Lately, my friends/family have been telling me how god made me so talented and smart when they see how well I've done in school and how beautiful my piano playing is...well...I wish I could just say this without being a douchebag..
If I fail, it is because I did not put in the work. If I succeed, it is because I worked my ass off. I spend hours practicing and studying & surround myself with the most positive people. So please don't tell me god blessed me with smarts and talent when I do well or god decided to take it all away because I was doing something wrong. I put all the pressure on myself and myself alone. I am not giving this god any credit for the work I do. And I am definitely not scapegoating when I fuck up.
This philosophy has the virtue of relieving them of the responsibility for failure.
Quote from: markmcdaniel on June 20, 2012, 08:12:51 AM
This philosophy has the virtue of relieving them of the responsibility for failure.
Precisely.
That's just as obnoxious as people who thank god for saving their kid's/lover's/friend's life in the hospital, when they should be fucking thanking the doctors, nurses, and the hours they put into med school. Idjits. ::)
Quote from: musicality on June 20, 2012, 07:44:37 AM
Lately, my friends/family have been telling me how god made me so talented and smart when they see how well I've done in school and how beautiful my piano playing is...well...I wish I could just say this without being a douchebag..
If I fail, it is because I did not put in the work. If I succeed, it is because I worked my ass off. I spend hours practicing and studying & surround myself with the most positive people. So please don't tell me god blessed me with smarts and talent when I do well or god decided to take it all away because I was doing something wrong. I put all the pressure on myself and myself alone. I am not giving this god any credit for the work I do. And I am definitely not scapegoating when I fuck up.
You don't sound like a douchebag at all, you're just being practical. You put in tons of hours of hard work and effort, so you get the payoff of succeeding most of the time, or at least more often than you would if you put hardly any practice and effort into your work.
It's true that some things seem to come to people 'naturally', ie, they pick up skills right away with hardly any effort - for example, some people can speak several languages with ease, or play several musical instruments just by picking them up and experimenting. But my guess is, that has a lot more to do with genetics and mental traits, and nothing to do with any supernatural gifts from 'God'.
Good for you, for taking responsibility for what you do well, and fail to do well. People who attribute everything to God definitely are looking for a way out of taking responsibility for their actions.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on June 21, 2012, 06:46:26 AM
That's just as obnoxious as people who thank god for saving their kid's/lover's/friend's life in the hospital, when they should be fucking thanking the doctors, nurses, and the hours they put into med school. Idjits. ::)
My mom is a nurse and a medical whiz. She tells me the countless stories of her saving lives and helping her patients. But she still insists that god has something to do with it. She needs to take some credit. So Much Frustration.
Quote from: Amicale on June 21, 2012, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: musicality on June 20, 2012, 07:44:37 AM
Lately, my friends/family have been telling me how god made me so talented and smart when they see how well I've done in school and how beautiful my piano playing is...well...I wish I could just say this without being a douchebag..
If I fail, it is because I did not put in the work. If I succeed, it is because I worked my ass off. I spend hours practicing and studying & surround myself with the most positive people. So please don't tell me god blessed me with smarts and talent when I do well or god decided to take it all away because I was doing something wrong. I put all the pressure on myself and myself alone. I am not giving this god any credit for the work I do. And I am definitely not scapegoating when I fuck up.
You don't sound like a douchebag at all, you're just being practical. You put in tons of hours of hard work and effort, so you get the payoff of succeeding most of the time, or at least more often than you would if you put hardly any practice and effort into your work.
It's true that some things seem to come to people 'naturally', ie, they pick up skills right away with hardly any effort - for example, some people can speak several languages with ease, or play several musical instruments just by picking them up and experimenting. But my guess is, that has a lot more to do with genetics and mental traits, and nothing to do with any supernatural gifts from 'God'.
Good for you, for taking responsibility for what you do well, and fail to do well. People who attribute everything to God definitely are looking for a way out of taking responsibility for their actions.
Thank you! It was also frustrating when all my friends were getting their acceptance letters to transfer into music conservatories and they were claiming that God is SOO GOOD. God helped you get into the college of your dreams! NO! YOU'RE talented! YOU worked hard! Take some credit!
There is a word in the modern vernacular, which perfectly describes this whole phenomenon. The word is "Tebow-ing". Apologies if you're not a follower of sports. Tim Tebow of the New York Jets has a nasty habit of genuflecting and pinching his nose like he's going to sneeze (remember to say snarfle-burgers), every time he does something good. Each time he does that, or some other receiver points skyward after scoring, I can't help but think, "How political of you!" But it speaks to what you're saying, Musicality. Stand up and take the credit you're due. You bought it. You own it. Don't be afraid to take possession. All this fake humility is sickening.
BTW, folkseses, sorry I haven't been around.
Quote from: musicality on June 21, 2012, 11:07:25 PM
God helped you get into the college of your dreams!
Have you seen that picture where they have a sportsman or an actor winning an award and thanking god, and then beside it they have a picture of a child starving to death.
Its about perspective, the trivialities of self achievement compared to a life and death situation.
Do people really think their god would help them win an award, or a game or a place in a prestigious school rather than save someone's life?
rickrocks, I missed your accusatory avatar! ;D
Do you know what annoys me more than someone attributing failure or success to God? People constantly telling other people to pray when horrible things happen. I KNOW that they mean it in the best possible way (most of them), but it drives me crazy. I have a non-religious family member going through a really rough time right now (her husband lost his job, they lost their house, one of their kids was diagnosed with permanent hearing loss) and there are a ton of people on her facebook telling her "Keep praying! I'm praying for you! Sending prayers!"
And it's like GRAWH, really? God is going to help NOW? He couldn't have helped before her kid was diagnosed with an irreversible ailment? Not to mention the fact that when they get through this tough time (which I'm sure they will), it'll be through their perseverance and hard work. Why not say something like "let me know if there's anything I can do for you". If you lose your house are prayers REALLY supposed to make you feel better?! /rant.
Stevil and DJ, what you both said is something I think about often. Do people really think that if God exists, they can change his mind if only they pray hard enough? Do they think that God can do something for someone, but will refuse to until someone begs him to do it? And do they really think that if there are starving, deathly sick people in the world whose entire life has been misery, God is going to help them take care of a (relatively) normal problem like passing a test or winning a game? Or for that matter, miraculously curing something that's already happened, such as profound hearing loss?
I'd like to know where these people's heads are. They also always make sure to cover their bases, so they can't 'lose' no matter what. If they pray and don't get what they prayed for, then they think either they didn't pray hard enough, or it wasn't God's will to give it to them. If they pray and do get what they prayed for, then of course it was God's will, and God loves them sooooo much that he granted them this special favour. Of course, they'll tack on how unworthy they were to receive such a 'blessing', just to assure everyone of their ongoing humility. ::)
I'm sorry, I guess I'm feeling particularly grouchy, cynical and jaded today. It's not my intent to pick on Christians. In fact, I have respect for religious people who don't ask God for all kinds of favours, and who instead just usually thank God when they pray, or simply believe without asking for special requests to be answered. But my patience is running very, very thin with people who attribute every little or large failure and success in their lives to 'the will of God'.
When you can explain to me why it is that God let you win a football game, but apparently ignored the child dying of AIDS in Africa, come talk to me.
Quote from: Amicale on June 22, 2012, 01:42:01 AM
Of course, they'll tack on how unworthy they were to receive such a 'blessing', just to assure everyone of their ongoing humility.
I'm sure they use it as proof that god exists and then they will guilt themselves into never questioning god's existence again.
With regards to prayer, my favourite NZ boxer David Tua, he prayed before fights. He didn't pray for the win, he would pray for the safety and well being of his opponent. He would then go about his business trying to make his opponent unconscious.
Thanking god for all the good things in your life is, in my opinion, one of the most self-centered things you can do. Right, you're so important that he let you get that job, but that guy dying of cancer can go fuck himself. Really? If there is a god after all, he's a huge douchebag. We should sue (http://www.theonion.com/articles/israelites-sue-god-for-breach-of-covenant,423/) him
Quote from: Amicale on June 22, 2012, 01:42:01 AM
Stevil and DJ, what you both said is something I think about often. Do people really think that if God exists, they can change his mind if only they pray hard enough? Do they think that God can do something for someone, but will refuse to until someone begs him to do it? And do they really think that if there are starving, deathly sick people in the world whose entire life has been misery, God is going to help them take care of a (relatively) normal problem like passing a test or winning a game? Or for that matter, miraculously curing something that's already happened, such as profound hearing loss?
I'd like to know where these people's heads are. They also always make sure to cover their bases, so they can't 'lose' no matter what. If they pray and don't get what they prayed for, then they think either they didn't pray hard enough, or it wasn't God's will to give it to them. If they pray and do get what they prayed for, then of course it was God's will, and God loves them sooooo much that he granted them this special favour. Of course, they'll tack on how unworthy they were to receive such a 'blessing', just to assure everyone of their ongoing humility. ::)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Because it makes all the sense in the world to pray to an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent god. ::)
Quote from: rickrocks on June 22, 2012, 12:43:09 AM
There is a word in the modern vernacular, which perfectly describes this whole phenomenon. The word is "Tebow-ing". Apologies if you're not a follower of sports. Tim Tebow of the New York Jets has a nasty habit of genuflecting and pinching his nose like he's going to sneeze (remember to say snarfle-burgers), every time he does something good. Each time he does that, or some other receiver points skyward after scoring, I can't help but think, "How political of you!" But it speaks to what you're saying, Musicality. Stand up and take the credit you're due. You bought it. You own it. Don't be afraid to take possession. All this fake humility is sickening.
BTW, folkseses, sorry I haven't been around.
Glad to have you back. Seriously :)
All these responses are great. It sucks that all these prayers for help and gratefulness to god is ALL OVER my Facebook. Sometimes, I have a hard time trying to say something...I don't want to say "I'll pray for you..." I don't know. I try to find the most cliché thing to say whenever someone is going through a hard time. (I guess the nicest/neutral thing I usually say is "I'm sending some positive thoughts your way. I'm here if you need anyone to talk to.") What do you guys usually say??
Nothing, because i dont have religious friends,nor do i add them to my facebook.
Usually a "hug" or "you know my number" is enough.
Quote from: rickrocks on June 22, 2012, 12:43:09 AM
BTW, folkseses, sorry I haven't been around.
One never has to apologise for coming back :)
Quote from: musicality on June 22, 2012, 06:11:33 AM
All these responses are great. It sucks that all these prayers for help and gratefulness to god is ALL OVER my Facebook. Sometimes, I have a hard time trying to say something...I don't want to say "I'll pray for you..." I don't know. I try to find the most cliché thing to say whenever someone is going through a hard time. (I guess the nicest/neutral thing I usually say is "I'm sending some positive thoughts your way. I'm here if you need anyone to talk to.") What do you guys usually say??
i try to avoid that whole spiritulistic 'positive thought' malarky, and just go with 'i'm thinking of you' or 'can i call for a chat, so you can have a good moan?'
Quote from: Amicale on June 22, 2012, 01:42:01 AM
I'd like to know where these people's heads are. They also always make sure to cover their bases, so they can't 'lose' no matter what. If they pray and don't get what they prayed for, then they think either they didn't pray hard enough, or it wasn't God's will to give it to them. If they pray and do get what they prayed for, then of course it was God's will, and God loves them sooooo much that he granted them this special favour. Of course, they'll tack on how unworthy they were to receive such a 'blessing', just to assure everyone of their ongoing humility. ::)
well put.
Quote from: Firebird on June 22, 2012, 04:16:43 AM
Thanking god for all the good things in your life is, in my opinion, one of the most self-centered things you can do. Right, you're so important that he let you get that job, but that guy dying of cancer can go fuck himself. Really? If there is a god after all, he's a huge douchebag. We should sue (http://www.theonion.com/articles/israelites-sue-god-for-breach-of-covenant,423/) him
i dont nessessarily agree with the idea that being grateful is self centered. in my head, praying thank you prayers for all the good stuff in life is fine, i mean, i used to do it every day, i've got a lot to be grateful for and i'm fully aware that not everyone has the health i enjoy, 2 kids who are never sick, etc etc.
its the people who ask for stuff constantly, who are never quite grateful enough and spend their prayer time asking for stupid stuff, stuff that doesnt matter.
my mother is like this. she prays for holidays and games consoles and when she gets a wee bonus in her paycheck..oh look, god has provided!
bloody hell.
this is the point where we all say;
Quote from: Amicale on June 22, 2012, 01:42:01 AM
Do people really think that if God exists, they can change his mind if only they pray hard enough? Do they think that God can do something for someone, but will refuse to until someone begs him to do it? And do they really think that if there are starving, deathly sick people in the world whose entire life has been misery, God is going to help them take care of a (relatively) normal problem like passing a test or winning a game?
When you can explain to me why it is that God let you win a football game, but apparently ignored the child dying of AIDS in Africa, come talk to me.
please excuse my bitter rant, but she even 'received' a holiday to frickin cuba...nothing to do with that massive credit card bill then...? can we all say, delusional much?
Quote from: musicality on June 22, 2012, 06:11:33 AM
All these responses are great. It sucks that all these prayers for help and gratefulness to god is ALL OVER my Facebook. Sometimes, I have a hard time trying to say something...I don't want to say "I'll pray for you..." I don't know. I try to find the most cliché thing to say whenever someone is going through a hard time. (I guess the nicest/neutral thing I usually say is "I'm sending some positive thoughts your way. I'm here if you need anyone to talk to.") What do you guys usually say??
I usually just say "please let me know if there's anything I can do for you." It's short and sweet and not too personal. :)
Quote from: musicality on June 22, 2012, 06:11:33 AM
All these responses are great. It sucks that all these prayers for help and gratefulness to god is ALL OVER my Facebook. Sometimes, I have a hard time trying to say something...I don't want to say "I'll pray for you..." I don't know. I try to find the most cliché thing to say whenever someone is going through a hard time. (I guess the nicest/neutral thing I usually say is "I'm sending some positive thoughts your way. I'm here if you need anyone to talk to.") What do you guys usually say??
Something along the lines of "You are in our thoughts. Please let us know if there's anything we can do to help".
I wasn't sure whether to say the first sentence, since the default line is "thoughts and prayers". Is that too obvious an announcement of my atheism? Because that's the last thing I would want to do during a difficult time for someone else.
Quote from: Firebird on June 22, 2012, 05:11:15 PM
Quote from: musicality on June 22, 2012, 06:11:33 AM
All these responses are great. It sucks that all these prayers for help and gratefulness to god is ALL OVER my Facebook. Sometimes, I have a hard time trying to say something...I don't want to say "I'll pray for you..." I don't know. I try to find the most cliché thing to say whenever someone is going through a hard time. (I guess the nicest/neutral thing I usually say is "I'm sending some positive thoughts your way. I'm here if you need anyone to talk to.") What do you guys usually say??
Something along the lines of "You are in our thoughts. Please let us know if there's anything we can do to help".
I wasn't sure whether to say the first sentence, since the default line is "thoughts and prayers". Is that too obvious an announcement of my atheism? Because that's the last thing I would want to do during a difficult time for someone else.
I don't think it's that obvious. In my experience most Christians assume that everyone is a Christian unless you really whack them between the eyes with it. Or are Hitler. They don't like to claim Hitler as one of their own. ;)
Quote from: Amicale on June 22, 2012, 01:42:01 AM
I'm sorry, I guess I'm feeling particularly grouchy, cynical and jaded today. It's not my intent to pick on Christians.
Oh, but they're so easy to pick on!
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on June 22, 2012, 12:54:15 AM
rickrocks, I missed your accusatory avatar! ;D
I must say you're lookin' mighty sexy in bronze, Juliet.
The people who might pray for me are doing so for the kindest reasons. Never mind that they are being foolish when they do so. The 'pray for you' thing annoys me but I do regard it as a well meaning gesture. I am also annoyed when a convenience store clerk tells me to "have a blessed day". Nonetheless I usually say thank you, but sometimes mumble under my breath, something curmudgeonly like; "you poor misguided person, how could you have become so deranged?".
I join the rest of you in admiration of Musicalities determination and hard work. You go girl.
Quote from: Icarus on July 12, 2012, 05:51:23 AM
The people who might pray for me are doing so for the kindest reasons. Never mind that they are being foolish when they do so. The 'pray for you' thing annoys me but I do regard it as a well meaning gesture.
Yep, me too. I take it as a nice gesture that they are thinking of me in my time of need.
When people post things on Facebook, I vary in my response. When the responses are particularly humble, I'll respond, "Get the fuck off my internet." Often though, I'll just say something like, "Hey, since your so good on charity, can I have all your money? I need it for...medicinal purposes."(No lie, I actually called into catholic answers one time said that.)
In any case, people are often pretty religious, but I don't mind when they tell me that god gave me my intelligence. Naturally, I don't mind because I'm more interested in ideas rather than people, and thus it is easier for me ignore it.