Well, ya gotta admit that this guy practiced what he preached.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/01/death-of-snake-handling-preacher-shines-light-on-lethal-appalachian-tradition/?hpt=hp_c1
But I'm a little disappointed that he finally sought medical help. I almost thought he was a true believer. He reached about 95%, I think. From a Christian perspective, this practice misses the point of the gospel, but if you are a fundamentalist thinker, this is the logical end of that sort of thinking.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 02, 2012, 10:08:54 PM
But I'm a little disappointed that he finally sought medical help. I almost thought he was a true believer. He reached about 95%, I think.
I look at it as sad but encouraging. He may have come to his senses (or at least a few of them) too late, but he did eventually come to his senses.
Ah that's so sad hearing of this guy trying to keep the old ways alive.
I think we should send some of our guys to add a thrill and help them keep the culture alive.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.wikinut.com%2Fimg%2Fvlm05qawdpir4qj9%2Fjpeg%2F724x5000%2FInland-Taipan.jpeg&hash=1e8222e58ba05559184d0ac8d2efdaad6fdec9db)
I've heard there's a snake so mean that if you make it angry, it will not only strike at you but try to chase you down when you run, and so fast that it might well catch you, and so venomous that you're dead before anybody can give you an antidote (assuming there is one). If one of these folks can handle that snake and survive, I'd be willing to consider a supernatural explanation.
If I were to handle such a snake, I would seriously consider putting it in a bucket full of ice first for a few moments, until it's a bit slowed down and sleepy. No supernatural explanation required there. ;D
And I would defang it too of course, or remove it's venom glands. What these people do is just plain crazy. ::)
I tend to think of this as evolution in action. Average human intelligence has just gone up by a very small fraction of a percentage point. I think that i detect a Darwin Award winner here. In the future it might be nice if they tried to handle some real snakes say Spiting Cobras or one of the Mambas.
Quote from: markmcdaniel on June 03, 2012, 07:05:28 AM
I tend to think of this as evolution in action. Average human intelligence has just gone up by a very small fraction of a percentage point. I think that i detect a Darwin Award winner here. In the future it might be nice if they tried to handle some real snakes say Spiting Cobras or one of the Mambas.
Not to want to laugh at another's disgrace and demise, but I feel the same way. It's a clear example of a Darwin Award. ::)
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 03, 2012, 06:51:03 AM
I've heard there's a snake so mean that if you make it angry, it will not only strike at you but try to chase you down when you run, and so fast that it might well catch you, and so venomous that you're dead before anybody can give you an antidote (assuming there is one).
I've seen mambas on wildlife TV shows, their head seemed to be held 4-5 foot off the ground, very freaky.
QuoteThe black mamba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_mamba) (Dendroaspis polylepis), also called the common black mamba or black-mouthed mamba,[4] is the longest venomous snake in Africa, averaging around 2.5 to 3.2 m (8.2 to 10 ft) in length, and sometimes growing to lengths of 4.45 m (14.6 ft).[5] It is named for the black colour of the inside of the mouth rather than the colour of its scales which varies from dull yellowish-green to a gun-metal grey. It is the fastest snake in the world, capable of moving at 4.32 to 5.4 metres per second (16–20 km/h, 10–12 mph).[6] It has a reputation for being aggressive and highly venomous and is among the world's most venomous land snakes.[7
Quote from: markmcdaniel on June 03, 2012, 07:05:28 AM
I tend to think of this as evolution in action. Average human intelligence has just gone up by a very small fraction of a percentage point. I think that i detect a Darwin Award winner here. In the future it might be nice if they tried to handle some real snakes say Spiting Cobras or one of the Mambas.
The Darwin Awards spring to mind ;D
He took a week to die! Blimey.
A hundred preachers have died doing this, including his own father. And still they go on. This really does tell us something about the total irrationality of faith.
Quote from: OldGit on June 03, 2012, 08:49:51 AM
This really does tell us something about the total irrationality of faith.
Yeah, which goes something like:
I'm going to handle a venomous snake whose bite can kill me. It's an animal with an independent mind, which means that it's under control because god controls it and god is on my side...I pray.
Or it could simply be something more like:
I like an audience and I like to show that I can dominate dangerous animals. Even though I know that this snake can kill me, I'm also in absolute denial that it will. Not me. ::)
Quote from: OldGit on June 03, 2012, 08:49:51 AM
He took a week to die! Blimey.
A hundred preachers have died doing this, including his own father. And still they go on. This really does tell us something about the total irrationality of faith.
What you said. Congregants will chock it up to "He didn't have enough faith"..."His faith slipped"..."It was his time to go". None of them will learn anything by this idiots death. They of course will see him in Heaven, so what's to worry about?
I read about this on another site and it said he was well aware of the dangers involved. He didn't believe his god would literally protect him from the snake. he was just using it as a tool to teach people.
Quote from: Genericguy on June 03, 2012, 06:10:07 PM
I read about this on another site and it said he was well aware of the dangers involved. He didn't believe his god would literally protect him from the snake. he was just using it as a tool to teach people.
I am not quite sure what lesson he was trying to teach. It cannot be that it is stupid to handle venomous reptiles. Mind you he did a spectacular job of teaching this particular lesson. Particularly the part about how getting bite by venomous snakes can ruin your whole day.
I love snakes. I think they're awesome creatures. I have a healthy respect and fear of any venomous ones, though. I feel bad for his family and community. I'm sure his wife is grieving, and so is his mother. But the others who have commented here are correct: this is a prime example of how to win a Darwin award. Problem is, I don't know if he had kids or not; if he did, then his own removal from the 'gene pool' might very well be repeated. ::) Not to sound cold or cruel, but I look at people like this and go 'oh well, they died because of doing something they loved doing!' And I'd say that for people who skydive, do motorcycle stunts or other dangerous tricks - a lot of them die of injuries, too.
To me, it's just absurd that this little group is so bent on interpreting those passages that particular way. Most mainstream Protestants wouldn't. Catholics, Orthodox etc wouldn't. But they choose to, and they believe they're right to such a high extent that they're willing to die if they're wrong because 'it's their time'. That's sad. So much for reason and logic.
My 4 year old knows better than this. Just this morning, we had a very lengthy talk about why we leave snakes, spiders, and bees alone.
I am also confused about what "lesson" the pastor was trying to teach by handling poisonous snakes. But he certainly illustrated the old "You knew I was a snake when you picked me up" parable quite nicely.
Quote from: Ali on June 04, 2012, 04:19:00 PM
I am also confused about what "lesson" the pastor was trying to teach by handling poisonous snakes.
Me too... Me too. I'm sure it worked though, if the goal was to strengthen peoples faith. Until, of course, the part where he got bit and died. I'm sure that hindered his progress a little.
I know some think it's crazy that people like these handle snakes, but sometimes I think to either prove themselves more unique or more dedicated, people will often do crazy things. Some extremist Muslims will blow themselves up. Assemblies of God churches put particular emphasis on the Biblical gift of speaking in tongues. The Bible lists it as the least of all gifts, lower than a gift such as healing. In the Assembly of God church, their attitude is that if you cannot attain the least of all gifts, what kind of Christian are you. I never was able to attain such a gift when I was a member. They also took a very long way around scripture to answer my questions when I asked them about the verses that outlined the rules for speaking in tongues, which proved that none of them were doing anything more than just speaking gibberish while working themselves and each other into a frenzy in their piles of praising, praying people near the preacher's podium. This is just another example, taking a couple verses from Mark and Acts that talk about future events of believers taking up snakes with their hands and not getting hurt, and believing these are actually commandments of Jesus to followers to take up snakes in his name. I think it's just another tragic example of the harm that an overflow of religious fervor can do.
Quote from: Genericguy on June 04, 2012, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Ali on June 04, 2012, 04:19:00 PM
I am also confused about what "lesson" the pastor was trying to teach by handling poisonous snakes.
Me too... Me too. I'm sure it worked though, if the goal was to strengthen peoples faith. Until, of course, the part where he got bit and died. I'm sure that hindered his progress a little.
Yes, it can be more than slightly counter-productive. ::)
What bothers me most about stories like this is that the part about handling snakes and drinking poison cannot be found in the earliest manuscripts of Mark. Most good Bibles will tell you that but people still feel the need to prove their faith in this reckless and dangerous way. I think it must be the tradition.
Quote from: jumbojak on June 28, 2012, 04:42:26 PM
What bothers me most about stories like this is that the part about handling snakes and drinking poison cannot be found in the earliest manuscripts of Mark. Most good Bibles will tell you that but people still feel the need to prove their faith in this reckless and dangerous way. I think it must be the tradition.
Furthermore, even in the later-added section of Mark 16, the statement about snakes is descriptive, not injunctive or imperative, in the Greek. It's just describing a phenomenon - it is not commanding people to handle snakes. These folks read only the King James, which says "shall" pick up serpents, and they interpret it as a commandment, but it's not. For what it's worth.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 03, 2012, 04:01:33 PMI like an audience and I like to show that I can dominate dangerous animals. Even though I know that this snake can kill me, I'm also in absolute denial that it will. Not me. ::)
This sounds exactly like what killed Steve Irwin. (The Crocodile Hunter) He was also stupidly arrogant
Lesson: Dangerous animals will kill you if you screw with them. They're not impressed by God or ratings.
Quote from: Ali on June 04, 2012, 04:19:00 PMI am also confused about what "lesson" the pastor was trying to teach by handling poisonous snakes.
This one...
Mark 16:17 - 18
The Great Commission17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover. "
Quote from: MadBomr101 on June 29, 2012, 01:19:20 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 03, 2012, 04:01:33 PMI like an audience and I like to show that I can dominate dangerous animals. Even though I know that this snake can kill me, I'm also in absolute denial that it will. Not me. ::)
This sounds exactly like what killed Steve Irwin. (The Crocodile Hunter) He was also stupidly arrogant
Lesson: Dangerous animals will kill you if you screw with them. They're not impressed by God or ratings.
That's not nice. I really enjoyed Steve Irwin. He did a lot of work to help the animal community. Including recreational work. I think he did a lot more for the world than this damn snake handling preacher. >_<;;
Quote from: Sweetdeath on June 30, 2012, 03:33:24 AMThat's not nice. I really enjoyed Steve Irwin. He did a lot of work to help the animal community. Including recreational work. I think he did a lot more for the world than this damn snake handling preacher. >_<;;
I agree. I didn't say his heart wasn't in the right place just that he was stupidly arrogant in his approach to handling these creatures. He was frequently atagonistic because that made for good TV. I expected him to get killed eventually. I just thought it would be a croc, or a lion, or something like that. I respect what he stood for but I didn't care for his style.
It was nature's way of thinning out those who don't use their brains. I can't understand why a person who had been bitten before would still do something so illogical as to take a snake to church. If he wants to prove his faith he should have gone out and bungee jumped or skydived, not traumatize a poor snake.
Never mind, at least it's safer than suicide bombing.
Quote from: OldGit on June 30, 2012, 10:50:19 AM
Never mind, at least it's safer than suicide bombing.
At least it is for us. The end result is pretty much the same for them.