What's in the Bible:
(This stuff is actually in there)
In the bible, it talks about...
Categories:
Doing evil to good people:
God creating evil (Isaiah 45:7 and Exodus 32:14 and Micah 1:12 and Micah 2:3), God making people evil when they were born (Psalms 58:3), the Old Testament still applying today (Matthew 5:17-19), Christians don't have to follow the "law of the land" (1 Corinthians 6:12), God is a enemy of people who "Love the World." (James 4:4), kind words and morals are like "dirty rags" and "unclean things" (Isaiah 64:6), God killing good and evil people (Ezekiel 21:3-5 and Job 9:22), God telling people not to trust neighbors and friends and family (Jeremiah 9:4-6), God destroying people's wisdom (1 Corinthians 1:19), God calling inventors "whores" (Psalms 106:39), all human life is only worth a few dollars and cents to God (Leviticus 27:3-7), rich people cannot go to heaven (Mark 10:25), Jesus cares more about his feet than poor people (John 12:3-8), only 144,000 single men is going to heaven (Revelation 14:1-4), David dancing naked in public and God making others childless for criticizing it (2 Samuel 6:14-23), God making old men speechless for asking a question (Luke 1:18-20), God making other countries suffer for Israel (Isaiah 43:3-4), God calling foreign countries "wash pot" and that he will throw his shoe at them (Psalms 60:7-8), Jesus only teaching his word in certain countries (Matthew 10:5-6), People from foreign countries cannot eat with the Christians (Leviticus 22:10), God rejects starving people (Proverbs 13:25 and Proverbs 28:25), Jesus commanding people to eat him (John 6:53-57), God rejecting disabled people from worshiping him (Leviticus 21:16-23 and Numbers 5:1-4), Jesus making people blind (John 9:39), God rejects men with long hair (like Jesus) (1 Corinthians 11:14), God forcing men to eat dung and drink piss (Isaiah 36:12 and 2 Kings 18:27), God spreading dung in men's faces (Malachi 2:3), God punishing and sending all males to burn forever (Jeremiah 9:25), God gives good people nightmares (Job 7:14)
Lying:
God rewarding liars and killing people for believing in that lie (Genesis 20:2-3 and 1 Kings 13:14-26 and Ezekiel 14:9), God sending a lying spirit (1 Kings 22:22), God deceiving people (Jeremiah 4:10 and 2 Thessalonians 2:11), Jesus lying about going to the feast (John 7:8-10),
Stealing:
God commanding people to steal (Nahum 2:9), Jesus stealing from the poor to give to the rich (Matthew 13:12), Paul robbing other churches ( 2 Corinthians 11:8 ),
Hate:
Followers have to hate family members (Luke 14:26), Jesus NOT bringing peace but a sword (Matthew 10:34-36), Jesus telling a person who just lost his father "let the dead bury their dead" (Matthew 8:21-22), Jesus sending people to burn forever for not wearing a wedding garment (Matthew 22:12-13), David pouring out water that someone walked miles to get (1 Chronicles 11:17-19).
Children:
God dashing mothers and little children together (Hosea 10:14), God purposely giving little children testicular cancer (2 Chronicles 21:14-15), God hating some children before they were born (Romans 9:10-15), God forcing children to stab people (Judges 8:20), eating your children (Leviticus 26:29 and Deuteronomy 28:53 and 2 Kings 6:28-29), God forcing kind women to eat their children (Deuteronomy 28:56-57), sacrificing your children (Genesis 22:1-2 and Judges 11:29-39 and 2 Kings 3:27), spitting on your daughter (Numbers 12:14), Jesus killing children who curse mother and father (Matthew 15:4 and Deuteronomy 21:18-21), Jesus himself disrespecting father and mother (Matthew 13:46-50), Christian happiness comes from smashing little babies against the rocks (Psalms 137:9), God mauling little children with bears for making fun of a bald man (2 Kings 2:23-24), God killing sons of sinners (Isaiah 14:21 and Exodus 34:7 and Deuteronomy 5:9 and 1 Kings 11:11-12), God forcing children to eat s**t (Ezekiel 4:12-13), God beating children with a rod (Proverbs 23:13-14), God stabbing children if they become prophets (Zechariah 13:3), sending your daughters to be gang raped (Genesis 19:4-8), having drunk sex with your daughters (Genesis 19:30-38), giving your daughter away and making her marry her cousin (Joshua 15:16-17 and Judges 1:12-13), child prostitution (Ezekiel 23:19-21), God sending children to burn forever if their parents were not married at birth (Deuteronomy 23:2), God attempting to kill his followers for NOT cutting off the d**ks of little children (Exodus 4:24-26), little children that don't have their d**k cut off should be abandon by the community (Genesis 17:14), God starving little children (Lamentations 4:4) and killing young men who go to army (Jeremiah 18:21),
Women:
Christian men cutting women in pieces and sending them across the country (Judges 19:29), God commanding women to have sex with their husband's brothers (Deuteronomy 25:5-10), God forcing a rape victim to marry the rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Exodus 22:16-17), God stoning rape victims (Deuteronomy 22:23-24), God robbing people's houses and raping their women (Zechariah 14:2), God raising women's skirts (Jeremiah 13:22 & 26), God wanting women to have abortions ( Hosea 9:11-12 & 14 and Psalms 58:8 ), God making things difficult for pregnant women (Mark 13:17), God making daughters be whores and wives to commit adultery (Hosea 4:13), buying wives for 15 pieces of silver and barely (Hosea 3:2), God killing female and children idolaters but not men idolaters (Ezekiel 9:4-6 and Hosea 13:16), women are "unclean" after giving birth (Leviticus 12:2-5 and Job 25:4), women can't talk in church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35), women can't teach (1 Timothy 2:12-15), women have to wear coverings just like Muslims (1 Corinthians 11:5-10), David buying a wife with 200 d**ks cut off (1 Samuel 18:25-28), Jesus calling a foreign woman "a dog" (Matthew 15:21-26), God's men kidnapping little girls (Judges 21:20-24), God's angels raping and marrying little girls (Genesis 6:2 & Genesis 6:4), God kidnapping foreign women (Deuteronomy 21:10-14), God stealing women from their husbands (2 Samuel 3:15-16 and Jeremiah 6:12), God stoning women who are not virgins on their wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:13-21), God killing all the males and keeping the females as sex slaves (Numbers 31:17-18), God telling sex slaves to submit to masters (Genesis 16:1-9), God killing David's child at birth and sending his wife to be gang raped (2 Samuel 12:11-15), God killing Ezekiel's wife for no reason (Ezekiel 24:16-18), God throwing a javelin through a interracial couple and also killing 24,000 innocent people (Numbers 25:6-9), Nehemiah beating up men for marring foreign women (Nehemiah 13:23-27), followers have to marry whores (Hosea 1:2), God killing horses and saying evil men are like women (Jeremiah 50:37).
Murder:
God commanding Christians to stab people (Jeremiah 48:10), God murdering people "like sheep for slaughter" (Jeremiah 12:3), God killing people for complaining about killing them (Numbers 16:41-49), God killing people for NOT serving Nebuchadnezzar (Jeremiah 27:6-8), God killing people for going to Egypt (Jeremiah 42:17), God killing people for NOT killing everybody (1 Samuel 15:18-19), God creating war (2 Samuel 22:35), God killing 1 Million Ehiopians (2 Chronicles 14:8-14), God throwing innocent wives and kids into the lion's den (Daniel 6:24), God making soup out of human flesh and bones (Ezekiel 24:3-14), God killing your brothers, sisters and neighbors (Exodus 32:27-28), God killing people if there is more than 10 men in a house (Amos 6:9), God killing gardeners (Isaiah 1:29), God killing people for riding horses (Haggai 2:22 and Zechariah 12:4), God giving people leprosy for following his laws (Numbers 12:1-10), God killing people for following God's commands (Numbers 22:20-22), God killing people for going to church (Numbers 18:3), followers have to commit suicide (Mathew 16:25), Christians have to cut off body parts (Matthew 5:29-30), God killing disabled people ( 2 Samuel 5:8 ), God killing people for trying to help (2 Samuel 6:6-7), God killing people for turning around (Genesis 19:26), God killing people for mispronouncing words (Judges 12:6), God killing people for looking in the ark (1 Samuel 6:19), God killing people for calling God a "God of the Hills but not a God of the valleys" (1 Kings 20:28-29), God killing people for not forking over the money they made when selling land (Acts 5:1-10), God throwing innocent people off a cliff (2 Chronicles 25:12), God's angel killing hundreds of thousands of people (2 Kings 19:35), God killing people for eating bacon (Isaiah 65:4), God killing people for NOT striking prophets (1 Kings 20:35-36), God killing people for picking up sticks (Numbers 15:32-36), God killing people for making a "strange fire" (Leviticus 10:1-2 and Numbers 3:4), God killing people for working on a sunday (Exodus 35:2 and Exodus 31:14), God killing people for not washing hands (Exodus 30:20), God killing people when they are asleep (Judges 4:21), God killing people for NOT having children with his brother's wife (Genesis 38:8-10), God killing strangers (Numbers 1:51), God killing thousands because HE told them to take a census (2 Samuel 24:1-15), God killing people for kissing the son (Psalms 2:12), God trampling people and making their blood be on your garments (Isaiah 63:3), God forcing people to be drunk with blood (Isaiah 49:26),
Slavery:
Christians buying slaves from foreign countries (Leviticus 25:44-46), Christians buying slaves from within your country (Exodus 21:2-6), slaves have to obey their earthly masters (Ephesians 6:5 and Titus 2:9-10), God beating slaves (Exodus 21:20-21), Jesus beating slaves and cutting them into pieces (Luke 12:46-47), God turning your grandson into a slave forever as well as his future children because your child tried to help (Genesis 9:20-26), buying your brother as a slave (Leviticus 25:39-46), selling your daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:7-11), selling your daughters and sisters as slaves ( Joel 3:8 ), Priests can buy slaves to (Leviticus 22:11), God forcing slaves to put their hand on your crotch (Genesis 24:2),
Animals:
God sending innocent puppies to burn forever (Revelation 22:14-15), Jesus sending demons into pigs and drowning them (Matthew 8:28-32), Jesus robbing animals (Matthew 21:1-3), Samson catching foxes on fire (Judges 15:4-5), God's men eating horses and kings (Revelation 19:18), God destroying the environment (2 Kings 3:19 and Psalms 107:33-34),
I'm also using the KJV.
They changed some of these in newer versions.
I cannot justify it.
I think you'll get very little argument from the members of this site about the fact that the Bible is not a book of sweetness and light (neither literally, nor metaphorically as in Swift and Arnold's meaning of beauty and intelligence).
I hope that you will join in more discussions here. :blue smiley:
^ I agree; I think you would feel better about things if you just hung out a bit and chatted. This obsessive scouring for evil is stressing me out, and I'm not even the one doing it. Are you unable to stop? I believe there was a thread on therapy sources for atheists at one point, although I'm not sure if it made it to the new board.
I third. While references to specific verses may be nice, more worldly context would be appreciated. :)
Personally, I have no problem with him dissing the Old Testament. I think, however, that his interpretation of the New Testament passages is horribly skewed. That's fine, he was never here to discuss. I continue to assert that his claim about being taken to a "Christian" hospital and admitted against his will for being a non-believer is, at best, a parody, and at worst, totally bogus. But we'll never know, 'cuz he ain't talkin'.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 01:42:49 AM
Personally, I have no problem with him dissing the Old Testament. I think, however, that his interpretation of the New Testament passages is horribly skewed.
I remember we had a member once, years ago, who totally picked apart the Beatitudes as evil and loathsome (personally, I think they're rather nice) but at least he discussed it with everyone. I don't know where that post is, it probably didn't survive the Great Crash.
By the way, I think it was Kurt Vonnegut who remarked how odd it was that fundy Xtians always got so bent out of shape about the 10 Commandments not being displayed on public property, but never even tried to get the Eight Beatitudes displayed. It would have been just as much a violation of church/state separation of course, but why the favoritism? Esp. since the Beatitudes seem so much more on point for Xtians.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on August 04, 2016, 03:43:00 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 01:42:49 AM
Personally, I have no problem with him dissing the Old Testament. I think, however, that his interpretation of the New Testament passages is horribly skewed.
I remember we had a member once, years ago, who totally picked apart the Beatitudes as evil and loathsome (personally, I think they're rather nice) but at least he discussed it with everyone. I don't know where that post is, it probably didn't survive the Great Crash.
By the way, I think it was Kurt Vonnegut who remarked how odd it was that fundy Xtians always got so bent out of shape about the 10 Commandments not being displayed on public property, but never even tried to get the Eight Beatitudes displayed. It would have been just as much a violation of church/state separation of course, but why the favoritism? Esp. since the Beatitudes seem so much more on point for Xtians.
Christians would be much better served by just leaving the OT in the dust of history and interpreting the NT in the best light. Jesus was a good guy - you can always find things to criticize, but he went around helping people, never killed anyone, never instructed his followers to kill anyone, never kept a slave or oppressed women, etc. He's a much better role model than Moses or Mohammed or Joseph Smith. But Christians insist on dragging the OT into the conversation all the time, and that's where the real problems start for us. Just dump it and go with the new covenant, and love one another. Simple.
Hmm, I guess they'd have to take the scissors to a lot of Paul's scribblings as well.
Since the Old Testament provides the basis for supposedly substantiating the claims of divinity for Jesus, if one were to drop it then Jesus becomes just one of many many itinerant demagogues with delusions of grandeur.
Plus Jesus was very clear in Matthew 5:17-19 about keeping around the law from the OT. So clear, that it doesn't matter which translation you use, and I find it extremely odd that any Christian would not be following those barbaric laws. And in verse 19, he admonishes those that would teach that the law from the OT can be broken. And people go around all the time saying that OT law no longer applies.
I'm thinking whether I want to get into this pissing match that I've gotten into a hundred times in my life with no resolution. Awe, what the hell!
Here's the passage: Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."
1. Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets (OT). He came to fulfill it, and that's what he did;
2. He said they would not pass away until all is fulfilled. So, if Jesus fulfilled the OT, then it passed away according to his statement. Note, "till heaven and earth pass away" simply means that what he said is an eternal principle. It does not mean that the OT has to stay in effect until the end of time.
3. Paul said that the OT no longer applies because Jesus took it's curse upon himself. Thus, he fulfilled it by taking its punishment for all sin listed in it. Galatians 3:13 "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree", 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
4. The writer of Hebrews argued that the new covenant established by Jesus abrogated the old covenant. Hebrews 8:13 "In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
5. So, Jesus fulfilled the OT (that's what he meant when he said "it is finished"), and now the OT no longer applies.
Whether you believe in all this or not is irrelevant. If you are going to cite the New Testament, you have to take the sense of the entire thing. If Jesus instituted a new covenant, the old one no longer applies. It's that simple.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 06:04:57 PM
I'm thinking whether I want to get into this pissing match that I've gotten into a hundred times in my life with no resolution. Awe, what the hell!
Here's the passage: Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."
1. Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets (OT). He came to fulfill it, and that's what he did;
All of it? The end came already and no one noticed?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub2. He said they would not pass away until all is fulfilled. So, if Jesus fulfilled the OT, then it passed away according to his statement. Note, "till heaven and earth pass away" simply means that what he said is an eternal principle. It does not mean that the OT has to stay in effect until the end of time.
That wasn't the only criteria for removing one jot or tittle, Christians always conveniently tend to forget the "till Heaven and Earth pass" part of it.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub3. Paul said that the OT no longer applies because Jesus took it's curse upon himself. Thus, he fulfilled it by taking its punishment for all sin listed in it. Galatians 3:13 "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree", 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
So, whenever the bible contradicts what Jesus says always go with the person who is not the son of (and in many beliefs is), god.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub4. The writer of Hebrews argued that the new covenant established by Jesus abrogated the old covenant. Hebrews 8:13 "In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."
Despite Jesus saying very clearly that not a single thing should be removed from the law until Heaven and Earth are gone, some other guy comes along and says something different and you just accept it in spite of the admonishment in verse 19.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub5. So, Jesus fulfilled the OT (that's what he meant when he said "it is finished"), and now the OT no longer applies.
Except he didn't come to abolish it, and since the Earth at least is still here, not one jot or tittle should be removed, and lesser are them that teach otherwise.
Quote from: Ecurb NoselrubWhether you believe in all this or not is irrelevant. If you are going to cite the New Testament, you have to take the sense of the entire thing. If Jesus instituted a new covenant, the old one no longer applies. It's that simple.
I did take the sense of the entire thing, Jesus was as clear as he could possibly be, and admonished those who would try to "correct" what he said. Many Christians tend to forget about the "till Heaven and Earth pass" part. It's as simple as that.
Let me break it down for you: Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
On verse 18, "till heaven and earth pass away" the following principle will apply: "one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." The principle is eternal. But the principle at issue is "one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Once it was fulfilled, it passed away.
If Jesus did not fulfill the law, then he failed in his mission. But if he did, then it passed away, having been fulfilled.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 07:57:18 PM
Let me break it down for you: Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
On verse 18, "till heaven and earth pass away" the following principle will apply: "one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." The principle is eternal. But the principle at issue is "one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Once it was fulfilled, it passed away.
If Jesus did not fulfill the law, then he failed in his mission. But if he did, then it passed away, having been fulfilled.
Try to remove the context all you want, but it's really quite simple: keep the whole thing in context and stop trying pretend like it meant something else. I mean, it looks like Jesus was trying to prevent the very same thing you're trying to do. I'm not saying that Jesus didn't fulfill some things, but fulfilling some of the law, is not the same as fulfilling all of the law. That shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand. So you have to tell me, that everything was fulfilled, and there is nothing left to fulfill (which would mean that we're all sitting around here for no reason since god is done with everything), or you come to terms with the idea that there are things left to fulfill (like the end of times, the second coming and whatnot), but that would also mean that you have to stop doing what Jesus admonished you not to do. You know, the bit about going around telling other people that they don't need to follow all the old laws until heaven and Earth are gone and everything is done.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 04:06:52 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on August 04, 2016, 03:43:00 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 01:42:49 AM
Personally, I have no problem with him dissing the Old Testament. I think, however, that his interpretation of the New Testament passages is horribly skewed.
I remember we had a member once, years ago, who totally picked apart the Beatitudes as evil and loathsome (personally, I think they're rather nice) but at least he discussed it with everyone. I don't know where that post is, it probably didn't survive the Great Crash.
By the way, I think it was Kurt Vonnegut who remarked how odd it was that fundy Xtians always got so bent out of shape about the 10 Commandments not being displayed on public property, but never even tried to get the Eight Beatitudes displayed. It would have been just as much a violation of church/state separation of course, but why the favoritism? Esp. since the Beatitudes seem so much more on point for Xtians.
Christians would be much better served by just leaving the OT in the dust of history and interpreting the NT in the best light. Jesus was a good guy - you can always find things to criticize, but he went around helping people, never killed anyone, never instructed his followers to kill anyone, never kept a slave or oppressed women, etc. He's a much better role model than Moses or Mohammed or Joseph Smith. But Christians insist on dragging the OT into the conversation all the time, and that's where the real problems start for us. Just dump it and go with the new covenant, and love one another. Simple.
Cherry picking. ;)
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people cherry picking the good and leaving out the bad and the ugly but then it's kind of weird when people call the Bible "the word of God", because if the writers of the books truly did channel an all powerful and knowing deity then how could they get some parts wrong?
If part of the Bible is not for the ages then why assume that the NT will be as well?
Davin, the entire reason that Jesus instituted a new covenant was to show that the old covenant no longer applied. That is the clear implication of a new covenant. He fulfilled the OT according to his interpretation of it. Once the new covenant was instituted at the Last Supper, it meant the end of the old. That's the whole point of Hebrews - we have a new covenant, a new high priest, etc. You miss the forest for the trees with your hyper-literal interpretation. You miss the context of the entire new testament, not to mention the meaning of the new covenant.
I know that this will lead to another endless conversation. I knew when I started that it would end like this, but I decided to give it a try, anyway. I should have listened to my better judgment. I'll politely withdraw now. You did not convince me, and I did not convince you. Now you get to claim victory and tell everyone that I quit. Good day.
Interlinear translation (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5.htm) of Matthew 5, in case it helps at all.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 08:27:38 PM
...I'll politely withdraw now...
:(
Spoiler
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0K4fvyQnI0R7SN4A/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Recusant on August 04, 2016, 04:26:06 PM
Hmm, I guess they'd have to take the scissors to a lot of Paul's scribblings as well.
I always do.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 04, 2016, 08:27:38 PM
Davin, the entire reason that Jesus instituted a new covenant was to show that the old covenant no longer applied.
That is something people say to support ignoring the old law, but Jesus never says that is the reason he did it. In fact, he said that he has not come to abolish the law.
Quote from: Ecurb NoselrubThat is the clear implication of a new covenant.
Oh come on, that ridiculous, just because there is a new covenant, doesn't necessarily mean that old ones are no longer valid. That would have meant that only the last commandment counted because it is the newest and therefor the older ones no longer apply. You're going to need something more convincing than there being a new thing therefor ignore everything older than it.
Quote from: Ecurb NoselrubHe fulfilled the OT according to his interpretation of it.
How did he fulfill all the old laws? How did he fulfill each and every one?
Quote from: Ecurb NoselrubOnce the new covenant was instituted at the Last Supper, it meant the end of the old. That's the whole point of Hebrews - we have a new covenant, a new high priest, etc. You miss the forest for the trees with your hyper-literal interpretation. You miss the context of the entire new testament, not to mention the meaning of the new covenant.
Jesus tried his best to make sure that people would know that the old laws still apply. He did so well in this point that no matter which translation you read from, it looks like he tried to make it super simple... and yet, here you are and here many other people are trying to retcon what Jesus said to meaning something other than what he said. It's really impressive all that twisting and mental gymnastics.
The thing I don't get though, is that if something this clear can be twisted so much, then I can't see how anyone can anything about what was meant in the bible.
Quote from: Ecurb NoselrubI know that this will lead to another endless conversation. I knew when I started that it would end like this, but I decided to give it a try, anyway. I should have listened to my better judgment. I'll politely withdraw now. You did not convince me, and I did not convince you. Now you get to claim victory and tell everyone that I quit. Good day.
:lol:
The bible is a record of the history of good and evil, just as any other historical document. Good and evil came about automatically when evolution created a being that could comprehend the pains and pleasures that they lived within. Good is what is helpful and evil is what is harmful. History is a record of the phenomenon. What concerned the writers of the book is the good and evil perpetrated upon one another.
OK, apologies for the preaching but lets put this in biblical context of a different interpretation. The book ( this will be hard to understand for you I know) covers this phenomenon where it refers to---the tree of knowledge of good and evil. (some interpret as right and wrong but r & w do not apply in this case)
Consider-- (this is from the psycho Smurfs) There cannot be any good and evil without a "being" to comprehend or weight the effects of G & E, because the universe cannot be G & E to itself because it has no intelligence, until evolution creates the cogitative being.
So what is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This concerns the time of the Adamites who were natural persons and were no participants in civilization, where under one is subject to authority. (See Blacks Law Dictionary --- artificial person) Civilizations create the people they rule by removing them from being natural to what ever the authorities dictate they want them to be. The persons they rule are no longer living under natural G & E, because the authorities dictate/decide what good and evil is according to how they want to remain superior to the masses they are over. So, The tree of the knowledge of G & E is Civilization.
This was instituted by Nimrod, Quote from the book--as it has been said, as Nimrod a mighty hunter before the lord. What this means is- the people recognize that they have become like nimrod, the predator, who takes them from natural to his idea of what a person should be in accordance with his mandates--just as today, when politician decide what is good for their followers as the polititian see that they should be.
From civilized and onward the people become subject to what the government construes as G & E. Governments normally deal with right and wrong. But universal law does not create right and wrong because it cannot be right or wrong, and the universe can only be what it is. Only "a cognitive being" can create right and wrong from preferences to control the masses that follow government. That's to say, you are not you as nature created you. You are what the social mandates create, decided before you were born.
The tree of the knowledge of G & E is the same as Nimrod instituting civil government in his time, for peoples who weren't under civil authority previous.
All it amounts to is, instead of living under the G & E what naturally happens in the universe, one then becomes under the G & E as dictated by government in a social environment--and of course universal G & E still applies as can be seen that the planet still has earth quakes. So now, instead of putting up with just natural G&E we now have to put up with more G & E as mandates by government. The problem is, government creates more good then evil.
Bear in mind here, people don't war against people---People war against governments and governments war against governments, ---you're the fall guy. Smart eh.
Creatures that are not capable of their own thoughts, have a mind so clear, it's empty. Slumber comes easy for the sheep.
Seems to me MMc should look more at how certain old writings were included in the canon of "God's words" and others were not.