Happy Atheist Forum

Who here has served in the military?

If at all possible, I would that this did not become another Iraq war discussion.

I have and am still serving. 18 years now.

I'd have likely served if it weren't for a severe heart condition. I have three generations of Army behind me.

My dad was in the Army, his dad was in the Air Force and Navy, and his dad was in something. I'll most likely join the Army or Air Force when I can.

If ever, EVER I'll serve in any kind of armed forces, I'll be a merc. No fighting for a flag for me, thank you very much. If I fight, I fight for coin  

I served in the U.S. Army as an Aviation officer. Flew those beautiful old UH-1H (Hueys), AH-1G (Cobras), and OH-58 (Kiowas). 1983-1989. My dad was a WWII U.S. Navy fighter pilot in the Pacific Arena, and then a catapult officer on the U.S.S. Lake Champlain in Korea. Flying was in our family for the past 75 years, as many family members fly or flew professionally or for fun. My brother is a retired U.S. Army Ranger (Infantry officer).

I didn't serve in the army. There were too many boys of my age to choose from, so that they decided to skip me.

I've looked into serving in the RAF. My step-father is a contract stress engineer who has worked for various companies on the design of both military and commercial planes (eg. the Airbus A380) so through that I've developed quite an interest in piloting. Unfortunately, my eye-sight is too poor for the RAF (I'm ridiculously short-sighted) so, when I'm sure that my eyes aren't going to get any worse, I'm getting laser eye surgery and trying again:) I want to have a go on one of these puppies some day:

http://www.eurofighter.com/

That thing is a real monster.

I do not, nor have I ever.  I briefly considered entering the Naval Academy out of high school, but I really didn't see myself committing to a military life.  I know a lot of people find the structure of the life to be a desirable thing, but I did not.  Its not that I'm unpatriotic -- I'm just really damned independent.  I think I had enough sense to understand that if I wasn't fully committed to the idea that it would not work out for me.

Anyway, I will always have a measure of respect for the people that serve (and that have served).  I guess it just wasn't my cup of tea.  Plus, my family has no background of military service, which seems to be a strong motivator for those who do choose to enter the military.

Not serving comes with its own emotional baggage --- namely guilt.  Everyone in Iraq is getting shot at while I enjoy all the benefits of being American without assuming much of the risk.  Contemplating this reality doesn't really make me happy.

When I graduated in 2000, I debated going into the armed forces before college. Looking back, I'm rather happy I decided against that. Besides, I tend to have a problem with authority.  :-)

Quote from: "SteveS"Not serving comes with its own emotional baggage --- namely guilt.  Everyone in Iraq is getting shot at while I enjoy all the benefits of being American without assuming much of the risk.  Contemplating this reality doesn't really make me happy.

There is absolutely no reason to feel any guilt, SteveS.

It's called a volunteer force for a reason.

We simply chose different career paths.

I second Mikey's message to you, Steve. No reason to feel guilty. I understand that people do feel that way, but it is absolutely ok to not have served. Like Mikey said, it's (thankfully for now) an all volunteer service.

I was in the Air Force from 1970-1973  Viet Nam Vet 2 tours

In the interest of fairness...six years active duty Navy, four years Virginia Army National Guard (13F), and seven years naval reserve to include a one year deployment in Baghdad. (Yeah, I'm a little indecisive.)

Does marriage qualifies as military  service or it’s just considered merely a drill for it?

Quote from: "Lexxvs"Does marriage qualifies as military  service or it’s just considered merely a drill for it?

The opposite, I think. The military is a drill for marriage  

Quote from: "Asmodean"The opposite, I think. The military is a drill for marriage  lol. I mean, INTO the Army. Spartans new it best.  

I would love to be a Pilate in the Salvation Air Force, but I can never find their phone number.  

here serving the military is a a law. Boys go to the army as soon as the finish highschool, for 2 years. Girls of course miss all the fun and go get trained how to take care of people. I still didnt "serve" my time cause I had an excuse I was studying.

I just got out back in February.

I was poor white trash convinced that I needed to go to college but had no work experience and not overly personable, who got a call from an Army recruiter when I was wondering just what the hell I was going to do after High School.

So from 2000-2004 I was an enlisted combat engineer in the army  Went to basic training expecting to be infantry with explosives, got to my first duty station and I was stuck on a very large, very old, very broken tank (did I mention that I had gotten my driver's license about three weeks before shipping to basic and had absolutely no training or experience as a mechanic?).  Oddly enough there was a bit of racism involved in the decision as to which platoon I was being assigned to, a story for another time perhaps (which turned out to be kinda pretty funny story after I heard it).  

So I went from expecting to be an infantry guy with demolitions to a half assed mechanic.  I did well enough that people gave me my instructions and left me the hell alone most of the time, so I guess it worked out.  Sent to invade Iraq in 2003   , survived a few near hits without a scratch, got out in early 2004 (YAY for having about 70 days of leave saved up).  Moved in with the missus, impressed her mother by cooking and washing dishes, started school and outlasted the IRR recall window.

No, I did not serve in the military and never will. I will discourage my children from serving.  I leave military folks to their own world, which has nothing to do with mine. Everyone needs their little hobbies, I guess.

I haven't. Both of my grandfathers were in the Army, my uncle was in the Navy, and my brother-in-law is Army.

I don't think I could do it

My grandpa served in WW2. I interviewed him for a 4th grade project... I didn't understand a thing...

I actually considered joining the army (mind you I'm 16, I've thought about everything). It stuck for while, but it's not for me. I hate war, but I have the upmost respect for those who serve.

Quote from: "Loffler"No, I did not serve in the military and never will. I will discourage my children from serving.  I leave military folks to their own world, which has nothing to do with mine. Everyone needs their little hobbies, I guess.

I personally don't encourage anybody to enlist.  You'd be surprised how many people get uber defensive when you try and tell them what they're in for.  You'd think they would want advice and experiences from people that have been there and done that.  Nope, they know everything from talking to their recruiter.  I have a friend now, just enlisted in the army and seems to think she'll be advanced to E-6 by her two year mark.  She claims that type of advancement is guaranteed in her contract.  It's bullshit, but she just gets pissed when I tell her.  My niece, the Navy paid for her college and told her she only owes them 4 years.  That's a lie.  All Officer commissions are at least 8 years active duty when they pay for your school.  More depending on what designator you choose.  Did she listen to me?  Hell no.  I definitely won't be encouraging my son.  I suffered enough while I was in, I don't want that life for him.

Quote from: "EvolutionCalling"I personally don't encourage anybody to enlist.  You'd be surprised how many people get uber defensive when you try and tell them what they're in for.  You'd think they would want advice and experiences from people that have been there and done that.  Nope, they know everything from talking to their recruiter.  I have a friend now, just enlisted in the army and seems to think she'll be advanced to E-6 by her two year mark.  She claims that type of advancement is guaranteed in her contract.  It's bullshit, but she just gets pissed when I tell her.  My niece, the Navy paid for her college and told her she only owes them 4 years.  That's a lie.  All Officer commissions are at least 8 years active duty when they pay for your school.  More depending on what designator you choose.  Did she listen to me?  Hell no.  I definitely won't be encouraging my son.  I suffered enough while I was in, I don't want that life for him.

I agree and can attest to what EvolutionCalling says.  Don't feel the need to tiptoe about with your views on the military on my account.

I was in the Navy.

Quote from: "EvolutionCalling"

Quote from: "Loffler"No, I did not serve in the military and never will. I will discourage my children from serving.  I leave military folks to their own world, which has nothing to do with mine. Everyone needs their little hobbies, I guess.

You'd be surprised how many people get uber defensive when you try and tell them what they're in for.

No, I wouldn't be surprised that people who thought the military was a good idea also get defensive when challenged on it. The military exploits vulnerabilities of humanity: youthful naivete and aggression, longing for adventure or redemption. Also, signing up for the military is a terrifying, potentially lethal commitment. I'd probably be defensive about being told I was duped too.

Just tell your friends "if you ever want to desert, you can hide out at my place."

I'm curious... are there any military officers here which, for their lack of faith, were ostracized or shunned or mistreated in any way? The recent case in the news about the atheist soldier has me a bit concerned.

Quote from: "Willravel"I'm curious... are there any military officers here which, for their lack of faith, were ostracized or shunned or mistreated in any way? The recent case in the news about the atheist soldier has me a bit concerned.

Nope. When I was still a military officer, I was also still a christian, so didn't have this kind of issue. I didn't personally see it happen to anyone either, but I would guess that it was a problem with some people.

Quote from: "EvolutionCalling"I have a friend now, just enlisted in the army and seems to think she'll be advanced to E-6 by her two year mark.  She claims that type of advancement is guaranteed in her contract.  It's bullshit, but she just gets pissed when I tell her.

Ever heard of the CASP? E-6 in two years is not only possible, but highly likely. However, if she's active, you're right, she probably won't make 6 in 2 years. Even coming in as an E-4, and getting promoted in secondary zone, she'd need 48 months Time in Service and 5 months Time in Grade. Guess she should have read her contract.

Quote from: "EvolutionCalling"My niece, the Navy paid for her college and told her she only owes them 4 years.  That's a lie.  All Officer commissions are at least 8 years active duty when they pay for your school.  More depending on what designator you choose.

You are just talking about the Navy here, right? It's not that way in all branches. Everyone gets a Mandatory Service Obligation (MSO) of 8 years. Officers, Warrants, Enlisted, it doesn't matter. But, your MSO is not the same as your contractual obligation. Each branch handles contracts differently.

The Army National Guard will pay for $50,000 of your college, and only requires a 3 year contractual obligation. They'll pay another $75,000 if you contract for another 3 years after the first 3. Still 2 years shy of 8 years, no?

Just as with buying a car or house, you need to read your contract. I don't have much sympathy with those that don't and then whine about how screwed they got.

Quote from: "Loffler"Also, signing up for the military is a terrifying, potentially lethal commitment.

So is signing up for law enforcement, fire fighting, medevac pilot, trapeze artist, etc... Hell, you have a better chance of getting killed driving to the supermarket than I do of dying in Iraq. And I was most certainly not "terrified" when I signed up.

Quote from: "Loffler"The military exploits vulnerabilities of humanity: youthful naivete and aggression, longing for adventure or redemption.

Longing for adventure is a vulnerability? I'm pretty sure it would be classified as a desire. Hospitals, Fortune 500's, Border Patrol, Customs, law firms, etc, use the same tactics for recruiting that the military does. The recruiter finds out what your wants, needs, and desires are and tries to sell you that part of the package.

I'll tell you what's naive, thinking that people join the military only for the four reasons you listed. The reasons for joining are just as varied as the people who serve.

Quote from: "Willravel"I'm curious... are there any military officers here which, for their lack of faith, were ostracized or shunned or mistreated in any way? The recent case in the news about the atheist soldier has me a bit concerned.

I'm not an officer, but I haven't had any problems. It doesn't really ever come up. We had a company commander who insisted that everyone pray during formations. One soldier went to the Inspector General, and the State Adjutant General (2 star) removed her from command.

One of my good friends, who oddly enough is a chaplain, is a fire and brimstone Baptist. He has never tried to convert me. He says it's not his place to do so. If I need something, I can go to him, and he'll help out. Of course, we've never discussed my feelings about military chaplains. I don't think they should exist. It amounts to state sponsored religion in my opinion. But, they can be useful at times.

Heheh.. sounds like somebody hit a nerve on ya  ;)
Of course, you're less likely to be blown into different parts of the countryside if you die while working on a trapeze.

QuoteThe reasons for joining are just as varied as the people who serve.

That's for sure.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"Heheh.. sounds like somebody hit a nerve on ya  :P

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"Four years active army and the only people I ever heard of who even came remotely close to getting their E-6 in a few years went ranger/spec forces while they were E-2.

There was a guy in my Special Forces Assessment and Selection course that came in an E4 (2 years college). He went to Infantry OSUT, and then Airborne. Then SFAS. He went to PLDC (WLC now) and got E5 right after that. Then he went to the SFQ course, which counts as BNCOC, and made E6 right after. Little less than a year and a half. Of course, promotions work differently now, and that was an SF track...

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"I wonder if the NG/Reservist GIBILL works the same as the Regular Army GIBILL.  My contract stated "up to xxx amount" of college money but after I got out and started using the GIBILL all of my paperwork says 39 months of tuition entitlement (reduced for every month of school I attend based on the number of class hours enrolled in.)

It's pretty much the same. I used the Regular Army GI Bill, too. But, my wife used her Guard Bill.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"

QuoteSo is signing up for law enforcement, fire fighting, medevac pilot, trapeze artist, etc... Hell, you have a better chance of getting killed driving to the supermarket than I do of dying in Iraq.

Sure, if you never leave the wire   :P

The point was, the Military is not the only dangerous occupation that people choose. and I was miffed over this statement:

Quote from: "Loffler"The military exploits vulnerabilities of humanity: youthful naivete and aggression, longing for adventure or redemption. Also, signing up for the military is a terrifying, potentially lethal commitment.

As though someone who has never served has some special insight into the minds of those who have. That statement is pure speculation, shows the poster's bias, and demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the motivators behind joining the military. And we accuse fundies of painting with a broad brush.

QuoteIf you were a truck driver, heavy equipment operator, medical specialist (x-ray tech, respiratory therapist, etc...), aviation mechanic, or a whole host of other civilian occupations that translate directly to an Army MOS, you can come in and as soon as you graduate Basic, you can be promoted to E4,

If you don't die.

Quotesometimes E5.

If you don't die.

QuoteWith the way Guard promotions work, you could make E6 shortly thereafter.

If you don't die.

QuoteOf course, with the way Guard promotions work, you could retire as an E4

If you don't die.

Quote from: "MikeyV"Well, yeah. I can't stand people outside an organization using dime-store psycho analysis on the members of that organization.

Oh, give yourself some credit. You're doing a great job standing it.

QuoteIf someone doesn't like an organization, that's fine. But one shouldn't presume to know the motivators behind joining said organization.

What's to know? If someone's value in their own life is such that they're willing to join the military, I trust their judgment. You say that's what your life is worth, I believe you.

Personally, my awesome health, physical fitness and intelligence (and humility!) will never come anywhere near a military recruiter. I consider this an extremely moral decision and I derive a great deal of self-righteous gratitude from it; I should salute myself. I will also try my hardest to prevent my children from joining.

Bah, no need to have such thin skin.  You have one opinion and so does everybody else, and not everybody's smells as sweet as your own  

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"Bah, no need to have such thin skin.  You have one opinion and so does everybody else, and not everybody's smells as sweet as your own  

To whom was this directed?

I was in the army for over five years. In fact I just got out in March. I did two tours in Iraq as a Tanker (name makes sense now I guess) My time in the Army were some of the best and worst experiences of my life. I'm glad I'm out but sometimes I miss it. Where else will someone pay you to blow shit up. I loved my job but I hated my employer. I never had much trouble with being an Atheist I just made sure anyone who might have had a problem with it knew that I woulden't take their crap about it, regardless of rank.

@ MikeV.. more like words of wisdom released into the wild

@Tanker.. Preachin' to the choir!

Thanks.

@ Jolly Sapper.

 

I was a Lithographer in the Navy (1996-2000).  Came out as an E-4, with a few medals, some commendations, money for college, an ex-wife and a high tolerance for whiskey.

My hubby has been serving in at the Air Force for 6 years now. While it does get lonely sometimes, It really is over all a great life. I mean our son gets to grow up in Japan. That alone is worth it.

Has anybody heard of the book "There are no atheists in foxholes"? How rediculous.

Quote from: "myleviathan"Has anybody heard of the book "There are no atheists in foxholes"? How rediculous.

Haven't seen the book... but there is a website about the atheists who ARE in foxholes:

http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/ (http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/)

I'm with already had it on my.

Quote from: "rlrose328"

Quote from: "myleviathan"Has anybody heard of the book "There are no atheists in foxholes"? How rediculous.

Haven't seen the book... but there is a website about the atheists who ARE in foxholes:

http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/ (http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/)

Thanks for the link. That's great.

Quote from: "Squid"I was a Lithographer in the Navy (1996-2000).  Came out as an E-4, with a few medals, some commendations, money for college, an ex-wife and a high tolerance for whiskey.

Is that even still a rate?  I think it merged with something else.  I got out as an E-5 after four years, but MA was pretty wide open.  Like you, a few medals, a couple feel good but overly worthless letters, and an ex-wife.  Whiskey was never my choice, I like Rum.

Yeah, they merged several ratings into the mass communication specialist rating (MC).  I'm a big fan of the blended whiskey like Crown or Seagrams.  Since the Navy I've become more of a beer lover and finding that sometimes quality is better than quantity.