Yep that's me 28 years to be exact. I know these people. How they think, live, work how they tick. If you have ever wondered who these people are that come knocking on your door here's the place to ask...
What appealed to you about the JW all those years ago?
Why can't they have blood transfusions?
Do they really believe they are working for the greater good? I don't mean this cynically.
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 08:22:50 PM
What appealed to you about the JW all those years ago?
Cults usually attract those in a low period in their lives I was at that point in the mid 70's. I had an uncle and his family that became JW's and that is how I first came into contact with them. They held out a wonderful prospect of living forever on paradise earth never growing old and dying no sickness or pain the classic " fountain of youth" man has been searching for the beginning of time.
You believe and after so many years it becomes your whole life it consumes your whole life to the point where it becomes your identity. It was only after many years that I began to see the cracks in their theology...
Quote from: Ali on August 07, 2012, 08:58:28 PM
Why can't they have blood transfusions?
JW's use the scripture at Deuteronomy 12:23 But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat.
Leviticus 17:10 "'Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood--I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.
Acts 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
And other scriptures to support their blood stand...
Quote from: technolud on August 07, 2012, 09:00:08 PM
Do they really believe they are working for the greater good? I don't mean this cynically.
Oh yes they believe with all their heart and soul their faith is the one and only true Christian faith on earth today...
This is so interesting! Thanks for answering our questions!
So do they have any other limits on the kinds of medical treatment they can have, or is it just blood transfusions?
Also, does everyone have to go out and try to get new members (like Mormons, my understanding is that all Mormons have to do some kind of missionary work at some point...) or do people just do it when/if they want to?
Is the magic underwear comfy? Seriously... what's with the underwear?
Quote from: Theta Sigma on August 07, 2012, 09:35:20 PM
Is the magic underwear comfy? Seriously... what's with the underwear?
There's an underwear thing only JW can wear??
Their views on blood and medical treatment had evolved and devolved over the years. At first no blood in any firm was allowed then it began to change to allow blood fractions they also forbid organ transplants at one time claiming it was Cannibalism then changed to allow it...
They are all required to engage in the preaching work they call field service knocking on doors to spread their message. If one is not preaching they are viewed as spiritually weak and can be singled out as not ideal association...they have a two tier authority system on the congregation level. Elders and ministerial servants. They must show regular preaching work to maintain their positions in the congregation. Every one must turn in a time sheet that shows exactly how many hours they spent preaching every month...
Quote from: Theta Sigma on August 07, 2012, 09:35:20 PM
Is the magic underwear comfy? Seriously... what's with the underwear?
That's Mormons not JW's...
My bad. The underwear thing is the Mormons. Got my cults mixed up.
How are apostates treated?
Quote from: Theta Sigma on August 07, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
My bad. The underwear thing is the Mormons. Got my cults mixed up.
But now i'm interested ;_;
Normally I'm very kind to the JW's that come a-knockin'. But I've not found a sure-fire way of getting them to stop coming week by week. ( They don't come EVERY week, but when they do come, it seems they stick with the route for a month or two )
My other Adventist friends tell me that the mere mention of being an Adventist usually 'scares' them off, but it's not worked for me. I've tried taking their pamphlets, I've tried being semi-rude, I've tried not answering the door...but they come so damn early, they know we are there.
How can I stop them? I feel a certain kinship with them in that they are doing missionary work and so do I ( though not door-to-door ) so I don't want to be really rude...
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
...they are doing missionary work and so do I ( though not door-to-door )...
Please please please don't tell me you're a pamphlet preacher.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 07, 2012, 09:53:14 PM
How are apostates treated?
This may answer your question...
Jehovah's Witnesses claim apostates mentally diseased (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/war-of-words-breaks-out-among-jehovahs-witnesses-2361448.html)
An article published in July's edition of The Watchtower warns followers to stay clear of "false teachers" who are condemned as being "mentally diseased" apostates who should be avoided at all costs. "Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease," the article reads. "You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
Normally I'm very kind to the JW's that come a-knockin'. But I've not found a sure-fire way of getting them to stop coming week by week. ( They don't come EVERY week, but when they do come, it seems they stick with the route for a month or two )
My other Adventist friends tell me that the mere mention of being an Adventist usually 'scares' them off, but it's not worked for me. I've tried taking their pamphlets, I've tried being semi-rude, I've tried not answering the door...but they come so damn early, they know we are there.
How can I stop them? I feel a certain kinship with them in that they are doing missionary work and so do I ( though not door-to-door ) so I don't want to be really rude...
Two things you can do. Ask them to put you on their "do not call" list they will make a note on their territory card not to call on your address although an elder will usually call on you once a year to see if you still don't want to be called on...second tell them you were a JW for many years and are now an apostate although if they have been calling on you for some time that might not work...
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
...they are doing missionary work and so do I ( though not door-to-door )...
Please please please don't tell me you're a pamphlet preacher.
Is that the only type of missionary work you can think of?
No, I don't do preaching at all...unless you call my presence here at HAF preaching.
Quote from: zeroday on August 07, 2012, 10:26:05 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
Normally I'm very kind to the JW's that come a-knockin'. But I've not found a sure-fire way of getting them to stop coming week by week. ( They don't come EVERY week, but when they do come, it seems they stick with the route for a month or two )
My other Adventist friends tell me that the mere mention of being an Adventist usually 'scares' them off, but it's not worked for me. I've tried taking their pamphlets, I've tried being semi-rude, I've tried not answering the door...but they come so damn early, they know we are there.
How can I stop them? I feel a certain kinship with them in that they are doing missionary work and so do I ( though not door-to-door ) so I don't want to be really rude...
Two things you can do. Ask them to put you on their "do not call" list they will make a note on their territory card not to call on your address although an elder will usually call on you once a year to see if you still don't want to be called on...second tell them you were a JW for many years and are now an apostate although if they have been calling on you for some time that might not work...
Thanks. I'll try it next time. :)
Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 07, 2012, 10:01:05 PM
Quote from: Theta Sigma on August 07, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
My bad. The underwear thing is the Mormons. Got my cults mixed up.
But now i'm interested ;_;
http://www.mormon-underwear.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
What do JW's say about the failed prophecies of Jesus' return: 1914, 1925, 1975, etc.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
...they are doing missionary work and so do I ( though not door-to-door )...
Please please please don't tell me you're a pamphlet preacher.
Is that the only type of missionary work you can think of?
No, I don't do preaching at all...unless you call my presence here at HAF preaching.
I'd describe it more as martyrdom.
Quote from: En_Route on August 07, 2012, 10:49:38 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
...they are doing missionary work and so do I ( though not door-to-door )...
Please please please don't tell me you're a pamphlet preacher.
Is that the only type of missionary work you can think of?
No, I don't do preaching at all...unless you call my presence here at HAF preaching.
I'd describe it more as martyrdom.
Heh. :)
Quote from: Theta Sigma on August 07, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
My bad. The underwear thing is the Mormons. Got my cults mixed up.
I know that members of the First Church of Jesus the Swinger are obliged to wear g- strings. And nothing else.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 07, 2012, 10:47:29 PM
What do JW's say about the failed prophecies of Jesus' return: 1914, 1925, 1975, etc.
Bureaucratic inflexibility at Immigration Control.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 07, 2012, 10:47:29 PM
What do JW's say about the failed prophecies of Jesus' return: 1914, 1925, 1975, etc.
They blame it on the rank and file JW for misunderstanding their failed prophesy...this is how they dealt with the failed 1975 prophesy:
Watchtower 1976 July 15 p.441 A Solid Basis for Confidence
11 It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bible's warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date.
[...]
15 But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians, such as things that we and our families really need. We may be forgetting that, when the "day" comes, it will not change the principle that Christians must at all times take care of all their responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.
16 However, say that you are one who counted heavily on a date, and, commendably, set your attention more strictly on the urgency of the times and the need of the people to hear. And say you now, temporarily, feel somewhat disappointed; are you really the loser? Are you really hurt? We believe you can say that you have gained and profited by taking this conscientious course. Also, you have been enabled to get a really mature, more reasonable viewpoint.-Eph. 5:1-17.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Is that the only type of missionary work you can think of?
Nope it's just the way you said fellow missionaries which made me think you did a similar kind.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
I don't do preaching at all...unless you call my presence here at HAF preaching.
Kinda but not the bad type.
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 11:05:29 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Is that the only type of missionary work you can think of?
Nope it's just the way you said fellow missionaries which made me think you did a similar kind.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 07, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
I don't do preaching at all...unless you call my presence here at HAF preaching.
Kinda but not the bad type.
Gotcha. :)
Quote from: En_Route on August 07, 2012, 10:57:52 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 07, 2012, 10:47:29 PM
What do JW's say about the failed prophecies of Jesus' return: 1914, 1925, 1975, etc.
Bureaucratic inflexibility at Immigration Control.
:D
I'm glad JW's don't come to my door in the morning. They would NOT like me. ;)
Do you have any hang ups since you left?
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 11:58:22 PM
Do you have any hang ups since you left?
Socially awkward at times being a truck driver on the road doesn't help but definitely affected me socially...
Quote from: zeroday on August 08, 2012, 12:10:40 AM
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 11:58:22 PM
Do you have any hang ups since you left?
Socially awkward at times being a truck driver on the road doesn't help but definitely affected me socially...
That's a tough job. But I'm sure there are others like you who left organised religions and led very happy lives. Ok, maybe not me cuz i'm angry all the time. j.k j/k
Actually, i think HAF is a great place, because we have so many people from different walks of life!
Quote from: zeroday on August 08, 2012, 12:10:40 AM
Quote from: Crow on August 07, 2012, 11:58:22 PM
Do you have any hang ups since you left?
Socially awkward at times being a truck driver on the road doesn't help but definitely affected me socially...
A good friend of mine drove a truck for many years. A tough old game.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 07, 2012, 11:45:57 PM
I'm glad JW's don't come to my door in the morning. They would NOT like me. ;)
I think they should send all their trainees round to you to see if they are made of the right stuff. If they've stopped shaking after a couple of hours, they pass.
Why are JW's, like Mormons, so secretive? Most churches just let anyone come in and then leave when they want. Mormons don't let you into their temples, and I've always been afraid to visit a JW hall because I'm afraid I'll be harassed. I've visited just about every kind of church there is, just for the education of seeing what they do.
You could just walk into a JW congregation and attend the meetings however they will love bomb you trying to get you to study with them...besides being bored to tears you will find a building filled with mindless robots...
Appreciate you taking the time to answer all these questions.
Did you ever manage to convert anyone while you were knocking on doors?
Quote from: zeroday on August 08, 2012, 03:29:02 AM
You could just walk into a JW congregation and attend the meetings however they will love bomb you trying to get you to study with them...besides being bored to tears you will find a building filled with mindless robots...
Glad I asked. Thanks.
Quote from: zeroday on August 07, 2012, 10:22:40 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 07, 2012, 09:53:14 PM
How are apostates treated?
This may answer your question...
Jehovah's Witnesses claim apostates mentally diseased (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/war-of-words-breaks-out-among-jehovahs-witnesses-2361448.html)
An article published in July's edition of The Watchtower warns followers to stay clear of "false teachers" who are condemned as being "mentally diseased" apostates who should be avoided at all costs. "Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease," the article reads. "You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."
Wow, more or less what I expected. Such weakness on their part.
I know JWs don't celebrate birthdays and holidays, but what about special occasions like weddings? When JWs get married, do they have a big party, or are they not allowed?
Quote from: Firebird on August 08, 2012, 03:40:03 AM
Appreciate you taking the time to answer all these questions.
Did you ever manage to convert anyone while you were knocking on doors?
Not one person...the majority of new baptized JW's are the children of JW's...in 2011 the JW's spent 1.7 Billion hours in the door to door preaching work world wide for a total of 263,000 new baptized...it is almost completely ineffective. You may ask why do they continue to preach door to door if it produces little results. They will tell you it is their commission to give a witness before the end but other methods would be far more effective. Mass media, tv, radio etc but the reason is control. This is a major tool for control over the JW's. The leadership know they must maintain strict control over their lives to keep them inline and maintain their numbers. By controlling their lives like preaching and many other ways they guarantee adherence...
Quote from: Ali on August 08, 2012, 04:43:09 AM
I know JWs don't celebrate birthdays and holidays, but what about special occasions like weddings? When JWs get married, do they have a big party, or are they not allowed?
Weddings are one of the few celebrations JW's will partake in however there are strict guide lines as to how they may be celebrated. Limited alcohol, no worldly music or worldly dancing. Elders will attend to make sure everyone is monitored and it doesn't degrade to a worldly affair...
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 07, 2012, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 07, 2012, 10:01:05 PM
Quote from: Theta Sigma on August 07, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
My bad. The underwear thing is the Mormons. Got my cults mixed up.
But now i'm interested ;_;
http://www.mormon-underwear.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cbfgmorIGE
Quote from: zeroday on August 08, 2012, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: Firebird on August 08, 2012, 03:40:03 AM
Appreciate you taking the time to answer all these questions.
Did you ever manage to convert anyone while you were knocking on doors?
Not one person...the majority of new baptized JW's are the children of JW's...in 2011 the JW's spent 1.7 Billion hours in the door to door preaching work world wide for a total of 263,000 new baptized...it is almost completely ineffective. You may ask why do they continue to preach door to door if it produces little results. They will tell you it is their commission to give a witness before the end but other methods would be far more effective. Mass media, tv, radio etc but the reason is control. This is a major tool for control over the JW's. The leadership know they must maintain strict control over their lives to keep them inline and maintain their numbers. By controlling their lives like preaching and many other ways they guarantee adherence...
Wow. Why are the followers okay with this level of strict control? Do they think it's actually required by God? How do most members view the relationship between the JW leadership and God?
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on August 09, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
Wow. Why are the followers okay with this level of strict control? Do they think it's actually required by God? How do most members view the relationship between the JW leadership and God?
Every cult has its own internal logic. The key is to slowly indoctrinate after the fish bites the hook. Someone will have some particular need or be at some particular point in their life that makes them susceptible to being sucked in. Once that happens, the fish is administered the kool-aid and it makes sense, at least for awhile and sometimes for life. If you aren't in that susceptible state, you aren't attracted. The potential of human beings to be deceived is limitless.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on August 09, 2012, 01:37:38 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on August 09, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
Wow. Why are the followers okay with this level of strict control? Do they think it's actually required by God? How do most members view the relationship between the JW leadership and God?
Every cult has its own internal logic. The key is to slowly indoctrinate after the fish bites the hook. Someone will have some particular need or be at some particular point in their life that makes them susceptible to being sucked in. Once that happens, the fish is administered the kool-aid and it makes sense, at least for awhile and sometimes for life. If you aren't in that susceptible state, you aren't attracted. The potential of human beings to be deceived is limitless.
I agree, I'm just wondering what their particular rationalization is.
JW's are taught that the organization is the mouth piece of god only they can interpret the will of god...the following quotes from their literature shows their mind set:
"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind."—The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 587
"Does 'the faithful and discreet slave' [Watchtower organization] endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?—Matt. 24:45, 47. No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the New World Translation. ...They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and through our literature. ...Thus, 'the faithful and discreet slave' does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight... For those who wish to do extra Bible study and research, we recommend that they explore Insight on the Scriptures, 'All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial,' and our other publications...."—Kingdom Ministry, September 2007, p. 3
"We must not lose sight of the fact that God is directing his organization... To turn away from Jehovah and his organization, to spurn the direction of 'the faithful and discreet slave,' and to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land."—The Watchtower, June 1, 1985, pp. 19-20
"Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do."—The Watchtower, December 1, 1981, p. 27
Very interesting zeroday, thank you for sharing. :)
What does the name "Jehovah's Witness" mean?
Quote from: Ali on August 09, 2012, 02:22:40 PM
What does the name "Jehovah's Witness" mean?
Their name Jehovah's Witness is taken from Isiah 43:10
American Standard Version
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
What is the general followers perception of non JW's?
Quote from: Crow on August 09, 2012, 03:38:00 PM
What is the general followers perception of non JW's?
Because JW's believe they are the only true Christian faith on earth today they believe if you are not one of them you will suffer gods wrath and be destroyed at his judgment day. They are taught to be separate from the world not to mix with those not called brothers...
You Can live Forever (1982, 1990) p.255
Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization — God's visible organization — that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal... You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life...
Is it true that JW's believe in a literal 144,000 to be saved at Christ's second coming? If so, how is it that the slots have not all been taken already? I'm almost positive there must be more than 144,000 practicing JW's in the world. The heirarchy alone must take a good percentage of that number before the numbers reach the common JW.
If this is not true, might you explain a bit what the 144,000 number means to a JW?
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 09, 2012, 04:30:42 PM
Is it true that JW's believe in a literal 144,000 to be saved at Christ's second coming? If so, how is it that the slots have not all been taken already? I'm almost positive there must be more than 144,000 practicing JW's in the world. The heirarchy alone must take a good percentage of that number before the numbers reach the common JW.
If this is not true, might you explain a bit what the 144,000 number means to a JW?
That has been a subject of debate for years amongst JW's. According to their theology the heavenly calling for a literal 144,000 to reign with Christ in heaven ended in 1935 ( how they came to this date is another matter).
So no more would be called. They are known as the "Anointed"...however the number of anointed have not gone down since then but up, those claiming to have received the call. How to explain this. The Watchtower had to jump thru hoops over the decades over this one and settled on that sone of the anointed must have sinned and fallen out of favor with god and had to be replaced. Often though they just dismiss those that claim to be if the anointed:
"The most recent published report is for the year 1995, and it shows 28 more partakers than in the preceding year though the ratio of partakers to those attending did actually drop. On balance, that a few more chose to partake of the emblems is no cause for concern. Over the years some, even ones newly baptized, have suddenly begun to partake. In a number of cases, after a while they acknowledged that this was an error. Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. They asked for God's merciful understanding. And they continue to serve him as fine, loyal Christians, having the hope of everlasting life on earth.
There is no need for any of us to be concerned if a person begins to partake of the emblems or ceases to do so. It really is not up to us whether someone actually has been anointed with holy spirit and called to heavenly life or not. Recall Jesus' solid assurance: "I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep." Just as assuredly, Jehovah knows those whom he has chosen as spiritual sons. There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives. Yet, even as these truly anointed ones prove faithful till death, in line for the crown of life, the other sheep, who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, can look forward to surviving the impending great tribulation.—2 Timothy 4:6-8; Revelation 2:10."
Are there any statistics for how many tons of Watchtowers given to the unsuspecting strangers ended up being used as toilet paper?
Quote from: Asmodean on August 09, 2012, 08:36:22 PM
Are there any statistics for how many tons of Watchtowers given to the unsuspecting strangers ended up being used as toilet paper?
There are no stats on that but I can assure you over the decades millions of tons...the Watchtower has their own printing facilities staffed by volunteers worldwide. Just to give you an example. In 1968 the watchtower society published a new study book called "The truth that leads to eternal life" by the time the production run ended they had printed over 100 million copies. That's just one book and they produce many more with similar production numbers. Add to that the millions of Watchtower and Awake magazines each year you can get an idea.
DAMN! No wonder there are football fields the size of like... Germany where rainforest used to be. :D
I'm confused about the Annointed thing. Is that that only 144,000 can go to Heaven (in which case, if I were them, I would stop recruiting lest someone else take my spot - LOL!) or is it something to do with some sort of ruling class in Heaven?