Happy Atheist Forum

I was talking to my wife the other day about a Christian book she wants to read. Apparently it's about the communal living movement, which of course is absurd to me. And I told her that it's amusing for me to see Christians always present their ideas as "revolutionary". Because they attach such importance to everything. It's all life or death. A battle between good and evil. Whether it's war or finding a great parking space at the mall. We got into a bit of an argument, nothing serious. But she said that I was bitter and closed minded toward Christianity. Which is kind of true, but I'm not going to believe in anything that doesn't seem real. So, my question to you, friends: does my amusement in the absurdities of the church make me bitter and closed minded?

Bitter suggests undue hostility. I'd more say cynical. Close minded? Not in the least. Atheists are the very definition of open minded. We're also realistic, though. Open mindedness tempered with pragmatism means objectivity. Open mindedness tempered with fanaticism and inexcusable devotion means faith.

So you're cynical and objective.

I get the "closed-minded" accusation with my Christian friends every now and then.

You aren't closed-minded if you've reviewed the information (Christianity) and found it lacking.  You need not put every idea on the same level and refrain judgement to be open-minded.  It's okay to say that something is possible *but not probable* and, therefore, not worthy of your time.

This attitude goes hand-in-hand with the idea that you must "respect everyone else's ideas" on several forums on which I post.  Whenever there is a discussion, I have to state every time that I respect everyone else's *rights* to their own opinions, but I don't have to respect the *content* of said opinions.  Ideas aren't inherently sacred and beyond criticism just because someone claims them.

QuoteYou aren't closed-minded if you've reviewed the information (Christianity) and found it lacking.

That helps a lot. If you're truly close minded you don't even stop to consider an alternative view. You dismiss it without even thinking about it. I definitely do not fit in that category.

Bitter? Maybe. Cynical? Definitely. Hostile? No way.

I think Will's post sums it up perfectly, and I'm right there with you.

He does have a tendency to do that, doesn't he?  

What, may I inquire, is absurd about the notion of communal living? Christianity and other weird cults aside...

Good question, pj. Communism worked for hunter-gatherers for tens of thousands of years. Democracy is barely even 2500 years old.

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with it. I spent a little while in Colorado living on a co-op farm. It was great. Some really cool people lived there. I guess I have embraced the western nuclear familiy model, though. Plus I'm married and I have my own condo. Originally I was referring specifically to Christian communes. There's a great book called Beyond Civilization by Daniel Quinn that discusses the benefits of tribal life, which there are many.

QuoteI don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with it. I spent a little while in Colorado living on a co-op farm. It was great. Some really cool people lived there. I guess I have embraced the western nuclear familiy model, though. Plus I'm married and I have my own condo. Originally I was referring specifically to Christian communes. There's a great book called Beyond Civilization by Daniel Quinn that discusses the benefits of tribal life, which there are many.

Indeed. I read the book too and really enjoyed it.

I could probably see myself happy in a communal setting, but honestly, it would all depend on the level of closeness and who's in the commune with me.  My biggest worry would be privacy - I'm a private person; I'm comfortable spending large amounts of time by myself.  It doesn't freak me out or make me desperately lonely or anything.  In fact, some of my favorites times have been spent alone.  I remember one summer I took my little boat out sailing during a light drizzle.  The rain kept everyone else off the water, so I had the whole lake to myself (small lake in Wisconsin).  Although it was raining the breeze was light but remarkably steady.  The boat didn't sail fast, but it did sail, and very comfortably at that.  I just sorted of lounged in the cockpit and sailed all around the lake by myself in the rain.  When I got back, I couldn't wipe the grin off my face for hours.  I just enjoyed the absolute hell out of it.

So I guess, for me:  working together for mutual protection and benefit, plus communal bonding and feeling of brotherhood = good.  Sharing every space and every moment with other human beings = bad.

Quote from: "SteveS"I could probably see myself happy in a communal setting, but honestly, it would all depend on the level of closeness and who's in the commune with me.

I hear you there. Especially if you choose to make a lifestyle of it. You want to know for sure that it's a loving situation for your children.

I've considered a form of communal living.  It would only include my lovers, their lovers and any children or aging relatives in their care.  Then again I'm polyamorous.

QuoteI've considered a form of communal living. It would only include my lovers, their lovers and any children or aging relatives in their care. Then again I'm polyamorous.

Would the aging relatives be okay with that? It seems that kind of lifestyle might be difficult with the family dynamics.

With at least two of my lovers, their folks would be cool with it - they were flower children themselves.  The idea is that that's the degree of communal living I could handle.  I wouldn't be so cold as to not allow my lovers or my lovers lovers not to bring their aged parents or whoever to live with us if they needed to.

Quote from: "Willravel"Bitter suggests undue hostility. I'd more say cynical. Close minded? Not in the least. Atheists are the very definition of open minded. We're also realistic, though. Open mindedness tempered with pragmatism means objectivity. Open mindedness tempered with fanaticism and inexcusable devotion means faith.

So you're cynical and objective.

Wow! Right on!