Happy Atheist Forum

Every time I have a debate with my fellow theist friends I tell them that their believe system will be abolished. In not far future (not my life time but my children) Atheism will be the norm, as religion is today. A Presidential candidate believing in "God" will be ridiculed. As if today a candidate would say he believe in Zeus he would be ridiculed.
However this will only happens after a great War and the destruction of the world as we know it; that will cause a major change in how people look at “God" and how their "God" is incapable to help, protect them.
The Great War that will come on us (in my life time) will be not just a power, wealth but also an ethical, moral War. A War that at firs will divide us in a way you can’t even imagine but initially unite humanity.
Where atheism thrives from reason and logic, religion will fail in the future because it will be short handed in finding "Godly" answers to some of important questions that will arise.
The world will finally recognize that indeed the Earth is going around the Sun.

Sayin there will be a 'great war' is a little far fetched dont ya think?

Quote from: "filip3rd"However this will only happens after a great War and the destruction of the world as we know it; that will cause a major change in how people look at “God" and how their "God" is incapable to help, protect them.
The Great War that will come on us (in my life time) will be not just a power, wealth but also an ethical, moral War. A War that at firs will divide us in a way you can’t even imagine but initially unite humanity.

Hmm... I agree. Oil crisis, as far as I'm concerned, insures the downfall of civilisation as we know it, as well as many more wars in the mean time. And it's not nearly as far fetched as many might assume. In fact no. It's a certainty, is what it is. :lol:

Quote from: "filip3rd"Every time I have a debate with my fellow theist friends I tell them that their believe system will be abolished. In not far future (not my life time but my children) Atheism will be the norm, as religion is today. A Presidential candidate believing in "God" will be ridiculed. As if today a candidate would say he believe in Zeus he would be ridiculed.
However this will only happens after a great War and the destruction of the world as we know it; that will cause a major change in how people look at “God" and how their "God" is incapable to help, protect them.
The Great War that will come on us (in my life time) will be not just a power, wealth but also an ethical, moral War. A War that at firs will divide us in a way you can’t even imagine but initially unite humanity.
Where atheism thrives from reason and logic, religion will fail in the future because it will be short handed in finding "Godly" answers to some of important questions that will arise.
The world will finally recognize that indeed the Earth is going around the Sun.

^atheist prophecy?   How the hell can war unite and what are you talking about?

Religion will always exist in some from because humans will always wonder if there might be more to it than what we know though science and the more we know the more we realize we don't know.  Religion in general isn't harmful...it's the ones who make the beliefs of others their business who are harmful  (and it doesn't necessarily take religious beleif to fall into that category  :wink: )

Well, religion isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  'God' is in our genes and may even confer some sort of survival advantage which makes it persist in the genome.  Whether or not this can be overcome by continued evolution of the forebrain is anybody's guess.  A quick inspection of the world's greatest conflicts has religion right at the center so it would be of little surprise if the next great war is not somehow connected to it.  Many Xians are just buttering their bread for apocalypse.

This is not prophecy is fact by looking at the world. Only way you can avoid War and have peace is thru education. In 21th century while we have improved our high tech the illiteracy has not been proven. So this is why conflict comes to be. And the big man takes advantage of it. Religion divides us more than any border, Ocean, Mountain.

This division will eventually cause more and more hate, anger and eventually War. Of course the crusaders are not coming back but again looking at Amercian-Chrisitans I am not even sure about this statement. The Muslim Jihadist will not stop. Remember the only way a Muslim can go to heaven is to be as perfect as their Prophet Muhammad or the fast and easy way Martyrdom.

Oil, Water and many other resources will eventual become a very important more than it is today commodity. Global Warming and major changes to the Weather will cause problems that the world is not ready to deal with it. This is not prophecy is fact.

You see the problem is that average Americans are sitting in their living room watching American Idol and thinking this is the World. And the rest of the world or they are so poor that don't even care about anything but their piece of bread for that day or they are so controlled that can't even see the real world.

Is religion helping? No

Why should they, over 70% American believe they will see Jesus in their life time and that the Armageddon is coming soon and is not avoidable and is for seen in the bible and Quran.However they are ignorance of their own teaching since Jesus told to his aposltes they will see his return in their live time 2000 years ago.

No I am not a prophet with prophecy just an by stander watching how the Earth is being destroyed in the name of God, greed and ignorance. Mainly religious ignorance since 90% of amercian believe men is above anything else and God special creation and they have the ?God given right to destroy.

Oh and why I believe religion will be abolished? Because we will eventually recognize that the great big man in the sky is just an imaginary creation of men and that he has no power and we humans need to save our self from evil and not him. On the other hand the ridicules ideology of religion will eventually die down.

The reason I call it Great War because the destruction of it will be so devastating that humanity will not look into heaven for help but would be depended on each other for survival; it would be a new beginning of the human survival as one cannot even imagine.  When one recognize that God has done nothing to avoid it and will not they will more and more move toward reason and logic. Of course this will not happen in my life time however humanity will survive but God will not. Another reason is that religion is depended on ignorance, ignorance people make good soldiers and soldiers die easy in War. In the Great War great ignorance will be destroyed.

QuoteRemember the only way a Muslim can go to heaven is to be as perfect as their Prophet Muhammad or the fast and easy way Martyrdom.

I have not considered this...I think it is a good point.

What I have considered is that he who has the least to lose always wins.  If the Muslim extremists produce some type of WMD, then it might be enough to put an end to democracy world-wide.  No doubt many governments around the world would declare states of emergency should some sort of nuclear device be detonated in a major American or European city.

QuoteWhen one recognize that God has done nothing to avoid it and will not they will more and more move toward reason and logic.

No, this is what they are expecting.  Xians are apocalyptics....they are waiting for it to happen.  Then you get into sticky theological issues of pre- and post-millenialists.  

QuoteAnother reason is that religion is depended on ignorance, ignorance people make good soldiers and soldiers die easy in War. In the Great War great ignorance will be destroyed.

I seriously doubt war could ever erase ignorance.  It is as hard to kill as roaches.  Shit, and they have been around for half a billion years.  In fact, it could be a bull market for ignorance if reasonable people are killed in significant numbers.

Look...I don't doubt that the possibility of a large war is on the horizon; even in our lifetime.  However, it is not a certainty and to say that mass devastation would somehow wipe out religion is a gross misunderstanding of why anyone is religious to begin with.  The religious would see it as a test, as Armageddon, as their chance to allow themselves to shine to prove god's glory.  Religion actually thrives on destruction.  A small, yet recent example, Hurricane Katrina that hit the US gulf....the dooms dayers called it the wrath of god the optimists viewed the survivors and coming together to help their fellow man as the hand of god at work.

The average person is not religious for the rewards promised by their dogma nor because they feel a strong connection to god through what they think he does for them.  I think, the average person is religious because humans want to think there is something more to life than what it is because it's not perfect and they want to think they can live on past death.  If suffering would cause people to become atheists then we would expect athiesm to be on the rise in areas of Africa where people deal with absolutely terrible conditions on a daily basis...yet what's on the rise there?  Christianity; it gives them hope when there is no hope to be had.

If anything will ever cause religion to be absent from the world...it will be the result of us figuring out how to feed, clothe and comfort the tired masses without the need to look up to the sky in hopes of a fairy tale being true.

QuoteRemember the only way a Muslim can go to heaven is to be as perfect as their Prophet Muhammad or the fast and easy way Martyrdom.

That is a very extremem form of Islam...most are just trying to make their way thorugh life just like any other normal person.  The majority of them aren't much different than your average Christian or Jew...and if you think your average Christian or Jew is out to get you then you have an over-exaggerated view of what normal people think and do.  Religion itself actually isn't that bad...it's when people take it to extremes that things become dangerous.  The same can be said of any view.

I think that atheism is the norm right now. People just won't admit it to themselves.

In western society, the church or god has very little relevance to most people's lives. They live a secular existence and are not really aware of it. When Nietzsche said "god is dead,"
he wasn't just waxing poetic.

 :wink:

Quote from: "Smarmy Of One"....People just won't admit it to themselves.

In western society, the church or god has very little relevance to most people's lives. They live a secular existence and are not really aware of it. When Nietzsche said "god is dead,"
he wasn't just waxing poetic.

 :wink:

There is a lot of truth in that, Smarmy. I agree that many many people just don't want to admit that when it comes down to it, they are not really believers. But they are afraid of the alternative and haven't learned to deal with it.

Quote from: "LaetusAtheos"Look...I don't doubt that the possibility of a large war is on the horizon; even in our lifetime. However, it is not a certainty and to say that mass devastation would somehow wipe out religion is a gross misunderstanding of why anyone is religious to begin with. The religious would see it as a test, as Armageddon, as their chance to allow themselves to shine to prove god's glory. Religion actually thrives on destruction.

Too true. It's fair to say that mass devastation would almost certainly divide religious beliefs a whole lot more, too; amplifying the problem if anything.

Quote from: "filip3rd"This is not prophecy is fact by looking at the world. Only way you can avoid War and have peace is thru education. In 21th century while we have improved our high tech the illiteracy has not been proven.

Not sure I follow... I don't think religion has a whole lot to do with education or literacy. It's much more fundamental than simple intelligence: it's delusion more than stupidity. Some of the greatest minds in history have been theists.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Oil, Water and many other resources will eventual become a very important more than it is today commodity. Global Warming and major changes to the Weather will cause problems that the world is not ready to deal with it. This is not prophecy is fact.

Oil - Yep, can't argue there. If we haven't hit peak oil (in terms of overall global production) already in the last couple of years then it's estimated that we will do by the end of this decade - unless you go by government estimates, o'course, but they're all fabricates to make the problem seem less immediate and less severe. We are utterly screwed, in fact, and for once I agree: this is factual.

It's fascinating to think that civilisations come and go with relative ease, the average life expectancy being three to four hundred years, and the most common cause of collapse being depletion of vital resources; yet we, even as our end is in sight, still arrogantly assume that we're indestructible and can simply outwit basic geographical laws and everything will be fine. We assume that there can only be constant growth, as past civilisations have also done. Human culture today is the most complex, luxurious and sadly vulnerable that humanity has ever known and will ever know and more importantly, it's global. The whole world is tied together with trade, diplomacy and a shared need for the same commodity - whether enemies or allies - and it'll inevitably fall together, too. On the positive side, we are now living at the very apex of the species. A truly amazing period of history. I doubt we'll even realise just how amazing until it's over! Industry, large scale global trade, the internet, walking on the moon, a global population of around 6 billion, the kind of lifestyle that'd have any monarch, sultan or emperor of the past mad with envy et cetera? All of these things are thanks to the treasures we found in our basement 300 years ago & we'll never reach such a high again. It makes me feel extremely lucky to have been around to see it from right at the very top. On the negative side, though, people of my generation are going to have to survive as it rapidly collapses, and the ride down is going to be far worse than after we've hit the bottom. Wars, totalitarianism, genocide, mass starvation and worse are all a given and they'll be happening in places people - particularly those in the western world with their baffling optimism, arrogance and sense of indestructibility - would never have thought feasible. 5 billion of the 6 pillion people on Earth (a large majority at least) will have to die, simply because without our fossil fuel friends (or an 'energy slave' that matches it - which doesn't exist and no other even compares) the planet cannot sustain a population so large.

- rant over and done with -

Water - this isn't going to run out. Fortunately.

Global warming - I'm sceptical of this. I don't think there's a whole lot of evidence to substantiate it fully. If we are damaging the atmosphere to such a point that it'll eventually devastate the planet beyond recognition if we continue, though, and it wouldn't surprise me if we are, I don't think it matters. It's going to be a self solving problem (thanks to the oil thing I talked about above) and seems like a smoke screen to me. "Everything'll be fine so long as we don't use too much hairspray, recycle our beer bottles and make sure we arrange them into the right glass colour category as we do so. " I don't buy it.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Why should they, over 70% American believe they will see Jesus in their life time and that the Armageddon is coming soon and is not avoidable and is for seen in the bible and Quran.However they are ignorance of their own teaching since Jesus told to his aposltes they will see his return in their live time 2000 years ago.

No I am not a prophet with prophecy just an by stander watching how the Earth is being destroyed in the name of God, greed and ignorance. Mainly religious ignorance since 90% of amercian believe men is above anything else and God special creation and they have the ?God given right to destroy.

You're not really substantiating your points here... people have always thought in the ways that you describe. Ok, America is going to get more and more into the idea of war (is that what you're trying to say?) because they'll desperately want to maintain their standard of living in the future. If I were American at the moment, for instance, I'd be baring in mind that any presidential candidate who claims to be reforming foreign policy is lying. American foreign policy centres entirely around the acquisition of oil, with the occasional flimsy cover, and has done since the 70s. So does the UK's, increasingly so, since the turn of the century. And it's going to stay that way until the our economies collapse, our governments are reduced to simple feudal structures and people start killing each other off for basic needs.

I don't think religion is going to cause the 'end of the world'. In fact I think religion is irrelevant to it. However I do think that people's religiosity will become more of a problem because of it, if that makes sense.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Oh and why I believe religion will be abolished? Because we will eventually recognize that the great big man in the sky is just an imaginary creation of men and that he has no power and we humans need to save our self from evil and not him. On the other hand the ridicules ideology of religion will eventually die down.

I don't think people are like that at all. They're natural group thinkers. However much we like to credit ourselves for thinking 'independently' and that we admire those who can do it if such creatures exist, et cetera, this is simply untrue. Anyone here study/studied psychology? Heard of Asch's line experiment? Even atheists are just as controlled be these influences, just as much as anyone else, though we like to think we're dependent entirely on logic and rational thinking. We've simply found ourselves a single niche in a sea of human delusion & I'm willing to bet that many of us wouldn't be atheists if it weren't for there being other atheists around.

If anything, I'd say that an impending 'apocalypse' would only strengthen people's religious beliefs, particularly considering how most major religions today can be categorised as apocalyptic faiths.

Quote from: "filip3rd"The reason I call it Great War because the destruction of it will be so devastating that humanity will not look into heaven for help but would be depended on each other for survival; it would be a new beginning of the human survival as one cannot even imagine.

Religion is born out of conditions like these.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Another reason is that religion is depended on ignorance, ignorance people make good soldiers and soldiers die easy in War.

HAhahahaha. :lol: Ok so you've got a chain of reasoning that goes as follows:

- Stupid people are good fighters/stupid people become soldiers (can you back this up?)

- Soldiers shoot other soldiers. That's what soldiers do.

- Stupid soldiers die, while the clever people (who don't become soldiers and can't fight because, you know, high IQs = no muscle power and ineptitude when it comes to weaponry) will be free to sit back, lots of time on their hands, to philosophise over their own faith - to the point where they denounce it - over tea and crumpets as this desperate struggle for survival goes on around them.

I'm sorry but I can't make out any sense in this...

Mister Joy you sound like some one that has found the tea pot orbiting the Sun and is very confidence is an English Tea pot. !!!!

Although I disagree with Mister Joy on the earlier statement that a OIL war is coming (somethin like that) but I fully agree that being a soldier does not mean your ignorant. The definition of 'ignorant' is somethin along the lines of 'lacking knowledge.'

That doesnt support you well, filip3rd.

Even then that is obviously going to be interpreted as it is... I am 2/3 of the way through school. If I did it over again I wish I went into the infantry. Why? Who the fuck knows---I'd have to think about it for actual legit reasons (other than cheap college). Maybe I have some deep need to kill some dip shits. I dunno.

No I am not sayin that just because I wish I went into the armed forces that that completely defeats your statement. My point is your statement is retarded and completely generalized. You should have stated initially. Even then it i still pretty over the edge...so to speak...

QuoteI am 2/3 of the way through school. If I did it over again I wish I went into the infantry.

If you only have one year left, I'm sure you'll still get your chance to sign up. :wink:

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"Although I disagree with Mister Joy on the earlier statement that a OIL war is coming (somethin like that) but I fully agree that being a soldier does not mean your ignorant. The definition of 'ignorant' is somethin along the lines of 'lacking knowledge.'

That doesnt support you well, filip3rd.

Even then that is obviously going to be interpreted as it is... I am 2/3 of the way through school. If I did it over again I wish I went into the infantry. Why? Who the fuck knows---I'd have to think about it for actual legit reasons (other than cheap college). Maybe I have some deep need to kill some dip shits. I dunno.

No I am not sayin that just because I wish I went into the armed forces that that completely defeats your statement. My point is your statement is retarded and completely generalized. You should have stated initially. Even then it i still pretty over the edge...so to speak...

I was US Marines my self, and I was stupid enogh to join the Marines. However I had a better rank since I spoke Farsi and thats what they need, but I am sure there are very smart people in the military, on the other hand I am not talking jsut about USA. USA and UK is not the world, look at the millitary of many other countries.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Mister Joy you sound like some one that has found the tea pot orbiting the Sun and is very confidence is an English Tea pot. !!!!

I've no idea what this is supposed to mean but I'm assuming that it's an insult rather than a compliment, given the English stereotype references and your previously expressed dislike for English people; what with their 'hypocritical', crusade-like over-tolerance of Muslims (as you explained so well :lol: ). Just in case, though, please elaborate.

Quote from: "takoma_kyle"Although I disagree with Mister Joy on the earlier statement that a OIL war is coming (somethin like that)

I appreciate how paranoid it sounded. I was thinking of throwing in some self-mocking tongue-in-cheek in there but hey, I can't help believing it. The US and the UK, together, have messed up international relations with pretty much all net exporters left on the planet and I don't have enough faith in either of our leaders to assume that they will depend on trying to make friends (which would involve humbling ourselves to Russia and other nation states, denouncing what power and influence we think we have - they have the oil, we are their bitches, basically) rather than just wading into the East with troops and bombs to secure wells and pipe lines. Call it pessimistic but I think the latter is more likely, particularly considering it's already happening.

Quote from: "filip3rd"I was US Marines my self, and I was stupid enogh to join the Marines. However I had a better rank since I spoke Farsi and thats what they need, but I am sure there are very smart people in the military, on the other hand I am not talking jsut about USA. USA and UK is not the world, look at the millitary of many other countries.

They're not the world but they're part of the world. If your military ignorance theory doesn't apply to them then ignorance in the world will not be abolished.

QuoteI've no idea what this is supposed to mean but I'm assuming that it's an insult rather than a compliment, given the English stereotype references and your previously expressed dislike for English people; what with their 'hypocritical', crusade-like over-tolerance of Muslims (as you explained so well :lol: ). Just in case, though, please elaborate.

Insulting? Not at all, it just seems you are pretty sure about your believe and optimism. All I am saying is don’t be naive and think the basket in full of good apple and only few bad. I urge you to go live in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan as an Atheist or Christians whatever you are and you shall change your mind if you even survive and not being beheaded.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Insulting? Not at all, it just seems you are pretty sure about your believe and optimism.

Ah. I apologise for the misinterpretation.

Quote from: "filip3rd"All I am saying is don’t be naive and think the basket in full of good apple and only few bad. I urge you to go live in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan as an Atheist or Christians whatever you are and you shall change your mind if you even survive and not being beheaded.

What we were discussing in the other topic ('UK to adopt sharia law?') is Muslims within the UK, exclusively; the vast majority of which are not 'bad apples' as you put it. Don't get me wrong, though, I acknowledge that there are many more extreme points of view elsewhere and bear this in mind within the context of this topic.

what I suggested before is that any 'coming war' which may or may not occur in the future will most likely have the advertised justification and support of religious extremes but that will not be the true cause. People have an unnerving tendency to tie their religious faiths to their other agendas.

Just a side bar, but any "oil war" would not have to be fought in open battle in the desert. It could just as well be waged secretly in board rooms with lawyers and business men as the ground troops.

Just for the record, Mr. Joy, I think the oil war is already here.

QuoteI urge you to go live in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan as an Atheist or Christians whatever you are and you shall change your mind if you even survive and not being beheaded.

I think you might be confusing extremist theocracies for muslims in general.

If you want to talk about human rights restrictions, you could just as well go to a bar in Texas on Saturday night and stand on a table and declare you are a Farsi speaking atheist and see what happens to you.

 

Quote from: "Smarmy_of_One"Just a side bar, but any "oil war" would not have to be fought in open battle in the desert. It could just as well be waged secretly in board rooms with lawyers and business men as the ground troops.

Just for the record, Mr. Joy, I think the oil war is already here.

This is true. And yes, I think the 'oil war', the way in which you describe it, has been going on for decades. Since American oil peaked, basically, which was early 70s; so very early on comparatively. Also, why do you suppose the UK became such good palls with the US at around the turn of the century? It wasn't 9/11, or the terrorist threat, or any of those things. Truth of the matter: our oil peaked in 1999. Our government is worried, and wants in on whatever loot the Americans can get hold of.

I'd be impressed if it stayed diplomatic though. It has to be kept in mind that a lot of nations are absolutely nothing without it. Diddly squat. Dead in the water. Mine & yours included. The United States, big superpower and the most oil-hungry nation on the planet, definitely included. Our international status is gone without oil, & we, the people, are screwed without it too unless we can sustain ourselves without supermarkets, electricity, transportation, industry, modern medicine, scratch that, modern science, yadda yadda. And none of our governments are doing anything to prepare their respective countries or to ween themselves off the stuff, their energies entirely focussed on acquiring more. Britain has all but destroyed its agriculture, for instance, and depends on overseas transportation for a lot of its food. As for the US, the attitude of its leaders borders on suicidal:

'We need an energy bill that encourages consumption.' - George W. Bush. Clever George!

No, either we get smart and follow the example of countries like Cuba (not in terms of communism, per se, but in terms of how they dealt with the collapse of the Soviet Union and their subsequent cut off of oil supplies) or it's going to get increasingly violent and less diplomatic, I think. Although this may be primarily due to pessimism... I'd trust Freddy Krueger to babysit my cousins more than I trust politicians to handle the fate of the world.

Remember that politicians are representatives of us. They are our voice, and in a democracy, it is supposed to be us who is handling the fate of the world.

The real issue is corporate interests taking control of the political process. Steps need to be taken to rid the world of lobbyists, not democracy.

The world would be a great place if the politicians represented who they are elected to represent instead of the corporations who pay for their election campaigns.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing democracy at all, in and of itself. Democracy's great in that it means we get to choose the better of multiple evils. However, it doesn't eliminate the reality that those in power can and do manipulate the public with great ease, more often than not by lying through their teeth. The vast majority of the voters are either ignorant, indifferent or worse, mislead. Example: the government in my country attempted to cover up the fact that our oil had peaked from the public, most likely to keep the real agendas behind their actions (the partnership with the US, joining in with the Iraq invasion, the 'war on terror' etc.) harder for the public to discern at the time. I sure as hell didn't vote for the scum who run this country now and just because the majority did doesn't mean I have to trust or accept them myself. In fact, even if I had voted for them, this would not give me cause to stop being suspicious.

I could rephrase what I said earlier then as "I don't trust the public to vote for people who will handle this problem intelligently because I don't think they're clear headed. I don't think they're clear headed because they're rarely told the truth... and, let's face it, they're all thick ."

As for lobbyists and so on, it isn't such a big issue here as elsewhere because the UK is fairly socialist. the free market, at the moment, is under more restriction than at any time since World War II. I don't trust the state any more than I trust private sector drones though, mainly because I see the government as nothing but a particularly large and powerful company and the idea of a 'public sector', even in a democracy, to be of less significance than many people credit it with. It's just as governed by human error. Just because we vote for these guys it doesn't mean that they're our benefactors and it certainly doesn't mean they're going to put our interests before theirs, whether they're in the pockets of big businesses or not.

That great is still persisting still today. From the crusades to the settlement in Iraq. More blood will be shed under the name of God. Funny how it's always under the name of God and not humans. God has always been the scapegoat for atrocious actions. Depersonalizing inhumane acts to an invisible entity is always easy for a man's psychology. Historically, it has always been the case.

If we did our actions under the guidance of reason, there will be no bloodshed whatsoever. People will reason. But reason has not been enthroned yet to the masses. This makes me sad. Eventually in the future, religion will be rendered into myths and stories.

Quote from: "jaymayo"Eventually in the future, religion will be rendered into myths and stories.

I wish I could agree with you there. Sadly, I don't share your optimism.  Religious irrationality has always governed the vast majority of the human race and I can't see that changing at any time in the future.

Well, didn't the greeks, norsemen, romans eventually change to christianity?

It is optimistic but by hypothesis, I think that the progression from polytheism to monotheism will occur once again in the form of monotheism to agnosticism. By that point, atheism will eventually come. We're here aren't we? Our visibility is gradually increasing. Our presence is a sure indicator that the transition will come somewhere near the future...

...have faith on one of human's greatest gifts, reason.

Humans have existed around 100 - 150 thousand years now and for the majority of the time they where Atheist. It is only for the past 3000 - 5000 years of it that human have worshiped some sort God, Gods. So it is not hard to believe that theism will be abolished however one must say belief may not but religious systems such as Islam, Christianity, and Judaism etc will be there is no question in it.

In regard of Democracy, democracy is not suitable for humanity. Humans are not capable to make the best judgment for the mass; on the individual level yes as workers but in mass and as one they can’t. There is a saying in my country, “tell 10 people to piss in one direction and you will end up with a wet circle”. Looking closer at our closes cousin in animal kingdom one can see that it is not a democratic but social structure. Socialism while is absolute enemy of greed can be the suitable system for humanity. However one characteristic that our cousins don’t have is greed. Humans are greedy and that is the root of the problems.  It was time when you could point at some government and say that the level of corruption is los but now days they are two different corruptions.

In USA the corruption is at a higher the people of the top are corrupt while in countries such as Brazil, Mexico the corruption also at the lower level the average Joe is corrupt too. However is possible to make a good man of the average Joe but the corruption in the government is way out of hand.

What is the solution? Anarchy that is the result of the Great War that I mentioned at first what will follow after it well I will not be alive to know. But after any major disaster always something  good emerges.

Quote from: "jaymayo"Well, didn't the greeks, norsemen, romans eventually change to christianity?

It is optimistic but by hypothesis, I think that the progression from polytheism to monotheism will occur once again in the form of monotheism to agnosticism. By that point, atheism will eventually come. We're here aren't we? Our visibility is gradually increasing. Our presence is a sure indicator that the transition will come somewhere near the future...

...have faith on one of human's greatest gifts, reason.

Ok, optimistically, I could see the decline of theism as a trend towards zero. That's about as far as I can push it. I don't think monotheism is a step up, in terms of rationality, from polytheism.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Humans have existed around 100 - 150 thousand years now and for the majority of the time they where Atheist. It is only for the past 3000 - 5000 years of it that human have worshiped some sort God, Gods.

This is untrue. Pagan beliefs are pre-historic. You could say that it's only in the last 3000-5000 years that human beings have really started to document that kind of thing so astringently. We know astonishingly little about the cultures that preceded that era and because they were all comparatively minor and to themselves; no theist belief - if it was there - would be particularly wide-spread. Theistic beliefs, way back when, are also not all that irrational. You could also say that it's only in that era, as civilisations grew, that these theistic beliefs have come to be used so heavily to keep order and power, causing theistic belief to evolve over time to become far more domineering and much more of a key cultural facet. Greek and Roman God's, as an example, were not considered to be the soul or judges of human morality as the Christian God is; they were simply powerful being that needed to be appeased. More recent religious beliefs encompass both elements.

Quote from: "filip3rd"In regard of Democracy, democracy is not suitable for humanity. Humans are not capable to make the best judgment for the mass; on the individual level yes as workers but in mass and as one they can’t.

Human error and incompetence is always there becomes far more of a problem with non-democratic states... The whole point of a democracy, simplistically, is to try and lessen the potential impacts that human error could have by keeping each other in check.

Quote from: "filip3rd"Looking closer at our closes cousin in animal kingdom one can see that it is not a democratic but social structure.

And who's done better for themselves? Us or them?

I'll answer the rest later. For now, I've just been invited down the pub. Tara.

Quote from: "Mister Joy"For now, I've just been invited down the pub.

What's the drinking age in England? Man... I wish I was there when I was 18. Then again, I started drinking at the age of 13 with my bro. In some way, I have a little of Irish in me (my fave color is green, born on Mar 17 and drinks like a f00kin irishman!) eventhough I'm asian.

But I digress... sorry, off topic.

Quote from: "Mister Joy"And who's done better for themselves? Us or them?

What make us better?
What is the contribution of humany to the Universe?

Quote from: "filip3rd"What make us better?

What makes them better is a more relevant question, given the context you used them in.

Quote from: "jaymayo"What's the drinking age in England? Man... I wish I was there when I was 18. Then again, I started drinking at the age of 13 with my bro. In some way, I have a little of Irish in me (my fave color is green, born on Mar 17 and drinks like a f00kin irishman!) eventhough I'm asian.

It's 18 (if you can vote, smoke & copulate at this age why should it be illegal to drink?) and I can sympathise with your plight . I could bottle my own blood and sell it as liqueur. Although, I am Irish. Half anyway. The other half of me is mainly Norwegian, though, so that doesn't exactly help either. :lol:

Quote from: "filip3rd"

Quote from: "Mister Joy"And who's done better for themselves? Us or them?

What make us better?
What is the contribution of humany to the Universe?

Hi filip3rd, I'd like to contribute to the on-going debate...

What makes us better to the animal kingdom (I hope that's the right context)? Well we are part of the animal kingdom yet as a different specie but we have evolved into a very complex animal that we do not rely on our physical strengths compared to our animal counterparts but rely on our brains...

...that said, humans do not use their brains that efficiently and effectively. Because of that, some of us make willful misjudgements or no judgements at all. Some willfully kill their own, some willfully kill themselves, some don't give a flying fuck to anything and/or anyone... all borne out of unreason.

When you think about it, collectively, we are the end product of evolution that was somehow a fuck-up. But who do we blame? God? Shit, God never existed so we can't blame him for what humans have been doing to each other historically. There we go. We blame man's unreason. To live up to our advanced and complex evolution, we might at least use this brain that evolution has bestowed upon us. But unfortunately, religion is there to take it away from us, blatantly forcing everyone to use "super man up there in the sky" as our basis for reason. The very fact of using a non-existent being as a basis for reason is like basing a sandcastle with oil... it doesn't make sense.

Enough of the ranting... Religion did help early man's psychology to explain the mysteries of the world around them. But our knowledge has evolved to a point that we've solved most of the mysteries of our natural world. Since then, our atheist and rational views have swelled as well. If we keep it up, I hope some day we will fix the fuck-ups we've done in the past...