Quote from: Siz on May 25, 2016, 03:25:36 AM
(apart from when Tank called me a cunt - that was really hurtful...)
Yes, that pesky Tank and his hurtful remarks. There ought to be a law... >:(
Actually, and on a serious note, why is "cunt" such a bad thing to be called? Is it not just slang for vagina? "You are a vagina." "No, I'm not. I'm a penis. Attached to a guy."
...I just don't get it. I understand how being called stupid, fat, ginger or other insecurity-related things might hurt, but being called something you obviously are not..? A lesson in psychology for The Asmo, anyone?
There is not necessarily any connection between the literal meaning of a word and its emotional charge. On Fooplegloop it is a serious insult to call a fellow Whoople a boopoople, which literally means only the nozzle of an antenna sprayer.
Well, obviously...
I guess I should have spent more words formulating that thing. My question goes to the emotional charge of the slang word for vagina as much as to the percieved offensiveness of its literal meaning.
Basically, I'm looking for an answer to the following:
Quote from: His Wordseitherhavemeaningortheydontness...I just don't get it. I understand how being called stupid, fat, ginger or other insecurity-related things might hurt, but being called something you obviously are not..? A lesson in psychology for The Asmo, anyone?
...from whatever angle you may pick.
Why is being a ginger an insult? Seriously don't get that one.
As for cunt, if you call a woman that you're calling her a bad woman and if you call a guy that you're calling him a bad woman. Generally, the most insulting thing to be compared to is a woman tho to my thinking that too should be a compliment.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 25, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
Why is being a ginger an insult? Seriously don't get that one.
Witch trials or some such, I guess... I have no idea, just know that some people are insecure about the redness of their hair. My point is, if you
are ginger, you may be called that in a derogatory manner. After all, is that not the basis of all bigotry? Calling people what they are only in a way that implies that there is a problem with that?
Quote
As for cunt, if you call a woman that you're calling her a bad woman and if you call a guy that you're calling him a bad woman. Generally, the most insulting thing to be compared to is a woman tho to my thinking that too should be a compliment.
As far as my understanding of finer points of linguistics goes, there is an ocean of difference between "You're like a cunt" (comparative statement) and "You are a cunt" ("flat fact")
To use our ginger example; you can call
me ginger until you're hoarse. I just am not. So, in one ear, out the other. Notice how that has nothing to do with whether or not I'm secure in the hair color I DO have and indeed I might react differently about whatever-the-fuck-it's-called being used against me in a derogatory way. Well,
I would not bat an eyelid, so assume that the I here is impersonal.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 25, 2016, 09:44:23 AM
As for cunt, if you call a woman that you're calling her a bad woman and if you call a guy that you're calling him a bad woman. Generally, the most insulting thing to be compared to is a woman tho to my thinking that too should be a compliment.
But there are derogatory references to male anatomy as well (dick and prick comes to mind) and people are much less offended about the use of these descriptions of men. Why do women take it as so much more of an insult to be called a cunt then a man does to being called a dickhead?
And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't cunt more insulting in the US then in other English speaking countries?
I think in some cases wanker can come close to cunt in its offensive power. However, the comparison is not applicable to the question I raised because everyone wanks off, so that term is more in the ginger-example-category. (Relating to personal insecurities)
...Do women get called dick and such? Because you can call a guy a cunt. :???:
Quote from: Guardian85 on May 25, 2016, 01:46:27 PM
Why do women take it as so much more of an insult to be called a cunt then a man does to being called a dickhead?
Men seem to take more offense over cunt than dick too. As a point of comparison, calling a guy a "pussy" is considered insulting them too, albeit without the same shock value, but you wouldn't call a woman a pussy, that would come off as weird. Why one is worse than the other I can't say
Quote from: Firebird on May 25, 2016, 02:34:53 PM
calling a guy a "pussy" is considered insulting them too
=coward though, no? Because that would take it back to "ginger-class" insult.
It isn't, it can be used affectionately: "You marvellous cunt".
Nor is it just a term to return to a vagina, it is a bit like fuck. Its origin may by that but rarely used in that way, maybe if someone enjoys dirty talk then cunt will be used in that fashion similar to how people use fuck when talking about sex but outside of that usage it becomes a flexible word to add impact.
It's viewed differently in the US and Canada than it is in the UK and Australia.
Part of it may be the harsh sound that cunt has. Pussy is softer sounding, thus it's use for a "soft" man is easy to understand. That eliminates it for use against a woman, since it's been co-opted for use against men. Cunt is available and sounds harsher, more brutal, nastier, more condescending - a hard "c" beginning, a single syllable, and ending with a consonant helps. A bit of onomatopoeia, perhaps, as well - it sounds like what you are intending to convey.
http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/tim_minchin/prejudice.html
QuoteOnly a ginger can call another ginger, ginger
Well obviously, logically only a ginger can be another ginger so only a ginger can do anything with another ginger, they're probably the only ones that would want to anyway.
I suspect there's a bit of misogyny mixed up in the use of "cunt," for some anyway.
Quote from: Recusant on May 25, 2016, 04:21:22 PM
It's viewed differently in the US and Canada than it is in the UK and Australia.
This. We've had this conversation on HAF before, years ago.
You UK/Aus seem to use it as a catch-all insult without much real meaning attached.
In the US anyway, it's an insult with a misogynist sting, because you shouldn't want to be acting like a woman.
Quote from: Pasta Chick on May 26, 2016, 05:25:25 PM
In the US anyway, it's an insult with a misogynist sting, because you shouldn't want to be acting like a woman.
Interesting... Also, a bit... Well, archaic.
I never quite understood how anyone can be offended by a word. Words, in and of themselves are not offensive. It's a completely different story if someone is attacking another personally with perceived harmful words. People tend to have extremely fragile egos. Cunt, is not the only forbidden word that seems to instill such a sensitive and negative perception. Faggot, nigger, kyke to name a few.
Now, if some braindead fucktard is spewing hate filled bile that is peppered with these violating words, that is their right. Just as it is my right to think you are an idiot for doing so.
PC, I have not previously thought the term to have a misogynist sting. There are ladies and there are insufferable bitches who might well be labeled as cunts in the derogatory sense. The term is suggestive of the feminine gender but it certainly does not apply to all women or even a small segment of the female persuasion.
Many years ago I was the batting coach for a national championship caliber women's soft ball team. We had social gatherings now and then. On one such occasion, we were playing Blackjack and I had been losing to the lesbian dealer with regularity. I had a hand that totaled twenty so I knew that I could beat her. I lost. She had twenty and the push goes to the dealer according to the rules at the time. Having had a few too many glasses of wine, I exclaimed; "You miserable cunt!" The whole room burst into extended laughter. Truth be known that all of them knew that I loved and respected them. I never did live that one down. It is not really a bad word if you know and care for the one who is the brunt of the saying.
Quote from: Icarus on May 27, 2016, 01:44:02 AM
There are ladies and there are insufferable bitches
This right here, it just had to be quoted for truth.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 28, 2016, 11:13:29 PM
Quote from: Icarus on May 27, 2016, 01:44:02 AM
There are ladies and there are insufferable bitches
This right here, it just had to be quoted for truth.
I can go from being a lady to an insufferable bitch in about 3.5 seconds, maybe 4.5, around there.
Can anybody else, here, beat that speed?
Quote from: Magdalena on May 28, 2016, 11:45:49 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 28, 2016, 11:13:29 PM
Quote from: Icarus on May 27, 2016, 01:44:02 AM
There are ladies and there are insufferable bitches
This right here, it just had to be quoted for truth.
I can go from being a lady to an insufferable bitch in about 3.5 seconds, maybe 4.5, around there.
Can anybody else, here, beat that speed?
Not me, I need to work up to both states from a blase medium.
I can turn on a dime, but that usually involves a conscious decision. My emotions don't usually go deep enough for me to be able to switch extremes like that - there simply are no extremes to switch.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 28, 2016, 11:51:19 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on May 28, 2016, 11:45:49 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 28, 2016, 11:13:29 PM
Quote from: Icarus on May 27, 2016, 01:44:02 AM
There are ladies and there are insufferable bitches
This right here, it just had to be quoted for truth.
I can go from being a lady to an insufferable bitch in about 3.5 seconds, maybe 4.5, around there.
Can anybody else, here, beat that speed?
Not me, I need to work up to both states from a blase medium.
I think that's like the "I'm warning you..." --stage. I used to go
there, but I don't waste time on
that anymore.
:grin:
Quote from: Magdalena on May 28, 2016, 11:45:49 PM
I can go from being a lady to an insufferable bitch in about 3.5 seconds, maybe 4.5, around there.
Can anybody else, here, beat that speed?
Nope you really need to push me hard. If that happened and you didn't get the warning signs then you fucked up big time because I don't do half measures of anything. I still wont be angry though.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 28, 2016, 11:53:23 PM
I can turn on a dime, but that usually involves a conscious decision. My emotions don't usually go deep enough for me to be able to switch extremes like that - there simply are no extremes to switch.
Mine is also a conscious decision as well. I don't do it around children or old people. :nu-uh:
I don't like me when I'm angry. :shifty:
Quote from: Crow on May 29, 2016, 12:47:02 AM
I don't do half measures of anything.
What does this mean?
Quote from: Magdalena on May 29, 2016, 12:54:07 AM
What does this mean?
That something will happen to them. Nothing violent that isn't my style.
Quote from: Crow on May 29, 2016, 12:57:27 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on May 29, 2016, 12:54:07 AM
What does this mean?
That something will happen to them. Nothing violent that isn't my style.
Like what?
Like hurting their feelings?
Like, knowing what their insecurities are...and you stab them there?
Quote from: Magdalena on May 29, 2016, 01:00:30 AM
Like what?
Like hurting their feelings?
Like, knowing what their insecurities are...and you stab them there?
Nope, hurting feelings is easy and only really works on those that wouldn't be able to push me to the kind of levels required to make me act anyway. That doesn't really do anything except hurt emotions, if I hurt peoples feelings it is often without realising. There are only four people that have ever pushed me that far, two in secondary school, one in Uni and one when I was new to the working world.
Quote from: Crow on May 29, 2016, 01:16:15 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on May 29, 2016, 01:00:30 AM
Like what?
Like hurting their feelings?
Like, knowing what their insecurities are...and you stab them there?
Nope, hurting feelings is easy and only really works on those that wouldn't be able to push me to the kind of levels required to make me act anyway. That doesn't really do anything except hurt emotions, if I hurt peoples feelings it is often without realising. There are only four people that have ever pushed me that far, two in secondary school, one in Uni and one when I was new to the working world.
I thought this made me an
insufferable bitch:
QuoteLike, knowing what their insecurities are...and you stab them there?
I guess there are levels of
insufferable bitches. :sad sigh:
Here I was, bragging about how fast I could go from a to b., when what really mattered was the intensity of it. :sad sigh:
Quote from: Magdalena on May 29, 2016, 12:47:45 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 28, 2016, 11:53:23 PM
I can turn on a dime, but that usually involves a conscious decision. My emotions don't usually go deep enough for me to be able to switch extremes like that - there simply are no extremes to switch.
Mine is also a conscious decision as well. I don't do it around children or old people. :nu-uh:
I don't like me when I'm angry. :shifty:
I don't like me when I turn into a dick/prick/asshole/some other nether region demon. But, we all exhibit our lower nature at time. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Quote from: Magdalena on May 29, 2016, 01:00:30 AM
Like, knowing what their insecurities are...and you stab them there?
That there is something I may very well do. Wait for a good opportunity and hack away. I do, however, give some clear cease and desist signals long before I act, so technically, you can stab me in the back "by accident" (a single moment-of-opportunity event) and walk away smug. On the other hand, when infringing upon my interests is a process... Well, I have NO concept of proportional response. I'll fuck you over as hard as I am able within my moral limits.
There is a redeeming quality here though. I do "respect the game". Thus, if walking over my metaphorical corpse is a recognized part of it, the above yields to conduct within the acceptable parameters of that particular competition.
...Derailed me own derail. I like it. 8)
I'm a cunt. If anybody has a problem with that, they're a cunt too, and they can fuck off.
I'll defer to my old mucker, arch-cunt Goldenmane, and the result of some exchanges we had years ago at RDF:
"One of the views shared by many who have posted on the relevant forums over the years was formulated by the user Calilasseia thusly: 'Bad ideas exist to be destroyed.' Indeed, this is the central thread that links this collection of writings, disparate as they may otherwise be.
Many of the essays included in this collection also share another similarity: the use of what may be considered, by some, profanity. Also know as swearing, cursing, and foul or bad language.
The often liberal use of expletives in some of these tracts may appear gratuitous and immature, even offensive. The reader is advised to bear in mind the aforementioned notion: bad ideas exist to be destroyed, in this case formulated as what has become known as Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse, commonly referred to as Rule #3: swear a lot.
Rule #3 was formulated initially as a joke, the point being that it serves as a way of distinguishing between those conversational opponents who were capable of addressing an argument intellectually, rationally, and logically, and those who were governed entirely by emotion. The key here is to realise that those governed by emotion would be those who would be offended (and loudly) by the use of words like fuck, cunt, shit, piss, arsehole, and sundry others. Such people would tend to leave a debate or conversation in high dudgeon, complaining loudly about the language their interlocutors were using. So much the better. There is little worth in continuing a discussion with someone who bases their entire position on emotion, and it's all to the good if they can be induced to chuck the shits and storm out, since it starkly highlights the intellectual vacuity of their entire approach.
What started as a jest (as all good jests do) rapidly developed more profound ramifications. For example: the words used to refer to swearing (including, tellingly, "swearing") reveal an unholy (or perhaps overly holy) reliance upon certain magical notions. 'Cursing', 'swearing', 'using God's name in vain' and the like all rest upon the rather quaint and somewhat silly notion that words have magical power. Whilst words do have power (the power to communicate ideas being primary), there's no evidence whatsofuckingever to suggest that incantations can make shit magically happen.
The idea that certain combinations of sounds (always culturally determined) can have inherent magically 'bad' properties is, to be blunt, bullshit. Most such words from around the world's different cultures are related to one of two things: fucking and shitting. Why these two essential processes for a complex sexually-reliant species that needs to eat should become the 'bad' words I'm not going to debate here. Suffice it to say that from a rational modern perspective, it's a little bizarre. But I'll work with it. It's my fucking medium, after all.
Bad ideas exist to be destroyed. The notion that words can inherently be bad is a bad idea. It springs from primitive beliefs about words being magical. Similarly, the intellectual coward's retreat from debate under the banner of 'my opponent swears' is rooted in the same notion. It also provides them with an easy escape route, and in this sense it is offered up as a service: allowing them to exit with the personal sense that they have retained the moral high ground, even if they have been unable to support their own arguments.
What renders the whole notion of 'bad language' truly ludicrous is that words are just effectively arbitrary collections of sounds (or letters, if written down). Start with 'c'. Add a 't': 'ct'. Add a 'u': 'cut' Wow, we now have a word that we recognise. There's nothing bad about the word, just as there's nothing bad about the letters it is made from. Now add an 'n': cnut.
That should, properly, be rendered Cnut, it being a proper noun. Chap is famous for arguing with the sea, or something. The sea, of course, ignored him, because words aren't actually magical. Changing Cnut around a little makes him a cunt. Where's the fucking magic?
In writing this, I have been reminded to add a little explanation of Rules 1 and 2. An explanation was posted some time ago. Here it is, and I hope the reader gains some understanding:
Sweet juicy Mohammed on Satan's glistening prong, you want comedy and explanations on demand?
I can give you the explanation, but I can't guarantee the comedy. I've got stage fright, and as everyone knows stage fright causes the balls to shrink and try to hide in the body, and as everyone also knows the balls are where the comedy glands reside, which is why (as Hitchens so rightly pointed out) women aren't funny. Unless they have balls. Evidence of this, in case anyone was wondering, is there to be seen. Just look at the scrotum. Take a long, hard (or flaccid, depending on your proclivities) look, and tell me that the scrotum isn't fucking funny. You'll be lying if you say it isn't. The scrotum is like the world's most honest packaging. It says, "Here be comedy. There is literally and categorically nothing as funny as this.
It's an evolutionary thing. Dick Dawkins even touched on it (well, there's really no other way to put it, is there? No quote mines, please, I won't have it said that Dick touches his, or any other, scrotum any more than strictly necessary) in The Greatest Show on Earth, where he points to the completely ridiculous path the vas deferens takes. It's fucking bizarre and surreal. Any designer who came up with that and was still responsible for the entirety of everything is a joker on a colossal scale. It's the only possible answer that isn't pants-shittingly terrifying. And as it is, it's minor-incident-of-bowel-incontinence scary. You wonder why God is referred to as He? It can only be because the fucker's a sadistic practical joker, with testicles the size of... well, how do you measure such balls?
The other option is that He doesn't exist, of course, but some well-known people have, historically, bet against that.
Anyway, enough (as the sage said) of that guff: Rule #3. The strict name of said rule is Goldenmane's 3rd Rule of Public Discourse, and stackhishash has quoted the short form verbatim: Swear a lot. The reasons are, I hope, obvious, and need no further explanation. Rules #1 and #2 are both the same as, and yet separate from, Rule #3. Simply put, Rule #1 dictates the rules (whilst being identical to Rule #3) and Rule #2 fucks about in the background somehow making globules of retarded effluent seem to mean something that gives Rule #3 its efficacy.
To put it another way, Rules 1,2 and 3 are the same goddamn rule, but invoking Rule #3 is all that is needed to have a cock-suckingly good life, and if you fucking well understand Rule #3, you'll stop asking for explanations. Fuck."
Hope that's clear.
I sort of agree.
"Sort of" is only because I see the so-called bad language as a non-issue when I speak or when others speak to me. Do I use words some find offensivve as tools? Yes. But not with the intent of getting rid of my oponent, but rather in order to convey my message in the preferred way. They are words. That's what they are for.
Can I formulate myself without the use of such words? Absolutely. Do you want me to? Fuck off; I don't care.
This is great! It's like a Cunt Anonymous Meeting. :smilenod:
I said, "Hello, I'm Magdalena, and I can become a cunt very fast." Then, The Asmo said, "Hello, my name is The Asmo, and I can become a cunt whenever I want to." Then, BCE said, "Hello, my name is BCE, I take advantage of the "blasé medium." Then, Crow said, "Hello, my name is Crow, he looked around the room and said,
"Something will happen to them..."
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F45.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mc9ky20zfv1rvv9gno1_500.gif&hash=637c4a8d6a46d4f994c701299c71fbbcb6dae518)
...And he left the room.
Then, Ecurb Noselrub said, "Hello, my name is Ecurb Noselrub and I become a region demon." He recommended, wash, rinse, and repeat.
The Asmo raised his hand again and said, "Yes, attack the heart, their feelings and insecurities!" Hackenslash said, "Hello, my name is hackenslash, and I'm a cunt. If anybody has a problem with that, they're a cunt too, and they can fuck off." He attacks the brain and bad ideas, destroys them, and pulverizes them.
This has been a productive meeting. Next week we can discuss:
Penis and scrotum envy, and other things we need to be funny.
Now, let's hold hands...
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/92/f4/35/92f435617a5b30c45578fef7f1ffce04.jpg)
Amen.
Quote from: Magdalena on May 29, 2016, 10:04:12 PM
Then, The Asmo said, "Hello, my name is The Asmo, and I can become a cunt whenever I want to.
Nono, His gestalt personality is... Cunty. He can, however, turn "mainstream" at will.
In 'The Vagina Monologues' the word 'cunt' is reclaimed because the writers were offended that the word was used as an insult at all.
^^^That was curiously eloquent post Hack.
Quote from: Icarus on May 30, 2016, 02:17:17 AM
^^^That was curiously eloquent post Hack.
He
is very eloquent, isn't he? He's also very 'down to earth'. :tellmemore:
Hack said: "It's an evolutionary thing. Dick Dawkins even touched on it (well, there's really no other way to put it, is there? No quote mines, please, I won't have it said that Dick touches his, or any other, scrotum any more than strictly necessary) in The Greatest Show on Earth, where he points to the completely ridiculous path the vas deferens takes. It's fucking bizarre and surreal. Any designer who came up with that and was still responsible for the entirety of everything is a joker on a colossal scale. It's the only possible answer that isn't pants-shittingly terrifying. And as it is, it's minor-incident-of-bowel-incontinence scary. You wonder why God is referred to as He? It can only be because the fucker's a sadistic practical joker, with testicles the size of... well, how do you measure such balls?"
I'd be more inclined to take seriously criticisms of the body's architecture from someone who had himself designed a functioning dick-n-balls, complete with orgasm, ejaculation, and life-giving powers.
That being said, I accept evolution and am not a modern-day IDer. Just seems like criticisms of the path of the vas deferens is sort of like me, whose greatest architectural achievement was to design and build a playhouse for my grandkids, criticizing the plumbing system in the Burj Khalifa.
Drunk poster - please ignore. Deleted now, move along...
Quote from: Siz on May 30, 2016, 09:58:06 PM
Drunk poster - please ignore. Deleted now, move along...
:(
I could use a laugh. :P