derailed your wonderful topic so far off the tracks, Mags. I've split it into a conversation of its own. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14760.msg340862#msg340862)
Back to stardust and cosmological evolution...
A question: does anybody know if the building blocks of the atoms in the universe have been around since the beginning of time? I've heard of virtual particles, particles that pop in and out of existence, but could they ever stabilise and form something more complex?
:foottap:
What are you doing?
Please bring it back.
It belongs here.
The cosmos, from beginning to end. Life and death for humans, Big Bang, and Big Crunch for the universe.
...OK, that probably sounded a little bit weird... :shifty:
But, anyways...
Please, just bring back the rest of it, here. Thank you.
Yeah I agree with Neil and it sounds magical enough to me. I want to be turned into a tree when I die (either by a coffin that does so or having one planted over me) so that I can contribute to the well-being of this earth by creating oxygen. Maybe you can tell them that's why people die?
Oh oh and another one. People who have more fun go out faster than people who don't. So people who die faster are like fireworks with a big bang to excite you and people who die slower are slow burning candles to light your way. (And by fun I mean they have more sex and more kids)
Last year, a 9 year old friend was killed in a horrific way, and I had to explain death to my children. We talked extensively about it, and how I wished for easier answers, like the sweet story of happily ever after in heaven, where we get to see all the people we've ever loved..... it would be so much easier and happier.
As it was, we all had to learn to actually just say good bye. Forever. I softened it by saying that we don't really know what happens after death, but that I think it's like sleeping, where we just won't know anything at all. It was heartbreaking and difficult, but they are kids, and they will (usually) accept what they are taught, process it, and move on. For better or worse.
Aside from that, we keep communication open and they know they can, at any time, ask a question or voice a thought, and we can talk about it. I think that helps too, knowing that they don't have to feel these big feelings alone.
As far as damage goes, I don't know. It's hard to accept that no matter how old you are. :(
xSilverPhinx, I wish your family, and this grandfather, the best!
Quote from: Magdalena on November 07, 2016, 04:39:45 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 11:43:42 PM
Sorry for having derailed your wonderful topic so far off the tracks, Mags. I've split it into a conversation of its own. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14760.msg340862#msg340862)
Back to stardust and cosmological evolution...
A question: does anybody know if the building blocks of the atoms in the universe have been around since the beginning of time? I've heard of virtual particles, particles that pop in and out of existence, but could they ever stabilise and form something more complex?
:foottap:
What are you doing?
Please bring it back.
It belongs here.
The cosmos, from beginning to end. Life and death for humans, Big Bang, and Big Crunch for the universe.
...OK, that probably sounded a little bit weird... :shifty:
But, anyways...
Please, just bring back the rest of it, here. Thank you.
Ok :worried:
Quote from: Apathy on November 07, 2016, 09:27:59 AM
Yeah I agree with Neil and it sounds magical enough to me. I want to be turned into a tree when I die (either by a coffin that does so or having one planted over me) so that I can contribute to the well-being of this earth by creating oxygen. Maybe you can tell them that's why people die?
That's a good one, Apathy :chin:
QuoteOh oh and another one. People who have more fun go out faster than people who don't. So people who die faster are like fireworks with a big bang to excite you and people who die slower are slow burning candles to light your way. (And by fun I mean they have more sex and more kids)
Sort of like stars, the big ones live fast, die young (they burn out their fuel faster than smaller stars) while smaller ones can last for billions of years more. 8)
(Good thing our sun is a relatively small star.)
Quote from: Dragonia on November 07, 2016, 01:50:22 PM
Last year, a 9 year old friend was killed in a horrific way, and I had to explain death to my children. We talked extensively about it, and how I wished for easier answers, like the sweet story of happily ever after in heaven, where we get to see all the people we've ever loved..... it would be so much easier and happier.
As it was, we all had to learn to actually just say good bye. Forever. I softened it by saying that we don't really know what happens after death, but that I think it's like sleeping, where we just won't know anything at all. It was heartbreaking and difficult, but they are kids, and they will (usually) accept what they are taught, process it, and move on. For better or worse.
Aside from that, we keep communication open and they know they can, at any time, ask a question or voice a thought, and we can talk about it. I think that helps too, knowing that they don't have to feel these big feelings alone.
As far as damage goes, I don't know. It's hard to accept that no matter how old you are. :(
xSilverPhinx, I wish your family, and this grandfather, the best!
Thank you for your reply, Dragonia. That makes a lot of sense.
This thread is confusing me..... :headscratch:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 07, 2016, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: Apathy on November 07, 2016, 09:27:59 AM
Yeah I agree with Neil and it sounds magical enough to me. I want to be turned into a tree when I die (either by a coffin that does so or having one planted over me) so that I can contribute to the well-being of this earth by creating oxygen. Maybe you can tell them that's why people die?
That's a good one, Apathy :chin:
QuoteOh oh and another one. People who have more fun go out faster than people who don't. So people who die faster are like fireworks with a big bang to excite you and people who die slower are slow burning candles to light your way. (And by fun I mean they have more sex and more kids)
Sort of like stars, the big ones live fast, die young (they burn out their fuel faster than smaller stars) while smaller ones can last for billions of years more. 8)
(Good thing our sun is a relatively small star.)
So space is not just a vast emptiness.
Quote from: Apathy on November 07, 2016, 09:27:59 AM
...
Oh oh and another one. People who have more fun go out faster than people who don't. So people who die faster are like fireworks with a big bang to excite you and people who die slower are slow burning candles to light your way. (And by fun I mean they have more sex and more kids)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F33.media.tumblr.com%2F7105b70f339678fa065779a2ef587131%2Ftumblr_mwmv8w3AWE1sgwecao1_r1_250.gif&hash=42b6ca7a08c3a82a4e29b446f759dee9c331a92f)
Quote from: Dragonia on November 08, 2016, 12:17:15 AM
This thread is confusing me..... :headscratch:
Me too...
You know what we need here? We need someone to contact: hackenslash
A Frood Who Really Knows Where Their Towel Is
Remember him? He likes to talk about this stuff. He's very nice and good at explaining things like; Has Evolution Been Proven?
~Just an idea... :shifty:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 07, 2016, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 07, 2016, 04:39:45 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 11:43:42 PM
Sorry for having derailed your wonderful topic so far off the tracks, Mags. I've split it into a conversation of its own. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14760.msg340862#msg340862)
Back to stardust and cosmological evolution...
A question: does anybody know if the building blocks of the atoms in the universe have been around since the beginning of time? I've heard of virtual particles, particles that pop in and out of existence, but could they ever stabilise and form something more complex?
:foottap:
What are you doing?
Please bring it back.
It belongs here.
The cosmos, from beginning to end. Life and death for humans, Big Bang, and Big Crunch for the universe.
...OK, that probably sounded a little bit weird... :shifty:
But, anyways...
Please, just bring back the rest of it, here. Thank you.
Ok :worried:
Thank you. :hug:
Quote from: Magdalena on November 08, 2016, 03:12:09 AM
You know what we need here? We need someone to contact: hackenslash
A Frood Who Really Knows Where Their Towel Is
Remember him? He likes to talk about this stuff. He's very nice and good at explaining things like; Has Evolution Been Proven?
~Just an idea... :shifty:
Invite sent.
Quote from: Tank on November 08, 2016, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 08, 2016, 03:12:09 AM
You know what we need here? We need someone to contact: hackenslash
A Frood Who Really Knows Where Their Towel Is
Remember him? He likes to talk about this stuff. He's very nice and good at explaining things like; Has Evolution Been Proven?
~Just an idea... :shifty:
Invite sent.
:lol:
That's great!
Could you also invite
Gerry Rzeppa? I would love to see fireworks. :tellmemore:
...and maybe a little bit of blood and tears. ;D