Happy Atheist Forum

This is kind of the counterpart to the question I like to ask theists, define God.  Or rather, if God exists exactly what sort of God are you talking about and why should I give you time and money to support his lazy ass?

Can you define the God you don't believe in?

God's I don't believe in:

Any god that hails from Mt Olympus.

I suspect that is not that to which you are referring.  Basically, I reject all gods that claim to be invisible yet omnipresent--gods whose only evidence remains stories and myth.  Of course, this reminds me of that Star Trek episode where Kirk is zapped into a parallel dimension in which he is still on his ship, but invisible to his crew because he is living at a highly 'accelerated' rate. Well, I guess if it is possible on Star Trek then it must be a real possibility.

Quote from: "LARA"Can you define the God you don't believe in?

There are a lot of gods I don't believe in and they are all defined differently.  Are you wanting us to define what we understand to be the christian God or are you being more general?  If you are referring to the Christian God then there would still be many ways I could describe that God yet still not believe in it.  

I don't believe in a god because I have found no reason to believe in one...yet that's not a description, that's just why.  So, I will give you a short list of things which I find distasteful about various god beliefs...which are not necessarily reasons to not believe in one since there is no rule that god (as a creator) can't be evil.

1.  Creating beings which are sinful by nature then punishing them for acting according to their nature.
2.  The view that eternal punishment for finite sins is just.
3.  Describing women as being second to man.
4.  Promises of good afterlife for killing the infidels.
5.  Any god which lives on a mountain and seems to get enjoyment from bothering mortals.
6.  Any god that can allow creation to suffer terrible torments when it would be easy to take away that suffering.
7.  Any god which encourages war.

I can go on but the above seems to more or less cover all the general things I find to be distasteful about various god beliefs.

QuoteAre you wanting us to define what we understand to be the christian God or are you being more general?

I guess this is completely up to you, if you percieve God to only include the Judeo-Christian concept specifically, or if you personally include other notions of God that might be more nebulous, like say a conscious force that doesn't interfere with life, or something that might fit into scientific principles that some would consider god-like, but wouldn't fit into the traditional Judeo-Christian concept.

I think that many people's idea of what God is vary even between people in the Christian faith, but other people might have a different notion of a God than that.  So I am curious as to what your definition is so I can determine exactly what you personally mean by saying you are an atheist.

I'll guess maybe I'll answer the question myself.  When I say I am an atheist, I say that I reject the notion that God, who is just another character in a book to me, is more real than Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Underdog, or Ayn Rand and Fredrick Nietzche's three headed love child.  I could put my faith in any of those just as effectively and live my life by whatever standards I choose.  So for me God, with a capital G, is the Judeo-Christian God, the big old white guy with the gray beard on the Sistine Chapel ceiling.

As far as other god-like beings from mythology, I don't particularly believe in them except as exaggerations of real humans or metaphors.  Anything magical, that has no scientific explanation is out, too.

But what about other concepts, like Gaia hypothesis or other metaphysical weirdness?  Do these concepts sound equally ridiculous to you?  How about, let's just get silly here, the force from Star Wars?  So maybe you can't really levitate your X-wing out of the swamp, but what if there is a consciousness that arises out of life itself, in the manner that our consciousness arises out of our cells? What about Jung's notion of the collective unconscious?  Or any sort of collective consciousness at all?  I'm not saying this exists, or that I can prove it to exist, I'm just saying what if?

Would you personally call this God as well?

I actively disbelieve in all anthropomorphic sky gods. On the other hand, I am agnostic to some concepts of Pantheism, Deism, Tao.

I define god as something that has a personal identity and created the universe ( say personal identity because otherwise natural processes could be called god, and I don't think that's what the word god was meant to describe).

I do not believe there is a reason to believe something fitting the above description exists.  

The force, collective unconscious, reincarnation and other supernatural things are something separate from if I believe in a god or not....Theoretically, I could be an atheist with spritual beliefs. However, for the same reason I don't believe in a god I don't believe in other supernatural things....I have found no reason to think they are true.  I also wouldn't define them as god if they existed because I don't think they fit the definition.

How the Christian god is described has little to do do with why I am an atheist, but a lot to do with why I'm not a Christian.

The only thing I can say comes near a 'god,' I wouldnt dare refer to it by that way, is the motive for life.

Why does every species always have a built in motive to continue to live and produce off spring? Aside from the fact that a species will die if it does not reproduce... Death of a species is insignificant. Same with living. But all species have the unknown desire/instinct to live on.

That has always been a question that boggles my mind. For the last few years at least.

It's damn circular isn't it?  Species exist because they are driven to exist.  Why? Because they wouldn't exist if they didn't.  Existence, no matter how you slice, dice, puree, chop, incinerate or fuse it, is just a thing in itself.  Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only converted to energy, and vice versa.  Matter just is.

Interesting pics by the way.  What's your opinion on EV conversions?  I've skimmed a few blogs lately on Porsche 914 conversions and I think it's the coolest thing I've seen in awhile.

Just a link if your curious.  There are a ton of people out there who do these apparently.

http://914ev.blogspot.com/ (http://914ev.blogspot.com/)

Quote from: "LARA"Existence, no matter how you slice, dice, puree, chop, incinerate or fuse it, is just a thing in itself.  Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only converted to energy, and vice versa. Matter just is.

Solid thinking!  I agree with you.  The philosophers would, I believe, call existence itself a "causal primary".  In other words, it doesn't make sense to demand a causal explanation of existence, since the concept of causation only makes sense within the context of existence.  Existence, it would seem, simply must be accepted.  It cannot necessarily be explained causally.

Quote from: "LARA"It's damn circular isn't it?  Species exist because they are driven to exist.  Why? Because they wouldn't exist if they didn't.  Existence, no matter how you slice, dice, puree, chop, incinerate or fuse it, is just a thing in itself.  Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only converted to energy, and vice versa.  Matter just is.

Interesting pics by the way.  What's your opinion on EV conversions?  I've skimmed a few blogs lately on Porsche 914 conversions and I think it's the coolest thing I've seen in awhile.

Just a link if your curious.  There are a ton of people out there who do these apparently.

http://914ev.blogspot.com/ (http://914ev.blogspot.com/)

I mean deeper. Serious! Kinda like we know a shit load about gravity....but the origins of it? Gravity is a effect of a mass and its field will attract other masses by its field. But why will it bend light when light has no recordable mass? Why does time pass at different rates in different gravitational fields?


In the same way---why do species always have a motive to survive?  All it does it repeat itself---with exception to humans which change many life variables.

EV? Define. You essentially talkin about electric conversions? I things its neat but the battery market it expensive as hell. Batt's are getting better and better by the day, but the prices seem to raise proportionally with 'performance.' I think electric will eventually dominate the general commuter market.

I'd like one. But not if I have to give up my truck!

And yeah---I am putting my Toy/Lexus 1UZ-FE 4 liter aluminum DOHC V8 in my 77 Celica. It's ganna be bad-ass.

I don't believe in the God who supposedly created everything in a week a few thousand years ago. I don't believe in Zeus or any of that other (interesting) Greek Mythology. I don't believe in souls or ghosts or Karma or Satan... etc. etc. Maybe it was my science major, but I don't believe in anything unless you can prove it... and that includes the benefits of green tea (although I still drink it because me likey teh tea.)

Do you ever consider that history shows things not yet proven at a given time, later come to be known as facts, perhaps from your science major?

 And not believing in anything, How's that working for you?

 As far as not believing goes, I don't believe That's your picture.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"

Quote from: "LARA"Can you define the God you don't believe in?

There are a lot of gods I don't believe in and they are all defined differently.  Are you wanting us to define what we understand to be the christian God or are you being more general?  If you are referring to the Christian God then there would still be many ways I could describe that God yet still not believe in it.  

I don't believe in a god because I have found no reason to believe in one...yet that's not a description, that's just why.  So, I will give you a short list of things which I find distasteful about various god beliefs...which are not necessarily reasons to not believe in one since there is no rule that god (as a creator) can't be evil.

1.  Creating beings which are sinful by nature then punishing them for acting according to their nature.
2.  The view that eternal punishment for finite sins is just.
3.  Describing women as being second to man.
4.  Promises of good afterlife for killing the infidels.
5.  Any god which lives on a mountain and seems to get enjoyment from bothering mortals.
6.  Any god that can allow creation to suffer terrible torments when it would be easy to take away that suffering.
7.  Any god which encourages war.

I can go on but the above seems to more or less cover all the general things I find to be distasteful about various god beliefs.

I defer to Santayana on this one: "my atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own image, to be servants of their human interests." This describes approximately 98% of all gods I've ever heard of. The other two percent, while not necessarily covered by "my atheism" will be considered (and most likely rejected) on a case by case basis.

Quote from: "impuzzled"Do you ever consider that history shows things not yet proven at a given time, later come to be known as facts, perhaps from your science major?

Such as....???

I think it is safe to say anything that would convince a atheist is simply something that hasnt happened...right? It isnt happened because...??? 'Just not yet,' right?

All your [general believing public] god arguments are incredible in-specific.

Since there is no simple way to fast forward time we'll just have to wait eh? Why's god allow time variance?

Quote from: "LARA"This is kind of the counterpart to the question I like to ask theists, define God.  Or rather, if God exists exactly what sort of God are you talking about and why should I give you time and money to support his lazy ass?

Can you define the God you don't believe in?

 I would love to respond.

 People that give money to God are seriously challanged as, with devine power, omnipresence, omipotence, and the power of universal creation, what good is cash?

 The fact is that time and money given to a church is, IF properly stewarded used to reach people in need and the value there of I have seen many examples.

 As far as laziness is concerned, I may need to debate in that God spent the time and energy to save me from self destruction as well as the lives of many millions of fellow man and women. What have you done with the inwarrented and obviously unappreciated life with which you have been blessed besides bet your soul that your unfounded oppinion is somehow worth making public?

QuoteAnd yeah---I am putting my Toy/Lexus 1UZ-FE 4 liter aluminum DOHC V8 in my 77 Celica. It's ganna be bad-ass.

Ok, if you can do that,  I will worship you as the one and only True God!  :hail:

Oh HAF will have the scoop when it is done this summer!

Impuzzled, you said " And not believing in anything, How's that working for you?"

I think most atheists here have very strong belief structures. Ours are just self defined and based on principles of morality, reason, even spirituality. We don't need to be taught our beliefs from thousand year old scriptures.

But as for the actual purpose of this thread, I don't think you can define god.  Little 8 year old Timmy with his ant farm, is he not the creator, and all powerful over that ant farm? If those ants could, wouldn't they consider little Timmy a god. So then isn't the Christian god like little Timmy looking in on this one big ant farm we call earth? And if he can be a god over us, why not little Timmy over his ant farm? No one has yet been able to define to me what is and what isn't a god, and I therefore don't see a place at which to start believing.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fonwhoseauthority.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F10%2Fflying-spaghetti-monster.jpg&hash=ccca8b9f97245954a8a535cbe82bda9465d7226c)

Quote from: "Willravel"(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fonwhoseauthority.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F10%2Fflying-spaghetti-monster.jpg&hash=ccca8b9f97245954a8a535cbe82bda9465d7226c)

That, was absolutely hilarious.  

Specifically, I don't believe in the Christian God. The God that created everything in six days. The God that is to be feared and loved (anyone reminded of Machiavelli?) I don't believe in the God I used to trust my life with.

In general, I don't believe in anything supernatural. I don't believe in any god(s)/goddess(es).

Quote from: "ShimShamSam"Impuzzled, you said " And not believing in anything, How's that working for you?"

I think most atheists here have very strong belief structures. Ours are just self defined and based on principles of morality, reason, even spirituality. We don't need to be taught our beliefs from thousand year old scriptures.

Well said. Even without the Bible to tell us what "right" and "wrong" is, we have morals just like anyone. Just because as atheists we don't believe in "god" doesn't mean we don't believe in anything. Religion isn't the only thing you can believe in. I believe in hope, life, and yes, (as fucked up as we all are) mankind.

Quote from: "Willravel"(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fonwhoseauthority.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F10%2Fflying-spaghetti-monster.jpg&hash=ccca8b9f97245954a8a535cbe82bda9465d7226c)

That just looks so wrong!