Happy Atheist Forum

A few years back I was engaged to a woman that happened to be pregnant. When she gave birth, and my nurturing instinct kicked into double turbo lightening mode, I started thinking about what it is that I would fix about my childhood that I could in turn prevent in the childhood of the little girl I would be entrusted with.

While my fiance and I subsequently separated, I still have a mental list a mile and a half long of things that I plan on doing when I'm a father. It's not just obvious things like don't strike the child or try to wash them every day, but stuff that may not be quite so intuitive.

So, for the sake of parents that are always hungry for unsolicited advice, I want this thread to be a place where our wonderful Happy Atheist Parents can visit and get ideas about how to be the best parents they can be.

I'll get it started:
• Most baby food is horrible, processed garbage, but a lot of new parents can't afford to get the organic, free range, locally grown, infused-with-gold, Whole Foods versions of baby food. What can you do? Make your own!

I'm sure a lot of you know from personal experience that it's ultimately cheaper and healthier to cook for yourself, and that (perhaps unscientific) rule of thumb does seem to translate to infants and toddlers. Aside from natural breast milk, the best baby food, you have myriad options when it comes to creating nutritious, delicious, and inexpensive baby food. After you've consulted with your pediatrician, of course, you can start to experiment with different combinations of safe food which you can puree yourself. Apples, bananas, peaches, pears, plums, prunes, apricots,mangos, papaya, avocado, pumpkin, green beans, carrots, peas, squash, and sweet potatoes are all, if I remember correctly (seriously, talk to your pediatrician), healthy as early as 6-8 months old. They all have important nutrients without preservatives or processed sweeteners and fats. Honestly, if you've got the time, it's the best option.


• Remember trying to fit in when you were in elementary school? Of course you do, everyone does. Even the popular kids have social anxieties when learning about social rules during school, and if they're anything like me, they go to their parents for sage wisdom. My parents, with only the best intentions, always instructed that I should be myself and embrace my individualism. Seems like great advice, right? Wrong. While individualism is an important part of human behavioral and societal development, it's not the end-all be-all of social acceptance, in fact it can often hinder it leading to anxiety and even depression.

If I had a time machine and my 10-year-old self asked me about why he wasn't popular, I'd answer with something like this: you can be yourself and fit in at the same time! You don't just have to be a game-changing rebel, you can be yourself, with all of your likes and dislikes, your developing principles and morality, but you can also follow along with trends and such. Wearing baggy clothing isn't going to erase who you are unless you let it. Frosting your tips won't stop you from being Will. These are all just surface things that you can change with the tides while maintaining and developing into the person you want. When you're young, there are benefits to fitting in to a degree. Once I got my paper route, I found that buying nice clothing helped my self-esteem on a shallow, but still important level. It wasn't about learning that clothing gave me worth, it was about admitting that society isn't made up of mature, objective people. Most people are scared, and a lot of people are pretty immature, especially when you're only 10. In order to stave off undue social anxiety, it's okay to give in to some trends so long as you don't let them make you into a shallow person.


• My first car was a 1993 Ford Tempo coupe. It was a hand-me-down from my dad, had a good 125k miles on it, and didn't have more than a year or two of use left. Not only that, but the car always felt like it was my dad's, even when my name was on the title.

Owning a car is a right of passage, at least in our culture. Especially in high school, earning (or being given) the freedom of transportation is a truly monumental deal. It's the difference between hanging out at the McDonalds around the corner and hanging out at the beach or downtown, places too far to go on foot or bike. Why not turn such an event into a bonding moment?

When, someday, my son or daughter is maybe 14 years old (just around the corner from driving), I'm going to buy a chassis from maybe an old Porsche or BMW and put it in the garage. When asked by my son or daughter about it, I'm going to tell them it's a project car, something we'll build together that, if finished completely by his or her 16th birthday, will become theirs. After I peel my kid off the ceiling, we can start to add parts. As more and more parts come in and, together, we put them on, I'll be teaching my kid valuable information about auto engineering and we'll be bonding over something that truly has meaning. I'll know my kid will never be ripped off by a mechanic and I'll know the history of the vehicle and how safe it is. Hopefully, i can also instill a sense of responsibility that driving requires along the way.

Not only that, but it's awesome to brag to friends about having a project car in the garage.  


Alright, that's enough out of this non-parent. Let's see some advice!

Quote from: "Will"Remember trying to fit in when you were in elementary school?

We all try to do better with our kids and sometimes we overcompensate for the bad parenting methods used on us. My biggest concern as a parent is to promote individuality because, unlike your parents, mine were strict on conformity (that's what tends to happen when your father's in the military). So I want to thank you for pointing out that too much can, in some cases, be a bad thing. Thus far my philosophy has been this:

The vast majority of parents are, to my own amazement, surprised when Jr. grows up to cave into peer pressure when throughout their entire life they have taught them to do nothing but conform. Children/teens rarely rebel. They merely switch sides to which they conform. After a while mom and/or dad  are not the gods we see them to be as when we're very young. We're re-prioritize, making "fitting in" with those our own age the most important goal of our life. On that note, I don't actually mean "our". There are many exceptions and I myself became a complete loner in my high school years after I gave up on ever wanting to fit in. I was much happier and because this happiness didn't depend on others, I still feel I matured earlier than most. But my point is the odds are that if I teach my kid to think for himself and be himself, questioning even me and his mother early on, he'll be well prepared for adolescent years; having an advantage hardly anyone will have. He's on the elementary level now, so the most we've had to deal with thus far is having to buy him something "everyone else has."

It seems, then, like the key is in finding a balance between fitting in and being an individual. Or dominating the social hierarchy and setting the trends yourself, which I think could be ideal so long as the individual realized the responsibility.

My advice to my daughter is just to love what you love and don't appologize for it.  Don't make life about following all of the trends - or rebelling against them.  Either way, you let others dictate how you feel about how you dress, what you listen to, what you do.

I wish my mother had told me that her love was not conditional on my weight.  When I was overweight, she called me Packy Pounds and mocked me for being fat.  When I become anorexically thin, she would try to force feed me.  I couldn't win, either way.  She enjoyed me fat so she could mock me, but then became angry when I was thinner than her.  She did the same thing to my brother.  I've battled body image issues since I was a kid, and only in the last year or so have come to grips with just accepting myself, regardless of size and shape.  I wish my mother had taught me it was okay to do this.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"I wish my mother had told me that her love was not conditional on my weight.  When I was overweight, she called me Packy Pounds and mocked me for being fat.  When I become anorexically thin, she would try to force feed me.  I couldn't win, either way.  She enjoyed me fat so she could mock me, but then became angry when I was thinner than her.  She did the same thing to my brother.  I've battled body image issues since I was a kid, and only in the last year or so have come to grips with just accepting myself, regardless of size and shape.  I wish my mother had taught me it was okay to do this.

:upset:

Things I wished I was taught?  Considering I was raised by fundies, well there is a LOT but these are the ones that took me the longest or were the hardest to sort out.

That it's ok to be different, physically and mentally, than the others.
The difference between love and abuse, had to figure that out on my own.
I didn't have to hide to read the college astronomy and physics texts when I was in 4th grade.  What can I say, I was raised to think smart/educated women were very very bad people.
Reading banned books is not a crime.
Having an over active imagination is fine, maybe even normal.
Drawing dragons does not mean you are possessed.  The church took away all our Mattel toys because I was drawing them at 6 and 7.
ADHD is not a disability.
Sex is not a taboo subject to be avoided at all cost, swept under the rug and ignored.
Sleep disorders are real and not a product of possession, demons, sin, etc.

Wow.  This post brought tears to my eyes, and helped me so clearly understand my own battle with body image.  Thank you for sharing that.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"I wish my mother had told me that her love was not conditional on my weight.  When I was overweight, she called me Packy Pounds and mocked me for being fat.  When I become anorexically thin, she would try to force feed me.  I couldn't win, either way.  She enjoyed me fat so she could mock me, but then became angry when I was thinner than her.  She did the same thing to my brother.  I've battled body image issues since I was a kid, and only in the last year or so have come to grips with just accepting myself, regardless of size and shape.  I wish my mother had taught me it was okay to do this.

I wish I would have been taught that I am allowed to be angry.  

I wish I would have been taught how to care much, much less about what other people think about me.

i wish i was taught that its fine to explore one's sexuality, that its not taboo. oh, the fcukin culture i grew up in.

Quote from: "wildfire_emissary"i wish i was taught that its fine to explore one's sexuality, that its not taboo. oh, the fcukin culture i grew up in.

That's a HUGE difference between my fiancé and I that I find interesting.  Our upbringing was pretty much opposite in all aspects, including the way our parents handled sexuality.  I was raised knowing that sexuality was normal and totally cool - just always always always use multiple kinds of birth control.  My fiancé, whose parents are super religious, was raised to believe that thinking sexual thoughts about a woman was the same as raping her in the eyes of the Lord.  They never talked about birth control.  Ever.  

When he told me that I honestly couldn't believe it.  I appreciate now how progressive my parents were in a lot of ways.

Wish I was taught that... The end of a chapter is not the end of the world.

I wish I had been taught that it's ok to question everything openly, that I didn't need to keep all my doubts and questions to myself. I also wish they had taught me from an early age that, just because they didn't have all the answers, that didn't mean there weren't any; and that when they did have answers, that didn't mean they were right.

- I spent a lot of my childhood wondering why I didn't fit in and why others people seemed to be amazing musicians/actors/athletes whilst I had no real talents I could show for. It's only recently that I discovered my talent for languages (I know far too many!). I seriously wish now that someone had told me that whilst others could do those things now, I WOULD find something that I was good at.

- it's OK to be angry, to shout and hit out. I spent a lot of time just keeping everything pent up inside, and it caused me a lot of pain and grief, whilst others thought it weird I never even really raised my voice.

- That my sexuality is my own personal choice and that it was up to me to discover this. Could be just a generational thing, but I was brought up by my (generally) religious grandparents for the most part, and their somewhat negative attitudes towards gays and gay relationships rubbed off on me, whilst my mom said she didn't care if I were gay or not. I ended up tearing myself apart for most of my teenage years over the whole thing before going to uni and realizing that pretending wasn't going to change anything, and that my bisexuality was actually a positive thing.

- That it's OK to give up on things, or admit defeat or say you don't like something. I did a lot of things when young, only to quit them and have the aggro of my grandparents giving me grief for quitting, even where I had good reason to do so.

- That it's OK to change your mind, or decide on something else based on the evidence. This is the reason most of my family don't know I'm a freethinker and deist (yet). I spent so much of my time, especially at university, in religious events and church things (including playing bass in a worship band), that I don't think they could handle my change to a deist. At least, they'd think I was just jumping religious position every three seconds. At worst my more religious family members could really hurt me, cut me off or harm me in some way.

I've parented so different than the way I was parented it's insane. My husband's family thinks I'm an absolute nut.

No church, into science, home birthing, breastfeeding, no tv (but movies occasionally, we like pixar and dreamworks) child led weaning....we are like aliens.

1.  Don't judge.  Practice acceptance and tolerance.
2.  You are perfectly capable of making your own decisions on what you believe in life.
3.  When you get in high school, you will sit down with me every time I pay bills.  You will see how much money I make at my job, and how much goes to bills, savings, investments, and clothes and food for you and your spoiled little sister.  
4.  (Added) Don't blame your parents for your failings.  You are perfectly capable of failing or succeeding on your own abilities and decisions.

That's the big stuff to me.  I was taught #1 (and didn't always practice it, so can't blame my parents for my failings).  Ooh, a #4... hold on a second.  Okay I'm back.  I was never taught 2 and 3.  I wish more than any of the others that my Dad would have sat down with me on a regular basis to discuss finances and investments.  Dad was brought up that you don't ask how much a man makes or talk about how much you make.  He extended that to his kids.  I had great parents, but had they stressed the importance of finances, I would have a lot more saved for retirement at this point.

Quote from: "fester30"4.  (Added) Don't blame your parents for your failings.  You are perfectly capable of failing or succeeding on your own abilities and decisions.

While you can very well rise and fall on your own, if your parents are to blame for something, why hold the blame back?

God forbid I ever become a parent. That child would be doomed from the start.

But good luck with your daughter Will. I hope you are able to give her a happy, rounded childhood. My parents split up when
I was very young - I don't even remember the divorce. Best thing I can tell you is - don't try and make your kids choose sides whenever you have arguments with your ex, or try and convince them that their mother is crazy and that they should only listen to advice from you. Trust me, when they get older and start to understand more, they will resent you for taking those actions.

Just some friendly advice. Best of luck!