The penultimate round of the F1 season is going to be in Austin Texas this year. I have watched F1 since '75 and there has never ever been a more wide open season than this. So far in the 20 race season there have been 7 races and 7 DIFFERENT winners!!! It was a record at 6 and last weekend Lewis Hamilton got his first victory of the season bringing the total to 7. 5 different makes of car have won a race. This is unheard of stuff. If you can get to the Texas Grand Prix you could well see the champion crowned and also witness an all time classic event.
http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/united_states_882/circuit_diagram.html
Quote from: Tank on June 11, 2012, 04:50:17 PM
The penultimate round of the F1 season is going to be in Austin Texas this year. I have watched F1 since '75 and there has never ever been a more wide open season than this. So far in the 20 race season there have been 7 races and 7 DIFFERENT winners!!! It was a record at 6 and last weekend Lewis Hamilton got his first victory of the season bringing the total to 7. 5 different makes of car have won a race. This is unheard of stuff. If you can get to the Texas Grand Prix you could well see the champion crowned and also witness an all time classic event.
http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/united_states_882/circuit_diagram.html
This is right in my back yard and I didn't know about it. Thanks for the info. My son-in-law is big into racing.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 20, 2012, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: Tank on June 11, 2012, 04:50:17 PM
The penultimate round of the F1 season is going to be in Austin Texas this year. I have watched F1 since '75 and there has never ever been a more wide open season than this. So far in the 20 race season there have been 7 races and 7 DIFFERENT winners!!! It was a record at 6 and last weekend Lewis Hamilton got his first victory of the season bringing the total to 7. 5 different makes of car have won a race. This is unheard of stuff. If you can get to the Texas Grand Prix you could well see the champion crowned and also witness an all time classic event.
http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/united_states_882/circuit_diagram.html
This is right in my back yard and I didn't know about it. Thanks for the info. My son-in-law is big into racing.
I hope you enjoy it!
I wish we could. However, the history of F1 in America suggests that the "Austin Experiment" will be quite futile.
Seriously, F1 has no advantage on NASCAR and this will destroy it here in the States.
NASCAR is more fan friendly. NASCAR is less expensive.
As a result, F1 will fail in America - just like it did at Indy.
So....I will go and see F1 during it's third and final year in Texas, and it will be a good deal.
I hope this doesn't bumm you out....
Did F1 continue running after Prost retired? Oh yes, that dickweed schumacher drove in it for a while didn't he.
Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on June 22, 2012, 11:57:26 PM
I wish we could. However, the history of F1 in America suggests that the "Austin Experiment" will be quite futile.
Seriously, F1 has no advantage on NASCAR and this will destroy it here in the States.
NASCAR is more fan friendly. NASCAR is less expensive.
As a result, F1 will fail in America - just like it did at Indy.
So....I will go and see F1 during it's third and final year in Texas, and it will be a good deal.
I hope this doesn't bumm you out....
Not at all, I think it's a perfectly understandable point of view from an American perspective.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Famerican-vs-european-women.flippertv.com%2Fimage001.jpg&hash=f60474ae696e3b855f68f6365e2298559f0ba277)
F1 is on the left and NASCAR on the right ;)
Quote from: technolud on June 23, 2012, 03:09:22 AM
Did F1 continue running after Prost retired? Oh yes, that dickweed schumacher drove in it for a while didn't he.
Yes he did. 7 world championships >:(
But this season couldn't be more different from those dark days of monotony. 7 different winners in 5 marques of car and the first win for Williams in bloody ages and it wasn't a fluke win either! It's completely wide open it's even possible that Schumacher could win this week.
Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on June 22, 2012, 11:57:26 PM
I wish we could. However, the history of F1 in America suggests that the "Austin Experiment" will be quite futile.
Seriously, F1 has no advantage on NASCAR and this will destroy it here in the States.
NASCAR is more fan friendly. NASCAR is less expensive.
As a result, F1 will fail in America - just like it did at Indy.
So....I will go and see F1 during it's third and final year in Texas, and it will be a good deal.
I hope this doesn't bumm you out....
And NASCAR has an invocation prior to every race... it's even part of the telecast now.
How on earth is NASCAR so popular in the States? It must easily be the lowest form of motor racing going.
Quote from: Crow on June 23, 2012, 09:57:43 AM
How on earth is NASCAR so popular in the States? It must easily be the lowest form of motor racing going.
And McDonalds is the lowest form of 'food' go figure. It doesn't take a lot of skill to shove a fucking great engine in a car with the aerodynamics of a brick and make great
entertainment. NASCAR is to motorsport as WWF is to wrestling. It's a formula that's just for fun and that's fine; it is what it is.
I prefer F1 although I've not really followed it this year because I keep forgetting to set the timer on the DVR. >:( I would even tolerate going to Texas to see a race. :D
Quote from: Tank on June 23, 2012, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Crow on June 23, 2012, 09:57:43 AM
How on earth is NASCAR so popular in the States? It must easily be the lowest form of motor racing going.
And McDonalds is the lowest form of 'food' go figure. It doesn't take a lot of skill to shove a fucking great engine in a car with the aerodynamics of a brick and make great entertainment. NASCAR is to motorsport as WWF is to wrestling. It's a formula that's just for fun and that's fine; it is what it is.
I just fail to see whats entertaining about NASCAR, I can see whats entertaining about wrestling even though I'm not a fan, its sports meets Jeremy Kyle with flashing lights and fireworks. Wresting is more like monster trucks or destruction derby and I can understand the entertainment value in them, but NASCAR seriously whats entertaining about it.
Quote from: Crow on June 23, 2012, 02:11:58 PM
Quote from: Tank on June 23, 2012, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Crow on June 23, 2012, 09:57:43 AM
How on earth is NASCAR so popular in the States? It must easily be the lowest form of motor racing going.
And McDonalds is the lowest form of 'food' go figure. It doesn't take a lot of skill to shove a fucking great engine in a car with the aerodynamics of a brick and make great entertainment. NASCAR is to motorsport as WWF is to wrestling. It's a formula that's just for fun and that's fine; it is what it is.
I just fail to see whats entertaining about NASCAR, I can see whats entertaining about wrestling even though I'm not a fan, its sports meets Jeremy Kyle with flashing lights and fireworks. Wresting is more like monster trucks or destruction derby and I can understand the entertainment value in them, but NASCAR seriously whats entertaining about it.
The crashes.
Quote from: Crow on June 23, 2012, 09:57:43 AM
How on earth is NASCAR so popular in the States? It must easily be the lowest form of motor racing going.
Just curious about what makes NASCAR "the lowest form of motor racing"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a NASCAR fan. To me, watching cars race around a track is a completely charmless and boring proposition. But I feel that way about all car racing, not just NASCAR. What makes NASCAR "lower" than any other form. Aren't they all just people driving cars around a track for entertainment purposes?
Quote from: Ali on June 23, 2012, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: Crow on June 23, 2012, 09:57:43 AM
How on earth is NASCAR so popular in the States? It must easily be the lowest form of motor racing going.
Just curious about what makes NASCAR "the lowest form of motor racing"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a NASCAR fan. To me, watching cars race around a track is a completely charmless and boring proposition. But I feel that way about all car racing, not just NASCAR. What makes NASCAR "lower" than any other form. Aren't they all just people driving cars around a track for entertainment purposes?
NO finesse whatsoever. The cars are all just an engine in a brick.
Could that be a little bit of snobbery, do you think? Kind of like the pictures of the European woman and the American woman, as if there are no heavy Europeans, and no attractive Americans? ;)
Quote from: Ali on June 23, 2012, 02:59:31 PM
Just curious about what makes NASCAR "the lowest form of motor racing"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a NASCAR fan. To me, watching cars race around a track is a completely charmless and boring proposition. But I feel that way about all car racing, not just NASCAR. What makes NASCAR "lower" than any other form. Aren't they all just people driving cars around a track for entertainment purposes?
Well it takes considerable skill way beyond the norm for racing such as F1 or MotoGP, and peek physical conditioning. The reason I say its the lowest form is the entire point of NASCAR is to try and not crash but they pretend its about something else, everything about the design of the cars is to create a crash. It does take skill but its skill in avoiding a crash. I just find it rather twisted that someone would rather watch a crash rather than watch someone of outstanding talent.
I wrote crash a lot, cant be arsed editing it.
I guess I don't know enough about racing, but it would seem to me that whenever one is driving like 200mph, avoiding a crash would be a priority, and would take a lot of skill and training. But I'm certainly not the expert, as I don't follow either kind of racing.
Quote from: Ali on June 23, 2012, 03:47:20 PM
I guess I don't know enough about racing, but it would seem to me that whenever one is driving like 200mph, avoiding a crash would be a priority, and would take a lot of skill and training. But I'm certainly not the expert, as I don't follow either kind of racing.
Crashing is part of racing, every other high end format of racing does as much as possible to reduce the risk of it, it usually something you don't want to see happen as its very likely to be very serious injury or death. But in NASCAR its format is going to cause more crashes than driver or mechanical fault.
Quote from: Ali on June 23, 2012, 03:35:14 PM
Could that be a little bit of snobbery, do you think? Kind of like the pictures of the European woman and the American woman, as if there are no heavy Europeans, and no attractive Americans? ;)
My 'dig' with the photo was aimed at Happy_is_Good. And was aimed at the type of cars used.
F1
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.thecarconnection.com%2Fmed%2Fmclaren-mp4-27-2012-formula-1-race-car_100380110_m.jpg&hash=1a67ca3a68979b88cac1c7e03c9da40ba779c62c)
The aerodynamisist are one of the most highly paid positions at an F1 team.
F1 drives carbon fibre and composite research not aircraft design.
NASCAR
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-IqJZSUbaWvo%2FThCEig0SU6I%2FAAAAAAAACs4%2FeOh7eoer4CM%2Fs1600%2FThe%2BNASCAR%2B%2525281%252529.jpg&hash=7463a318cb762d8d7d71975fdb6788b2bcde5d43)
Oh sure, pick the M&M car to prove your point. ;D There has to be more serious looking NASCAR cars out there.
NASCAR onboard camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPO5HgFd0mk)
MotoGP onboard camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lEWjTXNst4I#t=79s)
F1 onboard camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IB9v_2U3NBA#t=27s) / F1 onboard in the rain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kx7-e4mtss)
---
Bike on Nurburgring (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGsTcmLG7dU) /Car on Nurburgring (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acSGbO0MGGI)
TT bike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXc29ZgutI) / TT car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFlSG9_Ue4A)
Quote from: Ali on June 23, 2012, 04:54:20 PM
Oh sure, pick the M&M car to prove your point. ;D There has to be more serious looking NASCAR cars out there.
I never noticed it was M&M !!!!
It was just the right sized image :D
Quote from: Tank on June 23, 2012, 05:11:25 PM
Quote from: Ali on June 23, 2012, 04:54:20 PM
Oh sure, pick the M&M car to prove your point. ;D There has to be more serious looking NASCAR cars out there.
I never noticed it was M&M !!!!
It was just the right sized image :D
As an American, my eye was drawn immediately to the paid advertisement, and then my brain went "M&M's, that sounds delish. I should go out and buy some...." :D
Quote from: Ali on June 23, 2012, 05:13:52 PM
As an American, my eye was drawn immediately to the paid advertisement, and then my brain went "M&M's, that sounds delish. I should go out and buy some...." :D
Wish we got peanut butter m&m's over hear they are amazing.
I dunno if the non-Americans are aware of it, but Nascar has lately lost a lot of its commercial luster. Common belief is that it is due to all the cars becoming essentially identical and having absolutely zero to do with "stock" cars. 30 year ago a chevy was based on a chevy and a ford on a ford. More like the european sedan races I guess.
I'm not a particularly big fan of oval track racing but I think you have to give all the drivers thier due.
And while Tank is correct in saying this year is exceptional for F1, there have been many years that has not been the case and the only passing during the race was happening in the pit stops. I watched the F1 race at Indy some years back and I don't think there were three passes in the whole race and if I recall Schumacher's team mate slowed down at the end to let Shumacher pass and win.
Speaking of Schumacher, he really is a turd. Him and his mentor Senna. I think both did great damage to the sport.
The F1 rules changed last year and introduced a modification to the cars called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_reduction_system it has worked very well indeed and increased the number of passes. In addition Schumacher had such a horrid psychological effect which has now gone. Loads of drivers know they can win and do!
Quote from: Tank on June 23, 2012, 06:58:55 PM
The F1 rules changed last year and introduced a modification to the cars called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_reduction_system it has worked very well indeed and increased the number of passes. In addition Schumacher had such a horrid psychological effect which has now gone. Loads of drivers know they can win and do!
Yeah it changed drastically and for the better, I think the Button race in Canada last year was my favorite F1 race so far.
Since Schumacher broke his back he hasn't really been on top form. But every now and again he shows a spark of brilliance.
Well maybe I need to give it another vid.
On some of the other threads they are talking about morals again, asking it be defined. Maybe if we start with "immoral = Schumacher" (at least limited to race car driving, maybe he's a really nice guy off track) we could get somewhere.
Am I over doing this?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpull.imgfave.netdna-cdn.com%2Fimage_cache%2F1340478567364362.jpg&hash=5020026e7a3409781916a2e1b2111b20effc9e3d)
Schumacher would be the one forcing the other car onto the grass.
Quote from: technolud on June 23, 2012, 08:11:35 PM
Well maybe I need to give it another vid.
On some of the other threads they are talking about morals again, asking it be defined. Maybe if we start with "immoral = Schumacher" (at least limited to race car driving, maybe he's a really nice guy off track) we could get somewhere.
Am I over doing this?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpull.imgfave.netdna-cdn.com%2Fimage_cache%2F1340478567364362.jpg&hash=5020026e7a3409781916a2e1b2111b20effc9e3d)
Schumacher would be the one forcing the other car onto the grass.
He was a cheat no doubt about that whatsoever.
NASCAR has a lot of faults.
NASCAR still practices the Invocation before races, and it lets a bit too many rednecks into its ranks of drivers.
Nevertheless...it's fun and affordable! And it's infinitely accessible compared to F1. I mean, you can actually walk up to those drivers and say "Hello"!
Also, NASCAR is accused of being "low tech" - but this doesn't matter. The people who watch NASCAR consider f1 "Low Tech" compared to the F-35 or F-22. Seriously, I talked to a NASCAR fan at the Texas Speedway - who worked for Lockheed on the F-35 - and he thought F1 was a Joke technologically.
Seriously...F1 does not impress Americans with its technology. F1 just doesn't measure up.
Next...we'll talk about driving and what NASCAR fans see as a weakness in F1 drivers.
Dem sounds like fight'en words.
Good thing we're not talking about anything important.
Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on June 24, 2012, 01:54:58 AM
NASCAR has a lot of faults.
NASCAR still practices the Invocation before races, and it lets a bit too many rednecks into its ranks of drivers.
Nevertheless...it's fun and affordable! And it's infinitely accessible compared to F1. I mean, you can actually walk up to those drivers and say "Hello"!
Also, NASCAR is accused of being "low tech" - but this doesn't matter. The people who watch NASCAR consider f1 "Low Tech" compared to the F-35 or F-22. Seriously, I talked to a NASCAR fan at the Texas Speedway - who worked for Lockheed on the F-35 - and he thought F1 was a Joke technologically.
Seriously...F1 does not impress Americans with its technology. F1 just doesn't measure up.
Next...we'll talk about driving and what NASCAR fans see as a weakness in F1 drivers.
How many
American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all. ;D
Nigel Mansell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Mansell) won the F1 Championship went to America and won the US chamionship, first 'rooky' ever to do so.
QuoteNigel Ernest James Mansell, CBE (born 8 August 1953 in Upton-upon-Severn, Worcestershire, England) is a British racing driver who won both the Formula One World Championship (1992) and the CART Indy Car World Series (1993). Mansell was the reigning F1 champion when he moved over to CART, being the first person to win the CART title in his debut season, making him the only person to hold both titles simultaneously.
It was a while ago but F1 drivers who are 'past it' in F1 often retire to CART racing in the USA and win loads of races ;)
Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on June 24, 2012, 01:54:58 AM
Also, NASCAR is accused of being "low tech" - but this doesn't matter. The people who watch NASCAR consider f1 "Low Tech" compared to the F-35 or F-22. Seriously, I talked to a NASCAR fan at the Texas Speedway - who worked for Lockheed on the F-35 - and he thought F1 was a Joke technologically.
If NASCAR used jet engines I would agree with you but they don't. Plus F1 isn't even going to be anywhere in comparison to a jet fighter technology wise, a single F-35 costs $197m and estimated development cost of a trillion, and no restrictions. I can only find costs for 2006 but you are talking about £250m costs for the season on average with lots of restrictions in place. I would never compare a fighter jet to a jumbo jet never mind a racing car to a fighter jet.
QuoteHow many American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all. ;D
Well...how many F1 Drivers have made it in NASCAR? None!
Not Raikonnen, Sato, Villunueve, Montoya...etc...
They just don't cut it.
NASCAR requires a type of refined set of skills that F1 Drivers are just not trained to develop. I shall discuss this later.
Quote from: technolud on June 24, 2012, 04:16:44 AM
Dem sounds like fight'en words.
Good thing we're not talking about anything important.
Personally...i think this is a varient of the Bicycle Shed Argument. Someone let me know when they want to back off....Please. I'll do it.
Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on June 25, 2012, 05:09:21 AM
QuoteHow many American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all. ;D
Well...how many F1 Drivers have made it in NASCAR? None!
Not Raikonnen, Sato, Villunueve, Montoya...etc...
They just don't cut it.
NASCAR requires a type of refined set of skills that F1 Drivers are just not trained to develop. I shall discuss this later.
What's the crossover like between CART and NASCAR drivers as that would be a little more indicative of transferable skill set. Comparing F1 and NASCAR is like comparing Apples and Banananananas (I know how to spell it but not when to stop), but CART and F1 are much more comparable and that's where US drivers simply can't hack it but is that because the good CART drivers go on to NASCAR because that's where the money is?
Quote from: Tank on June 25, 2012, 08:34:12 AM
Quote from: Happy_Is_Good on June 25, 2012, 05:09:21 AM
QuoteHow many American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all. ;D
Well...how many F1 Drivers have made it in NASCAR? None!
Not Raikonnen, Sato, Villunueve, Montoya...etc...
They just don't cut it.
NASCAR requires a type of refined set of skills that F1 Drivers are just not trained to develop. I shall discuss this later.
What's the crossover like between CART and NASCAR drivers as that would be a little more indicative of transferable skill set. Comparing F1 and NASCAR is like comparing Apples and Banananananas (I know how to spell it but not when to stop), but CART and F1 are much more comparable and that's where US drivers simply can't hack it but is that because the good CART drivers go on to NASCAR because that's where the money is?
Tank,
I agree with you. I'm just angry about how F1 has screwed Texas...and ME!
F1 is extracting $20 Million/year for sanctioning fees from this state that really can't afford shit like this much longer. Texas had it's "Ireland" moment...now, we are broke. Yet...some really smart guy can convince our Governor to play the fool - and seeing that the Governor is Rick Perry, maybe this isn't so hard to do. I just don't like it.
Likewise, when NASCAR returned to Texas in the mid 90's, the track was built without taxpayer subsidy and will draw in any given year twice the crowds as will this Austin F1 track (200,000 vs 100,000) - and do it three times a year!
If F1 had come here of its own accord and had a private developer build the track without screwing the Taxpayer, then I would say...Hell yeah! Instead, F1 is doing what it always does...promise world-class Sh_t at the expense of the Taxpayer! What a freakin' welfare case that dare say its a legitimate business! Isn't there another Turkey, Dubai or China that F1 can screw out of money?
And...if NASCAR ever tried the same thing, then I would despise NASCAR, too. In fact, I really despise American Football (NFL) because they have perfected the art of dry-humping the taxpayer!
Sorry for the rant.
Anyways...In my estimation, F1 drivers still are great drivers. They certainly taught CART and Indy a thing, or two. I think what helps these drivers (F1) become so damned good is that they are very competitively selected (but NASCAR is, too - but not so much Indy...they suck) but then they are given an amount of seat-time in car that is incomprehensible to a CART, Indy or NASCAR driver. Man...they not only can drive that F1 car like demons, but they almost wear it like a suit! It's crazy.
Tank you are woefully misinformed about the engineering excellence of NASCAR engines, the extent of aerodynamic attention to the boxy cars, and the skill set of the drivers. The required engine is a 5.7 litre, two valve, pushrod, V8. The basic engine design was first produced in 1954 by Chevrolet. It has become ever more sophisticated such that it routinely makes 150HP per litre. It is an antiquated design that has been developed to a fine degree of output and reliability. Were the rules more modern we could and would produce far more advanced designs that can easily rival Ferrari, Mercedes, Cosworth or any other.
The bodies of the cars do not have wings or other adjustable aero devices. However the State of North Carolina, where the hillbillies hold forth, has at least a dozen ultra modern wind tunnels, some with moving road facilities. There are many aero facilities in other parts of the country too. There are many chassis dynomometers that test the suspensions in at least eight planes. The NASCAR lot is concentrated in N.C. The whole improbable scenario is big business where mega dollars are spent every week.
The drivers are not fat slobs who spit tobacco juice. They are skilled athletes who work out strenuously and consistently. Their skill applies to the cars and tracks where they run. Incidentally, they run on road courses two or three times a season. The drivers do much more than try to avoid crashes. They travel at speeds near the F1 speeds and all the drivers know that crashing is not at all a healthy passtime, nor does it bring much purse money. Did you know that the three podium finishes accumulate to about two million dollars in pay week in and week out.
All that said, NASCAR bores the shit out of me. I am a motorcycle guy, mechanical engineer, vast experience on the flow bench and dyno, former pro bike closed course road racer, engine builder, and a few more things that qualify me to challenge about your absence of factual details of the crazy American racing scene. I dearly appreciate the sheer excellence of the F1 and MotoGP world. I am fully aware that the technology being exploited in those areas are more advanced than our stubborn, backwater rules allow. The way we do it may be retro but we do it very well.
Just sayin'
Quote from: Icarus on July 04, 2012, 11:31:39 PM
All that said, NASCAR bores the shit out of me. I am a motorcycle guy, mechanical engineer, vast experience on the flow bench and dyno, former pro bike closed course road racer, engine builder, and a few more things that qualify me to challenge about your absence of factual details of the crazy American racing scene. I dearly appreciate the sheer excellence of the F1 and MotoGP world. I am fully aware that the technology being exploited in those areas are more advanced than our stubborn, backwater rules allow. The way we do it may be retro but we do it very well.
When you say "closed course road racer" as the American terminology is different to our own does that mean what the rest of the world would consider a normal motor racing circuit? When I hear road race I think of the TT and other temporary tracks that use the public roads such as Monaco.